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Added a disclaimer on page 662. Many need to post better. |
On December 10 2021 19:50 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2021 18:08 justanothertownie wrote:On December 10 2021 17:23 Liquid`Drone wrote:On December 10 2021 10:30 NewSunshine wrote:On December 10 2021 09:34 GoTuNk! wrote:On December 10 2021 06:53 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Awesome! These will be most beneficial for people who already side with the science and medicine, of course, rather than those refusing to even wear masks. Have you considered some young/vaccinated people know they have a higher chance to get covid without mask, but just, *gasps* don't care about mitigating further a minuscule risk? The risk was miniscule enough to kill millions across the world. Millions of young/vaccinated people? As a Norwegian during winter I actually quite enjoy wearing a mask and sometimes wear one even when walking by myself outside, but if you're young, vaccinated and asymptomatic then I really can't picture that making a significant difference in terms of how likely you are to get seriously ill (even though the chance of getting covid increases, young and vaccinated people are really unlikely to be seriously harmed by that illness) or to infect others with serious illness (even though asymptomatic people can spread covid, a vast majority of asymptomatic people don't actually have it). yes yes, wearing masks while using public transportation or crowded places during periods where regional infection is high makes sense and is just good and doesn't really come with negative side effects, but cmon, Gotunks specifies 'young/vaccinated people' - the risks for this group is indeed very small. I guess he could have added 'without obvious comorbidities, but imo it's pretty much implied. There aren't millions of dead within this group. I fail to see how any of that changes it being selfish and stupid as long as the mask can stop some young people from infecting others. Not to mention that the risk is not as miniscule as people like to pretend even for young people. But of course you only want to look at death rates again, right? It's becoming clear that COVID won't be eradicated. Are you committed to wearing a mask for the rest of your life? Or is there some point when you think it will become reasonable to be a selfish dickbag?
I think mask use is probably here to stay as well... just as it has already been a part of life in most of Asia for a considerable time...
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On December 10 2021 19:51 maybenexttime wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2021 09:34 GoTuNk! wrote:On December 10 2021 06:53 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Awesome! These will be most beneficial for people who already side with the science and medicine, of course, rather than those refusing to even wear masks. Have you considered some young/vaccinated people know they have a higher chance to get covid without mask, but just, *gasps* don't care about mitigating further a minuscule risk? Have you considered that not everything is about you?
Yes, that's why I'm not hell bent on forcing certain behaviour on other people and claiming government should force compliance into the level of risk I think is acceptable. I fully support people's right to wear masks everywhere they go (or not)
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On December 10 2021 22:17 GoTuNk! wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2021 19:51 maybenexttime wrote:On December 10 2021 09:34 GoTuNk! wrote:On December 10 2021 06:53 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Awesome! These will be most beneficial for people who already side with the science and medicine, of course, rather than those refusing to even wear masks. Have you considered some young/vaccinated people know they have a higher chance to get covid without mask, but just, *gasps* don't care about mitigating further a minuscule risk? Have you considered that not everything is about you? Yes, that's why I'm not hell bent on forcing certain behaviour on other people and claiming government should force compliance into the level of risk I think is acceptable. I fully support people's right to wear masks everywhere they go (or not)
That is an unbelievably warped line of reasoning, and quickly falls apart as soon as you realize that rules, laws, and public safety guidelines need to exist for societies to run smoothly. The whole "everyone should do whatever they want to do without worrying about the effects and consequences those actions may have on other people" argument is an incredibly immature and impractical perspective.
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On December 10 2021 19:15 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2021 15:08 BlackJack wrote:On December 10 2021 12:47 NewSunshine wrote:On December 10 2021 10:34 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On December 10 2021 10:30 NewSunshine wrote:On December 10 2021 09:34 GoTuNk! wrote:On December 10 2021 06:53 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Awesome! These will be most beneficial for people who already side with the science and medicine, of course, rather than those refusing to even wear masks. Have you considered some young/vaccinated people know they have a higher chance to get covid without mask, but just, *gasps* don't care about mitigating further a minuscule risk? The risk was miniscule enough to kill millions across the world. Nah that doesn't matter at all; didn't you see the *gasp* for effect!? Did I consider that, *gasp*, some people just want to be selfish dickbags? Why yes. Yes I have. Doesn't mean you can't be fucking stupid in addition to. I have to remember sometimes to take some dark comfort from Darwin's learnings. I really doubt either of you have truly isolated yourself from all forms of public entertainment and communal interactions for the last 21 months. Have you seen a movie/show/play, gone out to eat, done any traveling, etc.?? Unless you've truly isolated yourself for the last 21 months all you are really announcing is that you think you get to decide the line between acceptable risk and selfishness. That's not selflessness, that's arrogance. Actually, yes, with the exception of going to work and doing the occasional mandatory errand (e.g., buying groceries), I've been doing that very serious level of isolation. But that's way more extreme than what we were talking about, anyway - that people should at least be willing to wear masks if the situation calls for it, as per medical safety guidelines. If you're actively ignoring medical guidelines, you either don't trust the experts or you don't care about doing your part to minimize risk. Those are the two groups.
Same here. I've limited to essential trips to the store, work now that I've landed a new job(which fortunately is remote 2 days a week, and in general is very safe), and very limited gatherings, usually of 5 people or less, and also preceded/followed with some level of complete shut in to be safe.
So yeah, I'm a little frustrated when people boast that they know what they're doing when they don't do even the bare minimum, which as you point out, is all we were talking about before the standard became total isolation.
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On December 10 2021 22:24 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2021 22:17 GoTuNk! wrote:On December 10 2021 19:51 maybenexttime wrote:On December 10 2021 09:34 GoTuNk! wrote:On December 10 2021 06:53 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Awesome! These will be most beneficial for people who already side with the science and medicine, of course, rather than those refusing to even wear masks. Have you considered some young/vaccinated people know they have a higher chance to get covid without mask, but just, *gasps* don't care about mitigating further a minuscule risk? Have you considered that not everything is about you? Yes, that's why I'm not hell bent on forcing certain behaviour on other people and claiming government should force compliance into the level of risk I think is acceptable. I fully support people's right to wear masks everywhere they go (or not) That is an unbelievably warped line of reasoning, and quickly falls apart as soon as you realize that rules, laws, and public safety guidelines need to exist for societies to run smoothly. The whole "everyone should do whatever they want to do without worrying about the effects and consequences those actions may have on other people" argument is an incredibly immature and impractical perspective.
No it is not, it is an understanding that there is a spectrum between anarchy and totalitarian dictatorship, and it is a matter of political discussion which behaviours are prohibited and enforced by law. It used to be that we elected representatives and they passed laws; now it seems governors and other bureaucrats get to decide new forbidden and mandatory behaviors under the guise of a permanent and ill defined "state of emergency".
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On December 10 2021 22:49 NewSunshine wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2021 19:15 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On December 10 2021 15:08 BlackJack wrote:On December 10 2021 12:47 NewSunshine wrote:On December 10 2021 10:34 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On December 10 2021 10:30 NewSunshine wrote:On December 10 2021 09:34 GoTuNk! wrote:On December 10 2021 06:53 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Awesome! These will be most beneficial for people who already side with the science and medicine, of course, rather than those refusing to even wear masks. Have you considered some young/vaccinated people know they have a higher chance to get covid without mask, but just, *gasps* don't care about mitigating further a minuscule risk? The risk was miniscule enough to kill millions across the world. Nah that doesn't matter at all; didn't you see the *gasp* for effect!? Did I consider that, *gasp*, some people just want to be selfish dickbags? Why yes. Yes I have. Doesn't mean you can't be fucking stupid in addition to. I have to remember sometimes to take some dark comfort from Darwin's learnings. I really doubt either of you have truly isolated yourself from all forms of public entertainment and communal interactions for the last 21 months. Have you seen a movie/show/play, gone out to eat, done any traveling, etc.?? Unless you've truly isolated yourself for the last 21 months all you are really announcing is that you think you get to decide the line between acceptable risk and selfishness. That's not selflessness, that's arrogance. Actually, yes, with the exception of going to work and doing the occasional mandatory errand (e.g., buying groceries), I've been doing that very serious level of isolation. But that's way more extreme than what we were talking about, anyway - that people should at least be willing to wear masks if the situation calls for it, as per medical safety guidelines. If you're actively ignoring medical guidelines, you either don't trust the experts or you don't care about doing your part to minimize risk. Those are the two groups. Same here. I've limited to essential trips to the store, work now that I've landed a new job(which fortunately is remote 2 days a week, and in general is very safe), and very limited gatherings, usually of 5 people or less, and also preceded/followed with some level of complete shut in to be safe. So yeah, I'm a little frustrated when people boast that they know what they're doing when they don't do even the bare minimum, which as you point out, is all we were talking about before the standard became total isolation.
I always assume people on teamliquid are young. Is there a particular reason you feel the need to take extra precautions about covid?
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On December 10 2021 22:17 GoTuNk! wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2021 19:51 maybenexttime wrote:On December 10 2021 09:34 GoTuNk! wrote:On December 10 2021 06:53 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Awesome! These will be most beneficial for people who already side with the science and medicine, of course, rather than those refusing to even wear masks. Have you considered some young/vaccinated people know they have a higher chance to get covid without mask, but just, *gasps* don't care about mitigating further a minuscule risk? Have you considered that not everything is about you? Yes, that's why I'm not hell bent on forcing certain behaviour on other people and claiming government should force compliance into the level of risk I think is acceptable. I fully support people's right to wear masks everywhere they go (or not)
Would be a shame then if your decision not to wear a mask affected other people...
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On December 10 2021 22:52 GoTuNk! wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2021 22:49 NewSunshine wrote:On December 10 2021 19:15 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On December 10 2021 15:08 BlackJack wrote:On December 10 2021 12:47 NewSunshine wrote:On December 10 2021 10:34 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On December 10 2021 10:30 NewSunshine wrote:On December 10 2021 09:34 GoTuNk! wrote:On December 10 2021 06:53 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Awesome! These will be most beneficial for people who already side with the science and medicine, of course, rather than those refusing to even wear masks. Have you considered some young/vaccinated people know they have a higher chance to get covid without mask, but just, *gasps* don't care about mitigating further a minuscule risk? The risk was miniscule enough to kill millions across the world. Nah that doesn't matter at all; didn't you see the *gasp* for effect!? Did I consider that, *gasp*, some people just want to be selfish dickbags? Why yes. Yes I have. Doesn't mean you can't be fucking stupid in addition to. I have to remember sometimes to take some dark comfort from Darwin's learnings. I really doubt either of you have truly isolated yourself from all forms of public entertainment and communal interactions for the last 21 months. Have you seen a movie/show/play, gone out to eat, done any traveling, etc.?? Unless you've truly isolated yourself for the last 21 months all you are really announcing is that you think you get to decide the line between acceptable risk and selfishness. That's not selflessness, that's arrogance. Actually, yes, with the exception of going to work and doing the occasional mandatory errand (e.g., buying groceries), I've been doing that very serious level of isolation. But that's way more extreme than what we were talking about, anyway - that people should at least be willing to wear masks if the situation calls for it, as per medical safety guidelines. If you're actively ignoring medical guidelines, you either don't trust the experts or you don't care about doing your part to minimize risk. Those are the two groups. Same here. I've limited to essential trips to the store, work now that I've landed a new job(which fortunately is remote 2 days a week, and in general is very safe), and very limited gatherings, usually of 5 people or less, and also preceded/followed with some level of complete shut in to be safe. So yeah, I'm a little frustrated when people boast that they know what they're doing when they don't do even the bare minimum, which as you point out, is all we were talking about before the standard became total isolation. I always assume people on teamliquid are young. Is there a particular reason you feel the need to take extra precautions about covid?
Because I have family that are older and/or immune compromised, which in all is a fairly typical scenario. So I don't fuck around with exposure risks, because I understand that I have the potential to hurt people that I love.
I'm also not in the greatest of shape for someone pushing 30, so the idea of being infected and having difficulty, possibly long term, with catching and keeping my breath sucks ass. But at large, it's not about me.
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The fact that only societies in East Asia* wear masks even pre-COVID without legal compulsion out of common sense and civic-mindedness (whilst pretty much the rest of the world including Western liberal democracies don't) shows that good health behaviours are best nurtured organically through proper education rather than by force.
So yes, I'm totally on board with Drone's point.
* generally speaking, may be wrong and miss out some other outlier country
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Also, some of us were young back in 2002 when this page started 
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Higher taxes? Jimmi US inflation figures came out two hours ago at 6.8%, the highest since 1982.Biden admin has completely lost control of inflation.Continue with the restrictions, lockdowns and mandates and it’ll keep going up because thats whats been causing it to skyrocket.
The latest shortage is in AdBlue which diesel trucks require to operate.The supply chain crisis is teetering towards an explosion.All indications are omicron is a far far weaker strain so all restrictions and mandates need to be lifted or inflation and supply issues will continue to worsen.
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Northern Ireland27464 Posts
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On December 11 2021 01:27 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2021 01:17 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
Higher taxes? Jimmi US inflation figures came out two hours ago at 6.8%, the highest since 1982.Biden admin has completely lost control of inflation.Continue with the restrictions, lockdowns and mandates and it’ll keep going up because thats whats been causing it to skyrocket.
The latest shortage is in AdBlue which diesel trucks require to operate.The supply chain crisis is teetering towards an explosion.All indications are omicron is a far far weaker strain so all restrictions and mandates need to be lifted or inflation and supply issues will continue to worsen. Your problem is you are blaming the symptoms and not the cause sir. The Cause is covid not the restrictions. Its not hard if you think rationally. You don't need the restrictions if everyone is vaccinated. The only way to dispute this is if you don't believe that the vaccine is as effective as reported. Do you not believe it reduces hospitalizations by 11x? Do you think it makes things worse? Or do you even think Covid is real?
You're giving him too much credit by even associating inflation with Covid in the first place. Given that the economy is full of wonky figures right now, like US household wealth having surged almost $36 trillion dollars since the first quarter of 2020 , one should acknowledge the vulgar economic arguments of folks like iPlaY.NettleS for what they are, anti-Covid measure polemics with a very tenuous relation to Covid's actual impact on the economy.
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On December 11 2021 01:27 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2021 01:17 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
Higher taxes? Jimmi US inflation figures came out two hours ago at 6.8%, the highest since 1982.Biden admin has completely lost control of inflation.Continue with the restrictions, lockdowns and mandates and it’ll keep going up because thats whats been causing it to skyrocket.
The latest shortage is in AdBlue which diesel trucks require to operate.The supply chain crisis is teetering towards an explosion.All indications are omicron is a far far weaker strain so all restrictions and mandates need to be lifted or inflation and supply issues will continue to worsen. Your problem is you are blaming the symptoms and not the cause sir. The Cause is covid not the restrictions. Its not hard if you think rationally. You don't need the restrictions if everyone is vaccinated. The only way to dispute this is if you don't believe that the vaccine is as effective as reported. Do you not believe it reduces hospitalizations by 11x? Do you think it makes things worse? Or do you even think Covid is real?
Yes, I doubt the vaccine is as effective as previously stated as the UK has recently reduced the minimum time between booster doses to three months.We had a bet if you recall that you believed Australia would recommend only one booster for 2022, stated barely three months ago in August.
My thoughts on the matter don’t change, you just continually defend governments and pharmaceutical corporations that keep shifting goalposts.
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On December 11 2021 01:38 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2021 01:27 JimmiC wrote:On December 11 2021 01:17 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
Higher taxes? Jimmi US inflation figures came out two hours ago at 6.8%, the highest since 1982.Biden admin has completely lost control of inflation.Continue with the restrictions, lockdowns and mandates and it’ll keep going up because thats whats been causing it to skyrocket.
The latest shortage is in AdBlue which diesel trucks require to operate.The supply chain crisis is teetering towards an explosion.All indications are omicron is a far far weaker strain so all restrictions and mandates need to be lifted or inflation and supply issues will continue to worsen. Your problem is you are blaming the symptoms and not the cause sir. The Cause is covid not the restrictions. Its not hard if you think rationally. You don't need the restrictions if everyone is vaccinated. The only way to dispute this is if you don't believe that the vaccine is as effective as reported. Do you not believe it reduces hospitalizations by 11x? Do you think it makes things worse? Or do you even think Covid is real? You're giving him too much credit by even associating inflation with Covid in the first place. Given that the economy is full of wonky figures right now, like US household wealth having surged almost $36 trillion dollars since the first quarter of 2020 , one should acknowledge the vulgar economic arguments of folks like iPlaY.NettleS for what they are, anti-Covid measure polemics with a very tenuous relation to Covid's actual impact on the economy.
Hardly a controversial suggestion, one shared by US treasury Sec Yellen...
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/11/14/white-house-ties-inflation-fix-controlling-covid-pandemic/8615464002/
White House sees solving pandemic, supply chain disruptions as key to ending inflation spike
Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen said in a CBS News interview Sunday: “I think it's important to realize that the cause of this inflation is the pandemic. It shut down our economy. It boosted unemployment to almost 15%, and we've been opening up in fits and starts."
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On December 11 2021 01:48 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2021 01:38 farvacola wrote:On December 11 2021 01:27 JimmiC wrote:On December 11 2021 01:17 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
Higher taxes? Jimmi US inflation figures came out two hours ago at 6.8%, the highest since 1982.Biden admin has completely lost control of inflation.Continue with the restrictions, lockdowns and mandates and it’ll keep going up because thats whats been causing it to skyrocket.
The latest shortage is in AdBlue which diesel trucks require to operate.The supply chain crisis is teetering towards an explosion.All indications are omicron is a far far weaker strain so all restrictions and mandates need to be lifted or inflation and supply issues will continue to worsen. Your problem is you are blaming the symptoms and not the cause sir. The Cause is covid not the restrictions. Its not hard if you think rationally. You don't need the restrictions if everyone is vaccinated. The only way to dispute this is if you don't believe that the vaccine is as effective as reported. Do you not believe it reduces hospitalizations by 11x? Do you think it makes things worse? Or do you even think Covid is real? You're giving him too much credit by even associating inflation with Covid in the first place. Given that the economy is full of wonky figures right now, like US household wealth having surged almost $36 trillion dollars since the first quarter of 2020 , one should acknowledge the vulgar economic arguments of folks like iPlaY.NettleS for what they are, anti-Covid measure polemics with a very tenuous relation to Covid's actual impact on the economy. Hardly a controversial suggestion, one shared by US treasury Sec Yellen... https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/11/14/white-house-ties-inflation-fix-controlling-covid-pandemic/8615464002/Show nested quote +
White House sees solving pandemic, supply chain disruptions as key to ending inflation spike
Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen said in a CBS News interview Sunday: “I think it's important to realize that the cause of this inflation is the pandemic. It shut down our economy. It boosted unemployment to almost 15%, and we've been opening up in fits and starts."
You conveniently left out the very next line:
Yellen predicted that if the pandemic is contained, she expects prices to return to normal "sometime in the second half of next year."
But sure, I’ll concede that it’s not controversial to associate Covid with inflation, despite that being a specious claim without heavy qualification.
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EPT
