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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread |
On November 11 2018 20:14 iamthedave wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2018 20:09 kmillz wrote:On November 11 2018 20:04 iamthedave wrote:On November 11 2018 19:58 kmillz wrote:
> Because the other side openly approves of the actions of literal dictators and fascists, expresses open admiration for them, and sometimes openly states they wish they could do the same in the US.
The same what? And can you please give some citations for these outlandish assertions. Also I like how you made the leap from "approving of an action taken by some dictator/fascist and admiring them" to Muslim groups literally manufacturing terrorists. The two aren't the same, or the same point. One was a clear indicator of the leanings of the current administration and why it gets accused of the things it does, the other was just looking at finding some consistency (or not) of Nettles' position on censorship. Because most people who stridently object to any censorship of the insane shit right wing platforms allow simultaneously believe Muslims doing functionally the same thing shouldn't be allowed. As for citations, do your own research. Trump has expressed support for almost every dictator in the world today and several times wondered at things like delaying/suspending elections, being President for life, and other such things he thinks are great. Lol ok well none of those things are found in "The Donald". So not sure where you want me to look. It has been in the past. I don't browse that forum for relatively obvious reasons. This article is a relatively neutral account of some of Trump's positive statements towards some of the literal worst people in the world (i say some because there are definitely some on here worse than others) https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/03/trump-xi-jinping-dictators/554810/Look at the statements, then the people, and more importantly the regimes being given tacit support in the process, I'm not willing to browse T_D to cite my sources. That place is awful and I could be spending my time doing literally anything else (up to an including watching paint dry) and count myself as having spent my time better. Besides, it really is just random arseholes on the internet, so it doesn't matter that much. Why it's important is because bullshit from T_D is seeping into the mainstream and being reported as news.
Ok well I think that we've veered pretty far away from what the topic I was trying to discuss, which I (perhaps mistakenly) thought you were as well. The guy you were responding to was attacking the idea of censoring places like The Donald and you appeared to be defending it. Not sure how much Trump giving praise to bad people has to do with censoring those places.
On November 11 2018 19:48 iamthedave wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2018 07:55 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On November 11 2018 01:30 Mohdoo wrote:
I think/hope T_D is gonna end up deleted soon. The kind of anger they are stoking right now regarding the midterm voting is really scary to see. People are being actively radicalized on one of the biggest websites around. This is so sad to watch. Interesting how the left is currently going through a phase of increasing censorship of opinions they disagree with but they continue to call the other side authoritarian. Ban it and they’ll move enmasse to 4chan and 8chan.And they will become radicalised then because they have been deplatformed. Because the other side openly approves of the actions of literal dictators and fascists, expresses open admiration for them, and sometimes openly states they wish they could do the same in the US. It's kind of a hint. Just to make sure you're consistent, do you feel the same way about certain Muslim groups using platforms to radicalise people into becoming terrorists? Or do you think those places should be shut down wherever they are discovered? Show nested quote +On November 11 2018 19:10 kmillz wrote:On November 11 2018 09:18 Mohdoo wrote:On November 11 2018 07:55 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On November 11 2018 01:30 Mohdoo wrote:
I think/hope T_D is gonna end up deleted soon. The kind of anger they are stoking right now regarding the midterm voting is really scary to see. People are being actively radicalized on one of the biggest websites around. This is so sad to watch. Interesting how the left is currently going through a phase of increasing censorship of opinions they disagree with but they continue to call the other side authoritarian. Ban it and they’ll move enmasse to 4chan and 8chan.And they will become radicalised then because they have been deplatformed. I never said Fox news should be censored. The_donald actively encourages a type of philosophy that inspires violence. Violence is the distinction. I'd argue that the mainstream media enrages people and encourages violence too. A crazy Bernie supporter shot Steve Scalise, though I don't recall any media outlets suggest he should be blamed for that (and he shouldn't be, of course). I'd think it's safe to say the media shares some blame in stoking the flames of radical people on both sides, but I think advocating for censorship leads to a slippery slope. Who is the arbiter of truth that gets to decide which platforms need to be censored? It really isn't as hard as Americans make it out to be. You hold public media companies - especially news ones - to certain journalistic standards and allow for serious redress if they're caught lying up to and including taking away their broadcast license (if you claim to be dealing in News you aren't allowed to lie about it; that isn't the same as having a certain political spin on interpretations of events, but spreading propoganda, outright misrepresentation and the like, are not permitted). You pass and enforce laws that ban certain kinds of particularly virulent speech from those same media organisations, thus shutting down extreme opinion speakers like Hannity, that Jeanine person and Tucker Carlson, who spew 100% bullshit with the authority of the word 'NEWS' behind the network they do it from. This doesn't mean there are no places for them to go, but they shouldn't be allowed to do it under the banner of News. I know that Americans will scream and cry reading this, but seriously, it has remarkably little effect save making a clear demarcation between the news (which should be its nature be a relatively boring, fact-focused affair) and firebrand opinion speakers who can happily communicate via youtube and other services, or if they're popular enough (like *guh* Piers Morgan) get their own TV shows dedicated to it. The US mainstream media is a toxic sludge because it gloms both together. It's fucking absurd that Sean Hannity - who freely admits to be an opinions guy - is the one people go to for their news because he has Fox NEWS fully behind him. People are stupid. You need to put those clear lines of separation down and enforce them, or else people will make assumptions.
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I think T_D is on the edge. It's fine for it to just be a place for the Trump fanclub to share their (inexplicable) love for the man, but it's very close to being a conspiracy theory breeding ground that's affecting the mainstream political sphere.
My perspective is coloured because I regularly browse r_pol, which is more left leaning but has articles very much of the same vein. The difference is that T_D often engages in outright falacious reporting and generation of conspiracy theories, while r_pol literally just discusses articles found from news websites, so while the posters there clearly lean liberal, they aren't affecting the public discourse or even really trying to.
If T_D had the same base structure only they focused on right wing news articles I wouldn't care in the slightest.
My problem with what Nettles said is the typical right wing problem where they don't seem to understand why censorship is being discussed in that instance, and why it's not a sign of authoritarianism. It's perfectly reasonable to shut down completely toxic, pointless political debate when that debate begins to affect the mainstream. T_D is hitting that threshold, because the WH has now shared doctored, fake footage that someone - presumably an intern - found there.
Relatedly, it is absurd that infowars was not aggressively shut down years ago. Alex Jones is a one man argument for why people like him should be legalised against. He spreads nothing but disinformation and lies and has done incalcuable harm to the public discourse and to the grieving families of victims of school shootings. People like him should be either in jail or chased so far to the edges of society that it borders on impossible for their voice to be heard. He contributes nothing, not one positive thing, to the ongoing political debate in your country.
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Honestly, Reddit is an appalling platform for anything other than strictly nerdy topics. It's a whitewashed version of 4chan, and it should be treated it as a toxic hellhole that is only worth visiting for some of its very specific subreddits (e.g. Starcraft or DotA) for very specific content.
Its more general topics seeping into mainstream consciousness are just as worrying as if suddenly teamliquid became a source for political news. It's not. It's a group of random nerds in the internet who share a love for some very specific games, and spend enough time here to also talk about other stuff, including politics. The only thing separating teamliquid from Reddit in its general content is that teamliquid has very strict moderation that bans bullshit, whereas reddit has an awful laissez faire approach. Combine that with a far broader user base and it's troll Valhalla.
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On November 11 2018 04:59 Plansix wrote:
The problem is there is nothing abnormal about what is happening in AZ and FL. Elections take time, especially if there are close margins. All of Trumps bluster is much to do about nothing. The problem is people believe him.
That and he is threatening to pull aid during a natural disaster, because he is a complete peice of shit.
Edit: also a bitch because he is scared of rain + seeing leaders of other nations.
Brenda Snipes who runs the Broward county elections seems at the very least extremely incompetent
The elections supervisor in Florida’s second-most populous county broke state and federal law by unlawfully destroying ballots cast in Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz’s 2016 Democratic primary, a judge ruled Friday in a case brought by the congresswoman’s challenger who wanted to check for voting irregularities.
www.politico.com
So they were monitoring her and she seems to keep fucking up,
I just thought it was interesting because Broward has been the centre of controversy for a long time.
Also you guys need to ditch electronic voting
On November 11 2018 21:33 Acrofales wrote:
Honestly, Reddit is an appalling platform for anything other than strictly nerdy topics. It's a whitewashed version of 4chan, and it should be treated it as a toxic hellhole that is only worth visiting for some of its very specific subreddits (e.g. Starcraft or DotA) for very specific content.
Its more general topics seeping into mainstream consciousness are just as worrying as if suddenly teamliquid became a source for political news. It's not. It's a group of random nerds in the internet who share a love for some very specific games, and spend enough time here to also talk about other stuff, including politics. The only thing separating teamliquid from Reddit in its general content is that teamliquid has very strict moderation that bans bullshit, whereas reddit has an awful laissez faire approach. Combine that with a far broader user base and it's troll Valhalla.
it's not even good for that, a lot of the subreddits for games are controlled by the companies despite what reddit's own policies say and often that is clearly visible from the rules that exist solely so the game doesn't look bad
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Florida is going to be Florida. There is nothing unusual about the state having a tough time with elections. There has not been a lot of effort by the people who run the state to fix the problem.
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What should we be doing to prevent disasters like seen in California? With proper engineering resources, it can be 100% prevented. We can't prevent forest fires, but we can prevent fires from reaching a critical level.
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On November 12 2018 03:41 Mohdoo wrote:
What should we be doing to prevent disasters like seen in California? With proper engineering resources, it can be 100% prevented. We can't prevent forest fires, but we can prevent fires from reaching a critical level. Have you considered not building inside area's that are a wildfire hazard?
The solution seems kinda simple to me.
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That’s like saying people shouldn’t live in hurricane zones, it’s just not feasible
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Trump backing out of a cemetary visit over rain is golden fodder for the 2020 election. Wait for him to set it up by talking about something he doesn't want to do during a debate and then have the Dem say something like "what's wrong Donald, are you afraid it might rain?" Cant wait.
Trump continues to be the avatar of irony. The poor working class loves him despite him being a living embodiment of excess and corporate greed. He is seen by his base as a hero of the military despite stuff like this rain incident, his insults of the military (gold star parents, McCain, being captured etc), and being a draft dodger. The evangelicals love him despite his blatant adultery and being an exemplar of all 7 deadly sins. Cant make this shit up. I guess when he hates the same people you hate it's easy to look past things like that tho.
Edit: oh yeah, him not going to the cemetery also goes a long way towards undermining his criticism of athletes kneeling for the national anthem. Kneeling is a lot less insulting than backing out of a cemetery visit over a light rain.
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On November 11 2018 21:11 iamthedave wrote:
I think T_D is on the edge. It's fine for it to just be a place for the Trump fanclub to share their (inexplicable) love for the man, but it's very close to being a conspiracy theory breeding ground that's affecting the mainstream political sphere.
My perspective is coloured because I regularly browse r_pol, which is more left leaning but has articles very much of the same vein. The difference is that T_D often engages in outright falacious reporting and generation of conspiracy theories, while r_pol literally just discusses articles found from news websites, so while the posters there clearly lean liberal, they aren't affecting the public discourse or even really trying to.
If T_D had the same base structure only they focused on right wing news articles I wouldn't care in the slightest.
My problem with what Nettles said is the typical right wing problem where they don't seem to understand why censorship is being discussed in that instance, and why it's not a sign of authoritarianism. It's perfectly reasonable to shut down completely toxic, pointless political debate when that debate begins to affect the mainstream. T_D is hitting that threshold, because the WH has now shared doctored, fake footage that someone - presumably an intern - found there.
Relatedly, it is absurd that infowars was not aggressively shut down years ago. Alex Jones is a one man argument for why people like him should be legalised against. He spreads nothing but disinformation and lies and has done incalcuable harm to the public discourse and to the grieving families of victims of school shootings. People like him should be either in jail or chased so far to the edges of society that it borders on impossible for their voice to be heard. He contributes nothing, not one positive thing, to the ongoing political debate in your country.
So many things wrong with your post. How would you know what's in /r/The_Donald if you don't even "waste your time"? You're literally just regurgitating NPC leftist talking points from /r/pol spewed by their propaganda sources. You don't actually go there, or know what the people there are like, or engage with them to see what they really think. And if you did you would know everything you're saying is complete nonsense. Nobody gives a shit about Russia or Putin, for the most part. They certainly aren't showering him with praise, they just don't want the US to be unnecessarily hostile with one of the world's most dangerous superpowers.
As for the shutting down "toxic, pointless debate when it affects the mainstream" first of all, that's authoritarian in it's OWN right. Toxic and pointless debates should not be squelched merely for being toxic or pointless. Second of all, who decides what is toxic or pointless? You? Tech media giants?
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On November 12 2018 04:50 kmillz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2018 21:11 iamthedave wrote:
I think T_D is on the edge. It's fine for it to just be a place for the Trump fanclub to share their (inexplicable) love for the man, but it's very close to being a conspiracy theory breeding ground that's affecting the mainstream political sphere.
My perspective is coloured because I regularly browse r_pol, which is more left leaning but has articles very much of the same vein. The difference is that T_D often engages in outright falacious reporting and generation of conspiracy theories, while r_pol literally just discusses articles found from news websites, so while the posters there clearly lean liberal, they aren't affecting the public discourse or even really trying to.
If T_D had the same base structure only they focused on right wing news articles I wouldn't care in the slightest.
My problem with what Nettles said is the typical right wing problem where they don't seem to understand why censorship is being discussed in that instance, and why it's not a sign of authoritarianism. It's perfectly reasonable to shut down completely toxic, pointless political debate when that debate begins to affect the mainstream. T_D is hitting that threshold, because the WH has now shared doctored, fake footage that someone - presumably an intern - found there.
Relatedly, it is absurd that infowars was not aggressively shut down years ago. Alex Jones is a one man argument for why people like him should be legalised against. He spreads nothing but disinformation and lies and has done incalcuable harm to the public discourse and to the grieving families of victims of school shootings. People like him should be either in jail or chased so far to the edges of society that it borders on impossible for their voice to be heard. He contributes nothing, not one positive thing, to the ongoing political debate in your country. So many things wrong with your post. How would you know what's in /r/The_Donald if you don't even "waste your time"? You're literally just regurgitating NPC leftist talking points from /r/pol spewed by their propaganda sources. You don't actually go there, or know what the people there are like, or engage with them to see what they really think. And if you did you would know everything you're saying is complete nonsense. Nobody gives a shit about Russia or Putin, for the most part. They certainly aren't showering him with praise, they just don't want the US to be unnecessarily hostile with one of the world's most dangerous superpowers. As for the shutting down "toxic, pointless debate when it affects the mainstream" first of all, that's authoritarian in it's OWN right. Toxic and pointless debates should not be squelched merely for being toxic or pointless. Second of all, who decides what is toxic or pointless? You? Tech media giants?
you can find a dozen posts about russia or putin on T_D before you get to the second page. and even more post showering with praise. either you’re deliberately lying or you too have just no idea what youre talking about.
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On November 12 2018 05:09 brian wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2018 04:50 kmillz wrote:On November 11 2018 21:11 iamthedave wrote:
I think T_D is on the edge. It's fine for it to just be a place for the Trump fanclub to share their (inexplicable) love for the man, but it's very close to being a conspiracy theory breeding ground that's affecting the mainstream political sphere.
My perspective is coloured because I regularly browse r_pol, which is more left leaning but has articles very much of the same vein. The difference is that T_D often engages in outright falacious reporting and generation of conspiracy theories, while r_pol literally just discusses articles found from news websites, so while the posters there clearly lean liberal, they aren't affecting the public discourse or even really trying to.
If T_D had the same base structure only they focused on right wing news articles I wouldn't care in the slightest.
My problem with what Nettles said is the typical right wing problem where they don't seem to understand why censorship is being discussed in that instance, and why it's not a sign of authoritarianism. It's perfectly reasonable to shut down completely toxic, pointless political debate when that debate begins to affect the mainstream. T_D is hitting that threshold, because the WH has now shared doctored, fake footage that someone - presumably an intern - found there.
Relatedly, it is absurd that infowars was not aggressively shut down years ago. Alex Jones is a one man argument for why people like him should be legalised against. He spreads nothing but disinformation and lies and has done incalcuable harm to the public discourse and to the grieving families of victims of school shootings. People like him should be either in jail or chased so far to the edges of society that it borders on impossible for their voice to be heard. He contributes nothing, not one positive thing, to the ongoing political debate in your country. So many things wrong with your post. How would you know what's in /r/The_Donald if you don't even "waste your time"? You're literally just regurgitating NPC leftist talking points from /r/pol spewed by their propaganda sources. You don't actually go there, or know what the people there are like, or engage with them to see what they really think. And if you did you would know everything you're saying is complete nonsense. Nobody gives a shit about Russia or Putin, for the most part. They certainly aren't showering him with praise, they just don't want the US to be unnecessarily hostile with one of the world's most dangerous superpowers. As for the shutting down "toxic, pointless debate when it affects the mainstream" first of all, that's authoritarian in it's OWN right. Toxic and pointless debates should not be squelched merely for being toxic or pointless. Second of all, who decides what is toxic or pointless? You? Tech media giants? you can find a dozen posts about russia or putin on T_D before you get to the second page. and even more post showering with praise. either you’re deliberately lying or you too have just no idea what youre talking about.
You're literally just making that up. Nothing else to say besides that.
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On November 12 2018 05:21 kmillz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2018 05:09 brian wrote:On November 12 2018 04:50 kmillz wrote:On November 11 2018 21:11 iamthedave wrote:
I think T_D is on the edge. It's fine for it to just be a place for the Trump fanclub to share their (inexplicable) love for the man, but it's very close to being a conspiracy theory breeding ground that's affecting the mainstream political sphere.
My perspective is coloured because I regularly browse r_pol, which is more left leaning but has articles very much of the same vein. The difference is that T_D often engages in outright falacious reporting and generation of conspiracy theories, while r_pol literally just discusses articles found from news websites, so while the posters there clearly lean liberal, they aren't affecting the public discourse or even really trying to.
If T_D had the same base structure only they focused on right wing news articles I wouldn't care in the slightest.
My problem with what Nettles said is the typical right wing problem where they don't seem to understand why censorship is being discussed in that instance, and why it's not a sign of authoritarianism. It's perfectly reasonable to shut down completely toxic, pointless political debate when that debate begins to affect the mainstream. T_D is hitting that threshold, because the WH has now shared doctored, fake footage that someone - presumably an intern - found there.
Relatedly, it is absurd that infowars was not aggressively shut down years ago. Alex Jones is a one man argument for why people like him should be legalised against. He spreads nothing but disinformation and lies and has done incalcuable harm to the public discourse and to the grieving families of victims of school shootings. People like him should be either in jail or chased so far to the edges of society that it borders on impossible for their voice to be heard. He contributes nothing, not one positive thing, to the ongoing political debate in your country. So many things wrong with your post. How would you know what's in /r/The_Donald if you don't even "waste your time"? You're literally just regurgitating NPC leftist talking points from /r/pol spewed by their propaganda sources. You don't actually go there, or know what the people there are like, or engage with them to see what they really think. And if you did you would know everything you're saying is complete nonsense. Nobody gives a shit about Russia or Putin, for the most part. They certainly aren't showering him with praise, they just don't want the US to be unnecessarily hostile with one of the world's most dangerous superpowers. As for the shutting down "toxic, pointless debate when it affects the mainstream" first of all, that's authoritarian in it's OWN right. Toxic and pointless debates should not be squelched merely for being toxic or pointless. Second of all, who decides what is toxic or pointless? You? Tech media giants? you can find a dozen posts about russia or putin on T_D before you get to the second page. and even more post showering with praise. either you’re deliberately lying or you too have just no idea what youre talking about. You're literally just making that up. Nothing else to say besides that.
I just visited that subreddit for the first time in my life and a scrolled past about 100 posts (sorted by top.) I didn't see a single thing about Russia.
I don't know a lot about this, to but it took me a few mins to understand whether this was a sarcastic take on Trump supporters or the real thing. Not sure if that says something about them or something about me 🤷♂️
Edit: a few swipes later, I did find this: https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/9w4mnj/priceless_faces_of_world_leaders_receiving_despot/ -- what a time to be alive.
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On November 12 2018 03:41 Mohdoo wrote:
What should we be doing to prevent disasters like seen in California? With proper engineering resources, it can be 100% prevented. We can't prevent forest fires, but we can prevent fires from reaching a critical level.
This is wrong, the way the winds work around here it can be impossible to stop a fire before it becomes massive. Combine that with the mountainous terrain and you simply have to let large areas burn because you can't reach them. And the Santa Ana winds that help drive these fires make fighting them with aircraft more difficult. If you google earth Malibu, in particular, you see that the area behind the coastline is all hills, and the roads are narrow and winding.
https://google.org/crisismap/google.com/2018-Woolsey-fire
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On November 12 2018 05:33 mikedebo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2018 05:21 kmillz wrote:On November 12 2018 05:09 brian wrote:On November 12 2018 04:50 kmillz wrote:On November 11 2018 21:11 iamthedave wrote:
I think T_D is on the edge. It's fine for it to just be a place for the Trump fanclub to share their (inexplicable) love for the man, but it's very close to being a conspiracy theory breeding ground that's affecting the mainstream political sphere.
My perspective is coloured because I regularly browse r_pol, which is more left leaning but has articles very much of the same vein. The difference is that T_D often engages in outright falacious reporting and generation of conspiracy theories, while r_pol literally just discusses articles found from news websites, so while the posters there clearly lean liberal, they aren't affecting the public discourse or even really trying to.
If T_D had the same base structure only they focused on right wing news articles I wouldn't care in the slightest.
My problem with what Nettles said is the typical right wing problem where they don't seem to understand why censorship is being discussed in that instance, and why it's not a sign of authoritarianism. It's perfectly reasonable to shut down completely toxic, pointless political debate when that debate begins to affect the mainstream. T_D is hitting that threshold, because the WH has now shared doctored, fake footage that someone - presumably an intern - found there.
Relatedly, it is absurd that infowars was not aggressively shut down years ago. Alex Jones is a one man argument for why people like him should be legalised against. He spreads nothing but disinformation and lies and has done incalcuable harm to the public discourse and to the grieving families of victims of school shootings. People like him should be either in jail or chased so far to the edges of society that it borders on impossible for their voice to be heard. He contributes nothing, not one positive thing, to the ongoing political debate in your country. So many things wrong with your post. How would you know what's in /r/The_Donald if you don't even "waste your time"? You're literally just regurgitating NPC leftist talking points from /r/pol spewed by their propaganda sources. You don't actually go there, or know what the people there are like, or engage with them to see what they really think. And if you did you would know everything you're saying is complete nonsense. Nobody gives a shit about Russia or Putin, for the most part. They certainly aren't showering him with praise, they just don't want the US to be unnecessarily hostile with one of the world's most dangerous superpowers. As for the shutting down "toxic, pointless debate when it affects the mainstream" first of all, that's authoritarian in it's OWN right. Toxic and pointless debates should not be squelched merely for being toxic or pointless. Second of all, who decides what is toxic or pointless? You? Tech media giants? you can find a dozen posts about russia or putin on T_D before you get to the second page. and even more post showering with praise. either you’re deliberately lying or you too have just no idea what youre talking about. You're literally just making that up. Nothing else to say besides that. I just visited that subreddit for the first time in my life and a scrolled past about 100 posts (sorted by top.) I didn't see a single thing about Russia. I don't know a lot about this, to but it took me a few mins to understand whether this was a sarcastic take on Trump supporters or the real thing. Not sure if that says something about them or something about me 🤷♂️ Edit: a few swipes later, I did find this: https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/9w4mnj/priceless_faces_of_world_leaders_receiving_despot/ -- what a time to be alive.
Literally in that post is an upvoted post that said in response to someone asking if "we like Putin":
"No, Putin is a corrupt man who murders journalists and locks up his opposition on trumped up charges
He's also not the scourge of Islam some people want to paint him out to be. Putin used pro-Kremlin Chechen militias into Ukraine.
But that doesn't necessarily mean it's in our best interest to fight a proxy war against Russia in Syria. And a lot of the sanctions against Putin are just a nuisance so long as the EU keeps buying 1/3 of their oil and natural gas from Russia."
But yeah a sub that obsessively and constantly "praises Russia and Putin" would upvote this, mhm. Got it.
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On November 12 2018 05:53 kmillz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2018 05:33 mikedebo wrote:On November 12 2018 05:21 kmillz wrote:On November 12 2018 05:09 brian wrote:On November 12 2018 04:50 kmillz wrote:On November 11 2018 21:11 iamthedave wrote:
I think T_D is on the edge. It's fine for it to just be a place for the Trump fanclub to share their (inexplicable) love for the man, but it's very close to being a conspiracy theory breeding ground that's affecting the mainstream political sphere.
My perspective is coloured because I regularly browse r_pol, which is more left leaning but has articles very much of the same vein. The difference is that T_D often engages in outright falacious reporting and generation of conspiracy theories, while r_pol literally just discusses articles found from news websites, so while the posters there clearly lean liberal, they aren't affecting the public discourse or even really trying to.
If T_D had the same base structure only they focused on right wing news articles I wouldn't care in the slightest.
My problem with what Nettles said is the typical right wing problem where they don't seem to understand why censorship is being discussed in that instance, and why it's not a sign of authoritarianism. It's perfectly reasonable to shut down completely toxic, pointless political debate when that debate begins to affect the mainstream. T_D is hitting that threshold, because the WH has now shared doctored, fake footage that someone - presumably an intern - found there.
Relatedly, it is absurd that infowars was not aggressively shut down years ago. Alex Jones is a one man argument for why people like him should be legalised against. He spreads nothing but disinformation and lies and has done incalcuable harm to the public discourse and to the grieving families of victims of school shootings. People like him should be either in jail or chased so far to the edges of society that it borders on impossible for their voice to be heard. He contributes nothing, not one positive thing, to the ongoing political debate in your country. So many things wrong with your post. How would you know what's in /r/The_Donald if you don't even "waste your time"? You're literally just regurgitating NPC leftist talking points from /r/pol spewed by their propaganda sources. You don't actually go there, or know what the people there are like, or engage with them to see what they really think. And if you did you would know everything you're saying is complete nonsense. Nobody gives a shit about Russia or Putin, for the most part. They certainly aren't showering him with praise, they just don't want the US to be unnecessarily hostile with one of the world's most dangerous superpowers. As for the shutting down "toxic, pointless debate when it affects the mainstream" first of all, that's authoritarian in it's OWN right. Toxic and pointless debates should not be squelched merely for being toxic or pointless. Second of all, who decides what is toxic or pointless? You? Tech media giants? you can find a dozen posts about russia or putin on T_D before you get to the second page. and even more post showering with praise. either you’re deliberately lying or you too have just no idea what youre talking about. You're literally just making that up. Nothing else to say besides that. I just visited that subreddit for the first time in my life and a scrolled past about 100 posts (sorted by top.) I didn't see a single thing about Russia. I don't know a lot about this, to but it took me a few mins to understand whether this was a sarcastic take on Trump supporters or the real thing. Not sure if that says something about them or something about me 🤷♂️ Edit: a few swipes later, I did find this: https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/9w4mnj/priceless_faces_of_world_leaders_receiving_despot/ -- what a time to be alive. Literally in that post is an upvoted post that said in response to someone asking if "we like Putin": "No, Putin is a corrupt man who murders journalists and locks up his opposition on trumped up charges He's also not the scourge of Islam some people want to paint him out to be. Putin used pro-Kremlin Chechen militias into Ukraine. But that doesn't necessarily mean it's in our best interest to fight a proxy war against Russia in Syria. And a lot of the sanctions against Putin are just a nuisance so long as the EU keeps buying 1/3 of their oil and natural gas from Russia." But yeah a sub that obsessively and constantly "praises Russia and Putin" would upvote this, mhm. Got it.
Top comment, supported by "best" with over 100 upvotes is literally "Globalists hate him!"
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On November 12 2018 05:53 kmillz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2018 05:33 mikedebo wrote:On November 12 2018 05:21 kmillz wrote:On November 12 2018 05:09 brian wrote:On November 12 2018 04:50 kmillz wrote:On November 11 2018 21:11 iamthedave wrote:
I think T_D is on the edge. It's fine for it to just be a place for the Trump fanclub to share their (inexplicable) love for the man, but it's very close to being a conspiracy theory breeding ground that's affecting the mainstream political sphere.
My perspective is coloured because I regularly browse r_pol, which is more left leaning but has articles very much of the same vein. The difference is that T_D often engages in outright falacious reporting and generation of conspiracy theories, while r_pol literally just discusses articles found from news websites, so while the posters there clearly lean liberal, they aren't affecting the public discourse or even really trying to.
If T_D had the same base structure only they focused on right wing news articles I wouldn't care in the slightest.
My problem with what Nettles said is the typical right wing problem where they don't seem to understand why censorship is being discussed in that instance, and why it's not a sign of authoritarianism. It's perfectly reasonable to shut down completely toxic, pointless political debate when that debate begins to affect the mainstream. T_D is hitting that threshold, because the WH has now shared doctored, fake footage that someone - presumably an intern - found there.
Relatedly, it is absurd that infowars was not aggressively shut down years ago. Alex Jones is a one man argument for why people like him should be legalised against. He spreads nothing but disinformation and lies and has done incalcuable harm to the public discourse and to the grieving families of victims of school shootings. People like him should be either in jail or chased so far to the edges of society that it borders on impossible for their voice to be heard. He contributes nothing, not one positive thing, to the ongoing political debate in your country. So many things wrong with your post. How would you know what's in /r/The_Donald if you don't even "waste your time"? You're literally just regurgitating NPC leftist talking points from /r/pol spewed by their propaganda sources. You don't actually go there, or know what the people there are like, or engage with them to see what they really think. And if you did you would know everything you're saying is complete nonsense. Nobody gives a shit about Russia or Putin, for the most part. They certainly aren't showering him with praise, they just don't want the US to be unnecessarily hostile with one of the world's most dangerous superpowers. As for the shutting down "toxic, pointless debate when it affects the mainstream" first of all, that's authoritarian in it's OWN right. Toxic and pointless debates should not be squelched merely for being toxic or pointless. Second of all, who decides what is toxic or pointless? You? Tech media giants? you can find a dozen posts about russia or putin on T_D before you get to the second page. and even more post showering with praise. either you’re deliberately lying or you too have just no idea what youre talking about. You're literally just making that up. Nothing else to say besides that. I just visited that subreddit for the first time in my life and a scrolled past about 100 posts (sorted by top.) I didn't see a single thing about Russia. I don't know a lot about this, to but it took me a few mins to understand whether this was a sarcastic take on Trump supporters or the real thing. Not sure if that says something about them or something about me 🤷♂️ Edit: a few swipes later, I did find this: https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/9w4mnj/priceless_faces_of_world_leaders_receiving_despot/ -- what a time to be alive. Literally in that post is an upvoted post that said in response to someone asking if "we like Putin": "No, Putin is a corrupt man who murders journalists and locks up his opposition on trumped up charges He's also not the scourge of Islam some people want to paint him out to be. Putin used pro-Kremlin Chechen militias into Ukraine. But that doesn't necessarily mean it's in our best interest to fight a proxy war against Russia in Syria. And a lot of the sanctions against Putin are just a nuisance so long as the EU keeps buying 1/3 of their oil and natural gas from Russia." But yeah a sub that obsessively and constantly "praises Russia and Putin" would upvote this, mhm. Got it.
You basically found one post that's surrounded by:
"Trump and Putin are standing up to the globalists."
"Some of those <murdered and jailed journalists and opposition> are legit, but some of them are the same commie people that have infested this country and are trying to infest his country."
"He sure isn't as bad as the Satanists that have run our country."
"No we oppose global Communism. Unlike Merkel, Macron and most American progressives(global socialists). Putin opposes them also."
"Putin is a great man! Have you ever listened to his speeches? He is the man that revealed the world is run by Satanists. He protects Russian children. He doesn't allow gay propaganda taught in schools. I could go on and on. Oh yes, he is Christian leading a Christian country."
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Comparing Trump to Hitler, saying Trump is an existential threat to the United States and to democracy in general, claiming he is putting people in concentration camps, calling him a traitor, Putin's puppet, a Manchurian candidate, he's going to start WW3, Republicans are going to kill people by taking away their health care, Republicans want people to starve in the streets, Republicans want to put black people back in chains, Trump's base is deplorable, racist, bigoted, hateful, complicit... these do not motivate crazy people to shoot Republican Congressmen and Senators and so shouldn't be banned (despite these literally motivating a crazy person to shoot Republican Congressmen and Senators).
Saying Trump and Russian colluded to steal and election is not undermining the trust in elections and so it shouldn't be banned (despite this undermining trust in elections).
But right-wing talking points do have to be banned.
Sounds legit.
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You basically found one post that's surrounded by:
"Trump and Putin are standing up to the globalists."
Ok? This is accurate. They are.
"Some of those <murdered and jailed journalists and opposition> are legit, but some of them are the same commie people that have infested this country and are trying to infest his country."
You conveniently ignored the guy below who was literally upvoted more that said:
"I actually don't think Putin is as bad as the Chinese government or the Saudi royals but I feel no need make any excuses for him"
"He sure isn't as bad as the Satanists that have run our country."
This is hyperbole, but to an extent it is true. Our own government has done far more destruction to our rights than Russia has in the last few decades.
"No we oppose global Communism. Unlike Merkel, Macron and most American progressives(global socialists). Putin opposes them also."
This is a simple fact lmfao what are you complaining about? The end goal of globalists like Merkel and Macron is global wealth redistribution. That's why they wanted us in the TPP and the Paris Climate Accord. Thankfully we dodged those bullets.
"Putin is a great man! Have you ever listened to his speeches? He is the man that revealed the world is run by Satanists. He protects Russian children. He doesn't allow gay propaganda taught in schools. I could go on and on. Oh yes, he is Christian leading a Christian country."
ROFL and this post was in negative upvotes, real representative of viewpoints on The_Donald. Massive fail.
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On November 12 2018 07:55 kmillz wrote:This is hyperbole, but to an extent it is true. Our own government has done far more destruction to our rights than Russia has in the last few decades.
Are you seriously claiming that Putin's effect on the USA is the only relevant metric to judge him on?
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EPT
