EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 647
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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
KwarK
United States44361 Posts
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28906 Posts
also I think people are celebrating him even more just to stick it to trump. | ||
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micronesia
United States24803 Posts
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37118 Posts
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Grumbels
Netherlands7032 Posts
On August 26 2018 11:25 Liquid`Drone wrote: it's possible to recognize someone's positive and negative qualities at the same time, and to choose to highlight their positive ones at the time of the person's death. also I think people are celebrating him even more just to stick it to trump. Yeah, maybe when a relative passes away. But when one of the, say, top ten people most responsible for the Iraq war dies (about a million deaths), who has been a public figure his entire life, I prefer to be critical. The demand to avoid criticism is itself highly political. Imagine if Hitler died and all the media said: this is not the time for cheering, we mourn the loss of a family man etc. The legacy of John McCain is one of ineptitude, corruption and military destruction. And at least when Kissinger and Cheney die the press (probably?) won’t be as sycophantic as they will likely be in this case. | ||
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micronesia
United States24803 Posts
On August 26 2018 11:34 Grumbels wrote: prefer to be critical. There is a difference between being critical in response to an obituary, and responding to it with a one liner that says 'good riddance.' Nothing wrong with helping people realize there's more to the story than simply a perfect American hero, but your fist post was very questionable. edit: I should clarify that I too personally think people should stick to saying positive things (or nothing) immediately after someone dies like this, but that's etiquette and decency, not policy and rules. | ||
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Grettin
42417 Posts
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Grumbels
Netherlands7032 Posts
On August 26 2018 11:33 Seeker wrote: A reminder to everyone that John McCain passing does not mean that you get a free pass to insult him and say whatever you want. If you have nothing good to say, then please just don't say anything at all. https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/9abii6/megathread_sen_john_mccain_passes_away/ Look at the comments there and tell me this sort of moderation policy isn’t whitewashing. Anyone reading it would get the impression McCain was some sort of great hero and statesman, which is surely a subjective opinion and not objective fact. In my view, the right time to criticize someone like McCain is after his death, simply because that is when he is in the news and that is when all the hagiography obscuring his dark sides is poduced. For there to be additional moderation policy that would specifically discourage any invective is to take a particular political stance. — (Also, personally, I find almost unbearably annoying the liberals in such comment threads as the one linked who equate McCain’s vague opposition to Trump with some sort of heroic stance, and who feel the need to contrast his bravery and independence with Trump just after his death. To me that’s much more disrespectful than just outright loathing someone. ) User was warned for this post. | ||
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Grumbels
Netherlands7032 Posts
On August 26 2018 11:51 micronesia wrote: There is a difference between being critical in response to an obituary, and responding to it with a one liner that says 'good riddance.' Nothing wrong with helping people realize there's more to the story than simply a perfect American hero, but your fist post was very questionable. edit: I should clarify that I too personally think people should stick to saying positive things (or nothing) immediately after someone dies like this, but that's etiquette and decency, not policy and rules. Meh, I specifically made such a comment in order to derail what I feared would be pages of positive one-liners. It’s just for balance. *shrug* But this is the last I’ll say about it. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On August 26 2018 11:33 Seeker wrote: A reminder to everyone that John McCain passing does not mean that you get a free pass to insult him and say whatever you want. If you have nothing good to say, then please just don't say anything at all. I just want to thank this kind of guidance. It's too easy to jump in with cheap political jeers on a somber moment for the other side, as happened in the last thread on Phyllis Schlafly's passing. | ||
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hooketyler615
1 Post
User was banned for this post. | ||
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Grumbels
Netherlands7032 Posts
On August 26 2018 12:09 Grumbels wrote: https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/9abii6/megathread_sen_john_mccain_passes_away/ Look at the comments there and tell me this sort of moderation policy isn’t whitewashing. Anyone reading it would get the impression McCain was some sort of great hero and statesman, which is surely a subjective opinion and not objective fact. In my view, the right time to criticize someone like McCain is after his death, simply because that is when he is in the news and that is when all the hagiography obscuring his dark sides is poduced. For there to be additional moderation policy that would specifically discourage any invective is to take a particular political stance. — (Also, personally, I find almost unbearably annoying the liberals in such comment threads as the one linked who equate McCain’s vague opposition to Trump with some sort of heroic stance, and who feel the need to contrast his bravery and independence with Trump just after his death. To me that’s much more disrespectful than just outright loathing someone. ) User was warned for this post. On August 26 2018 17:22 Hondelul wrote: Minutes, 4:33 CEST and 5:09 CEST. Condolences to his the wife and children. Oh, you're right. I thought I was warned for the other post, since after I posted that one I noticed it was made a few seconds after Seeker's comment. It's a bit tricky to keep track of it on mobile. I thought I shouldn't bother to edit it. And honestly, there is nothing in the other post I made which breaks Seeker's announced policy, since in that post I specifically avoided commenting on McCain and only on the media reaction to his story. And another mod in the same page said that there is no policy against criticism to begin with, it's only a matter of etiquette. So it still strikes me as high-handed on TL's part. Maybe this is something I should complain about in a TL moderation thread, but I guess it's still related to politics. I also think it's silly that me voicing a, frankly, standard leftwing opinion on McCain is considered anathema. If you want to know what the most prominent leftwing sub on reddit thinks of McCain, they just made a sticked post that says "Bye Bitch" and they made jokes about him crashing planes into heaven, or being waited on in heaven by Vietnamese rice farmers he murdered etc. I understand if that sort of derision is banned, but not allowing any criticism at all is just overreach, honestly. Also, I want to promote this comment which basically voices my views on McCain’s death. https://soundcloud.com/citationsneeded/news-brief-dont-let-the-media-erase-mccains-far-right-legacy | ||
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Hondelul
1999 Posts
On August 26 2018 16:49 Grumbels wrote: @Seeker, I posted that message 30 seconds after your warning appeared in the thread, I couldn’t possibly have seen that, but whatever. Minutes, 4:33 CEST and 5:09 CEST. Condolences to his the wife and children. | ||
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Ghostcom
Denmark4783 Posts
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iamthedave
England2814 Posts
In the same way that I'm sure Democrats won't be too happy if GreenHorizons or the conservatives were to post 'ding dong the witch is dead' when Hilary passes, liberals shouldn't bag on McCain. Everyone in this thread I think is well aware of his ups and downs. He struck me as a fairly principled man, whether or not I agree with his principles. I'll always remember his awful Presidential campaign... and I'll also remember him giving the thumbs down on Trump in such a way as to take a bullet for his younger colleagues who were also dissenting. | ||
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Grumbels
Netherlands7032 Posts
This is how NBC brought the news, speaking of respect to the dead. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46499 Posts
I definitely wasn't a fan of his political agenda, but the past few years have given me much more insight as to what worse Republicans look like. If nothing else, he has my respect for at least three things: 1. Defending our country as a naval aviator. He has more bravery in his little finger than Donald Trump will ever have. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_life_and_military_career_of_John_McCain 2. Running a presidential campaign that wasn't solely about belittling and lying about President Obama, despite the following decade being nothing but undignified character assassinations by the Republican Party. 3. The infamous thumbs down on the Senate floor, where John McCain actually chose country over party and voted against the skinny repeal of Obamacare. Obama and Biden both had beautiful and respectful things to say and write about McCain too. | ||
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Longshank
1648 Posts
On August 26 2018 20:49 Grumbels wrote: https://mobile.twitter.com/Beschizza/status/1033519881268940806 This is how NBC brought the news, speaking of respect to the dead. An unfortunate cut isn't the same as 'good riddance'. They showed him lots of respect in their segment. | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France8195 Posts
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