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On March 21 2020 17:28 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2020 10:56 Danglars wrote:
Day 7 for being unable to find milk, eggs, meat (of any kind), fish, or cheese in any of my nearby grocery stores. And of course toilet paper. They did have menudo (tripe) yesterday, so I guess that could count. It’s still strange to see entire aisles almost entirely bare and to tell friends and family to pick me up some X if they see a store have it.
I’m in the “critical infrastructure” category of the chemical industry (as I’ve found quite a few TLers also are over the years). Stores aren’t open when work starts, and shelves are bare when I get off. So wild. That's really ridiculous since there is no shortage atm. There has been some hoarding here but people have quickly realized that the shelves were full the next day and that it didn't make sense. The hoarding panic is the ultimate self realizing prophecy, with people creating the problem they are trying to protect themselves from.
I've read this a lot but shouldn't people "hoard" a bit? Isn't it better for those who can to stock up for weeks or even a month and not go out again? To me supermarket and pharmacies are contagion places, next time I go i'll do it in full amateur gear and with full procedure (gloves+mask+googles, discard all clothes outside home, shower). Hopefully I won't have to again in a month; also buying for my parents.
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On March 21 2020 20:24 GoTuNk! wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2020 17:28 Biff The Understudy wrote:On March 21 2020 10:56 Danglars wrote:
Day 7 for being unable to find milk, eggs, meat (of any kind), fish, or cheese in any of my nearby grocery stores. And of course toilet paper. They did have menudo (tripe) yesterday, so I guess that could count. It’s still strange to see entire aisles almost entirely bare and to tell friends and family to pick me up some X if they see a store have it.
I’m in the “critical infrastructure” category of the chemical industry (as I’ve found quite a few TLers also are over the years). Stores aren’t open when work starts, and shelves are bare when I get off. So wild. That's really ridiculous since there is no shortage atm. There has been some hoarding here but people have quickly realized that the shelves were full the next day and that it didn't make sense. The hoarding panic is the ultimate self realizing prophecy, with people creating the problem they are trying to protect themselves from. I've read this a lot but shouldn't people "hoard" a bit? Isn't it better for those who can to stock up for weeks or even a month and not go out again? To me supermarket and pharmacies are contagion places, next time I go i'll do it in full amateur gear and with full procedure (gloves+mask+googles, discard all clothes outside home, shower). Hopefully I won't have to again in a month; also buying for my parents.
Sotcking up for 2 weeks is fine.
Buying 30 bottles of disinfectant or 100+ rolls of toiletpaper is not for a couple of weeks
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Norway28825 Posts
It's good and sensible to buy stuff on a week+ to week+ basis rather than go daily. In non-covid times I tend to visit grocery stores once or twice per day, it's a 2 minute walk so I go there for single items that I suddenly feel like.
But that's very different from thinking 12 rolls of toilet paper isn't enough, I need 36, and stuff like that. While it might be sensible from an individual's point of view, most of us have never lived through a period where setting aside your individual needs for that of the community that surrounds you has been more important than right now.
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Northern Ireland27046 Posts
On March 21 2020 20:24 GoTuNk! wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2020 17:28 Biff The Understudy wrote:On March 21 2020 10:56 Danglars wrote:
Day 7 for being unable to find milk, eggs, meat (of any kind), fish, or cheese in any of my nearby grocery stores. And of course toilet paper. They did have menudo (tripe) yesterday, so I guess that could count. It’s still strange to see entire aisles almost entirely bare and to tell friends and family to pick me up some X if they see a store have it.
I’m in the “critical infrastructure” category of the chemical industry (as I’ve found quite a few TLers also are over the years). Stores aren’t open when work starts, and shelves are bare when I get off. So wild. That's really ridiculous since there is no shortage atm. There has been some hoarding here but people have quickly realized that the shelves were full the next day and that it didn't make sense. The hoarding panic is the ultimate self realizing prophecy, with people creating the problem they are trying to protect themselves from. I've read this a lot but shouldn't people "hoard" a bit? Isn't it better for those who can to stock up for weeks or even a month and not go out again? To me supermarket and pharmacies are contagion places, next time I go i'll do it in full amateur gear and with full procedure (gloves+mask+googles, discard all clothes outside home, shower). Hopefully I won't have to again in a month; also buying for my parents.
People are hoarding an unreasonable amount of things, plus there’s a knock-on effect.
I’ve talked to plenty of customers who have come in to shop every day for a week looking the items they need that are continuously sold out. Some of those individuals want to get their one shop done and then isolate themselves but they can’t get the supplies they need so have to keep coming back.
On a risk basis contact wise I’d say scenario A where hoarder comes in once and normal individual has to come in 7+ times is considerably worse than scenario B where hoarder buys a sensible amount of stuff for a few weeks and leaves enough for normal individual to do the same in one shop.
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On March 21 2020 20:24 GoTuNk! wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2020 17:28 Biff The Understudy wrote:On March 21 2020 10:56 Danglars wrote:
Day 7 for being unable to find milk, eggs, meat (of any kind), fish, or cheese in any of my nearby grocery stores. And of course toilet paper. They did have menudo (tripe) yesterday, so I guess that could count. It’s still strange to see entire aisles almost entirely bare and to tell friends and family to pick me up some X if they see a store have it.
I’m in the “critical infrastructure” category of the chemical industry (as I’ve found quite a few TLers also are over the years). Stores aren’t open when work starts, and shelves are bare when I get off. So wild. That's really ridiculous since there is no shortage atm. There has been some hoarding here but people have quickly realized that the shelves were full the next day and that it didn't make sense. The hoarding panic is the ultimate self realizing prophecy, with people creating the problem they are trying to protect themselves from. I've read this a lot but shouldn't people "hoard" a bit? Isn't it better for those who can to stock up for weeks or even a month and not go out again? To me supermarket and pharmacies are contagion places, next time I go i'll do it in full amateur gear and with full procedure (gloves+mask+googles, discard all clothes outside home, shower). Hopefully I won't have to again in a month; also buying for my parents.
If you hoard what about those who cannot hoard because they're at work. I don't know, urgent care medical staff, police and people like them? Many stores are not prepared for such hoarding 
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On March 21 2020 21:05 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2020 20:24 GoTuNk! wrote:On March 21 2020 17:28 Biff The Understudy wrote:On March 21 2020 10:56 Danglars wrote:
Day 7 for being unable to find milk, eggs, meat (of any kind), fish, or cheese in any of my nearby grocery stores. And of course toilet paper. They did have menudo (tripe) yesterday, so I guess that could count. It’s still strange to see entire aisles almost entirely bare and to tell friends and family to pick me up some X if they see a store have it.
I’m in the “critical infrastructure” category of the chemical industry (as I’ve found quite a few TLers also are over the years). Stores aren’t open when work starts, and shelves are bare when I get off. So wild. That's really ridiculous since there is no shortage atm. There has been some hoarding here but people have quickly realized that the shelves were full the next day and that it didn't make sense. The hoarding panic is the ultimate self realizing prophecy, with people creating the problem they are trying to protect themselves from. I've read this a lot but shouldn't people "hoard" a bit? Isn't it better for those who can to stock up for weeks or even a month and not go out again? To me supermarket and pharmacies are contagion places, next time I go i'll do it in full amateur gear and with full procedure (gloves+mask+googles, discard all clothes outside home, shower). Hopefully I won't have to again in a month; also buying for my parents. People are hoarding an unreasonable amount of things, plus there’s a knock-on effect. I’ve talked to plenty of customers who have come in to shop every day for a week looking the items they need that are continuously sold out. Some of those individuals want to get their one shop done and then isolate themselves but they can’t get the supplies they need so have to keep coming back. On a risk basis contact wise I’d say scenario A where hoarder comes in once and normal individual has to come in 7+ times is considerably worse than scenario B where hoarder buys a sensible amount of stuff for a few weeks and leaves enough for normal individual to do the same in one shop.
I was against hoarding, but now I overstock some items. E.g. 2 items of wet wipes instead of 1, 1.5L soap, etc simply because people are unreasonable and I might not find any if I act normal. Someone in the previous pages said it's a like an avalanche / knock-on effect, so that's what it is.
Also, checking statistics from China, things aren't as bad as media informs. 87% recovered cases, 9% still active and 4% dead. And that 4% risk is even lower if you're up to 39 years old, in that case it's just 0.2%. Some people act like death rate is 50% or something.
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On March 21 2020 20:24 GoTuNk! wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2020 17:28 Biff The Understudy wrote:On March 21 2020 10:56 Danglars wrote:
Day 7 for being unable to find milk, eggs, meat (of any kind), fish, or cheese in any of my nearby grocery stores. And of course toilet paper. They did have menudo (tripe) yesterday, so I guess that could count. It’s still strange to see entire aisles almost entirely bare and to tell friends and family to pick me up some X if they see a store have it.
I’m in the “critical infrastructure” category of the chemical industry (as I’ve found quite a few TLers also are over the years). Stores aren’t open when work starts, and shelves are bare when I get off. So wild. That's really ridiculous since there is no shortage atm. There has been some hoarding here but people have quickly realized that the shelves were full the next day and that it didn't make sense. The hoarding panic is the ultimate self realizing prophecy, with people creating the problem they are trying to protect themselves from. I've read this a lot but shouldn't people "hoard" a bit? Isn't it better for those who can to stock up for weeks or even a month and not go out again? To me supermarket and pharmacies are contagion places, next time I go i'll do it in full amateur gear and with full procedure (gloves+mask+googles, discard all clothes outside home, shower). Hopefully I won't have to again in a month; also buying for my parents.
On March 21 2020 20:43 Liquid`Drone wrote:
It's good and sensible to buy stuff on a week+ to week+ basis rather than go daily. In non-covid times I tend to visit grocery stores once or twice per day, it's a 2 minute walk so I go there for single items that I suddenly feel like.
But that's very different from thinking 12 rolls of toilet paper isn't enough, I need 36, and stuff like that. While it might be sensible from an individual's point of view, most of us have never lived through a period where setting aside your individual needs for that of the community that surrounds you has been more important than right now.
To be honest, if you are careful, going to the grocery store is neither risky (at all) nor harmful. You just need to:
- Buy your stuff at times when there aren't too many people in the shop.
- Try to keep a distance with people of at least one meter.
- Wash your hand thoroughly before and after, and also after unpacking the groceries.
- Avoid coughing / coughing in your elbow if absolutely unavoidable. But really, avoid coughing if you are in a public place.
- Avoid touching unnecessarily stuff you won't need.
- Avoid totally touching your face.
And you are absolutely fine. You won't get nor transmit the virus by spending ten minutes in a shop if you observe the above and you can go every day or every other day; there is no need to buy 36 rolls of toilet paper and no need to go full Tchernobyl either. It's not radioactivity, it's a virus. There are ways you can definitely catch it, and ways you definitely can't.
Source (in French) It's Le Monde, a VERY serious newspaper.
So altogether, I would say, just don't hoard. Be considerate, there is no supply shortage, and if you want to avoid going too often to the shop - which is totally fine -, just make sure that you are not terminating a whole shelf of a necessary good by yourself 
By the way, I'm a bit concerned by the situation in some parts of Oslo. Grönland (which I really like btw) is an absolute shitshow at the moment. People are spitting, gathering, and going about their stuff as if nothing was going on. It's really worrying. I think the government will have to impose complete isolation if that carries on, because people are already starting to severly lack discipline.
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On March 21 2020 22:17 SC-Shield wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2020 21:05 Wombat_NI wrote:On March 21 2020 20:24 GoTuNk! wrote:On March 21 2020 17:28 Biff The Understudy wrote:On March 21 2020 10:56 Danglars wrote:
Day 7 for being unable to find milk, eggs, meat (of any kind), fish, or cheese in any of my nearby grocery stores. And of course toilet paper. They did have menudo (tripe) yesterday, so I guess that could count. It’s still strange to see entire aisles almost entirely bare and to tell friends and family to pick me up some X if they see a store have it.
I’m in the “critical infrastructure” category of the chemical industry (as I’ve found quite a few TLers also are over the years). Stores aren’t open when work starts, and shelves are bare when I get off. So wild. That's really ridiculous since there is no shortage atm. There has been some hoarding here but people have quickly realized that the shelves were full the next day and that it didn't make sense. The hoarding panic is the ultimate self realizing prophecy, with people creating the problem they are trying to protect themselves from. I've read this a lot but shouldn't people "hoard" a bit? Isn't it better for those who can to stock up for weeks or even a month and not go out again? To me supermarket and pharmacies are contagion places, next time I go i'll do it in full amateur gear and with full procedure (gloves+mask+googles, discard all clothes outside home, shower). Hopefully I won't have to again in a month; also buying for my parents. People are hoarding an unreasonable amount of things, plus there’s a knock-on effect. I’ve talked to plenty of customers who have come in to shop every day for a week looking the items they need that are continuously sold out. Some of those individuals want to get their one shop done and then isolate themselves but they can’t get the supplies they need so have to keep coming back. On a risk basis contact wise I’d say scenario A where hoarder comes in once and normal individual has to come in 7+ times is considerably worse than scenario B where hoarder buys a sensible amount of stuff for a few weeks and leaves enough for normal individual to do the same in one shop. I was against hoarding, but now I overstock some items. E.g. 2 items of wet wipes instead of 1, 1.5L soap, etc simply because people are unreasonable and I might not find any if I act normal. Someone in the previous pages said it's a like an avalanche / knock-on effect, so that's what it is. Also, checking statistics from China, things aren't as bad as media informs. 87% recovered cases, 9% still active and 4% dead. And that 4% risk is even lower if you're up to 39 years old, in that case it's just 0.2%. Some people act like death rate is 50% or something.
Thats probably a mixture of bad media and you underestimating how very bad a 0.2 - 4% death rate actually is.
All those death rates are still very wonky because of incomplete data and dependency of medical care avaliable.
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On March 21 2020 23:09 Garbels wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2020 22:17 SC-Shield wrote:On March 21 2020 21:05 Wombat_NI wrote:On March 21 2020 20:24 GoTuNk! wrote:On March 21 2020 17:28 Biff The Understudy wrote:On March 21 2020 10:56 Danglars wrote:
Day 7 for being unable to find milk, eggs, meat (of any kind), fish, or cheese in any of my nearby grocery stores. And of course toilet paper. They did have menudo (tripe) yesterday, so I guess that could count. It’s still strange to see entire aisles almost entirely bare and to tell friends and family to pick me up some X if they see a store have it.
I’m in the “critical infrastructure” category of the chemical industry (as I’ve found quite a few TLers also are over the years). Stores aren’t open when work starts, and shelves are bare when I get off. So wild. That's really ridiculous since there is no shortage atm. There has been some hoarding here but people have quickly realized that the shelves were full the next day and that it didn't make sense. The hoarding panic is the ultimate self realizing prophecy, with people creating the problem they are trying to protect themselves from. I've read this a lot but shouldn't people "hoard" a bit? Isn't it better for those who can to stock up for weeks or even a month and not go out again? To me supermarket and pharmacies are contagion places, next time I go i'll do it in full amateur gear and with full procedure (gloves+mask+googles, discard all clothes outside home, shower). Hopefully I won't have to again in a month; also buying for my parents. People are hoarding an unreasonable amount of things, plus there’s a knock-on effect. I’ve talked to plenty of customers who have come in to shop every day for a week looking the items they need that are continuously sold out. Some of those individuals want to get their one shop done and then isolate themselves but they can’t get the supplies they need so have to keep coming back. On a risk basis contact wise I’d say scenario A where hoarder comes in once and normal individual has to come in 7+ times is considerably worse than scenario B where hoarder buys a sensible amount of stuff for a few weeks and leaves enough for normal individual to do the same in one shop. I was against hoarding, but now I overstock some items. E.g. 2 items of wet wipes instead of 1, 1.5L soap, etc simply because people are unreasonable and I might not find any if I act normal. Someone in the previous pages said it's a like an avalanche / knock-on effect, so that's what it is. Also, checking statistics from China, things aren't as bad as media informs. 87% recovered cases, 9% still active and 4% dead. And that 4% risk is even lower if you're up to 39 years old, in that case it's just 0.2%. Some people act like death rate is 50% or something. Thats probably a mixture of bad media and you underestimating how very bad a 0.2 - 4% death rate actually is. All those death rates are still very wonky because of incomplete data and dependency of medical care avaliable.
I trust data from China because:
a) Chinese people are resuming daily life now
b) they've reported quite a lot of cases which is something other countries seem to be hiding or not testing enough (Russia, Japan, etc)
Also, this lockdown can't be imposed for more than 1-2 months, economy will just collapse. We could wait and see, but if there aren't enough results after 2 months - tough shit. We'll have to go with UK's herd immunity until vaccine is available. Otherwise, society will collapse if lockdown goes for many, many months.
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I don't get the hoarding tendencies. If there will be a shortage, it will be due to the hoarding in itself. Sometimes I wonder if some people are romantically in love with an apocalyptic future, that they will embrace any such premonition with open arms.
Plenty of wares here, though.
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On March 21 2020 23:41 SC-Shield wrote:
Also, this lockdown can't be imposed for more than 1-2 months, economy will just collapse. We could wait and see, but if there aren't enough results after 2 months - tough shit. We'll have to go with UK's herd immunity until vaccine is available. Otherwise, society will collapse if lockdown goes for many, many months. Economy is at large an illusion. It rests entirely on whether those that enter the numbers into the computer will direct it to those companies that are out of resources, due to lock down to keep them afloat, which is likely in order for "society" not collapsing, as it is in no capitalistic interest, that it does.
If society collapses, it is because those with the imaginary numbers wants it to. Just like when the economic bubble burst, it just made some rich and others poor, because it was the inevitable collapse as it was entirely built on an illusion of worth, that mostly had some damage control, but at the end of the day, it just made a new cycle of more means more.
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Northern Ireland27046 Posts
On March 21 2020 22:17 SC-Shield wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2020 21:05 Wombat_NI wrote:On March 21 2020 20:24 GoTuNk! wrote:On March 21 2020 17:28 Biff The Understudy wrote:On March 21 2020 10:56 Danglars wrote:
Day 7 for being unable to find milk, eggs, meat (of any kind), fish, or cheese in any of my nearby grocery stores. And of course toilet paper. They did have menudo (tripe) yesterday, so I guess that could count. It’s still strange to see entire aisles almost entirely bare and to tell friends and family to pick me up some X if they see a store have it.
I’m in the “critical infrastructure” category of the chemical industry (as I’ve found quite a few TLers also are over the years). Stores aren’t open when work starts, and shelves are bare when I get off. So wild. That's really ridiculous since there is no shortage atm. There has been some hoarding here but people have quickly realized that the shelves were full the next day and that it didn't make sense. The hoarding panic is the ultimate self realizing prophecy, with people creating the problem they are trying to protect themselves from. I've read this a lot but shouldn't people "hoard" a bit? Isn't it better for those who can to stock up for weeks or even a month and not go out again? To me supermarket and pharmacies are contagion places, next time I go i'll do it in full amateur gear and with full procedure (gloves+mask+googles, discard all clothes outside home, shower). Hopefully I won't have to again in a month; also buying for my parents. People are hoarding an unreasonable amount of things, plus there’s a knock-on effect. I’ve talked to plenty of customers who have come in to shop every day for a week looking the items they need that are continuously sold out. Some of those individuals want to get their one shop done and then isolate themselves but they can’t get the supplies they need so have to keep coming back. On a risk basis contact wise I’d say scenario A where hoarder comes in once and normal individual has to come in 7+ times is considerably worse than scenario B where hoarder buys a sensible amount of stuff for a few weeks and leaves enough for normal individual to do the same in one shop. I was against hoarding, but now I overstock some items. E.g. 2 items of wet wipes instead of 1, 1.5L soap, etc simply because people are unreasonable and I might not find any if I act normal. Someone in the previous pages said it's a like an avalanche / knock-on effect, so that's what it is. Also, checking statistics from China, things aren't as bad as media informs. 87% recovered cases, 9% still active and 4% dead. And that 4% risk is even lower if you're up to 39 years old, in that case it's just 0.2%. Some people act like death rate is 50% or something.
I wouldn’t class that as hoarding at all, 2 members of the same family with entire trolleys full of toilet paper as I saw last week is still relatively extreme but the kind of excess I’m extremely irked by.
Yesterday retail land had started to calm down to something approaching normality but people seem to be completely freaking out today again, probably us closing bars/restaurants etc and all have spooked people a bit and rammed home that this won’t blow over soon.
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Some news from the other side of the world: Russia is slowly dealing with the estimated ~10k Russian citizens who want to return, but who were locked out of the country when the airlines closed down. Today, one flight of 300 from Moldova is among the many that are flying them back in. Source in Russian.
For the past several weeks, the Russian government has restricted all incoming international flights to a single terminal of a single airport, in those cases where they haven't been banned outright. If this flight follows precedent, they will probably be tested then quarantined for two weeks after flying in to ensure that they aren't infected. I suppose the next weeks and months will show if this approach saved lives or not.
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I'm extremely well stocked now. Definitely won't need to leave my house for at least a month.
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On March 22 2020 02:02 LegalLord wrote:Some news from the other side of the world: Russia is slowly dealing with the estimated ~10k Russian citizens who want to return, but who were locked out of the country when the airlines closed down. Today, one flight of 300 from Moldova is among the many that are flying them back in. Source in Russian. For the past several weeks, the Russian government has restricted all incoming international flights to a single terminal of a single airport, in those cases where they haven't been banned outright. If this flight follows precedent, they will probably be tested then quarantined for two weeks after flying in to ensure that they aren't infected. I suppose the next weeks and months will show if this approach saved lives or not.
those are very manageable numbers. By comparison, 1 million of Romanians live just in Italy and around the same nr in Spain, not to mention the rest of Europe.
In the past few weeks, officially, at the very least 250k people came home from the west, just by the land frontiers, not counting planes and boats. Between march 11-12 that number is reported to be 107.000, mind you then there werent any travel restrictions, except for parts of Italy.
according to a Free Europe Radio-Romania article + Show Spoiler +(https://romania.europalibera.org/a/%C3%AEntre-200-500-%C8%99i-950-500-de-persoane-intrate-%C3%AEn-rom%C3%A2nia-au-sc%C4%83pat-de-carantin%C4%83-%C8%99i-izolare-testa%C8%9Bi-%C3%AEntre-0-82---3-29-/30499768.html)
The number of test that were conducted in the country so far: 8248 as of yesterday.
yeah...
Also Italy's number are in for the day, it's still climbing
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Anyone know where i can find N95 masks in Canada? Can't find any on Amazon/Ebay (or sellers are price gouging).
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On March 22 2020 02:12 Geo.Rion wrote:
Also Italy's number are in for the day, it's still climbing Italy's measures went nation wide the 10th so the decline should start any day now? If they don't then, oh boy.
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On March 22 2020 02:39 TT1 wrote:
Anyone know where i can find N95 masks in Canada? Can't find any on Amazon/Ebay (or sellers are price gouging).
Apparently hardware stores have been a good place to look for them. Though I will note that I doubt that N95 masks are going to be very useful from a practical infection avoidance perspective.
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EPT
