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Norway28804 Posts
My understanding is that yes, Sorek's poll has higher numbers than other polls, but this is in large because Sorek's poll is a 'forced choice'-poll - there's no 'neutral' or 'don't know'-option, and in other polls (like Tel Aviv or aChord) where the numbers have been smaller (like 62%), those were options. So you can argue that a quarter of those 82% aren't really committed to it, but either way it seems like a clear majority.
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On July 10 2025 06:49 Liquid`Drone wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2025 06:33 Billyboy wrote:On July 10 2025 06:11 Liquid`Drone wrote:When 82% of people in Israel answer that they would like to expel everyone from Gaza in a poll, it would almost be more weird if it wasn't the desired policy of the government, too. ( I believe this is the original publishing of this poll, but you can find it many other places if you search for pennsylvania state poll israel gaza or something to that effect)This is the same poll that shows that 'A majority of 56 percent of Jews supported the "transfer (forced expulsion) of Arab citizens of Israel to other countries', and - indeed - explicitly genocidal and not just ethnic cleansy - 'when asked directly whether they agreed with the position that the IDF, "when conquering an enemy city, should act in a manner similar to the way the Israelites acted when they conquered Jericho under the leadership of Joshua, namely, to kill all its inhabitants?" nearly half, 47 percent, agreed.' If Afghanistan bordered on the USA what do you think a poll would have looked like after 9/11? Numbers have changed somewhat since october 7th, but 48% agreed and 46% disagreed that Arabs should be expelled or transferred from Israel even back in 2016. This question got support from 56% of the respondends in Sorek's poll -indicating that yes, there's a change, and regarding Gaza in particular I'm guessing the change is bigger, but the idea that Israel should be for Jews and all of Palestine should ideally be Israel isn't like, a new sentiment within the Israeli population.
So if it is not new then what is your point? Again you are stuck in the, they are so evil and powerful they are not influenced by the rule of law of the world and they are only not being more awful because they do not want to lose support of the west.
A bunch of the people in Gaza leaving, if it is actually voluntary and to somewhere better would be a huge win for those who want to. It is so incredibly fucked there that when you get past the things that sound nice and try to think about how they would actually work in practice you come quickly to a bunch of choices that are bad, worse and worse than that. It is a problem way bigger than Israel could ever solve, and being as though they have been in nonstop conflict with various factions and Gazans themselves since their existence it is illogical and quite frankly stupid to think that they should be the ones to sort it out.
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On July 10 2025 07:46 Billyboy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2025 06:49 Liquid`Drone wrote:On July 10 2025 06:33 Billyboy wrote:On July 10 2025 06:11 Liquid`Drone wrote:When 82% of people in Israel answer that they would like to expel everyone from Gaza in a poll, it would almost be more weird if it wasn't the desired policy of the government, too. ( I believe this is the original publishing of this poll, but you can find it many other places if you search for pennsylvania state poll israel gaza or something to that effect)This is the same poll that shows that 'A majority of 56 percent of Jews supported the "transfer (forced expulsion) of Arab citizens of Israel to other countries', and - indeed - explicitly genocidal and not just ethnic cleansy - 'when asked directly whether they agreed with the position that the IDF, "when conquering an enemy city, should act in a manner similar to the way the Israelites acted when they conquered Jericho under the leadership of Joshua, namely, to kill all its inhabitants?" nearly half, 47 percent, agreed.' If Afghanistan bordered on the USA what do you think a poll would have looked like after 9/11? Numbers have changed somewhat since october 7th, but 48% agreed and 46% disagreed that Arabs should be expelled or transferred from Israel even back in 2016. This question got support from 56% of the respondends in Sorek's poll -indicating that yes, there's a change, and regarding Gaza in particular I'm guessing the change is bigger, but the idea that Israel should be for Jews and all of Palestine should ideally be Israel isn't like, a new sentiment within the Israeli population. So if it is not new then what is your point? Again you are stuck in the, they are so evil and powerful they are not influenced by the rule of law of the world and they are only not being more awful because they do not want to lose support of the west. A bunch of the people in Gaza leaving, if it is actually voluntary and to somewhere better would be a huge win for those who want to. It is so incredibly fucked there that when you get past the things that sound nice and try to think about how they would actually work in practice you come quickly to a bunch of choices that are bad, worse and worse than that. It is a problem way bigger than Israel could ever solve, and being as though they have been in nonstop conflict with various factions and Gazans themselves since their existence it is illogical and quite frankly stupid to think that they should be the ones to sort it out.
It is also quite frankly stupid to think that Gazans should be the ones to sort this out. In fact that's more stupid than literally anything else. They have zero negotiative power with or without Hamas.
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To reply to RJ who is perplexed how could someone come to a conclusion that hostages are important to Nethyanahu:
Netanyahu: Return of hostages important, but war’s ‘supreme goal’ is victory over enemies
This, after the reports of his aide being arrested for leaking information and sabotaguing negotiations really pissed the families of hostages off, because when you say something like this you are basically giving a free hand to Hamas to kill them, since they don't really mean much to IDF, according to their leader.
As far as BillyBoy's incredibly obtuse statement where he knows how Gazans should be happy to be ethnically cleansed to somewhere else, I wonder how he'd react if I kept throwing bombs at his house for almost 2 years and then offered him a tent somewhere in a desert to relocate since "his house is clearly not safe", I'm sure he'd be supper happy and would consider that a big win!
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On July 10 2025 17:07 Magic Powers wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2025 07:46 Billyboy wrote:On July 10 2025 06:49 Liquid`Drone wrote:On July 10 2025 06:33 Billyboy wrote:On July 10 2025 06:11 Liquid`Drone wrote:When 82% of people in Israel answer that they would like to expel everyone from Gaza in a poll, it would almost be more weird if it wasn't the desired policy of the government, too. ( I believe this is the original publishing of this poll, but you can find it many other places if you search for pennsylvania state poll israel gaza or something to that effect)This is the same poll that shows that 'A majority of 56 percent of Jews supported the "transfer (forced expulsion) of Arab citizens of Israel to other countries', and - indeed - explicitly genocidal and not just ethnic cleansy - 'when asked directly whether they agreed with the position that the IDF, "when conquering an enemy city, should act in a manner similar to the way the Israelites acted when they conquered Jericho under the leadership of Joshua, namely, to kill all its inhabitants?" nearly half, 47 percent, agreed.' If Afghanistan bordered on the USA what do you think a poll would have looked like after 9/11? Numbers have changed somewhat since october 7th, but 48% agreed and 46% disagreed that Arabs should be expelled or transferred from Israel even back in 2016. This question got support from 56% of the respondends in Sorek's poll -indicating that yes, there's a change, and regarding Gaza in particular I'm guessing the change is bigger, but the idea that Israel should be for Jews and all of Palestine should ideally be Israel isn't like, a new sentiment within the Israeli population. So if it is not new then what is your point? Again you are stuck in the, they are so evil and powerful they are not influenced by the rule of law of the world and they are only not being more awful because they do not want to lose support of the west. A bunch of the people in Gaza leaving, if it is actually voluntary and to somewhere better would be a huge win for those who want to. It is so incredibly fucked there that when you get past the things that sound nice and try to think about how they would actually work in practice you come quickly to a bunch of choices that are bad, worse and worse than that. It is a problem way bigger than Israel could ever solve, and being as though they have been in nonstop conflict with various factions and Gazans themselves since their existence it is illogical and quite frankly stupid to think that they should be the ones to sort it out. It is also quite frankly stupid to think that Gazans should be the ones to sort this out. In fact that's more stupid than literally anything else. They have zero negotiative power with or without Hamas.
Totally agree, the Gazans have almost no agency and are the victims of the whole mess.
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On July 10 2025 18:05 Jankisa wrote:To reply to RJ who is perplexed how could someone come to a conclusion that hostages are important to Nethyanahu: Netanyahu: Return of hostages important, but war’s ‘supreme goal’ is victory over enemiesThis, after the reports of his aide being arrested for leaking information and sabotaguing negotiations really pissed the families of hostages off, because when you say something like this you are basically giving a free hand to Hamas to kill them, since they don't really mean much to IDF, according to their leader. As far as BillyBoy's incredibly obtuse statement where he knows how Gazans should be happy to be ethnically cleansed to somewhere else, I wonder how he'd react if I kept throwing bombs at his house for almost 2 years and then offered him a tent somewhere in a desert to relocate since "his house is clearly not safe", I'm sure he'd be supper happy and would consider that a big win!
That is not at all what I said, why go full asshole on me? It is so tiring. Do you really think everyone in Gaza wants to stay there? How many times do we here it is a large open air prison and you think no one wants to leave? Tons of them want what every human wants. What does sicken me is that people, who consider themselves the righteous ones, won't take the refugees because the Syrian ones cause the rise of the right and made it more difficult on them. Selfish self righteous cunts in my opinion.
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United States44033 Posts
On July 10 2025 22:36 Billyboy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2025 17:07 Magic Powers wrote:On July 10 2025 07:46 Billyboy wrote:On July 10 2025 06:49 Liquid`Drone wrote:On July 10 2025 06:33 Billyboy wrote:On July 10 2025 06:11 Liquid`Drone wrote:When 82% of people in Israel answer that they would like to expel everyone from Gaza in a poll, it would almost be more weird if it wasn't the desired policy of the government, too. ( I believe this is the original publishing of this poll, but you can find it many other places if you search for pennsylvania state poll israel gaza or something to that effect)This is the same poll that shows that 'A majority of 56 percent of Jews supported the "transfer (forced expulsion) of Arab citizens of Israel to other countries', and - indeed - explicitly genocidal and not just ethnic cleansy - 'when asked directly whether they agreed with the position that the IDF, "when conquering an enemy city, should act in a manner similar to the way the Israelites acted when they conquered Jericho under the leadership of Joshua, namely, to kill all its inhabitants?" nearly half, 47 percent, agreed.' If Afghanistan bordered on the USA what do you think a poll would have looked like after 9/11? Numbers have changed somewhat since october 7th, but 48% agreed and 46% disagreed that Arabs should be expelled or transferred from Israel even back in 2016. This question got support from 56% of the respondends in Sorek's poll -indicating that yes, there's a change, and regarding Gaza in particular I'm guessing the change is bigger, but the idea that Israel should be for Jews and all of Palestine should ideally be Israel isn't like, a new sentiment within the Israeli population. So if it is not new then what is your point? Again you are stuck in the, they are so evil and powerful they are not influenced by the rule of law of the world and they are only not being more awful because they do not want to lose support of the west. A bunch of the people in Gaza leaving, if it is actually voluntary and to somewhere better would be a huge win for those who want to. It is so incredibly fucked there that when you get past the things that sound nice and try to think about how they would actually work in practice you come quickly to a bunch of choices that are bad, worse and worse than that. It is a problem way bigger than Israel could ever solve, and being as though they have been in nonstop conflict with various factions and Gazans themselves since their existence it is illogical and quite frankly stupid to think that they should be the ones to sort it out. It is also quite frankly stupid to think that Gazans should be the ones to sort this out. In fact that's more stupid than literally anything else. They have zero negotiative power with or without Hamas. Totally agree, the Gazans have almost no agency and are the victims of the whole mess.
The Gazans outnumber Hamas.
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On July 10 2025 22:39 Billyboy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2025 18:05 Jankisa wrote:To reply to RJ who is perplexed how could someone come to a conclusion that hostages are important to Nethyanahu: Netanyahu: Return of hostages important, but war’s ‘supreme goal’ is victory over enemiesThis, after the reports of his aide being arrested for leaking information and sabotaguing negotiations really pissed the families of hostages off, because when you say something like this you are basically giving a free hand to Hamas to kill them, since they don't really mean much to IDF, according to their leader. As far as BillyBoy's incredibly obtuse statement where he knows how Gazans should be happy to be ethnically cleansed to somewhere else, I wonder how he'd react if I kept throwing bombs at his house for almost 2 years and then offered him a tent somewhere in a desert to relocate since "his house is clearly not safe", I'm sure he'd be supper happy and would consider that a big win! That is not at all what I said, why go full asshole on me? It is so tiring. Do you really think everyone in Gaza wants to stay there? How many times do we here it is a large open air prison and you think no one wants to leave? Tons of them want what every human wants. What does sicken me is that people, who consider themselves the righteous ones, won't take the refugees because the Syrian ones cause the rise of the right and made it more difficult on them. Selfish self righteous cunts in my opinion.
This is their home. This is the only place they have known. They have an absolute right to stay there. The reason why they might want to leave is because Israel through their policy of ethnic cleansing and genocide made it impossible for them to stay.
In a just world they would be provided reparations and their city would be rebuilt, what Israel is offering is to put them in a concentration camp.
What happened in Gaza is not the fault of Egypt or Jordan, or any of the other countries around them that are "supposed to take them because they are also brown".
The country that is the most complicit in the destruction of Gaza after Israel is the US, are you down with a plan for Israel and US to pay to relocate 2 million people to Texas?
As someone who's family was driven from their home which was subsequently looted and they were never able to return there I can tell you that the people who are selfish cunts in this hypothetical are people like you who both don't care about these people enough to be on board a humane solution which lets them stay in their home as well as calling for countries that had nothing to do with this whole fucking mess to take 2 million refugees because Israel decided that their security means flattening a city.
What is tiring is that you can't see that you went full asshole the moment that you decided that Israel is unimpeachable and
everyone else is responsible for fixing their mess.
Germany didn't fuck up Syria, neither did Turkey. It wasn't Lebanon or Jordan either. They most certainly didn't occupy Gaza in 1967 and they for sure didn't decide that a normal reaction to a terrorist attack that was only this successful because Israel's security forces were focused on taking more land in the West bank instead of protecting their citizens was to destroy or render uninhabitable 80 % + of buildings in a city of 2+ million while killing 60 + K people.
This is what you are defending and this is who you are explaining should shoulder the burden of fixing it, otherwise they are selfish cunts, gotcha, how very righteous of you.
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United States44033 Posts
Gaza is not a viable home for the Gazans.
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On July 10 2025 23:46 KwarK wrote:
Gaza is not a viable home for the Gazans.
The United States can take all of them then.
Until that's the plan Gaza is their only home because no one else should have to step up and deal with Israels and USAs mess.
If it's not a viable home it's Israels fault and responsibility.
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United States44033 Posts
On July 11 2025 00:42 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:The United States can take all of them then. Until that's the plan Gaza is their only home because no one else should have to step up and deal with Israels and USAs mess. If it's not a viable home it's Israels fault and responsibility.
Fault doesn’t make a difference to the truth of it at this point. Let’s say Israel disappears overnight, Palestine is restored, the Palestinians all go back to the farmland owned by their great great grandfathers. How do you divide it up between the 30 3rd cousins who have to live on land that supported a single family?
The population growth has been exponential, fueled by zero Malthusian constraints in a mixed sex refugee camp. Obviously Gazans have terrible lives but none of that stops them from fucking. The question of how to feed their growing family is different there because they don’t have jobs or income and their own food is equally insecure and dependent upon aid. Food insecurity is the default, either the aid shipments get through and feed all your children or they don’t and you all starve together but there’s nothing you can do to change that.
Decades of refusal to take difficult steps in resolving the refugee crisis have brought it to a point where it is now beyond resolution. That’s one of the most depressing things about the crisis. Let’s say there’s a ceasefire and things go back to how they were a few years ago. What then?
There isn’t a home for them to go back to at this point.
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On July 11 2025 00:42 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:The United States can take all of them then. Until that's the plan Gaza is their only home because no one else should have to step up and deal with Israels and USAs mess. If it's not a viable home it's Israels fault and responsibility.
KwarK's comment was definitely not at all intentionally inflammatory. All he did was speak factually correct facts and he'll be completely surprised to see even a slight amount of pushback let alone major criticism. KwarKsimplyspeakstruthTM. We don't understand because we're not enlightened.
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On July 10 2025 23:22 Jankisa wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2025 22:39 Billyboy wrote:On July 10 2025 18:05 Jankisa wrote:To reply to RJ who is perplexed how could someone come to a conclusion that hostages are important to Nethyanahu: Netanyahu: Return of hostages important, but war’s ‘supreme goal’ is victory over enemiesThis, after the reports of his aide being arrested for leaking information and sabotaguing negotiations really pissed the families of hostages off, because when you say something like this you are basically giving a free hand to Hamas to kill them, since they don't really mean much to IDF, according to their leader. As far as BillyBoy's incredibly obtuse statement where he knows how Gazans should be happy to be ethnically cleansed to somewhere else, I wonder how he'd react if I kept throwing bombs at his house for almost 2 years and then offered him a tent somewhere in a desert to relocate since "his house is clearly not safe", I'm sure he'd be supper happy and would consider that a big win! That is not at all what I said, why go full asshole on me? It is so tiring. Do you really think everyone in Gaza wants to stay there? How many times do we here it is a large open air prison and you think no one wants to leave? Tons of them want what every human wants. What does sicken me is that people, who consider themselves the righteous ones, won't take the refugees because the Syrian ones cause the rise of the right and made it more difficult on them. Selfish self righteous cunts in my opinion. This is their home. This is the only place they have known. They have an absolute right to stay there. The reason why they might want to leave is because Israel through their policy of ethnic cleansing and genocide made it impossible for them to stay. In a just world they would be provided reparations and their city would be rebuilt, what Israel is offering is to put them in a concentration camp. What happened in Gaza is not the fault of Egypt or Jordan, or any of the other countries around them that are "supposed to take them because they are also brown". The country that is the most complicit in the destruction of Gaza after Israel is the US, are you down with a plan for Israel and US to pay to relocate 2 million people to Texas? As someone who's family was driven from their home which was subsequently looted and they were never able to return there I can tell you that the people who are selfish cunts in this hypothetical are people like you who both don't care about these people enough to be on board a humane solution which lets them stay in their home as well as calling for countries that had nothing to do with this whole fucking mess to take 2 million refugees because Israel decided that their security means flattening a city. What is tiring is that you can't see that you went full asshole the moment that you decided that Israel is unimpeachable and
everyone else is responsible for fixing their mess. Germany didn't fuck up Syria, neither did Turkey. It wasn't Lebanon or Jordan either. They most certainly didn't occupy Gaza in 1967 and they for sure didn't decide that a normal reaction to a terrorist attack that was only this successful because Israel's security forces were focused on taking more land in the West bank instead of protecting their citizens was to destroy or render uninhabitable 80 % + of buildings in a city of 2+ million while killing 60 + K people. This is what you are defending and this is who you are explaining should shoulder the burden of fixing it, otherwise they are selfish cunts, gotcha, how very righteous of you.
I did not decide the bolded part, and for the 1000 time go try to find me saying it. I get that you have to say it because otherwise you would have to deal with what I'm actually saying and that is way harder, but it does not make it any less frustrating.
I'm also not suggesting that people should be forced to go, I'm just not some self righteous asshole that is forcing them to stay in a hell hole.
Everyone who decided it was a good idea to send all the Jews to Israel shares some of the responsibility along with all the assholes along the way that decided the best policy was to try to kill each other instead of getting along. But here we are and someone needs to start thinking about what is an actual go forward plan for the 6 million people living in various levels of hell.
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On July 11 2025 01:23 Billyboy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2025 23:22 Jankisa wrote:On July 10 2025 22:39 Billyboy wrote:On July 10 2025 18:05 Jankisa wrote:To reply to RJ who is perplexed how could someone come to a conclusion that hostages are important to Nethyanahu: Netanyahu: Return of hostages important, but war’s ‘supreme goal’ is victory over enemiesThis, after the reports of his aide being arrested for leaking information and sabotaguing negotiations really pissed the families of hostages off, because when you say something like this you are basically giving a free hand to Hamas to kill them, since they don't really mean much to IDF, according to their leader. As far as BillyBoy's incredibly obtuse statement where he knows how Gazans should be happy to be ethnically cleansed to somewhere else, I wonder how he'd react if I kept throwing bombs at his house for almost 2 years and then offered him a tent somewhere in a desert to relocate since "his house is clearly not safe", I'm sure he'd be supper happy and would consider that a big win! That is not at all what I said, why go full asshole on me? It is so tiring. Do you really think everyone in Gaza wants to stay there? How many times do we here it is a large open air prison and you think no one wants to leave? Tons of them want what every human wants. What does sicken me is that people, who consider themselves the righteous ones, won't take the refugees because the Syrian ones cause the rise of the right and made it more difficult on them. Selfish self righteous cunts in my opinion. This is their home. This is the only place they have known. They have an absolute right to stay there. The reason why they might want to leave is because Israel through their policy of ethnic cleansing and genocide made it impossible for them to stay. In a just world they would be provided reparations and their city would be rebuilt, what Israel is offering is to put them in a concentration camp. What happened in Gaza is not the fault of Egypt or Jordan, or any of the other countries around them that are "supposed to take them because they are also brown". The country that is the most complicit in the destruction of Gaza after Israel is the US, are you down with a plan for Israel and US to pay to relocate 2 million people to Texas? As someone who's family was driven from their home which was subsequently looted and they were never able to return there I can tell you that the people who are selfish cunts in this hypothetical are people like you who both don't care about these people enough to be on board a humane solution which lets them stay in their home as well as calling for countries that had nothing to do with this whole fucking mess to take 2 million refugees because Israel decided that their security means flattening a city. What is tiring is that you can't see that you went full asshole the moment that you decided that Israel is unimpeachable and
everyone else is responsible for fixing their mess. Germany didn't fuck up Syria, neither did Turkey. It wasn't Lebanon or Jordan either. They most certainly didn't occupy Gaza in 1967 and they for sure didn't decide that a normal reaction to a terrorist attack that was only this successful because Israel's security forces were focused on taking more land in the West bank instead of protecting their citizens was to destroy or render uninhabitable 80 % + of buildings in a city of 2+ million while killing 60 + K people. This is what you are defending and this is who you are explaining should shoulder the burden of fixing it, otherwise they are selfish cunts, gotcha, how very righteous of you. I did not decide the bolded part, and for the 1000 time go try to find me saying it. I get that you have to say it because otherwise you would have to deal with what I'm actually saying and that is way harder, but it does not make it any less frustrating. I'm also not suggesting that people should be forced to go, I'm just not some self righteous asshole that is forcing them to stay in a hell hole. Everyone who decided it was a good idea to send all the Jews to Israel shares some of the responsibility along with all the assholes along the way that decided the best policy was to try to kill each other instead of getting along. But here we are and someone needs to start thinking about what is an actual go forward plan for the 6 million people living in various levels of hell.
One thing that can be done is to protest the governments of the US and Germany for militarily supporting Israel. These two countries alone make up nearly 100% of the arms exports to Israel.
Campaign groups and some politicians from Israel's Western allies argue that arms exports should be suspended because Israel is allegedly failing to adequately protect civilian lives and ensure sufficient humanitarian aid reaches Gaza. On Friday, the UN Human Rights Council supported a weapons ban, with 28 countries voting in favor, six against, and 13 abstentions. The US and Germany, which account for the majority of Israel's arms imports, voted against the ban. Germany's opposition was based on the resolution's failure to explicitly condemn Hamas.
https://www.jadetimes.com/post/gazawar-where-does-israel-getits-weapons
A ban on arms sales (including parts) to the US is also necessary, since their weapons inevitably end up in Israel.
CAAT says the UK has granted arms export licences to Israel worth £576m in total since 2008. Much of those have been for components used in US-made warplanes that end up in Israel.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68737412
People need to keep protesting and they need to get louder and louder. Anti-war protests have the desired effect. But people have to join now while there's still hope.
https://stopwarcoalition.org/historical-analysis-of-anti-war-protests-lessons-learned/#how-do-anti-war-protests-impact-government-policies
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On July 10 2025 18:05 Jankisa wrote:To reply to RJ who is perplexed how could someone come to a conclusion that hostages are important to Nethyanahu: Netanyahu: Return of hostages important, but war’s ‘supreme goal’ is victory over enemiesThis, after the reports of his aide being arrested for leaking information and sabotaguing negotiations really pissed the families of hostages off, because when you say something like this you are basically giving a free hand to Hamas to kill them, since they don't really mean much to IDF, according to their leader.
This is what you wrote:
Hostages question is silly for anyone on Israeli side to use, they gave up on actually trying to free them a long time ago and they are just a sunken cost, that is both disgusting and despicable but it doesn't seem like Israeli public cares about that anymore, the almost 2 years of war footing and insane rhetoric seems to have worked wonders in radicalizing them.
I mean, first of all, there are protests in Israel all the time about getting the hostages back. So your statement that "it doesn't seem like the Israeli public cares anymore" is just flat out ignorant.
Second, you can't make the claim that Israel isn't interested in getting the hostages back when they are literally in the middle of negotiating a ceasefire that will include pausing the war and releasing Hamas terrorists in exchange for some of the hostages. This shows that they are willing to put their ultimate war goal (the destruction of Hamas) on hold to get hostages back.
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On July 11 2025 01:23 Billyboy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2025 23:22 Jankisa wrote:On July 10 2025 22:39 Billyboy wrote:On July 10 2025 18:05 Jankisa wrote:To reply to RJ who is perplexed how could someone come to a conclusion that hostages are important to Nethyanahu: Netanyahu: Return of hostages important, but war’s ‘supreme goal’ is victory over enemiesThis, after the reports of his aide being arrested for leaking information and sabotaguing negotiations really pissed the families of hostages off, because when you say something like this you are basically giving a free hand to Hamas to kill them, since they don't really mean much to IDF, according to their leader. As far as BillyBoy's incredibly obtuse statement where he knows how Gazans should be happy to be ethnically cleansed to somewhere else, I wonder how he'd react if I kept throwing bombs at his house for almost 2 years and then offered him a tent somewhere in a desert to relocate since "his house is clearly not safe", I'm sure he'd be supper happy and would consider that a big win! That is not at all what I said, why go full asshole on me? It is so tiring. Do you really think everyone in Gaza wants to stay there? How many times do we here it is a large open air prison and you think no one wants to leave? Tons of them want what every human wants. What does sicken me is that people, who consider themselves the righteous ones, won't take the refugees because the Syrian ones cause the rise of the right and made it more difficult on them. Selfish self righteous cunts in my opinion. This is their home. This is the only place they have known. They have an absolute right to stay there. The reason why they might want to leave is because Israel through their policy of ethnic cleansing and genocide made it impossible for them to stay. In a just world they would be provided reparations and their city would be rebuilt, what Israel is offering is to put them in a concentration camp. What happened in Gaza is not the fault of Egypt or Jordan, or any of the other countries around them that are "supposed to take them because they are also brown". The country that is the most complicit in the destruction of Gaza after Israel is the US, are you down with a plan for Israel and US to pay to relocate 2 million people to Texas? As someone who's family was driven from their home which was subsequently looted and they were never able to return there I can tell you that the people who are selfish cunts in this hypothetical are people like you who both don't care about these people enough to be on board a humane solution which lets them stay in their home as well as calling for countries that had nothing to do with this whole fucking mess to take 2 million refugees because Israel decided that their security means flattening a city. What is tiring is that you can't see that you went full asshole the moment that you decided that Israel is unimpeachable and
everyone else is responsible for fixing their mess. Germany didn't fuck up Syria, neither did Turkey. It wasn't Lebanon or Jordan either. They most certainly didn't occupy Gaza in 1967 and they for sure didn't decide that a normal reaction to a terrorist attack that was only this successful because Israel's security forces were focused on taking more land in the West bank instead of protecting their citizens was to destroy or render uninhabitable 80 % + of buildings in a city of 2+ million while killing 60 + K people. This is what you are defending and this is who you are explaining should shoulder the burden of fixing it, otherwise they are selfish cunts, gotcha, how very righteous of you. I did not decide the bolded part, and for the 1000 time go try to find me saying it. I get that you have to say it because otherwise you would have to deal with what I'm actually saying and that is way harder, but it does not make it any less frustrating. I'm also not suggesting that people should be forced to go, I'm just not some self righteous asshole that is forcing them to stay in a hell hole. Everyone who decided it was a good idea to send all the Jews to Israel shares some of the responsibility along with all the assholes along the way that decided the best policy was to try to kill each other instead of getting along. But here we are and someone needs to start thinking about what is an actual go forward plan for the 6 million people living in various levels of hell.
You are communicating exactly as a person who decided exactly that, I'm sure I couldn't get or find GH admitting he's a tankie, but he reacts to news, writes and communicates exactly as a tankie would, so as far as I'm concerned he's a tankie.
You aren't suggesting people should be forced to go, just saying that them "voluntarily" leaving after their homes got wrecked is a huge win because all choices are bad, well, the choices are bad because Israel never attempted or considered any good choices, and this is the part of the responsibility Israel has that you keep ignoring.
On top of that you refuse to acknowledge that Israel has bad intent, going into a densely populated area and deciding to kill, regardless of amount of collateral damage every Hamas member as their stated war goal on which they didn't really specify how that would actually work, without any attempt of presenting an alternative to Hamas (except arming street gangs) and by any means necessary, including refusing to let aid in is evidence enough of genocidal intent to anyone who hasn't decided that Israel just "wouldn't do that".
Also interesting how you expanded the population to basically all Palestinians, not just Gazans, so you are already OK with Israel expelling all of them.
Very Laura Loomer aligator alcatraz 65 million tweet vibes.
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On July 11 2025 01:40 Magic Powers wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2025 01:23 Billyboy wrote:On July 10 2025 23:22 Jankisa wrote:On July 10 2025 22:39 Billyboy wrote:On July 10 2025 18:05 Jankisa wrote:To reply to RJ who is perplexed how could someone come to a conclusion that hostages are important to Nethyanahu: Netanyahu: Return of hostages important, but war’s ‘supreme goal’ is victory over enemiesThis, after the reports of his aide being arrested for leaking information and sabotaguing negotiations really pissed the families of hostages off, because when you say something like this you are basically giving a free hand to Hamas to kill them, since they don't really mean much to IDF, according to their leader. As far as BillyBoy's incredibly obtuse statement where he knows how Gazans should be happy to be ethnically cleansed to somewhere else, I wonder how he'd react if I kept throwing bombs at his house for almost 2 years and then offered him a tent somewhere in a desert to relocate since "his house is clearly not safe", I'm sure he'd be supper happy and would consider that a big win! That is not at all what I said, why go full asshole on me? It is so tiring. Do you really think everyone in Gaza wants to stay there? How many times do we here it is a large open air prison and you think no one wants to leave? Tons of them want what every human wants. What does sicken me is that people, who consider themselves the righteous ones, won't take the refugees because the Syrian ones cause the rise of the right and made it more difficult on them. Selfish self righteous cunts in my opinion. This is their home. This is the only place they have known. They have an absolute right to stay there. The reason why they might want to leave is because Israel through their policy of ethnic cleansing and genocide made it impossible for them to stay. In a just world they would be provided reparations and their city would be rebuilt, what Israel is offering is to put them in a concentration camp. What happened in Gaza is not the fault of Egypt or Jordan, or any of the other countries around them that are "supposed to take them because they are also brown". The country that is the most complicit in the destruction of Gaza after Israel is the US, are you down with a plan for Israel and US to pay to relocate 2 million people to Texas? As someone who's family was driven from their home which was subsequently looted and they were never able to return there I can tell you that the people who are selfish cunts in this hypothetical are people like you who both don't care about these people enough to be on board a humane solution which lets them stay in their home as well as calling for countries that had nothing to do with this whole fucking mess to take 2 million refugees because Israel decided that their security means flattening a city. What is tiring is that you can't see that you went full asshole the moment that you decided that Israel is unimpeachable and
everyone else is responsible for fixing their mess. Germany didn't fuck up Syria, neither did Turkey. It wasn't Lebanon or Jordan either. They most certainly didn't occupy Gaza in 1967 and they for sure didn't decide that a normal reaction to a terrorist attack that was only this successful because Israel's security forces were focused on taking more land in the West bank instead of protecting their citizens was to destroy or render uninhabitable 80 % + of buildings in a city of 2+ million while killing 60 + K people. This is what you are defending and this is who you are explaining should shoulder the burden of fixing it, otherwise they are selfish cunts, gotcha, how very righteous of you. I did not decide the bolded part, and for the 1000 time go try to find me saying it. I get that you have to say it because otherwise you would have to deal with what I'm actually saying and that is way harder, but it does not make it any less frustrating. I'm also not suggesting that people should be forced to go, I'm just not some self righteous asshole that is forcing them to stay in a hell hole. Everyone who decided it was a good idea to send all the Jews to Israel shares some of the responsibility along with all the assholes along the way that decided the best policy was to try to kill each other instead of getting along. But here we are and someone needs to start thinking about what is an actual go forward plan for the 6 million people living in various levels of hell. One thing that can be done is to protest the governments of the US and Germany for militarily supporting Israel. These two countries alone make up nearly 100% of the arms exports to Israel. Show nested quote +Campaign groups and some politicians from Israel's Western allies argue that arms exports should be suspended because Israel is allegedly failing to adequately protect civilian lives and ensure sufficient humanitarian aid reaches Gaza. On Friday, the UN Human Rights Council supported a weapons ban, with 28 countries voting in favor, six against, and 13 abstentions. The US and Germany, which account for the majority of Israel's arms imports, voted against the ban. Germany's opposition was based on the resolution's failure to explicitly condemn Hamas. https://www.jadetimes.com/post/gazawar-where-does-israel-getits-weaponsA ban on arms sales (including parts) to the US is also necessary, since their weapons inevitably end up in Israel. Show nested quote +CAAT says the UK has granted arms export licences to Israel worth £576m in total since 2008. Much of those have been for components used in US-made warplanes that end up in Israel. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68737412People need to keep protesting and they need to get louder and louder. Anti-war protests have the desired effect. But people have to join now while there's still hope. https://stopwarcoalition.org/historical-analysis-of-anti-war-protests-lessons-learned/#how-do-anti-war-protests-impact-government-policies
Sure, but I'm more talking next steps. It looks like (fingers crossed) Israel will stop the offensive in Gaza shortly and we will have a ceasefire that could (and for the sake of this discussion does) end the war. Now what? A real plan needs to be made for the area.
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On July 11 2025 01:57 Billyboy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2025 01:40 Magic Powers wrote:On July 11 2025 01:23 Billyboy wrote:On July 10 2025 23:22 Jankisa wrote:On July 10 2025 22:39 Billyboy wrote:On July 10 2025 18:05 Jankisa wrote:To reply to RJ who is perplexed how could someone come to a conclusion that hostages are important to Nethyanahu: Netanyahu: Return of hostages important, but war’s ‘supreme goal’ is victory over enemiesThis, after the reports of his aide being arrested for leaking information and sabotaguing negotiations really pissed the families of hostages off, because when you say something like this you are basically giving a free hand to Hamas to kill them, since they don't really mean much to IDF, according to their leader. As far as BillyBoy's incredibly obtuse statement where he knows how Gazans should be happy to be ethnically cleansed to somewhere else, I wonder how he'd react if I kept throwing bombs at his house for almost 2 years and then offered him a tent somewhere in a desert to relocate since "his house is clearly not safe", I'm sure he'd be supper happy and would consider that a big win! That is not at all what I said, why go full asshole on me? It is so tiring. Do you really think everyone in Gaza wants to stay there? How many times do we here it is a large open air prison and you think no one wants to leave? Tons of them want what every human wants. What does sicken me is that people, who consider themselves the righteous ones, won't take the refugees because the Syrian ones cause the rise of the right and made it more difficult on them. Selfish self righteous cunts in my opinion. This is their home. This is the only place they have known. They have an absolute right to stay there. The reason why they might want to leave is because Israel through their policy of ethnic cleansing and genocide made it impossible for them to stay. In a just world they would be provided reparations and their city would be rebuilt, what Israel is offering is to put them in a concentration camp. What happened in Gaza is not the fault of Egypt or Jordan, or any of the other countries around them that are "supposed to take them because they are also brown". The country that is the most complicit in the destruction of Gaza after Israel is the US, are you down with a plan for Israel and US to pay to relocate 2 million people to Texas? As someone who's family was driven from their home which was subsequently looted and they were never able to return there I can tell you that the people who are selfish cunts in this hypothetical are people like you who both don't care about these people enough to be on board a humane solution which lets them stay in their home as well as calling for countries that had nothing to do with this whole fucking mess to take 2 million refugees because Israel decided that their security means flattening a city. What is tiring is that you can't see that you went full asshole the moment that you decided that Israel is unimpeachable and
everyone else is responsible for fixing their mess. Germany didn't fuck up Syria, neither did Turkey. It wasn't Lebanon or Jordan either. They most certainly didn't occupy Gaza in 1967 and they for sure didn't decide that a normal reaction to a terrorist attack that was only this successful because Israel's security forces were focused on taking more land in the West bank instead of protecting their citizens was to destroy or render uninhabitable 80 % + of buildings in a city of 2+ million while killing 60 + K people. This is what you are defending and this is who you are explaining should shoulder the burden of fixing it, otherwise they are selfish cunts, gotcha, how very righteous of you. I did not decide the bolded part, and for the 1000 time go try to find me saying it. I get that you have to say it because otherwise you would have to deal with what I'm actually saying and that is way harder, but it does not make it any less frustrating. I'm also not suggesting that people should be forced to go, I'm just not some self righteous asshole that is forcing them to stay in a hell hole. Everyone who decided it was a good idea to send all the Jews to Israel shares some of the responsibility along with all the assholes along the way that decided the best policy was to try to kill each other instead of getting along. But here we are and someone needs to start thinking about what is an actual go forward plan for the 6 million people living in various levels of hell. One thing that can be done is to protest the governments of the US and Germany for militarily supporting Israel. These two countries alone make up nearly 100% of the arms exports to Israel. Campaign groups and some politicians from Israel's Western allies argue that arms exports should be suspended because Israel is allegedly failing to adequately protect civilian lives and ensure sufficient humanitarian aid reaches Gaza. On Friday, the UN Human Rights Council supported a weapons ban, with 28 countries voting in favor, six against, and 13 abstentions. The US and Germany, which account for the majority of Israel's arms imports, voted against the ban. Germany's opposition was based on the resolution's failure to explicitly condemn Hamas. https://www.jadetimes.com/post/gazawar-where-does-israel-getits-weaponsA ban on arms sales (including parts) to the US is also necessary, since their weapons inevitably end up in Israel. CAAT says the UK has granted arms export licences to Israel worth £576m in total since 2008. Much of those have been for components used in US-made warplanes that end up in Israel. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68737412People need to keep protesting and they need to get louder and louder. Anti-war protests have the desired effect. But people have to join now while there's still hope. https://stopwarcoalition.org/historical-analysis-of-anti-war-protests-lessons-learned/#how-do-anti-war-protests-impact-government-policies Sure, but I'm more talking next steps. It looks like (fingers crossed) Israel will stop the offensive in Gaza shortly and we will have a ceasefire that could (and for the sake of this discussion does) end the war. Now what? A real plan needs to be made for the area.
I'm an optimist at heart so I always wanna believe in a ceasefire. But I don't think there will be a lasting one anytime soon. Just judging from patterns.
Regarding a real post-war plan? There's only Netanyahu's settler ideology. It's inevitable. Israel can't handle a ceasefire while Netanyahu is in power. And he knows that perfectly well.
The only hope for Palestinians is to wait things out until Netanyahu keels over from natural causes. Then there may be a glimmer of hope.
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On July 11 2025 02:35 Magic Powers wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2025 01:57 Billyboy wrote:On July 11 2025 01:40 Magic Powers wrote:On July 11 2025 01:23 Billyboy wrote:On July 10 2025 23:22 Jankisa wrote:On July 10 2025 22:39 Billyboy wrote:On July 10 2025 18:05 Jankisa wrote:To reply to RJ who is perplexed how could someone come to a conclusion that hostages are important to Nethyanahu: Netanyahu: Return of hostages important, but war’s ‘supreme goal’ is victory over enemiesThis, after the reports of his aide being arrested for leaking information and sabotaguing negotiations really pissed the families of hostages off, because when you say something like this you are basically giving a free hand to Hamas to kill them, since they don't really mean much to IDF, according to their leader. As far as BillyBoy's incredibly obtuse statement where he knows how Gazans should be happy to be ethnically cleansed to somewhere else, I wonder how he'd react if I kept throwing bombs at his house for almost 2 years and then offered him a tent somewhere in a desert to relocate since "his house is clearly not safe", I'm sure he'd be supper happy and would consider that a big win! That is not at all what I said, why go full asshole on me? It is so tiring. Do you really think everyone in Gaza wants to stay there? How many times do we here it is a large open air prison and you think no one wants to leave? Tons of them want what every human wants. What does sicken me is that people, who consider themselves the righteous ones, won't take the refugees because the Syrian ones cause the rise of the right and made it more difficult on them. Selfish self righteous cunts in my opinion. This is their home. This is the only place they have known. They have an absolute right to stay there. The reason why they might want to leave is because Israel through their policy of ethnic cleansing and genocide made it impossible for them to stay. In a just world they would be provided reparations and their city would be rebuilt, what Israel is offering is to put them in a concentration camp. What happened in Gaza is not the fault of Egypt or Jordan, or any of the other countries around them that are "supposed to take them because they are also brown". The country that is the most complicit in the destruction of Gaza after Israel is the US, are you down with a plan for Israel and US to pay to relocate 2 million people to Texas? As someone who's family was driven from their home which was subsequently looted and they were never able to return there I can tell you that the people who are selfish cunts in this hypothetical are people like you who both don't care about these people enough to be on board a humane solution which lets them stay in their home as well as calling for countries that had nothing to do with this whole fucking mess to take 2 million refugees because Israel decided that their security means flattening a city. What is tiring is that you can't see that you went full asshole the moment that you decided that Israel is unimpeachable and
everyone else is responsible for fixing their mess. Germany didn't fuck up Syria, neither did Turkey. It wasn't Lebanon or Jordan either. They most certainly didn't occupy Gaza in 1967 and they for sure didn't decide that a normal reaction to a terrorist attack that was only this successful because Israel's security forces were focused on taking more land in the West bank instead of protecting their citizens was to destroy or render uninhabitable 80 % + of buildings in a city of 2+ million while killing 60 + K people. This is what you are defending and this is who you are explaining should shoulder the burden of fixing it, otherwise they are selfish cunts, gotcha, how very righteous of you. I did not decide the bolded part, and for the 1000 time go try to find me saying it. I get that you have to say it because otherwise you would have to deal with what I'm actually saying and that is way harder, but it does not make it any less frustrating. I'm also not suggesting that people should be forced to go, I'm just not some self righteous asshole that is forcing them to stay in a hell hole. Everyone who decided it was a good idea to send all the Jews to Israel shares some of the responsibility along with all the assholes along the way that decided the best policy was to try to kill each other instead of getting along. But here we are and someone needs to start thinking about what is an actual go forward plan for the 6 million people living in various levels of hell. One thing that can be done is to protest the governments of the US and Germany for militarily supporting Israel. These two countries alone make up nearly 100% of the arms exports to Israel. Campaign groups and some politicians from Israel's Western allies argue that arms exports should be suspended because Israel is allegedly failing to adequately protect civilian lives and ensure sufficient humanitarian aid reaches Gaza. On Friday, the UN Human Rights Council supported a weapons ban, with 28 countries voting in favor, six against, and 13 abstentions. The US and Germany, which account for the majority of Israel's arms imports, voted against the ban. Germany's opposition was based on the resolution's failure to explicitly condemn Hamas. https://www.jadetimes.com/post/gazawar-where-does-israel-getits-weaponsA ban on arms sales (including parts) to the US is also necessary, since their weapons inevitably end up in Israel. CAAT says the UK has granted arms export licences to Israel worth £576m in total since 2008. Much of those have been for components used in US-made warplanes that end up in Israel. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68737412People need to keep protesting and they need to get louder and louder. Anti-war protests have the desired effect. But people have to join now while there's still hope. https://stopwarcoalition.org/historical-analysis-of-anti-war-protests-lessons-learned/#how-do-anti-war-protests-impact-government-policies Sure, but I'm more talking next steps. It looks like (fingers crossed) Israel will stop the offensive in Gaza shortly and we will have a ceasefire that could (and for the sake of this discussion does) end the war. Now what? A real plan needs to be made for the area. I'm an optimist at heart so I always wanna believe in a ceasefire. But I don't think there will be a lasting one anytime soon. Just judging from patterns. Regarding a real post-war plan? There's only Netanyahu's settler ideology. It's inevitable. Israel can't handle a ceasefire while Netanyahu is in power. And he knows that perfectly well. The only hope for Palestinians is to wait things out until Netanyahu keels over from natural causes. Then there may be a glimmer of hope.
There is mounting pressure in Israel for elections, so that part is hopeful. But my bigger questions are about the go forward no matter who is leading Israel, and at this point almost no matter what they do.
Like imagine Israel says, deal 2 state solution with a land bridge for easy passage between the Westbank and Gaza. Now what? You have way to many people (and most are skillless with no education) in such a small area, no money, no industry, no infrastructure, no food and so on. Like thy need to transform into a Singapore economy to survive but that is like decades away if even ever possible. On top of that you have this radicalization that is not going to be easy to unwind.
It is going to take a global effort and there seems to be no will. And even with a global effort there is no blueprint for making it work. We have multple examples of how to not make it work, and even make it worse.
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EPT
