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Any and all updates regarding the COVID-19 will need a source provided. Please do your part in helping us to keep this thread maintainable and under control. It is YOUR responsibility to fully read through the sources that you link, and you MUST provide a brief summary explaining what the source is about. Do not expect other people to do the work for you. Conspiracy theories and fear mongering will absolutely not be tolerated in this thread. Expect harsh mod actions if you try to incite fear needlessly. This is not a politics thread! You are allowed to post information regarding politics if it's related to the coronavirus, but do NOT discuss politics in here. Added a disclaimer on page 662. Many need to post better. | ||
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SC-Shield
Bulgaria867 Posts
On March 20 2020 22:21 GreenHorizons wrote: Should I sell the ones I have to the closest hospital instead of neighbors then? $5 each (cost ~$0.60 for me) sound fair? This is neither funny nor ethical. I can't tell if you're serious or joking, but either way, not funny. If you have spare masks and don't need them, then just donate them to a hospital or older people. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States24055 Posts
On March 20 2020 22:45 SC-Shield wrote: This is neither funny nor ethical. I can't tell if you're serious or joking, but either way, not funny. If you have spare masks and don't need them, then just donate them to a hospital or older people. I don't understand why I, not a wealthy person, should give mine away (bought them months ago, but any of you can order some yourselves right now) while corporations like amazon sell the ones they have? | ||
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SC-Shield
Bulgaria867 Posts
On March 20 2020 22:47 GreenHorizons wrote: I don't understand why I, not a wealthy person, should give mine away (bought them months ago, but any of you can order some yourselves right now) while corporations like amazon sell the ones they have? Making masks cost money, so it's right if they sell them as long as they don't inflate price. It would be even better if they donate a certain amount, but go figure why. I was criticising your suggestion to sell masks at a significant price increase. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States24055 Posts
On March 20 2020 22:50 SC-Shield wrote: Making masks cost money, so it's right if they sell them as long as they don't inflate price. It would be even better if they donate a certain amount, but go figure why. I was criticising your suggestion to sell masks at a significant price increase. I should have mentioned they'd be getting a bargain from me at $5 a mask as you can see others are charging $7 | ||
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anon3297534
14 Posts
On March 20 2020 22:13 Belisarius wrote: That's correct except that most western countries barely have enough masks for critical medical personnel as it is. The whole way through the crisis, it's been true that making masks mandatory would reduce the spread, but we've never been able to do it because the masks themselves don't exist in the numbers needed. Asian countries have done much better at this because a lot more people habitually own and wear masks anyway. So instead of leveling with us, they reach at straws and concoct these stories about why they don't work and create stigma for those that do wear masks. Their claim that masks might also increase infection because people might inadvertantly touch their faces more often is a POSITIVE proposition with the onus of evidence on THEM. When they are repeating that there is NO evidence that masks work, it's a little fresh to claim the exact opposite without providing evidence of it. Can you also believe that a health professional also stated as an answer to a question of whether masks work by saying, 'well, people who are coughing shouldn't be outside anyways so there's that' before repeating the line about increased face contact. Sorry, what? Another area where they haven't been totally honest with us. Now, we find out case numbers are not tallying with local numbers coming out of Ontario on a daily basis, and I've lost a lot of respect for our authorities. | ||
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FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Netherlands30548 Posts
On March 20 2020 22:55 anon3297534 wrote: Can you also believe that a health professional also stated as an answer to a question of whether masks work by saying, 'well, people who are coughing shouldn't be outside anyways so there's that' before repeating the line about increased face contact. Sorry, what? . I don't see what's wrong with this statement. Masks reduces chance of contact with the virus, so the same effect can be achieved by keeping coughing people inside and keeping a personal distance to other people in general as is presribed in most countries now. Meanwhile doctors and nurses don't have this luxury of keeping distance, so the masks need to go to them. I think the talking point of 'masks don't work' is about protecting against the virus, which they don't. They are not airtight and not virus tight. Doctors still die. It would be equally bad for people to think they are safe while wearing a paper face mask and then ignore distancing. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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stilt
France2755 Posts
On March 20 2020 23:16 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: I don't see what's wrong with this statement. Masks reduces chance of contact with the virus, so the same effect can be achieved by keeping coughing people inside and keeping a personal distance to other people in general as is presribed in most countries now. Meanwhile doctors and nurses don't have this luxury of keeping distance, so the masks need to go to them. I think the talking point of 'masks don't work' is about protecting against the virus, which they don't. They are not airtight and not virus tight. Doctors still die. It would be equally bad for people to think they are safe while wearing a paper face mask and then ignore distancing. The concern is "the masks are useless" rhetoric appeared because of a lack of masks, I feel like it's more like the gov covering their own failures. Especially when a lot of workers (cashiers, policemen, firemen) who are still in contact with a large chunck of people aren't covered. | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France8118 Posts
On March 20 2020 23:30 stilt wrote: The concern is "the masks are useless" rhetoric appeared because of a lack of masks, I feel like it's more like the gov covering their own failures. Especially when a lot of workers (cashiers, policemen, firemen) who are still in contact with a large chunck of people aren't covered. It's clear at that point that it's not that masks are useless but that they are infinitely more useful to certain people (hospital staff f.e) and that since there is a shortage, every mask worn by a non infected civilian is a mask not worn by someone who really needs it. I expect everyone to wear a mask in a few months if this nightmare caries on. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States24055 Posts
On March 20 2020 23:30 stilt wrote: The concern is "the masks are useless" rhetoric appeared because of a lack of masks, I feel like it's more like the gov covering their own failures. Especially when a lot of workers (cashiers, policemen, firemen) who are still in contact with a large chunck of people aren't covered. Right? People's impulse to demand I give mine away to hospitals and accuse me of being unethical doesn't reflect the situation or power dynamics at play accurately imo. The only reason I'd sell them to the hospital though is to get more, not to profit for those that assumed otherwise. Anyone know what happened to 55 million expired masks in Ontario? Because they'd be better than what a lot of medical professionals in the US are resorting to currently. | ||
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Artisreal
Germany9235 Posts
I am hardly able to control my face touching habits and with a mask I suspect it'd be harder even. I'll just try to cycle and stay away from people. Sad thing is though that I'm dependent on their cooperation for that if I want to go to the store. | ||
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anon3297534
14 Posts
I don't see what's wrong with this statement. Masks reduces chance of contact with the virus, so the same effect can be achieved by keeping coughing people inside and keeping a personal distance to other people in general as is presribed in most countries now. You're right, but the first part of the answer was clearly a dodge. I could've also answered a question as to whether we need to test people at all for the virus, simply by saying 'why test? anyone who has any flu or cold like symptoms should be staying home anyways, and reduce even the small chance of transmission by heading to the testing center.' I think the talking point of 'masks don't work' is about protecting against the virus, which they don't. They are not airtight and not virus tight. Doctors still die. It would be equally bad for people to think they are safe while wearing a paper face mask and then ignore distancing. I take this point. It could definitely create a false sense of security. I would've been delighted to hear this from a health professional. None, and I mean none, of the interviews I've heard has even addressed this. BTW: TTC transit workers are now allowed to wear masks, after initially having denied them the right. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27056 Posts
On March 20 2020 22:47 GreenHorizons wrote: I don't understand why I, not a wealthy person, should give mine away (bought them months ago, but any of you can order some yourselves right now) while corporations like amazon sell the ones they have? Are Amazon even protecting their own staff who don’t have the luxury of self-isolating at this time? | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27056 Posts
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Nakajin
Canada8990 Posts
On March 21 2020 00:30 Wombat_NI wrote: Are Amazon even protecting their own staff who don’t have the luxury of self-isolating at this time? They are too essential to slow their work down with protection mesure I assume Canada will start turning back every non-regulated migrant from the US. https://www.lapresse.ca/covid-19/202003/20/01-5265640-les-migrants-irreguliers-seront-renvoyes.php Fell like kicking those already on the ground personally. | ||
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Yurie
12114 Posts
On March 20 2020 19:06 r00ty wrote: Never panic, but after talking to friends and family a lot yesterday, I'm worried: The supply chain is a lot weaker than we are expecting and being told. Essential wokers are not protected. People didn't understand and Italy will be everywhere. Triage will be everywhere. Worst economy crash in history. This will be far from the worst economic crash in history. In modern history, sure could be true but classical plagues had much higher impacts. Take something like Some historians believe the plague of Justinian was one of the deadliest pandemics in history, resulting in the deaths of an estimated 25–50 million people during two centuries of recurrence, a death toll equivalent to 13–26% of the world's population at the time of the first outbreak.[ or Black Death (1347–1351).[8][9] The latter was much shorter, but still killed an estimated one-third to one-half of Europeans. The economic impact is sure to have been higher for those. Or something like 1815 eruption of Mount Tambora, a stratovolcano in Indonesia caused what came to be known as the "Year Without a Summer" This will not be a nice time compared to the past few decades (excluding a few regions where this is just a small side show) but people have lived through much worse. Don't panic and this will be over in a year or two. | ||
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vult
United States9400 Posts
On March 21 2020 01:44 Yurie wrote: This will be far from the worst economic crash in history. In modern history, sure could be true but classical plagues had much higher impacts. Take something like or The economic impact is sure to have been higher for those. Or something like This will not be a nice time compared to the past few decades (excluding a few regions where this is just a small side show) but people have lived through much worse. Don't panic and this will be over in a year or two. Hard to say because, while those plagues had no medical institutions or modern medicine which obviously perpetuated the crisis during those times, the complexity of the economy today is completely incomparable to that of centuries ago. Trillions+ of dollars are being lost due to the impact of COVID-19 which I would say is up there with the worst in history. Also, we are only 1-2 weeks into the true "worldwide crisis", and the world population is far denser and connected nowadays. The economy is reliant on so many moving parts, and when those moving parts are disturbed or halted, the world economy disintegrates. If this stays the same or gets worse, the world will be permanently impacted. NYC and New York State has already announced they are "enforcing" non-"essential" businesses and workers to stay home. It is very concerning for my company who survives on work in Manhattan/NYC, and we don't know how strict the regulations are going to be and whether or not we would be considered an "essential" service (environmental/hazmat testing). If this continues for weeks/months, we could go out of business. My boss is already talking about potential layoffs if this stays steady for 2 months, and we are only a company of ~12 people. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Netherlands30548 Posts
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