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On July 19 2025 16:29 RvB wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2025 09:35 Mohdoo wrote:On July 17 2025 01:44 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:On July 17 2025 01:24 Broetchenholer wrote:
Honestly, I do not have enough information on the situation in Syria to offer an opinion. But it feels phony, because the articles written about it dance around the issue like hell. They write what Israel does and what they say to legitimize the attacks but at no point are they telling the reader that this legitimizing action actually took place. Under each atrocity committed by the idf reported by Tagesschau, the reporting had a sentence that the current war was caused by the 7th attack, killing 1200, etc. Here, this factual but moralizing statement is missing, so I guess they are just really really unsure whether protecting the druze from Syria is bullshit. https://www.reddit.com/r/Syria/s/TkOW5rbm3lSummary from the Syrian subreddit. Thanks for posting this. I have consumed very little information other than this. Based on this, it feels totally insane for Israel to prioritize this little fringe group over keeping a good relationship with Syria. Very weird situation. Normally Israel's actions are clearly unethical but I have an easy time understanding why they view it as in their best interests. In this case, I truly don't understand how this is good bang for buck. That's a perfect example why Reddit is not a news source. The government forces executed, looted, and humiliated the Druze. The reason for Israel's intervention is not that complicated. They don't want Jihadists on their border. Additionally the Druze have strong representation in the IDF and Israeli politics. Apparently Al Sharaa thought the US and Israel were okay with the troop deployment to southern Syria. Show nested quote +The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, a UK-based monitoring group, has said it has documented the killing of at least 594 people since Sunday, including 154 Druze civilians, of whom 83 were summarily killed by government forces, and three members of Bedouin tribes who were summarily killed by Druze fighters.
Syria's interim president said government forces had expelled "outlaw groups" in Suweida
Nayef, a Druze man whose name we have also changed, was also confronted with horrific scenes in Suweida.
"We are collecting bodies from the streets. We found bodies left outside houses, next to houses for two or three days," he told the BBC in a phone interview.
Despite being a government employee, Nayef lashed out in disbelief at what he saw as the government forces' brutality inside the city.
"They stormed neighbourhoods, selecting the houses that look wealthy. They looted these houses and then torched them. They sprayed unarmed civilians with bullets."
Videos circulating on social media appeared to support Nayef's allegations.
Footage shared on Facebook on Wednesday afternoon shows at least half-a-dozen men dressed in camouflage firing live rounds at a group of residents, who are kneeling on the sidewalk.
The UN human rights office said it had documented the killing of at least 13 people on Tuesday by armed men affiliated with the government who deliberately opened fire at a family gathering. On the same day, they reportedly summarily executed six men near their homes.
While bullets and shells rained down, Suweida residents were left wondering when help was coming.
But it never came.
Rima said she watched as security forces and foreign fighters entered her neighbourhood and later shot her neighbour in front of his mother.
"Is this the army and security forces who were supposed to come and protect us?" she asked. "People's livelihoods were stolen. Those who were killed were young and unarmed."
Other testimony we heard backed up Rima's claim. Those we spoke to said most of the fighters who entered Suweida and attacked civilians appeared to be Islamists.
One woman heard the fighters shouting "Allahu Akbar" (God is greatest) in her building, calling the Druze "infidels" and "pigs", and saying they were there to kill them.
Some of these fighters posted videos of themselves online humiliating men in Suweida, including cutting or shaving off the moustaches of Druze sheikhs. The moustaches are a symbol of Druze religious identity. www.bbc.com
If it's from the Syrian subreddit it's of course partial but it's pretty factual for all that.
No doubt Syrian security forces killed civilians. It's the middle east there are no good guys.
However the fact that Israel and the druze has now done a 180 and turned the entire province over these horrible general security forces is a pretty clear indication they probably aren't the biggest problem.
In the first 48 hours about half of the casulties were general security, a small amount of beduin fighters (18) and of the remaining part about 50-50 druze militia/civilians.
I don't know the timeline but it's likely the bulk of civilians were killed after the initial ambush/fighting when reinforcements arrived.
The reason the druze are now on the brink of annihilation is because they continued fucking with the local beduin tribe, notably taking women and children as hostages. I had no clue how the beduin worked but apparently they fight among themselves but are losely allied against outer threats. They also operate on old testament honor codes and are transnational in the middle east. Within 48 hours the druze were outnumbered between 5-10:1 (at least).
The Syrian government takes a lot of flak for not being able to control their forces but at least they care about external pressure and they try. Israel have no chance stopping a group that doesn't care about the government or international relations at all. Arguably it would only make it worse since beduin tribes from Iraq Jordan, SA Qatar would likely join in.
So here we are, 180 on what caused this shit in the first place and last call for the druze. They start figthing goverment security forces again it's probably over.
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On July 19 2025 16:48 Magic Powers wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2025 07:06 KwarK wrote:On July 19 2025 07:02 Magic Powers wrote:On July 19 2025 04:12 KwarK wrote:On July 19 2025 01:25 Magic Powers wrote:On July 18 2025 23:37 Jockmcplop wrote:On July 18 2025 23:24 Jankisa wrote:
Ah, I try to not assign bad intentions to posters here, there are some obvious very bad faith people, but for most I take it as "seeing red" and only seeing the parts that confirm our biases (I'm definitely including myself here as well), for BB I can tell from other threads that he seems like a reasonable person, RJ I haven't seen much, but almost everyone here has issues with **some** things that Israel is doing, to me it seems like a matter of how much is too much, who is in the "right" to do what etc.
The biggest issue I have is the lack of understanding of Syrians, Palestinians, Iranians etc.
What is currently going on, where IDF bombed a Christian church and have been apologizing up and down, up to even having a call between Nethyanahu and the Pope, it just shows how little Israel cares about Muslims.
They have bombed and demolished so many of their Mosques and places of worship, they have never apologized to anyone, it just shows that they don't think of them as "normal" humans that can be talked with.
Ditto for Syrian government, they just bombed the shit out of their Ministry of defense building in the middle of Damascus, no one is even expecting for Nethyanahu to even try to talk to Syrian government, they are just bombing away with no attempts to talk to them.
Same goes for people here saying how Gaza should be relocated, how they "bred" too much there and now it's unsustainable and someone needs to fix it.
Not Israel of course, despite them corralling Palestinians in there for decades, they shouldn't be expected to have a plan for Gaza after the war, other then getting Palestinians out of there so they can feel safe. Maybe I'm being overly cynical, but this pattern is a pattern. Anyway enough moaning about other posters, I'm getting into that habit too much. You're right about how differently Muslims are treated. Their ideology is just at odds with liberals and the right so for every rule there is an exception for Muslims where for one reason or another they don't count as people like everyone else. This is important. Muslims, and especially Gazans, are seen as lesser. They won't be treated as equals who are able to build a future for themselves when given a real opportunity. You can see this being reflected in comments such as this one: On July 11 2025 00:56 KwarK wrote:On July 11 2025 00:42 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:On July 10 2025 23:46 KwarK wrote:
Gaza is not a viable home for the Gazans. The United States can take all of them then. Until that's the plan Gaza is their only home because no one else should have to step up and deal with Israels and USAs mess. If it's not a viable home it's Israels fault and responsibility. Fault doesn’t make a difference to the truth of it at this point. Let’s say Israel disappears overnight, Palestine is restored, the Palestinians all go back to the farmland owned by their great great grandfathers. How do you divide it up between the 30 3rd cousins who have to live on land that supported a single family? The population growth has been exponential, fueled by zero Malthusian constraints in a mixed sex refugee camp. Obviously Gazans have terrible lives but none of that stops them from fucking. The question of how to feed their growing family is different there because they don’t have jobs or income and their own food is equally insecure and dependent upon aid. Food insecurity is the default, either the aid shipments get through and feed all your children or they don’t and you all starve together but there’s nothing you can do to change that. Decades of refusal to take difficult steps in resolving the refugee crisis have brought it to a point where it is now beyond resolution. That’s one of the most depressing things about the crisis. Let’s say there’s a ceasefire and things go back to how they were a few years ago. What then? There isn’t a home for them to go back to at this point. KwarK claims that Gazans show no restraint and breed like rabbits. KwarK asks why Gazans have kids despite their horrible living conditions. KwarK argues nothing can change food insecurity because Gazans have too many children. KwarK claims a ceasefire can't possibly lead to a resolution because Gaza is rubble. KwarK claims that Gazans won't adjust their behavior during peacetime to work towards prosperity. This is a baseless assumption that ignores the fact that Gazans have never been given a real shot at statehood. Evidence from other war-torn regions shows that people who've lived under severe violence and oppression can recover and build a future for themselves when they're being treated with respect and kindness, and not like a gang of criminals. This is one of the reasons why I posted that video of the gentleman who tries to build a future for himself even during wartime and with severe hunger. The perception people have of Gazans is wrong. They're 99% like the people in this thread. Completely normal people. Pardon me, let me restate that. Gazans may be a lot more normal than the people in this thread. You’re adding some super racist overtones there buddy. They breed like people. They’re not animals. Oh. Almost a moment of introspection from you. So close. You're the one calling them rabbits. You're the one doing that. My interpretation is completely fair. Unless you've never heard of that phrase. You should go back to school and study English. Show nested quote +On July 19 2025 15:07 Nebuchad wrote:On July 19 2025 07:02 Magic Powers wrote:On July 19 2025 04:12 KwarK wrote:On July 19 2025 01:25 Magic Powers wrote:On July 18 2025 23:37 Jockmcplop wrote:On July 18 2025 23:24 Jankisa wrote:
Ah, I try to not assign bad intentions to posters here, there are some obvious very bad faith people, but for most I take it as "seeing red" and only seeing the parts that confirm our biases (I'm definitely including myself here as well), for BB I can tell from other threads that he seems like a reasonable person, RJ I haven't seen much, but almost everyone here has issues with **some** things that Israel is doing, to me it seems like a matter of how much is too much, who is in the "right" to do what etc.
The biggest issue I have is the lack of understanding of Syrians, Palestinians, Iranians etc.
What is currently going on, where IDF bombed a Christian church and have been apologizing up and down, up to even having a call between Nethyanahu and the Pope, it just shows how little Israel cares about Muslims.
They have bombed and demolished so many of their Mosques and places of worship, they have never apologized to anyone, it just shows that they don't think of them as "normal" humans that can be talked with.
Ditto for Syrian government, they just bombed the shit out of their Ministry of defense building in the middle of Damascus, no one is even expecting for Nethyanahu to even try to talk to Syrian government, they are just bombing away with no attempts to talk to them.
Same goes for people here saying how Gaza should be relocated, how they "bred" too much there and now it's unsustainable and someone needs to fix it.
Not Israel of course, despite them corralling Palestinians in there for decades, they shouldn't be expected to have a plan for Gaza after the war, other then getting Palestinians out of there so they can feel safe. Maybe I'm being overly cynical, but this pattern is a pattern. Anyway enough moaning about other posters, I'm getting into that habit too much. You're right about how differently Muslims are treated. Their ideology is just at odds with liberals and the right so for every rule there is an exception for Muslims where for one reason or another they don't count as people like everyone else. This is important. Muslims, and especially Gazans, are seen as lesser. They won't be treated as equals who are able to build a future for themselves when given a real opportunity. You can see this being reflected in comments such as this one: On July 11 2025 00:56 KwarK wrote:On July 11 2025 00:42 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:On July 10 2025 23:46 KwarK wrote:
Gaza is not a viable home for the Gazans. The United States can take all of them then. Until that's the plan Gaza is their only home because no one else should have to step up and deal with Israels and USAs mess. If it's not a viable home it's Israels fault and responsibility. Fault doesn’t make a difference to the truth of it at this point. Let’s say Israel disappears overnight, Palestine is restored, the Palestinians all go back to the farmland owned by their great great grandfathers. How do you divide it up between the 30 3rd cousins who have to live on land that supported a single family? The population growth has been exponential, fueled by zero Malthusian constraints in a mixed sex refugee camp. Obviously Gazans have terrible lives but none of that stops them from fucking. The question of how to feed their growing family is different there because they don’t have jobs or income and their own food is equally insecure and dependent upon aid. Food insecurity is the default, either the aid shipments get through and feed all your children or they don’t and you all starve together but there’s nothing you can do to change that. Decades of refusal to take difficult steps in resolving the refugee crisis have brought it to a point where it is now beyond resolution. That’s one of the most depressing things about the crisis. Let’s say there’s a ceasefire and things go back to how they were a few years ago. What then? There isn’t a home for them to go back to at this point. KwarK claims that Gazans show no restraint and breed like rabbits. KwarK asks why Gazans have kids despite their horrible living conditions. KwarK argues nothing can change food insecurity because Gazans have too many children. KwarK claims a ceasefire can't possibly lead to a resolution because Gaza is rubble. KwarK claims that Gazans won't adjust their behavior during peacetime to work towards prosperity. This is a baseless assumption that ignores the fact that Gazans have never been given a real shot at statehood. Evidence from other war-torn regions shows that people who've lived under severe violence and oppression can recover and build a future for themselves when they're being treated with respect and kindness, and not like a gang of criminals. This is one of the reasons why I posted that video of the gentleman who tries to build a future for himself even during wartime and with severe hunger. The perception people have of Gazans is wrong. They're 99% like the people in this thread. Completely normal people. Pardon me, let me restate that. Gazans may be a lot more normal than the people in this thread. You’re adding some super racist overtones there buddy. They breed like people. They’re not animals. Oh. Almost a moment of introspection from you. So close. Nah he was just mocking you Oh I know KwarK is mocking me. It's just... he's revealing his own racism. Not mine. Gaza had a birthrate of ~3.3 in 2023 down from ~6 in 2000. This still puts them near the top 50 in the world.
poor people without access to contraception procreate, those in conflict area's, perhaps counter intuitively, even more so (Somalia, Chad, Niger, Congo, Central African Republic are the top 5 all with a fertility rate of over 6).
ourworldindata.org
There is nothing racist about saying Palestinians procreate a lot, they do. Like (almost) everyone in somewhat similar positions around the world.
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On July 19 2025 18:34 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2025 16:48 Magic Powers wrote:On July 19 2025 07:06 KwarK wrote:On July 19 2025 07:02 Magic Powers wrote:On July 19 2025 04:12 KwarK wrote:On July 19 2025 01:25 Magic Powers wrote:On July 18 2025 23:37 Jockmcplop wrote:On July 18 2025 23:24 Jankisa wrote:
Ah, I try to not assign bad intentions to posters here, there are some obvious very bad faith people, but for most I take it as "seeing red" and only seeing the parts that confirm our biases (I'm definitely including myself here as well), for BB I can tell from other threads that he seems like a reasonable person, RJ I haven't seen much, but almost everyone here has issues with **some** things that Israel is doing, to me it seems like a matter of how much is too much, who is in the "right" to do what etc.
The biggest issue I have is the lack of understanding of Syrians, Palestinians, Iranians etc.
What is currently going on, where IDF bombed a Christian church and have been apologizing up and down, up to even having a call between Nethyanahu and the Pope, it just shows how little Israel cares about Muslims.
They have bombed and demolished so many of their Mosques and places of worship, they have never apologized to anyone, it just shows that they don't think of them as "normal" humans that can be talked with.
Ditto for Syrian government, they just bombed the shit out of their Ministry of defense building in the middle of Damascus, no one is even expecting for Nethyanahu to even try to talk to Syrian government, they are just bombing away with no attempts to talk to them.
Same goes for people here saying how Gaza should be relocated, how they "bred" too much there and now it's unsustainable and someone needs to fix it.
Not Israel of course, despite them corralling Palestinians in there for decades, they shouldn't be expected to have a plan for Gaza after the war, other then getting Palestinians out of there so they can feel safe. Maybe I'm being overly cynical, but this pattern is a pattern. Anyway enough moaning about other posters, I'm getting into that habit too much. You're right about how differently Muslims are treated. Their ideology is just at odds with liberals and the right so for every rule there is an exception for Muslims where for one reason or another they don't count as people like everyone else. This is important. Muslims, and especially Gazans, are seen as lesser. They won't be treated as equals who are able to build a future for themselves when given a real opportunity. You can see this being reflected in comments such as this one: On July 11 2025 00:56 KwarK wrote:On July 11 2025 00:42 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:On July 10 2025 23:46 KwarK wrote:
Gaza is not a viable home for the Gazans. The United States can take all of them then. Until that's the plan Gaza is their only home because no one else should have to step up and deal with Israels and USAs mess. If it's not a viable home it's Israels fault and responsibility. Fault doesn’t make a difference to the truth of it at this point. Let’s say Israel disappears overnight, Palestine is restored, the Palestinians all go back to the farmland owned by their great great grandfathers. How do you divide it up between the 30 3rd cousins who have to live on land that supported a single family? The population growth has been exponential, fueled by zero Malthusian constraints in a mixed sex refugee camp. Obviously Gazans have terrible lives but none of that stops them from fucking. The question of how to feed their growing family is different there because they don’t have jobs or income and their own food is equally insecure and dependent upon aid. Food insecurity is the default, either the aid shipments get through and feed all your children or they don’t and you all starve together but there’s nothing you can do to change that. Decades of refusal to take difficult steps in resolving the refugee crisis have brought it to a point where it is now beyond resolution. That’s one of the most depressing things about the crisis. Let’s say there’s a ceasefire and things go back to how they were a few years ago. What then? There isn’t a home for them to go back to at this point. KwarK claims that Gazans show no restraint and breed like rabbits. KwarK asks why Gazans have kids despite their horrible living conditions. KwarK argues nothing can change food insecurity because Gazans have too many children. KwarK claims a ceasefire can't possibly lead to a resolution because Gaza is rubble. KwarK claims that Gazans won't adjust their behavior during peacetime to work towards prosperity. This is a baseless assumption that ignores the fact that Gazans have never been given a real shot at statehood. Evidence from other war-torn regions shows that people who've lived under severe violence and oppression can recover and build a future for themselves when they're being treated with respect and kindness, and not like a gang of criminals. This is one of the reasons why I posted that video of the gentleman who tries to build a future for himself even during wartime and with severe hunger. The perception people have of Gazans is wrong. They're 99% like the people in this thread. Completely normal people. Pardon me, let me restate that. Gazans may be a lot more normal than the people in this thread. You’re adding some super racist overtones there buddy. They breed like people. They’re not animals. Oh. Almost a moment of introspection from you. So close. You're the one calling them rabbits. You're the one doing that. My interpretation is completely fair. Unless you've never heard of that phrase. You should go back to school and study English. On July 19 2025 15:07 Nebuchad wrote:On July 19 2025 07:02 Magic Powers wrote:On July 19 2025 04:12 KwarK wrote:On July 19 2025 01:25 Magic Powers wrote:On July 18 2025 23:37 Jockmcplop wrote:On July 18 2025 23:24 Jankisa wrote:
Ah, I try to not assign bad intentions to posters here, there are some obvious very bad faith people, but for most I take it as "seeing red" and only seeing the parts that confirm our biases (I'm definitely including myself here as well), for BB I can tell from other threads that he seems like a reasonable person, RJ I haven't seen much, but almost everyone here has issues with **some** things that Israel is doing, to me it seems like a matter of how much is too much, who is in the "right" to do what etc.
The biggest issue I have is the lack of understanding of Syrians, Palestinians, Iranians etc.
What is currently going on, where IDF bombed a Christian church and have been apologizing up and down, up to even having a call between Nethyanahu and the Pope, it just shows how little Israel cares about Muslims.
They have bombed and demolished so many of their Mosques and places of worship, they have never apologized to anyone, it just shows that they don't think of them as "normal" humans that can be talked with.
Ditto for Syrian government, they just bombed the shit out of their Ministry of defense building in the middle of Damascus, no one is even expecting for Nethyanahu to even try to talk to Syrian government, they are just bombing away with no attempts to talk to them.
Same goes for people here saying how Gaza should be relocated, how they "bred" too much there and now it's unsustainable and someone needs to fix it.
Not Israel of course, despite them corralling Palestinians in there for decades, they shouldn't be expected to have a plan for Gaza after the war, other then getting Palestinians out of there so they can feel safe. Maybe I'm being overly cynical, but this pattern is a pattern. Anyway enough moaning about other posters, I'm getting into that habit too much. You're right about how differently Muslims are treated. Their ideology is just at odds with liberals and the right so for every rule there is an exception for Muslims where for one reason or another they don't count as people like everyone else. This is important. Muslims, and especially Gazans, are seen as lesser. They won't be treated as equals who are able to build a future for themselves when given a real opportunity. You can see this being reflected in comments such as this one: On July 11 2025 00:56 KwarK wrote:On July 11 2025 00:42 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:On July 10 2025 23:46 KwarK wrote:
Gaza is not a viable home for the Gazans. The United States can take all of them then. Until that's the plan Gaza is their only home because no one else should have to step up and deal with Israels and USAs mess. If it's not a viable home it's Israels fault and responsibility. Fault doesn’t make a difference to the truth of it at this point. Let’s say Israel disappears overnight, Palestine is restored, the Palestinians all go back to the farmland owned by their great great grandfathers. How do you divide it up between the 30 3rd cousins who have to live on land that supported a single family? The population growth has been exponential, fueled by zero Malthusian constraints in a mixed sex refugee camp. Obviously Gazans have terrible lives but none of that stops them from fucking. The question of how to feed their growing family is different there because they don’t have jobs or income and their own food is equally insecure and dependent upon aid. Food insecurity is the default, either the aid shipments get through and feed all your children or they don’t and you all starve together but there’s nothing you can do to change that. Decades of refusal to take difficult steps in resolving the refugee crisis have brought it to a point where it is now beyond resolution. That’s one of the most depressing things about the crisis. Let’s say there’s a ceasefire and things go back to how they were a few years ago. What then? There isn’t a home for them to go back to at this point. KwarK claims that Gazans show no restraint and breed like rabbits. KwarK asks why Gazans have kids despite their horrible living conditions. KwarK argues nothing can change food insecurity because Gazans have too many children. KwarK claims a ceasefire can't possibly lead to a resolution because Gaza is rubble. KwarK claims that Gazans won't adjust their behavior during peacetime to work towards prosperity. This is a baseless assumption that ignores the fact that Gazans have never been given a real shot at statehood. Evidence from other war-torn regions shows that people who've lived under severe violence and oppression can recover and build a future for themselves when they're being treated with respect and kindness, and not like a gang of criminals. This is one of the reasons why I posted that video of the gentleman who tries to build a future for himself even during wartime and with severe hunger. The perception people have of Gazans is wrong. They're 99% like the people in this thread. Completely normal people. Pardon me, let me restate that. Gazans may be a lot more normal than the people in this thread. You’re adding some super racist overtones there buddy. They breed like people. They’re not animals. Oh. Almost a moment of introspection from you. So close. Nah he was just mocking you Oh I know KwarK is mocking me. It's just... he's revealing his own racism. Not mine. Gaza had a birthrate of ~3.3 in 2023 down from ~6 in 2000. This still puts them near the top 50 in the world. poor people without access to contraception procreate, those in conflict area's, perhaps counter intuitively, even more so (Somalia, Chad, Niger, Congo, Central African Republic are the top 5 all with a fertility rate of over 6). ourworldindata.orgThere is nothing racist about saying Palestinians procreate a lot, they do. Like (almost) everyone in somewhat similar positions around the world.
The racist part comes later. KwarK follows with his conclusion that Gazans are hopeless based on them fucking like rabbits and thus having no future. He omits the part where Israel very deliberately doesn't allow them any hope for statehood and never has allowed them any such hope. Far from it, Israel has created war, famine, ethnically cleansed the West Bank (thus also showing Gazans their guaranteed future), and propped up Hamas while undermining PA.
None of this is because of Gazans having too many kids. Their predicament is caused by those with power and only those with power. Gazans are innocent, and if they were given a real chance, they'd be able to take it and build a future for themselves.
Meanwhile KwarK: they fuck, so they fail.
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On July 19 2025 18:54 Magic Powers wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2025 18:34 Gorsameth wrote:On July 19 2025 16:48 Magic Powers wrote:On July 19 2025 07:06 KwarK wrote:On July 19 2025 07:02 Magic Powers wrote:On July 19 2025 04:12 KwarK wrote:On July 19 2025 01:25 Magic Powers wrote:On July 18 2025 23:37 Jockmcplop wrote:On July 18 2025 23:24 Jankisa wrote:
Ah, I try to not assign bad intentions to posters here, there are some obvious very bad faith people, but for most I take it as "seeing red" and only seeing the parts that confirm our biases (I'm definitely including myself here as well), for BB I can tell from other threads that he seems like a reasonable person, RJ I haven't seen much, but almost everyone here has issues with **some** things that Israel is doing, to me it seems like a matter of how much is too much, who is in the "right" to do what etc.
The biggest issue I have is the lack of understanding of Syrians, Palestinians, Iranians etc.
What is currently going on, where IDF bombed a Christian church and have been apologizing up and down, up to even having a call between Nethyanahu and the Pope, it just shows how little Israel cares about Muslims.
They have bombed and demolished so many of their Mosques and places of worship, they have never apologized to anyone, it just shows that they don't think of them as "normal" humans that can be talked with.
Ditto for Syrian government, they just bombed the shit out of their Ministry of defense building in the middle of Damascus, no one is even expecting for Nethyanahu to even try to talk to Syrian government, they are just bombing away with no attempts to talk to them.
Same goes for people here saying how Gaza should be relocated, how they "bred" too much there and now it's unsustainable and someone needs to fix it.
Not Israel of course, despite them corralling Palestinians in there for decades, they shouldn't be expected to have a plan for Gaza after the war, other then getting Palestinians out of there so they can feel safe. Maybe I'm being overly cynical, but this pattern is a pattern. Anyway enough moaning about other posters, I'm getting into that habit too much. You're right about how differently Muslims are treated. Their ideology is just at odds with liberals and the right so for every rule there is an exception for Muslims where for one reason or another they don't count as people like everyone else. This is important. Muslims, and especially Gazans, are seen as lesser. They won't be treated as equals who are able to build a future for themselves when given a real opportunity. You can see this being reflected in comments such as this one: On July 11 2025 00:56 KwarK wrote:On July 11 2025 00:42 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:On July 10 2025 23:46 KwarK wrote:
Gaza is not a viable home for the Gazans. The United States can take all of them then. Until that's the plan Gaza is their only home because no one else should have to step up and deal with Israels and USAs mess. If it's not a viable home it's Israels fault and responsibility. Fault doesn’t make a difference to the truth of it at this point. Let’s say Israel disappears overnight, Palestine is restored, the Palestinians all go back to the farmland owned by their great great grandfathers. How do you divide it up between the 30 3rd cousins who have to live on land that supported a single family? The population growth has been exponential, fueled by zero Malthusian constraints in a mixed sex refugee camp. Obviously Gazans have terrible lives but none of that stops them from fucking. The question of how to feed their growing family is different there because they don’t have jobs or income and their own food is equally insecure and dependent upon aid. Food insecurity is the default, either the aid shipments get through and feed all your children or they don’t and you all starve together but there’s nothing you can do to change that. Decades of refusal to take difficult steps in resolving the refugee crisis have brought it to a point where it is now beyond resolution. That’s one of the most depressing things about the crisis. Let’s say there’s a ceasefire and things go back to how they were a few years ago. What then? There isn’t a home for them to go back to at this point. KwarK claims that Gazans show no restraint and breed like rabbits. KwarK asks why Gazans have kids despite their horrible living conditions. KwarK argues nothing can change food insecurity because Gazans have too many children. KwarK claims a ceasefire can't possibly lead to a resolution because Gaza is rubble. KwarK claims that Gazans won't adjust their behavior during peacetime to work towards prosperity. This is a baseless assumption that ignores the fact that Gazans have never been given a real shot at statehood. Evidence from other war-torn regions shows that people who've lived under severe violence and oppression can recover and build a future for themselves when they're being treated with respect and kindness, and not like a gang of criminals. This is one of the reasons why I posted that video of the gentleman who tries to build a future for himself even during wartime and with severe hunger. The perception people have of Gazans is wrong. They're 99% like the people in this thread. Completely normal people. Pardon me, let me restate that. Gazans may be a lot more normal than the people in this thread. You’re adding some super racist overtones there buddy. They breed like people. They’re not animals. Oh. Almost a moment of introspection from you. So close. You're the one calling them rabbits. You're the one doing that. My interpretation is completely fair. Unless you've never heard of that phrase. You should go back to school and study English. On July 19 2025 15:07 Nebuchad wrote:On July 19 2025 07:02 Magic Powers wrote:On July 19 2025 04:12 KwarK wrote:On July 19 2025 01:25 Magic Powers wrote:On July 18 2025 23:37 Jockmcplop wrote:On July 18 2025 23:24 Jankisa wrote:
Ah, I try to not assign bad intentions to posters here, there are some obvious very bad faith people, but for most I take it as "seeing red" and only seeing the parts that confirm our biases (I'm definitely including myself here as well), for BB I can tell from other threads that he seems like a reasonable person, RJ I haven't seen much, but almost everyone here has issues with **some** things that Israel is doing, to me it seems like a matter of how much is too much, who is in the "right" to do what etc.
The biggest issue I have is the lack of understanding of Syrians, Palestinians, Iranians etc.
What is currently going on, where IDF bombed a Christian church and have been apologizing up and down, up to even having a call between Nethyanahu and the Pope, it just shows how little Israel cares about Muslims.
They have bombed and demolished so many of their Mosques and places of worship, they have never apologized to anyone, it just shows that they don't think of them as "normal" humans that can be talked with.
Ditto for Syrian government, they just bombed the shit out of their Ministry of defense building in the middle of Damascus, no one is even expecting for Nethyanahu to even try to talk to Syrian government, they are just bombing away with no attempts to talk to them.
Same goes for people here saying how Gaza should be relocated, how they "bred" too much there and now it's unsustainable and someone needs to fix it.
Not Israel of course, despite them corralling Palestinians in there for decades, they shouldn't be expected to have a plan for Gaza after the war, other then getting Palestinians out of there so they can feel safe. Maybe I'm being overly cynical, but this pattern is a pattern. Anyway enough moaning about other posters, I'm getting into that habit too much. You're right about how differently Muslims are treated. Their ideology is just at odds with liberals and the right so for every rule there is an exception for Muslims where for one reason or another they don't count as people like everyone else. This is important. Muslims, and especially Gazans, are seen as lesser. They won't be treated as equals who are able to build a future for themselves when given a real opportunity. You can see this being reflected in comments such as this one: On July 11 2025 00:56 KwarK wrote:On July 11 2025 00:42 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:On July 10 2025 23:46 KwarK wrote:
Gaza is not a viable home for the Gazans. The United States can take all of them then. Until that's the plan Gaza is their only home because no one else should have to step up and deal with Israels and USAs mess. If it's not a viable home it's Israels fault and responsibility. Fault doesn’t make a difference to the truth of it at this point. Let’s say Israel disappears overnight, Palestine is restored, the Palestinians all go back to the farmland owned by their great great grandfathers. How do you divide it up between the 30 3rd cousins who have to live on land that supported a single family? The population growth has been exponential, fueled by zero Malthusian constraints in a mixed sex refugee camp. Obviously Gazans have terrible lives but none of that stops them from fucking. The question of how to feed their growing family is different there because they don’t have jobs or income and their own food is equally insecure and dependent upon aid. Food insecurity is the default, either the aid shipments get through and feed all your children or they don’t and you all starve together but there’s nothing you can do to change that. Decades of refusal to take difficult steps in resolving the refugee crisis have brought it to a point where it is now beyond resolution. That’s one of the most depressing things about the crisis. Let’s say there’s a ceasefire and things go back to how they were a few years ago. What then? There isn’t a home for them to go back to at this point. KwarK claims that Gazans show no restraint and breed like rabbits. KwarK asks why Gazans have kids despite their horrible living conditions. KwarK argues nothing can change food insecurity because Gazans have too many children. KwarK claims a ceasefire can't possibly lead to a resolution because Gaza is rubble. KwarK claims that Gazans won't adjust their behavior during peacetime to work towards prosperity. This is a baseless assumption that ignores the fact that Gazans have never been given a real shot at statehood. Evidence from other war-torn regions shows that people who've lived under severe violence and oppression can recover and build a future for themselves when they're being treated with respect and kindness, and not like a gang of criminals. This is one of the reasons why I posted that video of the gentleman who tries to build a future for himself even during wartime and with severe hunger. The perception people have of Gazans is wrong. They're 99% like the people in this thread. Completely normal people. Pardon me, let me restate that. Gazans may be a lot more normal than the people in this thread. You’re adding some super racist overtones there buddy. They breed like people. They’re not animals. Oh. Almost a moment of introspection from you. So close. Nah he was just mocking you Oh I know KwarK is mocking me. It's just... he's revealing his own racism. Not mine. Gaza had a birthrate of ~3.3 in 2023 down from ~6 in 2000. This still puts them near the top 50 in the world. poor people without access to contraception procreate, those in conflict area's, perhaps counter intuitively, even more so (Somalia, Chad, Niger, Congo, Central African Republic are the top 5 all with a fertility rate of over 6). ourworldindata.orgThere is nothing racist about saying Palestinians procreate a lot, they do. Like (almost) everyone in somewhat similar positions around the world. The racist part comes later. KwarK follows with his conclusion that Gazans are hopeless based on them fucking like rabbits and thus having no future. He omits the part where Israel very deliberately doesn't allow them any hope for statehood and never has allowed them any such hope. Far from it, Israel has created war, famine, ethnically cleansed the West Bank (thus also showing Gazans their guaranteed future), and propped up Hamas while undermining PA. None of this is because of Gazans having too many kids. Their predicament is caused by those with power and only those with power. Gazans are innocent, and if they were given a real chance, they'd be able to take it and build a future for themselves. Meanwhile KwarK: they fuck, so they fail. your adding stuff that isn't in the post your complaining about so that you can complain about it.
Gaza is fucked and ending the war doesn't stop them from being fucked because Gaza is a refugee camp with the population density of London without the rest of England around it to provide for food. Its inhabited by 50% children and its population is growing rapidly only compounding the long term problems. The time to 'fix' Gaza and allow it to stand on its own was decades ago.
No amount of will and drive is going to fix the situation because the math of that many people in 1 area without surrounding countryside doesn't add up unless we're rebuilding it into the first greenhouse skyscraper city in the world.
'We' in this thread have talked about this numerous times in the past, including after oct 7th. It has nothing to do with ethnicity. The simple numbers of people, land and age means Gaza is fucked beyond fucked no matter who lives there. There is no solution without massive geopolitical change, that many people cannot love on that amount of land without massive external dependancy.
Its not that they fuck so they fail. They live in a failed state so they fuck. As everyone living in a failed state does.
|
On July 19 2025 19:17 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2025 18:54 Magic Powers wrote:On July 19 2025 18:34 Gorsameth wrote:On July 19 2025 16:48 Magic Powers wrote:On July 19 2025 07:06 KwarK wrote:On July 19 2025 07:02 Magic Powers wrote:On July 19 2025 04:12 KwarK wrote:On July 19 2025 01:25 Magic Powers wrote:On July 18 2025 23:37 Jockmcplop wrote:On July 18 2025 23:24 Jankisa wrote:
Ah, I try to not assign bad intentions to posters here, there are some obvious very bad faith people, but for most I take it as "seeing red" and only seeing the parts that confirm our biases (I'm definitely including myself here as well), for BB I can tell from other threads that he seems like a reasonable person, RJ I haven't seen much, but almost everyone here has issues with **some** things that Israel is doing, to me it seems like a matter of how much is too much, who is in the "right" to do what etc.
The biggest issue I have is the lack of understanding of Syrians, Palestinians, Iranians etc.
What is currently going on, where IDF bombed a Christian church and have been apologizing up and down, up to even having a call between Nethyanahu and the Pope, it just shows how little Israel cares about Muslims.
They have bombed and demolished so many of their Mosques and places of worship, they have never apologized to anyone, it just shows that they don't think of them as "normal" humans that can be talked with.
Ditto for Syrian government, they just bombed the shit out of their Ministry of defense building in the middle of Damascus, no one is even expecting for Nethyanahu to even try to talk to Syrian government, they are just bombing away with no attempts to talk to them.
Same goes for people here saying how Gaza should be relocated, how they "bred" too much there and now it's unsustainable and someone needs to fix it.
Not Israel of course, despite them corralling Palestinians in there for decades, they shouldn't be expected to have a plan for Gaza after the war, other then getting Palestinians out of there so they can feel safe. Maybe I'm being overly cynical, but this pattern is a pattern. Anyway enough moaning about other posters, I'm getting into that habit too much. You're right about how differently Muslims are treated. Their ideology is just at odds with liberals and the right so for every rule there is an exception for Muslims where for one reason or another they don't count as people like everyone else. This is important. Muslims, and especially Gazans, are seen as lesser. They won't be treated as equals who are able to build a future for themselves when given a real opportunity. You can see this being reflected in comments such as this one: On July 11 2025 00:56 KwarK wrote:On July 11 2025 00:42 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:
[quote]
The United States can take all of them then.
Until that's the plan Gaza is their only home because no one else should have to step up and deal with Israels and USAs mess.
If it's not a viable home it's Israels fault and responsibility. Fault doesn’t make a difference to the truth of it at this point. Let’s say Israel disappears overnight, Palestine is restored, the Palestinians all go back to the farmland owned by their great great grandfathers. How do you divide it up between the 30 3rd cousins who have to live on land that supported a single family? The population growth has been exponential, fueled by zero Malthusian constraints in a mixed sex refugee camp. Obviously Gazans have terrible lives but none of that stops them from fucking. The question of how to feed their growing family is different there because they don’t have jobs or income and their own food is equally insecure and dependent upon aid. Food insecurity is the default, either the aid shipments get through and feed all your children or they don’t and you all starve together but there’s nothing you can do to change that. Decades of refusal to take difficult steps in resolving the refugee crisis have brought it to a point where it is now beyond resolution. That’s one of the most depressing things about the crisis. Let’s say there’s a ceasefire and things go back to how they were a few years ago. What then? There isn’t a home for them to go back to at this point. KwarK claims that Gazans show no restraint and breed like rabbits. KwarK asks why Gazans have kids despite their horrible living conditions. KwarK argues nothing can change food insecurity because Gazans have too many children. KwarK claims a ceasefire can't possibly lead to a resolution because Gaza is rubble. KwarK claims that Gazans won't adjust their behavior during peacetime to work towards prosperity. This is a baseless assumption that ignores the fact that Gazans have never been given a real shot at statehood. Evidence from other war-torn regions shows that people who've lived under severe violence and oppression can recover and build a future for themselves when they're being treated with respect and kindness, and not like a gang of criminals. This is one of the reasons why I posted that video of the gentleman who tries to build a future for himself even during wartime and with severe hunger. The perception people have of Gazans is wrong. They're 99% like the people in this thread. Completely normal people. Pardon me, let me restate that. Gazans may be a lot more normal than the people in this thread. You’re adding some super racist overtones there buddy. They breed like people. They’re not animals. Oh. Almost a moment of introspection from you. So close. You're the one calling them rabbits. You're the one doing that. My interpretation is completely fair. Unless you've never heard of that phrase. You should go back to school and study English. On July 19 2025 15:07 Nebuchad wrote:On July 19 2025 07:02 Magic Powers wrote:On July 19 2025 04:12 KwarK wrote:On July 19 2025 01:25 Magic Powers wrote:On July 18 2025 23:37 Jockmcplop wrote:On July 18 2025 23:24 Jankisa wrote:
Ah, I try to not assign bad intentions to posters here, there are some obvious very bad faith people, but for most I take it as "seeing red" and only seeing the parts that confirm our biases (I'm definitely including myself here as well), for BB I can tell from other threads that he seems like a reasonable person, RJ I haven't seen much, but almost everyone here has issues with **some** things that Israel is doing, to me it seems like a matter of how much is too much, who is in the "right" to do what etc.
The biggest issue I have is the lack of understanding of Syrians, Palestinians, Iranians etc.
What is currently going on, where IDF bombed a Christian church and have been apologizing up and down, up to even having a call between Nethyanahu and the Pope, it just shows how little Israel cares about Muslims.
They have bombed and demolished so many of their Mosques and places of worship, they have never apologized to anyone, it just shows that they don't think of them as "normal" humans that can be talked with.
Ditto for Syrian government, they just bombed the shit out of their Ministry of defense building in the middle of Damascus, no one is even expecting for Nethyanahu to even try to talk to Syrian government, they are just bombing away with no attempts to talk to them.
Same goes for people here saying how Gaza should be relocated, how they "bred" too much there and now it's unsustainable and someone needs to fix it.
Not Israel of course, despite them corralling Palestinians in there for decades, they shouldn't be expected to have a plan for Gaza after the war, other then getting Palestinians out of there so they can feel safe. Maybe I'm being overly cynical, but this pattern is a pattern. Anyway enough moaning about other posters, I'm getting into that habit too much. You're right about how differently Muslims are treated. Their ideology is just at odds with liberals and the right so for every rule there is an exception for Muslims where for one reason or another they don't count as people like everyone else. This is important. Muslims, and especially Gazans, are seen as lesser. They won't be treated as equals who are able to build a future for themselves when given a real opportunity. You can see this being reflected in comments such as this one: On July 11 2025 00:56 KwarK wrote:On July 11 2025 00:42 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:
[quote]
The United States can take all of them then.
Until that's the plan Gaza is their only home because no one else should have to step up and deal with Israels and USAs mess.
If it's not a viable home it's Israels fault and responsibility. Fault doesn’t make a difference to the truth of it at this point. Let’s say Israel disappears overnight, Palestine is restored, the Palestinians all go back to the farmland owned by their great great grandfathers. How do you divide it up between the 30 3rd cousins who have to live on land that supported a single family? The population growth has been exponential, fueled by zero Malthusian constraints in a mixed sex refugee camp. Obviously Gazans have terrible lives but none of that stops them from fucking. The question of how to feed their growing family is different there because they don’t have jobs or income and their own food is equally insecure and dependent upon aid. Food insecurity is the default, either the aid shipments get through and feed all your children or they don’t and you all starve together but there’s nothing you can do to change that. Decades of refusal to take difficult steps in resolving the refugee crisis have brought it to a point where it is now beyond resolution. That’s one of the most depressing things about the crisis. Let’s say there’s a ceasefire and things go back to how they were a few years ago. What then? There isn’t a home for them to go back to at this point. KwarK claims that Gazans show no restraint and breed like rabbits. KwarK asks why Gazans have kids despite their horrible living conditions. KwarK argues nothing can change food insecurity because Gazans have too many children. KwarK claims a ceasefire can't possibly lead to a resolution because Gaza is rubble. KwarK claims that Gazans won't adjust their behavior during peacetime to work towards prosperity. This is a baseless assumption that ignores the fact that Gazans have never been given a real shot at statehood. Evidence from other war-torn regions shows that people who've lived under severe violence and oppression can recover and build a future for themselves when they're being treated with respect and kindness, and not like a gang of criminals. This is one of the reasons why I posted that video of the gentleman who tries to build a future for himself even during wartime and with severe hunger. The perception people have of Gazans is wrong. They're 99% like the people in this thread. Completely normal people. Pardon me, let me restate that. Gazans may be a lot more normal than the people in this thread. You’re adding some super racist overtones there buddy. They breed like people. They’re not animals. Oh. Almost a moment of introspection from you. So close. Nah he was just mocking you Oh I know KwarK is mocking me. It's just... he's revealing his own racism. Not mine. Gaza had a birthrate of ~3.3 in 2023 down from ~6 in 2000. This still puts them near the top 50 in the world. poor people without access to contraception procreate, those in conflict area's, perhaps counter intuitively, even more so (Somalia, Chad, Niger, Congo, Central African Republic are the top 5 all with a fertility rate of over 6). ourworldindata.orgThere is nothing racist about saying Palestinians procreate a lot, they do. Like (almost) everyone in somewhat similar positions around the world. The racist part comes later. KwarK follows with his conclusion that Gazans are hopeless based on them fucking like rabbits and thus having no future. He omits the part where Israel very deliberately doesn't allow them any hope for statehood and never has allowed them any such hope. Far from it, Israel has created war, famine, ethnically cleansed the West Bank (thus also showing Gazans their guaranteed future), and propped up Hamas while undermining PA. None of this is because of Gazans having too many kids. Their predicament is caused by those with power and only those with power. Gazans are innocent, and if they were given a real chance, they'd be able to take it and build a future for themselves. Meanwhile KwarK: they fuck, so they fail. your adding stuff that isn't in the post your complaining about so that you can complain about it. Gaza is fucked and ending the war doesn't stop them from being fucked because Gaza is a refugee camp with the population density of London without the rest of England around it to provide for food. Its inhabited by 50% children and its population is growing rapidly only compounding the long term problems. The time to 'fix' Gaza and allow it to stand on its own was decades ago. No amount of will and drive is going to fix the situation because the math of that many people in 1 area without surrounding countryside doesn't add up unless we're rebuilding it into the first greenhouse skyscraper city in the world. 'We' in this thread have talked about this numerous times in the past, including after oct 7th. It has nothing to do with ethnicity. The simple numbers of people, land and age means Gaza is fucked beyond fucked no matter who lives there. There is no solution without massive geopolitical change, that many people cannot love on that amount of land without massive external dependancy. Its not that they fuck so they fail. They live in a failed state so they fuck. As everyone living in a failed state does.
KwarK has every opportunity to clarify to make himself look better. He's known for making outrageous comments and doubling down on them instead of elaborating to make himself look good. You don't have to defend his racism in his stead.
Also, Gazans can absolutely achieve statehood if they're allowed to do so. Their birth rate is irrelevant. It's an excuse to maintain the war.
|
On July 19 2025 19:31 Magic Powers wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2025 19:17 Gorsameth wrote:On July 19 2025 18:54 Magic Powers wrote:On July 19 2025 18:34 Gorsameth wrote:On July 19 2025 16:48 Magic Powers wrote:On July 19 2025 07:06 KwarK wrote:On July 19 2025 07:02 Magic Powers wrote:On July 19 2025 04:12 KwarK wrote:On July 19 2025 01:25 Magic Powers wrote:On July 18 2025 23:37 Jockmcplop wrote:
[quote]
Maybe I'm being overly cynical, but this pattern is a pattern.
Anyway enough moaning about other posters, I'm getting into that habit too much.
You're right about how differently Muslims are treated. Their ideology is just at odds with liberals and the right so for every rule there is an exception for Muslims where for one reason or another they don't count as people like everyone else. This is important. Muslims, and especially Gazans, are seen as lesser. They won't be treated as equals who are able to build a future for themselves when given a real opportunity. You can see this being reflected in comments such as this one: On July 11 2025 00:56 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
Fault doesn’t make a difference to the truth of it at this point. Let’s say Israel disappears overnight, Palestine is restored, the Palestinians all go back to the farmland owned by their great great grandfathers. How do you divide it up between the 30 3rd cousins who have to live on land that supported a single family?
The population growth has been exponential, fueled by zero Malthusian constraints in a mixed sex refugee camp. Obviously Gazans have terrible lives but none of that stops them from fucking. The question of how to feed their growing family is different there because they don’t have jobs or income and their own food is equally insecure and dependent upon aid. Food insecurity is the default, either the aid shipments get through and feed all your children or they don’t and you all starve together but there’s nothing you can do to change that.
Decades of refusal to take difficult steps in resolving the refugee crisis have brought it to a point where it is now beyond resolution. That’s one of the most depressing things about the crisis. Let’s say there’s a ceasefire and things go back to how they were a few years ago. What then?
There isn’t a home for them to go back to at this point. KwarK claims that Gazans show no restraint and breed like rabbits. KwarK asks why Gazans have kids despite their horrible living conditions. KwarK argues nothing can change food insecurity because Gazans have too many children. KwarK claims a ceasefire can't possibly lead to a resolution because Gaza is rubble. KwarK claims that Gazans won't adjust their behavior during peacetime to work towards prosperity. This is a baseless assumption that ignores the fact that Gazans have never been given a real shot at statehood. Evidence from other war-torn regions shows that people who've lived under severe violence and oppression can recover and build a future for themselves when they're being treated with respect and kindness, and not like a gang of criminals. This is one of the reasons why I posted that video of the gentleman who tries to build a future for himself even during wartime and with severe hunger. The perception people have of Gazans is wrong. They're 99% like the people in this thread. Completely normal people. Pardon me, let me restate that. Gazans may be a lot more normal than the people in this thread. You’re adding some super racist overtones there buddy. They breed like people. They’re not animals. Oh. Almost a moment of introspection from you. So close. You're the one calling them rabbits. You're the one doing that. My interpretation is completely fair. Unless you've never heard of that phrase. You should go back to school and study English. On July 19 2025 15:07 Nebuchad wrote:On July 19 2025 07:02 Magic Powers wrote:On July 19 2025 04:12 KwarK wrote:On July 19 2025 01:25 Magic Powers wrote:On July 18 2025 23:37 Jockmcplop wrote:
[quote]
Maybe I'm being overly cynical, but this pattern is a pattern.
Anyway enough moaning about other posters, I'm getting into that habit too much.
You're right about how differently Muslims are treated. Their ideology is just at odds with liberals and the right so for every rule there is an exception for Muslims where for one reason or another they don't count as people like everyone else. This is important. Muslims, and especially Gazans, are seen as lesser. They won't be treated as equals who are able to build a future for themselves when given a real opportunity. You can see this being reflected in comments such as this one: On July 11 2025 00:56 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
Fault doesn’t make a difference to the truth of it at this point. Let’s say Israel disappears overnight, Palestine is restored, the Palestinians all go back to the farmland owned by their great great grandfathers. How do you divide it up between the 30 3rd cousins who have to live on land that supported a single family?
The population growth has been exponential, fueled by zero Malthusian constraints in a mixed sex refugee camp. Obviously Gazans have terrible lives but none of that stops them from fucking. The question of how to feed their growing family is different there because they don’t have jobs or income and their own food is equally insecure and dependent upon aid. Food insecurity is the default, either the aid shipments get through and feed all your children or they don’t and you all starve together but there’s nothing you can do to change that.
Decades of refusal to take difficult steps in resolving the refugee crisis have brought it to a point where it is now beyond resolution. That’s one of the most depressing things about the crisis. Let’s say there’s a ceasefire and things go back to how they were a few years ago. What then?
There isn’t a home for them to go back to at this point. KwarK claims that Gazans show no restraint and breed like rabbits. KwarK asks why Gazans have kids despite their horrible living conditions. KwarK argues nothing can change food insecurity because Gazans have too many children. KwarK claims a ceasefire can't possibly lead to a resolution because Gaza is rubble. KwarK claims that Gazans won't adjust their behavior during peacetime to work towards prosperity. This is a baseless assumption that ignores the fact that Gazans have never been given a real shot at statehood. Evidence from other war-torn regions shows that people who've lived under severe violence and oppression can recover and build a future for themselves when they're being treated with respect and kindness, and not like a gang of criminals. This is one of the reasons why I posted that video of the gentleman who tries to build a future for himself even during wartime and with severe hunger. The perception people have of Gazans is wrong. They're 99% like the people in this thread. Completely normal people. Pardon me, let me restate that. Gazans may be a lot more normal than the people in this thread. You’re adding some super racist overtones there buddy. They breed like people. They’re not animals. Oh. Almost a moment of introspection from you. So close. Nah he was just mocking you Oh I know KwarK is mocking me. It's just... he's revealing his own racism. Not mine. Gaza had a birthrate of ~3.3 in 2023 down from ~6 in 2000. This still puts them near the top 50 in the world. poor people without access to contraception procreate, those in conflict area's, perhaps counter intuitively, even more so (Somalia, Chad, Niger, Congo, Central African Republic are the top 5 all with a fertility rate of over 6). ourworldindata.orgThere is nothing racist about saying Palestinians procreate a lot, they do. Like (almost) everyone in somewhat similar positions around the world. The racist part comes later. KwarK follows with his conclusion that Gazans are hopeless based on them fucking like rabbits and thus having no future. He omits the part where Israel very deliberately doesn't allow them any hope for statehood and never has allowed them any such hope. Far from it, Israel has created war, famine, ethnically cleansed the West Bank (thus also showing Gazans their guaranteed future), and propped up Hamas while undermining PA. None of this is because of Gazans having too many kids. Their predicament is caused by those with power and only those with power. Gazans are innocent, and if they were given a real chance, they'd be able to take it and build a future for themselves. Meanwhile KwarK: they fuck, so they fail. your adding stuff that isn't in the post your complaining about so that you can complain about it. Gaza is fucked and ending the war doesn't stop them from being fucked because Gaza is a refugee camp with the population density of London without the rest of England around it to provide for food. Its inhabited by 50% children and its population is growing rapidly only compounding the long term problems. The time to 'fix' Gaza and allow it to stand on its own was decades ago. No amount of will and drive is going to fix the situation because the math of that many people in 1 area without surrounding countryside doesn't add up unless we're rebuilding it into the first greenhouse skyscraper city in the world. 'We' in this thread have talked about this numerous times in the past, including after oct 7th. It has nothing to do with ethnicity. The simple numbers of people, land and age means Gaza is fucked beyond fucked no matter who lives there. There is no solution without massive geopolitical change, that many people cannot love on that amount of land without massive external dependancy. Its not that they fuck so they fail. They live in a failed state so they fuck. As everyone living in a failed state does. KwarK has every opportunity to clarify to make himself look better. He's known for making outrageous comments and doubling down on them instead of elaborating to make himself look good. You don't have to defend his racism in his stead. Also, Gazans can absolutely achieve statehood if they're allowed to do so. Their birth rate is irrelevant. It's an excuse to maintain the war. its not about statehood. I can make statehood if my home country would let me. That problem is becoming a functional state capable of taking care of its citizens. And Gaza in its current incarnation can't. Not because of racism or its people but because the numbers don't add up.
And we've had this same discussion last year without you coming in shouting "omg racist".
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On July 19 2025 19:36 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2025 19:31 Magic Powers wrote:On July 19 2025 19:17 Gorsameth wrote:On July 19 2025 18:54 Magic Powers wrote:On July 19 2025 18:34 Gorsameth wrote:On July 19 2025 16:48 Magic Powers wrote:On July 19 2025 07:06 KwarK wrote:On July 19 2025 07:02 Magic Powers wrote:On July 19 2025 04:12 KwarK wrote:On July 19 2025 01:25 Magic Powers wrote:
[quote]
This is important. Muslims, and especially Gazans, are seen as lesser. They won't be treated as equals who are able to build a future for themselves when given a real opportunity.
You can see this being reflected in comments such as this one:
[quote]
KwarK claims that Gazans show no restraint and breed like rabbits.
KwarK asks why Gazans have kids despite their horrible living conditions.
KwarK argues nothing can change food insecurity because Gazans have too many children.
KwarK claims a ceasefire can't possibly lead to a resolution because Gaza is rubble.
KwarK claims that Gazans won't adjust their behavior during peacetime to work towards prosperity. This is a baseless assumption that ignores the fact that Gazans have never been given a real shot at statehood. Evidence from other war-torn regions shows that people who've lived under severe violence and oppression can recover and build a future for themselves when they're being treated with respect and kindness, and not like a gang of criminals.
This is one of the reasons why I posted that video of the gentleman who tries to build a future for himself even during wartime and with severe hunger. The perception people have of Gazans is wrong. They're 99% like the people in this thread. Completely normal people.
Pardon me, let me restate that. Gazans may be a lot more normal than the people in this thread. You’re adding some super racist overtones there buddy. They breed like people. They’re not animals. Oh. Almost a moment of introspection from you. So close. You're the one calling them rabbits. You're the one doing that. My interpretation is completely fair. Unless you've never heard of that phrase. You should go back to school and study English. On July 19 2025 15:07 Nebuchad wrote:On July 19 2025 07:02 Magic Powers wrote:On July 19 2025 04:12 KwarK wrote:On July 19 2025 01:25 Magic Powers wrote:
[quote]
This is important. Muslims, and especially Gazans, are seen as lesser. They won't be treated as equals who are able to build a future for themselves when given a real opportunity.
You can see this being reflected in comments such as this one:
[quote]
KwarK claims that Gazans show no restraint and breed like rabbits.
KwarK asks why Gazans have kids despite their horrible living conditions.
KwarK argues nothing can change food insecurity because Gazans have too many children.
KwarK claims a ceasefire can't possibly lead to a resolution because Gaza is rubble.
KwarK claims that Gazans won't adjust their behavior during peacetime to work towards prosperity. This is a baseless assumption that ignores the fact that Gazans have never been given a real shot at statehood. Evidence from other war-torn regions shows that people who've lived under severe violence and oppression can recover and build a future for themselves when they're being treated with respect and kindness, and not like a gang of criminals.
This is one of the reasons why I posted that video of the gentleman who tries to build a future for himself even during wartime and with severe hunger. The perception people have of Gazans is wrong. They're 99% like the people in this thread. Completely normal people.
Pardon me, let me restate that. Gazans may be a lot more normal than the people in this thread. You’re adding some super racist overtones there buddy. They breed like people. They’re not animals. Oh. Almost a moment of introspection from you. So close. Nah he was just mocking you Oh I know KwarK is mocking me. It's just... he's revealing his own racism. Not mine. Gaza had a birthrate of ~3.3 in 2023 down from ~6 in 2000. This still puts them near the top 50 in the world. poor people without access to contraception procreate, those in conflict area's, perhaps counter intuitively, even more so (Somalia, Chad, Niger, Congo, Central African Republic are the top 5 all with a fertility rate of over 6). ourworldindata.orgThere is nothing racist about saying Palestinians procreate a lot, they do. Like (almost) everyone in somewhat similar positions around the world. The racist part comes later. KwarK follows with his conclusion that Gazans are hopeless based on them fucking like rabbits and thus having no future. He omits the part where Israel very deliberately doesn't allow them any hope for statehood and never has allowed them any such hope. Far from it, Israel has created war, famine, ethnically cleansed the West Bank (thus also showing Gazans their guaranteed future), and propped up Hamas while undermining PA. None of this is because of Gazans having too many kids. Their predicament is caused by those with power and only those with power. Gazans are innocent, and if they were given a real chance, they'd be able to take it and build a future for themselves. Meanwhile KwarK: they fuck, so they fail. your adding stuff that isn't in the post your complaining about so that you can complain about it. Gaza is fucked and ending the war doesn't stop them from being fucked because Gaza is a refugee camp with the population density of London without the rest of England around it to provide for food. Its inhabited by 50% children and its population is growing rapidly only compounding the long term problems. The time to 'fix' Gaza and allow it to stand on its own was decades ago. No amount of will and drive is going to fix the situation because the math of that many people in 1 area without surrounding countryside doesn't add up unless we're rebuilding it into the first greenhouse skyscraper city in the world. 'We' in this thread have talked about this numerous times in the past, including after oct 7th. It has nothing to do with ethnicity. The simple numbers of people, land and age means Gaza is fucked beyond fucked no matter who lives there. There is no solution without massive geopolitical change, that many people cannot love on that amount of land without massive external dependancy. Its not that they fuck so they fail. They live in a failed state so they fuck. As everyone living in a failed state does. KwarK has every opportunity to clarify to make himself look better. He's known for making outrageous comments and doubling down on them instead of elaborating to make himself look good. You don't have to defend his racism in his stead. Also, Gazans can absolutely achieve statehood if they're allowed to do so. Their birth rate is irrelevant. It's an excuse to maintain the war. its not about statehood. I can make statehood if my home country would let me. That problem is becoming a functional state capable of taking care of its citizens. And Gaza in its current incarnation can't. Not because of racism or its people but because the numbers don't add up. And we've had this same discussion last year without you coming in shouting "omg racist".
The only reason why Gazans can't form a functioning state is Israel's administration.
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On July 19 2025 20:29 Magic Powers wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2025 19:36 Gorsameth wrote:On July 19 2025 19:31 Magic Powers wrote:On July 19 2025 19:17 Gorsameth wrote:On July 19 2025 18:54 Magic Powers wrote:On July 19 2025 18:34 Gorsameth wrote:On July 19 2025 16:48 Magic Powers wrote:On July 19 2025 07:06 KwarK wrote:On July 19 2025 07:02 Magic Powers wrote:On July 19 2025 04:12 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
You’re adding some super racist overtones there buddy. They breed like people. They’re not animals. Oh. Almost a moment of introspection from you. So close. You're the one calling them rabbits. You're the one doing that. My interpretation is completely fair. Unless you've never heard of that phrase. You should go back to school and study English. On July 19 2025 15:07 Nebuchad wrote:On July 19 2025 07:02 Magic Powers wrote:On July 19 2025 04:12 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
You’re adding some super racist overtones there buddy. They breed like people. They’re not animals. Oh. Almost a moment of introspection from you. So close. Nah he was just mocking you Oh I know KwarK is mocking me. It's just... he's revealing his own racism. Not mine. Gaza had a birthrate of ~3.3 in 2023 down from ~6 in 2000. This still puts them near the top 50 in the world. poor people without access to contraception procreate, those in conflict area's, perhaps counter intuitively, even more so (Somalia, Chad, Niger, Congo, Central African Republic are the top 5 all with a fertility rate of over 6). ourworldindata.orgThere is nothing racist about saying Palestinians procreate a lot, they do. Like (almost) everyone in somewhat similar positions around the world. The racist part comes later. KwarK follows with his conclusion that Gazans are hopeless based on them fucking like rabbits and thus having no future. He omits the part where Israel very deliberately doesn't allow them any hope for statehood and never has allowed them any such hope. Far from it, Israel has created war, famine, ethnically cleansed the West Bank (thus also showing Gazans their guaranteed future), and propped up Hamas while undermining PA. None of this is because of Gazans having too many kids. Their predicament is caused by those with power and only those with power. Gazans are innocent, and if they were given a real chance, they'd be able to take it and build a future for themselves. Meanwhile KwarK: they fuck, so they fail. your adding stuff that isn't in the post your complaining about so that you can complain about it. Gaza is fucked and ending the war doesn't stop them from being fucked because Gaza is a refugee camp with the population density of London without the rest of England around it to provide for food. Its inhabited by 50% children and its population is growing rapidly only compounding the long term problems. The time to 'fix' Gaza and allow it to stand on its own was decades ago. No amount of will and drive is going to fix the situation because the math of that many people in 1 area without surrounding countryside doesn't add up unless we're rebuilding it into the first greenhouse skyscraper city in the world. 'We' in this thread have talked about this numerous times in the past, including after oct 7th. It has nothing to do with ethnicity. The simple numbers of people, land and age means Gaza is fucked beyond fucked no matter who lives there. There is no solution without massive geopolitical change, that many people cannot love on that amount of land without massive external dependancy. Its not that they fuck so they fail. They live in a failed state so they fuck. As everyone living in a failed state does. KwarK has every opportunity to clarify to make himself look better. He's known for making outrageous comments and doubling down on them instead of elaborating to make himself look good. You don't have to defend his racism in his stead. Also, Gazans can absolutely achieve statehood if they're allowed to do so. Their birth rate is irrelevant. It's an excuse to maintain the war. its not about statehood. I can make statehood if my home country would let me. That problem is becoming a functional state capable of taking care of its citizens. And Gaza in its current incarnation can't. Not because of racism or its people but because the numbers don't add up. And we've had this same discussion last year without you coming in shouting "omg racist". The only reason why Gazans can't form a functioning state is Israel's administration. Israel is stopping Gaza from being a state, no one is disputing that.
But a functioning state? its 2 million people, half of whom are children living in the population density of a metropolitan city, where are they going to grow their food?
Stopping this war and giving Palestinians their own recognised sovereign state doesn't solve the crisis in Gaza, its obviously the first step but Gaza is unsustainable give the current land and the amount of people living there.
Which is Kwarks point.Decades of refusal to take difficult steps in resolving the refugee crisis have brought it to a point where it is now beyond resolution. That’s one of the most depressing things about the crisis.
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Northern Ireland25135 Posts
On July 19 2025 20:29 Magic Powers wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2025 19:36 Gorsameth wrote:On July 19 2025 19:31 Magic Powers wrote:On July 19 2025 19:17 Gorsameth wrote:On July 19 2025 18:54 Magic Powers wrote:On July 19 2025 18:34 Gorsameth wrote:On July 19 2025 16:48 Magic Powers wrote:On July 19 2025 07:06 KwarK wrote:On July 19 2025 07:02 Magic Powers wrote:On July 19 2025 04:12 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
You’re adding some super racist overtones there buddy. They breed like people. They’re not animals. Oh. Almost a moment of introspection from you. So close. You're the one calling them rabbits. You're the one doing that. My interpretation is completely fair. Unless you've never heard of that phrase. You should go back to school and study English. On July 19 2025 15:07 Nebuchad wrote:On July 19 2025 07:02 Magic Powers wrote:On July 19 2025 04:12 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
You’re adding some super racist overtones there buddy. They breed like people. They’re not animals. Oh. Almost a moment of introspection from you. So close. Nah he was just mocking you Oh I know KwarK is mocking me. It's just... he's revealing his own racism. Not mine. Gaza had a birthrate of ~3.3 in 2023 down from ~6 in 2000. This still puts them near the top 50 in the world. poor people without access to contraception procreate, those in conflict area's, perhaps counter intuitively, even more so (Somalia, Chad, Niger, Congo, Central African Republic are the top 5 all with a fertility rate of over 6). ourworldindata.orgThere is nothing racist about saying Palestinians procreate a lot, they do. Like (almost) everyone in somewhat similar positions around the world. The racist part comes later. KwarK follows with his conclusion that Gazans are hopeless based on them fucking like rabbits and thus having no future. He omits the part where Israel very deliberately doesn't allow them any hope for statehood and never has allowed them any such hope. Far from it, Israel has created war, famine, ethnically cleansed the West Bank (thus also showing Gazans their guaranteed future), and propped up Hamas while undermining PA. None of this is because of Gazans having too many kids. Their predicament is caused by those with power and only those with power. Gazans are innocent, and if they were given a real chance, they'd be able to take it and build a future for themselves. Meanwhile KwarK: they fuck, so they fail. your adding stuff that isn't in the post your complaining about so that you can complain about it. Gaza is fucked and ending the war doesn't stop them from being fucked because Gaza is a refugee camp with the population density of London without the rest of England around it to provide for food. Its inhabited by 50% children and its population is growing rapidly only compounding the long term problems. The time to 'fix' Gaza and allow it to stand on its own was decades ago. No amount of will and drive is going to fix the situation because the math of that many people in 1 area without surrounding countryside doesn't add up unless we're rebuilding it into the first greenhouse skyscraper city in the world. 'We' in this thread have talked about this numerous times in the past, including after oct 7th. It has nothing to do with ethnicity. The simple numbers of people, land and age means Gaza is fucked beyond fucked no matter who lives there. There is no solution without massive geopolitical change, that many people cannot love on that amount of land without massive external dependancy. Its not that they fuck so they fail. They live in a failed state so they fuck. As everyone living in a failed state does. KwarK has every opportunity to clarify to make himself look better. He's known for making outrageous comments and doubling down on them instead of elaborating to make himself look good. You don't have to defend his racism in his stead. Also, Gazans can absolutely achieve statehood if they're allowed to do so. Their birth rate is irrelevant. It's an excuse to maintain the war. its not about statehood. I can make statehood if my home country would let me. That problem is becoming a functional state capable of taking care of its citizens. And Gaza in its current incarnation can't. Not because of racism or its people but because the numbers don't add up. And we've had this same discussion last year without you coming in shouting "omg racist". The only reason why Gazans can't form a functioning state is Israel's administration.
It certainly doesn’t help to put it mildly, but the only reason?
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On July 19 2025 20:49 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2025 20:29 Magic Powers wrote:On July 19 2025 19:36 Gorsameth wrote:On July 19 2025 19:31 Magic Powers wrote:On July 19 2025 19:17 Gorsameth wrote:On July 19 2025 18:54 Magic Powers wrote:On July 19 2025 18:34 Gorsameth wrote:On July 19 2025 16:48 Magic Powers wrote:On July 19 2025 07:06 KwarK wrote:On July 19 2025 07:02 Magic Powers wrote:
[quote]
Oh. Almost a moment of introspection from you. So close. You're the one calling them rabbits. You're the one doing that. My interpretation is completely fair. Unless you've never heard of that phrase. You should go back to school and study English. On July 19 2025 15:07 Nebuchad wrote:On July 19 2025 07:02 Magic Powers wrote:
[quote]
Oh. Almost a moment of introspection from you. So close. Nah he was just mocking you Oh I know KwarK is mocking me. It's just... he's revealing his own racism. Not mine. Gaza had a birthrate of ~3.3 in 2023 down from ~6 in 2000. This still puts them near the top 50 in the world. poor people without access to contraception procreate, those in conflict area's, perhaps counter intuitively, even more so (Somalia, Chad, Niger, Congo, Central African Republic are the top 5 all with a fertility rate of over 6). ourworldindata.orgThere is nothing racist about saying Palestinians procreate a lot, they do. Like (almost) everyone in somewhat similar positions around the world. The racist part comes later. KwarK follows with his conclusion that Gazans are hopeless based on them fucking like rabbits and thus having no future. He omits the part where Israel very deliberately doesn't allow them any hope for statehood and never has allowed them any such hope. Far from it, Israel has created war, famine, ethnically cleansed the West Bank (thus also showing Gazans their guaranteed future), and propped up Hamas while undermining PA. None of this is because of Gazans having too many kids. Their predicament is caused by those with power and only those with power. Gazans are innocent, and if they were given a real chance, they'd be able to take it and build a future for themselves. Meanwhile KwarK: they fuck, so they fail. your adding stuff that isn't in the post your complaining about so that you can complain about it. Gaza is fucked and ending the war doesn't stop them from being fucked because Gaza is a refugee camp with the population density of London without the rest of England around it to provide for food. Its inhabited by 50% children and its population is growing rapidly only compounding the long term problems. The time to 'fix' Gaza and allow it to stand on its own was decades ago. No amount of will and drive is going to fix the situation because the math of that many people in 1 area without surrounding countryside doesn't add up unless we're rebuilding it into the first greenhouse skyscraper city in the world. 'We' in this thread have talked about this numerous times in the past, including after oct 7th. It has nothing to do with ethnicity. The simple numbers of people, land and age means Gaza is fucked beyond fucked no matter who lives there. There is no solution without massive geopolitical change, that many people cannot love on that amount of land without massive external dependancy. Its not that they fuck so they fail. They live in a failed state so they fuck. As everyone living in a failed state does. KwarK has every opportunity to clarify to make himself look better. He's known for making outrageous comments and doubling down on them instead of elaborating to make himself look good. You don't have to defend his racism in his stead. Also, Gazans can absolutely achieve statehood if they're allowed to do so. Their birth rate is irrelevant. It's an excuse to maintain the war. its not about statehood. I can make statehood if my home country would let me. That problem is becoming a functional state capable of taking care of its citizens. And Gaza in its current incarnation can't. Not because of racism or its people but because the numbers don't add up. And we've had this same discussion last year without you coming in shouting "omg racist". The only reason why Gazans can't form a functioning state is Israel's administration. It certainly doesn’t help to put it mildly, but the only reason?
Yes, literally the only reason. There are many examples of countries/areas recovering from war and oppression. The formation of South Korea comes to mind. Vietnam is another example. Fertility rates in those countries were higher than in Gaza today. And these are nowhere near the only examples, history is filled with war and it's also filled with recovery from war.
This idea that Gazans - the people - are somehow entirely unique and incapable of recovery is dripping with racist undertones.
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On July 19 2025 17:36 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2025 16:29 RvB wrote:On July 19 2025 09:35 Mohdoo wrote:On July 17 2025 01:44 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:On July 17 2025 01:24 Broetchenholer wrote:
Honestly, I do not have enough information on the situation in Syria to offer an opinion. But it feels phony, because the articles written about it dance around the issue like hell. They write what Israel does and what they say to legitimize the attacks but at no point are they telling the reader that this legitimizing action actually took place. Under each atrocity committed by the idf reported by Tagesschau, the reporting had a sentence that the current war was caused by the 7th attack, killing 1200, etc. Here, this factual but moralizing statement is missing, so I guess they are just really really unsure whether protecting the druze from Syria is bullshit. https://www.reddit.com/r/Syria/s/TkOW5rbm3lSummary from the Syrian subreddit. Thanks for posting this. I have consumed very little information other than this. Based on this, it feels totally insane for Israel to prioritize this little fringe group over keeping a good relationship with Syria. Very weird situation. Normally Israel's actions are clearly unethical but I have an easy time understanding why they view it as in their best interests. In this case, I truly don't understand how this is good bang for buck. That's a perfect example why Reddit is not a news source. The government forces executed, looted, and humiliated the Druze. The reason for Israel's intervention is not that complicated. They don't want Jihadists on their border. Additionally the Druze have strong representation in the IDF and Israeli politics. Apparently Al Sharaa thought the US and Israel were okay with the troop deployment to southern Syria. The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, a UK-based monitoring group, has said it has documented the killing of at least 594 people since Sunday, including 154 Druze civilians, of whom 83 were summarily killed by government forces, and three members of Bedouin tribes who were summarily killed by Druze fighters.
Syria's interim president said government forces had expelled "outlaw groups" in Suweida
Nayef, a Druze man whose name we have also changed, was also confronted with horrific scenes in Suweida.
"We are collecting bodies from the streets. We found bodies left outside houses, next to houses for two or three days," he told the BBC in a phone interview.
Despite being a government employee, Nayef lashed out in disbelief at what he saw as the government forces' brutality inside the city.
"They stormed neighbourhoods, selecting the houses that look wealthy. They looted these houses and then torched them. They sprayed unarmed civilians with bullets."
Videos circulating on social media appeared to support Nayef's allegations.
Footage shared on Facebook on Wednesday afternoon shows at least half-a-dozen men dressed in camouflage firing live rounds at a group of residents, who are kneeling on the sidewalk.
The UN human rights office said it had documented the killing of at least 13 people on Tuesday by armed men affiliated with the government who deliberately opened fire at a family gathering. On the same day, they reportedly summarily executed six men near their homes.
While bullets and shells rained down, Suweida residents were left wondering when help was coming.
But it never came.
Rima said she watched as security forces and foreign fighters entered her neighbourhood and later shot her neighbour in front of his mother.
"Is this the army and security forces who were supposed to come and protect us?" she asked. "People's livelihoods were stolen. Those who were killed were young and unarmed."
Other testimony we heard backed up Rima's claim. Those we spoke to said most of the fighters who entered Suweida and attacked civilians appeared to be Islamists.
One woman heard the fighters shouting "Allahu Akbar" (God is greatest) in her building, calling the Druze "infidels" and "pigs", and saying they were there to kill them.
Some of these fighters posted videos of themselves online humiliating men in Suweida, including cutting or shaving off the moustaches of Druze sheikhs. The moustaches are a symbol of Druze religious identity. www.bbc.com If it's from the Syrian subreddit it's of course partial but it's pretty factual for all that. No doubt Syrian security forces killed civilians. It's the middle east there are no good guys. However the fact that Israel and the druze has now done a 180 and turned the entire province over these horrible general security forces is a pretty clear indication they probably aren't the biggest problem. In the first 48 hours about half of the casulties were general security, a small amount of beduin fighters (18) and of the remaining part about 50-50 druze militia/civilians. I don't know the timeline but it's likely the bulk of civilians were killed after the initial ambush/fighting when reinforcements arrived. The reason the druze are now on the brink of annihilation is because they continued fucking with the local beduin tribe, notably taking women and children as hostages. I had no clue how the beduin worked but apparently they fight among themselves but are losely allied against outer threats. They also operate on old testament honor codes and are transnational in the middle east. Within 48 hours the druze were outnumbered between 5-10:1 (at least). The Syrian government takes a lot of flak for not being able to control their forces but at least they care about external pressure and they try. Israel have no chance stopping a group that doesn't care about the government or international relations at all. Arguably it would only make it worse since beduin tribes from Iraq Jordan, SA Qatar would likely join in. So here we are, 180 on what caused this shit in the first place and last call for the druze. They start figthing goverment security forces again it's probably over.
The Reddit post is very one sided and leaves out one of the main events of the conflict. Calling that partial is quite an understatement. It's not even the first time it happens. It looks almost exactly the same as the violence against the Alawites months ago.
Your claim that there has been a 180 is also false.
Druze leaders had offered to give up their weapons before the intervention. Neither are Bedouin from all over the middle east going to participate. Most of them are settled nowadays. They did nothing when Hamas massacred Bedouin.
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On July 19 2025 20:59 Magic Powers wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2025 20:49 WombaT wrote:On July 19 2025 20:29 Magic Powers wrote:On July 19 2025 19:36 Gorsameth wrote:On July 19 2025 19:31 Magic Powers wrote:On July 19 2025 19:17 Gorsameth wrote:On July 19 2025 18:54 Magic Powers wrote:On July 19 2025 18:34 Gorsameth wrote:On July 19 2025 16:48 Magic Powers wrote:On July 19 2025 07:06 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
You're the one calling them rabbits. You're the one doing that. My interpretation is completely fair. Unless you've never heard of that phrase. You should go back to school and study English. On July 19 2025 15:07 Nebuchad wrote:
[quote]
Nah he was just mocking you Oh I know KwarK is mocking me. It's just... he's revealing his own racism. Not mine. Gaza had a birthrate of ~3.3 in 2023 down from ~6 in 2000. This still puts them near the top 50 in the world. poor people without access to contraception procreate, those in conflict area's, perhaps counter intuitively, even more so (Somalia, Chad, Niger, Congo, Central African Republic are the top 5 all with a fertility rate of over 6). ourworldindata.orgThere is nothing racist about saying Palestinians procreate a lot, they do. Like (almost) everyone in somewhat similar positions around the world. The racist part comes later. KwarK follows with his conclusion that Gazans are hopeless based on them fucking like rabbits and thus having no future. He omits the part where Israel very deliberately doesn't allow them any hope for statehood and never has allowed them any such hope. Far from it, Israel has created war, famine, ethnically cleansed the West Bank (thus also showing Gazans their guaranteed future), and propped up Hamas while undermining PA. None of this is because of Gazans having too many kids. Their predicament is caused by those with power and only those with power. Gazans are innocent, and if they were given a real chance, they'd be able to take it and build a future for themselves. Meanwhile KwarK: they fuck, so they fail. your adding stuff that isn't in the post your complaining about so that you can complain about it. Gaza is fucked and ending the war doesn't stop them from being fucked because Gaza is a refugee camp with the population density of London without the rest of England around it to provide for food. Its inhabited by 50% children and its population is growing rapidly only compounding the long term problems. The time to 'fix' Gaza and allow it to stand on its own was decades ago. No amount of will and drive is going to fix the situation because the math of that many people in 1 area without surrounding countryside doesn't add up unless we're rebuilding it into the first greenhouse skyscraper city in the world. 'We' in this thread have talked about this numerous times in the past, including after oct 7th. It has nothing to do with ethnicity. The simple numbers of people, land and age means Gaza is fucked beyond fucked no matter who lives there. There is no solution without massive geopolitical change, that many people cannot love on that amount of land without massive external dependancy. Its not that they fuck so they fail. They live in a failed state so they fuck. As everyone living in a failed state does. KwarK has every opportunity to clarify to make himself look better. He's known for making outrageous comments and doubling down on them instead of elaborating to make himself look good. You don't have to defend his racism in his stead. Also, Gazans can absolutely achieve statehood if they're allowed to do so. Their birth rate is irrelevant. It's an excuse to maintain the war. its not about statehood. I can make statehood if my home country would let me. That problem is becoming a functional state capable of taking care of its citizens. And Gaza in its current incarnation can't. Not because of racism or its people but because the numbers don't add up. And we've had this same discussion last year without you coming in shouting "omg racist". The only reason why Gazans can't form a functioning state is Israel's administration. It certainly doesn’t help to put it mildly, but the only reason? Yes, literally the only reason. There are many examples of countries/areas recovering from war and oppression. The formation of South Korea comes to mind. Vietnam is another example. Fertility rates in those countries were higher than in Gaza today. And these are nowhere near the only examples, history is filled with war and it's also filled with recovery from war. This idea that Gazans - the people - are somehow entirely unique and incapable of recovery is dripping with racist undertones. Again, no one but you is saying the people of Gaza are uniquely incapable of recovery, they are saying the situation in Gaza is uniquely unrecoverable (and I'm not sure it's unique, human history is rather big and I don't know nearly enough of it)
South Korea has a population density of ~530 per km2. The Gaza strip is ~6.000 per km2.
Do you understand that a country with the population density of a major city, across the entire country, does not have the available land to grow anywhere close to the amount of food it needs to feed its population?
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Singapore is prosperous at about twice the size, it's just it didn't happen overnight.
Palestine's not just Gaza either, but also the West Bank. South Korea's population density is comparable to the West Bank, which was supposed to be part of the 2-state solution until Gaza and the West Bank's leadership diverged with Hamas taking over Gaza.
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On July 19 2025 21:40 oBlade wrote:
Singapore is prosperous at about twice the size, it's just it didn't happen overnight.
Palestine's not just Gaza either, but also the West Bank. South Korea's population density is comparable to the West Bank, which was supposed to be part of the 2-state solution until Gaza and the West Bank's leadership diverged with Hamas taking over Gaza.
Singapore has its location going for it. Being at one of the largest trade corridors globally and had basic infrastructure they could keep going for in that area.
What is the Palestinian geographic advantage they can play on?
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United States42638 Posts
On July 19 2025 20:47 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2025 20:29 Magic Powers wrote:On July 19 2025 19:36 Gorsameth wrote:On July 19 2025 19:31 Magic Powers wrote:On July 19 2025 19:17 Gorsameth wrote:On July 19 2025 18:54 Magic Powers wrote:On July 19 2025 18:34 Gorsameth wrote:On July 19 2025 16:48 Magic Powers wrote:On July 19 2025 07:06 KwarK wrote:On July 19 2025 07:02 Magic Powers wrote:
[quote]
Oh. Almost a moment of introspection from you. So close. You're the one calling them rabbits. You're the one doing that. My interpretation is completely fair. Unless you've never heard of that phrase. You should go back to school and study English. On July 19 2025 15:07 Nebuchad wrote:On July 19 2025 07:02 Magic Powers wrote:
[quote]
Oh. Almost a moment of introspection from you. So close. Nah he was just mocking you Oh I know KwarK is mocking me. It's just... he's revealing his own racism. Not mine. Gaza had a birthrate of ~3.3 in 2023 down from ~6 in 2000. This still puts them near the top 50 in the world. poor people without access to contraception procreate, those in conflict area's, perhaps counter intuitively, even more so (Somalia, Chad, Niger, Congo, Central African Republic are the top 5 all with a fertility rate of over 6). ourworldindata.orgThere is nothing racist about saying Palestinians procreate a lot, they do. Like (almost) everyone in somewhat similar positions around the world. The racist part comes later. KwarK follows with his conclusion that Gazans are hopeless based on them fucking like rabbits and thus having no future. He omits the part where Israel very deliberately doesn't allow them any hope for statehood and never has allowed them any such hope. Far from it, Israel has created war, famine, ethnically cleansed the West Bank (thus also showing Gazans their guaranteed future), and propped up Hamas while undermining PA. None of this is because of Gazans having too many kids. Their predicament is caused by those with power and only those with power. Gazans are innocent, and if they were given a real chance, they'd be able to take it and build a future for themselves. Meanwhile KwarK: they fuck, so they fail. your adding stuff that isn't in the post your complaining about so that you can complain about it. Gaza is fucked and ending the war doesn't stop them from being fucked because Gaza is a refugee camp with the population density of London without the rest of England around it to provide for food. Its inhabited by 50% children and its population is growing rapidly only compounding the long term problems. The time to 'fix' Gaza and allow it to stand on its own was decades ago. No amount of will and drive is going to fix the situation because the math of that many people in 1 area without surrounding countryside doesn't add up unless we're rebuilding it into the first greenhouse skyscraper city in the world. 'We' in this thread have talked about this numerous times in the past, including after oct 7th. It has nothing to do with ethnicity. The simple numbers of people, land and age means Gaza is fucked beyond fucked no matter who lives there. There is no solution without massive geopolitical change, that many people cannot love on that amount of land without massive external dependancy. Its not that they fuck so they fail. They live in a failed state so they fuck. As everyone living in a failed state does. KwarK has every opportunity to clarify to make himself look better. He's known for making outrageous comments and doubling down on them instead of elaborating to make himself look good. You don't have to defend his racism in his stead. Also, Gazans can absolutely achieve statehood if they're allowed to do so. Their birth rate is irrelevant. It's an excuse to maintain the war. its not about statehood. I can make statehood if my home country would let me. That problem is becoming a functional state capable of taking care of its citizens. And Gaza in its current incarnation can't. Not because of racism or its people but because the numbers don't add up. And we've had this same discussion last year without you coming in shouting "omg racist". The only reason why Gazans can't form a functioning state is Israel's administration. Israel is stopping Gaza from being a state, no one is disputing that. But a functioning state? its 2 million people, half of whom are children living in the population density of a metropolitan city, where are they going to grow their food? Stopping this war and giving Palestinians their own recognised sovereign state doesn't solve the crisis in Gaza, its obviously the first step but Gaza is unsustainable give the current land and the amount of people living there. Which is Kwarks point. Show nested quote +Decades of refusal to take difficult steps in resolving the refugee crisis have brought it to a point where it is now beyond resolution. That’s one of the most depressing things about the crisis.
I appreciate that you understood my post. However you’re wasting your time attempting to argue with someone who also understood my post but wants to call me a racist.
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United States42638 Posts
On July 19 2025 22:00 Yurie wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2025 21:40 oBlade wrote:
Singapore is prosperous at about twice the size, it's just it didn't happen overnight.
Palestine's not just Gaza either, but also the West Bank. South Korea's population density is comparable to the West Bank, which was supposed to be part of the 2-state solution until Gaza and the West Bank's leadership diverged with Hamas taking over Gaza. Singapore has its location going for it. Being at one of the largest trade corridors globally and had basic infrastructure they could keep going for in that area. What is the Palestinian geographic advantage they can play on?
Singapore also wasn’t airdropped with its current population. The economy grew and the city and population grew around it. If you’d dropped a million traumatized children on Singapore and expected them to build that city and economy to support themselves then you’d be disappointed.
But I agree that “well Singapore supports itself” is due to unique advantages that Gaza lacks.
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On July 19 2025 21:06 RvB wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2025 17:36 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:On July 19 2025 16:29 RvB wrote:On July 19 2025 09:35 Mohdoo wrote:On July 17 2025 01:44 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:On July 17 2025 01:24 Broetchenholer wrote:
Honestly, I do not have enough information on the situation in Syria to offer an opinion. But it feels phony, because the articles written about it dance around the issue like hell. They write what Israel does and what they say to legitimize the attacks but at no point are they telling the reader that this legitimizing action actually took place. Under each atrocity committed by the idf reported by Tagesschau, the reporting had a sentence that the current war was caused by the 7th attack, killing 1200, etc. Here, this factual but moralizing statement is missing, so I guess they are just really really unsure whether protecting the druze from Syria is bullshit. https://www.reddit.com/r/Syria/s/TkOW5rbm3lSummary from the Syrian subreddit. Thanks for posting this. I have consumed very little information other than this. Based on this, it feels totally insane for Israel to prioritize this little fringe group over keeping a good relationship with Syria. Very weird situation. Normally Israel's actions are clearly unethical but I have an easy time understanding why they view it as in their best interests. In this case, I truly don't understand how this is good bang for buck. That's a perfect example why Reddit is not a news source. The government forces executed, looted, and humiliated the Druze. The reason for Israel's intervention is not that complicated. They don't want Jihadists on their border. Additionally the Druze have strong representation in the IDF and Israeli politics. Apparently Al Sharaa thought the US and Israel were okay with the troop deployment to southern Syria. The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, a UK-based monitoring group, has said it has documented the killing of at least 594 people since Sunday, including 154 Druze civilians, of whom 83 were summarily killed by government forces, and three members of Bedouin tribes who were summarily killed by Druze fighters.
Syria's interim president said government forces had expelled "outlaw groups" in Suweida
Nayef, a Druze man whose name we have also changed, was also confronted with horrific scenes in Suweida.
"We are collecting bodies from the streets. We found bodies left outside houses, next to houses for two or three days," he told the BBC in a phone interview.
Despite being a government employee, Nayef lashed out in disbelief at what he saw as the government forces' brutality inside the city.
"They stormed neighbourhoods, selecting the houses that look wealthy. They looted these houses and then torched them. They sprayed unarmed civilians with bullets."
Videos circulating on social media appeared to support Nayef's allegations.
Footage shared on Facebook on Wednesday afternoon shows at least half-a-dozen men dressed in camouflage firing live rounds at a group of residents, who are kneeling on the sidewalk.
The UN human rights office said it had documented the killing of at least 13 people on Tuesday by armed men affiliated with the government who deliberately opened fire at a family gathering. On the same day, they reportedly summarily executed six men near their homes.
While bullets and shells rained down, Suweida residents were left wondering when help was coming.
But it never came.
Rima said she watched as security forces and foreign fighters entered her neighbourhood and later shot her neighbour in front of his mother.
"Is this the army and security forces who were supposed to come and protect us?" she asked. "People's livelihoods were stolen. Those who were killed were young and unarmed."
Other testimony we heard backed up Rima's claim. Those we spoke to said most of the fighters who entered Suweida and attacked civilians appeared to be Islamists.
One woman heard the fighters shouting "Allahu Akbar" (God is greatest) in her building, calling the Druze "infidels" and "pigs", and saying they were there to kill them.
Some of these fighters posted videos of themselves online humiliating men in Suweida, including cutting or shaving off the moustaches of Druze sheikhs. The moustaches are a symbol of Druze religious identity. www.bbc.com If it's from the Syrian subreddit it's of course partial but it's pretty factual for all that. No doubt Syrian security forces killed civilians. It's the middle east there are no good guys. However the fact that Israel and the druze has now done a 180 and turned the entire province over these horrible general security forces is a pretty clear indication they probably aren't the biggest problem. In the first 48 hours about half of the casulties were general security, a small amount of beduin fighters (18) and of the remaining part about 50-50 druze militia/civilians. I don't know the timeline but it's likely the bulk of civilians were killed after the initial ambush/fighting when reinforcements arrived. The reason the druze are now on the brink of annihilation is because they continued fucking with the local beduin tribe, notably taking women and children as hostages. I had no clue how the beduin worked but apparently they fight among themselves but are losely allied against outer threats. They also operate on old testament honor codes and are transnational in the middle east. Within 48 hours the druze were outnumbered between 5-10:1 (at least). The Syrian government takes a lot of flak for not being able to control their forces but at least they care about external pressure and they try. Israel have no chance stopping a group that doesn't care about the government or international relations at all. Arguably it would only make it worse since beduin tribes from Iraq Jordan, SA Qatar would likely join in. So here we are, 180 on what caused this shit in the first place and last call for the druze. They start figthing goverment security forces again it's probably over. The Reddit post is very one sided and leaves out one of the main events of the conflict. Calling that partial is quite an understatement. It's not even the first time it happens. It looks almost exactly the same as the violence against the Alawites months ago. Your claim that there has been a 180 is also false. Druze leaders had offered to give up their weapons before the intervention. Neither are Bedouin from all over the middle east going to participate. Most of them are settled nowadays. They did nothing when Hamas massacred Bedouin.
https://english.enabbaladi.net/archives/2025/03/details-of-damascus-as-suwayda-agreement/
Talking about this agreement?
The fundamental part was that security in the governate was to be handled by locals under the auspex of general security and that government forces would not enter the province.
Pretty far from anyone being ready to to hand over their guns.
This obviously didn't work. 2 months ago there were clashes among the beduin and druze and clashes when goverment forces tried to enter the province.
I guess you missed the part where Israel bombed security forces and Damascus to force them to leave 5 days ago when the same thing happened?
The policy from Israel and (some) druze was obviously no goverment forces in Suweyda.
Now both parts want goverment security to take control (and no 48 hours either). If that's not a 180 I don't know what is.
As for the beduin it doesn't appear to be any kind of formal agreement but all tribes in Syria mobilising seems to be rare so they obviously care about this.
No way they need backup but theorise that Israel does and air campaign that puts Gaza to shame I doubt their relatives on the other side of the border would just go with the flow.
Also it's pretty hard to distinguish tribal figthers in a car or house from regular people and I doubt Israel want to bomb all vehicles in the south and all the houses in occupied villages.
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On July 19 2025 21:10 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2025 20:59 Magic Powers wrote:On July 19 2025 20:49 WombaT wrote:On July 19 2025 20:29 Magic Powers wrote:On July 19 2025 19:36 Gorsameth wrote:On July 19 2025 19:31 Magic Powers wrote:On July 19 2025 19:17 Gorsameth wrote:On July 19 2025 18:54 Magic Powers wrote:On July 19 2025 18:34 Gorsameth wrote:On July 19 2025 16:48 Magic Powers wrote:
[quote]
You're the one doing that. My interpretation is completely fair. Unless you've never heard of that phrase. You should go back to school and study English.
[quote]
Oh I know KwarK is mocking me. It's just... he's revealing his own racism. Not mine. Gaza had a birthrate of ~3.3 in 2023 down from ~6 in 2000. This still puts them near the top 50 in the world. poor people without access to contraception procreate, those in conflict area's, perhaps counter intuitively, even more so (Somalia, Chad, Niger, Congo, Central African Republic are the top 5 all with a fertility rate of over 6). ourworldindata.orgThere is nothing racist about saying Palestinians procreate a lot, they do. Like (almost) everyone in somewhat similar positions around the world. The racist part comes later. KwarK follows with his conclusion that Gazans are hopeless based on them fucking like rabbits and thus having no future. He omits the part where Israel very deliberately doesn't allow them any hope for statehood and never has allowed them any such hope. Far from it, Israel has created war, famine, ethnically cleansed the West Bank (thus also showing Gazans their guaranteed future), and propped up Hamas while undermining PA. None of this is because of Gazans having too many kids. Their predicament is caused by those with power and only those with power. Gazans are innocent, and if they were given a real chance, they'd be able to take it and build a future for themselves. Meanwhile KwarK: they fuck, so they fail. your adding stuff that isn't in the post your complaining about so that you can complain about it. Gaza is fucked and ending the war doesn't stop them from being fucked because Gaza is a refugee camp with the population density of London without the rest of England around it to provide for food. Its inhabited by 50% children and its population is growing rapidly only compounding the long term problems. The time to 'fix' Gaza and allow it to stand on its own was decades ago. No amount of will and drive is going to fix the situation because the math of that many people in 1 area without surrounding countryside doesn't add up unless we're rebuilding it into the first greenhouse skyscraper city in the world. 'We' in this thread have talked about this numerous times in the past, including after oct 7th. It has nothing to do with ethnicity. The simple numbers of people, land and age means Gaza is fucked beyond fucked no matter who lives there. There is no solution without massive geopolitical change, that many people cannot love on that amount of land without massive external dependancy. Its not that they fuck so they fail. They live in a failed state so they fuck. As everyone living in a failed state does. KwarK has every opportunity to clarify to make himself look better. He's known for making outrageous comments and doubling down on them instead of elaborating to make himself look good. You don't have to defend his racism in his stead. Also, Gazans can absolutely achieve statehood if they're allowed to do so. Their birth rate is irrelevant. It's an excuse to maintain the war. its not about statehood. I can make statehood if my home country would let me. That problem is becoming a functional state capable of taking care of its citizens. And Gaza in its current incarnation can't. Not because of racism or its people but because the numbers don't add up. And we've had this same discussion last year without you coming in shouting "omg racist". The only reason why Gazans can't form a functioning state is Israel's administration. It certainly doesn’t help to put it mildly, but the only reason? Yes, literally the only reason. There are many examples of countries/areas recovering from war and oppression. The formation of South Korea comes to mind. Vietnam is another example. Fertility rates in those countries were higher than in Gaza today. And these are nowhere near the only examples, history is filled with war and it's also filled with recovery from war. This idea that Gazans - the people - are somehow entirely unique and incapable of recovery is dripping with racist undertones. Again, no one but you is saying the people of Gaza are uniquely incapable of recovery, they are saying the situation in Gaza is uniquely unrecoverable (and I'm not sure it's unique, human history is rather big and I don't know nearly enough of it) South Korea has a population density of ~530 per km2. The Gaza strip is ~6.000 per km2. Do you understand that a country with the population density of a major city, across the entire country, does not have the available land to grow anywhere close to the amount of food it needs to feed its population?
Sigh. Gazans don't require a life comparable to that of South Korea. They're not even asking for half of that.
A functioning state doesn't require perfection. It requires the will and the opportunity. End the war and the opportunity arises. Offer a road to Palestinian statehood and the will of the people can do its work.
You might be surprised how much a population that wants liberation can accomplish after being liberated. Humans are very good at this kind of nation building from ground up, that's why there are over 200 countries today. Gaza is not a unique exception for any reasons other than Israel's continued oppression of Palestinians.
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On July 19 2025 22:00 Yurie wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2025 21:40 oBlade wrote:
Singapore is prosperous at about twice the size, it's just it didn't happen overnight.
Palestine's not just Gaza either, but also the West Bank. South Korea's population density is comparable to the West Bank, which was supposed to be part of the 2-state solution until Gaza and the West Bank's leadership diverged with Hamas taking over Gaza. Singapore has its location going for it. Being at one of the largest trade corridors globally and had basic infrastructure they could keep going for in that area. What is the Palestinian geographic advantage they can play on?
Gaza is right next to the Mediterranean Sea, which is already a big plus. They can also gain access to a good amount of oil and natural gas. Geographically speaking Gaza is quite promising. The conspiracy theorist in me thinks Netanyahu is cleansing Palestinians because the Gaza strip would mean a great boost to Israel's economy.
Gazans also have the energy of a young demographic. Racists like to argue that their average age is a problem, but in reality their age is a huge plus. Their age means they can accomplish a lot with their energy. Their main disadvantage is a lack of education, but that can be remedied because at their age they're able and motivated to learn fairly quickly.
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