EPTWhile they are at it they can condemn everything that happens in the world to anything the trump administration regard as their enemy, which currently includes everything but Russia and Isreal and Saudi Arabia
US Politics Mega-thread - Page 604
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
While they are at it they can condemn everything that happens in the world to anything the trump administration regard as their enemy, which currently includes everything but Russia and Isreal and Saudi Arabia | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23456 Posts
On August 09 2018 06:57 Dangermousecatdog wrote: A normal person would had simply reitereated what they were arguing. What are you arguing for GH? That the US government does not condemn attacks on the leader of the government of Venezuala? Do you want a white house official to take time out from their busy schedules to condemn the attack? While they are at it they can condemn everything that happens in the world to anything the trump administration regard as their enemy, which currently includes everything but Russia and Isreal and Saudi Arabia Is it fun making shitty arguments like this or are you simply incapable of following a discussion? I have reiterated what I said more than once now. What's with the seeming entitlement to me having to reiterate my point every third post with seemingly no obligation for people to know what it is they are arguing or arguing against? It was like an hour ago and it's at the top of the last page ffs http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/general/532255-us-politics-mega-thread?page=603#12042 I'm saying that the US, beyond it's threats of invasion, crippling sanctions openly intended to destabilize the country/economy, and long history of supporting some of the most gruesome and heinous groups as well as training them and providing funding etc... "looks" like it's still up to it's old games. Actively pushing for regime change, so much so as not even condemning the attempted assassination of a (unrecognized by the US and Allies) world leader. And being accused (with evidence, even if one doesn't trust it) of being tied to it. BTW they did get around to denying, which is typically when you would say "and we support a democratic regime change, not terrorist assassinations" which they didn't, so it's not like they didn't have the time. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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zlefin
United States7689 Posts
On August 09 2018 09:26 JimmiC wrote: I can't find anything directly linking the attack to the US, or really anyone (Maduro excluded) even suggesting it was them. They have detained a US citizen. Everywhere I have read that it was very likely a real attack and not one staged for the governments benefit. That however, is not stopping Maduro from doing what any "good" dictator would do and blaming his political enemies and consolidating their power. https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/venezuela-drone-attack-assassination-attempt-president-arrests-supreme-court-1.4778010 As much as I wish the US would stay out of countries internal issues (which they likely did in this case), I'm not sure what is appropriate to do when some one takes power and moves the country away from a democracy. Any protest or questioning of the government internally is met with imprisonment, and sanctions lead to hurting the people more than the leader. Madruo is still living like a billionaire it's the people that suffer. How long has the world been sanctioning NK and does the supreme leader suffer even a little bit? I think not. What is the appropriate action for countries to take towards dictators that make human rights violations against their people? depends on the severity of the actions they take and how much internal support they have and some other factors; generally speaking targetted economic sanctions at the leadership is about it. there's not much you can do in many cases, as the outcomes for other actions are even worse. if you want we can go over why some of the other options won't go well. | ||
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Godwrath
Spain10131 Posts
On August 09 2018 09:26 JimmiC wrote: The only reason Maduro is anyone's target is because he's not aligned with the US. It's not like the US foreign policy gives a shit about countries being dictatorships or breaking human right violations if they can sell them weapons, increase their area of influence or whatever merits support.What is the appropriate action for countries to take towards dictators that make human rights violations against their people? | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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screamingpalm
United States1527 Posts
On August 09 2018 09:54 JimmiC wrote: Other countries however, will at times condemn countries for human rights violations even at their own economic detriment. See Canada vs Saudi right now. Which is ironic looking at how they treat indigenous people (not saying the US is any better obviously). One good thing out of all of this, is articles like the one plansix posted, which points out the actual reason for Venezuela's hyperinflation- being shortage of resources, and not just "printing money" as the MSM repeats ad nauseum. | ||
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zlefin
United States7689 Posts
On August 09 2018 09:51 JimmiC wrote: Appreciated. I've seen them not go well, sometimes spectacularly so. I'm wondering any time that sanctions worked? How do you target the leadership without hurting the people? ways to target the leadership: focus on very high end goods (which none of the regular people would be buying anyways); go after their international banking. seize assets they have outside their country. arrest them if they leave their country. Make sure there's a threat of consequences later (i.e. maybe you can't do much now; but they can be punished later if they're deposed and flee). iirc the anti-russia sanctions at the moment are of this sort, narrowly aimed at the leadership/oligarchs; or at least many of them are. it's true that sanctions rarely work; on the other hand it may be better than doing nothing. in some cases sanctions are more about limiting the countries' ability to cause harm to others. sanctions worked against Iran, if not for Trump throwing away the good deal. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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zlefin
United States7689 Posts
On August 09 2018 10:23 JimmiC wrote: That makes sense. I hope it has some effect, the people are leaving in droves, no work, food, housing, and Maduro is giving himself more power not giving it away. I hope something works. sadly, often nothing works for a long time, and there's just not much you can do about it (unless you incur great expense). Some things have to be fixed internally for a fix to work. The US is simply not in a position to do anything that effective about Maduro (again unless you incur a massive cost); | ||
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screamingpalm
United States1527 Posts
On August 09 2018 10:22 JimmiC wrote: Yes Canada has not done a good job historically of treating the first nations well. It is getting much better. If you are interested in that sort of thing there is a "news" website (its like the onion) and it does a hilarious job or pointing out what a not good job Canada has done, and mistakes it is still making. https://walkingeaglenews.com/ Here is an example. https://walkingeaglenews.com/2018/06/18/canadians-react-with-horror-disgust-to-same-thing-that-happened-to-indigenous-kids-here-not-that-long-ago/ Maybe I am not fully informed, but I see quite a bit of news of the protests against the oil industry and pipelines happening on indigenous land, much the same as here in the US. I love satire and all, but feels like it plays to the US impression (stereotype) of Canadians, while my neighbor (from Canada) is the biggest Trumpian gun-loving hick on the block and hated by everyone lol. Not exactly the chill 420 type with manners etc.  | ||
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thePunGun
598 Posts
On August 09 2018 10:23 JimmiC wrote: That makes sense. I hope it has some effect, the people are leaving in droves, no work, food, housing, and Maduro is giving himself more power not giving it away. I hope something works. For some reason I read 'effective' and spat the sip of water I just took on my monitor. Because I imagined Maduro vs the world in a Pokemon arena. "World uses sanctions on Maduro, it's very effective!"  | ||
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Ayaz2810
United States2763 Posts
This is amazing in how brazenly corrupt it is. Basically "we need our Supreme Court pick on the bench before we impeach Rosenstein because what will follow will be a battle to impeach Trump, and we need the vote to keep him in office and remain in power". This will hopefully be enormously important starting tomorrow. https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watch/trms-exclusive-devin-nunes-fundraiser-audio-clip-1-1295135811618 | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
On August 09 2018 10:46 Ayaz2810 wrote: Holy. Shit. This is amazing in how brazenly corrupt it is. Basically "we need our Supreme Court pick on the bench before we impeach Rosenstein because what will follow will be a battle to impeach Trump, and we need the vote to keep him in office and remain in power". This will hopefully be enormously important starting tomorrow. https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watch/trms-exclusive-devin-nunes-fundraiser-audio-clip-1-1295135811618 With Pruitt gone Nunes might the number one must scummy, corrupt person under the position of POTUS in DC. The guy is that bad. If nothing else I hope he loses badly in Nov. | ||
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
EDIT: Or even if Mueller writes that report before November I guess. | ||
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
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KwarK
United States43203 Posts
Also I can’t help feeling that if the US had tried it they’d have succeeded. | ||
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