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On July 18 2025 20:36 pmp10 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2025 16:54 Jankisa wrote:
I want this killing to stop because i think all lives are worth the same, I also think that long term this is horrible for Israel because asymmetrical terrorism will be the response to this sooner or later, they aren't making Israel safer, they aren't making Druze safer, they aren't making the Middle east safer, and we will all suffer consequences, not just them. I think you know that few in Israel would agree with your take on security. Especially the terror response which already happened and resulted in maybe about a dozen dead Israelis since October 2023. That's nothing that would change Israel's trajectory of an aspiring regional power.
The level of terror that happened since October 7th is nothing compared to what can happen if and when the states that Israel is currently treating like they don't exist decide to sponsor and help plan terror attacks.
It's like people completely forgot first and second Intifadas.
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On July 18 2025 16:54 Jankisa wrote:
I have quoted posts from billyboy who was calling me a raging asshole, hypocrite and many more things, but sure, no one is attacking me.
A few pages back I pushed back on someone saying that what IDF did against Hesbolah and Hamas was all unjustified, providing specific reasons why it's not and why it actually contributes to security of Israel.
Just a few posts back I specified I think Hamas and Hesbolah, Jihadists and Islamists are horrible, how all I wish for is to get the warmongers at the head of Israel to get out.
None of that is good enough for you guys, because you see red when someone criticizes Israel, I think that they are conducting a genocide so I am now a caricature straw man you constructed in your heads.
I explained my stances quite a few times, I presented what I think yours are, and instead of explaining how they aren't all billyboy and you can do is say "well I didn't say exactly that, find where I did" and "why are you attacking me".
Even if we put genocide aside, the things that I 100 % believe to be true and which make me dislike posters who defend them, and you do defend them are:
1. Ethnic cleansing as a strategy for Gaza
2. The extend to which Israel is disrespecting sovereignty of their neighboring states
3. Complete disregard of Israel for civilian casualties
4. Disingenuous reasons for Israel's actions (not letting aid in, taking over distribution of aid, bombing Damascus over tribal conflict, bombing Iran under false pretenses)
In the end, it all boils down to one thing, dehumanization. Israel is acting as if thinks that one Israeli life is worth at least 50 Palestinian, Syrian, Iranian, Lebanese life.
They think that everything is justified in order for them to feel secure, from destroying 90 % of buildings in Gaza, to bombing and killing political prisoners in broad daylight in Iran, bombing a TV station, bombing a ministry of defense building with high ordinance in a center of a Syrian city, bombing churches, hospitals, ambulances, it just doesn't matter.
I want this killing to stop because i think all lives are worth the same, I also think that long term this is horrible for Israel because asymmetrical terrorism will be the response to this sooner or later, they aren't making Israel safer, they aren't making Druze safer, they aren't making the Middle east safer, and we will all suffer consequences, not just them.
They haven't accidentally turned you into a strawman, they've been doing the same thing for years in here.
You say hamas are bad, everyone agrees so no discussion happens. You say Israel are bad and all of a sudden there are a million asterisks and maybes and also you are an antisemite for saying Israel are bad without ever having a discussion about how Hamas are bad.
Don't let them trick you into thinking this just happens naturally, it's strategic posting.
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Ah, I try to not assign bad intentions to posters here, there are some obvious very bad faith people, but for most I take it as "seeing red" and only seeing the parts that confirm our biases (I'm definitely including myself here as well), for BB I can tell from other threads that he seems like a reasonable person, RJ I haven't seen much, but almost everyone here has issues with **some** things that Israel is doing, to me it seems like a matter of how much is too much, who is in the "right" to do what etc.
The biggest issue I have is the lack of understanding of Syrians, Palestinians, Iranians etc.
What is currently going on, where IDF bombed a Christian church and have been apologizing up and down, up to even having a call between Nethyanahu and the Pope, it just shows how little Israel cares about Muslims.
They have bombed and demolished so many of their Mosques and places of worship, they have never apologized to anyone, it just shows that they don't think of them as "normal" humans that can be talked with.
Ditto for Syrian government, they just bombed the shit out of their Ministry of defense building in the middle of Damascus, no one is even expecting for Nethyanahu to even try to talk to Syrian government, they are just bombing away with no attempts to talk to them.
Same goes for people here saying how Gaza should be relocated, how they "bred" too much there and now it's unsustainable and someone needs to fix it.
Not Israel of course, despite them corralling Palestinians in there for decades, they shouldn't be expected to have a plan for Gaza after the war, other then getting Palestinians out of there so they can feel safe.
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On July 18 2025 23:24 Jankisa wrote:
Ah, I try to not assign bad intentions to posters here, there are some obvious very bad faith people, but for most I take it as "seeing red" and only seeing the parts that confirm our biases (I'm definitely including myself here as well), for BB I can tell from other threads that he seems like a reasonable person, RJ I haven't seen much, but almost everyone here has issues with **some** things that Israel is doing, to me it seems like a matter of how much is too much, who is in the "right" to do what etc.
The biggest issue I have is the lack of understanding of Syrians, Palestinians, Iranians etc.
What is currently going on, where IDF bombed a Christian church and have been apologizing up and down, up to even having a call between Nethyanahu and the Pope, it just shows how little Israel cares about Muslims.
They have bombed and demolished so many of their Mosques and places of worship, they have never apologized to anyone, it just shows that they don't think of them as "normal" humans that can be talked with.
Ditto for Syrian government, they just bombed the shit out of their Ministry of defense building in the middle of Damascus, no one is even expecting for Nethyanahu to even try to talk to Syrian government, they are just bombing away with no attempts to talk to them.
Same goes for people here saying how Gaza should be relocated, how they "bred" too much there and now it's unsustainable and someone needs to fix it.
Not Israel of course, despite them corralling Palestinians in there for decades, they shouldn't be expected to have a plan for Gaza after the war, other then getting Palestinians out of there so they can feel safe.
Maybe I'm being overly cynical, but this pattern is a pattern.
Anyway enough moaning about other posters, I'm getting into that habit too much.
You're right about how differently Muslims are treated. Their ideology is just at odds with liberals and the right so for every rule there is an exception for Muslims where for one reason or another they don't count as people like everyone else.
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I don't even think there's a unified Muslim ideology. That's what's so fucked up.
The discourse kind of reverted back to 2003, 9/11 happened, let's bomb some Muslim countries. Then, 5 years and a huge clusterfuck later people started learning that Shia and Sunni are a thing, and now we are back at 2003, for a lot of people.
I remember myself, and I give young me a break because I was an edgy teenager, but when all the terrorist attacks happened in Europe I was firmly in the fuck all Muslims camp, stop them from coming here, deport them, they can't ever assimilate and they aren't welcome here.
Absolutely no regard as to why are they coming, what happened in Iraq, Syria, what caused ISIS to rise, just fuck them, they should go back where they came from we have no responsibility or reason to talk to them.
Now we (western countries) are doing the same thing we did with USA in 2003 with Israel, and in 5 years when this cycle of insane violence happens again it's going to be "why would the Muslims do this"...
It's as depressing as it is infuriating.
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On July 18 2025 20:36 pmp10 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2025 16:54 Jankisa wrote:
I want this killing to stop because i think all lives are worth the same, I also think that long term this is horrible for Israel because asymmetrical terrorism will be the response to this sooner or later, they aren't making Israel safer, they aren't making Druze safer, they aren't making the Middle east safer, and we will all suffer consequences, not just them. I think you know that few in Israel would agree with your take on security. Especially the terror response which already happened and resulted in maybe about a dozen dead Israelis since October 2023. That's nothing that would change Israel's trajectory of an aspiring regional power.
Israel is already a regional power, they don't need to aspire to it.
On October 8th - after having suffered the worst single terror attack in the country's history - Israel at the time was facing:
- A protracted war against a genocidal Jihadist terrorist group in Gaza that was holding 200+ people hostage
- A well-funded Hezbollah that was depopulating northern Israel with rocket fire
- The Houthis who were attacking shipping and also firing rockets at Israel
- An Iran that was going nuclear while supporting all these proxy terrorist groups
When a country with the population of Austria is in that position - it's not that difficult to understand why they are acting aggressively to ensure their own security. I challenge anyone to say their country would act differently under the same circumstances.
The results speak for themselves: Hamas is severely weakened and may be on the verge of collapse. Hezbollah is severely weakened and for the first time in a long time it looks like the Lebanese have a chance to rid themselves of that influence. The Houthis are still a problem but not nearly as much as they were previously. And Iran's military has been dealt a hugely damaging blow and their nuclear program set back immensely.
So yea, Israelis are tired of being surrounded by countries and terrorist groups that refuse to accept they have the right to exist in the region.
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On July 18 2025 23:37 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2025 23:24 Jankisa wrote:
Ah, I try to not assign bad intentions to posters here, there are some obvious very bad faith people, but for most I take it as "seeing red" and only seeing the parts that confirm our biases (I'm definitely including myself here as well), for BB I can tell from other threads that he seems like a reasonable person, RJ I haven't seen much, but almost everyone here has issues with **some** things that Israel is doing, to me it seems like a matter of how much is too much, who is in the "right" to do what etc.
The biggest issue I have is the lack of understanding of Syrians, Palestinians, Iranians etc.
What is currently going on, where IDF bombed a Christian church and have been apologizing up and down, up to even having a call between Nethyanahu and the Pope, it just shows how little Israel cares about Muslims.
They have bombed and demolished so many of their Mosques and places of worship, they have never apologized to anyone, it just shows that they don't think of them as "normal" humans that can be talked with.
Ditto for Syrian government, they just bombed the shit out of their Ministry of defense building in the middle of Damascus, no one is even expecting for Nethyanahu to even try to talk to Syrian government, they are just bombing away with no attempts to talk to them.
Same goes for people here saying how Gaza should be relocated, how they "bred" too much there and now it's unsustainable and someone needs to fix it.
Not Israel of course, despite them corralling Palestinians in there for decades, they shouldn't be expected to have a plan for Gaza after the war, other then getting Palestinians out of there so they can feel safe. Maybe I'm being overly cynical, but this pattern is a pattern. Anyway enough moaning about other posters, I'm getting into that habit too much. You're right about how differently Muslims are treated. Their ideology is just at odds with liberals and the right so for every rule there is an exception for Muslims where for one reason or another they don't count as people like everyone else.
This is important. Muslims, and especially Gazans, are seen as lesser. They won't be treated as equals who are able to build a future for themselves when given a real opportunity.
You can see this being reflected in comments such as this one:
On July 11 2025 00:56 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2025 00:42 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:On July 10 2025 23:46 KwarK wrote:
Gaza is not a viable home for the Gazans. The United States can take all of them then. Until that's the plan Gaza is their only home because no one else should have to step up and deal with Israels and USAs mess. If it's not a viable home it's Israels fault and responsibility. Fault doesn’t make a difference to the truth of it at this point. Let’s say Israel disappears overnight, Palestine is restored, the Palestinians all go back to the farmland owned by their great great grandfathers. How do you divide it up between the 30 3rd cousins who have to live on land that supported a single family? The population growth has been exponential, fueled by zero Malthusian constraints in a mixed sex refugee camp. Obviously Gazans have terrible lives but none of that stops them from fucking. The question of how to feed their growing family is different there because they don’t have jobs or income and their own food is equally insecure and dependent upon aid. Food insecurity is the default, either the aid shipments get through and feed all your children or they don’t and you all starve together but there’s nothing you can do to change that. Decades of refusal to take difficult steps in resolving the refugee crisis have brought it to a point where it is now beyond resolution. That’s one of the most depressing things about the crisis. Let’s say there’s a ceasefire and things go back to how they were a few years ago. What then? There isn’t a home for them to go back to at this point.
KwarK claims that Gazans show no restraint and breed like rabbits.
KwarK asks why Gazans have kids despite their horrible living conditions.
KwarK argues nothing can change food insecurity because Gazans have too many children.
KwarK claims a ceasefire can't possibly lead to a resolution because Gaza is rubble.
KwarK claims that Gazans won't adjust their behavior during peacetime to work towards prosperity. This is a baseless assumption that ignores the fact that Gazans have never been given a real shot at statehood. Evidence from other war-torn regions shows that people who've lived under severe violence and oppression can recover and build a future for themselves when they're being treated with respect and kindness, and not like a gang of criminals.
This is one of the reasons why I posted that video of the gentleman who tries to build a future for himself even during wartime and with severe hunger. The perception people have of Gazans is wrong. They're 99% like the people in this thread. Completely normal people.
Pardon me, let me restate that. Gazans may be a lot more normal than the people in this thread.
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On July 19 2025 01:11 RJGooner wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2025 20:36 pmp10 wrote:On July 18 2025 16:54 Jankisa wrote:
I want this killing to stop because i think all lives are worth the same, I also think that long term this is horrible for Israel because asymmetrical terrorism will be the response to this sooner or later, they aren't making Israel safer, they aren't making Druze safer, they aren't making the Middle east safer, and we will all suffer consequences, not just them. I think you know that few in Israel would agree with your take on security. Especially the terror response which already happened and resulted in maybe about a dozen dead Israelis since October 2023. That's nothing that would change Israel's trajectory of an aspiring regional power. Israel is already a regional power, they don't need to aspire to it. On October 8th - after having suffered the worst single terror attack in the country's history - Israel at the time was facing: - A protracted war against a genocidal Jihadist terrorist group in Gaza that was holding 200+ people hostage - A well-funded Hezbollah that was depopulating northern Israel with rocket fire - The Houthis who were attacking shipping and also firing rockets at Israel - An Iran that was going nuclear while supporting all these proxy terrorist groups When a country with the population of Austria is in that position - it's not that difficult to understand why they are acting aggressively to ensure their own security. I challenge anyone to say their country would act differently under the same circumstances. The results speak for themselves: Hamas is severely weakened and may be on the verge of collapse. Hezbollah is severely weakened and for the first time in a long time it looks like the Lebanese have a chance to rid themselves of that influence. The Houthis are still a problem but not nearly as much as they were previously. And Iran's military has been dealt a hugely damaging blow and their nuclear program set back immensely. So yea, Israelis are tired of being surrounded by countries and terrorist groups that refuse to accept they have the right to exist in the region.
Yeah, if you have a country of less than 10 million people, the size of New Jersey, surrounded on all sides, with no reliable "ally," or partner, in the immediate vicinity, it's not a coincidence they have never lost a war, and such wars usually last a few weeks at most. At those distances, and with those stakes, the situation is such that there's no other choice for them.
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On July 19 2025 01:36 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2025 01:11 RJGooner wrote:On July 18 2025 20:36 pmp10 wrote:On July 18 2025 16:54 Jankisa wrote:
I want this killing to stop because i think all lives are worth the same, I also think that long term this is horrible for Israel because asymmetrical terrorism will be the response to this sooner or later, they aren't making Israel safer, they aren't making Druze safer, they aren't making the Middle east safer, and we will all suffer consequences, not just them. I think you know that few in Israel would agree with your take on security. Especially the terror response which already happened and resulted in maybe about a dozen dead Israelis since October 2023. That's nothing that would change Israel's trajectory of an aspiring regional power. Israel is already a regional power, they don't need to aspire to it. On October 8th - after having suffered the worst single terror attack in the country's history - Israel at the time was facing: - A protracted war against a genocidal Jihadist terrorist group in Gaza that was holding 200+ people hostage - A well-funded Hezbollah that was depopulating northern Israel with rocket fire - The Houthis who were attacking shipping and also firing rockets at Israel - An Iran that was going nuclear while supporting all these proxy terrorist groups When a country with the population of Austria is in that position - it's not that difficult to understand why they are acting aggressively to ensure their own security. I challenge anyone to say their country would act differently under the same circumstances. The results speak for themselves: Hamas is severely weakened and may be on the verge of collapse. Hezbollah is severely weakened and for the first time in a long time it looks like the Lebanese have a chance to rid themselves of that influence. The Houthis are still a problem but not nearly as much as they were previously. And Iran's military has been dealt a hugely damaging blow and their nuclear program set back immensely. So yea, Israelis are tired of being surrounded by countries and terrorist groups that refuse to accept they have the right to exist in the region. Yeah, if you have a country of less than 10 million people, the size of New Jersey, surrounded on all sides, with no reliable "ally," or partner, in the immediate vicinity, it's not a coincidence they have never lost a war, and such wars usually last a few weeks at most. At those distances, and with those stakes, the situation is such that there's no other choice for them.
No reliable partner?
In general proximity of Israel, US has:
Troop Numbers: Approximately 40,000 to 50,000 U.S. troops are stationed across at least 19 sites.
Major Bases: Key bases include Al Udeid Air Base (Qatar), Camp Arifjan and Ali al-Salem Air Base (Kuwait), and bases in Bahrain (U.S. Navy's Fifth Fleet), UAE, Jordan, Iraq, and Syria.
Naval Assets: Two Aircraft Carrier Strike Groups (USS Carl Vinson and USS Nimitz) are operating in the region, along with numerous destroyers in the Arabian Sea, Red Sea, and Eastern Mediterranean.
Air Assets: The U.S. has deployed a variety of fighter jets (F-15s, F-16s, F-22s, F-35s), bombers (B-2, B-52 at Diego Garcia), and a substantial number of refueling aircraft (KC-135, KC-46) to support air operations and extend range. Surveillance drones and AWACS are also present.
Missile Defense: Patriot and THAAD missile defense systems are deployed, including two THAAD systems in Israel.
Just one of these carrier groups is 15k troops and 100+ aircraft. On top of that there's Jordanian and other ally states that helped Israel with missile defense.
US also bombed the fuck out of Houthis.
I don't even want to start with the amount of intelligence and satellite assets that US has in the ME.
They are the smaller guy who likes causing shit because they know that their MMA heavyweight champion is around and ready to fuck up anyone who looks at them wrongly.
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US bases in the Middle East largely provide security for US allies and/or serve as projections for the US to be able to surgically attack enemies of the US and their allies. Yet still I don't think the US has ever had any troops fight in an Israeli war, at all. They've committed way more troops to wars defending Saudi Arabia.
Nor have those aircraft you mentioned bombed Gaza. Nor any of Israel's other opponents during the various wars that cemented their existence, right? There were times in Israeli's history that literally handfuls of tanks were what made the difference between victory and defeat. Between existence and the alternative. US was nowhere to be found.
The US bombed the Houthis, sure, and they also bombed Iranian nuclear sites, and they also destroyed ISIS in Iraq and Syria. This is because the Houthis interfere with shipping and ISIS were a global extremist threat and Iran's nuclear program (whether correctly calculated or not, this was the motivation). With the exception of some actions, these tend to benefit US interests and security first from the US's perspective. They happen to benefit other countries also. But the US hardly destroyed ISIS for Israel or something. No ISIS is good for Iraq. It's good for Turkey. It's good for Europe. Like if there's a guy on a crowded bus going apeshit, and you subdue him, it's largely independent from the fact that a few seats away was your friend who wears a little hat. It's because the guy was going apeshit.
Indirect support like arms, and the missile defense you mention, hasn't obviated the need to face security challenges. They tried to sit back, with the Iron Dome, in a strong defensive stance, after having given back Sinai and other land concessions. The terrorists answered by digging tunnels to Israel and invading via hundreds of low flying paracopters.
The MMA fighter appears to be sleeping most of the time. What you say is true on paper. There are also similar troop numbers and assets in Europe. They didn't succeed in preventing full scale war. The US would definitely respond swifter and at more scale now in a real emergency than they ever would have in the 60s/70s. But Israel tries night and day to stay one step ahead so nothing can ever get to that point. Because that's how high the stakes are.
Put it this way: We still have people attacking Israel despite the US. Who isn't attacking Israel now - because of the US umbrella - that should also be allowed to?
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Did I say US was bombing Gaza?
I specified how this works, glad that you agree on that part. It's not true on paper, it's just true.
Who is pressing the buttons on shooting these missiles down? Who is running the radars and SAM's, is it all AI and not the troops? Who is providing the intelligence data, who is running the refueling missions?
Every time Israel needed something they got it, AA rockets were redirected from Ukraine to Israel so they can keep on escalating without fear of any real reprisal.
None of those escalations were necessary.
I don't begrudge Israel for getting Hamas and Hesbolah leadership and their long and medium range capabilities, everything above that was and is unnecessary to keep their security.
In any case, I'm glad you went back on your very false statement that Israel has no reliable allies.
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United States42609 Posts
On July 19 2025 01:25 Magic Powers wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2025 23:37 Jockmcplop wrote:On July 18 2025 23:24 Jankisa wrote:
Ah, I try to not assign bad intentions to posters here, there are some obvious very bad faith people, but for most I take it as "seeing red" and only seeing the parts that confirm our biases (I'm definitely including myself here as well), for BB I can tell from other threads that he seems like a reasonable person, RJ I haven't seen much, but almost everyone here has issues with **some** things that Israel is doing, to me it seems like a matter of how much is too much, who is in the "right" to do what etc.
The biggest issue I have is the lack of understanding of Syrians, Palestinians, Iranians etc.
What is currently going on, where IDF bombed a Christian church and have been apologizing up and down, up to even having a call between Nethyanahu and the Pope, it just shows how little Israel cares about Muslims.
They have bombed and demolished so many of their Mosques and places of worship, they have never apologized to anyone, it just shows that they don't think of them as "normal" humans that can be talked with.
Ditto for Syrian government, they just bombed the shit out of their Ministry of defense building in the middle of Damascus, no one is even expecting for Nethyanahu to even try to talk to Syrian government, they are just bombing away with no attempts to talk to them.
Same goes for people here saying how Gaza should be relocated, how they "bred" too much there and now it's unsustainable and someone needs to fix it.
Not Israel of course, despite them corralling Palestinians in there for decades, they shouldn't be expected to have a plan for Gaza after the war, other then getting Palestinians out of there so they can feel safe. Maybe I'm being overly cynical, but this pattern is a pattern. Anyway enough moaning about other posters, I'm getting into that habit too much. You're right about how differently Muslims are treated. Their ideology is just at odds with liberals and the right so for every rule there is an exception for Muslims where for one reason or another they don't count as people like everyone else. This is important. Muslims, and especially Gazans, are seen as lesser. They won't be treated as equals who are able to build a future for themselves when given a real opportunity. You can see this being reflected in comments such as this one: Show nested quote +On July 11 2025 00:56 KwarK wrote:On July 11 2025 00:42 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:On July 10 2025 23:46 KwarK wrote:
Gaza is not a viable home for the Gazans. The United States can take all of them then. Until that's the plan Gaza is their only home because no one else should have to step up and deal with Israels and USAs mess. If it's not a viable home it's Israels fault and responsibility. Fault doesn’t make a difference to the truth of it at this point. Let’s say Israel disappears overnight, Palestine is restored, the Palestinians all go back to the farmland owned by their great great grandfathers. How do you divide it up between the 30 3rd cousins who have to live on land that supported a single family? The population growth has been exponential, fueled by zero Malthusian constraints in a mixed sex refugee camp. Obviously Gazans have terrible lives but none of that stops them from fucking. The question of how to feed their growing family is different there because they don’t have jobs or income and their own food is equally insecure and dependent upon aid. Food insecurity is the default, either the aid shipments get through and feed all your children or they don’t and you all starve together but there’s nothing you can do to change that. Decades of refusal to take difficult steps in resolving the refugee crisis have brought it to a point where it is now beyond resolution. That’s one of the most depressing things about the crisis. Let’s say there’s a ceasefire and things go back to how they were a few years ago. What then? There isn’t a home for them to go back to at this point. KwarK claims that Gazans show no restraint and breed like rabbits. KwarK asks why Gazans have kids despite their horrible living conditions. KwarK argues nothing can change food insecurity because Gazans have too many children. KwarK claims a ceasefire can't possibly lead to a resolution because Gaza is rubble. KwarK claims that Gazans won't adjust their behavior during peacetime to work towards prosperity. This is a baseless assumption that ignores the fact that Gazans have never been given a real shot at statehood. Evidence from other war-torn regions shows that people who've lived under severe violence and oppression can recover and build a future for themselves when they're being treated with respect and kindness, and not like a gang of criminals. This is one of the reasons why I posted that video of the gentleman who tries to build a future for himself even during wartime and with severe hunger. The perception people have of Gazans is wrong. They're 99% like the people in this thread. Completely normal people. Pardon me, let me restate that. Gazans may be a lot more normal than the people in this thread.
You’re adding some super racist overtones there buddy. They breed like people. They’re not animals.
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On July 18 2025 21:23 Jankisa wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2025 20:36 pmp10 wrote:On July 18 2025 16:54 Jankisa wrote:
I want this killing to stop because i think all lives are worth the same, I also think that long term this is horrible for Israel because asymmetrical terrorism will be the response to this sooner or later, they aren't making Israel safer, they aren't making Druze safer, they aren't making the Middle east safer, and we will all suffer consequences, not just them. I think you know that few in Israel would agree with your take on security. Especially the terror response which already happened and resulted in maybe about a dozen dead Israelis since October 2023. That's nothing that would change Israel's trajectory of an aspiring regional power. The level of terror that happened since October 7th is nothing compared to what can happen if and when the states that Israel is currently treating like they don't exist decide to sponsor and help plan terror attacks. It's like people completely forgot first and second Intifadas.
Intifadas were over a decade ago, before the walls were build that largely stopped suicide bombings.
I don't think Israel suffered any dead in terror bombings in many years.
To put it another way - if terror strikes were still at all effective, that's what Iran would invest in.
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On July 19 2025 03:18 Jankisa wrote:
Did I say US was bombing Gaza?
I didn't say, or imply, that you said they were. Look at words instead of thinking in vibes.
The point was the lions share, 99%, of Israeli security, is done by Israel and its military. The US could intentionally not give them Patriots and THAAD, and other arms and materiel support, and then there would be more dead Israelis and also probably more escalation that you hate in return. (Or also just charge market rates for arms.) Intelligence, shmintelligence. CIA couldn't find Adolf Eichmann and they couldn't put bombs in thousands of Hezbollah pagers and blow them up at the same time. They didn't know and weren't involved.
Edit:
You know, US intelligence somehow didn't tell them October 7th was happening either.
Anyway, this is what I mean by "on paper" - The personnel at the bases you refer to do not exist as a branch of the IDF. You can see here on what I call the Striped Blue Loch Ness Monster. While cute, most if it has very little to do with Israel. US presence in the Middle East defends the Gulf states (and their oil), the entire region from Iran by staring them down, and allows the flexibility and convenience to drone or send SEALs to any terrorist leader or hostage within minutes or hours. The lower bases keep an eye on Somalia too. Not a single soldier as far as I know has ever fought for Israel.
+ Show Spoiler +
The reason those 5 or so relevant nations don't try to blow up Israel these days is because they are tired of losing, and have rationally moved more towards peace and prosperity because of the need for cooperation due to interdependence. It's not as much to do with the troops stationed at bases around Nessie there. You can put them in the Israel column on paper, sure, but then you can also put the entire million soldiers of the US military there, on paper. Nonetheless, Israel's position is ever precarious, because it can't teleport those foreign soldiers instantly to the site of a paracopter attack or a terrorist tunnel incursion or what have you. The terrorists seem to attack despite the existence of the US troops on paper, or Israel has done a bad job of showing them the paper to make them discouraged from attacking as they should be, if they're rational like most terrorists.
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On July 19 2025 04:12 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2025 01:25 Magic Powers wrote:On July 18 2025 23:37 Jockmcplop wrote:On July 18 2025 23:24 Jankisa wrote:
Ah, I try to not assign bad intentions to posters here, there are some obvious very bad faith people, but for most I take it as "seeing red" and only seeing the parts that confirm our biases (I'm definitely including myself here as well), for BB I can tell from other threads that he seems like a reasonable person, RJ I haven't seen much, but almost everyone here has issues with **some** things that Israel is doing, to me it seems like a matter of how much is too much, who is in the "right" to do what etc.
The biggest issue I have is the lack of understanding of Syrians, Palestinians, Iranians etc.
What is currently going on, where IDF bombed a Christian church and have been apologizing up and down, up to even having a call between Nethyanahu and the Pope, it just shows how little Israel cares about Muslims.
They have bombed and demolished so many of their Mosques and places of worship, they have never apologized to anyone, it just shows that they don't think of them as "normal" humans that can be talked with.
Ditto for Syrian government, they just bombed the shit out of their Ministry of defense building in the middle of Damascus, no one is even expecting for Nethyanahu to even try to talk to Syrian government, they are just bombing away with no attempts to talk to them.
Same goes for people here saying how Gaza should be relocated, how they "bred" too much there and now it's unsustainable and someone needs to fix it.
Not Israel of course, despite them corralling Palestinians in there for decades, they shouldn't be expected to have a plan for Gaza after the war, other then getting Palestinians out of there so they can feel safe. Maybe I'm being overly cynical, but this pattern is a pattern. Anyway enough moaning about other posters, I'm getting into that habit too much. You're right about how differently Muslims are treated. Their ideology is just at odds with liberals and the right so for every rule there is an exception for Muslims where for one reason or another they don't count as people like everyone else. This is important. Muslims, and especially Gazans, are seen as lesser. They won't be treated as equals who are able to build a future for themselves when given a real opportunity. You can see this being reflected in comments such as this one: On July 11 2025 00:56 KwarK wrote:On July 11 2025 00:42 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:On July 10 2025 23:46 KwarK wrote:
Gaza is not a viable home for the Gazans. The United States can take all of them then. Until that's the plan Gaza is their only home because no one else should have to step up and deal with Israels and USAs mess. If it's not a viable home it's Israels fault and responsibility. Fault doesn’t make a difference to the truth of it at this point. Let’s say Israel disappears overnight, Palestine is restored, the Palestinians all go back to the farmland owned by their great great grandfathers. How do you divide it up between the 30 3rd cousins who have to live on land that supported a single family? The population growth has been exponential, fueled by zero Malthusian constraints in a mixed sex refugee camp. Obviously Gazans have terrible lives but none of that stops them from fucking. The question of how to feed their growing family is different there because they don’t have jobs or income and their own food is equally insecure and dependent upon aid. Food insecurity is the default, either the aid shipments get through and feed all your children or they don’t and you all starve together but there’s nothing you can do to change that. Decades of refusal to take difficult steps in resolving the refugee crisis have brought it to a point where it is now beyond resolution. That’s one of the most depressing things about the crisis. Let’s say there’s a ceasefire and things go back to how they were a few years ago. What then? There isn’t a home for them to go back to at this point. KwarK claims that Gazans show no restraint and breed like rabbits. KwarK asks why Gazans have kids despite their horrible living conditions. KwarK argues nothing can change food insecurity because Gazans have too many children. KwarK claims a ceasefire can't possibly lead to a resolution because Gaza is rubble. KwarK claims that Gazans won't adjust their behavior during peacetime to work towards prosperity. This is a baseless assumption that ignores the fact that Gazans have never been given a real shot at statehood. Evidence from other war-torn regions shows that people who've lived under severe violence and oppression can recover and build a future for themselves when they're being treated with respect and kindness, and not like a gang of criminals. This is one of the reasons why I posted that video of the gentleman who tries to build a future for himself even during wartime and with severe hunger. The perception people have of Gazans is wrong. They're 99% like the people in this thread. Completely normal people. Pardon me, let me restate that. Gazans may be a lot more normal than the people in this thread. You’re adding some super racist overtones there buddy. They breed like people. They’re not animals.
Oh. Almost a moment of introspection from you. So close.
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United States42609 Posts
On July 19 2025 07:02 Magic Powers wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2025 04:12 KwarK wrote:On July 19 2025 01:25 Magic Powers wrote:On July 18 2025 23:37 Jockmcplop wrote:On July 18 2025 23:24 Jankisa wrote:
Ah, I try to not assign bad intentions to posters here, there are some obvious very bad faith people, but for most I take it as "seeing red" and only seeing the parts that confirm our biases (I'm definitely including myself here as well), for BB I can tell from other threads that he seems like a reasonable person, RJ I haven't seen much, but almost everyone here has issues with **some** things that Israel is doing, to me it seems like a matter of how much is too much, who is in the "right" to do what etc.
The biggest issue I have is the lack of understanding of Syrians, Palestinians, Iranians etc.
What is currently going on, where IDF bombed a Christian church and have been apologizing up and down, up to even having a call between Nethyanahu and the Pope, it just shows how little Israel cares about Muslims.
They have bombed and demolished so many of their Mosques and places of worship, they have never apologized to anyone, it just shows that they don't think of them as "normal" humans that can be talked with.
Ditto for Syrian government, they just bombed the shit out of their Ministry of defense building in the middle of Damascus, no one is even expecting for Nethyanahu to even try to talk to Syrian government, they are just bombing away with no attempts to talk to them.
Same goes for people here saying how Gaza should be relocated, how they "bred" too much there and now it's unsustainable and someone needs to fix it.
Not Israel of course, despite them corralling Palestinians in there for decades, they shouldn't be expected to have a plan for Gaza after the war, other then getting Palestinians out of there so they can feel safe. Maybe I'm being overly cynical, but this pattern is a pattern. Anyway enough moaning about other posters, I'm getting into that habit too much. You're right about how differently Muslims are treated. Their ideology is just at odds with liberals and the right so for every rule there is an exception for Muslims where for one reason or another they don't count as people like everyone else. This is important. Muslims, and especially Gazans, are seen as lesser. They won't be treated as equals who are able to build a future for themselves when given a real opportunity. You can see this being reflected in comments such as this one: On July 11 2025 00:56 KwarK wrote:On July 11 2025 00:42 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:On July 10 2025 23:46 KwarK wrote:
Gaza is not a viable home for the Gazans. The United States can take all of them then. Until that's the plan Gaza is their only home because no one else should have to step up and deal with Israels and USAs mess. If it's not a viable home it's Israels fault and responsibility. Fault doesn’t make a difference to the truth of it at this point. Let’s say Israel disappears overnight, Palestine is restored, the Palestinians all go back to the farmland owned by their great great grandfathers. How do you divide it up between the 30 3rd cousins who have to live on land that supported a single family? The population growth has been exponential, fueled by zero Malthusian constraints in a mixed sex refugee camp. Obviously Gazans have terrible lives but none of that stops them from fucking. The question of how to feed their growing family is different there because they don’t have jobs or income and their own food is equally insecure and dependent upon aid. Food insecurity is the default, either the aid shipments get through and feed all your children or they don’t and you all starve together but there’s nothing you can do to change that. Decades of refusal to take difficult steps in resolving the refugee crisis have brought it to a point where it is now beyond resolution. That’s one of the most depressing things about the crisis. Let’s say there’s a ceasefire and things go back to how they were a few years ago. What then? There isn’t a home for them to go back to at this point. KwarK claims that Gazans show no restraint and breed like rabbits. KwarK asks why Gazans have kids despite their horrible living conditions. KwarK argues nothing can change food insecurity because Gazans have too many children. KwarK claims a ceasefire can't possibly lead to a resolution because Gaza is rubble. KwarK claims that Gazans won't adjust their behavior during peacetime to work towards prosperity. This is a baseless assumption that ignores the fact that Gazans have never been given a real shot at statehood. Evidence from other war-torn regions shows that people who've lived under severe violence and oppression can recover and build a future for themselves when they're being treated with respect and kindness, and not like a gang of criminals. This is one of the reasons why I posted that video of the gentleman who tries to build a future for himself even during wartime and with severe hunger. The perception people have of Gazans is wrong. They're 99% like the people in this thread. Completely normal people. Pardon me, let me restate that. Gazans may be a lot more normal than the people in this thread. You’re adding some super racist overtones there buddy. They breed like people. They’re not animals. Oh. Almost a moment of introspection from you. So close.
You're the one calling them rabbits.
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On July 17 2025 01:44 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2025 01:24 Broetchenholer wrote:
Honestly, I do not have enough information on the situation in Syria to offer an opinion. But it feels phony, because the articles written about it dance around the issue like hell. They write what Israel does and what they say to legitimize the attacks but at no point are they telling the reader that this legitimizing action actually took place. Under each atrocity committed by the idf reported by Tagesschau, the reporting had a sentence that the current war was caused by the 7th attack, killing 1200, etc. Here, this factual but moralizing statement is missing, so I guess they are just really really unsure whether protecting the druze from Syria is bullshit. https://www.reddit.com/r/Syria/s/TkOW5rbm3lSummary from the Syrian subreddit.
Thanks for posting this. I have consumed very little information other than this. Based on this, it feels totally insane for Israel to prioritize this little fringe group over keeping a good relationship with Syria. Very weird situation.
Normally Israel's actions are clearly unethical but I have an easy time understanding why they view it as in their best interests. In this case, I truly don't understand how this is good bang for buck.
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On July 19 2025 07:02 Magic Powers wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2025 04:12 KwarK wrote:On July 19 2025 01:25 Magic Powers wrote:On July 18 2025 23:37 Jockmcplop wrote:On July 18 2025 23:24 Jankisa wrote:
Ah, I try to not assign bad intentions to posters here, there are some obvious very bad faith people, but for most I take it as "seeing red" and only seeing the parts that confirm our biases (I'm definitely including myself here as well), for BB I can tell from other threads that he seems like a reasonable person, RJ I haven't seen much, but almost everyone here has issues with **some** things that Israel is doing, to me it seems like a matter of how much is too much, who is in the "right" to do what etc.
The biggest issue I have is the lack of understanding of Syrians, Palestinians, Iranians etc.
What is currently going on, where IDF bombed a Christian church and have been apologizing up and down, up to even having a call between Nethyanahu and the Pope, it just shows how little Israel cares about Muslims.
They have bombed and demolished so many of their Mosques and places of worship, they have never apologized to anyone, it just shows that they don't think of them as "normal" humans that can be talked with.
Ditto for Syrian government, they just bombed the shit out of their Ministry of defense building in the middle of Damascus, no one is even expecting for Nethyanahu to even try to talk to Syrian government, they are just bombing away with no attempts to talk to them.
Same goes for people here saying how Gaza should be relocated, how they "bred" too much there and now it's unsustainable and someone needs to fix it.
Not Israel of course, despite them corralling Palestinians in there for decades, they shouldn't be expected to have a plan for Gaza after the war, other then getting Palestinians out of there so they can feel safe. Maybe I'm being overly cynical, but this pattern is a pattern. Anyway enough moaning about other posters, I'm getting into that habit too much. You're right about how differently Muslims are treated. Their ideology is just at odds with liberals and the right so for every rule there is an exception for Muslims where for one reason or another they don't count as people like everyone else. This is important. Muslims, and especially Gazans, are seen as lesser. They won't be treated as equals who are able to build a future for themselves when given a real opportunity. You can see this being reflected in comments such as this one: On July 11 2025 00:56 KwarK wrote:On July 11 2025 00:42 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:On July 10 2025 23:46 KwarK wrote:
Gaza is not a viable home for the Gazans. The United States can take all of them then. Until that's the plan Gaza is their only home because no one else should have to step up and deal with Israels and USAs mess. If it's not a viable home it's Israels fault and responsibility. Fault doesn’t make a difference to the truth of it at this point. Let’s say Israel disappears overnight, Palestine is restored, the Palestinians all go back to the farmland owned by their great great grandfathers. How do you divide it up between the 30 3rd cousins who have to live on land that supported a single family? The population growth has been exponential, fueled by zero Malthusian constraints in a mixed sex refugee camp. Obviously Gazans have terrible lives but none of that stops them from fucking. The question of how to feed their growing family is different there because they don’t have jobs or income and their own food is equally insecure and dependent upon aid. Food insecurity is the default, either the aid shipments get through and feed all your children or they don’t and you all starve together but there’s nothing you can do to change that. Decades of refusal to take difficult steps in resolving the refugee crisis have brought it to a point where it is now beyond resolution. That’s one of the most depressing things about the crisis. Let’s say there’s a ceasefire and things go back to how they were a few years ago. What then? There isn’t a home for them to go back to at this point. KwarK claims that Gazans show no restraint and breed like rabbits. KwarK asks why Gazans have kids despite their horrible living conditions. KwarK argues nothing can change food insecurity because Gazans have too many children. KwarK claims a ceasefire can't possibly lead to a resolution because Gaza is rubble. KwarK claims that Gazans won't adjust their behavior during peacetime to work towards prosperity. This is a baseless assumption that ignores the fact that Gazans have never been given a real shot at statehood. Evidence from other war-torn regions shows that people who've lived under severe violence and oppression can recover and build a future for themselves when they're being treated with respect and kindness, and not like a gang of criminals. This is one of the reasons why I posted that video of the gentleman who tries to build a future for himself even during wartime and with severe hunger. The perception people have of Gazans is wrong. They're 99% like the people in this thread. Completely normal people. Pardon me, let me restate that. Gazans may be a lot more normal than the people in this thread. You’re adding some super racist overtones there buddy. They breed like people. They’re not animals. Oh. Almost a moment of introspection from you. So close.
Nah he was just mocking you
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On July 19 2025 09:35 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2025 01:44 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:On July 17 2025 01:24 Broetchenholer wrote:
Honestly, I do not have enough information on the situation in Syria to offer an opinion. But it feels phony, because the articles written about it dance around the issue like hell. They write what Israel does and what they say to legitimize the attacks but at no point are they telling the reader that this legitimizing action actually took place. Under each atrocity committed by the idf reported by Tagesschau, the reporting had a sentence that the current war was caused by the 7th attack, killing 1200, etc. Here, this factual but moralizing statement is missing, so I guess they are just really really unsure whether protecting the druze from Syria is bullshit. https://www.reddit.com/r/Syria/s/TkOW5rbm3lSummary from the Syrian subreddit. Thanks for posting this. I have consumed very little information other than this. Based on this, it feels totally insane for Israel to prioritize this little fringe group over keeping a good relationship with Syria. Very weird situation. Normally Israel's actions are clearly unethical but I have an easy time understanding why they view it as in their best interests. In this case, I truly don't understand how this is good bang for buck.
That's a perfect example why Reddit is not a news source. The government forces executed, looted, and humiliated the Druze. The reason for Israel's intervention is not that complicated. They don't want Jihadists on their border. Additionally the Druze have strong representation in the IDF and Israeli politics. Apparently Al Sharaa thought the US and Israel were okay with the troop deployment to southern Syria.
The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, a UK-based monitoring group, has said it has documented the killing of at least 594 people since Sunday, including 154 Druze civilians, of whom 83 were summarily killed by government forces, and three members of Bedouin tribes who were summarily killed by Druze fighters.
Syria's interim president said government forces had expelled "outlaw groups" in Suweida
Nayef, a Druze man whose name we have also changed, was also confronted with horrific scenes in Suweida.
"We are collecting bodies from the streets. We found bodies left outside houses, next to houses for two or three days," he told the BBC in a phone interview.
Despite being a government employee, Nayef lashed out in disbelief at what he saw as the government forces' brutality inside the city.
"They stormed neighbourhoods, selecting the houses that look wealthy. They looted these houses and then torched them. They sprayed unarmed civilians with bullets."
Videos circulating on social media appeared to support Nayef's allegations.
Footage shared on Facebook on Wednesday afternoon shows at least half-a-dozen men dressed in camouflage firing live rounds at a group of residents, who are kneeling on the sidewalk.
The UN human rights office said it had documented the killing of at least 13 people on Tuesday by armed men affiliated with the government who deliberately opened fire at a family gathering. On the same day, they reportedly summarily executed six men near their homes.
While bullets and shells rained down, Suweida residents were left wondering when help was coming.
But it never came.
Rima said she watched as security forces and foreign fighters entered her neighbourhood and later shot her neighbour in front of his mother.
"Is this the army and security forces who were supposed to come and protect us?" she asked. "People's livelihoods were stolen. Those who were killed were young and unarmed."
Other testimony we heard backed up Rima's claim. Those we spoke to said most of the fighters who entered Suweida and attacked civilians appeared to be Islamists.
One woman heard the fighters shouting "Allahu Akbar" (God is greatest) in her building, calling the Druze "infidels" and "pigs", and saying they were there to kill them.
Some of these fighters posted videos of themselves online humiliating men in Suweida, including cutting or shaving off the moustaches of Druze sheikhs. The moustaches are a symbol of Druze religious identity.
www.bbc.com
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On July 19 2025 07:06 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2025 07:02 Magic Powers wrote:On July 19 2025 04:12 KwarK wrote:On July 19 2025 01:25 Magic Powers wrote:On July 18 2025 23:37 Jockmcplop wrote:On July 18 2025 23:24 Jankisa wrote:
Ah, I try to not assign bad intentions to posters here, there are some obvious very bad faith people, but for most I take it as "seeing red" and only seeing the parts that confirm our biases (I'm definitely including myself here as well), for BB I can tell from other threads that he seems like a reasonable person, RJ I haven't seen much, but almost everyone here has issues with **some** things that Israel is doing, to me it seems like a matter of how much is too much, who is in the "right" to do what etc.
The biggest issue I have is the lack of understanding of Syrians, Palestinians, Iranians etc.
What is currently going on, where IDF bombed a Christian church and have been apologizing up and down, up to even having a call between Nethyanahu and the Pope, it just shows how little Israel cares about Muslims.
They have bombed and demolished so many of their Mosques and places of worship, they have never apologized to anyone, it just shows that they don't think of them as "normal" humans that can be talked with.
Ditto for Syrian government, they just bombed the shit out of their Ministry of defense building in the middle of Damascus, no one is even expecting for Nethyanahu to even try to talk to Syrian government, they are just bombing away with no attempts to talk to them.
Same goes for people here saying how Gaza should be relocated, how they "bred" too much there and now it's unsustainable and someone needs to fix it.
Not Israel of course, despite them corralling Palestinians in there for decades, they shouldn't be expected to have a plan for Gaza after the war, other then getting Palestinians out of there so they can feel safe. Maybe I'm being overly cynical, but this pattern is a pattern. Anyway enough moaning about other posters, I'm getting into that habit too much. You're right about how differently Muslims are treated. Their ideology is just at odds with liberals and the right so for every rule there is an exception for Muslims where for one reason or another they don't count as people like everyone else. This is important. Muslims, and especially Gazans, are seen as lesser. They won't be treated as equals who are able to build a future for themselves when given a real opportunity. You can see this being reflected in comments such as this one: On July 11 2025 00:56 KwarK wrote:On July 11 2025 00:42 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:On July 10 2025 23:46 KwarK wrote:
Gaza is not a viable home for the Gazans. The United States can take all of them then. Until that's the plan Gaza is their only home because no one else should have to step up and deal with Israels and USAs mess. If it's not a viable home it's Israels fault and responsibility. Fault doesn’t make a difference to the truth of it at this point. Let’s say Israel disappears overnight, Palestine is restored, the Palestinians all go back to the farmland owned by their great great grandfathers. How do you divide it up between the 30 3rd cousins who have to live on land that supported a single family? The population growth has been exponential, fueled by zero Malthusian constraints in a mixed sex refugee camp. Obviously Gazans have terrible lives but none of that stops them from fucking. The question of how to feed their growing family is different there because they don’t have jobs or income and their own food is equally insecure and dependent upon aid. Food insecurity is the default, either the aid shipments get through and feed all your children or they don’t and you all starve together but there’s nothing you can do to change that. Decades of refusal to take difficult steps in resolving the refugee crisis have brought it to a point where it is now beyond resolution. That’s one of the most depressing things about the crisis. Let’s say there’s a ceasefire and things go back to how they were a few years ago. What then? There isn’t a home for them to go back to at this point. KwarK claims that Gazans show no restraint and breed like rabbits. KwarK asks why Gazans have kids despite their horrible living conditions. KwarK argues nothing can change food insecurity because Gazans have too many children. KwarK claims a ceasefire can't possibly lead to a resolution because Gaza is rubble. KwarK claims that Gazans won't adjust their behavior during peacetime to work towards prosperity. This is a baseless assumption that ignores the fact that Gazans have never been given a real shot at statehood. Evidence from other war-torn regions shows that people who've lived under severe violence and oppression can recover and build a future for themselves when they're being treated with respect and kindness, and not like a gang of criminals. This is one of the reasons why I posted that video of the gentleman who tries to build a future for himself even during wartime and with severe hunger. The perception people have of Gazans is wrong. They're 99% like the people in this thread. Completely normal people. Pardon me, let me restate that. Gazans may be a lot more normal than the people in this thread. You’re adding some super racist overtones there buddy. They breed like people. They’re not animals. Oh. Almost a moment of introspection from you. So close. You're the one calling them rabbits.
You're the one doing that. My interpretation is completely fair. Unless you've never heard of that phrase. You should go back to school and study English.
On July 19 2025 15:07 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2025 07:02 Magic Powers wrote:On July 19 2025 04:12 KwarK wrote:On July 19 2025 01:25 Magic Powers wrote:On July 18 2025 23:37 Jockmcplop wrote:On July 18 2025 23:24 Jankisa wrote:
Ah, I try to not assign bad intentions to posters here, there are some obvious very bad faith people, but for most I take it as "seeing red" and only seeing the parts that confirm our biases (I'm definitely including myself here as well), for BB I can tell from other threads that he seems like a reasonable person, RJ I haven't seen much, but almost everyone here has issues with **some** things that Israel is doing, to me it seems like a matter of how much is too much, who is in the "right" to do what etc.
The biggest issue I have is the lack of understanding of Syrians, Palestinians, Iranians etc.
What is currently going on, where IDF bombed a Christian church and have been apologizing up and down, up to even having a call between Nethyanahu and the Pope, it just shows how little Israel cares about Muslims.
They have bombed and demolished so many of their Mosques and places of worship, they have never apologized to anyone, it just shows that they don't think of them as "normal" humans that can be talked with.
Ditto for Syrian government, they just bombed the shit out of their Ministry of defense building in the middle of Damascus, no one is even expecting for Nethyanahu to even try to talk to Syrian government, they are just bombing away with no attempts to talk to them.
Same goes for people here saying how Gaza should be relocated, how they "bred" too much there and now it's unsustainable and someone needs to fix it.
Not Israel of course, despite them corralling Palestinians in there for decades, they shouldn't be expected to have a plan for Gaza after the war, other then getting Palestinians out of there so they can feel safe. Maybe I'm being overly cynical, but this pattern is a pattern. Anyway enough moaning about other posters, I'm getting into that habit too much. You're right about how differently Muslims are treated. Their ideology is just at odds with liberals and the right so for every rule there is an exception for Muslims where for one reason or another they don't count as people like everyone else. This is important. Muslims, and especially Gazans, are seen as lesser. They won't be treated as equals who are able to build a future for themselves when given a real opportunity. You can see this being reflected in comments such as this one: On July 11 2025 00:56 KwarK wrote:On July 11 2025 00:42 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:On July 10 2025 23:46 KwarK wrote:
Gaza is not a viable home for the Gazans. The United States can take all of them then. Until that's the plan Gaza is their only home because no one else should have to step up and deal with Israels and USAs mess. If it's not a viable home it's Israels fault and responsibility. Fault doesn’t make a difference to the truth of it at this point. Let’s say Israel disappears overnight, Palestine is restored, the Palestinians all go back to the farmland owned by their great great grandfathers. How do you divide it up between the 30 3rd cousins who have to live on land that supported a single family? The population growth has been exponential, fueled by zero Malthusian constraints in a mixed sex refugee camp. Obviously Gazans have terrible lives but none of that stops them from fucking. The question of how to feed their growing family is different there because they don’t have jobs or income and their own food is equally insecure and dependent upon aid. Food insecurity is the default, either the aid shipments get through and feed all your children or they don’t and you all starve together but there’s nothing you can do to change that. Decades of refusal to take difficult steps in resolving the refugee crisis have brought it to a point where it is now beyond resolution. That’s one of the most depressing things about the crisis. Let’s say there’s a ceasefire and things go back to how they were a few years ago. What then? There isn’t a home for them to go back to at this point. KwarK claims that Gazans show no restraint and breed like rabbits. KwarK asks why Gazans have kids despite their horrible living conditions. KwarK argues nothing can change food insecurity because Gazans have too many children. KwarK claims a ceasefire can't possibly lead to a resolution because Gaza is rubble. KwarK claims that Gazans won't adjust their behavior during peacetime to work towards prosperity. This is a baseless assumption that ignores the fact that Gazans have never been given a real shot at statehood. Evidence from other war-torn regions shows that people who've lived under severe violence and oppression can recover and build a future for themselves when they're being treated with respect and kindness, and not like a gang of criminals. This is one of the reasons why I posted that video of the gentleman who tries to build a future for himself even during wartime and with severe hunger. The perception people have of Gazans is wrong. They're 99% like the people in this thread. Completely normal people. Pardon me, let me restate that. Gazans may be a lot more normal than the people in this thread. You’re adding some super racist overtones there buddy. They breed like people. They’re not animals. Oh. Almost a moment of introspection from you. So close. Nah he was just mocking you
Oh I know KwarK is mocking me. It's just... he's revealing his own racism. Not mine.
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EPT![[image loading]](https://i.ibb.co/MDRn9LSv/scotland.jpg)
