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On August 25 2018 07:14 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2018 07:08 Broetchenholer wrote:
I don't think this will work. As Simberto has already posted, the civil service was highly dreaded by every young man in germany.I would think that more women did a social year then men actually wanted to do civil service. Most people simply dodged both by the ways he already listed, only those stubborn or lazy went through with civil service. The problem was that the number of jobs that were actually desirable were really low. There was one part where you were an assistant groundkeper, one in medical care as cheap buffer for nurses and one in youth clubs and one in social institutions. None of those were appealing to anyone, with a very small amount of jobs where you actually could have fun and some insight. The learning was done by having to do them anyway. If you had actually had choice in the matter, no one had bothered. Might be different as well because germany has a long tradition of relativey high acceptance craftman education. Who doesn't study has a good option in learning an actual craft and start working with 18 or 19 (i think). As far as i know, the States don't have those everyoe can call himself an electrician. Maybe you need to simply stengthen this sector of the industry? Before I shipped out to Okinawa, I had to make a list of my most desireable locales. East coast, west coast, or overseas. Why not have the same? Choose 5 jobs/professions from the list and we'll try to fit you into your most desired one. Now, some might have to be "forced" into a service they don't like, but if you do it summer of freshman year, then you have 3 more chances to get that. Otherwise, you have one shitty year. That doesn't seem that bad at all, when you think about it. If america wants to stay "exceptional", we need everyone doing their part and taking those jobs that may suck. Even if only for a little while.
Just to clarify, the german civil service (when it still existed) didn't just give you a job that you needed to do. They said "You need to do civil service, find a job that qualifies". You had to find a civil service job on your own. It wasn't that hard, as civil service people were basically incredibly cheap labour, so it was attractive enough to take you even if you didn't look like a very competent person.
I honestly don't actually know what would happen if you didn't get a job, but i am certain that there were systems in place to deal with that.
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I think it would work. Tax write off for businesses that take the students. Students learn something. Jobs that need doing, get done. It all works out for everyone except the feds since they'll be a lot of underwriting to cover costs. But like I said, downsize the military.
Either way, it is just a thought. I'm more glad we had a few pages of little trump discussion and focused on something different for once.
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If the learning experience was truly worth it, it wouldn't need to be enforced at all; people would be paying for the learning experience all by themselves, just as before the advent of universal education, the only people who could get an education only did so through good fortune or could afford to pay for it. Cheap enforced labour sounds more like the reality.
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On August 26 2018 06:43 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
If the learning experience was truly worth it, it wouldn't need to be enforced at all; people would be paying for the learning experience all by themselves, just as before the advent of universal education, the only people who could get an education only did so through good fortune or could afford to pay for it. Cheap enforced labour sounds more like the reality.
Agreed. But it has to start somewhere right? A lot of the time, in my opinion, people don't know they need something until it is offered. Why not this? I'm sure a collective of minds could figure out the policy and get an initiative going. Still don't know who should champion it though.
I was gifted this in PM. Probably a better solution thn what I've offered.
www.cbpp.org
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A guaranteed job at non-poverty wages? To put that into perspective it advocates $11.83 minimum wage. Includes additional expenditures of $10,000 per fulltime worker per year to provide adequate health insurance and benefits. (Full time appears to be to be paid for 2080 hours in a year or 40 hr a week.) To put that into perspective, USA currently cannot even guarantee that a non-guaranteed job even have livable wages. I would imagine that the same forces arrayed against raising a minimum wage to livable wage would be against a guaranteed job. The policy does not even go into the actual job done either. What happens when a physically and mentally undesirable person wants such a guaranteed job? Not to say it's a good or bad idea, I quite partial to the general idea, but it has no relation to an enforced public service; it's basically the opposite.
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On August 26 2018 04:34 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
Either way, it is just a thought. I'm more glad we had a few pages of little trump discussion and focused on something different for once.
I feel like there should be a separate thread for the Trump investigation, given that it’s clearly separate from policy and only slightly related to campaigning. Personally I skip over every post that uses the words Russia, Manafort, Cohen, Stormy Daniels etc.
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Historically, the business community was opposed to a full employment because it would reduce their bargaining power over labor, that’s why they would conspire to influence monetary policy related to conjecture and inflation and so on. But supposedly the US has something close to full employment already, while wages have remained chronically low, but this is because labor has been atomized and has no institutional power left, and can not bargain for higher wages.
That’s the theory, afaik. It would be interesting to check whether unemployment is higher or lower in cities that have implemented the 15$ minimum wage,
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On August 26 2018 07:15 Grumbels wrote:
Historically, the business community was opposed to a full employment because it would reduce their bargaining power over labor, that’s why they would conspire to influence monetary policy related to conjecture and inflation and so on.
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Really? Are there documented cases of the business community conspiring to increase unemployment? I'm honestly asking because I find it a little hard to believe.
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On August 26 2018 07:54 warding wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2018 07:15 Grumbels wrote:
Historically, the business community was opposed to a full employment because it would reduce their bargaining power over labor, that’s why they would conspire to influence monetary policy related to conjecture and inflation and so on.
. Really? Are there documented cases of the business community conspiring to increase unemployment? I'm honestly asking because I find it a little hard to believe.
I picked it up from these sort of articles:
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2018/05/political-aspects-of-full-employment-kalecki-job-guarantee
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2018/05/full-employment-humphrey-hawkins-inflation-jobs-guarantee
It’s mostly about interest rates and goverment spending. It’s alleged that right wing economic advisers conveniently always give advice that leads to higher unemployment. Historically US unemployment is like 7%? It probably could be lower if there was policy designed to address this. As an example, I believe many European countries have higher labor participation rate than the US.
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On August 26 2018 07:15 Grumbels wrote:
Historically, the business community was opposed to a full employment because it would reduce their bargaining power over labor, that’s why they would conspire to influence monetary policy related to conjecture and inflation and so on. But supposedly the US has something close to full employment already, while wages have remained chronically low, but this is because labor has been atomized and has no institutional power left, and can not bargain for higher wages.
That’s the theory, afaik. It would be interesting to check whether unemployment is higher or lower in cities that have implemented the 15$ minimum wage,
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at least a fair portion of the reason wages have been stagnating is because of changes over time in the labor force participation rate.
From what I've read there are also some bargaining power effects, and I agree those also contribute a portion.
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On August 26 2018 08:24 Grumbels wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2018 07:54 warding wrote:On August 26 2018 07:15 Grumbels wrote:
Historically, the business community was opposed to a full employment because it would reduce their bargaining power over labor, that’s why they would conspire to influence monetary policy related to conjecture and inflation and so on.
. Really? Are there documented cases of the business community conspiring to increase unemployment? I'm honestly asking because I find it a little hard to believe. I picked it up from these sort of articles: https://www.jacobinmag.com/2018/05/political-aspects-of-full-employment-kalecki-job-guaranteehttps://www.jacobinmag.com/2018/05/full-employment-humphrey-hawkins-inflation-jobs-guaranteeIt’s mostly about interest rates and goverment spending. It’s alleged that right wing economic advisers conveniently always give advice that leads to higher unemployment. Historically US unemployment is like 7%? It probably could be lower if there was policy designed to address this. As an example, I believe many European countries have higher labor participation rate than the US.
hmm, looking up the labor participation rates, I'm seeing a bit different numbers from different sources.
Many o fthem show US labor participation rates being about the same as in Europe. there is of course some country by country variation, but the major ones trend to be around the US level, and not significantly higher. They average a bit lower. And they also have higher unemployment rates iirc.
what sources are you using for Euro country labor participation rate?
I was using world bank for what seemed the best source
https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SL.TLF.CACT.ZS
results looked somewhat different using OECD data though, those match what you describe more.
which specific stats are you looking at?
edit: perusing further, it seems to depend on whether one uses the age 15-64 bracket; or the ages 15+ bracket.
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interesting article, though I can't find cites in it that specify the data sources.
It's also comparing to nordics only, not europe in general.
The europe in general data look a fair bit different from the nordic data, as far as I can tell.
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John mccain died from his brain cancer today. I looked up to him a lot growing up as a model republican. While my political viewpoint has grown more complex from then his impact in modern US politics is undeniable. A true american hero that suffered greatly in vietnam yet was able to forgive them and become the lead in the nations new friendship with vietnam.
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McCain has passed away. On mobile but I’m assuming the seat will stay empty until Nov?
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Sad to see John McCain die, he was truly an important conservative voice in modern history.
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I didn't see him going right after giving up treatment. His reasoning will be missed in this new GOP.
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good riddance to war criminals
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On August 26 2018 10:10 ShoCkeyy wrote:
McCain has passed away. On mobile but I’m assuming the seat will stay empty until Nov?
iirc the gov appoints a replacement who will serve until 2020. For there to be a special election for his seat he would have had to have left it a few months ago.
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Also, a good time to promote this piece on McCain. Note that he volunteered for napalm bombing missions on Vietnamese farmers in hopes of career advancement. Also note that he has been a strong supporter of American military adventure, including the Iraq war but virtually everything beyond that. And for much of his political career he has cozied up to the far-right. And by all accounts he was a narcissistic, contemptible person who was unqualified for all the jobs handed to him due to his family connections.
The only people that will mourn him are anyone gullible enough to believe in the media myth about him of the great maverick.
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/john-mccain-make-believe-maverick-202004/
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EPT
