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It is YOUR responsibility to fully read through the sources that you link, and you MUST provide a brief summary explaining what the source is about. Do not expect other people to do the work for you.
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Added a disclaimer on page 662. Many need to post better. |
What's equally as bad (or even worse) than disinformation is hate speech.
There's a lot of subtle anti-Asian rhetoric insinuating that their governments and societies are backward. Yes, of course governance and education is not as good as Western liberal democracies. Yes, of course it's possible that statistics are less reliable there due to less transparency.
As someone with close familial and cultural ties to that part of the world (and more appraised of the real situation on the ground), I find some of the comments here are misleading, stereotypical, and insulting. To put it bluntly - you have no experience and credibility to speak for Asia, so don't make it seem like you do (and no, simply citing random online links of news sites which are equally prone to bias doesn't add anything to your views).
Still, I'm all for free speech and prefer to avoid personal attacks. So I'll just leave this general comment. But I just hope people can take this as a friendly precautionary advice for future posting...
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Oh man, much happened in this thread this night!
So can't go into all I read (and didn't read all anyway  )
On December 11 2021 00:23 RKC wrote:
The fact that only societies in East Asia wear masks even pre-COVID without legal compulsion out of common sense and civic-mindedness (whilst pretty much the rest of the world including Western liberal democracies don't) shows that good health behaviours are best nurtured organically through proper education rather than by force.
why is this pulled out all the time?
yes, pre-COVID many people in Asian countries used masks! ... _IF_ they woke up with cold or flu symptoms and wanted to have the decency to not spread it around, when they are outside or in crammed trains to work. No Asian thought "oh, I'm fit and healthy and nothing is bothering me; put my mask on because there are other people out there!" That didn't happen! So would you be ok, if people right know don't wear masks if they have no symptoms?
About the isolation:
I didn't do that in any serious capacity! And sometimes I'm curious why I'm still alive ... meeting friends, visiting my parents, going to parties with 100+ people without distancing or masks, I use the train to go to work every day, ... how I'm still healthy and alive? Listening to some of you, I should be dead and had Covid like 7 times... And it didn't happen! At least not to my knowledge (at least the Covid part; I'm halve-way sure about not being dead!)
Maybe because I'm vaccinated!? ... but didn't go into any rush for that and it is just 3 months past.
Which brings me to current events ... or back a bit:
In Mid 2020 and first vaccination reports came in, I asked what happens if Covid is mutating? And "all" people said, that is a stable virus and that doesn't happen!
And when the mRNA vaccines arrived the developers of them said that it is easy to adjust them to new variants, like Delta (back then).
And now: We have a mutated virus where our vaccines are not really working anymore and the "solution" is not to release and use improved vaccines, but "take the old and useless more often"! What is this shit? Who thinks that is good and no problem? What is going on?
There are reports, that Covid is so dangerous, because it is "attacking" many different organs in our bodies. I think the brain is a main part that it is affecting it ... maybe even without it!? But people got stupid...
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On December 11 2021 17:21 Geisterkarle wrote:
Which brings me to current events ... or back a bit:
In Mid 2020 and first vaccination reports came in, I asked what happens if Covid is mutating? And "all" people said, that is a stable virus and that doesn't happen!
It's pretty reckless of you to lie about a conversation you've had with "all" people. No, everyone did not say that covid won't mutate, and I'd imagine that very few people here would have said that covid can't mutate, especially by mid-2020. Why would you just... make this up? To make it sound like you understand covid better than other people?
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On December 11 2021 09:02 Ben... wrote:TL-related aside: I was just listening to the news while eating supper and they had a story on COVID, gatherings, and international travel. Suddenly, in the middle of the story I immediately recognized a voice being interviewed so I looked over at the TV to confirm and sure enough they were talking to TLO about the topic. Here is the web version of the story: https://globalnews.ca/news/8441328/holiday-safe-gathering-advice-covid/
Effective to reach the gaming population 
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On December 11 2021 20:32 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2021 17:21 Geisterkarle wrote:
Which brings me to current events ... or back a bit:
In Mid 2020 and first vaccination reports came in, I asked what happens if Covid is mutating? And "all" people said, that is a stable virus and that doesn't happen! It's pretty reckless of you to lie about a conversation you've had with "all" people. No, everyone did not say that covid won't mutate, and I'd imagine that very few people here would have said that covid can't mutate, especially by mid-2020. Why would you just... make this up? To make it sound like you understand covid better than other people?
That's his thing. Well, this and the excessive use of exclamation marks.
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On December 10 2021 22:49 NewSunshine wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2021 19:15 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On December 10 2021 15:08 BlackJack wrote:On December 10 2021 12:47 NewSunshine wrote:On December 10 2021 10:34 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On December 10 2021 10:30 NewSunshine wrote:On December 10 2021 09:34 GoTuNk! wrote:On December 10 2021 06:53 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Awesome! These will be most beneficial for people who already side with the science and medicine, of course, rather than those refusing to even wear masks. Have you considered some young/vaccinated people know they have a higher chance to get covid without mask, but just, *gasps* don't care about mitigating further a minuscule risk? The risk was miniscule enough to kill millions across the world. Nah that doesn't matter at all; didn't you see the *gasp* for effect!? Did I consider that, *gasp*, some people just want to be selfish dickbags? Why yes. Yes I have. Doesn't mean you can't be fucking stupid in addition to. I have to remember sometimes to take some dark comfort from Darwin's learnings. I really doubt either of you have truly isolated yourself from all forms of public entertainment and communal interactions for the last 21 months. Have you seen a movie/show/play, gone out to eat, done any traveling, etc.?? Unless you've truly isolated yourself for the last 21 months all you are really announcing is that you think you get to decide the line between acceptable risk and selfishness. That's not selflessness, that's arrogance. Actually, yes, with the exception of going to work and doing the occasional mandatory errand (e.g., buying groceries), I've been doing that very serious level of isolation. But that's way more extreme than what we were talking about, anyway - that people should at least be willing to wear masks if the situation calls for it, as per medical safety guidelines. If you're actively ignoring medical guidelines, you either don't trust the experts or you don't care about doing your part to minimize risk. Those are the two groups. Same here. I've limited to essential trips to the store, work now that I've landed a new job(which fortunately is remote 2 days a week, and in general is very safe), and very limited gatherings, usually of 5 people or less, and also preceded/followed with some level of complete shut in to be safe. So yeah, I'm a little frustrated when people boast that they know what they're doing when they don't do even the bare minimum, which as you point out, is all we were talking about before the standard became total isolation.
In that case I take back what I said. You both talk the talk and walk the walk so you've obviously earned the right to ridicule us selfish assholes that just want to live our lives. My only remaining question is what is the end-game for either of you? COVID isn't going to be eradicated anytime soon so...?
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On December 11 2021 21:03 justanothertownie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2021 20:32 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On December 11 2021 17:21 Geisterkarle wrote:
Which brings me to current events ... or back a bit:
In Mid 2020 and first vaccination reports came in, I asked what happens if Covid is mutating? And "all" people said, that is a stable virus and that doesn't happen! It's pretty reckless of you to lie about a conversation you've had with "all" people. No, everyone did not say that covid won't mutate, and I'd imagine that very few people here would have said that covid can't mutate, especially by mid-2020. Why would you just... make this up? To make it sound like you understand covid better than other people? That's his thing. Well, this and the excessive use of exclamation marks.
Yeah, I'm not sure why the exclamation mark is his primary use of punctuation, and it took me a little while to figure out that he wasn't being purposely smug or condescending or matter-of-fact all the time, despite speaking in exclamations.
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I just went through the mid-2020 pages in this thread (maybe Geisterkarle forgot that we could do that), to see if Geisterkarle was telling the truth about this: "In Mid 2020 and first vaccination reports came in, I asked what happens if Covid is mutating? And "all" people said, that is a stable virus and that doesn't happen!"
In this thread, p.145 to p.245 is from May 1, 2020 to September 1, 2020. Geisterkarle didn't have many posts during that time (and almost none of them were replied to), and the only post where Geisterkarle mentions anything about covid mutations in mid-2020 was this post, on p.171:
On May 26 2020 19:33 Geisterkarle wrote:Germany here with a little more information about that: There are probably no mutations! There seem to be a lot of factors for that outbreak! For example, it seems they had some big chorus together there. And it is already known that singing, shouting ... is a "lovely" home for droplets with the virus! And they didn't wear masks! Well, maybe a silent prayer would be better... btw. you remeber the big outbreak in south korea, that infected a lot of people? Yep, it was a church meeting! Nothing new here! for German speaking people: https://www.spiegel.de/panorama/a-e99fbe8d-857e-4e01-9206-c535f558569cAlso just for a positive note about that: While many were infected, only one person is in a hospital and most of the people didn't even notice they are infected weren't it for the test! So luckily there will probably no death from that!
Zero people responded to that post, let alone created a discussion where they were telling Geisterkarle that covid can't mutate, against Geisterkarle's ostensibly wiser suggestion that covid can mutate. That didn't happen, and Geisterkarle's stance was literally the opposite; all there is about mutations is that Geisterkarle didn't think there would be covid mutations. I don't understand why Geisterkarle would write today's "I told you so" post, when in reality Geisterkarle was at best irrelevant in the mid-2020 conversation, and at worst completely wrong >.>
Edit: Not to mention another non sequitur about how Geisterkarle not getting infected at a party means parties are necessarily safe during a global pandemic. Sigh.
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On December 11 2021 21:21 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2021 22:49 NewSunshine wrote:On December 10 2021 19:15 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On December 10 2021 15:08 BlackJack wrote:On December 10 2021 12:47 NewSunshine wrote:On December 10 2021 10:34 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On December 10 2021 10:30 NewSunshine wrote:On December 10 2021 09:34 GoTuNk! wrote:On December 10 2021 06:53 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Awesome! These will be most beneficial for people who already side with the science and medicine, of course, rather than those refusing to even wear masks. Have you considered some young/vaccinated people know they have a higher chance to get covid without mask, but just, *gasps* don't care about mitigating further a minuscule risk? The risk was miniscule enough to kill millions across the world. Nah that doesn't matter at all; didn't you see the *gasp* for effect!? Did I consider that, *gasp*, some people just want to be selfish dickbags? Why yes. Yes I have. Doesn't mean you can't be fucking stupid in addition to. I have to remember sometimes to take some dark comfort from Darwin's learnings. I really doubt either of you have truly isolated yourself from all forms of public entertainment and communal interactions for the last 21 months. Have you seen a movie/show/play, gone out to eat, done any traveling, etc.?? Unless you've truly isolated yourself for the last 21 months all you are really announcing is that you think you get to decide the line between acceptable risk and selfishness. That's not selflessness, that's arrogance. Actually, yes, with the exception of going to work and doing the occasional mandatory errand (e.g., buying groceries), I've been doing that very serious level of isolation. But that's way more extreme than what we were talking about, anyway - that people should at least be willing to wear masks if the situation calls for it, as per medical safety guidelines. If you're actively ignoring medical guidelines, you either don't trust the experts or you don't care about doing your part to minimize risk. Those are the two groups. Same here. I've limited to essential trips to the store, work now that I've landed a new job(which fortunately is remote 2 days a week, and in general is very safe), and very limited gatherings, usually of 5 people or less, and also preceded/followed with some level of complete shut in to be safe. So yeah, I'm a little frustrated when people boast that they know what they're doing when they don't do even the bare minimum, which as you point out, is all we were talking about before the standard became total isolation. In that case I take back what I said. You both talk the talk and walk the walk so you've obviously earned the right to ridicule us selfish assholes that just want to live our lives. My only remaining question is what is the end-game for either of you? COVID isn't going to be eradicated anytime soon so...?
It doesn't need to be eradicated. Eradicating a virus is virtually impossible. We just need it to not be causing death or long term effects. Omicron is a sign of hope that we can reach that eventually.
I think you are essentially approaching the idea of "just wanting to live your life" incorrectly. In WW2, there was rationing. In many other periods of human existence, we didn't really have a choice what luxuries came and went. It is easy to look back in history and find times when the situations of the time made life worse than the ideal. It feels like you start from the basic premise that you deserve all of the luxuries you have had before. It feels like you view the world as fundamentally providing rather than a result of circumstance. I think this perspective is immature and kind of absent minded. When you can look back at history and see oscillations in quality of life, luxuries, etc, it seems inappropriate for you to get so whiny about a pandemic making life worse. This will likely not be the last time in your life that quality of life goes down. You are not owed "just trying to live my life".
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Northern Ireland26225 Posts
On December 11 2021 11:56 RKC wrote:
What's equally as bad (or even worse) than disinformation is hate speech.
There's a lot of subtle anti-Asian rhetoric insinuating that their governments and societies are backward. Yes, of course governance and education is not as good as Western liberal democracies. Yes, of course it's possible that statistics are less reliable there due to less transparency.
As someone with close familial and cultural ties to that part of the world (and more appraised of the real situation on the ground), I find some of the comments here are misleading, stereotypical, and insulting. To put it bluntly - you have no experience and credibility to speak for Asia, so don't make it seem like you do (and no, simply citing random online links of news sites which are equally prone to bias doesn't add anything to your views).
Still, I'm all for free speech and prefer to avoid personal attacks. So I'll just leave this general comment. But I just hope people can take this as a friendly precautionary advice for future posting...
To what are you referring?
I think, while not necessarily always informed with intimate personal experience or knowledge that folks have been quite complimentary about how the Covid response has been managed in Asia.
Indeed many have expressed that the pre-existing culture of mask wearing that preceded Covid in many countries and that culture of consideration in terms of trying to minimise spreading of illness was a positive thing that many Western individualist values in this domain were inferior to.
Unless there’s some exchange I’ve missed, indeed the general sentiment seems to be actively against the efforts of some to stigmatise China over the Covid issue.
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Northern Ireland26225 Posts
On December 12 2021 02:16 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2021 21:21 BlackJack wrote:On December 10 2021 22:49 NewSunshine wrote:On December 10 2021 19:15 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On December 10 2021 15:08 BlackJack wrote:On December 10 2021 12:47 NewSunshine wrote:On December 10 2021 10:34 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On December 10 2021 10:30 NewSunshine wrote:On December 10 2021 09:34 GoTuNk! wrote:On December 10 2021 06:53 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
[quote]
Awesome! These will be most beneficial for people who already side with the science and medicine, of course, rather than those refusing to even wear masks. Have you considered some young/vaccinated people know they have a higher chance to get covid without mask, but just, *gasps* don't care about mitigating further a minuscule risk? The risk was miniscule enough to kill millions across the world. Nah that doesn't matter at all; didn't you see the *gasp* for effect!? Did I consider that, *gasp*, some people just want to be selfish dickbags? Why yes. Yes I have. Doesn't mean you can't be fucking stupid in addition to. I have to remember sometimes to take some dark comfort from Darwin's learnings. I really doubt either of you have truly isolated yourself from all forms of public entertainment and communal interactions for the last 21 months. Have you seen a movie/show/play, gone out to eat, done any traveling, etc.?? Unless you've truly isolated yourself for the last 21 months all you are really announcing is that you think you get to decide the line between acceptable risk and selfishness. That's not selflessness, that's arrogance. Actually, yes, with the exception of going to work and doing the occasional mandatory errand (e.g., buying groceries), I've been doing that very serious level of isolation. But that's way more extreme than what we were talking about, anyway - that people should at least be willing to wear masks if the situation calls for it, as per medical safety guidelines. If you're actively ignoring medical guidelines, you either don't trust the experts or you don't care about doing your part to minimize risk. Those are the two groups. Same here. I've limited to essential trips to the store, work now that I've landed a new job(which fortunately is remote 2 days a week, and in general is very safe), and very limited gatherings, usually of 5 people or less, and also preceded/followed with some level of complete shut in to be safe. So yeah, I'm a little frustrated when people boast that they know what they're doing when they don't do even the bare minimum, which as you point out, is all we were talking about before the standard became total isolation. In that case I take back what I said. You both talk the talk and walk the walk so you've obviously earned the right to ridicule us selfish assholes that just want to live our lives. My only remaining question is what is the end-game for either of you? COVID isn't going to be eradicated anytime soon so...? It doesn't need to be eradicated. Eradicating a virus is virtually impossible. We just need it to not be causing death or long term effects. Omicron is a sign of hope that we can reach that eventually. I think you are essentially approaching the idea of "just wanting to live your life" incorrectly. In WW2, there was rationing. In many other periods of human existence, we didn't really have a choice what luxuries came and went. It is easy to look back in history and find times when the situations of the time made life worse than the ideal. It feels like you start from the basic premise that you deserve all of the luxuries you have had before. It feels like you view the world as fundamentally providing rather than a result of circumstance. I think this perspective is immature and kind of absent minded. When you can look back at history and see oscillations in quality of life, luxuries, etc, it seems inappropriate for you to get so whiny about a pandemic making life worse. This will likely not be the last time in your life that quality of life goes down. You are not owed "just trying to live my life".
This is a good and far, far too seldom made point.
Especially pertinent when it comes to addressing climate change. We’ll just collectively walk headfirst into a climate catastrophe because people are entitled to live the same way as those before them. Never mind huge global inequities in baseline quality of life.
In this particular scenario I think it’s important to establish what the ‘new normal’ is, if indeed there is to be a particular shift. There still appears to be much in the air in that regard, understandable given it’s a shifting scenario.
If it’s wearing masks in some places and getting the occasional vaccine booster that’s a pretty limited imposition, if it’s frequent lockdowns in perpetuity that’s a considerably more restrictive policy.
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On December 11 2021 21:21 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2021 22:49 NewSunshine wrote:On December 10 2021 19:15 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On December 10 2021 15:08 BlackJack wrote:On December 10 2021 12:47 NewSunshine wrote:On December 10 2021 10:34 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On December 10 2021 10:30 NewSunshine wrote:On December 10 2021 09:34 GoTuNk! wrote:On December 10 2021 06:53 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Awesome! These will be most beneficial for people who already side with the science and medicine, of course, rather than those refusing to even wear masks. Have you considered some young/vaccinated people know they have a higher chance to get covid without mask, but just, *gasps* don't care about mitigating further a minuscule risk? The risk was miniscule enough to kill millions across the world. Nah that doesn't matter at all; didn't you see the *gasp* for effect!? Did I consider that, *gasp*, some people just want to be selfish dickbags? Why yes. Yes I have. Doesn't mean you can't be fucking stupid in addition to. I have to remember sometimes to take some dark comfort from Darwin's learnings. I really doubt either of you have truly isolated yourself from all forms of public entertainment and communal interactions for the last 21 months. Have you seen a movie/show/play, gone out to eat, done any traveling, etc.?? Unless you've truly isolated yourself for the last 21 months all you are really announcing is that you think you get to decide the line between acceptable risk and selfishness. That's not selflessness, that's arrogance. Actually, yes, with the exception of going to work and doing the occasional mandatory errand (e.g., buying groceries), I've been doing that very serious level of isolation. But that's way more extreme than what we were talking about, anyway - that people should at least be willing to wear masks if the situation calls for it, as per medical safety guidelines. If you're actively ignoring medical guidelines, you either don't trust the experts or you don't care about doing your part to minimize risk. Those are the two groups. Same here. I've limited to essential trips to the store, work now that I've landed a new job(which fortunately is remote 2 days a week, and in general is very safe), and very limited gatherings, usually of 5 people or less, and also preceded/followed with some level of complete shut in to be safe. So yeah, I'm a little frustrated when people boast that they know what they're doing when they don't do even the bare minimum, which as you point out, is all we were talking about before the standard became total isolation. In that case I take back what I said. You both talk the talk and walk the walk so you've obviously earned the right to ridicule us selfish assholes that just want to live our lives. My only remaining question is what is the end-game for either of you? COVID isn't going to be eradicated anytime soon so...?
I think you're making a mistake in assuming that because I don't attend large social gatherings that I'm not "living my life". My loved ones and I are being safe and adjusting to the times we live in, we didn't curl up into the fetal position under a rock and hope it all goes back to 2019. Framing it as an end-game we're hoping to reach is incorrect, at least in my view.
Also I wasn't really aiming that at you, I was responding to gotunk being belligerent and condescending about being selfish and not wearing masks. If you want to lump yourself in there, that's up to you.
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How is wearing a mask during public transit affecting your life BlackJack ? You make it sound as some kind of herculean task, so i'd like to hear why you think so.
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On December 12 2021 07:10 Erasme wrote:
How is wearing a mask during public transit affecting your life BlackJack ? You make it sound as some kind of herculean task, so i'd like to hear why you think so.
I said nothing about it affecting my life. I have no issue wearing a mask. I have an issue with people thinking they get to be the deciders of what is an acceptable risk and what is selfish behavior. You never see these people calling out others for wearing cloth masks even though we know that cloth masks are pretty trash compared to surgical masks or n95s. Maybe if they brought the same energy to the cloth mask wearers I would actually believe them that they care about preventing transmission and not just virtue signaling.
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Northern Ireland26225 Posts
On December 12 2021 07:34 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2021 07:10 Erasme wrote:
How is wearing a mask during public transit affecting your life BlackJack ? You make it sound as some kind of herculean task, so i'd like to hear why you think so. I said nothing about it affecting my life. I have no issue wearing a mask. I have an issue with people thinking they get to be the deciders of what is an acceptable risk and what is selfish behavior. You never see these people calling out others for wearing cloth masks even though we know that cloth masks are pretty trash compared to surgical masks or n95s. Maybe if they brought the same energy to the cloth mask wearers I would actually believe them that they care about preventing transmission and not just virtue signaling.
Well no, why would they?
Yeah let’s apply the same energy to people using sub-optimal masks as those who just refuse to use masks for whatever reason they have.
They’re not remotely equivalent and you must know this.
Ridiculous post, and you’re usually pretty sensible
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On December 12 2021 02:16 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2021 21:21 BlackJack wrote:On December 10 2021 22:49 NewSunshine wrote:On December 10 2021 19:15 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On December 10 2021 15:08 BlackJack wrote:On December 10 2021 12:47 NewSunshine wrote:On December 10 2021 10:34 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On December 10 2021 10:30 NewSunshine wrote:On December 10 2021 09:34 GoTuNk! wrote:On December 10 2021 06:53 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
[quote]
Awesome! These will be most beneficial for people who already side with the science and medicine, of course, rather than those refusing to even wear masks. Have you considered some young/vaccinated people know they have a higher chance to get covid without mask, but just, *gasps* don't care about mitigating further a minuscule risk? The risk was miniscule enough to kill millions across the world. Nah that doesn't matter at all; didn't you see the *gasp* for effect!? Did I consider that, *gasp*, some people just want to be selfish dickbags? Why yes. Yes I have. Doesn't mean you can't be fucking stupid in addition to. I have to remember sometimes to take some dark comfort from Darwin's learnings. I really doubt either of you have truly isolated yourself from all forms of public entertainment and communal interactions for the last 21 months. Have you seen a movie/show/play, gone out to eat, done any traveling, etc.?? Unless you've truly isolated yourself for the last 21 months all you are really announcing is that you think you get to decide the line between acceptable risk and selfishness. That's not selflessness, that's arrogance. Actually, yes, with the exception of going to work and doing the occasional mandatory errand (e.g., buying groceries), I've been doing that very serious level of isolation. But that's way more extreme than what we were talking about, anyway - that people should at least be willing to wear masks if the situation calls for it, as per medical safety guidelines. If you're actively ignoring medical guidelines, you either don't trust the experts or you don't care about doing your part to minimize risk. Those are the two groups. Same here. I've limited to essential trips to the store, work now that I've landed a new job(which fortunately is remote 2 days a week, and in general is very safe), and very limited gatherings, usually of 5 people or less, and also preceded/followed with some level of complete shut in to be safe. So yeah, I'm a little frustrated when people boast that they know what they're doing when they don't do even the bare minimum, which as you point out, is all we were talking about before the standard became total isolation. In that case I take back what I said. You both talk the talk and walk the walk so you've obviously earned the right to ridicule us selfish assholes that just want to live our lives. My only remaining question is what is the end-game for either of you? COVID isn't going to be eradicated anytime soon so...? It doesn't need to be eradicated. Eradicating a virus is virtually impossible. We just need it to not be causing death or long term effects. Omicron is a sign of hope that we can reach that eventually. I think you are essentially approaching the idea of "just wanting to live your life" incorrectly. In WW2, there was rationing. In many other periods of human existence, we didn't really have a choice what luxuries came and went. It is easy to look back in history and find times when the situations of the time made life worse than the ideal. It feels like you start from the basic premise that you deserve all of the luxuries you have had before. It feels like you view the world as fundamentally providing rather than a result of circumstance. I think this perspective is immature and kind of absent minded. When you can look back at history and see oscillations in quality of life, luxuries, etc, it seems inappropriate for you to get so whiny about a pandemic making life worse. This will likely not be the last time in your life that quality of life goes down. You are not owed "just trying to live my life".
Just FYI, the so called "medical experts" here in the US don't advocate for the level of isolation that DarkPlasmaBall and NewSunShine have chosen for themselves or for your ideas that we "shouldn't have tourism." They understand that millions of people support their livelihoods from entertainment, tourism, restaurants, etc. They are capable of looking at more than just COVID deaths/hospitalizations. They also understand how socioeconomic status affects health and how much life expectancy will be lost when you'd rather have these people in the bread line. There's a reason why the medical experts and governments don't adopt your idea of "we shouldn't have tourism." It's not because you care so much more about human life than them, it's because your ideas are really really dumb.
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On December 12 2021 07:50 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2021 07:34 BlackJack wrote:On December 12 2021 07:10 Erasme wrote:
How is wearing a mask during public transit affecting your life BlackJack ? You make it sound as some kind of herculean task, so i'd like to hear why you think so. I said nothing about it affecting my life. I have no issue wearing a mask. I have an issue with people thinking they get to be the deciders of what is an acceptable risk and what is selfish behavior. You never see these people calling out others for wearing cloth masks even though we know that cloth masks are pretty trash compared to surgical masks or n95s. Maybe if they brought the same energy to the cloth mask wearers I would actually believe them that they care about preventing transmission and not just virtue signaling. Well no, why would they? Yeah let’s apply the same energy to people using sub-optimal masks as those who just refuse to use masks for whatever reason they have. They’re not remotely equivalent and you must know this. Ridiculous post, and you’re usually pretty sensible
By "sub-optimal" do you mean terrible?
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/15/are-cloth-masks-effective-for-covid-surgical-masks-vs-kn95-explained.html
In an August study, currently under peer review, a group of researchers from universities including Yale and Stanford found that surgical masks are 95% effective at filtering out virus particles — compared to just 37% for cloth masks.
No mask = 0%
Cloth mask = 37%
Surgical mask = 95%
Imagine being 10x more concerned about going from 0% to 37% than from 37% to 95%.
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On December 12 2021 07:59 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2021 02:16 Mohdoo wrote:On December 11 2021 21:21 BlackJack wrote:On December 10 2021 22:49 NewSunshine wrote:On December 10 2021 19:15 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On December 10 2021 15:08 BlackJack wrote:On December 10 2021 12:47 NewSunshine wrote:On December 10 2021 10:34 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On December 10 2021 10:30 NewSunshine wrote:On December 10 2021 09:34 GoTuNk! wrote:
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Have you considered some young/vaccinated people know they have a higher chance to get covid without mask, but just, *gasps* don't care about mitigating further a minuscule risk? The risk was miniscule enough to kill millions across the world. Nah that doesn't matter at all; didn't you see the *gasp* for effect!? Did I consider that, *gasp*, some people just want to be selfish dickbags? Why yes. Yes I have. Doesn't mean you can't be fucking stupid in addition to. I have to remember sometimes to take some dark comfort from Darwin's learnings. I really doubt either of you have truly isolated yourself from all forms of public entertainment and communal interactions for the last 21 months. Have you seen a movie/show/play, gone out to eat, done any traveling, etc.?? Unless you've truly isolated yourself for the last 21 months all you are really announcing is that you think you get to decide the line between acceptable risk and selfishness. That's not selflessness, that's arrogance. Actually, yes, with the exception of going to work and doing the occasional mandatory errand (e.g., buying groceries), I've been doing that very serious level of isolation. But that's way more extreme than what we were talking about, anyway - that people should at least be willing to wear masks if the situation calls for it, as per medical safety guidelines. If you're actively ignoring medical guidelines, you either don't trust the experts or you don't care about doing your part to minimize risk. Those are the two groups. Same here. I've limited to essential trips to the store, work now that I've landed a new job(which fortunately is remote 2 days a week, and in general is very safe), and very limited gatherings, usually of 5 people or less, and also preceded/followed with some level of complete shut in to be safe. So yeah, I'm a little frustrated when people boast that they know what they're doing when they don't do even the bare minimum, which as you point out, is all we were talking about before the standard became total isolation. In that case I take back what I said. You both talk the talk and walk the walk so you've obviously earned the right to ridicule us selfish assholes that just want to live our lives. My only remaining question is what is the end-game for either of you? COVID isn't going to be eradicated anytime soon so...? It doesn't need to be eradicated. Eradicating a virus is virtually impossible. We just need it to not be causing death or long term effects. Omicron is a sign of hope that we can reach that eventually. I think you are essentially approaching the idea of "just wanting to live your life" incorrectly. In WW2, there was rationing. In many other periods of human existence, we didn't really have a choice what luxuries came and went. It is easy to look back in history and find times when the situations of the time made life worse than the ideal. It feels like you start from the basic premise that you deserve all of the luxuries you have had before. It feels like you view the world as fundamentally providing rather than a result of circumstance. I think this perspective is immature and kind of absent minded. When you can look back at history and see oscillations in quality of life, luxuries, etc, it seems inappropriate for you to get so whiny about a pandemic making life worse. This will likely not be the last time in your life that quality of life goes down. You are not owed "just trying to live my life". Just FYI, the so called "medical experts" here in the US don't advocate for the level of isolation that DarkPlasmaBall and NewSunShine have chosen for themselves or for your ideas that we "shouldn't have tourism." They understand that millions of people support their livelihoods from entertainment, tourism, restaurants, etc. They are capable of looking at more than just COVID deaths/hospitalizations. They also understand how socioeconomic status affects health and how much life expectancy will be lost when you'd rather have these people in the bread line. There's a reason why the medical experts and governments don't adopt your idea of "we shouldn't have tourism." It's not because you care so much more about human life than them, it's because your ideas are really really dumb.
It feels like rather than addressing what I said, you are just sticking your tongue out at me here. Why not respond to what I said?
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EPT
