EPT2020 US Election - Page 294
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TT1
Canada10094 Posts
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FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Netherlands30548 Posts
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Shingi11
290 Posts
On November 12 2020 07:45 TT1 wrote: this is all a play to solidify a republican senate win in GA There was an article that came out that said this could actually depress Republican turnout though. Once it come out that there was nothing wrong and there is no evidence the base is going to feel betrayed and let down that there leaders let in there mind an unfair election go through. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22662 Posts
On November 12 2020 07:47 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: If a loved one dies from Covid there is a decent chance.Do you think any republican voters will hold Trump accountable for his 'Covid is a hoax and will be gone after the election' claims? Like just a tiny realization that shit is hitting the fan super hard? Otherwise? if they don't believe it now they won't believe it in a month or 6 months. | ||
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Shingi11
290 Posts
On November 12 2020 07:58 Gorsameth wrote: If a loved one dies from Covid there is a decent chance. Otherwise? if they don't believe it now they won't believe it in a month or 6 months. Some people in the flyover states still think it is a hoax. Aa long they sticking it to the dems and the evil liberals nothing else matters to a lot of Republican voters. | ||
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
On November 12 2020 08:09 Shingi11 wrote: Some people in the flyover states still think it is a hoax. Aa long they sticking it to the dems and the evil liberals nothing else matters to a lot of Republican voters. It's the rural red states and the midwest being hit hardest by it now, so I'm not sure if this attitude will stay true. ND's hospitals are totally full, but the governor is refusing to even consider any sort of mask mandate or lockdown (he said something about personal responsibility). Meanwhile, NY announced new covid measures today, though it's one of the least affected states by this wave. The republican run states had been doing decently for a while, but they never really had to deal with the spread that happened in a place like NY. Maybe because it was summer, maybe because the virus didn't spread to them originally (being focused in NY/Wa/Ca), but now they're the hotspots while the blue states that are willing to take more drastic measures appear to be dealing with it better. And since it's an exponential growth, that's likely to just keep getting more and more true in a couple of weeks. If you check the per capita maps, the only blue state in the top 10 from the last 7 days is Illinois, which has the misfortune to be in the middle of a ton of red states (here meaning states with either GOP legislature/courts or governor - WI and MI's health actions were shut down by GOP court+ legislature, though only WI is in the top 10). And it's not just a little bit higher - ND is more than 6x the national average, and its neighbors are 4-5x it. The map is basically an inverse of the one we had in April. The scary thing isn't what this map looks like now, it's that no actions are being taken to prevent spread by the state or federal governments in the hotspots, and the implications of that for two weeks from now. It's easy to deny COVID exists when no one you personally know has had it or died from it, but that's going to change real fast for citizens of these states. https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#cases_casesper100klast7days edit: Not to mention what having in person voting in such massive numbers could mean | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States24387 Posts
Other than respecting minorities and marginalized people they don't like, you could probably make a lot of them support Dem policy just by convincing them it was a Republican idea and Democrats hated it. I'm reminded of polling on the ACA vs Obamacare. | ||
BisuDagger
Bisutopia19393 Posts
On November 12 2020 08:45 GreenHorizons wrote: Anyone remember when there was that poll about Republicans blaming Obama for hurricane Katrina? About a third of the party's voters have no coherent ideology (or tether to reality imo) whatsoever and their entire political identity is simply being anti-Dem in a 2 party system. Other than respecting minorities and marginalized people they don't like, you could probably make a lot of them support Dem policy just by convincing them it was a Republican idea and Democrats hated it. I'm reminded of polling on the ACA vs Obamacare. It goes both ways. There are tons of uneducated voters in both parties. Children are raised to blindly follow a party line or ideology without ever being taught what it means or the pros and cons of either party. My point is, it’s pointless to point out the number of dumb shit Republicans when Democrats have an equal number. | ||
micronesia
United States24805 Posts
On November 12 2020 09:16 BisuDagger wrote: It goes both ways. There are tons of uneducated voters in both parties. Children are raised to blindly follow a party line or ideology without ever being taught what it means or the pros and cons of either party. My point is, it’s pointless to point out the number of dumb shit Republicans when Democrats have an equal number. If by "dumb shit" you are referring somewhat specifically to the issue GreenHorizons was discussing, then why do you believe both parties are affected equally? | ||
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Shingi11
290 Posts
On November 12 2020 08:44 Nevuk wrote: It's the rural red states and the midwest being hit hardest by it now, so I'm not sure if this attitude will stay true. ND's hospitals are totally full, but the governor is refusing to even consider any sort of mask mandate or lockdown (he said something about personal responsibility). Meanwhile, NY announced new covid measures today, though it's one of the least affected states by this wave. The republican run states had been doing decently for a while, but they never really had to deal with the spread that happened in a place like NY. Maybe because it was summer, maybe because the virus didn't spread to them originally (being focused in NY/Wa/Ca), but now they're the hotspots while the blue states that are willing to take more drastic measures appear to be dealing with it better. And since it's an exponential growth, that's likely to just keep getting more and more true in a couple of weeks. If you check the per capita maps, the only blue state in the top 10 from the last 7 days is Illinois, which has the misfortune to be in the middle of a ton of red states (here meaning states with either GOP legislature/courts or governor - WI and MI's health actions were shut down by GOP court+ legislature, though only WI is in the top 10). And it's not just a little bit higher - ND is more than 6x the national average, and its neighbors are 4-5x it. The map is basically an inverse of the one we had in April. The scary thing isn't what this map looks like now, it's that no actions are being taken to prevent spread by the state or federal governments in the hotspots, and the implications of that for two weeks from now. It's easy to deny COVID exists when no one you personally know has had it or died from it, but that's going to change real fast for citizens of these states. https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#cases_casesper100klast7days edit: Not to mention what having in person voting in such massive numbers could mean Its crazy how the states that are least equipped to handle it are the ones being the most lax. Some of these towns out it the sticks have like 1 ventilator and only a couple ICU beds. If an outbreak happens in some of these places it is going to be devastating. They should be terrified but my personal liberties. Covid has destroyed so many places all over the world but somehow they still belive it is just the liberal media out to get Trump. It is so scary that the US is slipping back into a state of uncontrolled covid spread with a good portion of the US not giving a dam. And we not getting any relief since mcturtle want to give business almost complete immunity from facing any legal ramifications from exposing there works to covid. Literally trading American lives for corporate greed. | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
On November 12 2020 07:16 ChristianS wrote: So maybe my biggest hope for the new admin is ending shit like this: https://twitter.com/crampell/status/1320471320468008961?s=21 One of Trump’s biggest expansions of executive power was in completely subjugating non-partisan administrative entities to partisan goals. It basically amounted to selective enforcement of laws passed by Congress in order to change policy without getting a new law passed, but the mechanism was essentially bureaucratic corruption masquerading as bureaucratic incompetence. Example: a series of fields for listing relatives, whether they are alive or deceased, and a blank for their current location. Location was left blank for deceased relatives; visa rejected. For a category of visa that is filled out 90% of the time by legal representation they still found grounds to reject a full 50% of applications for stuff like this. This type of “policy-setting” should be illegal, but I don’t know how you structure that law. For the moment, at least, I hope the Biden administration fixes all of this bullshit. It's not really a big political issue, but certainly a big issue in practice, that standard government functionality had large degrees of fuckery going on during the Trump admin. Just about every federal organization other than the military seemed like it had incompetent fools in charge during the administration, because that's who Trump appointed to lead up those orgs. Education, housing, infrastructure, immigration, the list goes on. | ||
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19393 Posts
On November 12 2020 09:18 micronesia wrote: If by "dumb shit" you are referring somewhat specifically to the issue GreenHorizons was discussing, then why do you believe both parties are affected equally? I was rushed to finish my message so I could put my kid to sleep lol. I guess I just don’t see the point in GH pointing out some dumb shit about people in regards to Katrina because both sides have endless face palm stories about each other and I guess I find it tiresome hearing Democrats or republicans bring up instances that prove how stupid the other side is. As helpless as we feel when certain politicians are in power, we are even more helpless when it comes to stopping morons in our party from thinking or doing really stupid things that make the rest of us look bad. And I believe both parties are affected equally based on the liberal new sites I read and posts on TL along with the conservative radio that plays in my area where the hosts have nothing better to do then say shit that makes Democrats look bad even though that’s not a proper representation of the majority of Democrats. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
You can honestly even see it in the USPMT, where the left-leaning posters are constantly arguing amongst themselves, while when a random right-wing loon pops into the thread, the conservative posters all silently let it slide rather than calling them out. You're responding to a post where GH criticizes Republicans while forgetting the fact that GH criticizes Democrats equally often. Both sides are accountable for some crazy shit, but they don't hold themselves accountable to an equal degree. | ||
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micronesia
United States24805 Posts
On November 12 2020 09:38 BisuDagger wrote: I was rushed to finish my message so I could put my kid to sleep lol. I guess I just don’t see the point in GH pointing out some dumb shit about people in regards to Katrina because both sides have endless face palm stories about each other and I guess I find it tiresome hearing Democrats or republicans bring up instances that prove how stupid the other side is. As helpless as we feel when certain politicians are in power, we are even more helpless when it comes to stopping morons in our party from thinking or doing really stupid things that make the rest of us look bad. And I believe both parties are affected equally based on the liberal new sites I read and posts on TL along with the conservative radio that plays in my area where the hosts have nothing better to do then say shit that makes Democrats look bad even though that’s not a proper representation of the majority of Democrats. I think the way you are simplifying what GreenHorizons was talking about as simply "dumb" behavior is misleading. A large number of republicans responding to a poll such that they blame Obama for Katrina or much prefer the ACA to Obamacare is not necessarily being dumb (in some cases perhaps it is)... it is being ignorant, in a fairly specific way. There are plenty of dumb democrats and plenty of ignorant democrats, generally speaking, but do you think for every case of a republican responding to a poll saying Obama was responsible for Katrina, there is a similar case of a democrat who would respond to a poll blaming a republican leader for something that was obviously not in any way their fault, or preferring one policy over another, even though they are literally the same thing, simply because of the name? It's really easy to make a "both sides" argument, but it's also a much more common argument from the side that is more at fault, so I'm always skeptical. Posts on TL and news sites really won't give you that much visibility on the phenomenon GreenHorizons was referring to. | ||
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
Biden currently leads by 13k in AZ as well. There's only one batch left to come from Maricopa - it seems like he's won AZ too (I'd feel comfortable calling it, but AP/Fox already did). https://www.azcentral.com/elections/results/race/2020-11-03-presidential-AZ-0/?itm_source=oembed&itm_medium=news&itm_campaign=electionresults Biden has picked Ron Klain as his chief of staff, per NYT. (He was his chief of staff as VP and was the ebola czar) https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/11/us/politics/ron-klain-biden.html Humor : Jeffrey Toobin has been fired from the New Yorker over uh, touching himself during a zoom call (he forget the video was on). https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-new-yorker-fires-jeffrey-toobin-after-investigation-into-zoom-masturbation-incident On November 12 2020 09:38 BisuDagger wrote: I was rushed to finish my message so I could put my kid to sleep lol. I guess I just don’t see the point in GH pointing out some dumb shit about people in regards to Katrina because both sides have endless face palm stories about each other and I guess I find it tiresome hearing Democrats or republicans bring up instances that prove how stupid the other side is. As helpless as we feel when certain politicians are in power, we are even more helpless when it comes to stopping morons in our party from thinking or doing really stupid things that make the rest of us look bad. And I believe both parties are affected equally based on the liberal new sites I read and posts on TL along with the conservative radio that plays in my area where the hosts have nothing better to do then say shit that makes Democrats look bad even though that’s not a proper representation of the majority of Democrats. The reason "both sides" doesn't work is mainly that we're talking about statistical evidence, of which, there is considerably more evidence that Republicans are prone to believing things that are just not true if their party leaders say it. It's not just believing that Obama was in office during 9/11. Here's another example: Democrats largely believe the economy's health based upon metrics, while republicans always suddenly think it starts doing better under a republican, even if all indicators are the same (ie that Trump's economy was massively better in Feb 2017 than Obama's in December 2016). | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
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Wegandi
United States2455 Posts
To fight this recession the Fed needs…soaring household spending to offset moribund business investment. [So] Alan Greenspan needs to create a housing bubble to replace the Nasdaq bubble. Before anyone says he didn't mean what he said (He being the esteemable Krugman) he said this a year prior: Meanwhile, economic policy should encourage other spending to offset the temporary slump in business investment. Low interest rates, which promote spending on housing and other durable goods, are the main answer. [emphasis added] As for economics Democrats believe in debunked crap like rent control, dismiss behavioral and Buchanan public choice economics, and have adherents in their midst of MMT (or have said wonderfully great things about the USSR (on video even!), Honduras, Castro regime, etc.). After Kucinich retired they're also all sycophants for the Fed Reserve. Literally not one other (and Sanders famously torpedoed our best shot at a Fed audit). | ||
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overt
United States9006 Posts
The sooner the GOP turns on Trump’s actual insanity the sooner we can start returning to some level of normalcy. | ||
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ChristianS
United States3304 Posts
On November 12 2020 09:30 LegalLord wrote: It's not really a big political issue, but certainly a big issue in practice, that standard government functionality had large degrees of fuckery going on during the Trump admin. Just about every federal organization other than the military seemed like it had incompetent fools in charge during the administration, because that's who Trump appointed to lead up those orgs. Education, housing, infrastructure, immigration, the list goes on. Yeah, there’s a perception among a lot of right-wing folks I’ve met that liberals love bureaucracy. Nobody loves bureaucracy, it’s just the only system we’ve come up with for administering large systems. Even without political appointees sabotaging them bureaucracies are a pain, but if it’s administered in bad faith there’s no fucking chance. If they demand your birth certificate, you send them your London birth certificate, and they send it back 6 months later demanding it be translated into English, what do you actually do? It’s kinda like a corrupt government except you can’t even bribe them to not ignore you. Maybe having political connections could get you through? I think the solution is maybe supposed to be the courts, but we’ve seen that you can start doing this shit day 1 of your administration and spend four years innovating new ways to fuck people and by the end the courts will maybe have scheduled a hearing about some portion of it some time next year. Maybe if Trump were re-elected we’d start resolving court cases on some of it in the next couple years? And I’m not too optimistic that the courts would actually fix anything even then. The problem of how you insulate these agencies from political appointees seems unsolved at present; I’m not expecting a permanent fix from Biden. But if we’re lucky for the next four years this stuff will be administered in good faith, maybe even competently. | ||
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thePunGun
598 Posts
On November 12 2020 10:42 overt wrote: More members of the GOP need to start stepping up to move the transition forward. Your voters picked a conman, it sucks, but now you need to start worrying about long term damage to our institutions. The sooner the GOP turns on Trump’s actual insanity the sooner we can start returning to some level of normalcy. The main problem here is Trump will eventually f... *uhum* ...go away, but the shit stain from the huge dump he took on the credibility and legitimacy of the election process will stick around much longer | ||
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