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On December 03 2025 03:06 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2025 02:37 GreenHorizons wrote:On December 03 2025 02:23 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On December 03 2025 02:12 GreenHorizons wrote:On December 03 2025 01:37 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On December 03 2025 01:29 LightSpectra wrote:
His own disciples seem to be getting tired of it too, judging by the crashing polls and nonstop reports of low morale in virtually every government agency. I didn't realize this was the case, but the evidence does seem to support it: + Show Spoiler +"Enten cited a recent Gallup poll that saw Trump’s net approval rating sink to -24 percent from -1 percent in January. “We’re talking about a drop of over 20 points in the wrong direction for the president of the United States,” the analyst said. The only president who was less popular than Trump at this point in his second term? Richard Nixon, who had an approval rating of -36 points just a few months before he resigned from office. “Anywhere you look this is the second-worst for a president of either party in their second term dating all the way back since the 1940s,” Enten said." https://newrepublic.com/post/203799/donald-trump-popular-poll-richard-nixon "President Donald Trump’s job approval rating has fallen five percentage points to 36%, the lowest of his second term, while disapproval has risen to 60%. ... Both Republicans’ and independents’ ratings of Trump have worsened significantly since last month. Republicans’ approval has fallen seven points to 84%, while independents’ has slipped eight points to 25%. Republicans’ rating is the lowest of Trump’s second term, while independents’ is the worst in either term. Trump’s prior low point among independents, 29%, was last recorded in July and, prior to that, was only seen once before, in August 2017. Meanwhile, Democrats’ rating of the president remains mired in the low single digits (3%)." https://news.gallup.com/poll/699221/trump-approval-rating-drops-new-second-term-low.aspx "316 days into Donald Trump's term: The president's net approval rating is -19%, down 0.6 points since last week. 38% approve, 57% disapprove, 4% not sure. Once the honeymoon is over, presidents tend to lose popularity quickly. But no recent president has fallen so low so quickly as Donald Trump. At the start of his second term public opinion was nearly evenly divided between those who approved of the president and those who did not. Things have since changed—his net approval is now lower than at any point in his first term. Rather than rebounding after the end of America’s longest ever government shutdown, Mr Trump’s popularity has continued to sink. Americans are particularly dissatisfied with Mr Trump’s handling of inflation and the economy, two issues which were key to his re-election last November. Young and non-white voters, many of whom abandoned Democrats because of concerns about the cost of living, are now souring on Mr Trump faster than other groups. It was those voters who fuelled Democratic victories in governor elections in Virginia and New Jersey—an ominous sign for Republicans before next year’s midterm elections." https://www.economist.com/interactive/trump-approval-tracker On the other hand, Trump's job approval is better at this point in his presidency than it was last time. https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/approval/donald-trump/approval-ratingHe doesn't have the best spread, but 43% also gives him the highest percentage of people rating him favorably out of political party leaders. www.realclearpolling.com Compared to Nov/Dec of 2017? Sure, but that's only because he set the bar so disastrously low back then. His current 43% is the lowest of his entire second term (so far), which has been consistently decreasing since June. He's polling better than last time. Polling better than Biden at this point, and well above Biden's low. He has the highest favorables of any political party leader. The perception that this is unprecedentedly awful or that his support is "crashing" is basically just spin/copium. It's in the "normal range" after an anomalously high start for Trump. First of all, the whataboutisms of Biden and other politicians are irrelevant here; we're talking about whether or not Trump's approval rating has been decreasing over the past few months. + Show Spoiler +Second, LightSpectra is correct that Trump's polls have been significantly declining. If you think it's an exaggeration to call it a "crash", then okay, but it's certainly not "spin/copium". If anything, it's "spin/copium" to take a conversation about absolute data and turn it into a conversation about relative data to try and reject what the absolute data shows.
Third, your comparison between Trump's first term and Trump's second term is still not what we're talking about, but even so, they're not that far off from each other. Trump's first year of his first term saw a drop from about 45% to about 37% (a decline of 8%, give or take 1 or 2 percentage points), while Trump's first year of his second term saw a drop from about 50% to 43% (a decline of 7%, give or take 1 or 2 percentage points). It's a non sequitur to say that Trump's approval isn't currently crashing just because the decline is almost-but-not-quite-as-bad-as his approval 8 years ago. He also crashed 8 years ago, as have other presidents throughout history, but that's not what we're talking about.
It'd be like me saying "over the weekend, I got hurt - I broke my leg", and you countering with "no you didn't get hurt, because a few years ago you broke your leg and also your arm at the same time, and besides, I know another guy who got decapitated". Trump is irredeemably awful and supporting him is deplorable imo.
Ultimately, you're agreeing with me that Trump is in his typical polling range (which is still higher than his or the last president's at this point) after an anomalously high start despite/because of all the stuff Jankisa mentioned he's doing this time.
On December 03 2025 02:48 Jankisa wrote:
I don't think that making fun of GH or trying to pretend like Trump's approval ratings are insane considering everything he's been doing will make the fact that the USA is in a horrible place right now go away.
Trump is enjoying a better approval rating then Biden during the same time in their presidency, Biden did more or less 0 controversial or fucked up shit in the same period, Trump attacked Iran, tried to shut down Venezuelan air space over a tweet, is obviously planning to invade them, sent militarized ICE all over the USA to brutalize immigrants, declared that there are only 2 genders, pardoned Jan 6th rioters, drug lords, crypto bros, accepted a plane as a bribe from Qatar, started a trade war with the whole world, blew a huge hole in the budget and accelerated inflation.
That's just the tip of the iceberg, there is so much more (didn't even mention Epstein, Ukraine, Comey etc.), and his approval is better then the guy who didn't even start showing serious signs of decline or fucked up the Afghanistan pull out.
This is not good, GH is right to be a doomer over it and he hasn't even mentioned Democrats, this is about Americans being on board with horrible shit, in huge numbers.
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On December 03 2025 03:42 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2025 03:06 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On December 03 2025 02:37 GreenHorizons wrote:On December 03 2025 02:23 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On December 03 2025 02:12 GreenHorizons wrote:On December 03 2025 01:37 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On December 03 2025 01:29 LightSpectra wrote:
His own disciples seem to be getting tired of it too, judging by the crashing polls and nonstop reports of low morale in virtually every government agency. I didn't realize this was the case, but the evidence does seem to support it: + Show Spoiler +"Enten cited a recent Gallup poll that saw Trump’s net approval rating sink to -24 percent from -1 percent in January. “We’re talking about a drop of over 20 points in the wrong direction for the president of the United States,” the analyst said. The only president who was less popular than Trump at this point in his second term? Richard Nixon, who had an approval rating of -36 points just a few months before he resigned from office. “Anywhere you look this is the second-worst for a president of either party in their second term dating all the way back since the 1940s,” Enten said." https://newrepublic.com/post/203799/donald-trump-popular-poll-richard-nixon "President Donald Trump’s job approval rating has fallen five percentage points to 36%, the lowest of his second term, while disapproval has risen to 60%. ... Both Republicans’ and independents’ ratings of Trump have worsened significantly since last month. Republicans’ approval has fallen seven points to 84%, while independents’ has slipped eight points to 25%. Republicans’ rating is the lowest of Trump’s second term, while independents’ is the worst in either term. Trump’s prior low point among independents, 29%, was last recorded in July and, prior to that, was only seen once before, in August 2017. Meanwhile, Democrats’ rating of the president remains mired in the low single digits (3%)." https://news.gallup.com/poll/699221/trump-approval-rating-drops-new-second-term-low.aspx "316 days into Donald Trump's term: The president's net approval rating is -19%, down 0.6 points since last week. 38% approve, 57% disapprove, 4% not sure. Once the honeymoon is over, presidents tend to lose popularity quickly. But no recent president has fallen so low so quickly as Donald Trump. At the start of his second term public opinion was nearly evenly divided between those who approved of the president and those who did not. Things have since changed—his net approval is now lower than at any point in his first term. Rather than rebounding after the end of America’s longest ever government shutdown, Mr Trump’s popularity has continued to sink. Americans are particularly dissatisfied with Mr Trump’s handling of inflation and the economy, two issues which were key to his re-election last November. Young and non-white voters, many of whom abandoned Democrats because of concerns about the cost of living, are now souring on Mr Trump faster than other groups. It was those voters who fuelled Democratic victories in governor elections in Virginia and New Jersey—an ominous sign for Republicans before next year’s midterm elections." https://www.economist.com/interactive/trump-approval-tracker On the other hand, Trump's job approval is better at this point in his presidency than it was last time. https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/approval/donald-trump/approval-ratingHe doesn't have the best spread, but 43% also gives him the highest percentage of people rating him favorably out of political party leaders. www.realclearpolling.com Compared to Nov/Dec of 2017? Sure, but that's only because he set the bar so disastrously low back then. His current 43% is the lowest of his entire second term (so far), which has been consistently decreasing since June. He's polling better than last time. Polling better than Biden at this point, and well above Biden's low. He has the highest favorables of any political party leader. The perception that this is unprecedentedly awful or that his support is "crashing" is basically just spin/copium. It's in the "normal range" after an anomalously high start for Trump. First of all, the whataboutisms of Biden and other politicians are irrelevant here; we're talking about whether or not Trump's approval rating has been decreasing over the past few months. + Show Spoiler +Second, LightSpectra is correct that Trump's polls have been significantly declining. If you think it's an exaggeration to call it a "crash", then okay, but it's certainly not "spin/copium". If anything, it's "spin/copium" to take a conversation about absolute data and turn it into a conversation about relative data to try and reject what the absolute data shows.
Third, your comparison between Trump's first term and Trump's second term is still not what we're talking about, but even so, they're not that far off from each other. Trump's first year of his first term saw a drop from about 45% to about 37% (a decline of 8%, give or take 1 or 2 percentage points), while Trump's first year of his second term saw a drop from about 50% to 43% (a decline of 7%, give or take 1 or 2 percentage points). It's a non sequitur to say that Trump's approval isn't currently crashing just because the decline is almost-but-not-quite-as-bad-as his approval 8 years ago. He also crashed 8 years ago, as have other presidents throughout history, but that's not what we're talking about.
It'd be like me saying "over the weekend, I got hurt - I broke my leg", and you countering with "no you didn't get hurt, because a few years ago you broke your leg and also your arm at the same time, and besides, I know another guy who got decapitated". Trump is irredeemably awful and supporting him is deplorable imo. Ultimately, you're agreeing with me that Trump is in his typical polling range (which is still higher than his or the last president's at this point) after an anomalously high start despite/because of all the stuff Jankisa mentioned he's doing this time. Show nested quote +On December 03 2025 02:48 Jankisa wrote:
I don't think that making fun of GH or trying to pretend like Trump's approval ratings are insane considering everything he's been doing will make the fact that the USA is in a horrible place right now go away.
Trump is enjoying a better approval rating then Biden during the same time in their presidency, Biden did more or less 0 controversial or fucked up shit in the same period, Trump attacked Iran, tried to shut down Venezuelan air space over a tweet, is obviously planning to invade them, sent militarized ICE all over the USA to brutalize immigrants, declared that there are only 2 genders, pardoned Jan 6th rioters, drug lords, crypto bros, accepted a plane as a bribe from Qatar, started a trade war with the whole world, blew a huge hole in the budget and accelerated inflation.
That's just the tip of the iceberg, there is so much more (didn't even mention Epstein, Ukraine, Comey etc.), and his approval is better then the guy who didn't even start showing serious signs of decline or fucked up the Afghanistan pull out.
This is not good, GH is right to be a doomer over it and he hasn't even mentioned Democrats, this is about Americans being on board with horrible shit, in huge numbers.
My issue isn't with the fact that Trump's first term saw a large decline early on, nor with the fact that Biden also had a large decline. My issue is that you rejected the fact that Trump's second term is also experiencing a large decline, and you brought up other previous declines as a way to pretend like the current decline isn't actually happening. As a response to what LightSpectra correctly pointed out, your pivot was disingenuous. If you wanted to start a completely separate, independent conversation about how presidents experience declines in approval ratings, then I wouldn't have any issue with it... but your comments were created to specifically dismiss what LightSpectra had correctly pointed out.
And I do agree with you that "Trump is irredeemably awful and supporting him is deplorable imo".
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I don't know, polling is weird, I guess, to me, from a perspective of someone watching this overseas, and comparing it to Biden's presidency or even Trump 1, it's completely fucking batshit insane that he's even in the same neighborhood when it comes to his approval rating.
I'm not a statistician or have any sort of deep expertise in to the American political system, but if Americans, after 1 year of seeing what I've been seeing still think that this kind of shit is deserving of support, I'm sorry but that is extremely disheartening to me.
From my observations Trump's floor is 25 %, that's the amount of crazy fundamental Christians and fascists who haven't gotten over the confederacy, but the fact that there is around 15 % of Americans, so around 50 million people who aren't them who still saw the shit that went down over the last year and can say, yup, this has my stamp of approval is fucking depressing.
Whether that % is 15 , 20 or 10, it's still an insane number to me, I'm happy it's going down, but I think I can still feel depressed over it being so fucking high.
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It's absolutely valid to be depressed about it. I'm not going to say the world is bright and beautiful because only a third of the country is cool with psychopathic lawlessness and corruption. Relative to other points in history though, there's good reason to be optimistic. More people were against legalizing gay marriage than currently support Trump for most of history. More people supported segregation and Jim Crow laws than currently support Trump. After the total wipeout on election night last month, Republicans were sullen. They didn't go around saying "nothing to fear, we still have 36% support".
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On December 03 2025 03:53 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2025 03:42 GreenHorizons wrote:On December 03 2025 03:06 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On December 03 2025 02:37 GreenHorizons wrote:On December 03 2025 02:23 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On December 03 2025 02:12 GreenHorizons wrote:On December 03 2025 01:37 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On December 03 2025 01:29 LightSpectra wrote:
His own disciples seem to be getting tired of it too, judging by the crashing polls and nonstop reports of low morale in virtually every government agency. I didn't realize this was the case, but the evidence does seem to support it: + Show Spoiler +"Enten cited a recent Gallup poll that saw Trump’s net approval rating sink to -24 percent from -1 percent in January. “We’re talking about a drop of over 20 points in the wrong direction for the president of the United States,” the analyst said. The only president who was less popular than Trump at this point in his second term? Richard Nixon, who had an approval rating of -36 points just a few months before he resigned from office. “Anywhere you look this is the second-worst for a president of either party in their second term dating all the way back since the 1940s,” Enten said." https://newrepublic.com/post/203799/donald-trump-popular-poll-richard-nixon "President Donald Trump’s job approval rating has fallen five percentage points to 36%, the lowest of his second term, while disapproval has risen to 60%. ... Both Republicans’ and independents’ ratings of Trump have worsened significantly since last month. Republicans’ approval has fallen seven points to 84%, while independents’ has slipped eight points to 25%. Republicans’ rating is the lowest of Trump’s second term, while independents’ is the worst in either term. Trump’s prior low point among independents, 29%, was last recorded in July and, prior to that, was only seen once before, in August 2017. Meanwhile, Democrats’ rating of the president remains mired in the low single digits (3%)." https://news.gallup.com/poll/699221/trump-approval-rating-drops-new-second-term-low.aspx "316 days into Donald Trump's term: The president's net approval rating is -19%, down 0.6 points since last week. 38% approve, 57% disapprove, 4% not sure. Once the honeymoon is over, presidents tend to lose popularity quickly. But no recent president has fallen so low so quickly as Donald Trump. At the start of his second term public opinion was nearly evenly divided between those who approved of the president and those who did not. Things have since changed—his net approval is now lower than at any point in his first term. Rather than rebounding after the end of America’s longest ever government shutdown, Mr Trump’s popularity has continued to sink. Americans are particularly dissatisfied with Mr Trump’s handling of inflation and the economy, two issues which were key to his re-election last November. Young and non-white voters, many of whom abandoned Democrats because of concerns about the cost of living, are now souring on Mr Trump faster than other groups. It was those voters who fuelled Democratic victories in governor elections in Virginia and New Jersey—an ominous sign for Republicans before next year’s midterm elections." https://www.economist.com/interactive/trump-approval-tracker On the other hand, Trump's job approval is better at this point in his presidency than it was last time. https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/approval/donald-trump/approval-ratingHe doesn't have the best spread, but 43% also gives him the highest percentage of people rating him favorably out of political party leaders. www.realclearpolling.com Compared to Nov/Dec of 2017? Sure, but that's only because he set the bar so disastrously low back then. His current 43% is the lowest of his entire second term (so far), which has been consistently decreasing since June. He's polling better than last time. Polling better than Biden at this point, and well above Biden's low. He has the highest favorables of any political party leader. The perception that this is unprecedentedly awful or that his support is "crashing" is basically just spin/copium. It's in the "normal range" after an anomalously high start for Trump. First of all, the whataboutisms of Biden and other politicians are irrelevant here; we're talking about whether or not Trump's approval rating has been decreasing over the past few months. + Show Spoiler +Second, LightSpectra is correct that Trump's polls have been significantly declining. If you think it's an exaggeration to call it a "crash", then okay, but it's certainly not "spin/copium". If anything, it's "spin/copium" to take a conversation about absolute data and turn it into a conversation about relative data to try and reject what the absolute data shows.
Third, your comparison between Trump's first term and Trump's second term is still not what we're talking about, but even so, they're not that far off from each other. Trump's first year of his first term saw a drop from about 45% to about 37% (a decline of 8%, give or take 1 or 2 percentage points), while Trump's first year of his second term saw a drop from about 50% to 43% (a decline of 7%, give or take 1 or 2 percentage points). It's a non sequitur to say that Trump's approval isn't currently crashing just because the decline is almost-but-not-quite-as-bad-as his approval 8 years ago. He also crashed 8 years ago, as have other presidents throughout history, but that's not what we're talking about.
It'd be like me saying "over the weekend, I got hurt - I broke my leg", and you countering with "no you didn't get hurt, because a few years ago you broke your leg and also your arm at the same time, and besides, I know another guy who got decapitated". Trump is irredeemably awful and supporting him is deplorable imo. Ultimately, you're agreeing with me that Trump is in his typical polling range (which is still higher than his or the last president's at this point) after an anomalously high start despite/because of all the stuff Jankisa mentioned he's doing this time. On December 03 2025 02:48 Jankisa wrote:
I don't think that making fun of GH or trying to pretend like Trump's approval ratings are insane considering everything he's been doing will make the fact that the USA is in a horrible place right now go away.
Trump is enjoying a better approval rating then Biden during the same time in their presidency, Biden did more or less 0 controversial or fucked up shit in the same period, Trump attacked Iran, tried to shut down Venezuelan air space over a tweet, is obviously planning to invade them, sent militarized ICE all over the USA to brutalize immigrants, declared that there are only 2 genders, pardoned Jan 6th rioters, drug lords, crypto bros, accepted a plane as a bribe from Qatar, started a trade war with the whole world, blew a huge hole in the budget and accelerated inflation.
That's just the tip of the iceberg, there is so much more (didn't even mention Epstein, Ukraine, Comey etc.), and his approval is better then the guy who didn't even start showing serious signs of decline or fucked up the Afghanistan pull out.
This is not good, GH is right to be a doomer over it and he hasn't even mentioned Democrats, this is about Americans being on board with horrible shit, in huge numbers. My issue isn't with the fact that Trump's first term saw a large decline early on, nor with the fact that Biden also had a large decline. My issue is that you rejected the fact that Trump's second term is also experiencing a large decline, and you brought up other previous declines as a way to pretend like the current decline isn't actually happening. As a response to what LightSpectra correctly pointed out, your pivot was disingenuous. If you wanted to start a completely separate, independent conversation about how presidents experience declines in approval ratings, then I wouldn't have any issue with it... but your comments were created to specifically dismiss what LightSpectra had correctly pointed out. And I do agree with you that "Trump is irredeemably awful and supporting him is deplorable imo".
Trump is irredeemably awful and supporting him is deplorable imo
I was pointing out that you were using an absurdly limited metric to support LightSpectra's assertion that "His own disciples seem to be getting tired of it too", and that in context (including his anomalously high support at the start of his term), that was spin/copium.
As usual, people emotionally lashed out at me personally and LightSpectra spun up a strawman about "Trump is more popular than ever".
Jankisa noticed I was providing reasonable context, and now everyone is going to commiserate about how awful it all is.
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On December 03 2025 04:10 LightSpectra wrote:
It's absolutely valid to be depressed about it. I'm not going to say the world is bright and beautiful because only a third of the country is cool with psychopathic lawlessness and corruption. Relative to other points in history though, there's good reason to be optimistic. More people were against legalizing gay marriage than currently support Trump for most of history. More people supported segregation and Jim Crow laws than currently support Trump. After the total wipeout on election night last month, Republicans were sullen. They didn't go around saying "nothing to fear, we still have 36% support".
I guess that to me, with my close ties to USA via my job and generally being very immersed in the culture, it hits hard that after 10 years people haven't figured Trump out, on the contrary, his second, more extreme term seems to be better received (if only so slightly) then his first, more tame one.
A lot of the social progress you mention has been sliding back, we had Roe v Wade reversed, post-op Trans people are now legally obligated to be dead named by officials, protections in military and many other places are being reversed, how far are we from gay marriage getting reversed?
When asked if they think same-sex marriage should be legal, 54% said yes, 33% said no, and 13% were unsure. These numbers mark a considerable drop from just a few years ago, when Gallup’s 2021 poll found that a record-high 70% of Americans supported same-sex marriage.
Source. This is a 16 % drop in 4 years, a percentage up for Trump (compared to his previous term) amidst him starting trade wars and insulting allies, abandoning Ukraine and having a treasonous envoy teach Russians how to butter him up is not something that makes me optimistic, no matter how well local elections went.
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Has the admiral who was behind the boat strikes, according to the White House, been summoned to a congressional hearing yet? Seems like the easiest way to get bottom of things. Just have the members of the military answer the questions until it becomes clear who gave the commands.
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Northern Ireland26235 Posts
On December 03 2025 03:53 Jankisa wrote:
I don't know, polling is weird, I guess, to me, from a perspective of someone watching this overseas, and comparing it to Biden's presidency or even Trump 1, it's completely fucking batshit insane that he's even in the same neighborhood when it comes to his approval rating.
I'm not a statistician or have any sort of deep expertise in to the American political system, but if Americans, after 1 year of seeing what I've been seeing still think that this kind of shit is deserving of support, I'm sorry but that is extremely disheartening to me.
From my observations Trump's floor is 25 %, that's the amount of crazy fundamental Christians and fascists who haven't gotten over the confederacy, but the fact that there is around 15 % of Americans, so around 50 million people who aren't them who still saw the shit that went down over the last year and can say, yup, this has my stamp of approval is fucking depressing.
Whether that % is 15 , 20 or 10, it's still an insane number to me, I'm happy it's going down, but I think I can still feel depressed over it being so fucking high.
I mean this is it. Depressing
But what does one do with that observation? How does one react? What’s the takeaway as it were? As it pertains to a discussion thread such as this anyway.
Perhaps I’m one of life’s pessimists, but for me (and others here I believe, but they can’t speak for themselves), if you have such a resilient cohort of such a size that’s either enthusiastic about American Fascism, or at least tolerant of it, and a leader and apparatus that are happy to go down Fascist rabbit holes, and a political system that structurally makes it difficult to stop that in some domains, you gotta stop that happening.
Aspire to better, by all means, I certainly do as well, but avoid disaster in the immediate.
That was my prescription pre-election anyways. Ya gotta win that one. I don’t think there’s a 1:1 relation between MAGA cultists and Fascist tendencies. Trump is the intermediary layer for some, maybe it’s a minuscule amount, maybe not. But some I’d imagine would be less down with the Fash under some new leader. Maybe it’s 10%, maybe 5%, or whatever the number is
There are other conditions aside from that conducive to Fascism, economic uncertainty and shocks especially in the wake of something atypical like Covid. That were starting to stabilise.
If ever there’s a time to hold your nose, it’s then. You can’t guarantee it, but it’s likely that Trump with another 4 years on the clock maybe doesn’t have another shot in him, and there’s no obvious successor. The economy might not be great, but it’ll be in a better spot.
You win there, you don’t necessarily defeat Fascism. But you don’t lose at almost the worst juncture you can lose. If ever there’s a time to hold your nose, probably then.
I think my nation isn’t immune, but I don’t think it’s quite as extreme here. There’s more wriggle room to push for various outcomes when you don’t have the spectre of a leader with a cult of personality, a sizeable proportion of the country tolerant of Fascism, and few mechanisms to stop that being enacted if the two link up for electoral victory.
The French can have their political squabbles, but they’ll set them aside to block the far right in Presidential elections, and then go back to regular political squabbling. We’ve seen it many times. Or elsewhere in Europe where coalition politics tends to marginalise the far right.
I don’t think the US has that luxury.
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The issue is, we can't really count on Trump not being there, the guy is evil, there are reports of his cognitive and health decline for as long as Putin's and I don't see this piece of shit flushing any time soon, even if he becomes incapacitated with modern technology and with how evil his cabinet is I see no reason for them not to do a weekend at Bernie for a very long time, especially with AI, it's not like his followers are very perceptive.
And then you take a look at what they are doing, this is a global movement, they don't need charismatic leaders, they can just go around and say, like they did in the case of Argentina (or currently in Honduras), vote for this piece of shit, or else I'm going to fuck your country up, economically in that case.
Look at what the piece of shit JD Vance had to say on his first big speech in Europe, Munich convention:
"The threat that I worry the most about vis-à-vis Europe, it's not Russia, it's not China, it's not any other external actor. What I worry about is the threat from within, the retreat of Europe from some of its most fundamental values"
This is a global fascist movement, it has Nethyanahu, the Saudis, Putin, Orban, Milei, LaPen, Farage and many others in it, they are all working together to spread it, they are calling in to AfD rallies, into protests in London via their Oligarch propagandist billionaire, they are in league with all the most powerful and rich people in the world and they are working very hard to make sure that no one normal ever comes in to power anywhere that can threaten them.
That's the project, and this project will strip away our rights, our freedoms, our neighbors and friends and when they deal with everyone who slighted them and get rid of all the scapegoats of the "Wokes" and the immigrants, they will turn at each-other, and we will have to either fight in their wars amongst each other or suffer from them.
They have their grubby hands on all the levers of power and I don't see how this ship turns around, I do hope that Europe can resist this, but I have my doubts, especially given how feckless and spineless our leaders have been as a response to Trump.
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Northern Ireland26235 Posts
On December 03 2025 23:09 Jankisa wrote:The issue is, we can't really count on Trump not being there, the guy is evil, there are reports of his cognitive and health decline for as long as Putin's and I don't see this piece of shit flushing any time soon, even if he becomes incapacitated with modern technology and with how evil his cabinet is I see no reason for them not to do a weekend at Bernie for a very long time, especially with AI, it's not like his followers are very perceptive. And then you take a look at what they are doing, this is a global movement, they don't need charismatic leaders, they can just go around and say, like they did in the case of Argentina (or currently in Honduras), vote for this piece of shit, or else I'm going to fuck your country up, economically in that case. Look at what the piece of shit JD Vance had to say on his first big speech in Europe, Munich convention: Show nested quote +"The threat that I worry the most about vis-à-vis Europe, it's not Russia, it's not China, it's not any other external actor. What I worry about is the threat from within, the retreat of Europe from some of its most fundamental values" This is a global fascist movement, it has Nethyanahu, the Saudis, Putin, Orban, Milei, LaPen, Farage and many others in it, they are all working together to spread it, they are calling in to AfD rallies, into protests in London via their Oligarch propagandist billionaire, they are in league with all the most powerful and rich people in the world and they are working very hard to make sure that no one normal ever comes in to power anywhere that can threaten them. That's the project, and this project will strip away our rights, our freedoms, our neighbors and friends and when they deal with everyone who slighted them and get rid of all the scapegoats of the "Wokes" and the immigrants, they will turn at each-other, and we will have to either fight in their wars amongst each other or suffer from them. They have their grubby hands on all the levers of power and I don't see how this ship turns around, I do hope that Europe can resist this, but I have my doubts, especially given how feckless and spineless our leaders have been as a response to Trump.
I disagree to a point, although I basically agree.
There’ll still be that fuckery, it’s just a lot easier to do if you have a pliant idiot in the White House who many people almost actively worship.
And yes it is interlinked. A Trump Presidency is bad for Europe for the reasons you outline.
And yeah I’m not sure how cognisant some are on quite how anti-European figures in this orbit are, be it having cracks at the EU or mucking around in various domestic politics. That’s nae good
My contention is merely that if ever there was a time to ‘vote blue, no matter who’, last time was probably it. And hey, I said so before the fact.
Whatever the opposite of a perfect storm is, we’re being buffetted by its winds right now, across the globe
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On December 04 2025 06:45 pmh wrote:
Polling is badly executed these days. Most pollers pull a random selection from a fixed and larger panel that is suppusedly representative. But its always the same panel that rarely gets updated (since that costs a lot of money). its not truly random. This way of polling tends to underestimate larger shifts in perception. And is also slow to react to shifts in perception in general. You saw this already in 2016.
Either way:the polls are irrelevant the democrats are winning elections. Not true generally about panels. That's mostly polls that are conducted online, and we can contrast those results against more traditional polls that don't use/reuse panels. You can track the accuracy of both kinds and mixed types over time. Guys like Nate Silver compile historical accuracy, and the top polling outfits do very very well + Show Spoiler +. 2-3 points is no big deal, and things never returned to as bad as they were in 2016. Polls were good for New Jersey & Virginia special elections.
The GOP win in TN-07 from Kornacki showed that Dems can be happy holding the Republican candidate to a 9-point margin, though a better candidate might have done better with swing voters in counties outside of Nashville.
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On December 03 2025 23:09 Jankisa wrote:The issue is, we can't really count on Trump not being there, the guy is evil, there are reports of his cognitive and health decline for as long as Putin's and I don't see this piece of shit flushing any time soon, even if he becomes incapacitated with modern technology and with how evil his cabinet is I see no reason for them not to do a weekend at Bernie for a very long time, especially with AI, it's not like his followers are very perceptive. And then you take a look at what they are doing, this is a global movement, they don't need charismatic leaders, they can just go around and say, like they did in the case of Argentina (or currently in Honduras), vote for this piece of shit, or else I'm going to fuck your country up, economically in that case. Look at what the piece of shit JD Vance had to say on his first big speech in Europe, Munich convention: Show nested quote +"The threat that I worry the most about vis-à-vis Europe, it's not Russia, it's not China, it's not any other external actor. What I worry about is the threat from within, the retreat of Europe from some of its most fundamental values" This is a global fascist movement, it has Nethyanahu, the Saudis, Putin, Orban, Milei, LaPen, Farage and many others in it, they are all working together to spread it, they are calling in to AfD rallies, into protests in London via their Oligarch propagandist billionaire, they are in league with all the most powerful and rich people in the world and they are working very hard to make sure that no one normal ever comes in to power anywhere that can threaten them. That's the project, and this project will strip away our rights, our freedoms, our neighbors and friends and when they deal with everyone who slighted them and get rid of all the scapegoats of the "Wokes" and the immigrants, they will turn at each-other, and we will have to either fight in their wars amongst each other or suffer from them. They have their grubby hands on all the levers of power and I don't see how this ship turns around, I do hope that Europe can resist this, but I have my doubts, especially given how feckless and spineless our leaders have been as a response to Trump.
It's a correction movement, not a global fascist movement.
I said this before, the past couple of decades have been too left leaning.
Mass migration issues were not addressed, cultural and social economically.
In fact if you use any travel agency in Asia to visit Europe (and certain parts of US), most if not all local tour guide would be giving you hints and tips how to protect your valuables.
Some are even giving tips before you fly off.
Europe has fallen so far off into irrelevant for decades, geopolitical and economically weak. Let's not have US doing the same and overtaken by China.
Many here would agree with Vance, look at online safety bill from UK, or EU chat scanning.
Go to open source software forum and tell me they are getting more or less concerned with the EU/UK law? Both are trying to break encryption, the very right to privacy and you can rest assured France is doing the same, with graphiteos moving server all together.
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I agree it is a correctional move but not because the world got to left leaning, what you have is social media accounts from foreigners pretending to be locals spreading misinformation creating 'feelings' that have little basis in reality.
Same as with all the MAGA accounts that were exposed as being from places like Nigeria when Twitter turned on location info.
The real underlying reason, that the right is trying to co-opt is economic, 50+ years of wage stagnation and increasing inequality destroying the middle classes and coming to a head with the first generations in history growing up to be poorer then their parents.
We had the same bullshit 'people are tired of left policies' arguments here in the Netherlands in our recent elections. The last actual left government, not just centrum-right, we had ended in 1977.
50 years of right wing rule but its all the lefts fault...
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I find it hilarious that you are trying to pretend like chat control (EU democratically rejected the first attempt, btw) and stupid shit UK (not in the EU) is doing are left wing policies when you are comparing this to the right wing policies of China which is a huge surveillance state, Russia which banned half of the internet or USA where Pornhub requires age verification in 18 states and they are giving Palantir all the data it wants to create their own surveillance state.
EU is a $20 Trillion economy, it's the biggest customer market in the world, 9/10 best quality of life countries in the world are in the "economically weak" EU.
EU, unlike China, US and the rest have an actual functioning democracy and some semblance of transparency so we can actually see and fight their attempts.
I'm pretty sure you aren't in "open source forums", you are in forums for cryptobros who hate EU and align with the authoritarians of the world buddy.
You don't mind fascism because you are into money more then anything else, you are happy to trample over democracy and push for autocracy as long as "line goes up".
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December in the United States: 'Tis the season for Christian pearl-clutching!
Charlie Kirk's Turning Point USA, Fox News, and other right-wing news outlets have been spreading the story of a poor college student who was recently persecuted by her University of Oklahoma professor for sharing her Christian faith.
Except, of course, that's not what happened.
It turns out that the student's psychology class was asked to write an essay analyzing a peer-reviewed journal article on gender typicality, peer relations, and mental health during early adolescence [1] [2] [4].
"The assignment was to write an essay in response to an article. The article is research-based and called “Relations among gender typicality, peer relations, and mental health during early adolescence.” It’s authored by Jewell, J. A., and Brown, C. S. (2014). The abstract stated, “The current study examines whether being high in gender typicality is associated with popularity, whether being low in gender typicality is associated with rejection/teasing, and whether teasing due to low gender typicality mediates the association with negative mental health. Middle school children (34 boys and 50 girls) described hypothetical popular and rejected/teased peers and completed self-report measures about their own gender typicality, experiences with gender-based teasing, depressive symptoms, anxiety, self-esteem, and body image.” [6]
Instead of completing the assignment, Samantha Fulnecky submitted a two-page, middle-school-level rant about what she believes God and the Bible say about gender [1] [3] [4].
To give an idea of her essay's tone, quality, preachiness, missing punctuation, and lack of academic rigor, here are several direct quotes:
- "Society pushing the lie that there are multiple genders and everyone should be whatever they want to be is demonic"
- "My prayer for the world and specifically for American society and youth is that they would not believe the lies being spread from Satan"
- "The Bible says that our lives are not our own but that our lives and bodies belong to the Lord for His glory"
- "Women naturally want to do womanly things because God created us with those womanly desires in our hearts" [1] [3]
Obligatory reminder that this is a university-level psychology course, not a Bible study circle or Trump University.
Fulnecky received a 0 out of 25 on her paper (the total number of points in the course is over 1000), with the professor (teaching assistant, technically, but synonymously called "professor" in pretty much every news source) providing feedback and justification for the grade - "Does not answer the questions for the assignment, contradicts itself, heavily uses personal ideology over empirical evidence in a scientific class, and is at times offensive" [4] [5] - based on the rubric and assignment expectations that were laid out ahead of time [2] [4].
Fulnecky then responded by filing an illegal discrimination claim with the university, accusing the professor of infringing on her religious freedom [4]. The University of Oklahoma then placed the professor on administrative leave and stated that Fulnecky's grade would not be affected by this essay, even after "A second teacher in the class also told Fulnecky that she agreed with the other instructor's grade for the assignment" [5]. Other students who had taken the same class and completed the same assignment agreed with the professor's grade too, since Fulnecky's essay didn't even reference the scholarly article [6].
Fulnecky is clearly just trying to grab 15 minutes of fame: "After getting the failing grade, she went straight to Governor Stitt, other politicians, and the OU Turning Point USA chapter instead of waiting for the school to finish its investigation." [6]
Some right-wing news outlets have - predictably - focused on the fact that the professor is trans, as if that changes the assignment, rubric, or student's essay in any way. (If those news outlets truly wanted to bring up irrelevant details, then they could also look up just how much of a controversial mess Fulnecky's mother is... it's not hard to see where the conservative Christian pearl-clutching comes from.)
[1] https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/education/2025/11/25/ou-oklahoma-samantha-fulnecky-read-essay-gender-bible/87463858007/
[2] https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vgjTfejwWz7Sw7voi57kwaVQAql3doSe/preview
[3] https://drive.google.com/file/d/1qxnVi_yaJ-Fb9u1-A1Vy2vQT3Aiw8Nix/preview
[4] https://www.news9.com/oklahoma-city-news/ou-essay-bible-instructor-on-leave
[5] https://www.cbsnews.com/news/university-oklahoma-instructor-on-leave-failing-bible-essay-multiple-genders/
[6] https://kfor.com/news/oklahoma-education/students-speak-out-after-ou-educator-put-on-leave-for-giving-a-failing-grade
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Give her 1-4 points out of 10 on thoughtful response, return it as a ~16% (F), and reinstate the TA after a short investigation. The only thing that needs looking at is how strictly other meandering drivel is graded. See: "“We have been getting these papers all semester, and I’ve written them all the same,” she said. “And I’ve gotten a 100 on all of them up until this point.”"
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It's so beyond insane that this is national news in the USA.
I mean who the fuck cares, it's one student complaining about a grade, and even then, the fucking University sided with her and put the professor on leave and they will still go around and I'm sure this will make the rounds on every right wing podcast, show and youtube channel over the next weeks.
In my country, as a comparison, main news currently is a nun who faked an attack from an immigrant on her, she cut herself intentionally and obvious to any doctor, lied about it and called the police on herself.
All the right wingers pushed the story, yelled how it's being suppressed and they are being censored and how no media will cover it, well, they didn't want to cover it saying that it's true because it was fishy, now that police said that it's bullshit, no one is apologizing, they are all doubling down, this stupidity cancer is spreading and they are all copying each others homework. Yuck.
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United States43545 Posts
“Nuns against loving your neighbour” feels like a parody group.
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It's a fascinating story, I'll share a paragraph to show you guys just how in league these pieces of shit are worldwide:
A Catholic nun has been stabbed to death by a migrant in Croatia. The unnamed migrant man attacked Sister Marija Tatjana Zrno in the street in a religiously-motivated terror attack. If she were a Jewish rabbi or a Muslim imam, her face would be plastered across every mainstream channel and on the front page of every newspaper. But she was a Catholic nun. And, just like the genocide of Catholics in Nigeria or the street killings of Christians in Pakistan, the world is turning a blind eye. Where are the headlines? Where are the protests? Where is the outrage? Why are they silent? Ah, yes. Because it isn't 'fashionable' to care about Christian lives. Maria deserved better. And if the rest of the world won't do anything, we must step up and speak out. For Maria and every Christian like her who has lost their life for practicing their faith. We must pray for her peace. And fight for her justice. Remember Sister Marija Tatjana Zrno.
The chick wasn't even dead, but, it made for a better story.
She slightly injured herself to scapegoat an immigrant, they blew it up to Catholic prosecution in a country that is 85% Catholic and where every politician goes to mass every Sunday while robbing us blind.
And this shit was shared by some Tommy Robinson fan from UK who works for Sky news, I don't want to call her a journalist because that would be an insult to the profession.
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EPT![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/xabNr5k.png)
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