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On July 31 2020 21:09 Uldridge wrote: I don't agree. Some teachers have expressed that they feel like tele-educating is better because they can record their classes, then every student can follow the class at their own pace and then students can contact the teacher seperately for questions. This could be a didactic revolution actually. Simply provide the kids with the infrastructure to follow the lessons (hardware/software) and let them take responsibility in following the course material. This has multiple benefits: they learn responsibility earlier, everyone can follow the class at their own pace, you get a more personalized education (which is literally what is needed). Recording your class means it isn't slowed down by having people interrupting you or the hassle of them settling before actual class starts. You do give up some socialization of children and teenagers, but those can be fixed with different types of social activities imo.
I wonder what's more expensive: maintaining an entire school building and the staff, or providing every child with the necessary resources, because if the latter is actually cheaper, its just another argument pro tele-education. It all depends on age. While there might be advantages for older kids, for kids aged 5-7 a big part of school is "socialization" and it is very hard to get 1 six year old to do his work without another 20 doing the same. The social norming and learning how to get along with people are pretty important parts of early ed.
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It looks like what most of us suspected would happen when it was first announced happened. Forcing reporting through the HHS instead of to the CDC has caused serious reliability problems with the data.
Over the last two weeks, the number of people hospitalized with COVID-19 in the United States has approached previous peak numbers from the spring outbreaks concentrated in the Northeast. At the same time, changes in federal reporting methods have placed a significant strain on hospitals throughout the country and, at least temporarily, made the data hospitals report to states incomplete and unreliable.
Many hospitals are now spending hours of admin time to get the data to the HHS because the previous systems do not integrate cleanly.
https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/07/covid-19-hospital-data-is-a-hot-mess-after-feds-take-control/ https://covidtracking.com/blog/cases-declining-deaths-rising-hospital-data-remains-a-question-mark
Also, Kushner apparently sank a federal response to the coronavirus
... The plan called for the federal government to coordinate distribution of test kits, so they could be surged to heavily affected areas, and oversee a national contact-tracing infrastructure. It also proposed lifting contract restrictions on where doctors and hospitals send tests, allowing any laboratory with capacity to test any sample. It proposed a massive scale-up of antibody testing to facilitate a return to work. It called for mandating that all COVID-19 test results from any kind of testing, taken anywhere, be reported to a national repository as well as to state and local health departments. ... Worried about the stock market and his reelection prospects, Trump also feared that more testing would only lead to higher case counts and more bad publicity. Meanwhile, Dr. Deborah Birx, the White House’s coronavirus response coordinator, was reportedly sharing models with senior staff that optimistically—and erroneously, it would turn out—predicted the virus would soon fade away.
Against that background, the prospect of launching a large-scale national plan was losing favor, said one public health expert in frequent contact with the White House’s official coronavirus task force.
Most troubling of all, perhaps, was a sentiment the expert said a member of Kushner’s team expressed: that because the virus had hit blue states hardest, a national plan was unnecessary and would not make sense politically. “The political folks believed that because it was going to be relegated to Democratic states, that they could blame those governors, and that would be an effective political strategy,” said the expert.
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/07/how-jared-kushners-secret-testing-plan-went-poof-into-thin-air
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Netherlands45349 Posts
I thought an issue with not reopening schools in America is that a lot of kids rely on school lunch as to not starve.
As for tele-learning, I do and have wondered at points this time why I paid so much (oke its all relative, Dutch college education is cheap af) for college when I could possible access world class education online via Harvard. I have done some of those CS50 things online and man they are so much better then some of the education I got here. I mean there are plenty of reasons why'd you still want live education but man, sometimes I feel robbed compared to what I paid for.
Obviously this is different for kids, in the UK plenty of kids don't have laptops or even internet to learn with I heard.
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On August 01 2020 00:49 Kipsate wrote: I thought an issue with not reopening schools in America is that a lot of kids rely on school lunch as to not starve.
I think that's a minor issue (not because food isn't important, but because it's a much easier, quicker fix). Most districts in my area that have families who require subsidized school lunch (including my own district) are either having the parent pick up the lunch and bring it home (since they were going to be driving to the school anyway, to drop off their kid), or have outsourced a service to drop off those lunches at the residences, just like delivering a package in the mail. There are actually a bunch of different options, including having the bus drivers (who have the routes of the students' houses anyway) just drop off lunches, etc.
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Northern Ireland20689 Posts
On August 01 2020 00:49 Kipsate wrote: I thought an issue with not reopening schools in America is that a lot of kids rely on school lunch as to not starve.
As for tele-learning, I do and have wondered at points this time why I paid so much (oke its all relative, Dutch college education is cheap af) for college when I could possible access world class education online via Harvard. I have done some of those CS50 things online and man they are so much better then some of the education I got here. I mean there are plenty of reasons why'd you still want live education but man, sometimes I feel robbed compared to what I paid for.
Obviously this is different for kids, in the UK plenty of kids don't have laptops or even internet to learn with I heard. Tertiary education is overdue a massive overhaul, specifically in certification.
The resources are patently there for people to learn things, get a degree if they pay a (much smaller) fee to sit exams to get the qualifications that employers recognise.
Not really in the system’s interest to enable that pathway, which is rather frustrating. University fees have risen in direct opposition to the cheapness and accessibility of information.
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On July 31 2020 13:27 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2020 13:11 Wegandi wrote: Keep the schools closed. Government indoc centers being closed is great. Let's extend that out indefinitely. I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic with the "government indoctrination center" phrase, but I bet we could convince a few conservative, anti-mask parents that keeping schools closed is a good idea, because something something liberal educators being kept away from impressionable children.
100% serious. Government schools mold obedience, conformity, destroy individual traits and lump everyone together in an egalitarian soup of hell. There's also the fact that not much has changed since they were initially seeded in the mid 1800s. They're there to promote generation after generation of servile and docile adults.
Government schools have more in common with prisons and prison rules (with the same bullying bullshit that always accompanies that environment) than any institution that's concerned with fostering curiosity, knowledge, and epistemology. There's a reason young kids go from curious and seeking information / learning to hating the supposed Government center responsible for so-called "education".
We need informed, curious, critical thinkers with ability to discern and adapt and all evidence points to Government schools producing the exact opposite of those traits.
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On July 31 2020 21:23 pmh wrote: The problem is that not everyones home situation is suitable for tele learning. Specially kids from lower social classes often (not all,i dont want to stigmatize) dont have the stability and supportive environment at home that makes tele learning effective. Both parents might need to work full time,they dont have a student nanny from oversees that could help and what not. School is also much more then just learning whats in the books,its also social development. At schools people from all sorts of different backgrounds mix with eachoter,at least to some extend. This also helps integration and is one step towards decreasing racism and segregation. (even though i do realize how the school district system in the usa works,which to some extend is quiet segregated already).
cnn,s angle is "trump says yay we say nay" Cnn i watch quiet a bit and that really is their only angle lol.
"Social development" the kind you get in a prison-like environment. Very healthy. Have you ever been through the school system? I'm sure all the nerds, unwanteds, uncool kids, scrawny, geeks, goths, etc. loved all the social interaction. I bet they really benefited a lot.
Or....kids / teens can socialize in settings that promote cooperation, learning, areas of their interests, etc. This school as social interaction is baloney.
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On July 31 2020 22:58 Garbels wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2020 14:47 cLutZ wrote:If opening schools causes your locale to be destroyed by C19 at this point, your locale was always going to be destroyed. That is what I've been trying to convey to you. This is just another version of "socialism has never been tried". Lockdowns have been extensively tried in the US, and they didn't work. Have you spoken to any teachers - the experts This is just rich, because my aunt is an ex teacher now principal and she is among the least informed persons I know. You know who has been right and good at predicting C19 since January? Odd thinkers. Not government epidemiologists who were SUPER WRONG Jan-March and are trending super wrong June-Current, not teachers, not, anything that people call experts. Its the superpredictors of old who are generally ignored that got C19 right. They wanted border controls on Jan 15 or earlier. They were pro mask when epidemiologists were anti mask. And now, in America, they are pro-reopening, because they have recognized the truth that unless you lockdown until 2 years past vaccine (which I still haven't seen you present an alternative to under your reasoning) lockdown won't achieve the goals of lockdown.* *Unless you accept that lockdown means mass arrest of mostly minority young adult males and females. I mean, I don't mean to brag, but: https://imgur.com/a/WAdKUUW This is me in early May. Its sarcasm with a hint of truth vis-a-vis the "lockdowners", aka people who have no other plan than restrictions on movement. 2025 is plausible if you actually follow some of the reopening frameworks and no vaccine is developed. Thats odd because my imaginary superpredictors who got everyting right in the past say something else. Namely that you should get you collective heads out of your arses and recognise the invisible enemy in front of you. Bullet points: - Strong uniform messaging from leaders as high up as possible. - "Lockdown" of varying degrees depending on spread, medical capacity and preparedness. - Phisical distancing when possible and mask otherwise and indoors. Only neccesary trips. - Use the time to heavily invest in testing and tracing. - Reopen slowly when circumstances allow (probably widespread frequent testing capacity). Might seem unrealistic or unobtainable. Not everyone will be on board. But not everyone hast to be. Many will follow with the right mindset. Don't think us vs them. Its not. Its fighting a war. Do what you can to buy some time for the scientists and pressure your poiticians. Vaccines will come, treatments get better and better and tests get cheaper and faster (low sensitivity, fast, cheap and frequent ist the way to go). Opening schools schould be a bipartisan, yes. But safely so. If safety cant be insured you must not open. Many where laughing at you (USA) before corona. Most are not laughing anymore. Your are the god damn US of A. Get it together and act like it.
The thing is, what you are relying on is a few things that strike me as fanciful:
1) Lockdowns reducing viral load sufficiently to be able to implement track and trace. This has never happened in a US state. To do so in a state you need to embrace mass incarceration. I don't think anyone is willing to do that.
2) The establishment of the most competent American bureaucracy since the Apollo program. We are talking competency levels that at 100% higher than what we normally get out of federal agents, let alone state workers (the DMV is a meme for a good reason). Also, you are relying on this thing (that should have been established in April) getting established now!
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On August 01 2020 01:26 Wegandi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2020 13:27 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 31 2020 13:11 Wegandi wrote: Keep the schools closed. Government indoc centers being closed is great. Let's extend that out indefinitely. I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic with the "government indoctrination center" phrase, but I bet we could convince a few conservative, anti-mask parents that keeping schools closed is a good idea, because something something liberal educators being kept away from impressionable children. 100% serious. Government schools mold obedience, conformity, destroy individual traits and lump everyone together in an egalitarian soup of hell. There's also the fact that not much has changed since they were initially seeded in the mid 1800s. They're there to promote generation after generation of servile and docile adults. Government schools have more in common with prisons and prison rules (with the same bullying bullshit that always accompanies that environment) than any institution that's concerned with fostering curiosity, knowledge, and epistemology. There's a reason young kids go from curious and seeking information / learning to hating the supposed Government center responsible for so-called "education". We need informed, curious, critical thinkers with ability to discern and adapt and all evidence points to Government schools producing the exact opposite of those traits.
I agree with you. Those are definitely legitimate concerns, especially when schools put an emphasis on testing and conformity over curiosity, creativity, and problem solving. I think the objectives of schools need to change to better suit the needs and passions of students, although that's done by changing schools, not just closing them down. If you're merely stating that this is a bonus - a convenient byproduct of closing schools for safety reasons anyway - then I see your point. Keep in mind that switching to online/remote learning doesn't guarantee the promotion of the better ideals we would both like to see in education - in some ways, this new restriction could make it harder - but we'll certainly see more teachers required to think outside the box with how they're going to attempt to instruct all their students now. Hopefully, once coronavirus is behind us, we can start changing schools for the better.
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On August 01 2020 01:36 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2020 01:26 Wegandi wrote:On July 31 2020 13:27 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 31 2020 13:11 Wegandi wrote: Keep the schools closed. Government indoc centers being closed is great. Let's extend that out indefinitely. I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic with the "government indoctrination center" phrase, but I bet we could convince a few conservative, anti-mask parents that keeping schools closed is a good idea, because something something liberal educators being kept away from impressionable children. 100% serious. Government schools mold obedience, conformity, destroy individual traits and lump everyone together in an egalitarian soup of hell. There's also the fact that not much has changed since they were initially seeded in the mid 1800s. They're there to promote generation after generation of servile and docile adults. Government schools have more in common with prisons and prison rules (with the same bullying bullshit that always accompanies that environment) than any institution that's concerned with fostering curiosity, knowledge, and epistemology. There's a reason young kids go from curious and seeking information / learning to hating the supposed Government center responsible for so-called "education". We need informed, curious, critical thinkers with ability to discern and adapt and all evidence points to Government schools producing the exact opposite of those traits. I agree with you. Those are definitely legitimate concerns, especially when schools put an emphasis on testing and conformity over curiosity, creativity, and problem solving. I think the objectives of schools need to change to better suit the needs and passions of students, although that's done by changing schools, not just closing them down. If you're merely stating that this is a bonus - a convenient byproduct of closing schools for safety reasons anyway - then I see your point. Keep in mind that switching to online/remote learning doesn't guarantee the promotion of the better ideals we would both like to see in education - in some ways, this new restriction could make it harder - but we'll certainly see more teachers required to think outside the box with how they're going to attempt to instruct all their students now. Hopefully, once coronavirus is behind us, we can start changing schools for the better.
Monopoly institutions have no incentive to do the things you suggest, doubly so for ones representing the same institution that wants the traits I mentioned. Private schools, homeschooling, unschooling, changing the way institutions of higher learning admit students, etc. are needed. That's where you get competition, change, experimentation. Government schools is where obedience and death of learning goes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Taylor_Gatto
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On August 01 2020 01:43 Wegandi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2020 01:36 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 01 2020 01:26 Wegandi wrote:On July 31 2020 13:27 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 31 2020 13:11 Wegandi wrote: Keep the schools closed. Government indoc centers being closed is great. Let's extend that out indefinitely. I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic with the "government indoctrination center" phrase, but I bet we could convince a few conservative, anti-mask parents that keeping schools closed is a good idea, because something something liberal educators being kept away from impressionable children. 100% serious. Government schools mold obedience, conformity, destroy individual traits and lump everyone together in an egalitarian soup of hell. There's also the fact that not much has changed since they were initially seeded in the mid 1800s. They're there to promote generation after generation of servile and docile adults. Government schools have more in common with prisons and prison rules (with the same bullying bullshit that always accompanies that environment) than any institution that's concerned with fostering curiosity, knowledge, and epistemology. There's a reason young kids go from curious and seeking information / learning to hating the supposed Government center responsible for so-called "education". We need informed, curious, critical thinkers with ability to discern and adapt and all evidence points to Government schools producing the exact opposite of those traits. I agree with you. Those are definitely legitimate concerns, especially when schools put an emphasis on testing and conformity over curiosity, creativity, and problem solving. I think the objectives of schools need to change to better suit the needs and passions of students, although that's done by changing schools, not just closing them down. If you're merely stating that this is a bonus - a convenient byproduct of closing schools for safety reasons anyway - then I see your point. Keep in mind that switching to online/remote learning doesn't guarantee the promotion of the better ideals we would both like to see in education - in some ways, this new restriction could make it harder - but we'll certainly see more teachers required to think outside the box with how they're going to attempt to instruct all their students now. Hopefully, once coronavirus is behind us, we can start changing schools for the better. Monopoly institutions have no incentive to do the things you suggest, doubly so for ones representing the same institution that wants the traits I mentioned. Private schools, homeschooling, unschooling, changing the way institutions of higher learning admit students, etc. are needed. That's where you get competition, change, experimentation. Government schools is where obedience and death of learning goes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Taylor_Gatto
Just to be clear, by "government schools", you're referring to "public schools", right? I don't agree that all 7 of JTG's assertions or all 6 of JTG's school functions are accurate, but more importantly, I don't think schools are necessarily permanently forced into any of those negative attributes. There has been a large amount of growth in the education space over the past few decades, which people may or may not be aware of. And these positive changes can continue to happen, provided we have good leadership and support. A secretary of education who has no experience - let alone expertise - in the field of education obviously isn't a good start, but maybe Biden will appoint someone with credentials.
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On July 31 2020 11:39 Erasme wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2020 11:21 Emnjay808 wrote:On July 31 2020 10:52 Erasme wrote:On July 31 2020 06:39 Emnjay808 wrote: I work as a supplier for retailers such as Walmart, CVS etc.
Recently they’ve added a question during health screening (before we enter the store to do our service call) on whether or not I have already contracted covid. Merely curious if Im obligated to divulge this information or not?
Again gov is lacking severe transparency when it comes to things like these. I’ve recently become bombarded by the blood bank to donate blood, as well. Hmm, I don't think your employers are allowed to ask your health questions but not sure if that way in the US. I'd say no. Theyre not employers, just our accounts/customers. The health screening they practiced used to be run-of-the-mill "do u exhibit X symptoms" etc and a temp check at the end. Now they recently added "have u tested positive for COVID?" as the last question, and im like "NANI???". Isnt that personal medical information? Ill just lie lol. Yes, and since they're not your employers, they have even less rights to your personal informations. Out of curiosity, have you tested positive though ?
No.
Also this thread took a wild turn lol.
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Zurich15228 Posts
Yeah back to Covid please.
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On the role children they are just publishing studies with alternating results for their own amusement, I feel.
There are some topics, where the consensus kinda changed (e.g. mask effectiveness), but with children every week there is a study telling that they pose no risk at all and have no impact on the spread, and another one telling you that children are the real super spreaders....
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Well it was originally thought it was transmitted on surfaces. If you remember we had a get rid of handshaking thread with bowing where heads touch (shout out to whoever called it the high head) and now we know its air transmission. There was also early ventilation then ventilation was bad and now its good but too early.
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On August 01 2020 08:24 JimmiC wrote: Well it was originally thought it was transmitted on surfaces. If you remember we had a get rid of handshaking thread with bowing where heads touch (shout out to whoever called it the high head) and now we know its air transmission. There was also early ventilation then ventilation was bad and now its good but too early.
I thought it was confirmed to be transmittable on surfaces for a short amount of time (a few hours?), but that over surfaces isn't the primary way coronavirus travels? As in, I'm not going to pick up something that a person with coronavirus was touching a half hour ago, even if he was wearing a mask / held his breath / whatever, due to surface contact?
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On August 01 2020 08:33 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2020 08:24 JimmiC wrote: Well it was originally thought it was transmitted on surfaces. If you remember we had a get rid of handshaking thread with bowing where heads touch (shout out to whoever called it the high head) and now we know its air transmission. There was also early ventilation then ventilation was bad and now its good but too early.
I thought it was confirmed to be transmittable on surfaces for a short amount of time (a few hours?), but that over surfaces isn't the primary way coronavirus travels? As in, I'm not going to pick up something that a person with coronavirus was touching a half hour ago, even if he was wearing a mask / held his breath / whatever, due to surface contact? I'm not a hundred % sure but from I have read it depends. Outside it is less because of UV, and there are probably lots of factors.
The good thing is as long as you wash your hand before you touch your mouth, eye or nose your are safe.
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On August 01 2020 01:26 Wegandi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2020 13:27 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 31 2020 13:11 Wegandi wrote: Keep the schools closed. Government indoc centers being closed is great. Let's extend that out indefinitely. I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic with the "government indoctrination center" phrase, but I bet we could convince a few conservative, anti-mask parents that keeping schools closed is a good idea, because something something liberal educators being kept away from impressionable children. 100% serious. Government schools mold obedience, conformity, destroy individual traits and lump everyone together in an egalitarian soup of hell. There's also the fact that not much has changed since they were initially seeded in the mid 1800s. They're there to promote generation after generation of servile and docile adults. Government schools have more in common with prisons and prison rules (with the same bullying bullshit that always accompanies that environment) than any institution that's concerned with fostering curiosity, knowledge, and epistemology. There's a reason young kids go from curious and seeking information / learning to hating the supposed Government center responsible for so-called "education". We need informed, curious, critical thinkers with ability to discern and adapt and all evidence points to Government schools producing the exact opposite of those traits. Aye, people who can't read or write are objectively smarter than those who can, because they haven't been tainted by the government propaganda The fact that everyone has to go to school until 18 is the reason that everybody agrees with any decisions from the government like a sheep.
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