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Added a disclaimer on page 662. Many need to post better. |
On August 01 2020 08:24 JimmiC wrote:
Well it was originally thought it was transmitted on surfaces. If you remember we had a get rid of handshaking thread with bowing where heads touch (shout out to whoever called it the high head) and now we know its air transmission. There was also early ventilation then ventilation was bad and now its good but too early.
No... that was actually never really suggested by studies. This was just what the media made out of it.
The original study showed, that some elements of the virus can survive on surfaces for up to 3 days. Nothing more.
So if in a sterile laboratory you take a very thick layer of virus-infected fluids, and put it on top of a metal plate, then even after 3 days you may find a surviving corona cell.
They were never suggesting that it would be possible to get infected from those surfaces or that those observations would hold outside laboratory conditions. And pretty much any more serious news source actually also mentioned that an infection seemed near impossible, unless the guy before you sneezed right into his hand, touched the metal bar, and you touched it 30 seconds later and then scratched your nose...
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Northern Ireland26085 Posts
The problem with any confusion on the science end of things is down to a combination of bad media dissemination (no doubt some chasing those clicks) and a general ignorance amongst the populace as to how scientific research actually functions.
It’s a bit maddening. The reality is it was a new virus strain whose pathology had to be unravelled, how it spread and how it affected humans.
If an alien life form arrived on Earth and we got some initial info wrong, people wouldn’t be sneering and going ‘ah those idiot scientists didn’t know everything about the alien, I don’t trust them moving forward’, but with a new virus you see that attitude.
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It’s painful how misinformed some people are about how vaccines work. I’m not anti-vax but I am gonna be super concerned about a FDA rushed vaccine created by privatized pharmaceutical companies competing to be the first ones to distribute one.
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Doesnt really matter if you're anti vax, provax or in between. The average Joe is way back in line for a vaccine. You're well behind any healthcare worker and seniors who'll cover enough of a demographic to prove the vaccines efficacy.
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On August 02 2020 09:17 Lmui wrote:
Doesnt really matter if you're anti vax, provax or in between. The average Joe is way back in line for a vaccine. You're well behind any healthcare worker and seniors who'll cover enough of a demographic to prove the vaccines efficacy.
You might say that, but because so many people are obviously emotionally invested in a vaccine as a miracle that will save us from C19, and that those people are very influential in the media and the likely next governing coalition of the US, they might rush the rollout.
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Northern Ireland26085 Posts
On August 02 2020 09:17 Lmui wrote:
Doesnt really matter if you're anti vax, provax or in between. The average Joe is way back in line for a vaccine. You're well behind any healthcare worker and seniors who'll cover enough of a demographic to prove the vaccines efficacy.
I look forward to various shitstorms in this domain if there’s not sufficient supply to go around.
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I am perfectly fine waiting in line.
I am a lot more scared about a rushed-out vaccine turning out to be a major problem. Usually getting vaccines to the market requires a lot of different trials, and for good reason. I fear that in this situation, too many corners will be cut to "save the economy", and we end up with a vaccine that may actually be dangerous. And then we have to deal with anti-vaxxers forever after, adding even more negative effects to the bad effects of the rushed vaccine.
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On August 02 2020 20:53 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2020 09:17 Lmui wrote:
Doesnt really matter if you're anti vax, provax or in between. The average Joe is way back in line for a vaccine. You're well behind any healthcare worker and seniors who'll cover enough of a demographic to prove the vaccines efficacy. I look forward to various shitstorms in this domain if there’s not sufficient supply to go around. How can there be enough supply to go around at the start? You can't just go from 0 to 'enough for 7 billion people'
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According to NPR companies are making the vaccine in bulk while they're going through trials, so that if it gets approved they'll have a stockpile to utilize immediately
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Northern Ireland26085 Posts
On August 02 2020 21:00 Simberto wrote:
I am perfectly fine waiting in line.
I am a lot more scared about a rushed-out vaccine turning out to be a major problem. Usually getting vaccines to the market requires a lot of different trials, and for good reason. I fear that in this situation, too many corners will be cut to "save the economy", and we end up with a vaccine that may actually be dangerous. And then we have to deal with anti-vaxxers forever after, adding even more negative effects to the bad effects of the rushed vaccine.
Plenty of people won’t be, myself included depending how it all goes though!
Agreed on the second part. Although if you’d told me 10 years ago that the rise of anti-vax people to being a significant portion of the population I’d have laughed at you.
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So in all likelihood we will have many different vaccines distributed around the world, right? That'll be interesting.
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On August 03 2020 01:35 Mohdoo wrote:
So in all likelihood we will have many different vaccines distributed around the world, right? That'll be interesting.
If there's multiple that work, yeah probably. If we find out down the road that one vaccine is 6 months ahead of everyone else, that one will spread far and wide while the rest miss out. I've heard vaccine development under these conditions described as a lottery - a lot of sensible approaches to finding it, but the winner is the one that gets luckiest.
Until that happens, over the coming months we'll see some companies pinky promising that their remdesivir antiviral drug works, even as the results say that that's dubious.
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Well, Russia has already announced they will deploy their vaccine in autumn this year.
That will be a great field test.
Or in software development, they call this "customer as QA" approach...
In general, I'm afraid, that not only "save the economy" but also pure national pride about "being the first to have it" will lead to rushed out vaccines. And I have no doubt about a certain orange clown also attempting to get it deployed before November in the US...
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United States43262 Posts
The overlap between Trump’s most rabid fanbase who will still support him after all the shit so far and supporters of mandatory trial vaccines rolled out on the population (and particularly the elderly) is likely to be low. The people who would support that kind of vaccine program aren’t voting for him anyway. It’s not politically sound to do. Much more sound would be to declare the vaccine a success and coronavirus solved right before the election, whether or not anyone has actually been vaccinated. With Fox News acting as state media and whitehouse control over the info on cases/deaths he can have a victory lap without a victory.
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On August 03 2020 02:02 KwarK wrote:
The overlap between Trump’s most rabid fanbase who will still support him after all the shit so far and supporters of mandatory trial vaccines rolled out on the population (and particularly the elderly) is likely to be low. The people who would support that kind of vaccine program aren’t voting for him anyway. It’s not politically sound to do. Much more sound would be to declare the vaccine a success and coronavirus solved right before the election, whether or not anyone has actually been vaccinated. With Fox News acting as state media and whitehouse control over the info on cases/deaths he can have a victory lap without a victory.
This is just bizarre conspiratorial thinking. Not least because it ascribes some mystical power to Fox News which is like 2% of the US news economy.
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I don't even understand what he is saying.
Kwark are you advocating for compulsory vaccination for covid? Or just saying Trump's base would be against it ? (I would agree with that)
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On August 03 2020 05:43 GoTuNk! wrote:
I don't even understand what he is saying.
Kwark are you advocating for compulsory vaccination for covid? Or just saying Trump's base would be against it ? (I would agree with that) mahrgell mentioned Russia is planning to roll out a vaccine soon, using their people as test subjects. And since Russia is effectively a totalitarian state they can vaccinate people against their will as part of a test.
And that Trump might want to beat Russia to deployment for his ego, no matter how unsafe it is.
Kwark then responds there is very little overlap between the people who support Trump and the people who would be ok with the Government forcing potentially unsafe vaccines on them.
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On August 03 2020 05:13 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2020 02:02 KwarK wrote:
The overlap between Trump’s most rabid fanbase who will still support him after all the shit so far and supporters of mandatory trial vaccines rolled out on the population (and particularly the elderly) is likely to be low. The people who would support that kind of vaccine program aren’t voting for him anyway. It’s not politically sound to do. Much more sound would be to declare the vaccine a success and coronavirus solved right before the election, whether or not anyone has actually been vaccinated. With Fox News acting as state media and whitehouse control over the info on cases/deaths he can have a victory lap without a victory. This is just bizarre conspiratorial thinking. Not least because it ascribes some mystical power to Fox News which is like 2% of the US news economy. What % of the population does not believe Covid is real or a threat?
Because that is Fox's market share
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