EPTCoronavirus and You - Page 552
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Any and all updates regarding the COVID-19 will need a source provided. Please do your part in helping us to keep this thread maintainable and under control. It is YOUR responsibility to fully read through the sources that you link, and you MUST provide a brief summary explaining what the source is about. Do not expect other people to do the work for you. Conspiracy theories and fear mongering will absolutely not be tolerated in this thread. Expect harsh mod actions if you try to incite fear needlessly. This is not a politics thread! You are allowed to post information regarding politics if it's related to the coronavirus, but do NOT discuss politics in here. Added a disclaimer on page 662. Many need to post better. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
On December 22 2021 16:47 LegalLord wrote: Looks like fourth doses of vaccine aren't a meme anymore - Israel is starting to do it. Faster than I expected, to be honest. Probably gonna get mine soon. I got my 3rd in early August, so I should probably actually do it soon. | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
On December 22 2021 18:08 Amui wrote: I mean at least people can't say 4th dose won't be untested. I just get the feeling that at some point being super immune to a defunct strain is somewhat pointless. It feels like an approach without a long-term plan. The corvid will definitely outlast people's willingness to take top-up boosters four times a year, the old vaccine will definitely be less effective even with top-up boost relative to what it was upon first use, and the only clear benefit is that it increases Pfizer's "covid franchise" sales. This definitely isn't the way. Time to start planning 5th & 6th doses posthaste. If 4th isn't a meme, neither is more doses. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Acrofales
Spain18464 Posts
The flu shot is changed and adapts to whatever flu strains appear to be dominant from year to year. We need something like that. We also need a lot of research on how often a booster/new vaccine is necessary. If it's really every 3 months for everyone then so be it, but [citation needed]. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Lmui
Canada6223 Posts
![[image loading]](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2d/Omicron_SARS-CoV-2_radial_distance_tree_2021-Dec-01.svg/1280px-Omicron_SARS-CoV-2_radial_distance_tree_2021-Dec-01.svg.png) At the center is the original variant, and distance from center is the genetic distance in the virus. Odds are, you'll generally want one vaccine that protects against each active branch of covid. Delta hasn't been a problem for the existing vaccines, but omicron has, so my guess is that eventually you'll want a multivalent covid vaccine that protects against two or more branches. Probably two doses of a multivalent 8 weeks apart is a good baseline for protection, and then additional boosters to minimize transmission. A recent booster seems to drop hospitalization risk amongst elderly to a low single digit % level, so in the long run, I see: Minimum of 2 doses, 8+ weeks apart of major active branches for anyone who hasn't had a shot yet. Regular booster doses for elderly/immunocompromised (1-2 a year, to keep antibodies up all the time) Yearly boosters for healthy individuals (included in flu shot), so trivalent flu+bivalent covid shot. If spread is high, vaccine passports will require a minimum of 2 shots, with the most recent shot/booster being within the last 6-12 months (depending on durability of antibody protection after boosters). | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Slydie
2014 Posts
On December 23 2021 23:17 JimmiC wrote: Rare good news, still early but a second study suggesting Omicron has 2/3 the hospital rate of delta. https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/omicron-covid-variant-omicron-variant-in-world-covid-new-variant-on-hospitalisation-rate-for-omicron-good-news-from-these-2-studies-2666511 Not surprised. How soft does the pandemic have to be before we stop counting every case and imposing quarantines on largely healthy people? Omnicron can't be stopped without completely destroying the quality of life of the whole population. Fighting it is probably both futile and counter productive. I feel like a monster of fear has been born, and moving on from it might take a generation. | ||
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Lmui
Canada6223 Posts
On December 24 2021 05:23 Slydie wrote: Not surprised. How soft does the pandemic have to be before we stop counting every case and imposing quarantines on largely healthy people? Omnicron can't be stopped without completely destroying the quality of life of the whole population. Fighting it is probably both futile and counter productive. I feel like a monster of fear has been born, and moving on from it might take a generation. It has to be soft enough that you can trust that without intervention, it will not overload hospitals. That is the key metric that's been used throughout the pandemic. If 99.9% of the population could sleep it off like we do with colds, and the remaining .1% could take some ibuprofen, and some subset of that would need more intervention, this wouldn't be an issue. Right now, we've started cancelling non-urgent surgeries in BC because of the expected rise in hospitalizations. The infection rate is through the roof in essentially every province in Canada. Quebec is at their testing limit (~50k tests/day) with ~15% positive, and rising, and BC/Ontario aren't far behind. Even if the hospitalization rate is 1/4 as much, that doesn't help when case rate has risen by 10x in the last two weeks. It is preferable to have a slow burn for 3 months versus a giant peak over one month. The problem is that enough healthcare workers are seeing breakthrough infections that we're losing hospital capacity, and short of asking actively infectious workers to go back to work, there isn't a good way to staff beds. | ||
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Sermokala
United States14211 Posts
How soft does the pandemic have to be before we stop counting every case and imposing quarantines on largely healthy people? Like goddamm are we really stuck at asking "how low do the numbers have to be before we stop collecting the numbers?". THATS NOT HOW ANYTHING EVER HAS WORKED. Next we're going to have someone come in and say masks don't work because the virus is too small to be caught by cloth. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27464 Posts
On December 24 2021 05:23 Slydie wrote: Not surprised. How soft does the pandemic have to be before we stop counting every case and imposing quarantines on largely healthy people? Omnicron can't be stopped without completely destroying the quality of life of the whole population. Fighting it is probably both futile and counter productive. I feel like a monster of fear has been born, and moving on from it might take a generation. No it can’t be stopped, if can be mitigated Whether that’s worth it depends on one’s thresholds Fear takes many forms, including ‘I won’t get a vaccine because reasons’, as well as those who live in hazmat suits . We’re stuck with it, there is seemingly no moving on or recovery, nothing generational about it | ||
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4456 Posts
Four a year is a bit different to one a year isn’t it? I mentioned last page Aus vaccine regulatory body was meeting re: recommended time between boosters.It’s been reduced again to 4 months and then 3 months starting from Jan 31, 2022.As i stated the booster mandate here in Western Australia is likely to move in tandem with those recommendations as stated in that press release. https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/coronavirus/coronavirus-vaccine-wa-kids-aged-five-to-11-can-get-jab-from-january-10-c-5072927 Then from Monday, January 31, people who have had two doses can get their booster after three months. Around 7.5 million Australians will be eligible for their booster shot come January 4 and this will then jump to 16 million at the end of the month once the timeframe is dropped to three months. No concern that the general public will lose faith in these vaccines if they have to get injected with them every three months? I mean it’s great for Pfizer bottom line but I can’t see people putting up with it. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22662 Posts
On December 24 2021 21:21 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: There is a difference between "Everyone should get a booster because of Omicron if their vaccination was more then 3 months ago" and "everyone should get a booster every 3 months from now on".Four a year is a bit different to one a year isn’t it? I mentioned last page Aus vaccine regulatory body was meeting re: recommended time between boosters.It’s been reduced again to 4 months and then 3 months starting from Jan 31, 2022.As i stated the booster mandate here in Western Australia is likely to move in tandem with those recommendations as stated in that press release. https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/coronavirus/coronavirus-vaccine-wa-kids-aged-five-to-11-can-get-jab-from-january-10-c-5072927 | ||
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4456 Posts
On December 24 2021 21:24 Gorsameth wrote: There is a difference between "Everyone should get a booster because of Omicron if their vaccination was more then 3 months ago" and "everyone should get a booster every 3 months from now on". Well I don’t know what it is like where you are but here, they are obsessed with cases.Immunity from the vaccine wears off after around 3 months.Offers protection against hospitalisation after that but like i say, they are obsessed with cases here.Couple that with the 100+ million doses the government has ordered for here next year and I’d doubt we will be going back to 6 monthly. In just over two weeks the official advice for the booster timing here has gone from 6 months, to 5 months, to 4 months and then to 3 months from late January.Personally I think that is quite remarkable, no? https://edition.cnn.com/2021/10/06/health/pfizer-vaccine-waning-immunity/index.html Two real-world studies published Wednesday confirm that the immune protection offered by two doses of Pfizer's Covid-19 vaccine drops off after two months or so, although protection against severe disease, hospitalization and death remains strong. The studies, from Israel and from Qatar and published in the New England Journal of Medicine, support arguments that even fully vaccinated people need to maintain precautions against infection. | ||
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Erasme
Bahamas15899 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22662 Posts
On December 25 2021 05:07 Erasme wrote: He literally said Your own extract says that it still protects against hospitalization/deaths. Which is a far cry from wearing off. Me thinks you don't understand % applied to vaccines. Well I don’t know what it is like where you are but here, they are obsessed with cases. Immunity from the vaccine wears off after around 3 months. Offers protection against hospitalisation after that but like i say, they are obsessed with cases here He knows protection against hospitalization lasts much longer but that doesn't matter to the Australian government who are following a different strategy from everyone else. | ||
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Silvanel
Poland4769 Posts
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19393 Posts
A new vaccine by the army looks very promising. The reason it took so long to test was the lack of unvaccinated subjects who never had covid. Doesn’t it seem important that the public be made aware that new and better vaccines could come quicker based on the number of available unvaccinated subjects. I’m vaccinated, but my wife is not because of having a new child. Knowing a better vaccine may exist now, it would be terrible if my state suddenly just mandated vaccines and eliminated her chance at a better choice. I’d love to read some serious thoughts on this from the TL crowd. | ||
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