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On April 15 2019 13:31 GreenHorizons wrote:The Organization of American States (OAS) moves to put Guaido representative Carlos Trujillo — implicated in the alleged assassination attempt on Maduro — into leadership. Show nested quote +In a legally dubious attempt to legitimize Juan Guaido’s shadow regime, the US pushed to install a neoliberal operative implicated in an alleged Maduro assassination plot as Venezuela’s Organization of American States ambassador.
WASHINGTON DC – On April 9th, the Organization of American States’ permanent council voted under US pressure to adopt a resolution installing Venezuelan opposition leader Juan Guaido’s representative, Gustavo Tarre, to the governing body.
It was just the latest attempt to legitimize Guaido’s shadow regime by an increasingly anxious Trump administration flustered by the failure of the coup it set into motion this January 5.
Tellingly, when I pressed the US ambassador to the OAS, Carlos Trujillo, to specify what gave the council legal authority to recognize Gustavo Tarre as Venezuela’s new representative, he was unable to offer a coherent explanation.
Trujillo announced the special meeting to discuss the situation in Venezuela after it was requested on April 8th by the Permanent Missions of Colombia, Chile, Paraguay, Brazil, Argentina, Peru, and Canada. The request was submitted alongside a draft resolution accepting “the appointment of Mr. Gustavo Tarre as the Permanent Representative” of Venezuela and instructing OAS Secretary General Luis Almagro to “transmit the text of [the resolution] to the Secretary General of the United Nations.”
Five of the eighteen countries that voted for the US measure were recently taken over by pro-IMF governments (Argentina, Ecuador); hit by soft-legislative coups aided by Washington (Brazil, Paraguay); or targeted by direct US regime change operations (Honduras) during the Obama years. Haiti, which saw its democratically elected President Jean-Bertrand Aristide removed in a US-backed coup in 2004, recognized Guaido in order to secure Washington’s support amidst widespread popular unrest.
Tarre’s political background perfectly highlighted the brazen quality of the US attempt to remove Venezuela’s elected government. A Western-trained economist who advanced austerity policies at the notoriously neoliberal Instituto de Estudios Superiores de Administracion (IESA) in Venezuela, Tarre is currently a senior associate at the arms, banking and oil industry-funded Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS) think tank in Washington. thegrayzone.com
Your article cites is from venezualanalysis.com which already makes it questionable does not even name Carlos Trujillo. It names a bunch of other people, people who were Maduro's political rivals who all ended up in jail or exile. But pretty odd that this great source you trust to much quotes the propaganda website and then it does not even back up the articles claim.
https://venezuelanalysis.com/news/10712
And again this more cloak and dagger "you goto put the pieces together man" stuff than it is factual things that happen.
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It's been brought to my attention I accidentally copy-pasted the wrong name from the article into my summary.
The correct name was Gustavo Tarre and his implication was in email and quotes so the source is irrelevant.
Charges of venezuelanalysis being a propaganda website of the Maduro regime are maybe slightly more solid than the rumors/conspiracy theory about Chavez daughters billions based on her instagram.
That is to say it's not solid and based almost entirely on rumor.
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We went through it before on the legitimacy, feel free to reference my blog. And thanks for agreeing with how it is actually progressing their.
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After confirming there is nothing in the previous blog demonstrating venezuelanalysis as a propaganda arm of Maduro other than the repeated unsupported assertion I remembered something else I wanted to correct.
On March 06 2019 00:39 JimmiC wrote:I thought this was a very interesting play by Maduro's propaganda arm ,venezuelanalysis.com. They created a group called the "Jamaica Peace Council" to say no to a invasion that hasn't happened. It is a pretty weak effort because after a quick google search you can see it was just created and only comments on Venezuela but I think it has a catchy name and if people don't bother to search the source they might believe it. https://jamaicapeacecouncil.wordpress.com/about/https://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/14365
The Jamaica Peace Council isn't something Maduro made up. Here they are listed as attending the International Forum on the Liberation of Southern Africa that was held in Georgetown, Guyana from April 30 to May 3, 1981.
Representatives of the following States participated in the Forum: Angola, Cuba, Democratic People’s Republic of Korea, Grenada, Guyana, India, Jamaica, Mozambique, St. Vincent and the Grenadines, Tanzania, Trinidad and Tobago and Zambia.
(b) Representatives of the following Liberation Movements participated in the Forum: African National Congress; Polisario Front.
(c) Representatives of the following Organisations participated in the Forum: United Nations Council for Namibia; United Nations Special Committee Against Apartheid; United Nations Special Committee on Decolonisation; Office of the United Nations Commissioner for Namibia; Organisation of African Unity; Caribbean Community; Dominicia Labour Party; Jamaica Peace Council; Pan African Movement (Jamaica); Council for the Affairs and Status of Women in Guyana; Guyana National Association of Youth and Students; Guyana Sanatan Dharma Maha Sabha; National Congress of Local Democratic Organs; People’s National Congress; Guyana Committee for solidarity and Peace; Guyana Pandits Council and Hindu Parishad; Trades Union Congress; Trinidad and Tobago T.V.; United Nations Association of Guyana; University of Guyana Students Society; Women’s Revolutionary Socialist Movement; Young Socialist Movement.
apnuguyana.org
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On April 15 2019 15:32 GreenHorizons wrote:After confirming there is nothing in the previous blog demonstrating venezuelanalysis as a propaganda arm of Maduro other than the repeated unsupported assertion I remembered something else I wanted to correct. Show nested quote +On March 06 2019 00:39 JimmiC wrote:I thought this was a very interesting play by Maduro's propaganda arm ,venezuelanalysis.com. They created a group called the "Jamaica Peace Council" to say no to a invasion that hasn't happened. It is a pretty weak effort because after a quick google search you can see it was just created and only comments on Venezuela but I think it has a catchy name and if people don't bother to search the source they might believe it. https://jamaicapeacecouncil.wordpress.com/about/https://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/14365 The Jamaica Peace Council isn't something Maduro made up. Here they are listed as attending the International Forum on the Liberation of Southern Africa that was held in Georgetown, Guyana from April 30 to May 3, 1981. Show nested quote + Representatives of the following States participated in the Forum: Angola, Cuba, Democratic People’s Republic of Korea, Grenada, Guyana, India, Jamaica, Mozambique, St. Vincent and the Grenadines, Tanzania, Trinidad and Tobago and Zambia.
(b) Representatives of the following Liberation Movements participated in the Forum: African National Congress; Polisario Front.
(c) Representatives of the following Organisations participated in the Forum: United Nations Council for Namibia; United Nations Special Committee Against Apartheid; United Nations Special Committee on Decolonisation; Office of the United Nations Commissioner for Namibia; Organisation of African Unity; Caribbean Community; Dominicia Labour Party; Jamaica Peace Council; Pan African Movement (Jamaica); Council for the Affairs and Status of Women in Guyana; Guyana National Association of Youth and Students; Guyana Sanatan Dharma Maha Sabha; National Congress of Local Democratic Organs; People’s National Congress; Guyana Committee for solidarity and Peace; Guyana Pandits Council and Hindu Parishad; Trades Union Congress; Trinidad and Tobago T.V.; United Nations Association of Guyana; University of Guyana Students Society; Women’s Revolutionary Socialist Movement; Young Socialist Movement. apnuguyana.org
Great dig up and dodge. Running back to march 6th. I'm not sure how this relates to the facts that were laid out whats going on.
I guess it is completely reasonable that an legitimate organization or website that really is them attends something in 1981 then does not have a website until 2019 and then makes it first post regarding Venezuela with an extremely, how should I say it, Maduro favored response. They have some interesting sources in their articles.
I'm not sure if https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gustavo_Tarre is a real war criminal or just an opponent of Maduro that Maduro again CLAIMS is plotting assassinations. Based on his other crazy claims I doubt I'll believe this one either.
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As still less than half of Jamaica uses the internet, the Jamaica Peace Council's web presence is a poor judge of their existence.
They also have a twitter that's been around since 2013 opposing US interventions and a facebook that predates the Guaido drama for those that prefer that measure though.
They've also been members of the World Peace Council for years
Based on available information the far more likely explanation than Maduro making them up and planting their presence as far back as 1981 is that they are just a peace organization that has consistently opposed US intervention whether random people on the internet knew it or not imo. Or one can go with an elaborate conspiracy theory completely unsupported by the facts.
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On April 15 2019 15:52 GreenHorizons wrote:As still less than half of Jamaica uses the internet, the Jamaica Peace Council's web presence is a poor judge of their existence. They also have a twitter that's been around since 2013 opposing US interventions and a facebook that predates the Guaido drama for those that prefer that measure though. They've also been members of the World Peace Council for years Based on available information the far more likely explanation than Maduro making them up and planting their presence as far back as 1981 is that they are just a peace organization that has consistently opposed US intervention whether random people on the internet knew it or not imo. Or one can go with an elaborate conspiracy theory completely unsupported by the facts.
Perhaps you are right, but have you read the articles they have posted? Do you believe them to fact checked and authentic? And even if so that is hardly the reason I think it is a propaganda machine, as you know since you back to march 6th and took my add on post but not the original.
Also, I was in Jamica like 10 years ago, they might not have up in the mountains, but the major cities do even have wifi. They are pretty advanced. If this organization does not have the resources to pay 35 dollars a month for internet I struggle in believing that they have some hard hitting investigative journalists uncovering things others can't. They do appear to be a reliable source.
And then for arguments sake lets say it is just a super pro maduro news org like fox news is of trump but not exactly a propaganda machine. Does that even change anything? Certainly not the facts you are expertly avoiding.
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On April 15 2019 16:21 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2019 15:52 GreenHorizons wrote:As still less than half of Jamaica uses the internet, the Jamaica Peace Council's web presence is a poor judge of their existence. They also have a twitter that's been around since 2013 opposing US interventions and a facebook that predates the Guaido drama for those that prefer that measure though. They've also been members of the World Peace Council for years Based on available information the far more likely explanation than Maduro making them up and planting their presence as far back as 1981 is that they are just a peace organization that has consistently opposed US intervention whether random people on the internet knew it or not imo. Or one can go with an elaborate conspiracy theory completely unsupported by the facts. Perhaps you are right, but have you read the articles they have posted? Do you believe them to fact checked and authentic? And even if so that is hardly the reason I think it is a propaganda machine, as you know since you back to march 6th and took my add on post but not the original. And then for arguments sake lets say it is just a super pro maduro news org like fox news is of trump but not exactly a propaganda machine. Does that even change anything? Certainly not the facts you are expertly avoiding.
So far you've presented at least 3 conspiracies unsupported by facts, as facts.
1. venezuelanalysis is a propaganda arm of Maduro
2. Chavez daughter has billions in a European bank account
3. The Jamaican Peace Council was made up by Maduro in 2019 (this one is demonstrably false)
I don't mind strong disagreements or complicated discussions, what I do mind is wildly unsupported claims presented as fact with unsubstantiated assertions of the same flying back at me.
Unless someone else posts here (or at least PM's me) suggesting that me going through the problems in the arguments you're presenting is useful for them I'm just going to presume they've started ignoring them as I believe they and I should and just actually stop responding.
I may still post updates or just post about the other countries in South America, but without that post/PM (from an observer) I can't see the value in engaging with you any more regarding Venezuela and it would be selfish of me to continue.
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None of those were listed on my list of facts my friend. But they are presumptions I agree with. Would you like me to list yours? I dont see a need since you presumably know them as I do mine.
Your last sentence is an amazing dodge, not only have you pulled these 3 from months ago discussion to avoid the facts I just laid out and sourced at your request but you then try to compliment yourself and talk down to me. Wonderful.
Here's my take since you gave yours. Being the lengths you went to you did read the sources I posted. You cant dispute them with any facts of your own. You realize that all you can do is argue with presumption. You try that it doesnt work so you find my presumptions you disagree with and put them up as some sort of drop the mic moment. Sadly for you im aware of the difference between facts and presumptions and unlike you Im aware mine could he wrong. That is why I keep trying to bring it back to those pesky facts you avoid. But good news is if even you cant argue them than we finally have something on this topic to agree on. Well that and military invasion is bad.
But please feel free to stop posting, im not sure why you feel the need to announce it? It is really quite odd behavior. If you wish to stop posting just stop posting it is really that easy. And until new facts come out there really isnt anything to talk about unless we want to go back down the rabbit hole of what you think is happening.
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The International Monetary Fund failed to recognize Juan Guaido as interim president.
...the rules of the Fund prevent the agency from offering such assistance to opposition leader Juan Guaidó , proclaimed president in charge of the National Assembly last January...while there is no consensus among its members on whether they recognize him.
"We can only be guided by members, is not a matter for us to decide. It must be a large majority of our members that diplomatically recognize the authorities that include as legitimate , " the managing director said today IMF , Christine Lagarde, at a press conference.
www.baenegocios.com
English, but also Telesur:
www.telesurenglish.net
Since it's GoT season and the IMF is a bit obscure, we can think of it as the Iron Bank without the record of stability and 189 member nations instead.
So the US and others were unable to lobby a large majority of the 189 member nations (reps) to recognize Juan Guaido as interim president.
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Worth noting when it comes to voting, the US holds more votes than China, Russia, Syria, Iran, and Bolivia combined.
It must be a majority of nations that aren't recognizing Guaido as interim president. Which makes sense considering only ~50 countries of more than 190 have said anything of the sort. Most of which pressured by the Trump administration in public at the UN as well as elsewhere.
That the IMF has been unable over these months to recognize Guaido despite intense pressure from the US, and the momentum all but completely stalled in country, it's looking increasingly likely this attempt at regime change has failed.
So people know, VOA is quite literally a government funded US Propaganda arm.
The Voice of America began during World War II as the official government news service of the United States
www.motherjones.com
EDIT: For perspective The US, Germany, and the UK backing Guaido gets the IMF to 25% even if the other 186 nations in the IMF refused to recognize him. So just over 50% is pretty bad.
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Yes I was looking at that. It would be interesting to know what a large majority is and one the vote would be as they have not held it yet. It would be interesting to look at the vote because as you know China and Russia hold sway over a lot of countries as do the EU and US. Which countries are dissenting and what large majority is would be interesting. I also think your refuse to recognize him is stronger language than is probably accurate. There are a lot of countries who wish to stay out of it and are taking a neutral position. And as pointed out the IMF does feel strong enough about the job Maduro is doing to sanction him.
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I think the safest way to put it based on the available information is that the majority of the world (represented in any way other than IMF voting shares) doesn't recognize Juan Guaido as interim president. I'd add that imo, based on the information we have to date, they likely never will.
I don't know how much longer (if it ever was) it's in the interest of the Venezuelan people to deprive them resources in hopes that current reality will eventually change.
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Well the IMF clearly thinks it is. And really the % of countries that support Maduro are super small. 8 out of 196? There is a lot that are neutral no doubt. It is too bad MAduro won't accept more of the aid and it is even way sadder that a few months ago before the sanctions he was still losing millions of people a year and they will still dealing with lack of food medicine and hyper inflation.
Let us not pretend that it was caused by the sanctions. Obviously they are making it worse for the Maduro government but with how things were trending it appears to only be speeding up the inevitable.
What makes you think that Maduro would use the increased Funds if they reduced the sanctions to make it better for the people? And if he wanted to could he since he was unable to do so before the sanctions?
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I don't see why the IMF is particular relevant to the discussion. It's not a political organisation (in fact it got a lot of backlash by its employees for being too political in the euro crisis). They can't sanction anything. The only thing they do is provide aid to countries in trouble in exchange for economic reforms. Obviously this isn't going to happen in Venezuela since Maduro is against any sane economic programme.
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Yes they have just closed that line of credit or overdraft or whatever you would call it. Also after rereading the sources it says the over 50 countries that already support guaido would equal over 50% the ones that have announced they would not add up to a little more then 10. So you have 35% that we would not know how they would vote and what would constitute a large enough majority. But it wouldnt take alot of the undecideds to push Guaido over the top.
But as you say it really does not matter.
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On April 16 2019 04:43 RvB wrote: I don't see why the IMF is particular relevant to the discussion. It's not a political organisation (in fact it got a lot of backlash by its employees for being too political in the euro crisis). They can't sanction anything. The only thing they do is provide aid to countries in trouble in exchange for economic reforms. Obviously this isn't going to happen in Venezuela since Maduro is against any sane economic programme.
Remember the Iron Bank analogy? Guaido is Stannis. If they don't fund him he's got nothing to offer. They can't fund him without member approval. They failed to get member approval (the best shot was right at the start of the attempted regime change) and nothing is moving in a direction of making it more likely.
They may or may not come to terms for an aid package for Maduro (probably not), but as of now, Guaido is dead in the water.
Combine that with virtually no defections from the ~2000 generals and cocaine consumption in the US as reliable as ever story is many generals supplement their income with coke money) and you get a failed coup or one's description of choice.
Gabriel Silva, a former Colombian ambassador to Washington, said he’s worried that Colombian President Ivan Duque has “bet everything on the ouster of Maduro.” Silva, a Duque critic, said that the Colombian government “also bet on a high level of commitment of Mr. Trump to achieve that. Now, the reality is that that process has stagnated and is not moving forward. Every day that goes by is a day that Maduro gets stronger and stronger.”
The plan to deliver humanitarian aid to help the hungry and challenge the Maduro government is stalled. The conviction that an oil embargo will force the leadership’s hand is challenged by other sources of income. Russia and China remain allies and oil clients. Venezuela says it will double its crude exports to India. And hundreds of millions of dollars in illegal drug money makes its way into the bank accounts of the country’s leaders, according to the U.S.
The Drug Enforcement Administration recently estimated that 15 to 20 tons of cocaine still move from Venezuela to the U.S. each month, according to a person who works with the agency and asked not to be identified. Much of the illicit traffic is controlled by Venezuelan military officers and government officials, according to U.S. officials, meaning their countrymen may suffer but many of them won’t. A DEA spokeswoman declined to offer more specifics. Maduro has dismissed the U.S. allegations as absurd.
The supporters of regime change have been scrambling since February according to reports in Bloomberg.
Longtime observers, however, say the generals doubt the promises will be kept. This is a major reason why the revolution isn’t moving as quickly as some had hoped when Guaido electrified the world on Jan. 23 with his declaration. This has led to impatience and finger-pointing. U.S. policy makers and those around Guaido -- as well as leaders in Brazil and Colombia -- are eyeing one another and worrying about failure. Officials in each camp have said privately they assumed the others had a more developed strategy.
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Nothing on either the story you put or the ones I posted said the IMF would not support Guaido, just that it has not yet, and that there has not been a vote. So I think you are jumping the gun on that one.
That article is similar to the one I posted quite a while explaining why the generals won't swap sides, because Maduro has encouraged them into corruption that if they do turn they will likely be arrested. The fear of the US wanting to clean that up with their war on drugs. Also where it talks about the 100's of millions going into the bank accounts of the leadership is where I was talking about the leaders of the socialist party getting rich.
And hundreds of millions of dollars in illegal drug money makes its way into the bank accounts of the country’s leaders, according to the U.S.
The Drug Enforcement Administration recently estimated that 15 to 20 tons of cocaine still move from Venezuela to the U.S. each month, according to a person who works with the agency and asked not to be identified. Much of the illicit traffic is controlled by Venezuelan military officers and government officials, according to U.S. officials, meaning their countrymen may suffer but many of them won’t. A DEA spokeswoman declined to offer more specifics. Maduro has dismissed the U.S. allegations as absurd.
All of this article spells out a big reason why Maduro is horrible leader and not at all interested in the people of Venezuela. Hopefully reading this sort of thing will start to sway you.
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