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NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. |
I come for the hot takes on Middle Eastern events, but I stay for the forum-meta shitposting.
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Northern Ireland25159 Posts
On July 20 2025 18:01 Magic Powers wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2025 17:57 Gorsameth wrote:On July 20 2025 16:11 Magic Powers wrote:On July 20 2025 08:35 Sermokala wrote:On July 20 2025 06:30 Magic Powers wrote:On July 20 2025 04:45 Sermokala wrote:
MP you're the one who invented Kwark calling them rabbits out of thin air. You're the one who chose to call them animals instead of human beings. The idea that you can invent what someone else said and then give them responsibility for that is silly. I invented nothing. His comment is racist, and I don't care how much you defend him. I didn't call them animals, you made that up. If you don't know the phrase, that's your problem. Your defense of KwarK's racist comment speaks pretty loudly, too. You called them rabbits MP, you can't "its just a phrase" away the choice of words you made. Trying to gaslight people and refusing to acknowledge your mistake would work a lot better if it wasn't through text. Constantly trying to make Kwarks comment racist doesn't make it racist. People in an open air mixed sex prison with nothing to do reproduce a lot. Thats got nothing to do with their race it would happen with any group of mixed sex people with nothing to do with their time and can't go anywhere. On July 20 2025 06:40 Uldridge wrote:
What happens when the Ouroboros gets to its own head? It doesn't, It would be a form of mercy for the torture the ouroboros is in for it to end. Part of the horror of the ouroboros is the inherent, inescapable torment that it finds itself in. The consumption of itself fuels its growth, causing more consumption to occur. Its a greater philosophical statement on the cycles that humanity could break to better itself and the deceptivly simple answers to them. "Just stop eating your own tail" to a beast that Is cursed to eat itself constantly. Sermokola, you're embarrassing yourself. My words are the interpretation of KwarK's words. He said they reproduce like rabbits, not me. This is also not the first time KwarK has been openly racist. He's also openly in favor of mass deportation of illegal non-citizens in the US. On June 10 2025 07:59 KwarK wrote:On June 10 2025 07:56 WombaT wrote:I have a bad history with polls, they usually actively disprove my intuition, but hey nout wrong with data. Also for this hypothetical poll, we’re assuming some relatively benign detection and enforcement mechanisms Poll: Should non-criminal illegal migrants face deportation?Yes (18) 67% No (9) 33% 27 total votes Your vote: Should non-criminal illegal migrants face deportation? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
Yes, they should be deported. But they should be deported humanely, lawfully, to their home countries, and subject to appeal. So if the person is a citizen then they get a chance to tell that to a judge, even if ICE have them mixed up with a non citizen. A process whereby someone the state identifies as a non citizen is seized in secret and sent to a foreign prison in secret without the knowledge of their family and without access to any legal recourse is just disappearing people. We have rules that govern the state monopoly on violence, there are legal limits to what they can do. If the police arrest you then you have to go with them and plead your innocence to a court. If secret police try to disappear you then they’re acting outside of the scope of the social contract and you don’t have to do shit. The foreign prison part is bananas because of their insistence on a loophole that the foreign part exempts it from the judicial system because foreign = executive. Indefinite imprisonment without trial is not the same thing as border control. https://tl.net/forum/general/532255-us-politics-mega-thread?page=5010#100188 Yeah no you lost the plot buddy. Advocating for humane lawful deportations subject to appeal is racist now? It is hella racist unless you've literally never properly thought about all the implications. Plus there's the fact that mass deportation is literally impossible unless it is done in a racist fashion. KwarK is basically either talking about a fairy tale, or he's being racist. Whichever one it is, you can choose. Either he lives in an alternate reality, or he's a racist in this reality. I don't care which one you prefer, either way he's not someone to be taken seriously no matter what he says. His argumentation is generally really really bad, because he puts no effort into researching anything before or after forming his views.
He was responding to a pure hypothetical which, almost definitionally is a fairy tale.
In the same sense I’m pro death penalty in the abstract scenario where no mistakes are ever made, but against it in reality because well, mistakes are made
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United States42640 Posts
What on earth is happening in here?
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On July 20 2025 23:10 KwarK wrote:
What on earth is happening in here?
We got sidetracked because continually posting about the ongoing daily atrocities of the IDF obviously wasn't generating much discussion.
Its probably your fault.
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United States42640 Posts
Everyone is angry and nothing ever gets better. The topic has become Palestine. How meta.
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On July 20 2025 18:43 BlackJack wrote:
In all seriousness, I've always thought the "you're a racist/misogynist/transphobe/xenophobe" arguments were something liberals threw at conservatives. But now that I've stumbled upon multiple people on the left arguing with each other and the conversation is "you're racist" "nuh-uh, you're the racist" "no, you're the racist!" I'm realizing it's just a fault of their kind.
Racism is not exclusive to the right, and KwarK is neither noticably left-wing nor right-wing. He just says outrageous things because he never thinks anything through and also never researches anything. He just wants to dunk on people. That's basically his entire purpose on tl.net. If you're confused as to why the forum culture has devolved so much, his behavior is among the leading causes.
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On July 20 2025 23:01 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2025 18:01 Magic Powers wrote:On July 20 2025 17:57 Gorsameth wrote:On July 20 2025 16:11 Magic Powers wrote:On July 20 2025 08:35 Sermokala wrote:On July 20 2025 06:30 Magic Powers wrote:On July 20 2025 04:45 Sermokala wrote:
MP you're the one who invented Kwark calling them rabbits out of thin air. You're the one who chose to call them animals instead of human beings. The idea that you can invent what someone else said and then give them responsibility for that is silly. I invented nothing. His comment is racist, and I don't care how much you defend him. I didn't call them animals, you made that up. If you don't know the phrase, that's your problem. Your defense of KwarK's racist comment speaks pretty loudly, too. You called them rabbits MP, you can't "its just a phrase" away the choice of words you made. Trying to gaslight people and refusing to acknowledge your mistake would work a lot better if it wasn't through text. Constantly trying to make Kwarks comment racist doesn't make it racist. People in an open air mixed sex prison with nothing to do reproduce a lot. Thats got nothing to do with their race it would happen with any group of mixed sex people with nothing to do with their time and can't go anywhere. On July 20 2025 06:40 Uldridge wrote:
What happens when the Ouroboros gets to its own head? It doesn't, It would be a form of mercy for the torture the ouroboros is in for it to end. Part of the horror of the ouroboros is the inherent, inescapable torment that it finds itself in. The consumption of itself fuels its growth, causing more consumption to occur. Its a greater philosophical statement on the cycles that humanity could break to better itself and the deceptivly simple answers to them. "Just stop eating your own tail" to a beast that Is cursed to eat itself constantly. Sermokola, you're embarrassing yourself. My words are the interpretation of KwarK's words. He said they reproduce like rabbits, not me. This is also not the first time KwarK has been openly racist. He's also openly in favor of mass deportation of illegal non-citizens in the US. On June 10 2025 07:59 KwarK wrote:On June 10 2025 07:56 WombaT wrote:I have a bad history with polls, they usually actively disprove my intuition, but hey nout wrong with data. Also for this hypothetical poll, we’re assuming some relatively benign detection and enforcement mechanisms Poll: Should non-criminal illegal migrants face deportation?Yes (18) 67% No (9) 33% 27 total votes Your vote: Should non-criminal illegal migrants face deportation? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
Yes, they should be deported. But they should be deported humanely, lawfully, to their home countries, and subject to appeal. So if the person is a citizen then they get a chance to tell that to a judge, even if ICE have them mixed up with a non citizen. A process whereby someone the state identifies as a non citizen is seized in secret and sent to a foreign prison in secret without the knowledge of their family and without access to any legal recourse is just disappearing people. We have rules that govern the state monopoly on violence, there are legal limits to what they can do. If the police arrest you then you have to go with them and plead your innocence to a court. If secret police try to disappear you then they’re acting outside of the scope of the social contract and you don’t have to do shit. The foreign prison part is bananas because of their insistence on a loophole that the foreign part exempts it from the judicial system because foreign = executive. Indefinite imprisonment without trial is not the same thing as border control. https://tl.net/forum/general/532255-us-politics-mega-thread?page=5010#100188 Yeah no you lost the plot buddy. Advocating for humane lawful deportations subject to appeal is racist now? It is hella racist unless you've literally never properly thought about all the implications. Plus there's the fact that mass deportation is literally impossible unless it is done in a racist fashion. KwarK is basically either talking about a fairy tale, or he's being racist. Whichever one it is, you can choose. Either he lives in an alternate reality, or he's a racist in this reality. I don't care which one you prefer, either way he's not someone to be taken seriously no matter what he says. His argumentation is generally really really bad, because he puts no effort into researching anything before or after forming his views. He was responding to a pure hypothetical which, almost definitionally is a fairy tale. In the same sense I’m pro death penalty in the abstract scenario where no mistakes are ever made, but against it in reality because well, mistakes are made
When KwarK argued in favor of mass deportation, he did so after a poll which asked about that specifically. He voluntarily outed himself as being in favor, nobody asked him. He just thought it's the right position to have. Unsurprisingly, since it's the majority opinion. Apparently not just right-wingers support it, but it's also either popular or mixed further towards the political center.
And this is why I suspect KwarK hasn't previously faced pushback against his racist views: because such views are demonstrably quite popular around here.
The conclusion isn't that KwarK has no racist views, the conclusion is that he and many other people have racist views, and they just don't realize it.
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On July 20 2025 22:42 Sadist wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2025 18:01 Magic Powers wrote:On July 20 2025 17:57 Gorsameth wrote:On July 20 2025 16:11 Magic Powers wrote:On July 20 2025 08:35 Sermokala wrote:On July 20 2025 06:30 Magic Powers wrote:On July 20 2025 04:45 Sermokala wrote:
MP you're the one who invented Kwark calling them rabbits out of thin air. You're the one who chose to call them animals instead of human beings. The idea that you can invent what someone else said and then give them responsibility for that is silly. I invented nothing. His comment is racist, and I don't care how much you defend him. I didn't call them animals, you made that up. If you don't know the phrase, that's your problem. Your defense of KwarK's racist comment speaks pretty loudly, too. You called them rabbits MP, you can't "its just a phrase" away the choice of words you made. Trying to gaslight people and refusing to acknowledge your mistake would work a lot better if it wasn't through text. Constantly trying to make Kwarks comment racist doesn't make it racist. People in an open air mixed sex prison with nothing to do reproduce a lot. Thats got nothing to do with their race it would happen with any group of mixed sex people with nothing to do with their time and can't go anywhere. On July 20 2025 06:40 Uldridge wrote:
What happens when the Ouroboros gets to its own head? It doesn't, It would be a form of mercy for the torture the ouroboros is in for it to end. Part of the horror of the ouroboros is the inherent, inescapable torment that it finds itself in. The consumption of itself fuels its growth, causing more consumption to occur. Its a greater philosophical statement on the cycles that humanity could break to better itself and the deceptivly simple answers to them. "Just stop eating your own tail" to a beast that Is cursed to eat itself constantly. Sermokola, you're embarrassing yourself. My words are the interpretation of KwarK's words. He said they reproduce like rabbits, not me. This is also not the first time KwarK has been openly racist. He's also openly in favor of mass deportation of illegal non-citizens in the US. On June 10 2025 07:59 KwarK wrote:On June 10 2025 07:56 WombaT wrote:I have a bad history with polls, they usually actively disprove my intuition, but hey nout wrong with data. Also for this hypothetical poll, we’re assuming some relatively benign detection and enforcement mechanisms Poll: Should non-criminal illegal migrants face deportation?Yes (18) 67% No (9) 33% 27 total votes Your vote: Should non-criminal illegal migrants face deportation? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
Yes, they should be deported. But they should be deported humanely, lawfully, to their home countries, and subject to appeal. So if the person is a citizen then they get a chance to tell that to a judge, even if ICE have them mixed up with a non citizen. A process whereby someone the state identifies as a non citizen is seized in secret and sent to a foreign prison in secret without the knowledge of their family and without access to any legal recourse is just disappearing people. We have rules that govern the state monopoly on violence, there are legal limits to what they can do. If the police arrest you then you have to go with them and plead your innocence to a court. If secret police try to disappear you then they’re acting outside of the scope of the social contract and you don’t have to do shit. The foreign prison part is bananas because of their insistence on a loophole that the foreign part exempts it from the judicial system because foreign = executive. Indefinite imprisonment without trial is not the same thing as border control. https://tl.net/forum/general/532255-us-politics-mega-thread?page=5010#100188 Yeah no you lost the plot buddy. Advocating for humane lawful deportations subject to appeal is racist now? It is hella racist unless you've literally never properly thought about all the implications. Plus there's the fact that mass deportation is literally impossible unless it is done in a racist fashion. KwarK is basically either talking about a fairy tale, or he's being racist. Whichever one it is, you can choose. Either he lives in an alternate reality, or he's a racist in this reality. I don't care which one you prefer, either way he's not someone to be taken seriously no matter what he says. His argumentation is generally really really bad, because he puts no effort into researching anything before or after forming his views. What is your suggestion? Not to enforce immigration laws at all? I as a US citizen cannot just travel to any county I choose and stay there indefinately and work. Hell just going to Canada for a business meeting can be a huge pain in the ass. Kwark said to use courts, due process, etc and do it humanely. Theres nothing racist about that.
My suggestion is that we treat people like people and not like pawns. That requires empathy. With empathy we have fairly little reason to deport millions of people. But empathy isn't the only way to come to that conclusion, we can also use utility based argumentation. Illegal non-citizens are broadly speaking a net plus to society, such as in the US. More importantly, deporting them is a massive net minus. Even if people were to argue that these people are a net minus overall (which is wrong, but lets assume for a minute that it's actually a valid argument), then deportation would make the situation even worse. A lot worse. And not just for people being deported and for their families, but also for legal citizens who are not directly affected. The indirect harm to the economy that deportation of illegal non-citizens results in leads to a net cost to the nation. Instead their presence can be turned into an economic net boost for all people. The easier the host country makes it for illegal migrants to stay, the greater of a profit they can turn for themselves and for the host country.
In every single way, mass deportation is dumb, self-harming, and on top of it also fairly psychopathic. And yes, also racist.
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Its not racist to want to have some type of immigration requirements or enforcement for your country. Every country on earth has that. Its part of being a country.
Of course the devil is in the details, the enforcement could be racist if its being done in a racist way (chinese exclusion act?)
People can overstay Visas and be here illegally from everywhere, not just Mexico or central America....
Also i dont think Kwark advocated for mass deportation, basically just that immigration laws be enforced humanely.
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On July 20 2025 23:45 Magic Powers wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2025 22:42 Sadist wrote:On July 20 2025 18:01 Magic Powers wrote:On July 20 2025 17:57 Gorsameth wrote:On July 20 2025 16:11 Magic Powers wrote:On July 20 2025 08:35 Sermokala wrote:On July 20 2025 06:30 Magic Powers wrote:On July 20 2025 04:45 Sermokala wrote:
MP you're the one who invented Kwark calling them rabbits out of thin air. You're the one who chose to call them animals instead of human beings. The idea that you can invent what someone else said and then give them responsibility for that is silly. I invented nothing. His comment is racist, and I don't care how much you defend him. I didn't call them animals, you made that up. If you don't know the phrase, that's your problem. Your defense of KwarK's racist comment speaks pretty loudly, too. You called them rabbits MP, you can't "its just a phrase" away the choice of words you made. Trying to gaslight people and refusing to acknowledge your mistake would work a lot better if it wasn't through text. Constantly trying to make Kwarks comment racist doesn't make it racist. People in an open air mixed sex prison with nothing to do reproduce a lot. Thats got nothing to do with their race it would happen with any group of mixed sex people with nothing to do with their time and can't go anywhere. On July 20 2025 06:40 Uldridge wrote:
What happens when the Ouroboros gets to its own head? It doesn't, It would be a form of mercy for the torture the ouroboros is in for it to end. Part of the horror of the ouroboros is the inherent, inescapable torment that it finds itself in. The consumption of itself fuels its growth, causing more consumption to occur. Its a greater philosophical statement on the cycles that humanity could break to better itself and the deceptivly simple answers to them. "Just stop eating your own tail" to a beast that Is cursed to eat itself constantly. Sermokola, you're embarrassing yourself. My words are the interpretation of KwarK's words. He said they reproduce like rabbits, not me. This is also not the first time KwarK has been openly racist. He's also openly in favor of mass deportation of illegal non-citizens in the US. On June 10 2025 07:59 KwarK wrote:On June 10 2025 07:56 WombaT wrote:I have a bad history with polls, they usually actively disprove my intuition, but hey nout wrong with data. Also for this hypothetical poll, we’re assuming some relatively benign detection and enforcement mechanisms Poll: Should non-criminal illegal migrants face deportation?Yes (18) 67% No (9) 33% 27 total votes Your vote: Should non-criminal illegal migrants face deportation? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
Yes, they should be deported. But they should be deported humanely, lawfully, to their home countries, and subject to appeal. So if the person is a citizen then they get a chance to tell that to a judge, even if ICE have them mixed up with a non citizen. A process whereby someone the state identifies as a non citizen is seized in secret and sent to a foreign prison in secret without the knowledge of their family and without access to any legal recourse is just disappearing people. We have rules that govern the state monopoly on violence, there are legal limits to what they can do. If the police arrest you then you have to go with them and plead your innocence to a court. If secret police try to disappear you then they’re acting outside of the scope of the social contract and you don’t have to do shit. The foreign prison part is bananas because of their insistence on a loophole that the foreign part exempts it from the judicial system because foreign = executive. Indefinite imprisonment without trial is not the same thing as border control. https://tl.net/forum/general/532255-us-politics-mega-thread?page=5010#100188 Yeah no you lost the plot buddy. Advocating for humane lawful deportations subject to appeal is racist now? It is hella racist unless you've literally never properly thought about all the implications. Plus there's the fact that mass deportation is literally impossible unless it is done in a racist fashion. KwarK is basically either talking about a fairy tale, or he's being racist. Whichever one it is, you can choose. Either he lives in an alternate reality, or he's a racist in this reality. I don't care which one you prefer, either way he's not someone to be taken seriously no matter what he says. His argumentation is generally really really bad, because he puts no effort into researching anything before or after forming his views. What is your suggestion? Not to enforce immigration laws at all? I as a US citizen cannot just travel to any county I choose and stay there indefinately and work. Hell just going to Canada for a business meeting can be a huge pain in the ass. Kwark said to use courts, due process, etc and do it humanely. Theres nothing racist about that. My suggestion is that we treat people like people and not like pawns. That requires empathy. With empathy we have fairly little reason to deport millions of people. But empathy isn't the only way to come to that conclusion, we can also use utility based argumentation. Illegal non-citizens are broadly speaking a net plus to society, such as in the US. More importantly, deporting them is a massive net minus. Even if people were to argue that these people are a net minus overall (which is wrong, but lets assume for a minute that it's actually a valid argument), then deportation would make the situation even worse. A lot worse. And not just for people being deported and for their families, but also for legal citizens who are not directly affected. The indirect harm to the economy that deportation of illegal non-citizens results in leads to a net cost to the nation. Instead their presence can be turned into an economic net boost for all people. The easier the host country makes it for illegal migrants to stay, the greater of a profit they can turn for themselves and for the host country. In every single way, mass deportation is dumb, self-harming, and on top of it also fairly psychopathic. And yes, also racist.
Can you be more specific on what treating people with empathy and not like pawns means in terms of immigration enforcement? Do you not think there should be work visas? Green cards or their equivalent in Israel or other countries? Customs and security when you enter a country?
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United States42640 Posts
I’m pretty sure I also said that if it is determined that the US requires a foreign labour force to operate then that decision should be made by Congress and the labourers should have legal status with all the protections that go with it. That I’m fine with the economic arguments for it but if we accept those then it should be legal. That way the workers aren’t at the mercy of shady employers who exploit them and threaten to call ICE on them and so there isn’t an unofficial immigration policy administered by coyotes and cartels.
We can’t have two sets of policies, the official laws administered by the state but not enforced and the reality administered by criminal gangs. It hurts everyone involved including the migrants.
One policy, one set of rules, legislated by the legislature, administered by the state, enforced humanely.
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MP, you have lately lost all nuance in your views and your argumentation. You gained however all the self righteousness of someone who is never wrong. Basically what you are accusing kwark of. Also you are wrong. Mass deportations in a vacuum are not racist. Implementations, reasoning and motivations are what usually are racist. Just think of a country who's economy is not dependent on getting additional workers for jobs the people in that country don't want to do. then those additional workers can and will be a net burden on the society. Just because that is not the case in the us or middle Europe dies not mean it dies not exist. Ask how many syrians turkey was able to absorb before being absolutely overwhelmed economically.
Stop posting so bad because you really really want to win the argument against specific posters, seriously.
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On July 20 2025 23:56 Sadist wrote:
Its not racist to want to have some type of immigration requirements or enforcement for your country. Every country on earth has that. Its part of being a country.
Of course the devil is in the details, the enforcement could be racist if its being done in a racist way (chinese exclusion act?)
People can overstay Visas and be here illegally from everywhere, not just Mexico or central America....
Also i dont think Kwark advocated for mass deportation, basically just that immigration laws be enforced humanely.
Enforcing it requires mass deportation. Mass deportation cannot be conducted humanely. It's either a pipe dream or incredibly racist. There is no third option.
On July 21 2025 00:04 Sadist wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2025 23:45 Magic Powers wrote:On July 20 2025 22:42 Sadist wrote:On July 20 2025 18:01 Magic Powers wrote:On July 20 2025 17:57 Gorsameth wrote:On July 20 2025 16:11 Magic Powers wrote:On July 20 2025 08:35 Sermokala wrote:On July 20 2025 06:30 Magic Powers wrote:On July 20 2025 04:45 Sermokala wrote:
MP you're the one who invented Kwark calling them rabbits out of thin air. You're the one who chose to call them animals instead of human beings. The idea that you can invent what someone else said and then give them responsibility for that is silly. I invented nothing. His comment is racist, and I don't care how much you defend him. I didn't call them animals, you made that up. If you don't know the phrase, that's your problem. Your defense of KwarK's racist comment speaks pretty loudly, too. You called them rabbits MP, you can't "its just a phrase" away the choice of words you made. Trying to gaslight people and refusing to acknowledge your mistake would work a lot better if it wasn't through text. Constantly trying to make Kwarks comment racist doesn't make it racist. People in an open air mixed sex prison with nothing to do reproduce a lot. Thats got nothing to do with their race it would happen with any group of mixed sex people with nothing to do with their time and can't go anywhere. On July 20 2025 06:40 Uldridge wrote:
What happens when the Ouroboros gets to its own head? It doesn't, It would be a form of mercy for the torture the ouroboros is in for it to end. Part of the horror of the ouroboros is the inherent, inescapable torment that it finds itself in. The consumption of itself fuels its growth, causing more consumption to occur. Its a greater philosophical statement on the cycles that humanity could break to better itself and the deceptivly simple answers to them. "Just stop eating your own tail" to a beast that Is cursed to eat itself constantly. Sermokola, you're embarrassing yourself. My words are the interpretation of KwarK's words. He said they reproduce like rabbits, not me. This is also not the first time KwarK has been openly racist. He's also openly in favor of mass deportation of illegal non-citizens in the US. On June 10 2025 07:59 KwarK wrote:On June 10 2025 07:56 WombaT wrote:I have a bad history with polls, they usually actively disprove my intuition, but hey nout wrong with data. Also for this hypothetical poll, we’re assuming some relatively benign detection and enforcement mechanisms Poll: Should non-criminal illegal migrants face deportation?Yes (18) 67% No (9) 33% 27 total votes Your vote: Should non-criminal illegal migrants face deportation? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
Yes, they should be deported. But they should be deported humanely, lawfully, to their home countries, and subject to appeal. So if the person is a citizen then they get a chance to tell that to a judge, even if ICE have them mixed up with a non citizen. A process whereby someone the state identifies as a non citizen is seized in secret and sent to a foreign prison in secret without the knowledge of their family and without access to any legal recourse is just disappearing people. We have rules that govern the state monopoly on violence, there are legal limits to what they can do. If the police arrest you then you have to go with them and plead your innocence to a court. If secret police try to disappear you then they’re acting outside of the scope of the social contract and you don’t have to do shit. The foreign prison part is bananas because of their insistence on a loophole that the foreign part exempts it from the judicial system because foreign = executive. Indefinite imprisonment without trial is not the same thing as border control. https://tl.net/forum/general/532255-us-politics-mega-thread?page=5010#100188 Yeah no you lost the plot buddy. Advocating for humane lawful deportations subject to appeal is racist now? It is hella racist unless you've literally never properly thought about all the implications. Plus there's the fact that mass deportation is literally impossible unless it is done in a racist fashion. KwarK is basically either talking about a fairy tale, or he's being racist. Whichever one it is, you can choose. Either he lives in an alternate reality, or he's a racist in this reality. I don't care which one you prefer, either way he's not someone to be taken seriously no matter what he says. His argumentation is generally really really bad, because he puts no effort into researching anything before or after forming his views. What is your suggestion? Not to enforce immigration laws at all? I as a US citizen cannot just travel to any county I choose and stay there indefinately and work. Hell just going to Canada for a business meeting can be a huge pain in the ass. Kwark said to use courts, due process, etc and do it humanely. Theres nothing racist about that. My suggestion is that we treat people like people and not like pawns. That requires empathy. With empathy we have fairly little reason to deport millions of people. But empathy isn't the only way to come to that conclusion, we can also use utility based argumentation. Illegal non-citizens are broadly speaking a net plus to society, such as in the US. More importantly, deporting them is a massive net minus. Even if people were to argue that these people are a net minus overall (which is wrong, but lets assume for a minute that it's actually a valid argument), then deportation would make the situation even worse. A lot worse. And not just for people being deported and for their families, but also for legal citizens who are not directly affected. The indirect harm to the economy that deportation of illegal non-citizens results in leads to a net cost to the nation. Instead their presence can be turned into an economic net boost for all people. The easier the host country makes it for illegal migrants to stay, the greater of a profit they can turn for themselves and for the host country. In every single way, mass deportation is dumb, self-harming, and on top of it also fairly psychopathic. And yes, also racist. Can you be more specific on what treating people with empathy and not like pawns means in terms of immigration enforcement? Do you not think there should be work visas? Green cards or their equivalent in Israel or other countries? Customs and security when you enter a country?
More paths towards citizenship/extended visas. No deportation in cases other than felony or repeated criminal activity. No deportation in cases of domestic violence in the country of origin and other such issues. I think that covers most of it.
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On July 21 2025 00:13 Broetchenholer wrote:
Mass deportations in a vacuum are not racist. Implementations, reasoning and motivations are what usually are racist. Just think of a country who's economy is not dependent on getting additional workers for jobs the people in that country don't want to do. then those additional workers can and will be a net burden on the society. .
It depends what you mean by racist, I suppose.
Obviously mass deportations are inherently discriminatory. That is the entire point of them.
They aren't necessarily motivated by hate, but they provide breeding ground for hatred to grow and be acted upon.
I'm not up on what people would or wouldn't call racist when it comes to this stuff tbh.
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United States42640 Posts
Refusing to deport without a full amnesty is just the establishment of a permanent subclass labour population. And you’d like them to work on farms too. How very Teutonic.
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On July 21 2025 00:14 Magic Powers wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2025 23:56 Sadist wrote:
Its not racist to want to have some type of immigration requirements or enforcement for your country. Every country on earth has that. Its part of being a country.
Of course the devil is in the details, the enforcement could be racist if its being done in a racist way (chinese exclusion act?)
People can overstay Visas and be here illegally from everywhere, not just Mexico or central America....
Also i dont think Kwark advocated for mass deportation, basically just that immigration laws be enforced humanely. Enforcing it requires mass deportation. Mass deportation cannot be conducted humanely. It's either a pipe dream or incredibly racist. There is no third option. Show nested quote +On July 21 2025 00:04 Sadist wrote:On July 20 2025 23:45 Magic Powers wrote:On July 20 2025 22:42 Sadist wrote:On July 20 2025 18:01 Magic Powers wrote:On July 20 2025 17:57 Gorsameth wrote:On July 20 2025 16:11 Magic Powers wrote:On July 20 2025 08:35 Sermokala wrote:On July 20 2025 06:30 Magic Powers wrote:On July 20 2025 04:45 Sermokala wrote:
MP you're the one who invented Kwark calling them rabbits out of thin air. You're the one who chose to call them animals instead of human beings. The idea that you can invent what someone else said and then give them responsibility for that is silly. I invented nothing. His comment is racist, and I don't care how much you defend him. I didn't call them animals, you made that up. If you don't know the phrase, that's your problem. Your defense of KwarK's racist comment speaks pretty loudly, too. You called them rabbits MP, you can't "its just a phrase" away the choice of words you made. Trying to gaslight people and refusing to acknowledge your mistake would work a lot better if it wasn't through text. Constantly trying to make Kwarks comment racist doesn't make it racist. People in an open air mixed sex prison with nothing to do reproduce a lot. Thats got nothing to do with their race it would happen with any group of mixed sex people with nothing to do with their time and can't go anywhere. On July 20 2025 06:40 Uldridge wrote:
What happens when the Ouroboros gets to its own head? It doesn't, It would be a form of mercy for the torture the ouroboros is in for it to end. Part of the horror of the ouroboros is the inherent, inescapable torment that it finds itself in. The consumption of itself fuels its growth, causing more consumption to occur. Its a greater philosophical statement on the cycles that humanity could break to better itself and the deceptivly simple answers to them. "Just stop eating your own tail" to a beast that Is cursed to eat itself constantly. Sermokola, you're embarrassing yourself. My words are the interpretation of KwarK's words. He said they reproduce like rabbits, not me. This is also not the first time KwarK has been openly racist. He's also openly in favor of mass deportation of illegal non-citizens in the US. On June 10 2025 07:59 KwarK wrote:On June 10 2025 07:56 WombaT wrote:I have a bad history with polls, they usually actively disprove my intuition, but hey nout wrong with data. Also for this hypothetical poll, we’re assuming some relatively benign detection and enforcement mechanisms Poll: Should non-criminal illegal migrants face deportation?Yes (18) 67% No (9) 33% 27 total votes Your vote: Should non-criminal illegal migrants face deportation? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
Yes, they should be deported. But they should be deported humanely, lawfully, to their home countries, and subject to appeal. So if the person is a citizen then they get a chance to tell that to a judge, even if ICE have them mixed up with a non citizen. A process whereby someone the state identifies as a non citizen is seized in secret and sent to a foreign prison in secret without the knowledge of their family and without access to any legal recourse is just disappearing people. We have rules that govern the state monopoly on violence, there are legal limits to what they can do. If the police arrest you then you have to go with them and plead your innocence to a court. If secret police try to disappear you then they’re acting outside of the scope of the social contract and you don’t have to do shit. The foreign prison part is bananas because of their insistence on a loophole that the foreign part exempts it from the judicial system because foreign = executive. Indefinite imprisonment without trial is not the same thing as border control. https://tl.net/forum/general/532255-us-politics-mega-thread?page=5010#100188 Yeah no you lost the plot buddy. Advocating for humane lawful deportations subject to appeal is racist now? It is hella racist unless you've literally never properly thought about all the implications. Plus there's the fact that mass deportation is literally impossible unless it is done in a racist fashion. KwarK is basically either talking about a fairy tale, or he's being racist. Whichever one it is, you can choose. Either he lives in an alternate reality, or he's a racist in this reality. I don't care which one you prefer, either way he's not someone to be taken seriously no matter what he says. His argumentation is generally really really bad, because he puts no effort into researching anything before or after forming his views. What is your suggestion? Not to enforce immigration laws at all? I as a US citizen cannot just travel to any county I choose and stay there indefinately and work. Hell just going to Canada for a business meeting can be a huge pain in the ass. Kwark said to use courts, due process, etc and do it humanely. Theres nothing racist about that. My suggestion is that we treat people like people and not like pawns. That requires empathy. With empathy we have fairly little reason to deport millions of people. But empathy isn't the only way to come to that conclusion, we can also use utility based argumentation. Illegal non-citizens are broadly speaking a net plus to society, such as in the US. More importantly, deporting them is a massive net minus. Even if people were to argue that these people are a net minus overall (which is wrong, but lets assume for a minute that it's actually a valid argument), then deportation would make the situation even worse. A lot worse. And not just for people being deported and for their families, but also for legal citizens who are not directly affected. The indirect harm to the economy that deportation of illegal non-citizens results in leads to a net cost to the nation. Instead their presence can be turned into an economic net boost for all people. The easier the host country makes it for illegal migrants to stay, the greater of a profit they can turn for themselves and for the host country. In every single way, mass deportation is dumb, self-harming, and on top of it also fairly psychopathic. And yes, also racist. Can you be more specific on what treating people with empathy and not like pawns means in terms of immigration enforcement? Do you not think there should be work visas? Green cards or their equivalent in Israel or other countries? Customs and security when you enter a country? More paths towards citizenship/extended visas. No deportation in cases other than felony or repeated criminal activity. No deportation in cases of domestic violence in the country of origin and other such issues. I think that covers most of it.
Im pretty sure kwark advocated for similar things to what you are asking for. Courts, doing it humanely, etc.
It would need to be handled on a case by case basis.
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On July 21 2025 00:13 Broetchenholer wrote:
MP, you have lately lost all nuance in your views and your argumentation. You gained however all the self righteousness of someone who is never wrong. Basically what you are accusing kwark of. Also you are wrong. Mass deportations in a vacuum are not racist. Implementations, reasoning and motivations are what usually are racist. Just think of a country who's economy is not dependent on getting additional workers for jobs the people in that country don't want to do. then those additional workers can and will be a net burden on the society. Just because that is not the case in the us or middle Europe dies not mean it dies not exist. Ask how many syrians turkey was able to absorb before being absolutely overwhelmed economically.
Stop posting so bad because you really really want to win the argument against specific posters, seriously.
Incorrect. KwarK started bullying me years ago for absolutely no reason whatsoever and he's never stopped doing so. All of his responses to me are instigation. He doesn't respond to me in good faith, ever. Not even once.
I have German ancestry and he hates my guts for that reason, plus the fact that I vehemently disagreed with him on occasion (oh no, how horrible. Someone disagreed with him. He now has to destroy that person). He exploded and became extremely hostile and impulsive, he started to hunt down my comments specifically and started to bully me specifically.
He did and still does the same thing with GH, by th way. This is not a behavior that a mod should ever be allowed to display. He doesn't deserve mod powers.
If you're unaware of this context, then it might appear to you that I'm the one being unreasonable. In reality KwarK started it all and it bothers him that he can't just make me disappear from the forum like he may've previously accomplished with other people. His instigation fails and it's driving him nuts.
If you don't like my behavior towards Kwark, then file your complaint to him. He's the instigator. Always has been. Always is.
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Kwark does this to everyone, it's how he gets to feel superior. It doesn't absolve you from making correct points.
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United States42640 Posts
Pretty sure my first interaction with MP was when he argued that the Wehrmacht never did anything wrong on the eastern front and presented the lack of convictions as definitive proof of this. He was using this as part of his defence of Russian soldiers, explaining that they were no more at fault than the Wehrmacht was for all the shit they did.
I don’t have anything against Germans today, just the kind of people who spout clean Wehrmacht Nazi apologism and denial.
MP has sought me out since then making absurd claims against me like when I talk about the statistical reality of high fertility rates in Gaza and he likens them to rabbits and then says that it was actually me who said rabbits.
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On July 21 2025 00:28 Nebuchad wrote:
Kwark does this to everyone, it's how he gets to feel superior. It doesn't absolve you from making correct points.
No, he doesn't do this to everyone. Absolutely not. He has favorite targets.
See his above comment. I never defended the Wehrmacht, and when KwarK claimed that I did, literally everyone in the thread disagreed with him. To this day he brings this point up and lies about what I actually said.
He also repeatedly accused me of being a Nazi sympathizer, and he also insinuated that my grandparents are/were Nazis.
Oh and now he also claims that I'm actually the one targeting him. That is a bold-faced lie. I tried to drop matters, but he kept bringing them up. I deliberately ignored 99% of his comments for extended periods, but he kept attacking me despite knowing that I was ignoring him. He's a serial harasser.
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EPT
