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On March 21 2020 03:19 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:627 deaths in Italy today. Numbers still rising every day. I wonder where the ceiling is. It's scary, and I expect other countries to follow Italy's curve 
Don't know about Italy, but worst case projections for the US put the total toll likely in the hundreds of thousands. Same goes for the UK (tens of thousands is a safer estimate, since it says 250k)
I was reading horror stories about how people were lined up in impoverished senior centers for the Dem primary and got sick to my stomach. A lot of vulnerable people are going to die because of the irresponsibility of our leaders.
This thread reminds me that many of us aren't alone in that across the world.
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So, apologies for the earlier hyperbole, but I'm literally snapping at every opportunity to think that this lockdown and economic self-destruction has to end, and the article essentially said you can get peeps virus free in as little as 6 days with the combination.
Add to it the fact that most under 60 will do just fine even without treatment, unless there's something we aren't being told.
I wanted to get an approval for my vaccines to be in order so I could volunteer at a hospital, but since I was corona symptomatic for a week, I need to wait another week. Then I'll probably be tested for it. No reply to the question about when someone counts as cured.
Getting bored to death here, so tomorrow I'll just call the local supermarkets and ask if they need someone to help restock the shelves. Sigh.
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For many here the dead are just numbers.
I'm happy to see that politicians here think of everyone as people.
Edit: apart from the non Europeans I mean
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On March 21 2020 04:23 Artisreal wrote:
For many here the dead are just numbers.
I'm happy to see that politicians here think of everyone as people.
Edit: apart from the non Europeans I mean
In an emergency with limited resources, tough choices have to be made.
Italy already implemented a lot of 'inhumane' measures like selective assignment to ICU beds, simply because being ethical is unethical under some circumstances.
Source: https://www.politico.eu/article/coronavirus-italy-doctors-tough-calls-survival/
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On March 21 2020 05:00 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2020 04:23 Artisreal wrote:
For many here the dead are just numbers.
I'm happy to see that politicians here think of everyone as people.
Edit: apart from the non Europeans I mean In an emergency with limited resources, tough choices have to be made. Italy already implemented a lot of 'inhumane' measures like selective assignment to ICU beds, simply because being ethical is unethical under some circumstances. Source: https://www.politico.eu/article/coronavirus-italy-doctors-tough-calls-survival/
Yup they are in triage mode. The shut down is to stop other countries from reaching it as well.
Anybody have ideas for good replacements of a broomstick or similar for "rowing" and other body weight home exercises? Can't think of anything I have and feels kind of strange trying to go out and shop for one when you want to limit spread of diseases.
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Canadian healthcare update during Covid 19:
We are legally required to report if we have symptoms otherwise there is a fine.
I have been on the phone for over 10-11 hours total and have talked to 0 human beings yet. I have not been able to report my symptoms to a human being or even an automated message. I have however gotten extremely familiar with the hold music and the covid-19 chat. I have also gotten used to the message 'we cannot take your call.'
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/panicked-and-worried-callers-concerned-about-covid-19-left-hanging-after-telehealth-crashes-1.5501996
As I expected, the callback feature didn't work. 12 hours on the phone for nothing.
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I've got like nothing heavy to use as weights. Might sound kinda selfish but I hate the fact that I can't go to the gym because of all this. I hate running.
Italy's numbers are insane. The storm will pass.
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On March 21 2020 05:07 Yurie wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2020 05:00 Vivax wrote:On March 21 2020 04:23 Artisreal wrote:
For many here the dead are just numbers.
I'm happy to see that politicians here think of everyone as people.
Edit: apart from the non Europeans I mean In an emergency with limited resources, tough choices have to be made. Italy already implemented a lot of 'inhumane' measures like selective assignment to ICU beds, simply because being ethical is unethical under some circumstances. Source: https://www.politico.eu/article/coronavirus-italy-doctors-tough-calls-survival/ Yup they are in triage mode. The shut down is to stop other countries from reaching it as well. Anybody have ideas for good replacements of a broomstick or similar for "rowing" and other body weight home exercises? Can't think of anything I have and feels kind of strange trying to go out and shop for one when you want to limit spread of diseases.
This book is the best for bodyweight and diy training ideas... He is selling it for 1$ right now:
http://rosstraining.com/blog/never-gymless/
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The governor of California announced a state-wide shelter-in-place order yesterday. Included in that order is indication that all “non-essential” businesses shut down “until further notice.” I called my supervisor about 10 minutes later to ask if I was supposed to go into work today, he said he didn’t know. He called back a couple hours later after talking to his boss; they were looking through covid19.ca.gov and thought we might fall under the “chemical sector” carve-out for “critical infrastructure,” but the decision would have to be made by corporate, and it was the middle of the night in their time zone. In the morning there was an email from corporate saying because we’re involved in “safety testing,” we’re “critical infrastructure” and if we miss work we’ll have to use PTO.
While I kinda liked the idea of an indefinite vacation, it’s almost certainly good news for me that they’re keeping us open. Our lab hasn’t been profitable for years, but corporate never shut us down because there are a lot of complicated and expensive “business continuity”-type problems they’d have to solve to shut us down completely. Easier to keep bleeding away money indefinitely. If they had to shut us down, and were forced to solve a lot of those problems anyway, I doubt they’d ever open us up again.
Legally, I have no idea what qualifies as “critical infrastructure,” but in reality, I can’t see how we qualify. We’re a research lab doing analysis of biological samples for drug companies. They send us their stuff (rat plasma, human serum, monkey whole blood, whatever) and we tell them how much of something is in it (usually, how much of their drug candidate is present in samples at different time points after dosing). None of our work is remotely related to coronavirus (mass spec isn’t generally people’s first choice for that work), and none of it contributes to the administering of healthcare in the next 6 months; our work, at best, helps get new medications on the market within the next several years. I don’t know how that can possibly be called “critical infrastructure.”
Judging from Newsom’s announcement, the state isn’t looking to pick big legal fights over this. The order is mostly just signaling, they’re hoping people will comply voluntarily. But I can’t see it ending well for “critical infrastructure” classification to be such a huge determining factor in which businesses succeed and fail. A lab right next door to us could decide to obey the order, call all their clients and tell them to find another lab to validate an analytical method and analyze their samples, and shut down. They might never open again either. Meanwhile by deciding to stay open, we might get a bunch of their clients (maybe even make a profit for once!).
I don’t have any particular complaint about the governor’s decision here, but asking everybody to close down out of public-spiritedness is inevitably going to create a lot of “tragedy of the commons” type problems. In theory stuff like the stimulus package is supposed to collectivize the damage from all this so nobody gets stuck with way more of the burden than everyone else, but it seems inevitable there will be big winners and big losers in whatever deal they come up with. Our company would presumably just as much stimulus money as one that did shut down; then we’d be way in the black while they barely survived (if that).
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![[image loading]](https://i.ibb.co/J2szVKq/ha.png)
User was warned for this post.
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I keep seeing this "SAVE YOUR LOCAL RESTAURANTS BY GETTING DELIVERY" and yet I find myself replying "Fuck that, get the fuck away from me, I don't want your contaminated shit".
No matter how you slice it, interacting with either food provided by someone not in quarantine is worse than otherwise. This crusade to save small businesses through infection seems really stupid.
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On March 21 2020 07:11 Mohdoo wrote:
I keep seeing this "SAVE YOUR LOCAL RESTAURANTS BY GETTING DELIVERY" and yet I find myself replying "Fuck that, get the fuck away from me, I don't want your contaminated shit".
No matter how you slice it, interacting with either food provided by someone not in quarantine is worse than otherwise. This crusade to save small businesses through infection seems really stupid.
Q: What measures are FDA (and CDC, state partners, etc.) taking to ensure that we remain able to address foodborne illness outbreaks during the COVID-19 pandemic?
Unlike foodborne gastrointestinal (GI) viruses like norovirus and hepatitis A that often make people ill through contaminated food, SARS-CoV-2, which causes COVID-19, is a virus that causes respiratory, not gastrointestinal, illness. Foodborne exposure to this virus is not known to be a route of transmission.
Source: https://www.fda.gov/food/food-safety-during-emergencies/food-safety-and-coronavirus-disease-2019-covid-19
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On March 21 2020 07:24 SC-Shield wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2020 07:11 Mohdoo wrote:
I keep seeing this "SAVE YOUR LOCAL RESTAURANTS BY GETTING DELIVERY" and yet I find myself replying "Fuck that, get the fuck away from me, I don't want your contaminated shit".
No matter how you slice it, interacting with either food provided by someone not in quarantine is worse than otherwise. This crusade to save small businesses through infection seems really stupid. Show nested quote +Q: What measures are FDA (and CDC, state partners, etc.) taking to ensure that we remain able to address foodborne illness outbreaks during the COVID-19 pandemic?
Unlike foodborne gastrointestinal (GI) viruses like norovirus and hepatitis A that often make people ill through contaminated food, SARS-CoV-2, which causes COVID-19, is a virus that causes respiratory, not gastrointestinal, illness. Foodborne exposure to this virus is not known to be a route of transmission. Source: https://www.fda.gov/food/food-safety-during-emergencies/food-safety-and-coronavirus-disease-2019-covid-19
But what if the delivery driver is infected, sneezes on the food container, I touch food container and get sick? Is that not a valid method of transmission?
Another thing: Because anyone who would be delivering food to me would be in a very bad economic position, they would also be less likely to report symptoms out of fear of paying their rent or caring for their families. In short, I can't trust the delivery person.
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On March 21 2020 07:27 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2020 07:24 SC-Shield wrote:On March 21 2020 07:11 Mohdoo wrote:
I keep seeing this "SAVE YOUR LOCAL RESTAURANTS BY GETTING DELIVERY" and yet I find myself replying "Fuck that, get the fuck away from me, I don't want your contaminated shit".
No matter how you slice it, interacting with either food provided by someone not in quarantine is worse than otherwise. This crusade to save small businesses through infection seems really stupid. Q: What measures are FDA (and CDC, state partners, etc.) taking to ensure that we remain able to address foodborne illness outbreaks during the COVID-19 pandemic?
Unlike foodborne gastrointestinal (GI) viruses like norovirus and hepatitis A that often make people ill through contaminated food, SARS-CoV-2, which causes COVID-19, is a virus that causes respiratory, not gastrointestinal, illness. Foodborne exposure to this virus is not known to be a route of transmission. Source: https://www.fda.gov/food/food-safety-during-emergencies/food-safety-and-coronavirus-disease-2019-covid-19 But what if the delivery driver is infected, sneezes on the food container, I touch food container and get sick? Is that not a valid method of transmission?
There is a risk all the time but you could take extra steps to reduce it in that specific case. E.g. gloves, then transfer food from container to your plate (still using gloves), wearing a mask when communicating with driver face to face, etc. You could also get sick from just going to shop, btw. You can't reduce risk to 0. 
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Some local news media have been doing a lot on how to do take-out safely, and so long as you transfer the food to containers and then wash hands in the appropriate order, the chance of contact is exceedingly low. It's also worth nothing that so long as you don't touch your face, having some viral material on your hands is manageable with well-timed hand washing and a focus on avoiding the close breath droplet contact.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
On March 21 2020 07:11 Mohdoo wrote:
I keep seeing this "SAVE YOUR LOCAL RESTAURANTS BY GETTING DELIVERY" and yet I find myself replying "Fuck that, get the fuck away from me, I don't want your contaminated shit".
No matter how you slice it, interacting with either food provided by someone not in quarantine is worse than otherwise. This crusade to save small businesses through infection seems really stupid.
I still get food to-go often enough. Partially because I can't subside on just nonperishable food forever, and I'd have gotten take-out anyways in a saner world. I find the risk to be relatively well-contained, given that the interaction is fairly limited (brief exchange of credit card for goods, wash hands with sanitizer right after) and that unless you're one hell of a prepper, there's no way to avoid having to leave home for some essentials. Removing the dine-in aspect significantly reduces spread; it's impossible to completely avoid it. The clientele is more dangerous than the to-go clerk, if by numbers alone (and if they have good sanitation procedures that are actually followed that's a bonus).
All that said, I've definitely noticed a significant decline in the quality of service from many locations over the past three weeks. When you're the only patron they've had for an hour, they really don't give a shit about making sure you're treated right. It's definitely an incentive to eat out even less.
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On March 21 2020 07:32 SC-Shield wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2020 07:27 Mohdoo wrote:On March 21 2020 07:24 SC-Shield wrote:On March 21 2020 07:11 Mohdoo wrote:
I keep seeing this "SAVE YOUR LOCAL RESTAURANTS BY GETTING DELIVERY" and yet I find myself replying "Fuck that, get the fuck away from me, I don't want your contaminated shit".
No matter how you slice it, interacting with either food provided by someone not in quarantine is worse than otherwise. This crusade to save small businesses through infection seems really stupid. Q: What measures are FDA (and CDC, state partners, etc.) taking to ensure that we remain able to address foodborne illness outbreaks during the COVID-19 pandemic?
Unlike foodborne gastrointestinal (GI) viruses like norovirus and hepatitis A that often make people ill through contaminated food, SARS-CoV-2, which causes COVID-19, is a virus that causes respiratory, not gastrointestinal, illness. Foodborne exposure to this virus is not known to be a route of transmission. Source: https://www.fda.gov/food/food-safety-during-emergencies/food-safety-and-coronavirus-disease-2019-covid-19 But what if the delivery driver is infected, sneezes on the food container, I touch food container and get sick? Is that not a valid method of transmission? There is a risk all the time but you could take extra steps to reduce it in that specific case. E.g. gloves, then transfer food from container to your plate (still using gloves), wearing a mask when communicating with driver face to face, etc. You could also get sick from just going to shop, btw. You can't reduce risk to 0.
True, but I could also just not do any of this and reduce my risk. If I already have a month of food, spending extra money (who knows if I'll get laid off?) on take out for extra risk feels insane.
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We're using it as an excuse to buy tasty food and support local joints we like, and because I think there'll be a point where some of these places trying the take-out thing will have to close after giving it a shot, I wanna get some before its gone. Places that focus on delivery/take-out are doing fairly well as far as I can tell.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
On March 21 2020 07:36 farvacola wrote:
We're using it as an excuse to buy tasty food and support local joints we like, and because I think there'll be a point where some of these places trying the take-out thing will have to close after giving it a shot, I wanna get some before its gone. Places that focus on delivery/take-out are doing fairly well as far as I can tell.
I expect that many of the traditionally eat-in food joints I like are already in a precarious financial position, and this will push them over the edge. A lot of the very novel food court shops / restaurants in my nearby luxury mall were doing pretty well, but are almost certain not to be around once the dust has settled. Might as well offer them one last bit of patronage while I still have the chance.
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Northern Ireland25513 Posts
On March 21 2020 07:43 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2020 07:36 farvacola wrote:
We're using it as an excuse to buy tasty food and support local joints we like, and because I think there'll be a point where some of these places trying the take-out thing will have to close after giving it a shot, I wanna get some before its gone. Places that focus on delivery/take-out are doing fairly well as far as I can tell. I expect that many of the traditionally eat-in food joints I like are already in a precarious financial position, and this will push them over the edge. A lot of the very novel food court shops / restaurants in my nearby luxury mall were doing pretty well, but are almost certain not to be around once the dust has settled. Might as well offer them one last bit of patronage while I still have the chance.
Hey we’ve all got to live a little too, small creature comforts will keep people sane and the mental health ramifications of the current state of affairs are something that’s not been discussed much at all.
Provided the restaurant is sensible I’d say from working in retail your risks going to the store are considerably higher anyway. Not just relying on (in our case hundreds) of rotating staff being hygienic not to mention all the customer footfalll.
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