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On November 08 2020 11:51 Nevuk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2020 11:15 LegalLord wrote:On November 08 2020 08:39 Nevuk wrote:On November 08 2020 08:21 LegalLord wrote:On November 08 2020 07:54 Nevuk wrote:On November 08 2020 07:42 LegalLord wrote:If it’s not for corporate handouts, there simply aren’t enough trillions in the budget to afford something like getting rid of student debt. The money just isn’t there. I feel like you're being sarcastic, but am not 100% sure. If Biden doesn't do it, the GOP candidate elected in 2024 will, debt be damned. That's how much of a non starter the idea of not doing it is. Unless you're from the US you don't really have an idea of just how badly the <40 crowd has been affected by US student loans. This on top of going through a great recession and covid, both of which are going to damage our long term earnings. It is simply impossible to not cave to the biggest demand of the biggest voting bloc. Student debt was eventually going to be eliminated, that was obvious at least 8 years ago. Saying that you'll eliminate student debt then failing to do so is standard fare for getting a momentary bump in support from gullible young people. Delay payment and offer new repayment options, certainly - but no way, no how can it simply be written off. For instance, the housing bubble will collapse once people realize millennials literally can't afford houses. Student debt is just one of the many trillion-dollar debt bubbles that the US has, and not even the smartest one to tackle (given that unless you deal with the fundamental problem of education costs, it won't matter in the end). But promising it then failing to deliver is one of the best ways to make a million indebted graduates quiver with anticipation for debt relief. Student debt is different in that our entire economy is predicated on 25-55 year olds spending above their means, and student debt means that this "demo" will be spending 1/10 of what boomers did at their age. The economy will die if they don't stop the payments. For instance, the housing bubble will explode if people realize that millennials are too poor to buy housing. If these were debts being paid to a private company that'd be one thing. Instead, it's just straight to the government : these are essentially taxes that are narrowly targeted at a specific age group. Our older generations cut taxes and instead made us take out loans for things they got from their parent's taxes (education, which used to be far cheaper due to state funding). Whether the economy's current structure SHOULD die is a different question, but there's definitely no will to kick that hornet's nest (as should be indicated by this coming from Schumer, rather than Pelosi. For all that Pelosi is something of a centrist, she's always been much more open to progressive policies than Chuck). Your mistake is not in seeing student debt as important, but in thinking that it's somehow unique. There are many classes of debts in the US that shackle people to a poor economic situation. Being stuck with student debts is not much different than a car payment, house payment, medical bill, etc., that people can't afford that stops them from making other purchases more beneficial to the consumption-based economy. Each of these are trillion-dollar debt traps that show no sign of slowing down. The only real unique thing about student debt is that it's majority owned by the government, which means I suppose they could write it off if they're up for a haircut of a third of the federal government's assets. They're obviously no more interested in that than in unwinding the circumstances of all the other forms of self-destructive debt the US has spun up over the years for the majority of the population. Not that it matters anyways, since young people don't vote. Not worth wasting the effort it'd take to help them. Um, millennials+genz+genx were the largest voting group already 2 years ago. This isn't true, in the slightest. ![[image loading]](https://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/FT_19.05.23_GenerationsVoting_YoungergenerationsoutvotedBoomerpriorgenerations2018.png?resize=420,704) We're not only talking about Gen Z and young millenials only (who still voted at 56% rates in 2020). We aren't talking about 20 year olds. Student debt has been an issue in the US for anyone whose college years happened after 1996. I'm not arguing a value proposition here. I'm telling you, it's going to happen, regardless of how stupid of an idea it is to do it without systematic reform (I agree, very). That it's being proposed by known radical leftist, Chuck Schumer, should tell you that it's inevitable. It being owned purely by the government really does make it very different from those other issues. And the government has bailed out those bubbles when they've crashed in the past (specifically Real Estate and Cars). It's not a coincidence that as soon as milennials over took baby boomers as the biggest voting group, even Trump was deferring student loans. It's also generally viewed as an investment by the government to have an educated populace, which is how it usually gets spun.
Lumping in "up to age 55" with those most likely to have student debt (up to 40; notionally student debt is supposed to be a 10 year repayment period anyways) makes your results look quite contrived indeed. Student debt is an issue that biases younger - of that, there is little doubt. Indeed, by 30 years out of college most would be long since free of such debt.
Trump was also deferring mortgage and rent payments - are you also going to suggest that that means that free housing is in the cards? The government scrambled to bury all forms of debt as soon as coronavirus started impacting the country. But very little of it had to do with debt forgiveness, only deferral.
Being proposed by Schumer suggests to me that he wants McConnell to bury it in the Senate, which he would gladly oblige. That "forgive up to $50k under some circumstances" seems to be part of Biden's platform is perhaps slightly more meaningful. It'd be a wonder if anything were left of it after the appropriators in Congress were done with it, though.
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Schumer didn't propose it in the senate. He proposed that Biden issue an EO for it.
Edit:
You're also way underestimating student loans. By my estimates I'll be paying mine until I'm 45.
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On November 08 2020 11:58 NewSunshine wrote:
Debt acquired for post-secondary education has the unique distinction of being something attributed almost exclusively to younger people. That's the difference. Car and home debt are taken on all the time by people at all stages of their adult life, often with far more resources than someone who hasn't had a chance to start a career in an artificially bloated job market. Nothing technically makes the debt different, maybe whether the government holds it, but the context of the debt and the reason it's taken on in the first place are everything.
Being owned by the government is really the big one here. Not having a car, for example, is in much of the US just as big of a handicap as not having an education.
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On November 08 2020 12:06 Golgotha wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2020 12:02 Mohdoo wrote:
I hope all the dumb far left dip shits saying Biden doesn’t have the mental capability to be president watched Biden’s speech. This whole situation is so gratifying you mean the far right dip shits?
Both really. Just idiots in general
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On November 08 2020 12:21 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2020 12:06 Golgotha wrote:On November 08 2020 12:02 Mohdoo wrote:
I hope all the dumb far left dip shits saying Biden doesn’t have the mental capability to be president watched Biden’s speech. This whole situation is so gratifying you mean the far right dip shits? Both really. Just idiots in general
Folks on the right were simultaneously pretending that Trump isn't bordering on dementia while they went after Joe, so they're assumed to be beyond help.
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On November 08 2020 12:13 Nevuk wrote:
Schumer didn't propose it in the senate. He proposed that Biden issue an EO for it.
Well that'd certainly be something. I guess that could be done without legislative approval; hopefully they have a better plan for writing off that much debt than "add it to the deficit."
More likely they'll just find some narrow classes of student debt to forgive like every other president has done in the past. Obama and for-profits, Trump and disabled vets, and I'm sure Biden will find some special class of student debt to forgive, such as PSLF-ers that got screwed out of their 10-year service forgiveness. Reading what Biden's platform suggests, the conditions of forgiveness are laughable.
On November 08 2020 12:13 Nevuk wrote:
Edit:
You're also way underestimating student loans. By my estimates I'll be paying mine until I'm 45.
Notionally 10 years, because that's what kind of repayment plan seems to be pushed for. I'm well aware that under real-life circumstances it can take much longer. Nevertheless, lumping 50-year-olds in is pretty disingenuous because by then very few will still have a meaningful amount of student debt in play.
Edit: For at least some data of as much - Page 18. Notably the >$50k has the longest repayment period (obviously), but would include many in the high-income group that would be a lot less vulnerable than average to being buried by debt.
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Bisutopia19350 Posts
On November 08 2020 12:16 plasmidghost wrote:
Alright, Biden, I hope you deliver on your promises to the trans community. Lord knows we could really use some support
I’m genuinely curious l, what kind of support does the community need from the president? My brother in law is the president of PFlag in Jacksonville, so I get to see a lot of the trans community and open mindedness in the area. It would be really helpful to learn what you have to say so even if the president can’t do it, then at least we can.
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So the son in law drew the short straw.
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Cue the timer for how long until Trump claims to have never known Kushner, or Eric, or Don Jr., and that they're the worst people.
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United States10399 Posts
Over/under when Trump concedes?
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On November 08 2020 13:14 NewSunshine wrote:
Cue the timer for how long until Trump claims to have never known Kushner, or Eric, or Don Jr., and that they're the worst people.
"Ivanka met this guy. People say he's the worst. I've heard he the worst. I've never met him myself but that's what people say."
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So... What are the odds Trump is never invited to those "Current living presidents of the USA" events that they hold on a yearly? basis
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On November 08 2020 13:42 Lmui wrote:
So... What are the odds Trump is never invited to those "Current living presidents of the USA" events that they hold on a yearly? basis
Don't know, how many of those do you think Obama is going to attend?
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On November 08 2020 12:06 Golgotha wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2020 12:02 Mohdoo wrote:
I hope all the dumb far left dip shits saying Biden doesn’t have the mental capability to be president watched Biden’s speech. This whole situation is so gratifying you mean the far right dip shits?
Pretty sure he included those too, but he didn't misspoke. Far left dipshits is correct.
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On November 08 2020 13:47 m4ini wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2020 12:06 Golgotha wrote:On November 08 2020 12:02 Mohdoo wrote:
I hope all the dumb far left dip shits saying Biden doesn’t have the mental capability to be president watched Biden’s speech. This whole situation is so gratifying you mean the far right dip shits? Pretty sure he included those too, but he didn't misspoke. Far left dipshits is correct.
I think the question is whether people that identified he's lost a step or few over the last decade or so are supposed to be included in the critique.
Because that'd include people from Andrea Mitchell to Corey Booker to Julian Castro.
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On November 08 2020 13:47 m4ini wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2020 12:06 Golgotha wrote:On November 08 2020 12:02 Mohdoo wrote:
I hope all the dumb far left dip shits saying Biden doesn’t have the mental capability to be president watched Biden’s speech. This whole situation is so gratifying you mean the far right dip shits? Pretty sure he included those too, but he didn't misspoke. Far left dipshits is correct.
Look dude we can all ride with Biden, he's better than Trump that's great. I'm not going to pretend I don't see a difference between him talking in 2012 and him talking this year. Do as you please.
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I didn't mention either of you.
But here we are.
Do as you please.
You bet.
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On November 08 2020 14:17 m4ini wrote:I didn't mention either of you. But here we are. You bet.
Is a point about to come along with this?
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On November 08 2020 13:15 FlaShFTW wrote:Over/under when Trump concedes?
whatever it is, i’ll take the over.
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EPT
