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On November 11 2020 09:51 Nevuk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2020 09:31 plasmidghost wrote:
So uh, I'm pretty fucking terrified of Trump purging the Pentagon to get his sycophants in charge Wouldn't work, even if he got them in charge. At least, it wouldn't work how Trump envisages it: He may be a wanna-be dictator (at this point, there's no way anyone can doubt this), but he's one with extremely narrow military support in the officer corps. The only way he can retain power is if he gets the military to literally go and start arresting any politicians who disagree with him or refuse to do his bidding. He's flatly not popular enough for that. His popularity among the enlisted has also radically fallen. I posted a poll a while back from Military Times that noted Biden was four points ahead of Trump in their polls of the military from all ranks (ie, it's a randomized poll of both officers and enlisted across all ranks). If Trump declares martial law, he has to have the military willing to back it with force. There are no absolutely no signs that they are. He'd need a full purge of the officer corps, not just the people in charge, and there isn't the time or the will for that. They won't kill or arrest US citizens, on US soil, just because Trump says to do it: these aren't the US police. Each US state also has its own military in the form of the national guard, which makes it even harder to do. (Even a plurality republicans already acknowledge that this result isn't going to be changed)
So why not just use the police and not the military?
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On November 11 2020 11:36 Nevuk wrote:The person whose testimony was used as the justification for the latest fishing expedition from Barr has recanted under oath technically, penalty of perjury, admitting that they made it all up. Guy is still saying he didn't recant on youtube, even after signing an affadavit that he did (which was given to congress)... grifters gonna grift, I guess. Show nested quote +Richard Hopkins’s claim that a postmaster in Erie, Pa., instructed postal workers to backdate ballots mailed after Election Day was cited by Sen. Lindsey O. Graham (R-S.C.) in a letter to the Justice Department calling for a federal investigation. Attorney General William P. Barr subsequently authorized federal prosecutors to open probes into credible allegations of voting irregularities and fraud before results are certified, a reversal of long-standing Justice Department policy.
But on Monday, Hopkins, 32, told investigators from the U.S. Postal Service’s Office of Inspector General that the allegations were not true, and he signed an affidavit recanting his claims, according to officials who spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe an ongoing investigation. Democrats on the House Oversight Committee tweeted late Tuesday that the “whistleblower completely RECANTED.”
[...]
The Postal Service inspector general’s office informed members of Congress in a briefing on Tuesday that Hopkins had recanted his allegations, according to a congressional aide. The investigators first interviewed Hopkins on Friday, the aide said.
Hopkins’s allegations, without his name, were first aired last week by Project Veritas, an organization that uses deceptive tactics to expose what it says is bias and corruption in the mainstream media. Hopkins agreed to attach his name to the allegations late last week. He was instantly celebrated by Trump supporters.
Project Veritas founder James O’Keefe on Saturday hailed Hopkins as “an American hero” on Twitter. A GoFundMe page created under Hopkins’s name had raised more than $136,000 by Tuesday evening, with donors praising him as a patriot and whistleblower. The fundraising page was removed by GoFundMe after this story was published Tuesday, a spokesman for the platform said.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/postal-worker-fabricated-ballot-pennsylvania/2020/11/10/99269a7c-2364-11eb-8599-406466ad1b8e_story.html
https://saraacarter.com/usps-whistleblower-demands-washington-post-retract-story-saying-he-recanted-allegations-of-voter-fraud/
Correction: WAPO claims he recanted. That person doesn't. If he did we will see the written recant, as we have the original affidavit.
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On November 11 2020 12:00 GoTuNk! wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2020 09:54 Gorsameth wrote:
Yeah I don't think there is any reason to fear Trump would organise a military coup, which is what will be needed to stay in power if he loses the electoral vote.
And if he could do it then America is lost anyway regardless of what you do, so why worry about it. They actually believe this non sense stuff. I don't understand why he can't claim election fraud while presenting legal challenges. It's petty at worst but not illegal. There are 100's of affidavits at this point and at least one case of alleged software "glitch" that flipped thousands of votes https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8923165/GOP-claims-software-glitch-Michigan-incorrectly-gave-6000-votes-Biden.htmlThe courts will review this stuff and rule adequatately. Like they did when Al Gore didn't concede until December 14. That's it, that's how it works. If/when the court's discount Trump's legal claims and the EC declares Biden winner, and Trump calls supporters to take the streets on arms, then that's a coup. Filling legal claims is not. An historical number of mail in ballots was issued, waiting for official results and review sketchy looking stuff is not a coup, despite "resistance porn" wishes. I'm 99% sure Biden will eventually win this election, but there are no mandatory pre emptive concession requirements.
You cannot be comparing this to Bush V Gore. That's nonsense.
1. Bush v Gore was a margin of <400 votes in a single swing state, involving an infamously convoluted ballot. The results literally changed depending on how you counted them due to the 'hanging chads' issue.
Was there a lawsuit? Yes, but there were sufficient grounds for it. At least four of Trump's so far have been thrown out as "baseless". The Supreme Court's 5-4 ruling literally says "don't use this as precedent".
Trump lost 4 states, all by margins at least 10x the Bush v Gore one (and most closer to 100x), and no one is saying the ballots were hard to use ('sharpiegate', the scandal that wasn't, is the only one with even a passing resemblance).
2. Mail in ballots are not a new thing. Every state has permitted absentee ballots in some capacity before.
3. Clinton was giving security briefings to Bush the entire time, even before the election happened.
4. Clinton was not firing top military personnel in a manner that worried the pentagon and had members of it saying "these are dictator moves" :
Knowledgeable sources told CNN’s Jake Tapper Tuesday that the White House now seems focused on going after Esper’s undersecretaries at the Defense Department in the wake of his firing on Monday. Esper was replaced by Christopher Miller, the director of the National Counterterrorism Center.
The sources said the effort may be because Esper and his team were pushing back on a premature withdrawal from Afghanistan that would be carried out before the required conditions on the ground were met, and other pending security issues.
“This is scary, it’s very unsettling,” one defense official told CNN. “These are dictator moves.”
https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/10/politics/pentagon-policy-official-resigns/index.html
5. Clinton and Gore never said they would refuse the peaceful transfer of power.
On November 11 2020 12:10 GoTuNk! wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2020 11:36 Nevuk wrote:The person whose testimony was used as the justification for the latest fishing expedition from Barr has recanted under oath technically, penalty of perjury, admitting that they made it all up. Guy is still saying he didn't recant on youtube, even after signing an affadavit that he did (which was given to congress)... grifters gonna grift, I guess. Richard Hopkins’s claim that a postmaster in Erie, Pa., instructed postal workers to backdate ballots mailed after Election Day was cited by Sen. Lindsey O. Graham (R-S.C.) in a letter to the Justice Department calling for a federal investigation. Attorney General William P. Barr subsequently authorized federal prosecutors to open probes into credible allegations of voting irregularities and fraud before results are certified, a reversal of long-standing Justice Department policy.
But on Monday, Hopkins, 32, told investigators from the U.S. Postal Service’s Office of Inspector General that the allegations were not true, and he signed an affidavit recanting his claims, according to officials who spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe an ongoing investigation. Democrats on the House Oversight Committee tweeted late Tuesday that the “whistleblower completely RECANTED.”
[...]
The Postal Service inspector general’s office informed members of Congress in a briefing on Tuesday that Hopkins had recanted his allegations, according to a congressional aide. The investigators first interviewed Hopkins on Friday, the aide said.
Hopkins’s allegations, without his name, were first aired last week by Project Veritas, an organization that uses deceptive tactics to expose what it says is bias and corruption in the mainstream media. Hopkins agreed to attach his name to the allegations late last week. He was instantly celebrated by Trump supporters.
Project Veritas founder James O’Keefe on Saturday hailed Hopkins as “an American hero” on Twitter. A GoFundMe page created under Hopkins’s name had raised more than $136,000 by Tuesday evening, with donors praising him as a patriot and whistleblower. The fundraising page was removed by GoFundMe after this story was published Tuesday, a spokesman for the platform said.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/postal-worker-fabricated-ballot-pennsylvania/2020/11/10/99269a7c-2364-11eb-8599-406466ad1b8e_story.html https://saraacarter.com/usps-whistleblower-demands-washington-post-retract-story-saying-he-recanted-allegations-of-voter-fraud/Correction: WAPO claims he recanted. That person doesn't. If he did we will see the written recant, as we have the original affidavit.
Congress was given proof he recanted. Read the article.
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United States43975 Posts
On November 11 2020 12:00 GoTuNk! wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2020 09:54 Gorsameth wrote:
Yeah I don't think there is any reason to fear Trump would organise a military coup, which is what will be needed to stay in power if he loses the electoral vote.
And if he could do it then America is lost anyway regardless of what you do, so why worry about it. They actually believe this non sense stuff. I don't understand why he can't claim election fraud while presenting legal challenges. It's petty at worst but not illegal. There are 100's of affidavits at this point and at least one case of alleged software "glitch" that flipped thousands of votes https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8923165/GOP-claims-software-glitch-Michigan-incorrectly-gave-6000-votes-Biden.htmlThe courts will review this stuff and rule adequatately. Like they did when Al Gore didn't concede until December 14. That's it, that's how it works. If/when the court's discount Trump's legal claims and the EC declares Biden winner, and Trump calls supporters to take the streets on arms, then that's a coup. Filling legal claims is not. An historical number of mail in ballots was issued, waiting for official results and review sketchy looking stuff is not a coup, despite "resistance porn" wishes. I'm 99% sure Biden will eventually win this election, but there are no mandatory pre emptive concession requirements.
He didn’t wait for official results, he declared victory and called on his followers to support it, just as you describe as a coup. The election isn’t undecided, it’s actively contested. Trump isn’t waiting for this to get cleared up, he’s trying to stay in power by force.
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The big problem with the way Trump is going about this. It is not that he us being treated unfair. This is not just a handful of votes that did not dot there i and cross there ts it is 10s of thousands of votes. Its also not just 1 states, he has law suits 5 states. That is insane.
And he has no standing, he is getting thrown out by a lot of the God awful judges that he himself picked because even they know this is dumb. His legal argument in a lot of these cases is that he does not want these votes cause they where not for him. Witch i am sorry to say is not a reason to have them voided.
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On November 11 2020 10:56 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2020 09:21 Shingi11 wrote:So about that peaceful transition of power
Biden not getting intelligence reports because Trump officials won't recognize him as president-elect
Mike Pompeo says there will be a smooth transition to second Trump administration I think this is really going to test our government. Have we ever had candidate resist this much. If I remember correctly I think Jackson hated his replacement but I dont know if it was to this level. Never this level. I think people are going to lose their patience with shit like this because 80% of Americans agree that this is even next level bullshit. It's the 20% blowhards who are making the noise. This might actually help in the Senate race to kick the red team out of the majority when they thought it could work in their favor lol.. Maybe Mitch and Lindsay were right about Trump being the last Republican president if they don't reform the party lol.. wishful thinking. They will get what they deserve a special place in fucking Hell and I wish someone would just make their lives Hell like the bullshit they put Americans through. There really needs to be consequences for spreading such lies. Maybe cut off their tongues. We need to old school, medieval on their asses. Squeal little piggy. Squeal for me.
I'm shocked people believe stuff like this when this election was just as close as 2016 after Trump fucked up covid horribly.
This other shit doesn't meaningfully impact people's day to day lives; to your average voter it's just rich and powerful people blustering over power while their lives continue to be shit because the rich and powerful only care about being more rich and powerful. Democrats need to run on things other than "republicans bad" because to most people there isn't a noticeable difference and this stuff is just a continuation of that.
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On November 11 2020 12:10 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2020 09:51 Nevuk wrote:On November 11 2020 09:31 plasmidghost wrote:
So uh, I'm pretty fucking terrified of Trump purging the Pentagon to get his sycophants in charge Wouldn't work, even if he got them in charge. At least, it wouldn't work how Trump envisages it: He may be a wanna-be dictator (at this point, there's no way anyone can doubt this), but he's one with extremely narrow military support in the officer corps. The only way he can retain power is if he gets the military to literally go and start arresting any politicians who disagree with him or refuse to do his bidding. He's flatly not popular enough for that. His popularity among the enlisted has also radically fallen. I posted a poll a while back from Military Times that noted Biden was four points ahead of Trump in their polls of the military from all ranks (ie, it's a randomized poll of both officers and enlisted across all ranks). If Trump declares martial law, he has to have the military willing to back it with force. There are no absolutely no signs that they are. He'd need a full purge of the officer corps, not just the people in charge, and there isn't the time or the will for that. They won't kill or arrest US citizens, on US soil, just because Trump says to do it: these aren't the US police. Each US state also has its own military in the form of the national guard, which makes it even harder to do. (Even a plurality republicans already acknowledge that this result isn't going to be changed) So why not just use the police and not the military?
Because he is not the commander in chief of the police?
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On November 11 2020 12:00 GoTuNk! wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2020 09:54 Gorsameth wrote:
Yeah I don't think there is any reason to fear Trump would organise a military coup, which is what will be needed to stay in power if he loses the electoral vote.
And if he could do it then America is lost anyway regardless of what you do, so why worry about it. They actually believe this non sense stuff. I don't understand why he can't claim election fraud while presenting legal challenges. It's petty at worst but not illegal. There are 100's of affidavits at this point and at least one case of alleged software "glitch" that flipped thousands of votes https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8923165/GOP-claims-software-glitch-Michigan-incorrectly-gave-6000-votes-Biden.htmlThe courts will review this stuff and rule adequatately. Like they did when Al Gore didn't concede until December 14. That's it, that's how it works. If/when the court's discount Trump's legal claims and the EC declares Biden winner, and Trump calls supporters to take the streets on arms, then that's a coup. Filling legal claims is not. An historical number of mail in ballots was issued, waiting for official results and review sketchy looking stuff is not a coup, despite "resistance porn" wishes. I'm 99% sure Biden will eventually win this election, but there are no mandatory pre emptive concession requirements. I wonder why no one believes Trump is being genuine in his complaints. Might have something to do with claiming everything was fraud BEFORE the election even started.
Maybe because he was actively trying to sabotage the postal service himself.
Maybe it is because he claimed mail-in ballots were fraud, while telling people in Florida to use mail-in ballots because they favour Republicans there.
Maybe it is because he was telling one state to stop counting votes when his lead was shrinking while telling another state to keep counting because he was behind.
Maybe it is because his cases keep getting thrown out because they are utterly BS. Like the reports we had of a case where they claimed they had no observers and when the judge asked if they had any the lawyer was forced to say they did infact have observers present.
Maybe its the long string of bullshit investigations that all end up being nothing that Barr has kept up.
Maybe its that this scenario is exactly what the Republicans said they would be doing incase Biden won to try and steal the election.
Maybe if Trump had a single ounce of credibility someone might have taken him seriously. But he doesn't so no one believes him, and why should they?
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On November 11 2020 17:39 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2020 12:10 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 11 2020 09:51 Nevuk wrote:On November 11 2020 09:31 plasmidghost wrote:
So uh, I'm pretty fucking terrified of Trump purging the Pentagon to get his sycophants in charge Wouldn't work, even if he got them in charge. At least, it wouldn't work how Trump envisages it: He may be a wanna-be dictator (at this point, there's no way anyone can doubt this), but he's one with extremely narrow military support in the officer corps. The only way he can retain power is if he gets the military to literally go and start arresting any politicians who disagree with him or refuse to do his bidding. He's flatly not popular enough for that. His popularity among the enlisted has also radically fallen. I posted a poll a while back from Military Times that noted Biden was four points ahead of Trump in their polls of the military from all ranks (ie, it's a randomized poll of both officers and enlisted across all ranks). If Trump declares martial law, he has to have the military willing to back it with force. There are no absolutely no signs that they are. He'd need a full purge of the officer corps, not just the people in charge, and there isn't the time or the will for that. They won't kill or arrest US citizens, on US soil, just because Trump says to do it: these aren't the US police. Each US state also has its own military in the form of the national guard, which makes it even harder to do. (Even a plurality republicans already acknowledge that this result isn't going to be changed) So why not just use the police and not the military? Because he is not the commander in chief of the police?
My point is just that it makes more sense to me for Trump to appeal to the massive, armed, recognized source of authority that overwhelmingly supports him and has been brutally repressing dissent for the past several months + Show Spoiler +(well pretty much their entire existence, but especially so since George Floyd)
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On November 11 2020 17:52 Gorsameth wrote:
...
Maybe if Trump had a single ounce of credibility someone might have taken him seriously. But he doesn't so no one believes him, and why should they?
...
I am stunned that there seems to be a (growing?) huge number of people (in the US) that buy in into the narrative of the stolen election, despite being told what would happen step by step, despite TrumpCampaign holds no evidence of outcome changing fraud, despite claiming to love democracy.
"I will only accept the result...if I win."
Trump 2016
How can that statement alone not be enough to deconstruct all TrumpCampaign's works against the election ?
And there are people that do not actually believe in the fraud accusations, but welcome the possibility of turning a lost election into a second trump term by just spewing accusations and doubt, in hope to push legislators to send Trump-men to EC, or for some miracle in court that would nullify Mail-In Ballots COUNTED (not even received) after election night. Or for some reason a SC that accepts that EC will consist of Trump-Men that do not vote in.
Biden campaign seems not too worried. As was GoreCampaign in 2000... Meh.
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On November 11 2020 21:08 KT_Elwood wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2020 17:52 Gorsameth wrote:
...
Maybe if Trump had a single ounce of credibility someone might have taken him seriously. But he doesn't so no one believes him, and why should they?
...
I am stunned that there seems to be a (growing?) huge number of people (in the US) that buy in into the narrative of the stolen election, despite being told what would happen step by step, despite TrumpCampaign holds no evidence of outcome changing fraud, despite claiming to love democracy. "I will only accept the result...if I win." Trump 2016 How can that statement alone not be enough to deconstruct all TrumpCampaign's works against the election ? And there are people that do not actually believe in the fraud accusations, but welcome the possibility of turning a lost election into a second trump term by just spewing accusations and doubt, in hope to push legislators to send Trump-men to EC, or for some miracle in court that would nullify Mail-In Ballots COUNTED (not even received) after election night. Or for some reason a SC that accepts that EC will consist of Trump-Men that do not vote in. Biden campaign seems not too worried. As was GoreCampaign in 2000... Meh.
But is this really about a 2nd Trump term, or are other motives more important? They could be keeping the GOP together, keeping the Georgia Trump base energized for the senate election and spinning the story that Trump never lost for a possible future comeback?
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On November 11 2020 21:13 Slydie wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2020 21:08 KT_Elwood wrote:On November 11 2020 17:52 Gorsameth wrote:
...
Maybe if Trump had a single ounce of credibility someone might have taken him seriously. But he doesn't so no one believes him, and why should they?
...
I am stunned that there seems to be a (growing?) huge number of people (in the US) that buy in into the narrative of the stolen election, despite being told what would happen step by step, despite TrumpCampaign holds no evidence of outcome changing fraud, despite claiming to love democracy. "I will only accept the result...if I win." Trump 2016 How can that statement alone not be enough to deconstruct all TrumpCampaign's works against the election ? And there are people that do not actually believe in the fraud accusations, but welcome the possibility of turning a lost election into a second trump term by just spewing accusations and doubt, in hope to push legislators to send Trump-men to EC, or for some miracle in court that would nullify Mail-In Ballots COUNTED (not even received) after election night. Or for some reason a SC that accepts that EC will consist of Trump-Men that do not vote in. Biden campaign seems not too worried. As was GoreCampaign in 2000... Meh. But is this really about a 2nd Trump term, or are other motives more important? They could be keeping the GOP together, keeping the Georgia Trump base energized for the senate election and spinning the story that Trump never lost for a possible future comeback? The problem with trying to use this to keep the base energised is that 2 months is a long time to keep that up and the Electoral College will vote before the run-off election (and I think early voting starts on the same day as the vote).
So the US will have an official President-elect and the fight will be over by then.
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On November 11 2020 21:13 Slydie wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2020 21:08 KT_Elwood wrote:On November 11 2020 17:52 Gorsameth wrote:
...
Maybe if Trump had a single ounce of credibility someone might have taken him seriously. But he doesn't so no one believes him, and why should they?
...
I am stunned that there seems to be a (growing?) huge number of people (in the US) that buy in into the narrative of the stolen election, despite being told what would happen step by step, despite TrumpCampaign holds no evidence of outcome changing fraud, despite claiming to love democracy. "I will only accept the result...if I win." Trump 2016 How can that statement alone not be enough to deconstruct all TrumpCampaign's works against the election ? And there are people that do not actually believe in the fraud accusations, but welcome the possibility of turning a lost election into a second trump term by just spewing accusations and doubt, in hope to push legislators to send Trump-men to EC, or for some miracle in court that would nullify Mail-In Ballots COUNTED (not even received) after election night. Or for some reason a SC that accepts that EC will consist of Trump-Men that do not vote in. Biden campaign seems not too worried. As was GoreCampaign in 2000... Meh. But is this really about a 2nd Trump term, or are other motives more important? They could be keeping the GOP together, keeping the Georgia Trump base energized for the senate election and spinning the story that Trump never lost for a possible future comeback?
Trump was never, ever, going to concede. If he would’ve lost states like FL and NC, if the election was the biggest landslide in US history, he still would be peddling this nonsense.
I think the GOP knew this and realized they couldn’t convince Trump of anything. So now they’re left with condemning his actions and fracturing their party or playing along until December 14th. After the electors officially vote I think Rs will just stop commenting on it while Trump continues to make these claims.
What makes no sense to me is why regular Americans are just going along with it. Why they’ll believe this shit years from now despite the lack of evidence. If Trump was more popular this country would likely be fucked.
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This pentagon official thing has me honestly worried.
Trump must really be fearing sometjhing if he plays this dangerous game.
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On November 11 2020 17:59 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2020 17:39 Biff The Understudy wrote:On November 11 2020 12:10 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 11 2020 09:51 Nevuk wrote:On November 11 2020 09:31 plasmidghost wrote:
So uh, I'm pretty fucking terrified of Trump purging the Pentagon to get his sycophants in charge Wouldn't work, even if he got them in charge. At least, it wouldn't work how Trump envisages it: He may be a wanna-be dictator (at this point, there's no way anyone can doubt this), but he's one with extremely narrow military support in the officer corps. The only way he can retain power is if he gets the military to literally go and start arresting any politicians who disagree with him or refuse to do his bidding. He's flatly not popular enough for that. His popularity among the enlisted has also radically fallen. I posted a poll a while back from Military Times that noted Biden was four points ahead of Trump in their polls of the military from all ranks (ie, it's a randomized poll of both officers and enlisted across all ranks). If Trump declares martial law, he has to have the military willing to back it with force. There are no absolutely no signs that they are. He'd need a full purge of the officer corps, not just the people in charge, and there isn't the time or the will for that. They won't kill or arrest US citizens, on US soil, just because Trump says to do it: these aren't the US police. Each US state also has its own military in the form of the national guard, which makes it even harder to do. (Even a plurality republicans already acknowledge that this result isn't going to be changed) So why not just use the police and not the military? Because he is not the commander in chief of the police? My point is just that it makes more sense to me for Trump to appeal to the massive, armed, recognized source of authority that overwhelmingly supports him and has been brutally repressing dissent for the past several months + Show Spoiler +(well pretty much their entire existence, but especially so since George Floyd) .
Well, sure but "the police" doesn't exist as a single entity; it's a myriads of police department, each with their chain of command that have nothing to do with the federal executive and whose hierarchies ultimately depends upon people who are certainly not on board with his BS.
He can call upon the police like he can call upon 2A people, although he might have more chances with the latter because they don't receive orders from a distinct, hostile hierarchy.
The army, on the other hand, has a unified hierarchy, and he is supposed to be the boss of the whole thing. You can imagine a world in which the POTUS puts general sympathetic to his authoritarian cause on charge and then, it's about whether inferior level folks actually disobey direct orders.
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On November 11 2020 21:08 KT_Elwood wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2020 17:52 Gorsameth wrote:
...
Maybe if Trump had a single ounce of credibility someone might have taken him seriously. But he doesn't so no one believes him, and why should they?
...
I am stunned that there seems to be a (growing?) huge number of people (in the US) that buy in into the narrative of the stolen election, despite being told what would happen step by step, despite TrumpCampaign holds no evidence of outcome changing fraud, despite claiming to love democracy. "I will only accept the result...if I win." Trump 2016 How can that statement alone not be enough to deconstruct all TrumpCampaign's works against the election ? And there are people that do not actually believe in the fraud accusations, but welcome the possibility of turning a lost election into a second trump term by just spewing accusations and doubt, in hope to push legislators to send Trump-men to EC, or for some miracle in court that would nullify Mail-In Ballots COUNTED (not even received) after election night. Or for some reason a SC that accepts that EC will consist of Trump-Men that do not vote in. Biden campaign seems not too worried. As was GoreCampaign in 2000... Meh.
You are talking about less than 20 percent. Unfortunately the very pro Trump supporters are just a very vocal and stupid base. If Trump is erased the collective IQ of the country goes up by at least 20.
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On November 11 2020 22:07 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2020 21:08 KT_Elwood wrote:On November 11 2020 17:52 Gorsameth wrote:
...
Maybe if Trump had a single ounce of credibility someone might have taken him seriously. But he doesn't so no one believes him, and why should they?
...
I am stunned that there seems to be a (growing?) huge number of people (in the US) that buy in into the narrative of the stolen election, despite being told what would happen step by step, despite TrumpCampaign holds no evidence of outcome changing fraud, despite claiming to love democracy. "I will only accept the result...if I win." Trump 2016 How can that statement alone not be enough to deconstruct all TrumpCampaign's works against the election ? And there are people that do not actually believe in the fraud accusations, but welcome the possibility of turning a lost election into a second trump term by just spewing accusations and doubt, in hope to push legislators to send Trump-men to EC, or for some miracle in court that would nullify Mail-In Ballots COUNTED (not even received) after election night. Or for some reason a SC that accepts that EC will consist of Trump-Men that do not vote in. Biden campaign seems not too worried. As was GoreCampaign in 2000... Meh. You are talking about less than 20 percent. Unfortunately the very pro Trump supporters are just a very vocal and stupid base. If Trump is erased the collective IQ of the country goes up by at least 20.
On November 11 2020 21:51 KungKras wrote:
This pentagon official thing has me honestly worried.
Trump must really be fearing sometjhing if he plays this dangerous game.
It's because he has a ton of lawsuits and other shit with jailtime that will go way beyond his death once he isn't President.
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On November 11 2020 22:09 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2020 22:07 StarStruck wrote:On November 11 2020 21:08 KT_Elwood wrote:On November 11 2020 17:52 Gorsameth wrote:
...
Maybe if Trump had a single ounce of credibility someone might have taken him seriously. But he doesn't so no one believes him, and why should they?
...
I am stunned that there seems to be a (growing?) huge number of people (in the US) that buy in into the narrative of the stolen election, despite being told what would happen step by step, despite TrumpCampaign holds no evidence of outcome changing fraud, despite claiming to love democracy. "I will only accept the result...if I win." Trump 2016 How can that statement alone not be enough to deconstruct all TrumpCampaign's works against the election ? And there are people that do not actually believe in the fraud accusations, but welcome the possibility of turning a lost election into a second trump term by just spewing accusations and doubt, in hope to push legislators to send Trump-men to EC, or for some miracle in court that would nullify Mail-In Ballots COUNTED (not even received) after election night. Or for some reason a SC that accepts that EC will consist of Trump-Men that do not vote in. Biden campaign seems not too worried. As was GoreCampaign in 2000... Meh. You are talking about less than 20 percent. Unfortunately the very pro Trump supporters are just a very vocal and stupid base. If Trump is erased the collective IQ of the country goes up by at least 20. Show nested quote +On November 11 2020 21:51 KungKras wrote:
This pentagon official thing has me honestly worried.
Trump must really be fearing sometjhing if he plays this dangerous game. It's because he has a ton of lawsuits and other shit with jailtime that will go way beyond his death once he isn't President.
So he pretty much has no choice but to stage a coup or he'll definitely go to jail?
Holy shit. I hope America is ready to deal with it when his attempt inevitably comes.
It's the people who have nothing to lose that are the most dangerous.
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Trump can't win, relax. Public support is all that matters in such a situation and people voting Trump doesn't mean they support abolishing democracy for him.
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Yeah, people should definitely stay vigilante but this situation is proving that the US still has strong systems in place to prevent totalitarianism. Our courts are dismissing his cases, our states are all proceeding with vote certification, and on December 14th it’ll be official.
If people still support Trump’s bid after the electors officially confirm Biden then they’re opposed to our very constitution.
The main damage here is going to be disenfranchisement and an ugly new precedent of the President refusing to transition the government. Could have disastrous consequences for the first year of the Biden administration and if it becomes normalized then a crises as a result of the new administration not knowing key information during the lame duck period is inevitable.
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EPT
