EPTCoronavirus and You - Page 551
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Any and all updates regarding the COVID-19 will need a source provided. Please do your part in helping us to keep this thread maintainable and under control. It is YOUR responsibility to fully read through the sources that you link, and you MUST provide a brief summary explaining what the source is about. Do not expect other people to do the work for you. Conspiracy theories and fear mongering will absolutely not be tolerated in this thread. Expect harsh mod actions if you try to incite fear needlessly. This is not a politics thread! You are allowed to post information regarding politics if it's related to the coronavirus, but do NOT discuss politics in here. Added a disclaimer on page 662. Many need to post better. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4333 Posts
https://files.ssi.dk/covid19/omikron/statusrapport/rapport-omikronvarianten-20122021-9j51 Page 9. Have not been hospitalised - Other variants 98.4%, Omicron 99.4%. | ||
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Sermokala
United States13955 Posts
The unvaccinated will die like they want to and make things worse for everyone else because they want to. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44367 Posts
On December 21 2021 23:42 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: Fresh data from Denmark suggests Omicron has a lower hospitalisation rate than previous variants. https://files.ssi.dk/covid19/omikron/statusrapport/rapport-omikronvarianten-20122021-9j51 Page 9. Have not been hospitalised - Other variants 98.4%, Omicron 99.4%. Hopefully future variants continue to be less severe, although I'm not sure if the lower hospitalization rate is because omicron is innately less deadly than delta, or if it's because more people are vaccinated now than a few months ago (or some other explanation). | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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LegalLord
United Kingdom13775 Posts
On December 21 2021 23:16 RKC wrote: Why has some parts of Asia been spared from higher COVID deaths? One possible theory is due to demographics - the population is younger, and the elderly mainly consist of healthy resilient folks. It's possible that Asians tend to have a healthier lifestyle and diet (less junk food and vices). Another possibility is that the wonders of Western healthcare have created a substrata of vulnerable elderly folks on constant need of medical support (whilst their Asian equivalents have the misfortune of just dying out). Maybe climate also is a factor - flu-like diseases is less virulent near the tropics (seasonal flu jabs is unheard of). Yet one more possibility is that they're lying about low death rates. In India at least - the claim is young population but the reality is a lot of deaths not getting recorded in the official statistics. Or in the case of China, they just handled it better than everyone else and headed it off with measures that everyone else tried to replicate but ended up half-assing. | ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28673 Posts
On December 21 2021 23:16 RKC wrote: Why has some parts of Asia been spared from higher COVID deaths? One possible theory is due to demographics - the population is younger, and the elderly mainly consist of healthy resilient folks. It's possible that Asians tend to have a healthier lifestyle and diet (less junk food and vices). Another possibility is that the wonders of Western healthcare have created a substrata of vulnerable elderly folks on constant need of medical support (whilst their Asian equivalents have the misfortune of just dying out). Maybe climate also is a factor - flu-like diseases is less virulent near the tropics (seasonal flu jabs is unheard of). So it's not entirely wrong to believe that COVID is more dangerous to certain communities than others, whether for factors within or beyond our control. It's rather unfortunate that there's hardly media coverage (or even many scientific studies) on China's approach. Yes, there's a lot of international political tension, and data may be hard to find. Still, I don't see any Western government making serious effort to engage. We like to talk about putting the pandemic above politics on a domestic level (Democrats v Republican). It's just sad not more is being done at an international level. A lot of this seems highly plausible to me. Comparing the US and Norway, the US has a CFR of about 1.6%, while Norway has one of 0.3%. The US has 50% more tests per capita, like 140% more infections per capita, and like 1100% more deaths per capita. For Norway in 2020, only 8% of patients who died of covid did not also have one of the following illnesses: chronic cardiovascular disease, chronic lung illnesses, dementia, diabetes, or cancer. Essentially, in Norway, a large majority of people who died from covid had a 'disease of affluence'. (Funny - in Norwegian, this term translates to 'lifestyle related illness.) Then, when you look at the age groups, in Norway, 63% of deaths happened to people who were older than 80, and only 2% of deaths were people younger than 50 years old. In the US, 6.75% of deaths are younger than 50, and only 52% of deaths happened to people above 75. (The cutoff is younger, yet the percentage notably smaller. While I'm sure vaccination rates are a factor especially if we look at 2021 deaths in the US compared to 2021 deaths in Norway, I do think the effect of prior public health is a bit under-communicated. I'm not too familiar with how health care of the elderly looks in Asia, but in Norway, they tend to live for several years after reaching a stage of physical deterioration where they can no longer take care of themselves. Even though a country like Japan has a higher life expectancy than we do, I can still picture their elderly being less frail than our elderly. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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RKC
2848 Posts
On December 22 2021 00:39 Liquid`Drone wrote: A lot of this seems highly plausible to me. Comparing the US and Norway, the US has a CFR of about 1.6%, while Norway has one of 0.3%. The US has 50% more tests per capita, like 140% more infections per capita, and like 1100% more deaths per capita. For Norway in 2020, only 8% of patients who died of covid did not also have one of the following illnesses: chronic cardiovascular disease, chronic lung illnesses, dementia, diabetes, or cancer. Essentially, in Norway, a large majority of people who died from covid had a 'disease of affluence'. (Funny - in Norwegian, this term translates to 'lifestyle related illness.) Then, when you look at the age groups, in Norway, 63% of deaths happened to people who were older than 80, and only 2% of deaths were people younger than 50 years old. In the US, 6.75% of deaths are younger than 50, and only 52% of deaths happened to people above 75. (The cutoff is younger, yet the percentage notably smaller. While I'm sure vaccination rates are a factor especially if we look at 2021 deaths in the US compared to 2021 deaths in Norway, I do think the effect of prior public health is a bit under-communicated. I'm not too familiar with how health care of the elderly looks in Asia, but in Norway, they tend to live for several years after reaching a stage of physical deterioration where they can no longer take care of themselves. Even though a country like Japan has a higher life expectancy than we do, I can still picture their elderly being less frail than our elderly. My personal anecdotal experience and observation based on my time in Asia correlates with the last point. My friends' old folks are hard as nails and in good health (main critical risk is cancer or diabetes). They also don't go on medication as much as the West (preferring natural herbal medicine, and sleeping off minor ailment without going to the doctor). Social welfare is not great, unfortunately. My feeling is that anyone who grows old and frail without wealth and a caring family essentially don't last very long... So the irony could be that COVID has struck the West badly due to altruistic attempts to prolong life and delay death. Please don't take this wrong way. But just to quote one of my friends who works in healthcare: "Life finds a way, but so does Death". Sounds cruel, but even scientists have some wacky theories/views of how nature balances itself. But he was making a larger point of how we, as humans, should always treat health holistically. Prevention is better than cure. Live responsibly, and don't be complacent and depend on the wonders of technology to save ourselves. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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TelecoM
United States10673 Posts
is this actually a thing? I still have issues breathing mainly at night when I go down to sleep but also at other times like when I eat, the doctors at first thought it was Fibrosis then said the radiologist said the tests came back negative which was a relief, but didn't stop the symptoms. I have been using an inhaler which helps but not 100% of the time fixes the issue. I have been trying to eat healthier / drink water etc. to combat this... So the main question is... Is there any risk for me to get the Vaccine with these symptoms? This is the only reason I have not gotten vaccinated, in fear that there hasn't been enough research done yet and that it could effect me differently because of the issue I already have, with breathing. Any clear cut and concise advice is much appreciated, thanks in advance. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44367 Posts
On December 22 2021 08:03 TelecoM wrote: Honest question here for any medical experts in the forum, I am living in Southern California where the population is obviously very dense, but the vaccine mandates are not present in our county, only in LA county and maybe a few others, but not where in the county where I am currently. I have been having breathing issues for quite some time (around the same time as when the whole Corona thing started), it was difficult, but I quit smoking both Cigarettes and Cannabis to hopefully stop this. I have seen some things about "Post Corona Pulmonary Fibrosis". is this actually a thing? I still have issues breathing mainly at night when I go down to sleep but also at other times like when I eat, the doctors at first thought it was Fibrosis then said the radiologist said the tests came back negative which was a relief, but didn't stop the symptoms. I have been using an inhaler which helps but not 100% of the time fixes the issue. I have been trying to eat healthier / drink water etc. to combat this... So the main question is... Is there any risk for me to get the Vaccine with these symptoms? This is the only reason I have not gotten vaccinated, in fear that there hasn't been enough research done yet and that it could effect me differently because of the issue I already have, with breathing. Any clear cut and concise advice is much appreciated, thanks in advance. I'm not a medical expert, but that sounds like the kind of thing you should talk to a personal physician about, in person, who knows your medical history and can give you professional advice. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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TelecoM
United States10673 Posts
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LegalLord
United Kingdom13775 Posts
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
On December 22 2021 16:47 LegalLord wrote: Looks like fourth doses of vaccine aren't a meme anymore - Israel is starting to do it. Faster than I expected, to be honest. I mean at least people can't say 4th dose won't be untested. I just get the feeling that at some point being super immune to a defunct strain is somewhat pointless. Situation has deteriorated unbelievably quickly here. 2 weeks ago, we were sitting around 350-400 cases a day, after several months of slowly dropping. The first detected case of Omicron was maybe a week before that(roughly 1 week for PCR sequencing). So first imported case(s) were around a month ago. Now it's a 5+ hour lineup to get tested. The lineup for the closest drive-thru testing center went from nobody 2 weeks ago (I drive by regularly) to something like 8 or 9 blocks full of cars, increasing by a block or two each day. People in the line are getting sent home with rapid test kits, and we just broke our case record. I don't think we can go up quickly any more simply because we've almost hit the current testing capacity limit. Positivity rate is skyrocketing because only the people who are really sick would be willing to wait pretty much an entire day to get tested, and people with minor symptoms have been told to just go quarantine. 50% capacity in restaurants, pretty much all other leisure activities are closed starting midnight of the 22nd, massive restrictions on gatherings etc. Surgeries starting early January are getting canceled in anticipation of the coming surge, which is going to be be hundreds of thousands of active cases. We'll be getting some real good data soon on how much a delayed 2nd dose helps against hospitalization, because it certainly ain't doing a whole lot against infections. | ||
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mbs88jso
1 Post
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Slydie
1920 Posts
On December 22 2021 00:04 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Hopefully future variants continue to be less severe, although I'm not sure if the lower hospitalization rate is because omicron is innately less deadly than delta, or if it's because more people are vaccinated now than a few months ago (or some other explanation). Your sample size is exactly 1 person. Afaik, the studies so far suggest that infection by previous strains give BETTER long term protection than vaccines, but the 2 are not mutually exclusive. There is also talk about how the measures club down the seasonal flu can have horrible consequences later as generations of kids might not be exposed to the virus when their bodies handle them the best. I also find it interesting that the value of "delaying death at all cost" is hurting the west so badly during this pandemic. It is unsustainable. It is often forgotten that the care homes which are hit the worst can also have an average life expectancy of under 2 years. If you ask the patients who are able to formulate an opinion, they often value their abilities in the moment and seeing their family higher than delaying death long as possible. My grandmother died from unknown causes right after she lost the ability to speak, there simply wasn't much left in life to enjoy for her. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44367 Posts
On December 22 2021 19:38 Slydie wrote: Your sample size is exactly 1 person. Afaik, the studies so far suggest that infection by previous strains give BETTER long term protection than vaccines, but the 2 are not mutually exclusive. There is also talk about how the measures club down the seasonal flu can have horrible consequences later as generations of kids might not be exposed to the virus when their bodies handle them the best. I also find it interesting that the value of "delaying death at all cost" is hurting the west so badly during this pandemic. It is unsustainable. It is often forgotten that the care homes which are hit the worst can also have an average life expectancy of under 2 years. If you ask the patients who are able to formulate an opinion, they often value their abilities in the moment and seeing their family higher than delaying death long as possible. My grandmother died from unknown causes right after she lost the ability to speak, there simply wasn't much left in life to enjoy for her. Is your response for me or for iPlaY.NettleS or for someone else? What sample size of 1 are you referring to? | ||
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4333 Posts
On December 22 2021 20:21 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Is your response for me or for iPlaY.NettleS or for someone else? What sample size of 1 are you referring to? Is he talking about the recent Omicron death in Texas? I honestly don’t know.The Danish study had close to 19,000 omicron cases to come up with the lower hospitalisation data. Still too early to say for sure that it is less dangerous but i’ve heard from multiple outlets now that it likely is not as severe. Also a few hours ago here in Western Australia the Premier has now mandated the third shot for around 75%+ of workers public and private.You have one month after your five month wait following the second shot to get it, or you will be stood down/fired. ATAGI (Aus vaccine regulatory body) is meeting on possibly reducing the five month requirement to three or four months this is noted in the press release so if they do then mandated booster after 3 or 4 months (plus one month leeway). https://www.skynews.com.au/australia-news/coronavirus/mark-mcgowan-implements-world-first-by-making-booster-shot-mandatory-for-wa-workers/news-story/6bf4a830a9f91f144247d35756c93a1e | ||
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