EPTSouth American Politics thread - Page 10
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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GreenHorizons
United States22936 Posts
The correct name was Gustavo Tarre and his implication was in email and quotes so the source is irrelevant. Charges of venezuelanalysis being a propaganda website of the Maduro regime are maybe slightly more solid than the rumors/conspiracy theory about Chavez daughters billions based on her instagram. That is to say it's not solid and based almost entirely on rumor. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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GreenHorizons
United States22936 Posts
On March 06 2019 00:39 JimmiC wrote: I thought this was a very interesting play by Maduro's propaganda arm ,venezuelanalysis.com. They created a group called the "Jamaica Peace Council" to say no to a invasion that hasn't happened. It is a pretty weak effort because after a quick google search you can see it was just created and only comments on Venezuela but I think it has a catchy name and if people don't bother to search the source they might believe it. https://jamaicapeacecouncil.wordpress.com/about/ https://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/14365 The Jamaica Peace Council isn't something Maduro made up. Here they are listed as attending the International Forum on the Liberation of Southern Africa that was held in Georgetown, Guyana from April 30 to May 3, 1981. Representatives of the following States participated in the Forum: Angola, Cuba, Democratic People’s Republic of Korea, Grenada, Guyana, India, Jamaica, Mozambique, St. Vincent and the Grenadines, Tanzania, Trinidad and Tobago and Zambia. (b) Representatives of the following Liberation Movements participated in the Forum: African National Congress; Polisario Front. (c) Representatives of the following Organisations participated in the Forum: United Nations Council for Namibia; United Nations Special Committee Against Apartheid; United Nations Special Committee on Decolonisation; Office of the United Nations Commissioner for Namibia; Organisation of African Unity; Caribbean Community; Dominicia Labour Party; Jamaica Peace Council; Pan African Movement (Jamaica); Council for the Affairs and Status of Women in Guyana; Guyana National Association of Youth and Students; Guyana Sanatan Dharma Maha Sabha; National Congress of Local Democratic Organs; People’s National Congress; Guyana Committee for solidarity and Peace; Guyana Pandits Council and Hindu Parishad; Trades Union Congress; Trinidad and Tobago T.V.; United Nations Association of Guyana; University of Guyana Students Society; Women’s Revolutionary Socialist Movement; Young Socialist Movement. apnuguyana.org | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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GreenHorizons
United States22936 Posts
They also have a twitter that's been around since 2013 opposing US interventions and a facebook that predates the Guaido drama for those that prefer that measure though. They've also been members of the World Peace Council for years Based on available information the far more likely explanation than Maduro making them up and planting their presence as far back as 1981 is that they are just a peace organization that has consistently opposed US intervention whether random people on the internet knew it or not imo. Or one can go with an elaborate conspiracy theory completely unsupported by the facts. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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GreenHorizons
United States22936 Posts
On April 15 2019 16:21 JimmiC wrote: Perhaps you are right, but have you read the articles they have posted? Do you believe them to fact checked and authentic? And even if so that is hardly the reason I think it is a propaganda machine, as you know since you back to march 6th and took my add on post but not the original. And then for arguments sake lets say it is just a super pro maduro news org like fox news is of trump but not exactly a propaganda machine. Does that even change anything? Certainly not the facts you are expertly avoiding. So far you've presented at least 3 conspiracies unsupported by facts, as facts. 1. venezuelanalysis is a propaganda arm of Maduro 2. Chavez daughter has billions in a European bank account 3. The Jamaican Peace Council was made up by Maduro in 2019 (this one is demonstrably false) I don't mind strong disagreements or complicated discussions, what I do mind is wildly unsupported claims presented as fact with unsubstantiated assertions of the same flying back at me. Unless someone else posts here (or at least PM's me) suggesting that me going through the problems in the arguments you're presenting is useful for them I'm just going to presume they've started ignoring them as I believe they and I should and just actually stop responding. I may still post updates or just post about the other countries in South America, but without that post/PM (from an observer) I can't see the value in engaging with you any more regarding Venezuela and it would be selfish of me to continue. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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GreenHorizons
United States22936 Posts
...the rules of the Fund prevent the agency from offering such assistance to opposition leader Juan Guaidó , proclaimed president in charge of the National Assembly last January...while there is no consensus among its members on whether they recognize him. "We can only be guided by members, is not a matter for us to decide. It must be a large majority of our members that diplomatically recognize the authorities that include as legitimate , " the managing director said today IMF , Christine Lagarde, at a press conference. www.baenegocios.com English, but also Telesur: www.telesurenglish.net Since it's GoT season and the IMF is a bit obscure, we can think of it as the Iron Bank without the record of stability and 189 member nations instead. So the US and others were unable to lobby a large majority of the 189 member nations (reps) to recognize Juan Guaido as interim president. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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GreenHorizons
United States22936 Posts
It must be a majority of nations that aren't recognizing Guaido as interim president. Which makes sense considering only ~50 countries of more than 190 have said anything of the sort. Most of which pressured by the Trump administration in public at the UN as well as elsewhere. That the IMF has been unable over these months to recognize Guaido despite intense pressure from the US, and the momentum all but completely stalled in country, it's looking increasingly likely this attempt at regime change has failed. So people know, VOA is quite literally a government funded US Propaganda arm. The Voice of America began during World War II as the official government news service of the United States www.motherjones.com EDIT: For perspective The US, Germany, and the UK backing Guaido gets the IMF to 25% even if the other 186 nations in the IMF refused to recognize him. So just over 50% is pretty bad. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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GreenHorizons
United States22936 Posts
I don't know how much longer (if it ever was) it's in the interest of the Venezuelan people to deprive them resources in hopes that current reality will eventually change. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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RvB
Netherlands6195 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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GreenHorizons
United States22936 Posts
On April 16 2019 04:43 RvB wrote: I don't see why the IMF is particular relevant to the discussion. It's not a political organisation (in fact it got a lot of backlash by its employees for being too political in the euro crisis). They can't sanction anything. The only thing they do is provide aid to countries in trouble in exchange for economic reforms. Obviously this isn't going to happen in Venezuela since Maduro is against any sane economic programme. Remember the Iron Bank analogy? Guaido is Stannis. If they don't fund him he's got nothing to offer. They can't fund him without member approval. They failed to get member approval (the best shot was right at the start of the attempted regime change) and nothing is moving in a direction of making it more likely. They may or may not come to terms for an aid package for Maduro (probably not), but as of now, Guaido is dead in the water. Combine that with virtually no defections from the ~2000 generals and cocaine consumption in the US as reliable as ever story is many generals supplement their income with coke money) and you get a failed coup or one's description of choice. Gabriel Silva, a former Colombian ambassador to Washington, said he’s worried that Colombian President Ivan Duque has “bet everything on the ouster of Maduro.” Silva, a Duque critic, said that the Colombian government “also bet on a high level of commitment of Mr. Trump to achieve that. Now, the reality is that that process has stagnated and is not moving forward. Every day that goes by is a day that Maduro gets stronger and stronger.” The plan to deliver humanitarian aid to help the hungry and challenge the Maduro government is stalled. The conviction that an oil embargo will force the leadership’s hand is challenged by other sources of income. Russia and China remain allies and oil clients. Venezuela says it will double its crude exports to India. And hundreds of millions of dollars in illegal drug money makes its way into the bank accounts of the country’s leaders, according to the U.S. The Drug Enforcement Administration recently estimated that 15 to 20 tons of cocaine still move from Venezuela to the U.S. each month, according to a person who works with the agency and asked not to be identified. Much of the illicit traffic is controlled by Venezuelan military officers and government officials, according to U.S. officials, meaning their countrymen may suffer but many of them won’t. A DEA spokeswoman declined to offer more specifics. Maduro has dismissed the U.S. allegations as absurd. The supporters of regime change have been scrambling since February according to reports in Bloomberg. Longtime observers, however, say the generals doubt the promises will be kept. This is a major reason why the revolution isn’t moving as quickly as some had hoped when Guaido electrified the world on Jan. 23 with his declaration. This has led to impatience and finger-pointing. U.S. policy makers and those around Guaido -- as well as leaders in Brazil and Colombia -- are eyeing one another and worrying about failure. Officials in each camp have said privately they assumed the others had a more developed strategy. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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