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NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
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On July 16 2025 23:54 Jankisa wrote:
So, how are we feeling about this, latest escalation?
I'll start, I fucking hate it, but that's not new, I have been firmly on the de-escalation train since about November 2023.
I guess, for me, the thing that bothers me the most is that Israel has absolute disregard for the well being of their neighbors, specifically their civilian populations. Why can't Syrian people, who now have a flawed government, but one that compared to Assad's seems like heaven have a respite from war and tragedy?
So Israel can have their "buffer"? Where is the line? Is there a line?
How fucked and feckless is EU to, despite it's best interests being stopping all of this wanton aggression from Israel they keep offering incredibly tepid criticism while they sell arms to them, and all that after the Syrian refugee crisis created incredible political turmoil all over the continent that is still ongoing.
The Israeli justifications are thinner and thinner, less believable by the day, in all cases, from Iranian nuclear program that only they deem as an emergency to now protecting a minority by bombing a sovereign capital and the presidential palace in it. For Gaza they aren't even trying to make up excuses and justifications, just "Hamas must be destroyed" on repeat and move on.
And then, when all of this shit blows up in their faces 2-5-10 years later it's another excuse for another round of escalations and aggression, jesus fuckign christ, I hope people of Israel (because obviously no one else is willing to stop them) can finally get out on the streets and get this mad fucking dog Nethanahu and his merry band of radicals out so some chance for peace exists.
I'd be careful what you say, Israel might declare war on you and bomb you for a few months.
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Honestly, I do not have enough information on the situation in Syria to offer an opinion. But it feels phony, because the articles written about it dance around the issue like hell. They write what Israel does and what they say to legitimize the attacks but at no point are they telling the reader that this legitimizing action actually took place. Under each atrocity committed by the idf reported by Tagesschau, the reporting had a sentence that the current war was caused by the 7th attack, killing 1200, etc. Here, this factual but moralizing statement is missing, so I guess they are just really really unsure whether protecting the druze from Syria is bullshit.
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Your utter inability to view whatever is happening in the world through anything other then the myopic "USA Bad" lens really tiring.
This is Israel doing shit, but unfortunately, you don't seem to understand that there are nations in the world that can fuck shit up on their own just fine without the "empires" being behind it. It's the same reason why you don't seem to understand that Ukraine can do a revolution on it's own and that Russia can have their own reasons for invasion that have nothing to do with the USA.
This is a thread about the situation in the ME, mostly about Palestine but all things related to Israel's expansionist bullshit, if you want to agitate with your edgy bullshit about USA you can do that in the USA politics thread.
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On July 17 2025 01:06 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2025 23:54 Jankisa wrote:
So, how are we feeling about this, latest escalation?
I'll start, I fucking hate it, but that's not new, I have been firmly on the de-escalation train since about November 2023.
I guess, for me, the thing that bothers me the most is that Israel has absolute disregard for the well being of their neighbors, specifically their civilian populations. Why can't Syrian people, who now have a flawed government, but one that compared to Assad's seems like heaven have a respite from war and tragedy?
So Israel can have their "buffer"? Where is the line? Is there a line?
How fucked and feckless is EU to, despite it's best interests being stopping all of this wanton aggression from Israel they keep offering incredibly tepid criticism while they sell arms to them, and all that after the Syrian refugee crisis created incredible political turmoil all over the continent that is still ongoing.
The Israeli justifications are thinner and thinner, less believable by the day, in all cases, from Iranian nuclear program that only they deem as an emergency to now protecting a minority by bombing a sovereign capital and the presidential palace in it. For Gaza they aren't even trying to make up excuses and justifications, just "Hamas must be destroyed" on repeat and move on.
And then, when all of this shit blows up in their faces 2-5-10 years later it's another excuse for another round of escalations and aggression, jesus fuckign christ, I hope people of Israel (because obviously no one else is willing to stop them) can finally get out on the streets and get this mad fucking dog Nethanahu and his merry band of radicals out so some chance for peace exists. I'd be careful what you say, Israel might declare war on you and bomb you for a few months.
Well, after these wild, vile anti-semitic rants they would be entirely justified, they do have the right to defend themselves, don't they?
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On July 17 2025 01:24 Broetchenholer wrote:
Honestly, I do not have enough information on the situation in Syria to offer an opinion. But it feels phony, because the articles written about it dance around the issue like hell. They write what Israel does and what they say to legitimize the attacks but at no point are they telling the reader that this legitimizing action actually took place. Under each atrocity committed by the idf reported by Tagesschau, the reporting had a sentence that the current war was caused by the 7th attack, killing 1200, etc. Here, this factual but moralizing statement is missing, so I guess they are just really really unsure whether protecting the druze from Syria is bullshit.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Syria/s/TkOW5rbm3l
Summary from the Syrian subreddit.
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On July 17 2025 01:32 Jankisa wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2025 00:12 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 16 2025 23:54 Jankisa wrote:So, how are we feeling about this, latest escalation? + Show Spoiler +I'll start, I fucking hate it, but that's not new, I have been firmly on the de-escalation train since about November 2023.
I guess, for me, the thing that bothers me the most is that Israel has absolute disregard for the well being of their neighbors, specifically their civilian populations. Why can't Syrian people, who now have a flawed government, but one that compared to Assad's seems like heaven have a respite from war and tragedy?
So Israel can have their "buffer"? Where is the line? Is there a line?
How fucked and feckless is EU to, despite it's best interests being stopping all of this wanton aggression from Israel they keep offering incredibly tepid criticism while they sell arms to them, and all that after the Syrian refugee crisis created incredible political turmoil all over the continent that is still ongoing.
The Israeli justifications are thinner and thinner, less believable by the day, in all cases, from Iranian nuclear program that only they deem as an emergency to now protecting a minority by bombing a sovereign capital and the presidential palace in it. For Gaza they aren't even trying to make up excuses and justifications, just "Hamas must be destroyed" on repeat and move on.
And then, when all of this shit blows up in their faces 2-5-10 years later it's another excuse for another round of escalations and aggression, jesus fuckign christ, I hope people of Israel (because obviously no one else is willing to stop them) can finally get out on the streets and get this mad fucking dog Nethanahu and his merry band of radicals out so some chance for peace exists. That Israel was intended to basically Manifest Destiny the Middle East into "civilization, democracy, and freedom" used to basically be open US policy, it seems it pretty much is again. I'd prefer to see some sort of "AmeriMaidan" at this point, but it's unclear what (if anything) will actually flip that switch for enough people in the US. + Show Spoiler +Your utter inability to view whatever is happening in the world through anything other then the myopic "USA Bad" lens really tiring. This is Israel doing shit, but unfortunately, you don't seem to understand that there are nations in the world that can fuck shit up on their own just fine without the "empires" being behind it. It + Show Spoiler +'s the same reason why you don't seem to understand that Ukraine can do a revolution on it's own and that Russia can have their own reasons for invasion that have nothing to do with the USA.
This is a thread about the situation in the ME, mostly about Palestine but all things related to Israel's expansionist bullshit, if you want to agitate with your edgy bullshit about USA you can do that in the USA politics thread .
I mean sure, but Israel's pretty dependent on the US (bipartisanly) providing both the diplomatic and military defenses that are enabling them to keep doing their "expansionist bullshit", aka their version of Manifest Destiny.
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United States44203 Posts
US aid to Israel is about 1/7th of its defence budget. If cut off it might change how Israel fights wars but it won’t change that Israel fights wars.
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On July 17 2025 02:50 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2025 01:32 Jankisa wrote:On July 17 2025 00:12 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 16 2025 23:54 Jankisa wrote:So, how are we feeling about this, latest escalation? + Show Spoiler +I'll start, I fucking hate it, but that's not new, I have been firmly on the de-escalation train since about November 2023.
I guess, for me, the thing that bothers me the most is that Israel has absolute disregard for the well being of their neighbors, specifically their civilian populations. Why can't Syrian people, who now have a flawed government, but one that compared to Assad's seems like heaven have a respite from war and tragedy?
So Israel can have their "buffer"? Where is the line? Is there a line?
How fucked and feckless is EU to, despite it's best interests being stopping all of this wanton aggression from Israel they keep offering incredibly tepid criticism while they sell arms to them, and all that after the Syrian refugee crisis created incredible political turmoil all over the continent that is still ongoing.
The Israeli justifications are thinner and thinner, less believable by the day, in all cases, from Iranian nuclear program that only they deem as an emergency to now protecting a minority by bombing a sovereign capital and the presidential palace in it. For Gaza they aren't even trying to make up excuses and justifications, just "Hamas must be destroyed" on repeat and move on.
And then, when all of this shit blows up in their faces 2-5-10 years later it's another excuse for another round of escalations and aggression, jesus fuckign christ, I hope people of Israel (because obviously no one else is willing to stop them) can finally get out on the streets and get this mad fucking dog Nethanahu and his merry band of radicals out so some chance for peace exists. That Israel was intended to basically Manifest Destiny the Middle East into "civilization, democracy, and freedom" used to basically be open US policy, it seems it pretty much is again. I'd prefer to see some sort of "AmeriMaidan" at this point, but it's unclear what (if anything) will actually flip that switch for enough people in the US. + Show Spoiler +Your utter inability to view whatever is happening in the world through anything other then the myopic "USA Bad" lens really tiring. This is Israel doing shit, but unfortunately, you don't seem to understand that there are nations in the world that can fuck shit up on their own just fine without the "empires" being behind it. It + Show Spoiler +'s the same reason why you don't seem to understand that Ukraine can do a revolution on it's own and that Russia can have their own reasons for invasion that have nothing to do with the USA.
This is a thread about the situation in the ME, mostly about Palestine but all things related to Israel's expansionist bullshit, if you want to agitate with your edgy bullshit about USA you can do that in the USA politics thread . I mean sure, but Israel's pretty dependent on the US (bipartisanly) providing both the diplomatic and military defenses that are enabling them to keep doing their "expansionist bullshit", aka their version of Manifest Destiny.
We (by that I mean everyone who is critical of Israel in this thread) all agree on that everyone should stop supplying weapons to Israel, my comment that you quoted talks about that, but in the context of Europe where I live.
There is absolutely no need to react to every escalatory thing that Israel does with "why would the USA do this".
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On July 17 2025 03:01 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2025 02:50 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 17 2025 01:32 Jankisa wrote:On July 17 2025 00:12 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 16 2025 23:54 Jankisa wrote:So, how are we feeling about this, latest escalation? + Show Spoiler +I'll start, I fucking hate it, but that's not new, I have been firmly on the de-escalation train since about November 2023.
I guess, for me, the thing that bothers me the most is that Israel has absolute disregard for the well being of their neighbors, specifically their civilian populations. Why can't Syrian people, who now have a flawed government, but one that compared to Assad's seems like heaven have a respite from war and tragedy?
So Israel can have their "buffer"? Where is the line? Is there a line?
How fucked and feckless is EU to, despite it's best interests being stopping all of this wanton aggression from Israel they keep offering incredibly tepid criticism while they sell arms to them, and all that after the Syrian refugee crisis created incredible political turmoil all over the continent that is still ongoing.
The Israeli justifications are thinner and thinner, less believable by the day, in all cases, from Iranian nuclear program that only they deem as an emergency to now protecting a minority by bombing a sovereign capital and the presidential palace in it. For Gaza they aren't even trying to make up excuses and justifications, just "Hamas must be destroyed" on repeat and move on.
And then, when all of this shit blows up in their faces 2-5-10 years later it's another excuse for another round of escalations and aggression, jesus fuckign christ, I hope people of Israel (because obviously no one else is willing to stop them) can finally get out on the streets and get this mad fucking dog Nethanahu and his merry band of radicals out so some chance for peace exists. That Israel was intended to basically Manifest Destiny the Middle East into "civilization, democracy, and freedom" used to basically be open US policy, it seems it pretty much is again. I'd prefer to see some sort of "AmeriMaidan" at this point, but it's unclear what (if anything) will actually flip that switch for enough people in the US. + Show Spoiler +Your utter inability to view whatever is happening in the world through anything other then the myopic "USA Bad" lens really tiring. This is Israel doing shit, but unfortunately, you don't seem to understand that there are nations in the world that can fuck shit up on their own just fine without the "empires" being behind it. It + Show Spoiler +'s the same reason why you don't seem to understand that Ukraine can do a revolution on it's own and that Russia can have their own reasons for invasion that have nothing to do with the USA.
This is a thread about the situation in the ME, mostly about Palestine but all things related to Israel's expansionist bullshit, if you want to agitate with your edgy bullshit about USA you can do that in the USA politics thread . I mean sure, but Israel's pretty dependent on the US (bipartisanly) providing both the diplomatic and military defenses that are enabling them to keep doing their "expansionist bullshit", aka their version of Manifest Destiny. US aid to Israel is about 1/7th of its defence budget. If cut off it might change how Israel fights wars but it won’t change that Israel fights wars. I mentioned the diplomatic defenses that prevent Israel from being sanctioned and such too.
As to the military defenses, it obviously goes beyond the dollars to the equipment itself. Not to mention the US assets repositioned to support/defend Israel. I don't think the figures you're using include a bill for the naval assets, or the missiles out of Iran the US shot down.
Without US support for the Iron Dome (and related missile defense systems), or US diplomatic cover, Israel would be in a very different position geopolitically.
The US's dreams/attempts of "democratizing" the ME also contributed to conditions conducive to Israel's expansionism.
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On July 17 2025 01:44 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2025 01:24 Broetchenholer wrote:
Honestly, I do not have enough information on the situation in Syria to offer an opinion. But it feels phony, because the articles written about it dance around the issue like hell. They write what Israel does and what they say to legitimize the attacks but at no point are they telling the reader that this legitimizing action actually took place. Under each atrocity committed by the idf reported by Tagesschau, the reporting had a sentence that the current war was caused by the 7th attack, killing 1200, etc. Here, this factual but moralizing statement is missing, so I guess they are just really really unsure whether protecting the druze from Syria is bullshit. https://www.reddit.com/r/Syria/s/TkOW5rbm3lSummary from the Syrian subreddit.
That post is pretty heavily discussed and certainly not neutral. I think the government forces have a lot of trouble to leave their religious zealot militia time behind them. Just as they were committing some atrocities in the alawit areas a few month back and the druze might rightfully fear letting them into their stronghold, especially if they were allied to Assad. It doesn't make the Israeli bombing any more legitimate though, if you don't care about Assad killing hundreds of thousands in the north of Syria but start bombing the new government as soon as "your people" are targeted, you are not a peacekeeper, you are an unmoral asshole.
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On July 17 2025 04:08 Broetchenholer wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2025 01:44 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:On July 17 2025 01:24 Broetchenholer wrote:
Honestly, I do not have enough information on the situation in Syria to offer an opinion. But it feels phony, because the articles written about it dance around the issue like hell. They write what Israel does and what they say to legitimize the attacks but at no point are they telling the reader that this legitimizing action actually took place. Under each atrocity committed by the idf reported by Tagesschau, the reporting had a sentence that the current war was caused by the 7th attack, killing 1200, etc. Here, this factual but moralizing statement is missing, so I guess they are just really really unsure whether protecting the druze from Syria is bullshit. https://www.reddit.com/r/Syria/s/TkOW5rbm3lSummary from the Syrian subreddit. That post is pretty heavily discussed and certainly not neutral. I think the government forces have a lot of trouble to leave their religious zealot militia time behind them. Just as they were committing some atrocities in the alawit areas a few month back and the druze might rightfully fear letting them into their stronghold, especially if they were allied to Assad. It doesn't make the Israeli bombing any more legitimate though, if you don't care about Assad killing hundreds of thousands in the north of Syria but start bombing the new government as soon as "your people" are targeted, you are not a peacekeeper, you are an unmoral asshole.
Sure, I said as much in my first post. The new government does not have control over all their forces.
However it's been 6 months and even if the situation on the ground is far from optimal it's pretty clear that the government is doing what they can and is doing quite well considering. This particular druze group has been a problem since day 1. The reddit post might be partial but most of the facts are true and I've seen the discussions over time.
What Israel is doing now is backing a rebel faction with air support (possibly other support too?). Why? Because they want the current government to fail.
100% if al-Hirji didn't have Israeli support they wouldn't be attacking security forces. The HTS (before they disbanded) didn't attack before Israels "red lines" and they haven't attacked the other druze factions either. It's not until the situation escalated locally that they had to try to step in and it wouldn't have if for example they could have secured the roads before.
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On July 17 2025 01:32 Jankisa wrote:
Your utter inability to view whatever is happening in the world through anything other then the myopic "USA Bad" lens really tiring.
This is Israel doing shit, but unfortunately, you don't seem to understand that there are nations in the world that can fuck shit up on their own just fine without the "empires" being behind it. It's the same reason why you don't seem to understand that Ukraine can do a revolution on it's own and that Russia can have their own reasons for invasion that have nothing to do with the USA.
This is a thread about the situation in the ME, mostly about Palestine but all things related to Israel's expansionist bullshit, if you want to agitate with your edgy bullshit about USA you can do that in the USA politics thread.
On this topic USA is bad, though, this is true. Israel would never be able to do what it's doing without US support.
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On July 17 2025 05:46 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2025 04:08 Broetchenholer wrote:On July 17 2025 01:44 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:On July 17 2025 01:24 Broetchenholer wrote:
Honestly, I do not have enough information on the situation in Syria to offer an opinion. But it feels phony, because the articles written about it dance around the issue like hell. They write what Israel does and what they say to legitimize the attacks but at no point are they telling the reader that this legitimizing action actually took place. Under each atrocity committed by the idf reported by Tagesschau, the reporting had a sentence that the current war was caused by the 7th attack, killing 1200, etc. Here, this factual but moralizing statement is missing, so I guess they are just really really unsure whether protecting the druze from Syria is bullshit. https://www.reddit.com/r/Syria/s/TkOW5rbm3lSummary from the Syrian subreddit. That post is pretty heavily discussed and certainly not neutral. I think the government forces have a lot of trouble to leave their religious zealot militia time behind them. Just as they were committing some atrocities in the alawit areas a few month back and the druze might rightfully fear letting them into their stronghold, especially if they were allied to Assad. It doesn't make the Israeli bombing any more legitimate though, if you don't care about Assad killing hundreds of thousands in the north of Syria but start bombing the new government as soon as "your people" are targeted, you are not a peacekeeper, you are an unmoral asshole. Sure, I said as much in my first post. The new government does not have control over all their forces. However it's been 6 months and even if the situation on the ground is far from optimal it's pretty clear that the government is doing what they can and is doing quite well considering. This particular druze group has been a problem since day 1. The reddit post might be partial but most of the facts are true and I've seen the discussions over time. What Israel is doing now is backing a rebel faction with air support (possibly other support too?). Why? Because they want the current government to fail. 100% if al-Hirji didn't have Israeli support they wouldn't be attacking security forces. The HTS (before they disbanded) didn't attack before Israels "red lines" and they haven't attacked the other druze factions either. It's not until the situation escalated locally that they had to try to step in and it wouldn't have if for example they could have secured the roads before.
I think the reason they are supporting them is to help control the routes into Lebanon from Iran to keep Hezbollah weakened. Since they took the mountain (I forget the name) the rockets going into Israel have almost stopped and I think that is also the reason that Hezbollah was unable to do anything when Israel attacked Iran.
@Broetchenholer well I agree that I do not think the IDF is supporting the Druze out of the kindness of their hearts, the situation now is completely different then when Assad had Syria. Hezbollah was a real threat right outside their boarder, Hamas was there to cause problems, Syria was supported by Russia including Russian bases (back when the world thought that was a big deal), Iran was full power as well. They now can do things with very little risk that before would have caused a massive war that at the very least would have damaged them greatly.
On July 17 2025 06:45 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2025 01:32 Jankisa wrote:
Your utter inability to view whatever is happening in the world through anything other then the myopic "USA Bad" lens really tiring.
This is Israel doing shit, but unfortunately, you don't seem to understand that there are nations in the world that can fuck shit up on their own just fine without the "empires" being behind it. It's the same reason why you don't seem to understand that Ukraine can do a revolution on it's own and that Russia can have their own reasons for invasion that have nothing to do with the USA.
This is a thread about the situation in the ME, mostly about Palestine but all things related to Israel's expansionist bullshit, if you want to agitate with your edgy bullshit about USA you can do that in the USA politics thread.
On this topic USA is bad, though, this is true. Israel would never be able to do what it's doing without US support.
Hell they might not even exist and Iran might control most of the Middle East by now.
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On July 17 2025 08:54 Billyboy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2025 05:46 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:On July 17 2025 04:08 Broetchenholer wrote:On July 17 2025 01:44 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:On July 17 2025 01:24 Broetchenholer wrote:
Honestly, I do not have enough information on the situation in Syria to offer an opinion. But it feels phony, because the articles written about it dance around the issue like hell. They write what Israel does and what they say to legitimize the attacks but at no point are they telling the reader that this legitimizing action actually took place. Under each atrocity committed by the idf reported by Tagesschau, the reporting had a sentence that the current war was caused by the 7th attack, killing 1200, etc. Here, this factual but moralizing statement is missing, so I guess they are just really really unsure whether protecting the druze from Syria is bullshit. https://www.reddit.com/r/Syria/s/TkOW5rbm3lSummary from the Syrian subreddit. That post is pretty heavily discussed and certainly not neutral. I think the government forces have a lot of trouble to leave their religious zealot militia time behind them. Just as they were committing some atrocities in the alawit areas a few month back and the druze might rightfully fear letting them into their stronghold, especially if they were allied to Assad. It doesn't make the Israeli bombing any more legitimate though, if you don't care about Assad killing hundreds of thousands in the north of Syria but start bombing the new government as soon as "your people" are targeted, you are not a peacekeeper, you are an unmoral asshole. Sure, I said as much in my first post. The new government does not have control over all their forces. However it's been 6 months and even if the situation on the ground is far from optimal it's pretty clear that the government is doing what they can and is doing quite well considering. This particular druze group has been a problem since day 1. The reddit post might be partial but most of the facts are true and I've seen the discussions over time. What Israel is doing now is backing a rebel faction with air support (possibly other support too?). Why? Because they want the current government to fail. 100% if al-Hirji didn't have Israeli support they wouldn't be attacking security forces. The HTS (before they disbanded) didn't attack before Israels "red lines" and they haven't attacked the other druze factions either. It's not until the situation escalated locally that they had to try to step in and it wouldn't have if for example they could have secured the roads before. I think the reason they are supporting them is to help control the routes into Lebanon from Iran to keep Hezbollah weakened. Since they took the mountain (I forget the name) the rockets going into Israel have almost stopped and I think that is also the reason that Hezbollah was unable to do anything when Israel attacked Iran. @Broetchenholer well I agree that I do not think the IDF is supporting the Druze out of the kindness of their hearts, the situation now is completely different then when Assad had Syria. Hezbollah was a real threat right outside their boarder, Hamas was there to cause problems, Syria was supported by Russia including Russian bases (back when the world thought that was a big deal), Iran was full power as well. They now can do things with very little risk that before would have caused a massive war that at the very least would have damaged them greatly. Show nested quote +On July 17 2025 06:45 Nebuchad wrote:On July 17 2025 01:32 Jankisa wrote:
Your utter inability to view whatever is happening in the world through anything other then the myopic "USA Bad" lens really tiring.
This is Israel doing shit, but unfortunately, you don't seem to understand that there are nations in the world that can fuck shit up on their own just fine without the "empires" being behind it. It's the same reason why you don't seem to understand that Ukraine can do a revolution on it's own and that Russia can have their own reasons for invasion that have nothing to do with the USA.
This is a thread about the situation in the ME, mostly about Palestine but all things related to Israel's expansionist bullshit, if you want to agitate with your edgy bullshit about USA you can do that in the USA politics thread.
On this topic USA is bad, though, this is true. Israel would never be able to do what it's doing without US support. Hell they might not even exist and Iran might control most of the Middle East by now.
The current government hates both Iran and Hezbollah and have done more than anyone to prevent weapons coming in from Iran.
You just want some reason to believe Israel is doing something for the right reason. Meanwhile you have the former MI6 boss on CNN stating that the reason Israel is doing this is to keep Syria weak and divided, the Israeli minister of national security today saying Al Shara should be killed and new airstrikes in Latakia (the coast, Alawite areas) which has absolutely nothing to do with the druze in the south.
And US intelligence saying that it doesn't seem like government forces are behind attacks on druze civilians.
Not even Israeli propaganda are mentioning weapons to Hezbollah because they are all in on the "we have to protect the druze" since it's a minority group that is well liked in Israel. Problem of course being most of them absolutely don't want more war and they support the new goverment.
Wake up.
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On July 17 2025 09:23 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2025 08:54 Billyboy wrote:On July 17 2025 05:46 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:On July 17 2025 04:08 Broetchenholer wrote:On July 17 2025 01:44 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:On July 17 2025 01:24 Broetchenholer wrote:
Honestly, I do not have enough information on the situation in Syria to offer an opinion. But it feels phony, because the articles written about it dance around the issue like hell. They write what Israel does and what they say to legitimize the attacks but at no point are they telling the reader that this legitimizing action actually took place. Under each atrocity committed by the idf reported by Tagesschau, the reporting had a sentence that the current war was caused by the 7th attack, killing 1200, etc. Here, this factual but moralizing statement is missing, so I guess they are just really really unsure whether protecting the druze from Syria is bullshit. https://www.reddit.com/r/Syria/s/TkOW5rbm3lSummary from the Syrian subreddit. That post is pretty heavily discussed and certainly not neutral. I think the government forces have a lot of trouble to leave their religious zealot militia time behind them. Just as they were committing some atrocities in the alawit areas a few month back and the druze might rightfully fear letting them into their stronghold, especially if they were allied to Assad. It doesn't make the Israeli bombing any more legitimate though, if you don't care about Assad killing hundreds of thousands in the north of Syria but start bombing the new government as soon as "your people" are targeted, you are not a peacekeeper, you are an unmoral asshole. Sure, I said as much in my first post. The new government does not have control over all their forces. However it's been 6 months and even if the situation on the ground is far from optimal it's pretty clear that the government is doing what they can and is doing quite well considering. This particular druze group has been a problem since day 1. The reddit post might be partial but most of the facts are true and I've seen the discussions over time. What Israel is doing now is backing a rebel faction with air support (possibly other support too?). Why? Because they want the current government to fail. 100% if al-Hirji didn't have Israeli support they wouldn't be attacking security forces. The HTS (before they disbanded) didn't attack before Israels "red lines" and they haven't attacked the other druze factions either. It's not until the situation escalated locally that they had to try to step in and it wouldn't have if for example they could have secured the roads before. I think the reason they are supporting them is to help control the routes into Lebanon from Iran to keep Hezbollah weakened. Since they took the mountain (I forget the name) the rockets going into Israel have almost stopped and I think that is also the reason that Hezbollah was unable to do anything when Israel attacked Iran. @Broetchenholer well I agree that I do not think the IDF is supporting the Druze out of the kindness of their hearts, the situation now is completely different then when Assad had Syria. Hezbollah was a real threat right outside their boarder, Hamas was there to cause problems, Syria was supported by Russia including Russian bases (back when the world thought that was a big deal), Iran was full power as well. They now can do things with very little risk that before would have caused a massive war that at the very least would have damaged them greatly. On July 17 2025 06:45 Nebuchad wrote:On July 17 2025 01:32 Jankisa wrote:
Your utter inability to view whatever is happening in the world through anything other then the myopic "USA Bad" lens really tiring.
This is Israel doing shit, but unfortunately, you don't seem to understand that there are nations in the world that can fuck shit up on their own just fine without the "empires" being behind it. It's the same reason why you don't seem to understand that Ukraine can do a revolution on it's own and that Russia can have their own reasons for invasion that have nothing to do with the USA.
This is a thread about the situation in the ME, mostly about Palestine but all things related to Israel's expansionist bullshit, if you want to agitate with your edgy bullshit about USA you can do that in the USA politics thread.
On this topic USA is bad, though, this is true. Israel would never be able to do what it's doing without US support. Hell they might not even exist and Iran might control most of the Middle East by now. The current government hates both Iran and Hezbollah and have done more than anyone to prevent weapons coming in from Iran. You just want some reason to believe Israel is doing something for the right reason. Meanwhile you have the former MI6 boss on CNN stating that the reason Israel is doing this is to keep Syria weak and divided, the Israeli minister of national security today saying Al Shara should be killed and new airstrikes in Latakia (the coast, Alawite areas) which has absolutely nothing to do with the druze in the south. And US intelligence saying that it doesn't seem like government forces are behind attacks on druze civilians. Not even Israeli propaganda are mentioning weapons to Hezbollah because they are all in on the "we have to protect the druze" since it's a minority group that is well liked in Israel. Problem of course being most of them absolutely don't want more war and they support the new goverment. Wake up.
Where did I say it was good? And I said "I think". So fuck you, I'm so sick of trying to talk to anyone and having to deal with kind of shitty reply.
Me: I agree that I do not think the IDF is supporting the Druze
ou: You just want some reason to believe Israel is doing something for the right reason.
The strawman are out of control.
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On July 17 2025 09:28 Billyboy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2025 09:23 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:On July 17 2025 08:54 Billyboy wrote:On July 17 2025 05:46 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:On July 17 2025 04:08 Broetchenholer wrote:On July 17 2025 01:44 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:On July 17 2025 01:24 Broetchenholer wrote:
Honestly, I do not have enough information on the situation in Syria to offer an opinion. But it feels phony, because the articles written about it dance around the issue like hell. They write what Israel does and what they say to legitimize the attacks but at no point are they telling the reader that this legitimizing action actually took place. Under each atrocity committed by the idf reported by Tagesschau, the reporting had a sentence that the current war was caused by the 7th attack, killing 1200, etc. Here, this factual but moralizing statement is missing, so I guess they are just really really unsure whether protecting the druze from Syria is bullshit. https://www.reddit.com/r/Syria/s/TkOW5rbm3lSummary from the Syrian subreddit. That post is pretty heavily discussed and certainly not neutral. I think the government forces have a lot of trouble to leave their religious zealot militia time behind them. Just as they were committing some atrocities in the alawit areas a few month back and the druze might rightfully fear letting them into their stronghold, especially if they were allied to Assad. It doesn't make the Israeli bombing any more legitimate though, if you don't care about Assad killing hundreds of thousands in the north of Syria but start bombing the new government as soon as "your people" are targeted, you are not a peacekeeper, you are an unmoral asshole. Sure, I said as much in my first post. The new government does not have control over all their forces. However it's been 6 months and even if the situation on the ground is far from optimal it's pretty clear that the government is doing what they can and is doing quite well considering. This particular druze group has been a problem since day 1. The reddit post might be partial but most of the facts are true and I've seen the discussions over time. What Israel is doing now is backing a rebel faction with air support (possibly other support too?). Why? Because they want the current government to fail. 100% if al-Hirji didn't have Israeli support they wouldn't be attacking security forces. The HTS (before they disbanded) didn't attack before Israels "red lines" and they haven't attacked the other druze factions either. It's not until the situation escalated locally that they had to try to step in and it wouldn't have if for example they could have secured the roads before. I think the reason they are supporting them is to help control the routes into Lebanon from Iran to keep Hezbollah weakened. Since they took the mountain (I forget the name) the rockets going into Israel have almost stopped and I think that is also the reason that Hezbollah was unable to do anything when Israel attacked Iran. @Broetchenholer well I agree that I do not think the IDF is supporting the Druze out of the kindness of their hearts, the situation now is completely different then when Assad had Syria. Hezbollah was a real threat right outside their boarder, Hamas was there to cause problems, Syria was supported by Russia including Russian bases (back when the world thought that was a big deal), Iran was full power as well. They now can do things with very little risk that before would have caused a massive war that at the very least would have damaged them greatly. On July 17 2025 06:45 Nebuchad wrote:On July 17 2025 01:32 Jankisa wrote:
Your utter inability to view whatever is happening in the world through anything other then the myopic "USA Bad" lens really tiring.
This is Israel doing shit, but unfortunately, you don't seem to understand that there are nations in the world that can fuck shit up on their own just fine without the "empires" being behind it. It's the same reason why you don't seem to understand that Ukraine can do a revolution on it's own and that Russia can have their own reasons for invasion that have nothing to do with the USA.
This is a thread about the situation in the ME, mostly about Palestine but all things related to Israel's expansionist bullshit, if you want to agitate with your edgy bullshit about USA you can do that in the USA politics thread.
On this topic USA is bad, though, this is true. Israel would never be able to do what it's doing without US support. Hell they might not even exist and Iran might control most of the Middle East by now. The current government hates both Iran and Hezbollah and have done more than anyone to prevent weapons coming in from Iran. You just want some reason to believe Israel is doing something for the right reason. Meanwhile you have the former MI6 boss on CNN stating that the reason Israel is doing this is to keep Syria weak and divided, the Israeli minister of national security today saying Al Shara should be killed and new airstrikes in Latakia (the coast, Alawite areas) which has absolutely nothing to do with the druze in the south. And US intelligence saying that it doesn't seem like government forces are behind attacks on druze civilians. Not even Israeli propaganda are mentioning weapons to Hezbollah because they are all in on the "we have to protect the druze" since it's a minority group that is well liked in Israel. Problem of course being most of them absolutely don't want more war and they support the new goverment. Wake up. Where did I say it was good? And I said "I think". So fuck you, I'm so sick of trying to talk to anyone and having to deal with kind of shitty reply. Me: ou: Show nested quote +You just want some reason to believe Israel is doing something for the right reason. The strawman are out of control.
Maybe if every time Israel does something escalatory you didn't come to this thread to explain to us how it's OK while offering no criticism of them people wouldn't point out that this is what you are doing?
You don't get to play lawyer for Nethyanahu's regime and then be outraged when people call you out. That's not a strawman, that's just people looking at what you do and pointing it out.
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On July 17 2025 15:52 Jankisa wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2025 09:28 Billyboy wrote:On July 17 2025 09:23 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:On July 17 2025 08:54 Billyboy wrote:On July 17 2025 05:46 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:On July 17 2025 04:08 Broetchenholer wrote:On July 17 2025 01:44 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:On July 17 2025 01:24 Broetchenholer wrote:
Honestly, I do not have enough information on the situation in Syria to offer an opinion. But it feels phony, because the articles written about it dance around the issue like hell. They write what Israel does and what they say to legitimize the attacks but at no point are they telling the reader that this legitimizing action actually took place. Under each atrocity committed by the idf reported by Tagesschau, the reporting had a sentence that the current war was caused by the 7th attack, killing 1200, etc. Here, this factual but moralizing statement is missing, so I guess they are just really really unsure whether protecting the druze from Syria is bullshit. https://www.reddit.com/r/Syria/s/TkOW5rbm3lSummary from the Syrian subreddit. That post is pretty heavily discussed and certainly not neutral. I think the government forces have a lot of trouble to leave their religious zealot militia time behind them. Just as they were committing some atrocities in the alawit areas a few month back and the druze might rightfully fear letting them into their stronghold, especially if they were allied to Assad. It doesn't make the Israeli bombing any more legitimate though, if you don't care about Assad killing hundreds of thousands in the north of Syria but start bombing the new government as soon as "your people" are targeted, you are not a peacekeeper, you are an unmoral asshole. Sure, I said as much in my first post. The new government does not have control over all their forces. However it's been 6 months and even if the situation on the ground is far from optimal it's pretty clear that the government is doing what they can and is doing quite well considering. This particular druze group has been a problem since day 1. The reddit post might be partial but most of the facts are true and I've seen the discussions over time. What Israel is doing now is backing a rebel faction with air support (possibly other support too?). Why? Because they want the current government to fail. 100% if al-Hirji didn't have Israeli support they wouldn't be attacking security forces. The HTS (before they disbanded) didn't attack before Israels "red lines" and they haven't attacked the other druze factions either. It's not until the situation escalated locally that they had to try to step in and it wouldn't have if for example they could have secured the roads before. I think the reason they are supporting them is to help control the routes into Lebanon from Iran to keep Hezbollah weakened. Since they took the mountain (I forget the name) the rockets going into Israel have almost stopped and I think that is also the reason that Hezbollah was unable to do anything when Israel attacked Iran. @Broetchenholer well I agree that I do not think the IDF is supporting the Druze out of the kindness of their hearts, the situation now is completely different then when Assad had Syria. Hezbollah was a real threat right outside their boarder, Hamas was there to cause problems, Syria was supported by Russia including Russian bases (back when the world thought that was a big deal), Iran was full power as well. They now can do things with very little risk that before would have caused a massive war that at the very least would have damaged them greatly. On July 17 2025 06:45 Nebuchad wrote:On July 17 2025 01:32 Jankisa wrote:
Your utter inability to view whatever is happening in the world through anything other then the myopic "USA Bad" lens really tiring.
This is Israel doing shit, but unfortunately, you don't seem to understand that there are nations in the world that can fuck shit up on their own just fine without the "empires" being behind it. It's the same reason why you don't seem to understand that Ukraine can do a revolution on it's own and that Russia can have their own reasons for invasion that have nothing to do with the USA.
This is a thread about the situation in the ME, mostly about Palestine but all things related to Israel's expansionist bullshit, if you want to agitate with your edgy bullshit about USA you can do that in the USA politics thread.
On this topic USA is bad, though, this is true. Israel would never be able to do what it's doing without US support. Hell they might not even exist and Iran might control most of the Middle East by now. The current government hates both Iran and Hezbollah and have done more than anyone to prevent weapons coming in from Iran. You just want some reason to believe Israel is doing something for the right reason. Meanwhile you have the former MI6 boss on CNN stating that the reason Israel is doing this is to keep Syria weak and divided, the Israeli minister of national security today saying Al Shara should be killed and new airstrikes in Latakia (the coast, Alawite areas) which has absolutely nothing to do with the druze in the south. And US intelligence saying that it doesn't seem like government forces are behind attacks on druze civilians. Not even Israeli propaganda are mentioning weapons to Hezbollah because they are all in on the "we have to protect the druze" since it's a minority group that is well liked in Israel. Problem of course being most of them absolutely don't want more war and they support the new goverment. Wake up. Where did I say it was good? And I said "I think". So fuck you, I'm so sick of trying to talk to anyone and having to deal with kind of shitty reply. Me: I agree that I do not think the IDF is supporting the Druze ou: You just want some reason to believe Israel is doing something for the right reason. The strawman are out of control. Maybe if every time Israel does something escalatory you didn't come to this thread to explain to us how it's OK while offering no criticism of them people wouldn't point out that this is what you are doing? You don't get to play lawyer for Nethyanahu's regime and then be outraged when people call you out. That's not a strawman, that's just people looking at what you do and pointing it out.
Go ahead and quote out the part where I explain it is OK? Oh wait again you can't.
MIGA is a perfect name for many people on this thread, so maybe the explanation from the other thread to the MAGA will work out. Things are not Binary all good or all bad. Israel can being doing something for more then one reason, when Cuddly says that they are doing it to keep Syria weak and I add other reasons they may be doing it that does not mean I'm arguing against the reasons he is stating. How you can tell is (it is not hard) is if I did disagree I would at some point in my post write, I don't think or no, or some other statement indicating that I disagreed.
Feel free to go back and read through some of my posts, I'm not passive aggressive and am quite willing to disagree openly and directly when I do. I do not even mind arguing. What I do have an issue with is people just straight up making up things and then arguing against those. I'm pretty sure I actually say enough that you all disagree with that it should not be hard to have real arguments if that is what you are after. You just might have to actually read what I write, think about it and respond to it.
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It's not hard to categorize people on this issue, you might think of yourself as neutral but your instincts are, every time, be it because of your media diet or inherent biases to, after some new developments like this one happen come here and provide explanations for Israel's actions that frame them as pragmatic and reasonable.
It's a pattern, another pattern is that you get very annoyed when people point this out.
My speculation is that's because deep down you feel that you are on the wrong side of history here and that's why calling you out on it gets such a strong emotional response.
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Very hard to get accurate news on exactly what's happening but there are a lot of talk (and videos/pictures) of executions and displacement of bedouins now that the government security forces were forced to withdraw.
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On July 17 2025 22:28 Jankisa wrote:
It's not hard to categorize people on this issue, you might think of yourself as neutral but your instincts are, every time, be it because of your media diet or inherent biases to, after some new developments like this one happen come here and provide explanations for Israel's actions that frame them as pragmatic and reasonable.
It's a pattern, another pattern is that you get very annoyed when people point this out.
My speculation is that's because deep down you feel that you are on the wrong side of history here and that's why calling you out on it gets such a strong emotional response.
That's kind of rich considering your posting history and that of some other people in this thread. You've already decided (wrongly, but we don't have to relitigate that) that Israel is committing a genocide in Gaza. If you think Israel is a genocidal state then of course your only instinct is to believe that literally every single action they do is unreasonable and/or nefarious.
There can be multiple reasons for doing things as Billyboy said. We don't fully know for sure of course, but it's quite possible that Israel struck Syria because A. Israel has a Druze community that is super patriotic and wants its brethren in Syria protected, and Israel is actually taking steps to do that and B. that Netanyahu wants to keep Syria weak and factionalized. I can agree with A while disagreeing with B. Others might think that neither applies or is a good thing and that's fine too. That's why this thread is a debate.
You are anything but neutral. Maybe examine your own biases first before psychoanalyzing people like Billyboy who are actually trying to treat this subject and the topic of broader Middle East geopolitics with the nuance they deserve.
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EPT
