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Added a disclaimer on page 662. Many need to post better. |
My personal opinion on Australia's position is that we have three key failures:
#1 is the failure to procure a diverse supply of vaccines.
The federal government bet the farm on AZ very, very early and was incredibly slow to consider other options. This was their one damn job and they phoned it in.
Anyone who works in the industry can tell you that the fraction of pharmaceuticals that progress from the lab to approval is low, and the number that do so without rare side effects is almost zero. For something as important as the country's path out of lockdown, diversified risk is everything and they just decided not to bother once they found one they could stick a kangaroo and a green triangle on. We still don't even have moderna and J&J. This alone should see Morrison booted out.
#2 is the failure to provide adequate quarantine facilities while borders are closed.
It was apparent from the federal government's own policy back in July '20 that travel would be restricted until the end of '21 at absolute best. With eighteen months to build capacity in appropriate locations like Howard Springs, they instead chose to depend on a tiny number of existing properties with inadequate ventilation in the middle of our largest population centres, and then dealt with the inevitable problems by using even less of them.
Surprise, tens of thousands of passport holders are still stuck overseas, our universities and skilled migration pathways are in ruins, and every two months our population centres get shut down anyway.
#3 is the absolute hysteria around AZ.
This is on our health advisors, for their complete inability to see the damage their stance on AZ has done to public confidence in vaccines. They bear enormous responsibility for our rates of hesitancy. The Queensland CHO has been asked this question every day in the public briefings this week and has continued to bat it away. Today she admitted that now was maybe finally possibly the time for under-60s to start thinking about getting AZ.
No, that time was months ago and you bet there would never be an outbreak, so here we are.
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On August 03 2021 11:05 evilfatsh1t wrote:
how are nz's restrictions any different to say sydneys when we had no transmission? hence the same level of restrictions as australia statement. i expected posters to exercise some common sense when reading and discern the fact that in the current situation with hundreds of cases in one country and zero in the other, restrictions are not going to be identical.
Australia has been under lockdown, so your claim of NZ restrictions being as bad as Australia's is strictly a falsehood and there's no "common sense" interpretation of your words that would make it seem otherwise.
traffic is the same level as pre pandemic? not sure where you got this idea from
From my colleague who lives in NZ and has been enjoying nice skiing activities the whole day. I trust his word (he even sent pictures), and I see no reason to trust you.
but it seems my previous post didnt register. their borders are closed.
You didn't refer to their borders. People don't live inside your head, so if you think it's obvious that you were talking about the border situation, then there's work to be done on your communication skills. You're instead talking of "common sense". Get a grip, this is entirely on you.
no they do not have the same amount of traffic.
Do you want to have a chat with my colleague about that?
also again about "normal life". its not normal to have no access to any other country for going on 2 years.
That's not in the hands of NZ, the pandemic is global. They're trying to fight their epidemic and they've been doing a great job. The New Zealanders have been enjoying way more liberties than most other countries in the world. Quite similar to Taiwan.
what does not having an outbreak for a while have anything to do with the speed in which jacinda ardern enforces lockdowns on her cities?
Her policies were highly effective. No lockdowns for over a year. No infections. Barely any restrictions on people's liberties. Compared to most other countries, NZ has done a great job at handling this pandemic.
my point is shes as trigger happy as our worst offenders in australia (vic and qld premiers).
Her alleged "trigger happiness" has made New Zealand one of the most free countries during this pandemic.
believe what you want.
I believe you're frantically trying to cover up your lies. I was initially going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you were simply parotting lies someone else told you. Since you're doubling down on your claims, I firmly believe you made up those lies yourself. You're therefore causing disruption in the discourse surrounding the pandemic, and I consider that unacceptable. Lives and liberties are at stake, the truth is therefore paramount, and you're putting your ego above that.
sick of having to explain the situation to someone who struggles with reading comprehension let alone develop any sort of perspective outside his own experiences.
You can leave this thread anytime you like. I don't mind not having to address lies.
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Look, I don't agree with him but this is the only real point:
On August 03 2021 11:58 Magic Powers wrote:You didn't refer to their borders. People don't live inside your head, so if you think it's obvious that you were talking about the border situation, then there's work to be done on your communication skills. You're instead talking of "common sense". Get a grip, this is entirely on you.
He only cares about the borders so he considers NZ to be as "bad" as Australia, because we have the same border systems. Why he only cares about the borders I'm not sure, but he's not actively lying. He's just very poor at communicating his issue.
He's also correct that NZ enforces lockdowns quickly. They have a small population and less inbound travellers so they have had less outbreaks, but they would absolutely use lockdowns as soon as cases appeared.
There's only really one Australian state that doesn't do the same. Unsurprisingly, it's the one that's failing to contain the current outbreak.
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The deal with Australia is the PM believed it would be better to have domestic manufacture of vaccines because it would ensure better supply.mRNA was unable to be made here so he bet on the failed UoQ vaccine, scrapped last year, which gave people false positives for HIV and AZ which was intended to be for all age groups but kept getting pushed on to older and older folks because of the risk of blood clots.They keep flip-flopping on the guidance but the view is if you are under 50 do not take AZ.
Now Morrison did turn down a pfizer offer for vaccines early in the piece, i explained why above when referring to domestic supply chain preference.After that, pfizer gave higher priority to countries with more cases.This explains why still so many here and in NZ unvaccinated.
Now over in Israel, seems the PM is considering reintroducing lockdowns in September, along with the green passport ‘freedom pass’.Third injection boosters have already started there so we could see a requirement for a set % having received a third dose for an easing of those restrictions after they are brought in.A similar strategy is already underway in Sydney.
https://m.jpost.com/health-science/coronavirus-more-than-3000-cases-in-a-day-setting-record-for-new-wave-675680
Also on Monday, Prime Minister Naftali Bennett said that "about 55,000 people were vaccinated today with the third dose - which is almost twice as much as yesterday, but it is still not enough," Hebrew media reported.
The prime minister is also considering to impose new lockdowns during the holidays in September.
He continued to say that Israel is "in a competition between vaccines and epidemics, between an open country and more restrictions."
Since Friday, nearly 100,000 people aged 60 and over have been vaccinated with the additional shot.
It was previously reported that the rising number of cases may urge the Health Ministry to recommend ministers to reintroduce the Green Pass system that was utilized earlier this year.
Re : JimmiC
Vaccine passports do not equal totalitarian governments, that is stupid as hell because it's not governments putting them in, it is private business. You are begging the government to make rules to stop them. You are a terrible libertarian trying to get the government to make rules on private people and businesses
Not sure how it is where you live but here, museums are run by State government.Libraries, sports centres, swimming pools are run by local government.So to claim this is all private businesses is wrong.
Where I live it has been mandatory to scan in with a QR code to every business or workplace for 9 months now, this is a state government law.I expect this QR scan in app to be replaced with the myGov vaccine passport app.As i mentioned before all Australia vaccination data is held by the Governments Immunisation database.This is linked into your myGov profile and app which becomes your covid vaccine certification.Everything is ready to go here, enabled and encouraged by the Government.
And finally, none of this touches on the point i actually made which is unless you take your regular boosters (or whatever else) your passport will be switched off and you will be unable to enter businesses, workplaces etc.That is the totalitarian part.You comply or your life is unlivable.Not sure what is hard to grasp here.
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On August 03 2021 11:58 Magic Powers wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2021 11:05 evilfatsh1t wrote:
how are nz's restrictions any different to say sydneys when we had no transmission? hence the same level of restrictions as australia statement. i expected posters to exercise some common sense when reading and discern the fact that in the current situation with hundreds of cases in one country and zero in the other, restrictions are not going to be identical. Australia has been under lockdown, so your claim of NZ restrictions being as bad as Australia's is strictly a falsehood and there's no "common sense" interpretation of your words that would make it seem otherwise. Show nested quote +traffic is the same level as pre pandemic? not sure where you got this idea from From my colleague who lives in NZ and has been enjoying nice skiing activities the whole day. I trust his word (he even sent pictures), and I see no reason to trust you. You didn't refer to their borders. People don't live inside your head, so if you think it's obvious that you were talking about the border situation, then there's work to be done on your communication skills. You're instead talking of "common sense". Get a grip, this is entirely on you. Do you want to have a chat with my colleague about that? Show nested quote +also again about "normal life". its not normal to have no access to any other country for going on 2 years. That's not in the hands of NZ, the pandemic is global. They're trying to fight their epidemic and they've been doing a great job. The New Zealanders have been enjoying way more liberties than most other countries in the world. Quite similar to Taiwan. Show nested quote +what does not having an outbreak for a while have anything to do with the speed in which jacinda ardern enforces lockdowns on her cities? Her policies were highly effective. No lockdowns for over a year. No infections. Barely any restrictions on people's liberties. Compared to most other countries, NZ has done a great job at handling this pandemic. Show nested quote +my point is shes as trigger happy as our worst offenders in australia (vic and qld premiers). Her alleged "trigger happiness" has made New Zealand one of the most free countries during this pandemic. I believe you're frantically trying to cover up your lies. I was initially going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you were simply parotting lies someone else told you. Since you're doubling down on your claims, I firmly believe you made up those lies yourself. You're therefore causing disruption in the discourse surrounding the pandemic, and I consider that unacceptable. Lives and liberties are at stake, the truth is therefore paramount, and you're putting your ego above that. Show nested quote +sick of having to explain the situation to someone who struggles with reading comprehension let alone develop any sort of perspective outside his own experiences. You can leave this thread anytime you like. I don't mind not having to address lies.
you do realise "traffic" isnt a reference to foot or car traffic? when its obvious that our (aus/nz) only source of covid transmissions comes from international flights i really did not think i had to explain this. like...this is elementary level stuff.
if you have correctly identified that traffic is a reference to air traffic, then im just going to agree to disagree on your "facts". if border closures isnt a suitable explanation for why air traffic to nz is minimal then i dont know what else i could say to you. ive also been referring to border closures in all my latest posts. i havent gone and counted but im pretty sure the words "border closure" are literally written in most of my recent posts. but if you still didnt catch that i was referring to border closures then what more can i say. other people seemed to have grasped this perfectly fine, so make of that what you will.
"That's not in the hands of NZ, the pandemic is global. They're trying to fight their epidemic and they've been doing a great job. The New Zealanders have been enjoying way more liberties than most other countries in the world. Quite similar to Taiwan."
umm...it literally is in the hands of NZ. other countries arent forcing them to stay closed. thats a decision made by their own government, much like how australias border restrictions were implemented by our own government. many countries have combated the pandemic without disconnecting the entire country from the remaining world. my whole argument is that ongoing border closures are a disproportionate response to the risk at large. please keep up
you also seem to have a distorted knowledge of new zealand's covid timeline. theyve had outbreaks within the last year. they had level 3 restrictions as far back as march 2021, not even close to being more than a year ago like you claim.
i dont know why you have a huge hard on for nz. maybe you dont own a passport in real life or have a fear of flying and so could not give any fucks whether border restrictions are a thing? maybe you have a personal opinion that "all must be sacrificed for lives?" and countries like australia or nz are a wet dream to you? honestly have no idea. but instead of trying to hear stories from your friend about what life is like for aussies and new zealanders and paint people as liars from your couch in a country that has the luxury of free travel and a much more successful vaccination rollout, maybe you should humble up a bit. ill also leave this thread when i please, but i wont converse with you on this matter anymore. you are a literal waste of time.
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On August 03 2021 13:19 evilfatsh1t wrote:
you do realise "traffic" isnt a reference to foot or car traffic?
Firstly, no, because I don't live inside your head. Secondly, you're wrong. I'm not a native English speaker, but I know for a fact that "traffic" without specified context refers to a few things, including the following:
>The passage of people or vehicles along routes of transportation.
>Vehicles or pedestrians in transit.
To conclude: please don't offend my intelligence. I'm not an idiot. You didn't specify the context of traffic along the border, or international traffic, or travel by plane, or anything of that sort. The comment chain leading up to your claims didn't specify any of that either, in fact much if not most of the conversation was about national affairs.
This "miscommunication" is 100% on you and you need to stop trying to mitigate damage. Just drop it or admit that you messed up. I will not respond to this excuse of yours again.
when its obvious that our (aus/nz) only source of covid transmissions comes from international flights i really did not think i had to explain this. like...this is elementary level stuff.
People don't live inside your head. Nothing about that is elementary. It's a matter of communicating your thoughts properly.
ive also been referring to border closures in all my latest posts. i havent gone and counted but im pretty sure the words "border closure" are literally written in most of my recent posts.
Not in the one that contains up to three false claims that I responded to. And none of the posts leading up to that post refer to border closures either. No one here is a time traveller. Your excuse makes no sense.
"That's not in the hands of NZ, the pandemic is global. They're trying to fight their epidemic and they've been doing a great job. The New Zealanders have been enjoying way more liberties than most other countries in the world. Quite similar to Taiwan."
umm...it literally is in the hands of NZ. other countries arent forcing them to stay closed. thats a decision made by their own government, much like how australias border restrictions were implemented by our own government. many countries have combated the pandemic without disconnecting the entire country from the remaining world. my whole argument is that ongoing border closures are a disproportionate response to the risk at large. please keep up
I will mention one last time that NZ has been having a lot more liberties without a single recorded local infection. Clearly NZ's success rate is far greater than that of most other countries. I have absolutely no idea how you can twist these facts into making them look just as bad as other countries. Again, you're not making sense.
you also seem to have a distorted knowledge of new zealand's covid timeline. theyve had outbreaks within the last year. they had level 3 restrictions as far back as march 2021, not even close to being more than a year ago like you claim.
Lets fact check this.
Alert level 3 was instated three times over the past year, and never once outside of Auckland (which is a port city). The rest of NZ has been at level 1 or 2 since May 13th, 2020.
Since March 2021, all of NZ has been avoiding alert level 3 and staying at level 1. That's roughly 5 months of level 1 for the whole of NZ.
Does this seem excessive to you? Does it even seem comparably bad as in other countries?
I can tell you about it from my perspective as an Austrian. We've had many businesses closed for weeks and even months at a time, across most if not all of the country. Currently most businesses and venues are open, but much of it at limited capacity and all forms of public gathering like eating out or going to the cinemas (not shopping or public transport) require proof of vaccination, negative test or cured infection. Meanwhile infections are going back up.
I'll take NZ's approach over that all day every day, not even a second thought.
i dont know why you have a huge hard on for nz. maybe you dont own a passport in real life or have a fear of flying and so could not give any fucks whether border restrictions are a thing? maybe you have a personal opinion that "all must be sacrificed for lives?" and countries like australia or nz are a wet dream to you? honestly have no idea. but instead of trying to hear stories from your friend about what life is like for aussies and new zealanders and paint people as liars from your couch in a country that has the luxury of free travel and a much more successful vaccination rollout, maybe you should humble up a bit. ill also leave this thread when i please, but i wont converse with you on this matter anymore. you are a literal waste of time.
I don't need to address any of that nonsense. If anyone on this website is a stronger supporter of individual liberty than I am, I have yet to see them.
If you need to discredit me as a person to feel better about yourself, you do you.
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With Israel rolling out the third jab as i mentioned a few posts ago it is unsurprising to see a large reduction in the percentage of Israeli's willing to get the third jab as opposed to the first two.A reduction in trust in government and the media shown in the survey and a reduction in fear over COVID also isn't that surprising but it's quite shocking to see how few want to vaccinate their kids aged 5-11 with the first two shots with the main concern being possible long term side effects.
https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/only-half-of-israelis-want-a-third-covid-19-vaccine-shot-survey-675419
Only half of Israelis want a third COVID-19 vaccine shot - survey
The survey also asked whether or not parents would give their younger children between the ages of five and 11 a vaccination if it became available and the majority (54%) said they would not. Only 23% said they would vaccinate, while 23% said they were wavering.
When broken down between parents who vaccinated themselves versus those who didn’t, no parents who did not receive the vaccine said they would vaccinate their children, while only 27% of those vaccinated said they would.
There are several reasons why there could be a decline in willingness to get the jab, according to the survey.
When it comes to children, parents are most concerned that health officials still do not know the long-term impact of the vaccine.
To date, only 35% of people under the age of 20 are fully vaccinated versus 90% of those over the age of 60.
However, the survey also found that as the Delta variant spreads across the country, including reinfecting a high percentage of vaccinated individuals, more people believe that the vaccine does not work.
Only 59% of respondents said the vaccine protects against infection, 69% said it prevents the spread of the virus and 82% said it protects against developing symptoms.
Around 53% of all new cases are people who were fully vaccinated, according to the Health Ministry.
IN ADDITION, the public believes that they are not receiving accurate information about the pandemic or the vaccines, the survey found. Some 61% of respondents felt there was a deficit of believable information about the coronavirus and a full 20% said that the pandemic is part of a governmental conspiracy.
A third of respondents also claimed that the media is exaggerating the risks of the virus.
Finally, very few people have a strong fear of contracting coronavirus anymore.
When asked to rate their fear on a scale of zero to 100, with 100 being “very scared,” the average response was 44. Arabs and haredim (ultra-Orthodox Jews) ranked their fear the lowest at 36 and 37, respectively. The most scared were traditional Jews at 50.
“People are much more afraid of the economic impact [of the virus] than the health impact,” Grinstein-Weiss said. “The fear of being locked down is much greater than the fear of being hit with coronavirus.”
Anyway like i said before with the government bringing back the Green passport it's highly likely that a third shot will be needed to keep this 'freedom pass' active in an effort to boost the third shot vaccination rate, but with increasing numbers now realising that this is a cycle could potentially never end we find ourselves in an interesting situation.
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The fact that so many people keep bringing up 'fear of unknown long term side effects' from vaccines while seemingly completely ignoring the far more likely odds of long term side effects of COVID is incredibly frustrating. If only we could get over this collective stupidity and actually deal with the disease once and for all, but nah, let's keep repeating the same bullshit arguments instead and watch the virus continue to evolve instead while complaining about how this is a never-ending cycle and how evil and inept the governments are and ignoring the fact that it's those very complainers are the reason this thing is still ongoing.
If we can't even work out this Corona shit, what hope do we really have of dealing with global warming...
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One anti-vaxxer in Poland is offering fake "proofs of vaccinations" for $500. I hope noone is dumb enough to buy it, but You never know with these folks.
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Good news with the Democrat mayor of Boston ruling out vaccine passports, for now, comparing it to slavery.Says it disproportionately affects PoC and minorities.DeBlasio should take note and reverse his crazy passport policy.
https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/566367-boston-mayor-compares-vaccine-passports-to-documentation-required-during
Boston Mayor Kim Janey (D) compared the idea of requiring vaccine verification to the practice of having to show one's papers during slavery and the Jim Crow era, as well as the more recent birtherism conspiracy theory.
"There's a long history in this country of people needing to show their papers," Janey said during an interview with NewsCenter 5. "During slavery, post-slavery, as recent as you know what immigrant population has to go through here. We heard Trump with the birth certificate nonsense. Here we want to make sure that we are not doing anything that would further create a barrier for residents of Boston or disproportionally impact [Black, Indigenous or people of color] communities."
Janey was asked the question in light of New York Mayor Bill de Blasio's (D) Tuesday announcement that he would require New Yorkers to provide proof of COVID-19 vaccination to enter restaurants, gyms and other indoor facilities.
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Prior to delta being a thing, I would've agreed in part with the refusal of vaccine passports for local businesses/services because it was very much possible to control the spread of UK and other variants through the measures we had without the need for a cumbersome passport.
Right now though, unless you force people to vaccinate, we are not getting out of this mess. A vaccine is individually protective, but also confers some group benefits through herd immunity. Regionally where I live, we have 85% of eligible individuals with first dose, and ~70% with their second, and Delta is still growing at a rapid pace (doubling times under two weeks). Implementing a passport in places which check your ID anyways is easy enough (Bars, nightclubs etc) and anywhere where a membership is required (gyms) wouldn't be a stretch. Restaurants and cinemas is stupid.
I'd support a passport for air travel too. If you must be fully vaccinated by the end of September to travel by plane, you'll see a decent amount more people get vaccinated so they can travel as weather gets colder. There's been enough carrots by now, a stick is required.
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The sad truth is that death certificate data in the United States is shockingly bad even outside of large-scale pandemics, at least when it comes to things that aren't trauma or are secondary contributors to death. Whether a given "underlying medical condition" will make it onto the things varies pretty hugely and is largely up to the discretion of whoever is filling it out. Makes studying the deaths are attributable to a given chronic illness or precipitating cause a nightmare if you're using administrative data.
I mean, check out the Illinois death certificate. Not a lot of space to be clear about what led to the death.
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The more I think about it the more I think that the vaccine hesitancy in America is the result of not knowing your audience/bad marketing. Not bad marketing in a sense that they haven't explained the benefits to the country or society as a whole, rather they have not sold it to the individual republicans/conservatives. Its been plainly clear for decades that Republicans lack empathy so trying to sell the vaccine as being good for society or protecting ones family or strangers is not going to move the needle for them. These people are very sociopathic.
I think it needs to be sold hard that the odds of you dying from covid may be 1/1000 but with the vaccine its 1/1,000,000 for example. Everyone being vaccinated helps your individual business, etc.
Its sad to me that we are exporting this lack of empathy/sociopathic worldview abroad. I have family in Ireland who have bought into the bullshit. Its shocking how much they care about Trump or re-post the Trump memes when they don't even live in the US. I'm scared for our society and planet's future the longer this ideology is allowed to exist.
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On August 06 2021 11:20 Sadist wrote:
The more I think about it the more I think that the vaccine hesitancy in America is the result of not knowing your audience/bad marketing. Not bad marketing in a sense that they haven't explained the benefits to the country or society as a whole, rather they have not sold it to the individual republicans/conservatives. Its been plainly clear for decades that Republicans lack empathy so trying to sell the vaccine as being good for society or protecting ones family or strangers is not going to move the needle for them. These people are very sociopathic.
I think it needs to be sold hard that the odds of you dying from covid may be 1/1000 but with the vaccine its 1/1,000,000 for example. Everyone being vaccinated helps your individual business, etc.
Its sad to me that we are exporting this lack of empathy/sociopathic worldview abroad. I have family in Ireland who have bought into the bullshit. Its shocking how much they care about Trump or re-post the Trump memes when they don't even live in the US. I'm scared for our society and planet's future the longer this ideology is allowed to exist.
Except African Americans who voted 90% democrat are the ones least likely to be vaxxed.Which will cause big problems in the Bronx due to DeBlasios passport system.
And many of these people have valid reasons to be questioning.Many know that J&J knew for decades that Asbestos was in their baby powders and covered it up.And now they’re being asked to take a J&J vaccine? With no legal liability for J&J? The trust is gone.There are lawsuits ongoing in that case of course but it shows the blind faith put in these drug companies is misplaced.
Here’s the deal at least 20-25% in the USA will not be vaccinated under any circumstance.There are also people who took the first shots but will turn down the inevitable regular boosters.This push to vaccinate everyone has failed spectacularly.Even if it succeeded it’s likely there would be variants emerge internationally that evade the vaccine that would find it’s way into the USA and you start the Lockdowns + Restrictions + New vaccine shot cycle again.
USA does not have a strong border, nobody is testing illegal immigrants who cross the border.Any could bring in new variants that the vaccine is not effective against.Why you continue to push for impossibilities is beyond me.
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On August 06 2021 13:30 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2021 11:20 Sadist wrote:
The more I think about it the more I think that the vaccine hesitancy in America is the result of not knowing your audience/bad marketing. Not bad marketing in a sense that they haven't explained the benefits to the country or society as a whole, rather they have not sold it to the individual republicans/conservatives. Its been plainly clear for decades that Republicans lack empathy so trying to sell the vaccine as being good for society or protecting ones family or strangers is not going to move the needle for them. These people are very sociopathic.
I think it needs to be sold hard that the odds of you dying from covid may be 1/1000 but with the vaccine its 1/1,000,000 for example. Everyone being vaccinated helps your individual business, etc.
Its sad to me that we are exporting this lack of empathy/sociopathic worldview abroad. I have family in Ireland who have bought into the bullshit. Its shocking how much they care about Trump or re-post the Trump memes when they don't even live in the US. I'm scared for our society and planet's future the longer this ideology is allowed to exist.
And many of these people have valid reasons to be questioning.Many know that J&J knew for decades that Asbestos was in their baby powders and covered it up.And now they’re being asked to take a J&J vaccine? With no legal liability for J&J? The trust is gone.There are lawsuits ongoing in that case of course but it shows the blind faith put in these drug companies is misplaced.
We disagree on a lot of things, but as a chemical engineer, I have to fully endorse this perspective. I would never in a million years consider using any product made by JnJ. None of you should either. As someone in chemical manufacturing, it is hard to think of a company with a worse record than JnJ, other than oil companies. JnJ is an abomination and should be dissolved.
Pfizer and Moderna made great vaccines. Those vaccines should be fully trusted. But I fully endorse your thoughts on JnJ.
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EPT
