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Lalalaland34504 Posts
On September 17 2020 05:53 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2020 05:03 Firebolt145 wrote:
When they release the vaccine I'll probably be among first in line due to being a health professional. I won't lie, I'll probably have some nerves about it even though I'm all for vaccines. Excellent, I hope the same is true in the US. I wanna get vaccinated yesterday. Show nested quote +On September 17 2020 05:38 Firebolt145 wrote:On September 17 2020 05:36 Vindicare605 wrote:On September 17 2020 05:03 Firebolt145 wrote:
When they release the vaccine I'll probably be among first in line due to being a health professional. I won't lie, I'll probably have some nerves about it even though I'm all for vaccines. I have to ask, being a health professional and working dangerously close to the virus already, isn't even a riskier vaccine still worth it vs holding out longer? I guess a risk is still a risk. I'm deathly afraid of needles so when it's my turn I'm still going to clam up and probably pass out but I'll go and get my shot. Guarantee of a vaccine passing through my body versus only the possibility (admittedly strong) of catching it naturally. Humans don't process risk very well. Are you not assuming you've already got immunity? I'd assume if you've been working in healthcare the past however long you probably got enough exposure for immunity.
Every time I've been tested I've come back negative. I've not had antibody testing admittedly..
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On September 17 2020 06:21 Firebolt145 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2020 05:53 Mohdoo wrote:On September 17 2020 05:03 Firebolt145 wrote:
When they release the vaccine I'll probably be among first in line due to being a health professional. I won't lie, I'll probably have some nerves about it even though I'm all for vaccines. Excellent, I hope the same is true in the US. I wanna get vaccinated yesterday. On September 17 2020 05:38 Firebolt145 wrote:On September 17 2020 05:36 Vindicare605 wrote:On September 17 2020 05:03 Firebolt145 wrote:
When they release the vaccine I'll probably be among first in line due to being a health professional. I won't lie, I'll probably have some nerves about it even though I'm all for vaccines. I have to ask, being a health professional and working dangerously close to the virus already, isn't even a riskier vaccine still worth it vs holding out longer? I guess a risk is still a risk. I'm deathly afraid of needles so when it's my turn I'm still going to clam up and probably pass out but I'll go and get my shot. Guarantee of a vaccine passing through my body versus only the possibility (admittedly strong) of catching it naturally. Humans don't process risk very well. Are you not assuming you've already got immunity? I'd assume if you've been working in healthcare the past however long you probably got enough exposure for immunity. Every time I've been tested I've come back negative. I've not had antibody testing admittedly..
From what my wife says the antibody testing is dogshit anyway. Her lab is curious if they accidentally vaccinated themselves with everything we now know.
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On September 17 2020 06:59 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2020 06:16 virpi wrote:
Rushing vaccines is highly dangerous. Just imagine the backlash if a vaccine causes some long term damage. I'd rather keep wearing masks for two years than using a wonky vaccine. (I'm not an anti-vaxxer, vaccines have made modern life possible.)
@topic:
I'm a teacher in Munich, Germany. Right now, the numbers are slowly but steadily rising again. We're planning for "day x" at my school. Home schooling will be mandatory for all kids, luckily, we're using a decent technical solution (MS Teams). Having to wear masks during classes is tedious, but right now, everyone has to. Especially the younger pupils are pretty stressed out right now. My wife is teaching in Canada here and her board sent out a email about being ready to transition to online if it hits certain thresholds. This is drastically different then last time when they received a email on Friday saying school would remain open for the foreseeable future than one Sunday evening saying tomorrow schools were closed. They are also expected to do "full online" teaching instead of "emergency online" teaching which means from what I can tell that they would expect all the teachers and students to be online at a set schedule from 8:30- 3:30 (with lunch and recess breaks). Which makes me think if they pull the plug it might be for quite a while.
Online school seems to be working great aside from parents also needing to be home.
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On September 17 2020 07:54 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2020 06:59 JimmiC wrote:On September 17 2020 06:16 virpi wrote:
Rushing vaccines is highly dangerous. Just imagine the backlash if a vaccine causes some long term damage. I'd rather keep wearing masks for two years than using a wonky vaccine. (I'm not an anti-vaxxer, vaccines have made modern life possible.)
@topic:
I'm a teacher in Munich, Germany. Right now, the numbers are slowly but steadily rising again. We're planning for "day x" at my school. Home schooling will be mandatory for all kids, luckily, we're using a decent technical solution (MS Teams). Having to wear masks during classes is tedious, but right now, everyone has to. Especially the younger pupils are pretty stressed out right now. My wife is teaching in Canada here and her board sent out a email about being ready to transition to online if it hits certain thresholds. This is drastically different then last time when they received a email on Friday saying school would remain open for the foreseeable future than one Sunday evening saying tomorrow schools were closed. They are also expected to do "full online" teaching instead of "emergency online" teaching which means from what I can tell that they would expect all the teachers and students to be online at a set schedule from 8:30- 3:30 (with lunch and recess breaks). Which makes me think if they pull the plug it might be for quite a while. Online school seems to be working great aside from parents also needing to be home.
Aside from:
1. Parents can't go to work since they need to watch the kids,
2. Learning capability is going to be significantly reduced for even the most diligent students relative to in-person, and
3. The problems in (2) are going to be significantly exacerbated for either younger, or less diligent, students,
yes, online schooling is going well.
It's painful to have to do online schooling; that's not something to be sugar-coated. Necessary, perhaps, but not at all pleasant or viable in the long-term.
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Online schooling is pretty effective for self-driven people that have been set up to succeed and that are old enough to deal with it. It must be absolutely terrible for children.
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On September 17 2020 07:59 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2020 07:54 Mohdoo wrote:On September 17 2020 06:59 JimmiC wrote:On September 17 2020 06:16 virpi wrote:
Rushing vaccines is highly dangerous. Just imagine the backlash if a vaccine causes some long term damage. I'd rather keep wearing masks for two years than using a wonky vaccine. (I'm not an anti-vaxxer, vaccines have made modern life possible.)
@topic:
I'm a teacher in Munich, Germany. Right now, the numbers are slowly but steadily rising again. We're planning for "day x" at my school. Home schooling will be mandatory for all kids, luckily, we're using a decent technical solution (MS Teams). Having to wear masks during classes is tedious, but right now, everyone has to. Especially the younger pupils are pretty stressed out right now. My wife is teaching in Canada here and her board sent out a email about being ready to transition to online if it hits certain thresholds. This is drastically different then last time when they received a email on Friday saying school would remain open for the foreseeable future than one Sunday evening saying tomorrow schools were closed. They are also expected to do "full online" teaching instead of "emergency online" teaching which means from what I can tell that they would expect all the teachers and students to be online at a set schedule from 8:30- 3:30 (with lunch and recess breaks). Which makes me think if they pull the plug it might be for quite a while. Online school seems to be working great aside from parents also needing to be home. Aside from: 1. Parents can't go to work since they need to watch the kids, 2. Learning capability is going to be significantly reduced for even the most diligent students relative to in-person, and 3. The problems in (2) are going to be significantly exacerbated for either younger, or less diligent, students, yes, online schooling is going well. It's painful to have to do online schooling; that's not something to be sugar-coated. Necessary, perhaps, but not at all pleasant or viable in the long-term.
Yeah, online learning is good enough for the middle class and terrible for everyone below that. I honestly think we're just gonna end up with a lot of summer school. Kids can catch up. If the US education system focused only on actually improving the lives of children, probably 40% of the US education system could be eliminated. We teach kids SO much garbage.
My ideal scenario is that this forces the US school system to overhaul and only help children. No more cursive. No more bullshit. Math, science, art, literature, nothing more.
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On September 17 2020 09:37 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2020 07:59 LegalLord wrote:On September 17 2020 07:54 Mohdoo wrote:On September 17 2020 06:59 JimmiC wrote:On September 17 2020 06:16 virpi wrote:
Rushing vaccines is highly dangerous. Just imagine the backlash if a vaccine causes some long term damage. I'd rather keep wearing masks for two years than using a wonky vaccine. (I'm not an anti-vaxxer, vaccines have made modern life possible.)
@topic:
I'm a teacher in Munich, Germany. Right now, the numbers are slowly but steadily rising again. We're planning for "day x" at my school. Home schooling will be mandatory for all kids, luckily, we're using a decent technical solution (MS Teams). Having to wear masks during classes is tedious, but right now, everyone has to. Especially the younger pupils are pretty stressed out right now. My wife is teaching in Canada here and her board sent out a email about being ready to transition to online if it hits certain thresholds. This is drastically different then last time when they received a email on Friday saying school would remain open for the foreseeable future than one Sunday evening saying tomorrow schools were closed. They are also expected to do "full online" teaching instead of "emergency online" teaching which means from what I can tell that they would expect all the teachers and students to be online at a set schedule from 8:30- 3:30 (with lunch and recess breaks). Which makes me think if they pull the plug it might be for quite a while. Online school seems to be working great aside from parents also needing to be home. Aside from: 1. Parents can't go to work since they need to watch the kids, 2. Learning capability is going to be significantly reduced for even the most diligent students relative to in-person, and 3. The problems in (2) are going to be significantly exacerbated for either younger, or less diligent, students, yes, online schooling is going well. It's painful to have to do online schooling; that's not something to be sugar-coated. Necessary, perhaps, but not at all pleasant or viable in the long-term. Yeah, online learning is good enough for the middle class and terrible for everyone below that. I honestly think we're just gonna end up with a lot of summer school. Kids can catch up. If the US education system focused only on actually improving the lives of children, probably 40% of the US education system could be eliminated. We teach kids SO much garbage. My ideal scenario is that this forces the US school system to overhaul and only help children. No more cursive. No more bullshit. Math, science, art, literature, nothing more.
Physical Education is more useful than any of those if done well. Obesity is combated here if the class is run and arranged well.
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On September 17 2020 02:25 Gorsameth wrote:
Expect Trump to push that a vaccine is done in November to use as an election boost, regardless of whether it is ready or not.
No,the 2nd wave is here now. In europe as well and very little is beeing done to stop it. They are just going to let it happen again similar to march.
From here on it will get worse quickly and by the time the elections are there it will be completely out of control in the usa (and europe as well).
The elections will be very chaotic,a huge mess you can already see it coming. Totall chaos,even trump wont know how to spin it anymore. The outlook for the coming months is very bad imo.
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I just kinda assumed Europe was only kind of a disaster, but apparently France and Spain are going nuts. What is going on over there? Did they ease restrictions or something?
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A significant portion of people ages 20-40 have given up on covid restrictions and are socializing as normal, regardless of local restrictions. 6 months afterwards, the memory of what happened has faded, and other stuff is more important
It's happening in a lot of other places too, not just Europe.
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On September 21 2020 11:06 Lmui wrote:
A significant portion of people ages 20-40 have given up on covid restrictions and are socializing as normal, regardless of local restrictions. 6 months afterwards, the memory of what happened has faded, and other stuff is more important
It's happening in a lot of other places too, not just Europe.
Yeah they've been having huge house parties near where I live on the weekends. Luckily our case numbers are low here but I fully believe you about young people socializing as normal.
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Though i havent been to any huge houseparties i admit i kinda relaxed my attitude, Everyone in Poland did and now we have huge spike (we breached 1000 new cases a day, somthing that never happened before). That combined with autumn coming and people spending more time indoors will lead to serious problems. Thankfully weather is still ok but once it gets cold i forsee huge problems.
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On September 21 2020 11:06 Lmui wrote:
A significant portion of people ages 20-40 have given up on covid restrictions and are socializing as normal, regardless of local restrictions. 6 months afterwards, the memory of what happened has faded, and other stuff is more important
It's happening in a lot of other places too, not just Europe.
In Spain it's due to two factors, mentioned a few times in this thread already. We have seen a huge uptick in cases, up to the levels we had in March (when we went into full lockdown). However, severe hospitalizations and deaths are way lower. While this is mostly a hypothesis, as there is no real way to prove that it's what's going on, the most cited reason for this is:
- More testing. In March basically nobody got tested until they got admitted to hospitals with severe covid-like conditions. Now they are testing anybody with a credible reason to have been in contact with a positive Covid case, AND some localized massive tests where anybody who wants to can go and get tested (for free).
- Age of patients. In March it ripped through the population with nobody really taking any precautions. Now the older and more vulnerable population are far more cautious, whereas the youth has (apparently) completely had it with all restrictions and controls.
Between the two, the average age of new Covid patients has dropped way down, and while there are people with severe complications at all ages, and the long-term effects have not yet been properly mapped out yet, the disease is far more manageable if the average age of affected people is under 29 (now), rather than 54 (March).
I also have some anecdotal evidence about the total laissez-faire attitude of teenagers. My wife's nephew (17) was at a party with his friends. One of them got alerted that his sister was tested positive, so both he and everybody at the party had to go and get tested. The nephew didn't want to go, saying he felt fine and it was 2 degrees removed in any case. His mother dragged him to the hospital, and he tested positive. He was therefore quarantined in his room by his mother, but if she hadn't locked him inside he would have gone out and hung out with his friends as usual, as he "felt fine".
His mother was extra screwed, as she could not go to work for an extra 14 days after her son's quarantine ended, as she might have contracted Covid while taking care of him. Because she works in an old-age residence, they had stricter measures, so when her son was allowed out and about again, she was still stuck at home. Nobody else in the family tested positive at any point, and the friend he supposedly got it from also tested negative, so it may have been a false positive from the test, but the whole point of containment is to err on the side of caution, and nobody is doing that at all. It's mostly just business as usual now.
With schools starting (presential), I suspect the spread is just going to continue ramping up. But as long as it doesn't overload the hospitals like it did in March and April, it seems like this is approximately the new normal.
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On September 21 2020 10:53 Mohdoo wrote:
I just kinda assumed Europe was only kind of a disaster, but apparently France and Spain are going nuts. What is going on over there? Did they ease restrictions or something?
I think it is a pretty predictable result of politicians selling the lockdown into track and trace strategy as a means of eradicating the disease once and for all. The message was that everything should shut down for a short period of time and then everything will go back to normal. Now that the disease is back and that strategy has been exposed as false people don't listen to the authorities anymore. This is why I have always thought that it would be better to find a realistic long term strategy using moderate measures rather than aggressively enforcing stuff like mandatory mask usage when the gains are very debatable.
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On September 21 2020 20:41 Elroi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2020 10:53 Mohdoo wrote:
I just kinda assumed Europe was only kind of a disaster, but apparently France and Spain are going nuts. What is going on over there? Did they ease restrictions or something? I think it is a pretty predictable result of politicians selling the lockdown into track and trace strategy as a means of eradicating the disease once and for all. The message was that everything should shut down for a short period of time and then everything will go back to normal. Now that the disease is back and that strategy has been exposed as false people don't listen to the authorities anymore. This is why I have always thought that it would be better to find a realistic long term strategy using moderate measures rather than aggressively enforcing stuff like mandatory mask usage when the gains are very debatable. Who said everything would go back to normal? Because over here atleast the message was that there would be no back to normal until a vaccine was available.
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On September 21 2020 20:41 Elroi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2020 10:53 Mohdoo wrote:
I just kinda assumed Europe was only kind of a disaster, but apparently France and Spain are going nuts. What is going on over there? Did they ease restrictions or something? I think it is a pretty predictable result of politicians selling the lockdown into track and trace strategy as a means of eradicating the disease once and for all. The message was that everything should shut down for a short period of time and then everything will go back to normal. Now that the disease is back and that strategy has been exposed as false people don't listen to the authorities anymore. This is why I have always thought that it would be better to find a realistic long term strategy using moderate measures rather than aggressively enforcing stuff like mandatory mask usage when the gains are very debatable.
I wonder what "moderate measures" you are suggesting, when even mask usage falls on the "too much" side for you.
Thoughts and prayers?
Also I wonder where you have overheard that lockdown into track and trace would be considered a means of eradicating the disease. Sounds like straight out of fantasy land. Except for NZ I'm not aware of any country having claimed to aim at eradicating the thing. And e.g. in Germany the communication was very clear from the very beginning that there will be restrictions at least until mid '21.
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At the very least, very few politicians spoke about what would happen once the lockdown was over. Lots of people asked what would happen in case of a post-summer second wave and no one seemed interested in answering. That was a future problem back then, it isn't anymore. The idea of a lockdown into another lockdown wasn't peddled.
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On September 21 2020 21:16 Longshank wrote:
At the very least, very few politicians spoke about what would happen once the lockdown was over. Lots of people asked what would happen in case of a post-summer second wave and no one seemed interested in answering. That was a future problem back then, it isn't anymore. The idea of a lockdown into another lockdown wasn't peddled.
Right, because lockdown isn't and has never been a real plan. We remain in a planless world because politicians only have two viable options which they can't announce either to the public and survive: 1) Lockdowns forever; 2) Sorry but Grandma might die.
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EPT
