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On November 07 2020 02:51 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2020 02:27 FlaShFTW wrote:On November 07 2020 02:24 TheCheapSkate wrote:
I just want to thank everybody participating in this thread, its by far the best real-time information about the election I was able to find! Still can't believe there are so many of you that could've used twitter, major news sources, or anything else as your main source, but y'all came here to a little gaming website to get your info. Proud to have been of service. o7 We definitely must do this again for next time. We aggregated that stuff though. Bunch of people all scraping different sources and reposting what they thought relevant.
Dont forget we also all had on different stations and could relay whats going on there as well. CNN had really good %total reports on what was needed for a flip
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United States10530 Posts
On November 07 2020 02:51 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2020 02:27 FlaShFTW wrote:On November 07 2020 02:24 TheCheapSkate wrote:
I just want to thank everybody participating in this thread, its by far the best real-time information about the election I was able to find! Still can't believe there are so many of you that could've used twitter, major news sources, or anything else as your main source, but y'all came here to a little gaming website to get your info. Proud to have been of service. o7 We definitely must do this again for next time. We aggregated that stuff though. Bunch of people all scraping different sources and reposting what they thought relevant.
Yeah, but aggregation means we have ears everywhere. Woj bombs could never compete with FlaSh bombs.
Also our shitposts are much better.
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United States44205 Posts
Trumpers: “Only Trump can keep the stock market valuations at these highs, he is solely responsible for it being so high”
Trump gets kicked out
Stock market: “This is good news, let’s go up in value”
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United States10530 Posts
On November 07 2020 02:56 KwarK wrote:
Trumpers: “Only Trump can keep the stock market valuations at these highs, he is solely responsible for it being so high”
Trump gets kicked out
Stock market: “This is good news, let’s go up in value”
my 401k is very happy to have survived this week.
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On November 07 2020 02:40 JimmiC wrote:
I wonder if the Reps are blocking a supreme court nominee with 3 years to go in Bidens term if that will fire up Dems enough to knock them out of the senate 2022, or motivate the rep voters to hold the senate. My guess is what McConnal will do will hinge on how he thinks it will work out for him and his senate power. I think self interest is above their desire to pack the courts.
I'm guessing you can't extend the number of SCOTUS judges without 60% of the senate right?
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On November 07 2020 02:57 Diavlo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2020 02:40 JimmiC wrote:
I wonder if the Reps are blocking a supreme court nominee with 3 years to go in Bidens term if that will fire up Dems enough to knock them out of the senate 2022, or motivate the rep voters to hold the senate. My guess is what McConnal will do will hinge on how he thinks it will work out for him and his senate power. I think self interest is above their desire to pack the courts. I'm guessing you can't extend the number of SCOTUS judges without 60% of the senate right?
not at all. You just need to get rid of the big buster. That only takes 50+1
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On November 07 2020 02:56 KwarK wrote:
Trumpers: “Only Trump can keep the stock market valuations at these highs, he is solely responsible for it being so high”
Trump gets kicked out
Stock market: “This is good news, let’s go up in value”
iirc the stock market temporarily tanked when Trump was elected in 2016
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That would entail winning the two Georgia runoff elections, right?
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On November 07 2020 02:59 Zambrah wrote:
That would entail winning the two Georgia runoff elections, right?
Yes, its not very likely but it could happen
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On November 07 2020 02:43 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
The breathtaking realization that Betsy DeVos will finally be gone in 2 months just hit me.
As an educator... I can't even.
Rumors had it that would be the case with Trump as well, but who knows what the replacement would be...
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If it happens itll be 100% due to Abrams, she has some serious game
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The networks really need to call this the instant Biden hits 0.5% in PA. It's starting to get irresponsible. I have friends who still think this is too close to call.
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On November 07 2020 03:00 IyMoon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2020 02:59 Zambrah wrote:
That would entail winning the two Georgia runoff elections, right? Yes, its not very likely but it could happen
Honestly I think the most likely path to 50 Senators for Dems right now is to win AK and one of the GA runoffs. And that's not very likely.
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United States10530 Posts
On November 07 2020 03:00 IyMoon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2020 02:59 Zambrah wrote:
That would entail winning the two Georgia runoff elections, right? Yes, its not very likely but it could happen
I anticipate a split senate from Georgia. People are not as willing to vote for the same party twice most likely, but I think that with both going to a run-off, the chances of getting at least one is very high.
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On November 07 2020 02:30 FlaShFTW wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2020 02:28 ChristianS wrote:On November 07 2020 01:57 FlaShFTW wrote:On November 07 2020 01:53 ChristianS wrote:On November 07 2020 00:50 FlaShFTW wrote:On November 07 2020 00:46 Nevuk wrote:
I don't think there's a need for Biden to childishly attack Trump. That's what we have late night comedians (and Obama) for. (Obama has been doing some pretty funny Trump roasts lately).
With that said, we can't let it end like Nixon where the president was pardoned of all crimes, got away with no actual punishment, and the US people never got the full story of what happened. That just paves the way for another Trump in the future.
There was an excellent piece in 2016 from some major college about how to deal with Trump supporters when he lost (they were way too hopeful), and it basically said to not talk about Trump with his supporters and just let them deal with it in their own way, as attacking them for voting for Trump would just make them dig in their heels and feel ashamed/embarassed . That's still good logic for me, but there's a difference between attacking his voters and his enablers. Yes. We don't heal this country by mocking the other side. We heal by coming together, letting those people sit and reflect, and then when they're ready, we break bread and discuss politics like civilized people. This didn't happen in 2016 when Trump supporters were gleeful and full on mocking/making really hurtful messages to the liberals who lost. Myself included. Took me a couple years to realize that all that does is sow the divisiveness in this country. We get a couple days to celebrate as Biden supporters, but after that, we calm down, we let the electoral process do it's job, we celebrate again on Inauguration day, and then we move forward. I don’t know what “healing the country” looks like in this environment. It’s not just that Republicans obviously have no interest in “coming together” (although I wonder how long we’ll keep seeing those “fuck your feelings” shirts in the wild). They’ve overridden basically every democratic norm as soon as it remotely impeded power acquisition. It far predates the last four years, they still have most of the spoils of those moves, and they’ve given no indication whatsoever of stopping. If GA goes how we should expect, and they retain the Senate, it’s very unlikely they’ll let Biden appoint a cabinet. If any judge seats need to be filled, they’ll leave them vacant until either they get back the White House, or Dems get back the Senate. Meanwhile every Dem state legislature will appoint an independent commission for drawing district lines, while every Republican state legislature will find the mathematically optimal configuration for maximum Republican seats with minimum persuaded voters. The only part of what I just said that seems likely to change is Dems deciding they have to gerrymander too to stay competitive. Like, if this had been a landslide maybe some Republicans would pretend some contrition and appeal to restoring norms now that it would hurt them, but with this outcome they can stay the course, and almost certainly take back the House in 2022 while vowing to make Biden a 1 term president. What healing is to be done there? With Trump out of the office, there is a lot more potential for Republicans to move back to the center a bit. Trump took them on a wide ride, I'm sure a lot of them only hopped onto the train to stay in good faith with the Republican electorate. There is healing, you just have to look for it. Dems shouldn't be using this line of thought of "well they won't want to heal so why should we?" Dems should be, and are, the party with the higher moral ground and standing. Now they have to act like it. You can call out Republicans when they refuse to budge, you can call them out when they make really outlandish statements, but I'm done with the whole fuck them we'll do it ourselves argument. Hyper-modern politics is a disease. It's a tumor that continues to grow. Either we do some radiation and chemo, or we let the tumor grow. We have to at least try. I mean if I were a national political figure I’d probably say “now it’s time for Republicans and Democrats to come together to tackle the many pressing problems facing our nation” or something similar, and push policy proposals the same way I would if I didn’t think Republican officials are soulless. If they decided to “come together” the door would be open. But come January Biden tries to appoint, I don’t know, Stacey Abrams to his cabinet. Do I think that is remotely likely to happen? Suppose Clarence Thomas dies in a couple years and Biden nominates Merrick Garland. Do I think they’re remotely likely to confirm him? Republicans control 4x as many state legislatures as Democrats for redistricting. Am I honestly supposed to expect those Republican states won’t have an order of magnitude more wasted D votes than R votes come midterms? Like, they spent the last 10 years breaking down any norm or institution that would keep them from gaining and keeping power. Not only is there zero contrition about having done it, they’re *still doing* the ones they still have power over, and have shown no sign of stopping. Like, fine, I think Dems shouldn’t stoop to the same “fuck your feelings” discourse. They should keep their eye on the horizon and focus on all of the shitty things that were killing us four years ago and have only gotten worse. One wonders if they even have the solutions and willingness to execute them within their own caucus, regardless of the Republicans, but they should concentrate there because that’s what actually matters. But with Republicans in control of the Senate they’re better off focusing their energy on what they can accomplish by EO than trying to find some bipartisan solution Republicans will agree to. That sucks, considering one of those shitty things killing us is ever-expanding executive powers, but they don’t exactly have a ton of cards to play. I think I agree to every thing you have just said, but maybe our views diverge on what we consider to be "unity". Unity does not mean Dems should just give everything to Reps to appease them. That's not what I meant to imply. Dems should still fight and fight hard, just not try to employ so many of the dirty tactics that Republicans employed during their tenure.
Yeah, I feel like how this usually goes is Republicans do the dirty tactic without hesitation, then Dems have a big crisis of conscience of whether to reciprocate or stay principled (most likely outcome is something like “half-hearted attempt to stay principled with a late switch to some tactic both kind of dirty and ineffectual”). Meanwhile Republicans will look at Dem discourse about it, highlight a few of the Dems advocating the hardest line, and say “see? They would have done it too” as retroactive justification.
It’s kind of a rigged game for Dems but I’d probably favor just staying “principled,” whatever that winds up meaning. Hard to find a good outcome either way, but maybe over time they can scrape together a little bit of credibility to call out these problems later. Or maybe they can at least lose and feel good about it. It won’t stop the Republicans from doing the retroactive justification (especially since the principled choice might be something they still see as a power grab, e.g. DC and PR statehood or court reform), but nothing was gonna stop that anyway.
Where you and I probably agree most is they shouldn’t reciprocate the “own the libs” type of schadenfreude. Sure, it was funny to watch Karl Rove freak out in 2012, and it might be fun to watch Trump sad trombone out of the White House, but in general that stuff is kind of craven and it doesn’t help anybody.
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On November 07 2020 03:00 Zambrah wrote:
If it happens itll be 100% due to Abrams, she has some serious game
Clyburn, Abrams, John Lewis' spirit, the enthusiasm of black voters in Detroit, Philly, Milwaukee and Atlanta made this possible.
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United States10530 Posts
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Hyrule19232 Posts
On November 07 2020 02:56 KwarK wrote:
Trumpers: “Only Trump can keep the stock market valuations at these highs, he is solely responsible for it being so high”
Trump gets kicked out
Stock market: “This is good news, let’s go up in value”
stock market up because of Trump, it tracks.
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United States10530 Posts
On November 07 2020 03:03 ChristianS wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2020 02:30 FlaShFTW wrote:On November 07 2020 02:28 ChristianS wrote:On November 07 2020 01:57 FlaShFTW wrote:On November 07 2020 01:53 ChristianS wrote:On November 07 2020 00:50 FlaShFTW wrote:On November 07 2020 00:46 Nevuk wrote:
I don't think there's a need for Biden to childishly attack Trump. That's what we have late night comedians (and Obama) for. (Obama has been doing some pretty funny Trump roasts lately).
With that said, we can't let it end like Nixon where the president was pardoned of all crimes, got away with no actual punishment, and the US people never got the full story of what happened. That just paves the way for another Trump in the future.
There was an excellent piece in 2016 from some major college about how to deal with Trump supporters when he lost (they were way too hopeful), and it basically said to not talk about Trump with his supporters and just let them deal with it in their own way, as attacking them for voting for Trump would just make them dig in their heels and feel ashamed/embarassed . That's still good logic for me, but there's a difference between attacking his voters and his enablers. Yes. We don't heal this country by mocking the other side. We heal by coming together, letting those people sit and reflect, and then when they're ready, we break bread and discuss politics like civilized people. This didn't happen in 2016 when Trump supporters were gleeful and full on mocking/making really hurtful messages to the liberals who lost. Myself included. Took me a couple years to realize that all that does is sow the divisiveness in this country. We get a couple days to celebrate as Biden supporters, but after that, we calm down, we let the electoral process do it's job, we celebrate again on Inauguration day, and then we move forward. I don’t know what “healing the country” looks like in this environment. It’s not just that Republicans obviously have no interest in “coming together” (although I wonder how long we’ll keep seeing those “fuck your feelings” shirts in the wild). They’ve overridden basically every democratic norm as soon as it remotely impeded power acquisition. It far predates the last four years, they still have most of the spoils of those moves, and they’ve given no indication whatsoever of stopping. If GA goes how we should expect, and they retain the Senate, it’s very unlikely they’ll let Biden appoint a cabinet. If any judge seats need to be filled, they’ll leave them vacant until either they get back the White House, or Dems get back the Senate. Meanwhile every Dem state legislature will appoint an independent commission for drawing district lines, while every Republican state legislature will find the mathematically optimal configuration for maximum Republican seats with minimum persuaded voters. The only part of what I just said that seems likely to change is Dems deciding they have to gerrymander too to stay competitive. Like, if this had been a landslide maybe some Republicans would pretend some contrition and appeal to restoring norms now that it would hurt them, but with this outcome they can stay the course, and almost certainly take back the House in 2022 while vowing to make Biden a 1 term president. What healing is to be done there? With Trump out of the office, there is a lot more potential for Republicans to move back to the center a bit. Trump took them on a wide ride, I'm sure a lot of them only hopped onto the train to stay in good faith with the Republican electorate. There is healing, you just have to look for it. Dems shouldn't be using this line of thought of "well they won't want to heal so why should we?" Dems should be, and are, the party with the higher moral ground and standing. Now they have to act like it. You can call out Republicans when they refuse to budge, you can call them out when they make really outlandish statements, but I'm done with the whole fuck them we'll do it ourselves argument. Hyper-modern politics is a disease. It's a tumor that continues to grow. Either we do some radiation and chemo, or we let the tumor grow. We have to at least try. I mean if I were a national political figure I’d probably say “now it’s time for Republicans and Democrats to come together to tackle the many pressing problems facing our nation” or something similar, and push policy proposals the same way I would if I didn’t think Republican officials are soulless. If they decided to “come together” the door would be open. But come January Biden tries to appoint, I don’t know, Stacey Abrams to his cabinet. Do I think that is remotely likely to happen? Suppose Clarence Thomas dies in a couple years and Biden nominates Merrick Garland. Do I think they’re remotely likely to confirm him? Republicans control 4x as many state legislatures as Democrats for redistricting. Am I honestly supposed to expect those Republican states won’t have an order of magnitude more wasted D votes than R votes come midterms? Like, they spent the last 10 years breaking down any norm or institution that would keep them from gaining and keeping power. Not only is there zero contrition about having done it, they’re *still doing* the ones they still have power over, and have shown no sign of stopping. Like, fine, I think Dems shouldn’t stoop to the same “fuck your feelings” discourse. They should keep their eye on the horizon and focus on all of the shitty things that were killing us four years ago and have only gotten worse. One wonders if they even have the solutions and willingness to execute them within their own caucus, regardless of the Republicans, but they should concentrate there because that’s what actually matters. But with Republicans in control of the Senate they’re better off focusing their energy on what they can accomplish by EO than trying to find some bipartisan solution Republicans will agree to. That sucks, considering one of those shitty things killing us is ever-expanding executive powers, but they don’t exactly have a ton of cards to play. I think I agree to every thing you have just said, but maybe our views diverge on what we consider to be "unity". Unity does not mean Dems should just give everything to Reps to appease them. That's not what I meant to imply. Dems should still fight and fight hard, just not try to employ so many of the dirty tactics that Republicans employed during their tenure. Yeah, I feel like how this usually goes is Republicans do the dirty tactic without hesitation, then Dems have a big crisis of conscience of whether to reciprocate or stay principled (most likely outcome is something like “half-hearted attempt to stay principled with a late switch to some tactic both kind of dirty and ineffectual”). Meanwhile Republicans will look at Dem discourse about it, highlight a few of the Dems advocating the hardest line, and say “see? They would have done it too” as retroactive justification. It’s kind of a rigged game for Dems but I’d probably favor just staying “principled,” whatever that winds up meaning. Hard to find a good outcome either way, but maybe over time they can scrape together a little bit of credibility to call out these problems later. Or maybe they can at least lose and feel good about it. It won’t stop the Republicans from doing the retroactive justification (especially since the principled choice might be something they still see as a power grab, e.g. DC and PR statehood or court reform), but nothing was gonna stop that anyway. Where you and I probably agree most is they shouldn’t reciprocate the “own the libs” type of schadenfreude. Sure, it was funny to watch Karl Rove freak out in 2012, and it might be fun to watch Trump sad trombone out of the White House, but in general that stuff is kind of craven and it doesn’t help anybody.
I think Dems can internally have that "LOLOLOL" feeling as they watch Biden take control of the White House on inauguration day. But on the outside they should stay calm, cooled, and principled. Dems still have a lot of soul searching within the party itself, no doubt AOC is going to try to put together an even larger coalition to challenge Pelosi for her seat as Speaker. I tend to agree, I think the principled route, even if Dems take a couple losses, might be best. Just rise above, they'll gain the credibility they need to push through more votes eventually and hopefully rebalance the courts.
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EPT
