|
Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread |
On August 30 2018 06:23 Liquid`Drone wrote:
of course if you add 'surprisingly' it has a different connotation because then there's an implication that you expected worse.
What if someone just doesn't know about the racial baggage of 'articulate'? I mean, I am european, so it's hard for me to claim expertise on all things american, but I didn't really know that 'articulate' is a word with racial baggage. To me, it's just a neutral word that you use to describe someone who is better at phrasing him or herself in a persuasive, coherent and understandable manner than what your average person is. It's basically 'eloquent-light' from my perspective - but for a politician who wants to reach as wide an audience as possible, being 'well-articulated' is sometimes even preferable to being 'eloquent'; eloquent implies that there's a beauty to the language used beyond simply conveying meaning.
Like, I get what you guys are saying. I'm not trying to argue that DeSantis didn't know what he was saying. I just think the plausible deniability is too obviously plausible for 'articulate', by itself, to function as a dog-whistle that should get much attention. When you say it in the same sentence as monkeying around, sure. But for me, it's very easy to accept plausible deniability when I know that I myself could genuinely make the same error.
Also, people can continue to use it for well-spoken people of all races and not worry about the crowd that sees dog whistle racism everywhere. (And I don’t know DeSantis particularly well for his use of language, in case he actually drops coded hints like some racist spy thriller)
|
On August 30 2018 06:53 ticklishmusic wrote:
So we've gone from "where's the birth certificate?" to "the birth certificate was forged!".
And we are going to detain you and deprive you of basic due process because you are brown. And we will tell no one where you are.
|
On August 30 2018 06:57 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2018 06:23 Liquid`Drone wrote:
of course if you add 'surprisingly' it has a different connotation because then there's an implication that you expected worse.
What if someone just doesn't know about the racial baggage of 'articulate'? I mean, I am european, so it's hard for me to claim expertise on all things american, but I didn't really know that 'articulate' is a word with racial baggage. To me, it's just a neutral word that you use to describe someone who is better at phrasing him or herself in a persuasive, coherent and understandable manner than what your average person is. It's basically 'eloquent-light' from my perspective - but for a politician who wants to reach as wide an audience as possible, being 'well-articulated' is sometimes even preferable to being 'eloquent'; eloquent implies that there's a beauty to the language used beyond simply conveying meaning.
Like, I get what you guys are saying. I'm not trying to argue that DeSantis didn't know what he was saying. I just think the plausible deniability is too obviously plausible for 'articulate', by itself, to function as a dog-whistle that should get much attention. When you say it in the same sentence as monkeying around, sure. But for me, it's very easy to accept plausible deniability when I know that I myself could genuinely make the same error. Also, people can continue to use it for well-spoken people of all races and not worry about the crowd that sees dog whistle racism everywhere. (And I don’t know DeSantis particularly well for his use of language, in case he actually drops coded hints like some racist spy thriller)
The fact that he drops two in a row doesn't make you think there might have been something more than a mistake going on?
|
On August 30 2018 06:36 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2018 06:33 Nebuchad wrote:On August 30 2018 06:18 Introvert wrote:
If he's a haedcore Trumper wouldn't we assume he already has the racist vote locked up? It makes no sense to say this is a dog whistle. He doesnt need the votes of those people anymore. In context it's pretty benign.
This is example 15354324747190 of Democrats finding racism literally anywhere, especially if it helps win elections.
Same people prob thought that hilarious DeSantis ad was serious instead of a joke. You treat this as if that was some sort of hindrance for him, it will absolutely benefit him. He is talked about, he gets to whine about the left calling him a racist just because he said some racist stuff, the horror, and he has enough "plausible" deniability to get away with it easily in the american climate. It was actually a pretty solid move from him, I genuinely believe that. Morally bankrupt, of course, but imagine my surprise. I've found our problem. I dont have much more time for it, unfortunately. But he used one monkey based saying out of however many we have. He could have used the phrase "monkey wrench" and prob still get labeled a racist. Like I said, it's a reflex.
"Monkey it up" Is not an expression I've ever heard before. Therefore, when someone says we're going to "monkey it up" by electing the black man who's running for office, it's very difficult to take it as anything other than referring to the black man as a monkey.
Yeah, we have lots of expressions with monkey in it. No, he didn't use any of them.
On August 30 2018 06:59 IyMoon wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2018 06:57 Danglars wrote:On August 30 2018 06:23 Liquid`Drone wrote:
of course if you add 'surprisingly' it has a different connotation because then there's an implication that you expected worse.
What if someone just doesn't know about the racial baggage of 'articulate'? I mean, I am european, so it's hard for me to claim expertise on all things american, but I didn't really know that 'articulate' is a word with racial baggage. To me, it's just a neutral word that you use to describe someone who is better at phrasing him or herself in a persuasive, coherent and understandable manner than what your average person is. It's basically 'eloquent-light' from my perspective - but for a politician who wants to reach as wide an audience as possible, being 'well-articulated' is sometimes even preferable to being 'eloquent'; eloquent implies that there's a beauty to the language used beyond simply conveying meaning.
Like, I get what you guys are saying. I'm not trying to argue that DeSantis didn't know what he was saying. I just think the plausible deniability is too obviously plausible for 'articulate', by itself, to function as a dog-whistle that should get much attention. When you say it in the same sentence as monkeying around, sure. But for me, it's very easy to accept plausible deniability when I know that I myself could genuinely make the same error. Also, people can continue to use it for well-spoken people of all races and not worry about the crowd that sees dog whistle racism everywhere. (And I don’t know DeSantis particularly well for his use of language, in case he actually drops coded hints like some racist spy thriller) The fact that he drops two in a row doesn't make you think there might have been something more than a mistake going on?
Lol, like it has to be "some racist spy thriller" for calling a black man a monkey to qualify as racism. The goal posts are ever shifting. Soon, getting caught in a white hood won't be enough.
|
On August 30 2018 06:59 IyMoon wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2018 06:57 Danglars wrote:On August 30 2018 06:23 Liquid`Drone wrote:
of course if you add 'surprisingly' it has a different connotation because then there's an implication that you expected worse.
What if someone just doesn't know about the racial baggage of 'articulate'? I mean, I am european, so it's hard for me to claim expertise on all things american, but I didn't really know that 'articulate' is a word with racial baggage. To me, it's just a neutral word that you use to describe someone who is better at phrasing him or herself in a persuasive, coherent and understandable manner than what your average person is. It's basically 'eloquent-light' from my perspective - but for a politician who wants to reach as wide an audience as possible, being 'well-articulated' is sometimes even preferable to being 'eloquent'; eloquent implies that there's a beauty to the language used beyond simply conveying meaning.
Like, I get what you guys are saying. I'm not trying to argue that DeSantis didn't know what he was saying. I just think the plausible deniability is too obviously plausible for 'articulate', by itself, to function as a dog-whistle that should get much attention. When you say it in the same sentence as monkeying around, sure. But for me, it's very easy to accept plausible deniability when I know that I myself could genuinely make the same error. Also, people can continue to use it for well-spoken people of all races and not worry about the crowd that sees dog whistle racism everywhere. (And I don’t know DeSantis particularly well for his use of language, in case he actually drops coded hints like some racist spy thriller) The fact that he drops two in a row doesn't make you think there might have been something more than a mistake going on?
I haven’t seen the tape and the structure of the quote marks does not imply “in a row.” If I talked about a long, hard pulsating ramrod, it’s entirely different than saying “hard” at the start of a speech and “long” at the end.
|
Norway28558 Posts
Well, for me, it's not that I don't 'get it', it's that I feel it's a) a losing fight that cements factions (some people use these phrases consciously, some people not. The ones who don't are offended by being called racists and end up allying with the group that doesn't call them racist. ) and b) it devolves into a fairly unimportant semantic discussion that detracts from the important issues.
I'm not gonna speak on behalf of black people, as I am as white as it gets. But I'm guessing black people would trade being called articulate for not being shot or jailed. I'm guessing there are substantial political differences in how DeSantis and Gillum deal with racial issues - this is what we want to highlight, not that DeSantis used a couple probably somewhat racist phrases. I know that it's not like, we have to choose one of the two and only do that one, but.. I mean, I think it's nice to raise awareness about these issues, too.. But I think we should be careful with describing people as racist when it's not obviously clear to everyone that it was racist because it's such an effective way of pushing away people that actually could be political supporters. A LOT of people are not even close to as conscious about the words they use as we are, or that we think they are.
I mean, when Rosanne Barr said that vj = planet of the apes crossed with muslim brotherhood or whatever, even hannity called her out. There was no issue there. This however, I mean, even if I agree 100% that it's a well executed dog whistle, then I don't think we really win politically by focusing on it.
|
Hmm yes nvm on 2nd thought.
Usa is so weird and polarized these days,better now get involved.
|
I will yield to the Americans in the forum and accept that while his interview sounds completely innocent to me as an outsider until he uses the word monkey, he probably intended articulate as a dogwhistle. History of words does matter and i don't know it of all of them  Maybe do not racially charge completely normal words next time, i don't want to get called a racist when i visit the country for complimenting someone. Like, "hey, nice scarf!" - "YOU MONSTER!"
|
On August 30 2018 07:00 NewSunshine wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2018 06:59 IyMoon wrote:On August 30 2018 06:57 Danglars wrote:On August 30 2018 06:23 Liquid`Drone wrote:
of course if you add 'surprisingly' it has a different connotation because then there's an implication that you expected worse.
What if someone just doesn't know about the racial baggage of 'articulate'? I mean, I am european, so it's hard for me to claim expertise on all things american, but I didn't really know that 'articulate' is a word with racial baggage. To me, it's just a neutral word that you use to describe someone who is better at phrasing him or herself in a persuasive, coherent and understandable manner than what your average person is. It's basically 'eloquent-light' from my perspective - but for a politician who wants to reach as wide an audience as possible, being 'well-articulated' is sometimes even preferable to being 'eloquent'; eloquent implies that there's a beauty to the language used beyond simply conveying meaning.
Like, I get what you guys are saying. I'm not trying to argue that DeSantis didn't know what he was saying. I just think the plausible deniability is too obviously plausible for 'articulate', by itself, to function as a dog-whistle that should get much attention. When you say it in the same sentence as monkeying around, sure. But for me, it's very easy to accept plausible deniability when I know that I myself could genuinely make the same error. Also, people can continue to use it for well-spoken people of all races and not worry about the crowd that sees dog whistle racism everywhere. (And I don’t know DeSantis particularly well for his use of language, in case he actually drops coded hints like some racist spy thriller) The fact that he drops two in a row doesn't make you think there might have been something more than a mistake going on? Lol, like it has to be "some racist spy thriller" for calling a black man a monkey to qualify as racism. The goal posts are ever shifting. Soon, getting caught in a white hood won't be enough.
It's a little surprising how fast saying "Florida shouldn't monkey this up" turned into "calling a black man a monkey."
I'm pretty pessimistic on the future Democratic race-baiting in America, but sometimes I'm shocked.
|
On August 30 2018 07:14 Broetchenholer wrote:I will yield to the Americans in the forum and accept that while his interview sounds completely innocent to me as an outsider until he uses the word monkey, he probably intended articulate as a dogwhistle. History of words does matter and i don't know it of all of them Maybe do not racially charge completely normal words next time, i don't want to get called a racist when i visit the country for complimenting someone. Like, "hey, nice scarf!" - "YOU MONSTER!"
it is indeed annoying when such words get charged; but the good amongst us can't choose what the bad use for code words.
|
On August 30 2018 07:28 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2018 07:00 NewSunshine wrote:On August 30 2018 06:59 IyMoon wrote:On August 30 2018 06:57 Danglars wrote:On August 30 2018 06:23 Liquid`Drone wrote:
of course if you add 'surprisingly' it has a different connotation because then there's an implication that you expected worse.
What if someone just doesn't know about the racial baggage of 'articulate'? I mean, I am european, so it's hard for me to claim expertise on all things american, but I didn't really know that 'articulate' is a word with racial baggage. To me, it's just a neutral word that you use to describe someone who is better at phrasing him or herself in a persuasive, coherent and understandable manner than what your average person is. It's basically 'eloquent-light' from my perspective - but for a politician who wants to reach as wide an audience as possible, being 'well-articulated' is sometimes even preferable to being 'eloquent'; eloquent implies that there's a beauty to the language used beyond simply conveying meaning.
Like, I get what you guys are saying. I'm not trying to argue that DeSantis didn't know what he was saying. I just think the plausible deniability is too obviously plausible for 'articulate', by itself, to function as a dog-whistle that should get much attention. When you say it in the same sentence as monkeying around, sure. But for me, it's very easy to accept plausible deniability when I know that I myself could genuinely make the same error. Also, people can continue to use it for well-spoken people of all races and not worry about the crowd that sees dog whistle racism everywhere. (And I don’t know DeSantis particularly well for his use of language, in case he actually drops coded hints like some racist spy thriller) The fact that he drops two in a row doesn't make you think there might have been something more than a mistake going on? Lol, like it has to be "some racist spy thriller" for calling a black man a monkey to qualify as racism. The goal posts are ever shifting. Soon, getting caught in a white hood won't be enough. It's a little surprising how fast saying "Florida shouldn't monkey this up" turned into "calling a black man a monkey." I'm pretty pessimistic on the future Democratic race-baiting in America, but sometimes I'm shocked.
Are you implying that it couldn't be racist, you dont think it was racist, or that we cant be sure it was racist? For me i return to the notion that "monkey this up" is not a thing people say. Of all the things he could have used to describe a "messed up situation" one must wonder why he choose that one.
Still waiting for proof he uses this all the time from his campaign. If he is a public figure who gives a lot of speeches it should be somewhere. I didn't have a unique problem with Trump calling Omarosa a dog because there is evidence he uses that term for a lot of people, males and whites included.
|
On August 30 2018 07:28 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2018 07:00 NewSunshine wrote:On August 30 2018 06:59 IyMoon wrote:On August 30 2018 06:57 Danglars wrote:On August 30 2018 06:23 Liquid`Drone wrote:
of course if you add 'surprisingly' it has a different connotation because then there's an implication that you expected worse.
What if someone just doesn't know about the racial baggage of 'articulate'? I mean, I am european, so it's hard for me to claim expertise on all things american, but I didn't really know that 'articulate' is a word with racial baggage. To me, it's just a neutral word that you use to describe someone who is better at phrasing him or herself in a persuasive, coherent and understandable manner than what your average person is. It's basically 'eloquent-light' from my perspective - but for a politician who wants to reach as wide an audience as possible, being 'well-articulated' is sometimes even preferable to being 'eloquent'; eloquent implies that there's a beauty to the language used beyond simply conveying meaning.
Like, I get what you guys are saying. I'm not trying to argue that DeSantis didn't know what he was saying. I just think the plausible deniability is too obviously plausible for 'articulate', by itself, to function as a dog-whistle that should get much attention. When you say it in the same sentence as monkeying around, sure. But for me, it's very easy to accept plausible deniability when I know that I myself could genuinely make the same error. Also, people can continue to use it for well-spoken people of all races and not worry about the crowd that sees dog whistle racism everywhere. (And I don’t know DeSantis particularly well for his use of language, in case he actually drops coded hints like some racist spy thriller) The fact that he drops two in a row doesn't make you think there might have been something more than a mistake going on? Lol, like it has to be "some racist spy thriller" for calling a black man a monkey to qualify as racism. The goal posts are ever shifting. Soon, getting caught in a white hood won't be enough. It's a little surprising how fast saying "Florida shouldn't monkey this up" turned into "calling a black man a monkey." I'm pretty pessimistic on the future Democratic race-baiting in America, but sometimes I'm shocked.
He's saying "Florida shouldn't monkey this up [by electing the black opponent, using an uncommon turn of phrase with one of the oldest applicable slurs in it]". This is a political candidate too, they get a bit less leeway on understanding the impact of how they communicate.
|
On August 30 2018 06:37 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2018 06:32 Introvert wrote:On August 30 2018 06:28 Plansix wrote:On August 30 2018 06:18 Introvert wrote:
If he's a haedcore Trumper wouldn't we assume he already has the racist vote locked up? It makes no sense to say this is a dog whistle. He doesnt need the votes of those people anymore. In context it's pretty benign.
This is example 15354324747190 of Democrats finding racism literally anywhere, especially if it helps win elections.
Same people prob thought that hilarious DeSantis ad was serious instead of a joke. Gotta juice that racist turn out and get out the vote of people who don’t like black people and don’t think they should be governor. Especially the low key “I like it when black men play football, but they need to keep their helmets on” suburban racist that will have a real problem with a black man as governor. Tap into those underlying feelings of racist and justify their existence as valid. That middle class dad is going to be a critical vote for this guy. Seriously, you do know racism helps win elections right? You do know those aren't the people he needs, right? You can shout turnout but that's not all there is. I'd think having a black man all over TV celebrating his surprise victory would be enough, not 1 second on Fox News. That isn't really how low key, "I voted for Obama twice" unconscious racist make decisions. This isn't KKK member racism. This is the family that loses their god damn minds when the integrating schools busing program is passed. Those voters need the subtle, dog whistle approach. The reality is that folks should avoid using the word "monkey" in relation to black folks. Especially in a charged discussion, like politics. That is why we are even talking about this. Claiming it couldn't possibly racist really means that the man needs to drop N-bombs on tape before we can even start talking about racism.
Reminds me of how people were saying barely any Nazis were at Charleston because they only saw a couple swastikas - as if that's the only way to spot them is by looking for the Nazi bat symbol.
|
On August 30 2018 07:09 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2018 06:59 IyMoon wrote:On August 30 2018 06:57 Danglars wrote:On August 30 2018 06:23 Liquid`Drone wrote:
of course if you add 'surprisingly' it has a different connotation because then there's an implication that you expected worse.
What if someone just doesn't know about the racial baggage of 'articulate'? I mean, I am european, so it's hard for me to claim expertise on all things american, but I didn't really know that 'articulate' is a word with racial baggage. To me, it's just a neutral word that you use to describe someone who is better at phrasing him or herself in a persuasive, coherent and understandable manner than what your average person is. It's basically 'eloquent-light' from my perspective - but for a politician who wants to reach as wide an audience as possible, being 'well-articulated' is sometimes even preferable to being 'eloquent'; eloquent implies that there's a beauty to the language used beyond simply conveying meaning.
Like, I get what you guys are saying. I'm not trying to argue that DeSantis didn't know what he was saying. I just think the plausible deniability is too obviously plausible for 'articulate', by itself, to function as a dog-whistle that should get much attention. When you say it in the same sentence as monkeying around, sure. But for me, it's very easy to accept plausible deniability when I know that I myself could genuinely make the same error. Also, people can continue to use it for well-spoken people of all races and not worry about the crowd that sees dog whistle racism everywhere. (And I don’t know DeSantis particularly well for his use of language, in case he actually drops coded hints like some racist spy thriller) The fact that he drops two in a row doesn't make you think there might have been something more than a mistake going on? I haven’t seen the tape and the structure of the quote marks does not imply “in a row.” If I talked about a long, hard pulsating ramrod, it’s entirely different than saying “hard” at the start of a speech and “long” at the end.
It's 1 minute long. You've taken way more time trying to defend the position than if u'd just seen the tape.
Also I believe some people don't know what an actual dogwhistle is (how it works) and therefore what it means in the new adapted form
|
On August 30 2018 07:43 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2018 06:37 Plansix wrote:On August 30 2018 06:32 Introvert wrote:On August 30 2018 06:28 Plansix wrote:On August 30 2018 06:18 Introvert wrote:
If he's a haedcore Trumper wouldn't we assume he already has the racist vote locked up? It makes no sense to say this is a dog whistle. He doesnt need the votes of those people anymore. In context it's pretty benign.
This is example 15354324747190 of Democrats finding racism literally anywhere, especially if it helps win elections.
Same people prob thought that hilarious DeSantis ad was serious instead of a joke. Gotta juice that racist turn out and get out the vote of people who don’t like black people and don’t think they should be governor. Especially the low key “I like it when black men play football, but they need to keep their helmets on” suburban racist that will have a real problem with a black man as governor. Tap into those underlying feelings of racist and justify their existence as valid. That middle class dad is going to be a critical vote for this guy. Seriously, you do know racism helps win elections right? You do know those aren't the people he needs, right? You can shout turnout but that's not all there is. I'd think having a black man all over TV celebrating his surprise victory would be enough, not 1 second on Fox News. That isn't really how low key, "I voted for Obama twice" unconscious racist make decisions. This isn't KKK member racism. This is the family that loses their god damn minds when the integrating schools busing program is passed. Those voters need the subtle, dog whistle approach. The reality is that folks should avoid using the word "monkey" in relation to black folks. Especially in a charged discussion, like politics. That is why we are even talking about this. Claiming it couldn't possibly racist really means that the man needs to drop N-bombs on tape before we can even start talking about racism. Reminds me of how people were saying barely any Nazis were at Charleston because they only saw a couple swastikas - as if that's the only way to spot them is by looking for the Nazi bat symbol.
I looked at that part of the old thread recently. The same folks were doing the same dance, even after someone was killed. Racist aren’t a problem, even when they march down the street screaming they are racist and kill someone. It’s just fine people and a few bad eggs.
|
I would have loved to be there when they crafted the dogwhistle with his team before the interview. The decision to put two in a row like this because the base was definitely going to back them anyway must have been an interesting decision to take.
|
On August 30 2018 07:40 On_Slaught wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2018 07:28 Danglars wrote:On August 30 2018 07:00 NewSunshine wrote:On August 30 2018 06:59 IyMoon wrote:On August 30 2018 06:57 Danglars wrote:On August 30 2018 06:23 Liquid`Drone wrote:
of course if you add 'surprisingly' it has a different connotation because then there's an implication that you expected worse.
What if someone just doesn't know about the racial baggage of 'articulate'? I mean, I am european, so it's hard for me to claim expertise on all things american, but I didn't really know that 'articulate' is a word with racial baggage. To me, it's just a neutral word that you use to describe someone who is better at phrasing him or herself in a persuasive, coherent and understandable manner than what your average person is. It's basically 'eloquent-light' from my perspective - but for a politician who wants to reach as wide an audience as possible, being 'well-articulated' is sometimes even preferable to being 'eloquent'; eloquent implies that there's a beauty to the language used beyond simply conveying meaning.
Like, I get what you guys are saying. I'm not trying to argue that DeSantis didn't know what he was saying. I just think the plausible deniability is too obviously plausible for 'articulate', by itself, to function as a dog-whistle that should get much attention. When you say it in the same sentence as monkeying around, sure. But for me, it's very easy to accept plausible deniability when I know that I myself could genuinely make the same error. Also, people can continue to use it for well-spoken people of all races and not worry about the crowd that sees dog whistle racism everywhere. (And I don’t know DeSantis particularly well for his use of language, in case he actually drops coded hints like some racist spy thriller) The fact that he drops two in a row doesn't make you think there might have been something more than a mistake going on? Lol, like it has to be "some racist spy thriller" for calling a black man a monkey to qualify as racism. The goal posts are ever shifting. Soon, getting caught in a white hood won't be enough. It's a little surprising how fast saying "Florida shouldn't monkey this up" turned into "calling a black man a monkey." I'm pretty pessimistic on the future Democratic race-baiting in America, but sometimes I'm shocked. Are you implying that it couldn't be racist, you dont think it was racist, or that we cant be sure it was racist? For me i return to the notion that "monkey this up" is not a thing people say. Of all the things he could have used to describe a "messed up situation" one must wonder why he choose that one. Still waiting for proof he uses this all the time from his campaign. If he is a public figure who gives a lot of speeches it should be somewhere. I didn't have a unique problem with Trump calling Omarosa a dog because there is evidence he uses that term for a lot of people, males and whites included.
I'm implying that saying "Florida shouldn't monkey this up" cannot honestly be compared to "calling a black man a monkey."
Now, if you want a society where "She looked cute in that dress" is reported as "he called that woman a whore," then by all means continue. I'm surprised by the pushback on this.
On August 30 2018 07:43 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2018 07:28 Danglars wrote:On August 30 2018 07:00 NewSunshine wrote:On August 30 2018 06:59 IyMoon wrote:On August 30 2018 06:57 Danglars wrote:On August 30 2018 06:23 Liquid`Drone wrote:
of course if you add 'surprisingly' it has a different connotation because then there's an implication that you expected worse.
What if someone just doesn't know about the racial baggage of 'articulate'? I mean, I am european, so it's hard for me to claim expertise on all things american, but I didn't really know that 'articulate' is a word with racial baggage. To me, it's just a neutral word that you use to describe someone who is better at phrasing him or herself in a persuasive, coherent and understandable manner than what your average person is. It's basically 'eloquent-light' from my perspective - but for a politician who wants to reach as wide an audience as possible, being 'well-articulated' is sometimes even preferable to being 'eloquent'; eloquent implies that there's a beauty to the language used beyond simply conveying meaning.
Like, I get what you guys are saying. I'm not trying to argue that DeSantis didn't know what he was saying. I just think the plausible deniability is too obviously plausible for 'articulate', by itself, to function as a dog-whistle that should get much attention. When you say it in the same sentence as monkeying around, sure. But for me, it's very easy to accept plausible deniability when I know that I myself could genuinely make the same error. Also, people can continue to use it for well-spoken people of all races and not worry about the crowd that sees dog whistle racism everywhere. (And I don’t know DeSantis particularly well for his use of language, in case he actually drops coded hints like some racist spy thriller) The fact that he drops two in a row doesn't make you think there might have been something more than a mistake going on? Lol, like it has to be "some racist spy thriller" for calling a black man a monkey to qualify as racism. The goal posts are ever shifting. Soon, getting caught in a white hood won't be enough. It's a little surprising how fast saying "Florida shouldn't monkey this up" turned into "calling a black man a monkey." I'm pretty pessimistic on the future Democratic race-baiting in America, but sometimes I'm shocked. He's saying "Florida shouldn't monkey this up [by electing the black opponent, using an uncommon turn of phrase with one of the oldest applicable slurs in it]". This is a political candidate too, they get a bit less leeway on understanding the impact of how they communicate.
I think you're monkeying up the quote and turning [I think he implies this] into [he called a black man a monkey and it's weird that it shouldn't qualify as racism]. Re-read NewSunshine's quote.
|
You know who is really good at monkeying things up?
Monkeys.
Implying that electing a black candidate would monkey things up does imply he would be good at monkeying. Like a monkey.
|
5930 Posts
What the hell does monkeying up even mean. Wildly playful or mischievous behavior if we take Merriam Webster's definition? Give me that Governor if that's the case.
That's why this is a dog whistle and not some guy screaming racial slurs from the top of his lungs.
|
I would say the same thing about a white man monkey'ing things up. Stop seeing monkeys in black people Plansix.
Edit: and in the end, we're all monkeys anyway, so why even bother with it at all.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
