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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 928
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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4356 Posts
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
At least we're in agreement that T_D is pro Russia. | ||
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Godwrath
Spain10131 Posts
On November 12 2018 04:50 kmillz wrote: So many things wrong with your post. How would you know what's in /r/The_Donald if you don't even "waste your time"? You're literally just regurgitating NPC leftist talking points from /r/pol spewed by their propaganda sources. You don't actually go there, or know what the people there are like, or engage with them to see what they really think. And if you did you would know everything you're saying is complete nonsense. Nobody gives a shit about Russia or Putin, for the most part. They certainly aren't showering him with praise, they just don't want the US to be unnecessarily hostile with one of the world's most dangerous superpowers. As for the shutting down "toxic, pointless debate when it affects the mainstream" first of all, that's authoritarian in its OWN right. Toxic and pointless debates should not be squelched merely for being toxic or pointless. Second of all, who decides what is toxic or pointless? You? Tech media giants? I have wasted some time lurking there (i usually spend more time reading/listening to stuff I don't agree with). The Donald is the perfect cocktail of stupidity, fear and character worship. Anyone could spend 5 minutes reading the threads and comments and see it for themselves, but if they are not willing to subject themselves to the eye-bleeding amount of retarded shit that populates that subreddit, I can safely tell them not to bother with it. Just an example of the kind of stuff you are showered with. + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/lQqqamm.jpg) | ||
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kmillz
United States1548 Posts
On November 12 2018 08:02 Aquanim wrote: Are you seriously claiming that Putin's effect on the USA is the only relevant metric to judge him on? No, but our own government is a far great concern to most Americans than Putin. Most people agree that Putin is not a good guy. If you actually look through the majority of comments in this one thread people are saying they just want peace and healthy relationships with our adversaries. | ||
micronesia
United States24740 Posts
On November 12 2018 07:52 ReditusSum wrote: Comparing Trump to Hitler, saying Trump is an existential threat to the United States and to democracy in general, claiming he is putting people in concentration camps, calling him a traitor, Putin's puppet, a Manchurian candidate, he's going to start WW3, Republicans are going to kill people by taking away their health care, Republicans want people to starve in the streets, Republicans want to put black people back in chains, Trump's base is deplorable, racist, bigoted, hateful, complicit... these do not motivate crazy people to shoot Republican Congressmen and Senators and so shouldn't be banned (despite these literally motivating a crazy person to shoot Republican Congressmen and Senators). Saying Trump and Russian colluded to steal and election is not undermining the trust in elections and so it shouldn't be banned (despite this undermining trust in elections). But right-wing talking points do have to be banned. Sounds legit. I don't think anyone here claimed that most/all right-wing talking points have to be banned. Perhaps you should cite what you specifically are responding to and we can clear up miscommunication. Also, a few of those 'left-wing talking points' you cite were not stated here either. Nobody here is saying that everything said by a liberal somewhere in this country is automatically acceptable. | ||
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Aquanim
Australia2849 Posts
On November 12 2018 08:06 kmillz wrote: No, but our own government is a far great concern to most Americans than Putin. Most people agree that Putin is not a good guy. If you actually look through the majority of comments in this one thread people are saying they just want peace and healthy relationships with our adversaries. I can appreciate being more concerned with things closer to home. That's not the same thing as claiming Putin "isn't as bad" as the American government and labelling the latter "Satanists", a sentiment which you claimed was "to an extent... true". | ||
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kmillz
United States1548 Posts
On November 12 2018 08:09 Aquanim wrote: I can appreciate being more concerned with things closer to home. That's not the same thing as claiming Putin "isn't as bad" as the American government, a sentiment which you claimed was "to an extent... true". I didn't say that though lol *shrug* | ||
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
On November 12 2018 08:05 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: Bankrupt Chicagos latest attempt to balance the books, a 9% ‘amusement tax’ on gaming, tv shows, fun.Pretty bizarre.Better stock up in the next couple of days i guess. That tax has been there since 2015. Sony just stopped fighting it. Nintendo and Microsoft already had the tax in effect. It's also only a rental/streaming tax and not on sales. | ||
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4356 Posts
On November 12 2018 08:05 WolfintheSheep wrote: So basically we went from T_D doesn't praise Russian and Putin to the praise is there because it's true. At least we're in agreement that T_D is pro Russia. Well he’s a nationalist so of course they like him.Nationalism is on the rise in the west and globalism is on the decline. I mean Macron actually denounced nationalism in a speech yesterday and his approval rating is 21%. | ||
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Aquanim
Australia2849 Posts
On November 12 2018 07:55 kmillz wrote: This is hyperbole, but to an extent it is true. Our own government has done far more destruction to our rights than Russia has in the last few decades. Would you care to clarify this post then? | ||
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kmillz
United States1548 Posts
On November 12 2018 08:14 Aquanim wrote: Would you care to clarify this post then? Not sure what more there is to clarify, do you need me to define hyperbole for you? | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
Now if people want to talk about the merits of r/corgis, I’m here. | ||
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Aquanim
Australia2849 Posts
On November 12 2018 08:15 kmillz wrote: Not sure what more there is to clarify, do you need me to define hyperbole for you? You could define specifically to what extent you believe it is true. Otherwise we are not exchanging information and this is not a conversation, merely rhetoric. | ||
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kmillz
United States1548 Posts
On November 12 2018 08:22 Aquanim wrote: You could define to what extent you believe it is true. Otherwise we are not exchanging information and this is not a conversation, merely rhetoric. Globally and overall Russia is absolutely worse than the US, and Putin is not a good man. That doesn't mean we can't find common ground and things to work out with one of the world's biggest nuclear powers. As it relates to how these things directly affect American citizens, our own government has been more damaging to our own civil liberties with heinous policies enacted by both George Bush and Barack Obama. Most notably the Patriot Act and the NDAA. Saying "Putin's not as bad as Satanists in our own government" is an exaggeration, in my view (they are not literally Satanists and our government is not literally worse than Putin), but it (the American government) has been very bad for American civil liberties and is directly affecting Americans in a worse way than Russia currently is. | ||
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Aquanim
Australia2849 Posts
On November 12 2018 08:27 kmillz wrote: Globally and overall Russia is absolutely worse than the US, and Putin is not a good man. That doesn't mean we can't find common ground and things to work out with one of the world's biggest nuclear powers. As it relates to how these things directly affect American citizens, our own government has been more damaging to our own civil liberties with heinous policies enacted by both George Bush and Barack Obama. Most notably the Patriot Act and the NDAA. Saying "Putin's not as bad as Satanists in our own government" is an exaggeration, in my view (they are not literally Satanists and our government is not literally worse than Putin), but it (the American government) has been very bad for American civil liberties and is directly affecting Americans in a worse way than Russia currently is. The government of the United States has greater capability by several orders of magnitude to affect the lives of its citizens, for better or for worse, than any foreign power including Russia, so the American government) has been very bad for American civil liberties and is directly affecting Americans in a worse way than Russia currently is is not really an interesting statement. Is there a reason why Trump didn't make your list of presidents infringing on civil liberties? | ||
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kmillz
United States1548 Posts
On November 12 2018 08:32 Aquanim wrote: The government of the United States has greater capability by several orders of magnitude to affect the lives of its citizens, for better or for worse, than any foreign power including Russia, so is not really an interesting statement. Is there a reason why Trump didn't make your list of presidents infringing on civil liberties? I was just answering the question, I'm sorry it was uninteresting lol. As I'm sure you are aware, alot of Trump supporters are nationalists. That's not a dog whistle, it just means they care about the interests of our own country ahead of the interests of other countries. Trump ran on "America First" and that resonated very well for his base. So when people try to spread the word about how evil Russia is, most Americans don't put that much concern into it because it doesn't directly effect them. That doesn't mean they love Russia or consider Putin to be a great guy, which is what alot of people seem to believe. They don't hate or love Russia, they overall don't care much for it and are getting tired of the constant droning on and on about Russia. Why should Trump be on that list? I turn my webcam to my ceiling because of Obama and Bush. I do wish Trump would do more to end those policies but he didn't start them or expand on them as far as I know. Which policies do you mean? | ||
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Aquanim
Australia2849 Posts
On November 12 2018 08:40 kmillz wrote:Why should Trump be on that list? I turn my webcam to my ceiling because of Obama and Bush. I do wish Trump would do more to end those policies but he didn't start them or expand on them as far as I know. Which policies do you mean? The Trump administration seems to be thoroughly uninterested in getting rid of intrusive spying laws: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/nov/03/trump-draconian-surveillance-laws-prism-snowden There's also the attacks of the Trump administration on the civil liberties of minorities but I don't think getting into that with you is a worthwhile use of my time. If you want to know more in that direction, Google it. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
I grew up in an era where any one of these acts would have ended political careers, including being a nationalist. That is no longer the case. Anti Semitism and racism still exist, so we have accept that something changed. So either all of this stuff is no longer a problem or the racists are no longer being punished for their racism. | ||
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iamthedave
England2814 Posts
On November 12 2018 04:50 kmillz wrote: So many things wrong with your post. How would you know what's in /r/The_Donald if you don't even "waste your time"? You're literally just regurgitating NPC leftist talking points from /r/pol spewed by their propaganda sources. You don't actually go there, or know what the people there are like, or engage with them to see what they really think. And if you did you would know everything you're saying is complete nonsense. Nobody gives a shit about Russia or Putin, for the most part. They certainly aren't showering him with praise, they just don't want the US to be unnecessarily hostile with one of the world's most dangerous superpowers. As for the shutting down "toxic, pointless debate when it affects the mainstream" first of all, that's authoritarian in it's OWN right. Toxic and pointless debates should not be squelched merely for being toxic or pointless. Second of all, who decides what is toxic or pointless? You? Tech media giants? 1) I did my time, I do know what's in T_D generally, but not today's top posts. It's a horrible place that no sane man should go, and I have better things to do with my time. Unless you want to argue that the character of T_D has changed drastically (it clearly hasn't going by what other people who've been there recently have said) then my prior investigations work just fine. 2) Lurking and reading is quite enough for me, thanks. I can do without mixing with that particular brand of person. 3) No, the government decides. Fucking obviously. The government elected by the people, trusted by the people to handle these things, decides. Otherwise, why did you elect them in the first place? 4) As I said already, pretty much every Western country that isn't America manages to both have laws restricting certain kinds of discourse and a democracy. I'm sure that the US could handle this remarkably simple bit of legislation as well. 5) Having re-read point 4, I realise I may be given the US too much credit. But I believe you could do it if you tried. 6) Pivoting away from Alex Jones doesn't deflate or deflect my point. It should be obvious to any sane human being that Infowars and its ilk should not be allowed to exist. It is actively, maliciously harmful, and it should not in any way be protected by 'free speech'. And no, I will not accept a slippery slope fallacy argument. Every other western country in the western hemisphere has managed this. It really isn't hard. | ||
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kmillz
United States1548 Posts
On November 12 2018 08:56 Aquanim wrote: The Trump administration seems to be thoroughly uninterested in getting rid of intrusive spying laws: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/nov/03/trump-draconian-surveillance-laws-prism-snowden There's also the attacks of the Trump administration on the civil liberties of minorities but I don't think getting into that with you is a worthwhile use of my time. If you want to know more in that direction, Google it. I'm sure a nice google search will find some rhetoric, I'm only interested in discussing actual policy he has changed. I'm not aware of any. I already stated that I wish he was doing more to change those awful laws. But not changing laws that exist and actually creating them are much different and that is why I left him off of my list. | ||
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