EPT2020 US Election - Page 293
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
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GreenHorizons
United States23932 Posts
On November 12 2020 01:53 Nevuk wrote: Yes, that's a much more serious concern - I was pretty terrified of it in 2016 too. If things stay at their current low boil I'm not as worried. I've seen little signs that there is any coordination ongoing, but I'd be afraid to be downtown in Philly for the next few weeks. Regardless, none of what you're speculating about would keep Trump in power. (He's encouraging riots, basically). I'd guess Trump has >75% of support from active cops in the country. They don't really live in cities, almost exclusively they live outside of where they patrol. We'll see how MAGApalooza goes this weekend... | ||
micronesia
United States24771 Posts
On November 12 2020 02:25 Mohdoo wrote: I like how they specify "by hand" as if that should somehow increase accuracy. Machines > humans Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Machines can be 100% effective or 0% effective, depending on the circumstances. Counting by hand doesn't rule out individual mistakes, but the people will generally catch if the bubble was off by half a row for all ballots. | ||
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Simberto
Germany11826 Posts
On November 12 2020 02:25 Mohdoo wrote: I like how they specify "by hand" as if that should somehow increase accuracy. Machines > humans As someone who has actually counted ballots by hand, i disagree here. While machines might make fewer mistakes in a perfect scenario for perfectly filled-in votes (I don't even know that), humans have a few huge advantages. The main one is that it is a lot harder to tamper with humans, simply due to them being a lot less fast and efficient. If there are 8 people in a room counting votes as a group, and you want to tamper with the votes, you either need all 8 on board, or you are only going to get very minor changes in the total count because you have to hide what you are doing. And even if you get all 8 on board, these people will only be able to count a few thousand votes in an evening at best. And if their result seems widely out of whack with other results, someone will take a look at those ballots. And ideally, those 8 people are just random people you throw together for that counting action, so the chances that all of them agree to tamper with stuff are very, very low. Meanwhile, with machines, you only need to tamper with one machine which the people using it probably don't really understand how it works anyways. And even if the machines are not easy to tamper with, that isn't obvious, because almost no one understands what is going on in that black box. Meanwhile, procedures done by humans can be very obviously hard to tamper with. Humans are also a lot better ad deciding what to do about ballots which might be valid, but aren't completely filled in the standard way. And finally, the accuracy concerns can be dealt with by having a good counting procedure. I am pretty confident that the numbers my group counted were accurate. | ||
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
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TheTenthDoc
United States9561 Posts
Ultimately it's a futile waste of energy and we should have tighter margins for recounts, but oh well. Every recount we do adds to the case for tighter margins in the future, I suppose. | ||
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
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Zambrah
United States7393 Posts
I wonder if this indicates Republican galvanization for the Senate seats, they've always voted down ballot harder and I think the Brunch Democrats might consider their work done leading to a pretty clean Republican margin for these races. | ||
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thePunGun
598 Posts
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19345 Posts
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Zambrah
United States7393 Posts
Republicans and Democrats are basically corporate welfare parties with various degrees of social progression or regression involved. | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France8075 Posts
On November 12 2020 00:09 LegalLord wrote: It's an incremental improvement over Trump! But not over Putin! Weird, other people can shitpost too. | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
Yeah, well, you win some you lose some. | ||
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Shingi11
290 Posts
On November 12 2020 00:30 GreenHorizons wrote: There are about as many police as there are national guard. Trump clearly isn't attempting anything resembling a typical coup though, he's simply holding the perceived stability of the system hostage and doesn't need to actually "be president" to burn the system down and claim to be the king of the ash heap. My concern is that he can do that largely unintentionally and without the type of organization you're talking about. Just getting his hundreds of thousands of cop supporters to violently confront anti-Trump protesters (something they're known to do already) can be more than enough to set us on an uncontrollable spiral imo. IMO the concern isn't that Trump is masterminding some legally nuanced coup, it's that he loses control over the people that think that Biden stole the election/the conflict spirals out of the control of Trump and Biden. Ya this hits the nail on the head. We have seen what they where willing to do during the election. Once it sets in that Trump is gone they are just going to be a powder keg from some imaginary injustice they perceive happened. Trump is giving them false hope right now that is keeping them from lashing out. | ||
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Zambrah
United States7393 Posts
You win some, you lose some. | ||
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Sbrubbles
Brazil5776 Posts
On November 12 2020 02:25 Mohdoo wrote: I like how they specify "by hand" as if that should somehow increase accuracy. Machines > humans It's just to preempt conspiracy theorists who will claim machine tampering and whatnot no matter the likelihood or difficulty of such a thing. | ||
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overt
United States9006 Posts
Because with a Biden lead of 14,000 votes it seems like a massive waste of time and money. | ||
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
On November 12 2020 06:21 overt wrote: Are they recounting the GA vote because it's under the threshold to trigger an automatic recount? Because with a Biden lead of 14,000 votes it seems like a massive waste of time and money. No. It's because of Trump's whining. GA has no automatic recount policy, and their available recount for losers is by request later on in the process, and is machine only. CNN has not projected a winner in the Georgia presidential race, but Biden currently leads Trump by more than 14,000 votes in the state -- a lead that Raffensperger previously said is "unlikely" to be overtaken in a recount. CNN has projected that Biden will win the presidential election. Trump has not conceded in the race, and instead has made unfounded claims about widespread voter fraud and mail-in ballots. The Georgia Republican Party and US Rep. Doug Collins, a Georgia Republican who's leading the Trump campaign's recount efforts in the state, on Tuesday requested a pre-certification "manual hand recount of every ballot cast within the State of Georgia" for president. Collins and the Trump campaign on Wednesday celebrated the recount decision from the Georgia secretary of state as a victory for "integrity" and "transparency." [...] Raffensperger said he expects the recount to be done in time for Georgia's certification of the presidential results, which has a November 20 deadline. The Trump campaign is trying to delay certification in some key states as part of a longshot attempt to overturn the results through the Electoral College. Raffensperger said he hopes to start the recount before the week ends. So far, 97 of Georgia's 159 counties have already certified their results, but all of the county certifications are still required by Friday, he said. He said he would officially designate the presidential race as the subject of the risk limiting audit later Wednesday. Raffensperger said once the results are certified on November 20, a candidate within the 0.5% margin will still be able to request a "recount," but that it would be a "scanned recount" done by machines. He acknowledged that the audit would be expensive and "a heavy lift" and that election workers will be working overtime. Typically, risk limiting audits like these only examine a small sample of the votes, but Raffensperger cited the narrow margin as the reason officials will re-check every ballot cast in the presidential race. https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/11/politics/georgia-full-state-recount-2020-presidential-race/index.html | ||
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ChristianS
United States3304 Posts
https://twitter.com/crampell/status/1320471320468008961?s=21 One of Trump’s biggest expansions of executive power was in completely subjugating non-partisan administrative entities to partisan goals. It basically amounted to selective enforcement of laws passed by Congress in order to change policy without getting a new law passed, but the mechanism was essentially bureaucratic corruption masquerading as bureaucratic incompetence. Example: a series of fields for listing relatives, whether they are alive or deceased, and a blank for their current location. Location was left blank for deceased relatives; visa rejected. For a category of visa that is filled out 90% of the time by legal representation they still found grounds to reject a full 50% of applications for stuff like this. This type of “policy-setting” should be illegal, but I don’t know how you structure that law. For the moment, at least, I hope the Biden administration fixes all of this bullshit. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26765 Posts
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