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This is BC's plan for reopening schools.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/students-are-heading-back-to-class-in-september-here-s-what-that-could-look-like-1.5669096
Keep in mind that we have:
1. Largely controlled covid spread - It's ticked up recently, but the cases are largely limited to less than a handful of outbreaks. Low double digits of new cases daily, almost all from known sources, and identified from contact tracing.
2. Fairly good social adherence to covid control guidelines, via social distancing and voluntary mask usage.
Some key points from the article:
A key detail of the provincial plan announced Wednesday is the division of students into cohorts or "learning groups" to allow for social interaction, while limiting the potential for widespread transmission. Students are not expected to physical distance from other people in their learning groups but will be asked to limit contact.
Elementary and middle school learning groups will have a maximum of 60 students, while those in secondary school will have up to 120. Henry explained that fewer students will be allowed in the learning groups for younger students, as it is more difficult for them to practise safe physical distancing and proper handwashing.
Students in the same learning group won't necessarily all be in the same classrooms, but they will have opportunities to socialize in shared spaces like playgrounds, hallways, cafeterias, and gymnasiums.
A number of different measures will be brought in to ensure students don't interact with others outside their learning group, like staggered recess, lunch hours and transition time between classes. For example, in elementary schools, three classrooms may take recess at the same time.
Will children be required to wear masks?
No — but mask wearing will be recommended in some situations where physical distancing cannot be maintained. Masks will also be provided by the province.
What happens if there are cases recorded in schools?
Henry said a worst case scenario would see an entire learning group self-isolating, self-monitoring for symptoms or being tested. That's one of the purposes of the learning groups — to avoid a situation where an entire student population would be sent home and to make sure contact tracing is still efficient.
Henry says there is no "magic number" that would trigger a second school shutdown, and that the province is planning ahead for multiple scenarios. She said the key to ensuring that schools can reopen safely is to maintain a low level of community spread throughout the province.
While schools can reopen at full capacity, that is only enabled by the low level of community spread we have. In the event of uncontrolled community spread, we are very likely to have to close down the schools again.
With BC's population, we're at around denmark/finland/norway levels of size ~5 mil people, but with 3591 confirmed cases - less than half the total cases of those countries.
The USA meets pretty much none of the criteria that were evaluated for safe reopening. It needs to be under control at a population level, before higher risk, large group indoor activities can be done
Edit::
In other news, I'm pretty happy Americans are now being tracked as they enter and leave Canada for the purposes of "going to Alaska"
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/alaska-loophole-us-bc-covid-19-1.5669036
Provide a loophole and goodwill, and people will abuse it like the tourists in Banff.
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Keep the schools closed. Government indoc centers being closed is great. Let's extend that out indefinitely.
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On July 31 2020 12:45 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2020 11:59 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 31 2020 11:11 cLutZ wrote:
The school problem is just another example of shutdowners having no plan and an unfortunately true theory that people can't be responsible. Schools should be largely open and we should be able to trust parents to opt out if grandma lives at home, and they should be trusted not to bring kids over to grandmas house. Shutdowners? Are we really referring to the experts in the medical community who best understand the virus as silly nicknames? No, schools should not be largely open... at least, in the United States. The "open-uppers" are the ones who need a solid plan to somehow, magically, convince the disease to stop spreading as we allow hundreds and thousands of people into the same building. Half of American adults don't even believe in wearing masks or social distancing, yet all children are supposed to be more mature than their parents? Have you ever managed a classroom of students before? Or considered how easy it is for people to transmit a disease inside of a school? There are like a thousand major league baseball players, with basically infinite money and protection, and even they're getting sick. The number of students in the ONE high school I teach at is more than double ALL the major league baseball players who are spread throughout the country. Except my students will be in one building together. Then start counting all the other middle and elementary schools in my district, and consider every other district and school in New Jersey, and then every other state in the country. #1. Shutdown vs. No is not a medical decision, it is a political decision that is informed by medicine, as well as many other things. #2. Most major pediatric groups think schools should be open in all but the hottest of hotspot areas. #3. Most other major countries have opened schools and will keep them open. #4. For most people going to and working in schools (under 50) they are more likely to die going to/from school than of corona. The key thing here is personal responsibility of parents who should know more about their situations and may opt out. #5. MLB is a success story of infection. People got infected they quarantine for 10 days and then they are back. That's perfectly fine. Infections will happen, that is anticipated, and in many ways actually good because infections then mean those students are no longer shadow risks for spreading after they fight off the virus. Again, if you don't think schools should be open, the burden is on you to tell me your path for opening schools, and if you say vaccine you might as well be saying, "prayer" because: A) We don't know when one will be proven effective; B) There might be adverse side effects such as Guillain-Barre given this will be a novel vaccine, thus we won't be able to ethically give it to people under 55 for at least a year after its officially approved; C) Even if its effective, it might be only 40% or so effective like many seasonal flu vaccines, so you are still going to be in shutdown mode even after having the vaccine and giving doses to all the at risk people. Again, you have no plan. You have things you think are plans, but ultimately when they are fisked, they are not a plan.
2. False. Pediatric groups, just like teachers, agree that students being able to socialize and learn together is ideal for growth, and if it were safe, then schools should be open. The problem there is the "if", because the majority of areas would not be safe. The condition of safety - which is not met - is very different than stating that the schools should actually be open as of right now.
3. Yup, and that's because most other first-world countries were smart, took the pandemic seriously, and are mostly done with coronavirus. That's the complete opposite of the United States, and schools staying closed (along with more cases and more deaths and a crashing economy) are all part of our punishment for electing an inept president who sat on the covid information for months and did nothing. For all the mocking that Trump has done, aimed towards other nations, it's clear that we're the shithole country right now.
4. You can't just focus on the chance of a student dying. There's so much more to this virus, from students developing long-term side effects to infected students getting their families sick. And personal parental responsibility is an awful idea, for exactly the same reason that children need to be vaccinated; one dumb parent can jeopardize thousands of people who are all trying to do the right thing (and we don't even have herd immunity to fall back on).
Have you spoken to any teachers - the experts - about how to deal with the school situation? It seems like you haven't, if you think we'd do nothing until a vaccine comes. Every teacher I know would love it if schools could safely reopen - it's literally our vocation to be with these kids - but we also understand that it's simply not possible right now. This summer needs to be spent organizing as effective an online/remote system as possible, and making sure all families have access to the necessary technology. Is it a perfect solution? Nope. Online teaching is generally subpar to in-class teaching, but non-educators need to understand that in-class teaching simply isn't possible right now. It's off the table as a viable, safe alternative, for the overwhelming majority of states. But states are going to reopen schools, cases will skyrocket, and then mayors and governors will be wearing the stupid pikachu meme face of "omg how could this happen". It's already predestined to happen, and it's because we have no president, no secretary of education, and very few competent governors. No leadership whatsoever. And it's very, very frustrating to watch, especially when the educational community has the potential to have decent online teaching options, but is simply hamstrung by politics (e.g., god forbid we actually make sure all households have internet access). Instead, we're expected to embrace - and be members of - petri dishes where there won't even be effective in-class teaching anyway. Sigh.
Pro tip: If administrators are only having Zoom chats to talk about reopening schools, because they don't want to jeopardize their own lives by meeting in person, then maybe they shouldn't be reopening their schools.
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On July 31 2020 13:11 Wegandi wrote:
Keep the schools closed. Government indoc centers being closed is great. Let's extend that out indefinitely.
I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic with the "government indoctrination center" phrase, but I bet we could convince a few conservative, anti-mask parents that keeping schools closed is a good idea, because something something liberal educators being kept away from impressionable children.
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If opening schools causes your locale to be destroyed by C19 at this point, your locale was always going to be destroyed. That is what I've been trying to convey to you. This is just another version of "socialism has never been tried". Lockdowns have been extensively tried in the US, and they didn't work.
Have you spoken to any teachers - the experts
This is just rich, because my aunt is an ex teacher now principal and she is among the least informed persons I know. You know who has been right and good at predicting C19 since January? Odd thinkers. Not government epidemiologists who were SUPER WRONG Jan-March and are trending super wrong June-Current, not teachers, not, anything that people call experts. Its the superpredictors of old who are generally ignored that got C19 right. They wanted border controls on Jan 15 or earlier. They were pro mask when epidemiologists were anti mask. And now, in America, they are pro-reopening, because they have recognized the truth that unless you lockdown until 2 years past vaccine (which I still haven't seen you present an alternative to under your reasoning) lockdown won't achieve the goals of lockdown.*
*Unless you accept that lockdown means mass arrest of mostly minority young adult males and females.
I mean, I don't mean to brag, but: https://imgur.com/a/WAdKUUW This is me in early May. Its sarcasm with a hint of truth vis-a-vis the "lockdowners", aka people who have no other plan than restrictions on movement. 2025 is plausible if you actually follow some of the reopening frameworks and no vaccine is developed.
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Closing down until 2025? Not gonna happen. That is not how the world or people work!
I don't think that any country, that had a hard lockown, will do so again. Mostly because now they have effective ways of fast tracking infection spreads and so in serious cases maybe do really local "shutdowns"; But the whole country? Nope, don't think so.
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On July 31 2020 14:47 cLutZ wrote:If opening schools causes your locale to be destroyed by C19 at this point, your locale was always going to be destroyed. That is what I've been trying to convey to you. This is just another version of "socialism has never been tried". Lockdowns have been extensively tried in the US, and they didn't work. This is just rich, because my aunt is an ex teacher now principal and she is among the least informed persons I know. You know who has been right and good at predicting C19 since January? Odd thinkers. Not government epidemiologists who were SUPER WRONG Jan-March and are trending super wrong June-Current, not teachers, not, anything that people call experts. Its the superpredictors of old who are generally ignored that got C19 right. They wanted border controls on Jan 15 or earlier. They were pro mask when epidemiologists were anti mask. And now, in America, they are pro-reopening, because they have recognized the truth that unless you lockdown until 2 years past vaccine (which I still haven't seen you present an alternative to under your reasoning) lockdown won't achieve the goals of lockdown.* *Unless you accept that lockdown means mass arrest of mostly minority young adult males and females. I mean, I don't mean to brag, but: https://imgur.com/a/WAdKUUW This is me in early May. Its sarcasm with a hint of truth vis-a-vis the "lockdowners", aka people who have no other plan than restrictions on movement. 2025 is plausible if you actually follow some of the reopening frameworks and no vaccine is developed. Lockdowns have been tried and they don't work... what?
Lockdowns didn't work in the US because the US was stupid and half-arsed their way through a mini lockdown that didn't actually do anything. Most of the rest of the world are a testament that lockdowns do work in dramatically reducing the spread of the virus.
Granted it's proving a little harder then many might have hoped to keep infections down when coming out of lockdown and countries are seeing small flare ups but the notion that lockdowns do not work and didn't achieve their goal is patently false.
Lockdowns prevented healthcare from being overwhelmed (and several countries that were late implementing them did overwhelm their healthcare), reduced viral spread and dropped cases to a level where contact tracing and containment is, somewhat viable.
And the notion that schools should simply open in the US because they are open in the rest of the world is ignoring the fact that the rest of the world first successfully suppressed the virus levels down before opening. They didn't do it while at a high point in infections, which the US is trying to do.
On July 31 2020 11:11 cLutZ wrote:
The school problem is just another example of shutdowners having no plan and an unfortunately true theory that people can't be responsible. Schools should be largely open and we should be able to trust parents to opt out if grandma lives at home, and they should be trusted not to bring kids over to grandmas house. You complain other people have no plan but your own plan is 'trust people to not be stupid'. Have you looked at what America has been doing these last few months? Significant parts of the country are still trying to pretend Covid is a hoax or 'just the flu'. And you want to trust them to not be stupid?
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On July 31 2020 14:47 cLutZ wrote:
If opening schools causes your locale to be destroyed by C19 at this point, your locale was always going to be destroyed. That is what I've been trying to convey to you. This is just another version of "socialism has never been tried". Lockdowns have been extensively tried in the US, and they didn't work.
I'm not talking about socialism; I'm talking about districts and counties and entire states taking the necessary precautions by significantly shutting things down. New York and New Jersey did that after things had gotten out of control, and they became the posterboys (posterstates?) for getting things under control. Many other states didn't take coronavirus seriously, probably because they weren't hit as hard as the early days for NY and NJ (i.e., "it's only happening over there, it can't happen over here"), and now what we're seeing is that most of the country is running rampant with the uncontrolled virus. The argument that a locale was going to be destroyed whether or not the locale was shut down (with enforced quarantine measures) is to ignore the entire scope of medical advice - that with proper protocols, such as quarantines, social distancing, and wearing masks in public, a locale can be saved. And we see that to be true in NY, NJ, maybe a few other states, and definitely most other first-world countries. That's why those other countries can reopen.
This is just rich, because my aunt is an ex teacher now principal and she is among the least informed persons I know. You know who has been right and good at predicting C19 since January? Odd thinkers. Not government epidemiologists who were SUPER WRONG Jan-March and are trending super wrong June-Current, not teachers, not, anything that people call experts. Its the superpredictors of old who are generally ignored that got C19 right. They wanted border controls on Jan 15 or earlier. They were pro mask when epidemiologists were anti mask. And now, in America, they are pro-reopening, because they have recognized the truth that unless you lockdown until 2 years past vaccine (which I still haven't seen you present an alternative to under your reasoning) lockdown won't achieve the goals of lockdown.*
Did you just quote mine me... to me? I assume it was an accident, so let me clarify:
My full question was "Have you spoken to any teachers - the experts - about how to deal with the school situation?" I'm not asserting that teachers are the best informed at "predicting C19 since January". I'm stating that the people who spend decades inside their classrooms and schools know what would and wouldn't work inside their classrooms and schools, and certainly far better than non-educators. Is that a statement you find controversial? Because you pivoted hard to things like border control, and I don't follow how that relates to me, as a teacher, knowing what's realistic and unrealistic at my school. I'd be more than happy to answer any questions you have about this. You already claimed that people who want schools to stay closed require a plan - which is true, of course - but for the record, literally every position on schools reopening requires in depth plans - full-reopen, hybrid-synchronous, hybrid-asynchronous, full-online, etc. Quite frankly, any option that involves even partial school reopenings actually needs a more in-depth plan, because of all the moving parts inside school and how to deal with families who choose to keep their children home anyway. At the very least, the full-online option objectively best accounts for the single most relevant factor in all of this: containing, rather than continuing to spread, coronavirus. That's why we're having this discussion to begin with. We can have a constructive dialogue on educational outcomes and academic infrastructure and everything else, but all that comes secondary to the health and well-being of students, faculty, and everyone's families. As soon as you start exploring hybrid or full-reopen options, you start risking the further spread of a deadly disease. And while some people believe that's a risk worth taking, they clearly aren't listening to what the people on the front-lines are saying about their schools.
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Northern Ireland25510 Posts
On July 31 2020 08:19 Jockmcplop wrote:
The UK has just come up with the worst, most stupid combination of lockdown rules i've seen yet.
We are not allowed to have people outside of our household in our houses, but we are allowed *encouraged even* to go to the pub and out for meals in restaurants.
In Leicester they have reopened the pubs on the exact same weekend that the new lockdown came into effect.
Its fucking stupid man.
What? Lacking a Sky Sports subscription I’ve been at my local a fair bit for the end of the football season. Even just eyeballing and the staff being exemplary, people start breaking social distancing when they have a few in them.
In Norn Iron I assume we’ll take a slightly different tack, things are a good bit better here, but can we not do without a few things ffs?
Have kiddo staying with me for an extended period. With the weather being shit but swimming pools being closed, indoor play areas being closed etc it’s hard to keep him busy while getting any kind of break.
After the 2 months I didn’t see him as I was working retail as a precaution.
I mean not ideal sure, it’s one summer and we’re muddling through it. Starting to get a bit frustrating that people just have to take their foreign holiday, I know some plan on flouting the quarantine period and are going back to work, the pubs seemingly have to stay open at all costs etc.
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Imo everything should be tried to open schools as safe as possible. Keeping them shut is to detremental for the development of a whole generation and very damaging long term. Opening schools (as safe as possible) should be nr 1 priority. Shut down other things if needed to compensate but schools should open if remotely possible.
Cnn keeps hammering on schools and how its not safe,implying they should not be opened. I dont get their angle tbh,opening schools is the one thing the left and right should agree on. I guess they are hammering on it only because trump wants them to open. Bipartizan BS.
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I don't agree.
Some teachers have expressed that they feel like tele-educating is better because they can record their classes, then every student can follow the class at their own pace and then students can contact the teacher seperately for questions. This could be a didactic revolution actually. Simply provide the kids with the infrastructure to follow the lessons (hardware/software) and let them take responsibility in following the course material.
This has multiple benefits: they learn responsibility earlier, everyone can follow the class at their own pace, you get a more personalized education (which is literally what is needed). Recording your class means it isn't slowed down by having people interrupting you or the hassle of them settling before actual class starts.
You do give up some socialization of children and teenagers, but those can be fixed with different types of social activities imo.
I wonder what's more expensive: maintaining an entire school building and the staff, or providing every child with the necessary resources, because if the latter is actually cheaper, its just another argument pro tele-education.
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On July 31 2020 20:54 pmh wrote:
Imo everything should be tried to open schools as safe as possible.
It's very easy to make a blanket statement of "everything should be tried" without actually considering how unrealistic the things would be in practice. We don't have the luxury of trying A, realizing it didn't work and now everyone's sick, and then switching to B afterwards, etc.
Keeping them shut is to detremental for the development of a whole generation and very damaging long term.
Out of curiosity, what literature have you read on the effects of remote learning for one full year, to support your claim? It's not like we're telling 4th graders that they can never go back to school for the rest of their lives. Also, you know what else is "very damaging long term"? Coronavirus.
Cnn keeps hammering on schools and how its not safe,implying they should not be opened. I dont get their angle tbh,opening schools is the one thing the left and right should agree on. I guess they are hammering on it only because trump wants them to open. Bipartizan BS.
Their angle is "students and faculty and families shouldn't die." It's really that straightforward, and that's the one thing that we should all be agreeing on.
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The problem is that not everyones home situation is suitable for tele learning. Specially kids from lower social classes often (not all,i dont want to stigmatize) dont have the stability and supportive environment at home that makes tele learning effective. Both parents might need to work full time,they dont have a student nanny from oversees that could help and what not.
School is also much more then just learning whats in the books,its also social development. At schools people from all sorts of different backgrounds mix with eachoter,at least to some extend. This also helps integration and is one step towards decreasing racism and segregation.
(even though i do realize how the school district system in the usa works,which to some extend is quiet segregated already).
cnn,s angle is "trump says yay we say nay" Cnn i watch quiet a bit and that really is their only angle lol.
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Northern Ireland25510 Posts
On July 31 2020 21:21 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2020 20:54 pmh wrote:
Imo everything should be tried to open schools as safe as possible. It's very easy to make a blanket statement of "everything should be tried" without actually considering how unrealistic the things would be in practice. We don't have the luxury of trying A, realizing it didn't work and now everyone's sick, and then switching to B afterwards, etc. Show nested quote +Keeping them shut is to detremental for the development of a whole generation and very damaging long term. Out of curiosity, what literature have you read on the effects of remote learning for one full year, to support your claim? It's not like we're telling 4th graders that they can never go back to school for the rest of their lives. Also, you know what else is "very damaging long term"? Coronavirus. Show nested quote +Cnn keeps hammering on schools and how its not safe,implying they should not be opened. I dont get their angle tbh,opening schools is the one thing the left and right should agree on. I guess they are hammering on it only because trump wants them to open. Bipartizan BS. Their angle is "students and faculty and families shouldn't die." It's really that straightforward, and that's the one thing that we should all be agreeing on.
I could only extrapolate from other areas in presuming it could be detrimental. At least in the social dimension. Kids born earlier in any academic year tend to do better for obvious reasons, a 6 month age gap is pretty huge when you’re 5/6. This trend does continue all throughout primary and secondary education, generally presumed to be the confidence in those early gains, or the inverse perpetuating themselves when there’s not a particular developmental gap.
It’ll affect different circumstances differently too. If your kid has siblings close in age, or if your friend circle has other parents with similarly aged children you can offset a lot of the loss of peer socialisation.
The decent halfway house solution seems to me to be staggering class intake so you’re in one week and off remote learning the next, so the class sizes are kept down and distancing can properly be done. That’s what was being put in place over here but alas there seems a push for full class sizes coming up.
As an aside being on TL we likely don’t have this issue, plenty of people are utterly illiterate with all things tech, had to run enough remote support this summer!
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Isn't it absurd that people differing by a year can sit in the same classroom, when it should be an obvious merit system.
If you have the insight/speed of learning/competence to keep up I think you should be able to follow classes designed for 12 or even 14 year olds when you're still 9 (because you excel at math), while still following classes designed for the 9 year old (because you're not so good at spelling yet for example).
This highly dynamic system also works super well with tele-working. Throw in the serious-game-didactic element in there (make maths like an MMORPG!) and you've got next gen education.
Proposition for social element: digital puzzle solving in group as homework related to the course material.
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On July 31 2020 14:47 cLutZ wrote:If opening schools causes your locale to be destroyed by C19 at this point, your locale was always going to be destroyed. That is what I've been trying to convey to you. This is just another version of "socialism has never been tried". Lockdowns have been extensively tried in the US, and they didn't work. This is just rich, because my aunt is an ex teacher now principal and she is among the least informed persons I know. You know who has been right and good at predicting C19 since January? Odd thinkers. Not government epidemiologists who were SUPER WRONG Jan-March and are trending super wrong June-Current, not teachers, not, anything that people call experts. Its the superpredictors of old who are generally ignored that got C19 right. They wanted border controls on Jan 15 or earlier. They were pro mask when epidemiologists were anti mask. And now, in America, they are pro-reopening, because they have recognized the truth that unless you lockdown until 2 years past vaccine (which I still haven't seen you present an alternative to under your reasoning) lockdown won't achieve the goals of lockdown.* *Unless you accept that lockdown means mass arrest of mostly minority young adult males and females. I mean, I don't mean to brag, but: https://imgur.com/a/WAdKUUW This is me in early May. Its sarcasm with a hint of truth vis-a-vis the "lockdowners", aka people who have no other plan than restrictions on movement. 2025 is plausible if you actually follow some of the reopening frameworks and no vaccine is developed.
Thats odd because my imaginary superpredictors who got everyting right in the past say something else.
Namely that you should get you collective heads out of your arses and recognise the invisible enemy in front of you.
Bullet points:
- Strong uniform messaging from leaders as high up as possible.
- "Lockdown" of varying degrees depending on spread, medical capacity and preparedness.
- Phisical distancing when possible and mask otherwise and indoors. Only neccesary trips.
- Use the time to heavily invest in testing and tracing.
- Reopen slowly when circumstances allow (probably widespread frequent testing capacity).
Might seem unrealistic or unobtainable. Not everyone will be on board. But not everyone hast to be.
Many will follow with the right mindset. Don't think us vs them. Its not. Its fighting a war.
Do what you can to buy some time for the scientists and pressure your poiticians. Vaccines will come, treatments get better and better and tests get cheaper and faster (low sensitivity, fast, cheap and frequent ist the way to go).
Opening schools schould be a bipartisan, yes. But safely so. If safety cant be insured you must not open.
Many where laughing at you (USA) before corona. Most are not laughing anymore.
Your are the god damn US of A. Get it together and act like it.
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On July 31 2020 21:23 pmh wrote:
The problem is that not everyones home situation is suitable for tele learning. Specially kids from lower social classes often (not all,i dont want to stigmatize) dont have the stability and supportive environment at home that makes tele learning effective. Both parents might need to work full time,they dont have a student nanny from oversees that could help and what not.
School is also much more then just learning whats in the books,its also social development. At schools people from all sorts of different backgrounds mix with eachoter,at least to some extend. This also helps integration and is one step towards decreasing racism and segregation.
(even though i do realize how the school district system in the usa works,which to some extend is quiet segregated already).
cnn,s angle is "trump says yay we say nay" Cnn i watch quiet a bit and that really is their only angle lol.
I agree with you that school offers a great opportunity for social interaction, although keep in mind that necessarily requires us to ignore social distancing, by definition. In the interest of safety, we need to curb said contact for the time being. I'd rather have children who missed one year of in-person social interactions than dead children and parents.
I think you've also identified the two most important issues that we need to consider, if we're to roll out online/remote teaching (which is going to happen, one way or another, whether it's mandated by schools now as a precaution, or ultimately forced in a few months when cases inevitably rise, so we need to be prepared anyway):
1. We need to make sure that all houses and families have the necessary technology/infrastructure to even permit online learning. This actually is a pretty simple solution: make the internet a public utility, subsidized by the government when needed. Given that the year is 2020 and the internet is all but required for everyday networking anyway, it wouldn't be a stretch to simply ensure this as a universal public service. There have actually been a bunch of ideas kicked around Congress for a while now, especially to accommodate those in very rural or very poor areas, such as the government program Lifeline.
2. Children may be left unattended at home / parents may need to leave for work. I think there are a few options here, depending on the scale and how extreme we want to be. Let me just explain what I think is the best option that I've heard so far. I think it's very reasonable to consider small groups of friends or family members or neighbors who can network (and isolate) together; I know a bunch of communities who have already been setting this up. It would go a little something like this: 5 close households, rotating who watches the set of children on any given weekday. On Monday, an adult from House 1 monitors the children, while the adults in Houses 2, 3, 4, and 5 all go to work. On Tuesday, the children stay in House 2 with a new adult, etc. That way, all parents can work at least 4 out of 5 days from Monday through Friday, and that's the worst-case scenario (if a parent can work from home, then the problem is solved anyway and they can go 5 for 5 work days). It's essentially having 5-10 kids in your house, once per week, and just managing them to make sure they're doing work. It's like the classroom management aspect of teaching, without needing to worry about the actual teaching (since the teaching is still done by the teachers, online). I think there are creative options out there that can still limit exposure (five families together, rather than hundreds or thousands together), while still ensuring that parents can work and make money. Thoughts?
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To add to your 2)
I feel like this is an important one, because it strengthens core community/family unit, which has been eroding for far too long now, partly because of letting an overarching institution stand in for the babysitting/care of developing individuals. I personally think this'll be more healthy for us as humans, but I don't have any hard evidence, only my gut.
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On July 31 2020 23:31 Uldridge wrote:
To add to your 2)
I feel like this is an important one, because it strengthens core community/family unit, which has been eroding for far too long now, partly because of letting an overarching institution stand in for the babysitting/care of developing individuals. I personally think this'll be more healthy for us as humans, but I don't have any hard evidence, only my gut.
That's a good point, and it certainly wouldn't hurt! You get some social interaction in there, which mitigates a lot of the "no interaction is harmful for development" points.
As an aside, as a teacher, I obviously have zero sympathy for any parent complaining about needing to monitor 5-10 kids for a few hours, once per week.
On July 31 2020 22:25 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2020 21:21 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 31 2020 20:54 pmh wrote:
Imo everything should be tried to open schools as safe as possible. It's very easy to make a blanket statement of "everything should be tried" without actually considering how unrealistic the things would be in practice. We don't have the luxury of trying A, realizing it didn't work and now everyone's sick, and then switching to B afterwards, etc. Keeping them shut is to detremental for the development of a whole generation and very damaging long term. Out of curiosity, what literature have you read on the effects of remote learning for one full year, to support your claim? It's not like we're telling 4th graders that they can never go back to school for the rest of their lives. Also, you know what else is "very damaging long term"? Coronavirus. Cnn keeps hammering on schools and how its not safe,implying they should not be opened. I dont get their angle tbh,opening schools is the one thing the left and right should agree on. I guess they are hammering on it only because trump wants them to open. Bipartizan BS. Their angle is "students and faculty and families shouldn't die." It's really that straightforward, and that's the one thing that we should all be agreeing on. I could only extrapolate from other areas in presuming it could be detrimental. At least in the social dimension. Kids born earlier in any academic year tend to do better for obvious reasons, a 6 month age gap is pretty huge when you’re 5/6. This trend does continue all throughout primary and secondary education, generally presumed to be the confidence in those early gains, or the inverse perpetuating themselves when there’s not a particular developmental gap. It’ll affect different circumstances differently too. If your kid has siblings close in age, or if your friend circle has other parents with similarly aged children you can offset a lot of the loss of peer socialisation. The decent halfway house solution seems to me to be staggering class intake so you’re in one week and off remote learning the next, so the class sizes are kept down and distancing can properly be done. That’s what was being put in place over here but alas there seems a push for full class sizes coming up. As an aside being on TL we likely don’t have this issue, plenty of people are utterly illiterate with all things tech, had to run enough remote support this summer!
My district just released their tentative plans to us this morning (literally an hour ago), so I'm still reading through and digesting everything. It seems they're looking to stagger student attendance in our schools as well, so that only a thousand or so students are in my school at any one time. The staggering of attendance is certainly better than full attendance every day, but obviously a ton of additional accommodations need to be made (for the students in school and for the students at home).
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EPT
