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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 5325

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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting!

NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.

Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.


If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread
Doublemint
Profile Joined July 2011
Austria8722 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-10-21 20:12:00
October 21 2025 20:10 GMT
#106481
nah this one is a very special kind of stupid. the same lawyers who brought the suit for private citizen Trump against the government will be the ones overlooking the case as top DOJ lawyers for POTUS Trump.

in a long list of POTUS Maximus Griftus' œuvre, I have a hunch like this might take the cake(so far!).

the legal variant of him dropping shit from up high all over a place called the rule of law. and its so obvious even generally shameless and unapologetic Trump somehow feels conflicted about it.
Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before the fall.
Hat Trick of Today
Profile Joined February 2025
195 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-10-21 21:12:03
October 21 2025 20:58 GMT
#106482
Like I said a while back ago when we were still talking about DOGE, all of this would be fine if conservatives actually got anything from all of this grifting. But the average conservative is really getting fuck all while Trump rug pulls the American public. The only thing they maybe get is maybe having the government tell trans people to go fuck themselves or arrest 10 year old children from school classes, I don’t know about them but I don’t think about either of these things ever.

Like if DOGE was actually about saving government money, I’d actually respect that but anyone with a brain and wasn’t dickriding Musk knew these people aren’t serious about anything. All of us who weren’t purposely staying ignorant about how these people behave knew these are the type of people who would save $5 from the family budget to throw $10 into moribund ventures like Intel and Argentina for nothing but the hopes of personal gain.

Even the nerds who try to appear rational by focusing exclusively of the judiciary aren’t really getting anything because the judiciary is just letting the executive branch to do whatever the fuck they want with zero real oversight. Nothing conservative about that unless your definition of conservative is whatever your right wing social media influencer tells you.
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States43667 Posts
October 21 2025 21:15 GMT
#106483
On October 22 2025 05:58 Hat Trick of Today wrote:
The only thing they maybe get is maybe having the government tell trans people to go fuck themselves or arrest 10 year old children from school classes

The cruelty is the point.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
xM(Z
Profile Joined November 2006
Romania5299 Posts
October 22 2025 05:24 GMT
#106484
trump said his ballroom costs 230mil so it seems he found financing.
And my fury stands ready. I bring all your plans to nought. My bleak heart beats steady. 'Tis you whom I have sought.
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18232 Posts
October 22 2025 06:43 GMT
#106485
On October 22 2025 14:24 xM(Z wrote:
trump said his ballroom costs 230mil so it seems he found financing.

At least we know it's private funding, because the construction workers aren't furloughed. Any oversight and planning committee probably is, though, so it's the perfect time to smash a wrecking ball into the White House.
Vivax
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
22213 Posts
October 22 2025 08:38 GMT
#106486
On October 22 2025 14:24 xM(Z wrote:
trump said his ballroom costs 230mil so it seems he found financing.


The phallicization of the white house. He added balls to it.
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland26341 Posts
October 22 2025 09:43 GMT
#106487
On October 22 2025 15:43 Acrofales wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 22 2025 14:24 xM(Z wrote:
trump said his ballroom costs 230mil so it seems he found financing.

At least we know it's private funding, because the construction workers aren't furloughed. Any oversight and planning committee probably is, though, so it's the perfect time to smash a wrecking ball into the White House.

I’m sure it’s going to be very tasteful and unobjectionable. Who needs oversight right?
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24756 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-10-22 09:50:46
October 22 2025 09:50 GMT
#106488
Maybe I'm being overly optimistic, but I think Trump refusing to meet with Democrats until they cave to his demands is going to blow back enough to give the democrats and overall edge in this shutdown showdown. The pressure will build when the air traffic controllers aren't working enough to support air travel. Every other news item will be about major air travel delays as we approach the holiday season. The Democrats' message will be "This ends as soon as Trump, Johnson, and Thune actually meet with us to work out a few details. Until then, the GOP shutdown continues."

I remember the partial shutdown in 2018-2019 and how things obviously hadn't totally collapsed yet. I think 5 weeks is manageable based on that case study, but 6 weeks is where the snowball gets out of control with essential government workers departing their job, putting more strain on the ones left behind, who in turn depart as well. Things will go from "not that bad" to "oh crap" pretty quickly, and the blowback will generally be on the party in control of the government. However, the damage to the American people will be considerable, so that's not much consolation to me.
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland26341 Posts
October 22 2025 10:43 GMT
#106489
On October 22 2025 18:50 micronesia wrote:
Maybe I'm being overly optimistic, but I think Trump refusing to meet with Democrats until they cave to his demands is going to blow back enough to give the democrats and overall edge in this shutdown showdown. The pressure will build when the air traffic controllers aren't working enough to support air travel. Every other news item will be about major air travel delays as we approach the holiday season. The Democrats' message will be "This ends as soon as Trump, Johnson, and Thune actually meet with us to work out a few details. Until then, the GOP shutdown continues."

I remember the partial shutdown in 2018-2019 and how things obviously hadn't totally collapsed yet. I think 5 weeks is manageable based on that case study, but 6 weeks is where the snowball gets out of control with essential government workers departing their job, putting more strain on the ones left behind, who in turn depart as well. Things will go from "not that bad" to "oh crap" pretty quickly, and the blowback will generally be on the party in control of the government. However, the damage to the American people will be considerable, so that's not much consolation to me.

In theory it should be a slam dunk and a political win in the Dem column. Especially if they play it halfway sensibly.

I guess you’ll always have a cohort of diehard MAGA types who’ll blame them regardless, but I’d imagine that Joe and Jane Public would start to blame the Republicans when it starts to bite, if they hadn’t already.

That said, in theory is doing some lifting here, may work out otherwise!

And of course, regardless of where blame is apportioned, not an ideal state of affairs anyway as you say.
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
Phyanketto
Profile Joined September 2011
United States601 Posts
October 22 2025 11:35 GMT
#106490
On October 22 2025 05:10 Doublemint wrote:
nah this one is a very special kind of stupid. the same lawyers who brought the suit for private citizen Trump against the government will be the ones overlooking the case as top DOJ lawyers for POTUS Trump.

in a long list of POTUS Maximus Griftus' œuvre, I have a hunch like this might take the cake(so far!).

the legal variant of him dropping shit from up high all over a place called the rule of law. and its so obvious even generally shameless and unapologetic Trump somehow feels conflicted about it.

jesus christ it's like that scene in the Last Vampire on Earth when the kid is playing ping pong with himself
세 가지 제어
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States45341 Posts
October 22 2025 14:37 GMT
#106491
On October 22 2025 14:24 xM(Z wrote:
trump said his ballroom costs 230mil so it seems he found financing.

Apparently, he's trying to steal that exact amount of money from the Justice Department. What an amazing coincidence!

"President Trump is demanding that the Justice Department pay him about $230 million in compensation for the federal investigations into him, according to people familiar with the matter, who added that any settlement might ultimately be approved by senior department officials who defended him or those in his orbit." https://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/21/us/politics/trump-justice-department-compensation.html
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States43667 Posts
October 22 2025 15:39 GMT
#106492
This conspiracy theory makes no sense. Why would he not make the taxpayers pay for the ballroom and for the settlement and walk away with a ballroom and cash? The idea that he’d get the cash then reimburse the costs of the ballroom makes no sense. He doesn’t pay contractors for work at the best of times.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Razyda
Profile Joined March 2013
911 Posts
October 22 2025 16:54 GMT
#106493
On October 19 2025 09:16 KwarK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 19 2025 09:04 Razyda wrote:
On October 19 2025 08:57 micronesia wrote:
Considering Trump's the only president to so blatantly weaponize the criminal justice system so far, there's no need to "both sides" this yet.


You cant be serious now? How many court cases he faced since he started running for president?

You get that he did the things, right? You do understand that, don’t you? Like the court found that he did rape that woman. He is, legally speaking, a rapist. That’s why he was in court for it. It’s not political, he just raped a woman and that’s illegal to do.


On October 21 2025 09:17 LightSpectra wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 19 2025 10:09 Razyda wrote:
On October 19 2025 09:16 KwarK wrote:
On October 19 2025 09:04 Razyda wrote:
On October 19 2025 08:57 micronesia wrote:
Considering Trump's the only president to so blatantly weaponize the criminal justice system so far, there's no need to "both sides" this yet.


You cant be serious now? How many court cases he faced since he started running for president?

You get that he did the things, right? You do understand that, don’t you? Like the court found that he did rape that woman. He is, legally speaking, a rapist. That’s why he was in court for it. It’s not political, he just raped a woman and that’s illegal to do.


"In March 2024, George Stephanopoulos of ABC News repeatedly made false statements that the jury found Trump liable for rape."

Edit: link:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._Jean_Carroll_v._Donald_J._Trump


Have you read your own link to find out why they were false yet? Patiently waiting for an update.



Bloody hell you guys made me waste time on researching this thing.

Here are some of the links which will source probably all of the stuff I have to say about it:

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/05/05/trump-rape-trial-witness-tracker-00095179

https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/us-dis-crt-sd-new-yor/114642632.html#footnote_ref_6

https://www.newsweek.com/watch-anderson-cooper-interview-judge-blocked-donald-trump-showing-1863998

also wiki link in quoted post.

First of all it was civil trial and as such dint require "beyond reasonable doubt" burden of proof, but only preponderance of the evidence which basically means that chances that he did it, are bigger than he did not. Funnily enough it is often described as a 51% certainty (lol)

Now lets look at the evidence:

Carroll testimony - kinda obvious, but surely not enough.

2 of her friends testimony, that she told them about it. How was that even allowed? thats basically hearsay, and there is no way to proof whether she told them or not.

Jessica Leeds, Natasha Stoynoff - those are unproven allegations as far as I was able to find out. If they were proven they would carry some weight.

Picture of Trump and Carroll from 1987 supposed to prove that Trump lied when he said he doesnt know who she is.

First thing - I was with my wife on quite few weddings of her friends, I bet i have some pictures talking with people which now I would have no clue who they are.

Second thing and more important is Carroll friend testimony itself. Picture is from 1987, her testimony regarding events in 1996:

Q. What did she say after she said, Lisa, you are not going to believe what just happened?

A. E. Jean said that she had, after work that day, she had gone to Bergdorf's to look around, and she was on her way out -- and I believe it was a revolving door -- and she said on the other side of the glass from her going in, as she was going out, Donald Trump said to her, Hey, you're the advice lady. And she said, You're the real estate guy. And he said, You're so good at advice, you are so smart, why don't you help me pick out a present for a friend? So she thought she would, it sounded like a funny thing, this guy, who is famous.

Does that sounds like people who know each other?

Trump saying she is not his type - like really? what does that prove? I did that few times, seems nicer than saying I dont like her.

"Access Hollywood tape" that proves that Trump is horrible human being, not that he raped Carroll. That one at least carry some weight, but it is rather that it is not impossible he did it, than that it is likely he did it.

Security detail and Trump not being able to name anyone from his security from 1996, 23 years later. Also mistaking Carroll for his wife:

"Despite attacking Carroll for not remembering the exact year of the alleged incident, Trump was unable to state the exact years of the beginning or end of any of his marriages when asked, and claimed that he was unsure if he had any extramarital affairs during his first marriage (including with Maples, despite this affair having regularly featured in New York tabloids)."

Second trial:

"Earlier this month, Kaplan ruled that Trump's legal team is not allowed to present the interview to the jury. He also said ahead of the trial that Trump's attorneys are not permitted to argue to the jury that he did not rape or sexually assault Carroll, as this was not relevant to her current defamation case.

"This trial is limited to the issue of damages sustained as a result of the defendant's June 21 and 22, 2019 statements. Those statements already have been determined to have been false, defamatory, and made with constitutional actual malice," Kaplan wrote.

He continued: "The introduction of the Anderson Cooper 360 video needlessly and confusingly would invite the jury to decide this case on the basis of defendant's view that those issues are open to discussion or reconsideration. They are not." "

Now to be very clear: I am not saying he didnt rape her, because I dont know if he did or not. What I am saying is that nothing about this "trial" convinced me he did.

Timing of the case however and the fact that Carroll lawyers were paid by Trump political opponent:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/anafaguy/2023/05/10/what-was-reid-hoffmans-role-in-funding-e-jean-carrolls-case/

"While Hoffman is known for his work founding LinkedIn, he’s also a big Democratic donor, funding a number of Democratic causes, candidates and legal battles, including civil lawsuits filed by the victims of the “Unite the Right” rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, according to a post on LinkedIn."

leads me to believe that it was political hitjob rather than any sort of reasonable trial.




KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States43667 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-10-22 17:36:04
October 22 2025 17:31 GMT
#106494
On October 23 2025 01:54 Razyda wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 19 2025 09:16 KwarK wrote:
On October 19 2025 09:04 Razyda wrote:
On October 19 2025 08:57 micronesia wrote:
Considering Trump's the only president to so blatantly weaponize the criminal justice system so far, there's no need to "both sides" this yet.


You cant be serious now? How many court cases he faced since he started running for president?

You get that he did the things, right? You do understand that, don’t you? Like the court found that he did rape that woman. He is, legally speaking, a rapist. That’s why he was in court for it. It’s not political, he just raped a woman and that’s illegal to do.


Show nested quote +
On October 21 2025 09:17 LightSpectra wrote:
On October 19 2025 10:09 Razyda wrote:
On October 19 2025 09:16 KwarK wrote:
On October 19 2025 09:04 Razyda wrote:
On October 19 2025 08:57 micronesia wrote:
Considering Trump's the only president to so blatantly weaponize the criminal justice system so far, there's no need to "both sides" this yet.


You cant be serious now? How many court cases he faced since he started running for president?

You get that he did the things, right? You do understand that, don’t you? Like the court found that he did rape that woman. He is, legally speaking, a rapist. That’s why he was in court for it. It’s not political, he just raped a woman and that’s illegal to do.


"In March 2024, George Stephanopoulos of ABC News repeatedly made false statements that the jury found Trump liable for rape."

Edit: link:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._Jean_Carroll_v._Donald_J._Trump


Have you read your own link to find out why they were false yet? Patiently waiting for an update.



Bloody hell you guys made me waste time on researching this thing.

Here are some of the links which will source probably all of the stuff I have to say about it:

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/05/05/trump-rape-trial-witness-tracker-00095179

https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/us-dis-crt-sd-new-yor/114642632.html#footnote_ref_6

https://www.newsweek.com/watch-anderson-cooper-interview-judge-blocked-donald-trump-showing-1863998

also wiki link in quoted post.

First of all it was civil trial and as such dint require "beyond reasonable doubt" burden of proof, but only preponderance of the evidence which basically means that chances that he did it, are bigger than he did not. Funnily enough it is often described as a 51% certainty (lol)

Now lets look at the evidence:

Carroll testimony - kinda obvious, but surely not enough.

2 of her friends testimony, that she told them about it. How was that even allowed? thats basically hearsay, and there is no way to proof whether she told them or not.

Jessica Leeds, Natasha Stoynoff - those are unproven allegations as far as I was able to find out. If they were proven they would carry some weight.

Picture of Trump and Carroll from 1987 supposed to prove that Trump lied when he said he doesnt know who she is.

First thing - I was with my wife on quite few weddings of her friends, I bet i have some pictures talking with people which now I would have no clue who they are.

Second thing and more important is Carroll friend testimony itself. Picture is from 1987, her testimony regarding events in 1996:

Q. What did she say after she said, Lisa, you are not going to believe what just happened?

A. E. Jean said that she had, after work that day, she had gone to Bergdorf's to look around, and she was on her way out -- and I believe it was a revolving door -- and she said on the other side of the glass from her going in, as she was going out, Donald Trump said to her, Hey, you're the advice lady. And she said, You're the real estate guy. And he said, You're so good at advice, you are so smart, why don't you help me pick out a present for a friend? So she thought she would, it sounded like a funny thing, this guy, who is famous.

Does that sounds like people who know each other?

Trump saying she is not his type - like really? what does that prove? I did that few times, seems nicer than saying I dont like her.

"Access Hollywood tape" that proves that Trump is horrible human being, not that he raped Carroll. That one at least carry some weight, but it is rather that it is not impossible he did it, than that it is likely he did it.

Security detail and Trump not being able to name anyone from his security from 1996, 23 years later. Also mistaking Carroll for his wife:

"Despite attacking Carroll for not remembering the exact year of the alleged incident, Trump was unable to state the exact years of the beginning or end of any of his marriages when asked, and claimed that he was unsure if he had any extramarital affairs during his first marriage (including with Maples, despite this affair having regularly featured in New York tabloids)."

Second trial:

"Earlier this month, Kaplan ruled that Trump's legal team is not allowed to present the interview to the jury. He also said ahead of the trial that Trump's attorneys are not permitted to argue to the jury that he did not rape or sexually assault Carroll, as this was not relevant to her current defamation case.

"This trial is limited to the issue of damages sustained as a result of the defendant's June 21 and 22, 2019 statements. Those statements already have been determined to have been false, defamatory, and made with constitutional actual malice," Kaplan wrote.

He continued: "The introduction of the Anderson Cooper 360 video needlessly and confusingly would invite the jury to decide this case on the basis of defendant's view that those issues are open to discussion or reconsideration. They are not." "

Now to be very clear: I am not saying he didnt rape her, because I dont know if he did or not. What I am saying is that nothing about this "trial" convinced me he did.

Timing of the case however and the fact that Carroll lawyers were paid by Trump political opponent:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/anafaguy/2023/05/10/what-was-reid-hoffmans-role-in-funding-e-jean-carrolls-case/

"While Hoffman is known for his work founding LinkedIn, he’s also a big Democratic donor, funding a number of Democratic causes, candidates and legal battles, including civil lawsuits filed by the victims of the “Unite the Right” rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, according to a post on LinkedIn."

leads me to believe that it was political hitjob rather than any sort of reasonable trial.





Got it. Court ruled he did it but you still doubt.

So we have two possible scenarios. He’s either in court a lot because of persecution or because he does a lot of crime. The fact that the court found that he did it is, to you, proof of just how extensive the persecution gets.

It’s weird that they keep finding that he did the kind of things he brags about doing though.

I don’t think you’re understanding the restrictions on the second trial either. The second trial was about whether he was lying about the outcome of the first trial, it was not relitigating the matter resolved by the first trial. The outcome of the first trial was already decided. Of course he wasn’t allowed to go in and argue that he wasn’t defaming her because it was all made up and reopen that question, that’d be absurd.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Jankisa
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Croatia1216 Posts
October 22 2025 17:37 GMT
#106495
My take on the Carrol case is that he definitely did everything he was accused of because:

1. He's Donald "grab them by the pussy" Trump
2. He basically confessed to doing this kinds of stuff during his deposition

KAPLAN: And you say – and again this has become very famous – in this video, ‘“I just start kissing them. It’s like a magnet. Just kiss. I don’t even wait. And when you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything. Grab them by the p*ssy. You can do anything.” That’s what you said. Correct?

TRUMP: Well, historically, that’s true with stars.

KAPLAN: It’s true with stars that they can grab women by the p*ssy?

TRUMP: Well, that’s what, if you look over the last million years I guess that’s been largely true. Not always, but largely true. Unfortunately or fortunately.

KAPLAN: And you consider yourself to be a star?

TRUMP: I think you can say that. Yeah.


Nothing else in the case makes it unlikely that he did, indeed, grab the lady in this way, which, weather it constitutes Sexual assault or Rape is just not important at all. He's a piece of shit.

Moving on, 50 % + of the USA hates Trump and if anyone wanted to help someone sue this piece of shit so the lady gets some sort of restitution does not equate to political hit-job, just late justice.

Finally, as someone with a significant other, and a human being, my question is:

Why would anyone:
- vote for
- defend
- spend time researching to try to deny they are a rapist
- support
- cheer on

Someone who said that men grabbing women by the pussy being allowed is "unfortunate or fortunate". How can anyone who has a significant other or a daughter or a mom be OK with that?
So, are you a pessimist? - On my better days. Are you a nihilist? - Not as much as I should be.
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland26341 Posts
October 22 2025 17:48 GMT
#106496
On October 23 2025 01:54 Razyda wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 19 2025 09:16 KwarK wrote:
On October 19 2025 09:04 Razyda wrote:
On October 19 2025 08:57 micronesia wrote:
Considering Trump's the only president to so blatantly weaponize the criminal justice system so far, there's no need to "both sides" this yet.


You cant be serious now? How many court cases he faced since he started running for president?

You get that he did the things, right? You do understand that, don’t you? Like the court found that he did rape that woman. He is, legally speaking, a rapist. That’s why he was in court for it. It’s not political, he just raped a woman and that’s illegal to do.


Show nested quote +
On October 21 2025 09:17 LightSpectra wrote:
On October 19 2025 10:09 Razyda wrote:
On October 19 2025 09:16 KwarK wrote:
On October 19 2025 09:04 Razyda wrote:
On October 19 2025 08:57 micronesia wrote:
Considering Trump's the only president to so blatantly weaponize the criminal justice system so far, there's no need to "both sides" this yet.


You cant be serious now? How many court cases he faced since he started running for president?

You get that he did the things, right? You do understand that, don’t you? Like the court found that he did rape that woman. He is, legally speaking, a rapist. That’s why he was in court for it. It’s not political, he just raped a woman and that’s illegal to do.


"In March 2024, George Stephanopoulos of ABC News repeatedly made false statements that the jury found Trump liable for rape."

Edit: link:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._Jean_Carroll_v._Donald_J._Trump


Have you read your own link to find out why they were false yet? Patiently waiting for an update.



Bloody hell you guys made me waste time on researching this thing.

Here are some of the links which will source probably all of the stuff I have to say about it:

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/05/05/trump-rape-trial-witness-tracker-00095179

https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/us-dis-crt-sd-new-yor/114642632.html#footnote_ref_6

https://www.newsweek.com/watch-anderson-cooper-interview-judge-blocked-donald-trump-showing-1863998

also wiki link in quoted post.

First of all it was civil trial and as such dint require "beyond reasonable doubt" burden of proof, but only preponderance of the evidence which basically means that chances that he did it, are bigger than he did not. Funnily enough it is often described as a 51% certainty (lol)

Now lets look at the evidence:

Carroll testimony - kinda obvious, but surely not enough.

2 of her friends testimony, that she told them about it. How was that even allowed? thats basically hearsay, and there is no way to proof whether she told them or not.

Jessica Leeds, Natasha Stoynoff - those are unproven allegations as far as I was able to find out. If they were proven they would carry some weight.

Picture of Trump and Carroll from 1987 supposed to prove that Trump lied when he said he doesnt know who she is.

First thing - I was with my wife on quite few weddings of her friends, I bet i have some pictures talking with people which now I would have no clue who they are.

Second thing and more important is Carroll friend testimony itself. Picture is from 1987, her testimony regarding events in 1996:

Q. What did she say after she said, Lisa, you are not going to believe what just happened?

A. E. Jean said that she had, after work that day, she had gone to Bergdorf's to look around, and she was on her way out -- and I believe it was a revolving door -- and she said on the other side of the glass from her going in, as she was going out, Donald Trump said to her, Hey, you're the advice lady. And she said, You're the real estate guy. And he said, You're so good at advice, you are so smart, why don't you help me pick out a present for a friend? So she thought she would, it sounded like a funny thing, this guy, who is famous.

Does that sounds like people who know each other?

Trump saying she is not his type - like really? what does that prove? I did that few times, seems nicer than saying I dont like her.

"Access Hollywood tape" that proves that Trump is horrible human being, not that he raped Carroll. That one at least carry some weight, but it is rather that it is not impossible he did it, than that it is likely he did it.

Security detail and Trump not being able to name anyone from his security from 1996, 23 years later. Also mistaking Carroll for his wife:

"Despite attacking Carroll for not remembering the exact year of the alleged incident, Trump was unable to state the exact years of the beginning or end of any of his marriages when asked, and claimed that he was unsure if he had any extramarital affairs during his first marriage (including with Maples, despite this affair having regularly featured in New York tabloids)."

Second trial:

"Earlier this month, Kaplan ruled that Trump's legal team is not allowed to present the interview to the jury. He also said ahead of the trial that Trump's attorneys are not permitted to argue to the jury that he did not rape or sexually assault Carroll, as this was not relevant to her current defamation case.

"This trial is limited to the issue of damages sustained as a result of the defendant's June 21 and 22, 2019 statements. Those statements already have been determined to have been false, defamatory, and made with constitutional actual malice," Kaplan wrote.

He continued: "The introduction of the Anderson Cooper 360 video needlessly and confusingly would invite the jury to decide this case on the basis of defendant's view that those issues are open to discussion or reconsideration. They are not." "

Now to be very clear: I am not saying he didnt rape her, because I dont know if he did or not. What I am saying is that nothing about this "trial" convinced me he did.

Timing of the case however and the fact that Carroll lawyers were paid by Trump political opponent:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/anafaguy/2023/05/10/what-was-reid-hoffmans-role-in-funding-e-jean-carrolls-case/

"While Hoffman is known for his work founding LinkedIn, he’s also a big Democratic donor, funding a number of Democratic causes, candidates and legal battles, including civil lawsuits filed by the victims of the “Unite the Right” rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, according to a post on LinkedIn."

leads me to believe that it was political hitjob rather than any sort of reasonable trial.





What would constitute a ‘reasonable trial’ here then?

There is seemingly no amount of procedural hoops one can jump through for it to be a fair trial for some.

What is the threshold here? Why is Hunter Biden’s laptop fair game but any number of Trump questions a ‘hitjob’
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
Doublemint
Profile Joined July 2011
Austria8722 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-10-22 17:58:41
October 22 2025 17:56 GMT
#106497
On October 23 2025 02:31 KwarK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2025 01:54 Razyda wrote:
On October 19 2025 09:16 KwarK wrote:
On October 19 2025 09:04 Razyda wrote:
On October 19 2025 08:57 micronesia wrote:
Considering Trump's the only president to so blatantly weaponize the criminal justice system so far, there's no need to "both sides" this yet.


You cant be serious now? How many court cases he faced since he started running for president?

You get that he did the things, right? You do understand that, don’t you? Like the court found that he did rape that woman. He is, legally speaking, a rapist. That’s why he was in court for it. It’s not political, he just raped a woman and that’s illegal to do.


On October 21 2025 09:17 LightSpectra wrote:
On October 19 2025 10:09 Razyda wrote:
On October 19 2025 09:16 KwarK wrote:
On October 19 2025 09:04 Razyda wrote:
On October 19 2025 08:57 micronesia wrote:
Considering Trump's the only president to so blatantly weaponize the criminal justice system so far, there's no need to "both sides" this yet.


You cant be serious now? How many court cases he faced since he started running for president?

You get that he did the things, right? You do understand that, don’t you? Like the court found that he did rape that woman. He is, legally speaking, a rapist. That’s why he was in court for it. It’s not political, he just raped a woman and that’s illegal to do.


"In March 2024, George Stephanopoulos of ABC News repeatedly made false statements that the jury found Trump liable for rape."

Edit: link:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._Jean_Carroll_v._Donald_J._Trump


Have you read your own link to find out why they were false yet? Patiently waiting for an update.



Bloody hell you guys made me waste time on researching this thing.

Here are some of the links which will source probably all of the stuff I have to say about it:

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/05/05/trump-rape-trial-witness-tracker-00095179

https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/us-dis-crt-sd-new-yor/114642632.html#footnote_ref_6

https://www.newsweek.com/watch-anderson-cooper-interview-judge-blocked-donald-trump-showing-1863998

also wiki link in quoted post.

First of all it was civil trial and as such dint require "beyond reasonable doubt" burden of proof, but only preponderance of the evidence which basically means that chances that he did it, are bigger than he did not. Funnily enough it is often described as a 51% certainty (lol)

Now lets look at the evidence:

Carroll testimony - kinda obvious, but surely not enough.

2 of her friends testimony, that she told them about it. How was that even allowed? thats basically hearsay, and there is no way to proof whether she told them or not.

Jessica Leeds, Natasha Stoynoff - those are unproven allegations as far as I was able to find out. If they were proven they would carry some weight.

Picture of Trump and Carroll from 1987 supposed to prove that Trump lied when he said he doesnt know who she is.

First thing - I was with my wife on quite few weddings of her friends, I bet i have some pictures talking with people which now I would have no clue who they are.

Second thing and more important is Carroll friend testimony itself. Picture is from 1987, her testimony regarding events in 1996:

Q. What did she say after she said, Lisa, you are not going to believe what just happened?

A. E. Jean said that she had, after work that day, she had gone to Bergdorf's to look around, and she was on her way out -- and I believe it was a revolving door -- and she said on the other side of the glass from her going in, as she was going out, Donald Trump said to her, Hey, you're the advice lady. And she said, You're the real estate guy. And he said, You're so good at advice, you are so smart, why don't you help me pick out a present for a friend? So she thought she would, it sounded like a funny thing, this guy, who is famous.

Does that sounds like people who know each other?

Trump saying she is not his type - like really? what does that prove? I did that few times, seems nicer than saying I dont like her.

"Access Hollywood tape" that proves that Trump is horrible human being, not that he raped Carroll. That one at least carry some weight, but it is rather that it is not impossible he did it, than that it is likely he did it.

Security detail and Trump not being able to name anyone from his security from 1996, 23 years later. Also mistaking Carroll for his wife:

"Despite attacking Carroll for not remembering the exact year of the alleged incident, Trump was unable to state the exact years of the beginning or end of any of his marriages when asked, and claimed that he was unsure if he had any extramarital affairs during his first marriage (including with Maples, despite this affair having regularly featured in New York tabloids)."

Second trial:

"Earlier this month, Kaplan ruled that Trump's legal team is not allowed to present the interview to the jury. He also said ahead of the trial that Trump's attorneys are not permitted to argue to the jury that he did not rape or sexually assault Carroll, as this was not relevant to her current defamation case.

"This trial is limited to the issue of damages sustained as a result of the defendant's June 21 and 22, 2019 statements. Those statements already have been determined to have been false, defamatory, and made with constitutional actual malice," Kaplan wrote.

He continued: "The introduction of the Anderson Cooper 360 video needlessly and confusingly would invite the jury to decide this case on the basis of defendant's view that those issues are open to discussion or reconsideration. They are not." "

Now to be very clear: I am not saying he didnt rape her, because I dont know if he did or not. What I am saying is that nothing about this "trial" convinced me he did.

Timing of the case however and the fact that Carroll lawyers were paid by Trump political opponent:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/anafaguy/2023/05/10/what-was-reid-hoffmans-role-in-funding-e-jean-carrolls-case/

"While Hoffman is known for his work founding LinkedIn, he’s also a big Democratic donor, funding a number of Democratic causes, candidates and legal battles, including civil lawsuits filed by the victims of the “Unite the Right” rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, according to a post on LinkedIn."

leads me to believe that it was political hitjob rather than any sort of reasonable trial.





Got it. Court ruled he did it but you still doubt.

So we have two possible scenarios. He’s either in court a lot because of persecution or because he does a lot of crime. The fact that the court found that he did it is, to you, proof of just how extensive the persecution gets.

It’s weird that they keep finding that he did the kind of things he brags about doing though.

I don’t think you’re understanding the restrictions on the second trial either. The second trial was about whether he was lying about the outcome of the first trial, it was not relitigating the matter resolved by the first trial. The outcome of the first trial was already decided. Of course he wasn’t allowed to go in and argue that he wasn’t defaming her because it was all made up and reopen that question, that’d be absurd.


well in his own words he is a true believer that it was a political hit job. who is gonna argue beliefs, especially with someone prone to growing up Homo Sovieticus?

it is fascinating that Trump is able to deconstruct western foundations like the independence of the judiciary for his own gains & shits and giggles way more effectively than any foreign adversary ever could through propaganda.

again... a championship class proven liar, cheating scumbag is more to be believed than the courts and a group of his peers looking at the evidence and judging him accordingly...

hyper partisanship did a number on people.
Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before the fall.
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States43667 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-10-22 18:24:59
October 22 2025 18:22 GMT
#106498
On October 23 2025 02:56 Doublemint wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2025 02:31 KwarK wrote:
On October 23 2025 01:54 Razyda wrote:
On October 19 2025 09:16 KwarK wrote:
On October 19 2025 09:04 Razyda wrote:
On October 19 2025 08:57 micronesia wrote:
Considering Trump's the only president to so blatantly weaponize the criminal justice system so far, there's no need to "both sides" this yet.


You cant be serious now? How many court cases he faced since he started running for president?

You get that he did the things, right? You do understand that, don’t you? Like the court found that he did rape that woman. He is, legally speaking, a rapist. That’s why he was in court for it. It’s not political, he just raped a woman and that’s illegal to do.


On October 21 2025 09:17 LightSpectra wrote:
On October 19 2025 10:09 Razyda wrote:
On October 19 2025 09:16 KwarK wrote:
On October 19 2025 09:04 Razyda wrote:
On October 19 2025 08:57 micronesia wrote:
Considering Trump's the only president to so blatantly weaponize the criminal justice system so far, there's no need to "both sides" this yet.


You cant be serious now? How many court cases he faced since he started running for president?

You get that he did the things, right? You do understand that, don’t you? Like the court found that he did rape that woman. He is, legally speaking, a rapist. That’s why he was in court for it. It’s not political, he just raped a woman and that’s illegal to do.


"In March 2024, George Stephanopoulos of ABC News repeatedly made false statements that the jury found Trump liable for rape."

Edit: link:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._Jean_Carroll_v._Donald_J._Trump


Have you read your own link to find out why they were false yet? Patiently waiting for an update.



Bloody hell you guys made me waste time on researching this thing.

Here are some of the links which will source probably all of the stuff I have to say about it:

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/05/05/trump-rape-trial-witness-tracker-00095179

https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/us-dis-crt-sd-new-yor/114642632.html#footnote_ref_6

https://www.newsweek.com/watch-anderson-cooper-interview-judge-blocked-donald-trump-showing-1863998

also wiki link in quoted post.

First of all it was civil trial and as such dint require "beyond reasonable doubt" burden of proof, but only preponderance of the evidence which basically means that chances that he did it, are bigger than he did not. Funnily enough it is often described as a 51% certainty (lol)

Now lets look at the evidence:

Carroll testimony - kinda obvious, but surely not enough.

2 of her friends testimony, that she told them about it. How was that even allowed? thats basically hearsay, and there is no way to proof whether she told them or not.

Jessica Leeds, Natasha Stoynoff - those are unproven allegations as far as I was able to find out. If they were proven they would carry some weight.

Picture of Trump and Carroll from 1987 supposed to prove that Trump lied when he said he doesnt know who she is.

First thing - I was with my wife on quite few weddings of her friends, I bet i have some pictures talking with people which now I would have no clue who they are.

Second thing and more important is Carroll friend testimony itself. Picture is from 1987, her testimony regarding events in 1996:

Q. What did she say after she said, Lisa, you are not going to believe what just happened?

A. E. Jean said that she had, after work that day, she had gone to Bergdorf's to look around, and she was on her way out -- and I believe it was a revolving door -- and she said on the other side of the glass from her going in, as she was going out, Donald Trump said to her, Hey, you're the advice lady. And she said, You're the real estate guy. And he said, You're so good at advice, you are so smart, why don't you help me pick out a present for a friend? So she thought she would, it sounded like a funny thing, this guy, who is famous.

Does that sounds like people who know each other?

Trump saying she is not his type - like really? what does that prove? I did that few times, seems nicer than saying I dont like her.

"Access Hollywood tape" that proves that Trump is horrible human being, not that he raped Carroll. That one at least carry some weight, but it is rather that it is not impossible he did it, than that it is likely he did it.

Security detail and Trump not being able to name anyone from his security from 1996, 23 years later. Also mistaking Carroll for his wife:

"Despite attacking Carroll for not remembering the exact year of the alleged incident, Trump was unable to state the exact years of the beginning or end of any of his marriages when asked, and claimed that he was unsure if he had any extramarital affairs during his first marriage (including with Maples, despite this affair having regularly featured in New York tabloids)."

Second trial:

"Earlier this month, Kaplan ruled that Trump's legal team is not allowed to present the interview to the jury. He also said ahead of the trial that Trump's attorneys are not permitted to argue to the jury that he did not rape or sexually assault Carroll, as this was not relevant to her current defamation case.

"This trial is limited to the issue of damages sustained as a result of the defendant's June 21 and 22, 2019 statements. Those statements already have been determined to have been false, defamatory, and made with constitutional actual malice," Kaplan wrote.

He continued: "The introduction of the Anderson Cooper 360 video needlessly and confusingly would invite the jury to decide this case on the basis of defendant's view that those issues are open to discussion or reconsideration. They are not." "

Now to be very clear: I am not saying he didnt rape her, because I dont know if he did or not. What I am saying is that nothing about this "trial" convinced me he did.

Timing of the case however and the fact that Carroll lawyers were paid by Trump political opponent:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/anafaguy/2023/05/10/what-was-reid-hoffmans-role-in-funding-e-jean-carrolls-case/

"While Hoffman is known for his work founding LinkedIn, he’s also a big Democratic donor, funding a number of Democratic causes, candidates and legal battles, including civil lawsuits filed by the victims of the “Unite the Right” rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, according to a post on LinkedIn."

leads me to believe that it was political hitjob rather than any sort of reasonable trial.





Got it. Court ruled he did it but you still doubt.

So we have two possible scenarios. He’s either in court a lot because of persecution or because he does a lot of crime. The fact that the court found that he did it is, to you, proof of just how extensive the persecution gets.

It’s weird that they keep finding that he did the kind of things he brags about doing though.

I don’t think you’re understanding the restrictions on the second trial either. The second trial was about whether he was lying about the outcome of the first trial, it was not relitigating the matter resolved by the first trial. The outcome of the first trial was already decided. Of course he wasn’t allowed to go in and argue that he wasn’t defaming her because it was all made up and reopen that question, that’d be absurd.


well in his own words he is a true believer that it was a political hit job. who is gonna argue beliefs, especially with someone prone to growing up Homo Sovieticus?

it is fascinating that Trump is able to deconstruct western foundations like the independence of the judiciary for his own gains & shits and giggles way more effectively than any foreign adversary ever could through propaganda.

again... a championship class proven liar, cheating scumbag is more to be believed than the courts and a group of his peers looking at the evidence and judging him accordingly...

hyper partisanship did a number on people.

I also really like his characterization that he was being made to "waste time" learning about a subject to respond to people who had a problem with his assertions on that subject.

To him the problem wasn't that he didn't learn about it before making the assertions.
To him the waste of time wasn't the time he spent posting assertions before having done any research about the subject.

No, to him that was all fine, that was time well spent. It was all stuff that he felt to be true, despite not yet having wasted his time looking into it. It was only after people who knew more about the issue than him told him that he was wrong about the issue that he was forced to "waste time" learning about it.

It's one of those classic telling on yourself moments.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland26341 Posts
October 22 2025 18:33 GMT
#106499
On October 23 2025 03:22 KwarK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2025 02:56 Doublemint wrote:
On October 23 2025 02:31 KwarK wrote:
On October 23 2025 01:54 Razyda wrote:
On October 19 2025 09:16 KwarK wrote:
On October 19 2025 09:04 Razyda wrote:
On October 19 2025 08:57 micronesia wrote:
Considering Trump's the only president to so blatantly weaponize the criminal justice system so far, there's no need to "both sides" this yet.


You cant be serious now? How many court cases he faced since he started running for president?

You get that he did the things, right? You do understand that, don’t you? Like the court found that he did rape that woman. He is, legally speaking, a rapist. That’s why he was in court for it. It’s not political, he just raped a woman and that’s illegal to do.


On October 21 2025 09:17 LightSpectra wrote:
On October 19 2025 10:09 Razyda wrote:
On October 19 2025 09:16 KwarK wrote:
On October 19 2025 09:04 Razyda wrote:
On October 19 2025 08:57 micronesia wrote:
Considering Trump's the only president to so blatantly weaponize the criminal justice system so far, there's no need to "both sides" this yet.


You cant be serious now? How many court cases he faced since he started running for president?

You get that he did the things, right? You do understand that, don’t you? Like the court found that he did rape that woman. He is, legally speaking, a rapist. That’s why he was in court for it. It’s not political, he just raped a woman and that’s illegal to do.


"In March 2024, George Stephanopoulos of ABC News repeatedly made false statements that the jury found Trump liable for rape."

Edit: link:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._Jean_Carroll_v._Donald_J._Trump


Have you read your own link to find out why they were false yet? Patiently waiting for an update.



Bloody hell you guys made me waste time on researching this thing.

Here are some of the links which will source probably all of the stuff I have to say about it:

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/05/05/trump-rape-trial-witness-tracker-00095179

https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/us-dis-crt-sd-new-yor/114642632.html#footnote_ref_6

https://www.newsweek.com/watch-anderson-cooper-interview-judge-blocked-donald-trump-showing-1863998

also wiki link in quoted post.

First of all it was civil trial and as such dint require "beyond reasonable doubt" burden of proof, but only preponderance of the evidence which basically means that chances that he did it, are bigger than he did not. Funnily enough it is often described as a 51% certainty (lol)

Now lets look at the evidence:

Carroll testimony - kinda obvious, but surely not enough.

2 of her friends testimony, that she told them about it. How was that even allowed? thats basically hearsay, and there is no way to proof whether she told them or not.

Jessica Leeds, Natasha Stoynoff - those are unproven allegations as far as I was able to find out. If they were proven they would carry some weight.

Picture of Trump and Carroll from 1987 supposed to prove that Trump lied when he said he doesnt know who she is.

First thing - I was with my wife on quite few weddings of her friends, I bet i have some pictures talking with people which now I would have no clue who they are.

Second thing and more important is Carroll friend testimony itself. Picture is from 1987, her testimony regarding events in 1996:

Q. What did she say after she said, Lisa, you are not going to believe what just happened?

A. E. Jean said that she had, after work that day, she had gone to Bergdorf's to look around, and she was on her way out -- and I believe it was a revolving door -- and she said on the other side of the glass from her going in, as she was going out, Donald Trump said to her, Hey, you're the advice lady. And she said, You're the real estate guy. And he said, You're so good at advice, you are so smart, why don't you help me pick out a present for a friend? So she thought she would, it sounded like a funny thing, this guy, who is famous.

Does that sounds like people who know each other?

Trump saying she is not his type - like really? what does that prove? I did that few times, seems nicer than saying I dont like her.

"Access Hollywood tape" that proves that Trump is horrible human being, not that he raped Carroll. That one at least carry some weight, but it is rather that it is not impossible he did it, than that it is likely he did it.

Security detail and Trump not being able to name anyone from his security from 1996, 23 years later. Also mistaking Carroll for his wife:

"Despite attacking Carroll for not remembering the exact year of the alleged incident, Trump was unable to state the exact years of the beginning or end of any of his marriages when asked, and claimed that he was unsure if he had any extramarital affairs during his first marriage (including with Maples, despite this affair having regularly featured in New York tabloids)."

Second trial:

"Earlier this month, Kaplan ruled that Trump's legal team is not allowed to present the interview to the jury. He also said ahead of the trial that Trump's attorneys are not permitted to argue to the jury that he did not rape or sexually assault Carroll, as this was not relevant to her current defamation case.

"This trial is limited to the issue of damages sustained as a result of the defendant's June 21 and 22, 2019 statements. Those statements already have been determined to have been false, defamatory, and made with constitutional actual malice," Kaplan wrote.

He continued: "The introduction of the Anderson Cooper 360 video needlessly and confusingly would invite the jury to decide this case on the basis of defendant's view that those issues are open to discussion or reconsideration. They are not." "

Now to be very clear: I am not saying he didnt rape her, because I dont know if he did or not. What I am saying is that nothing about this "trial" convinced me he did.

Timing of the case however and the fact that Carroll lawyers were paid by Trump political opponent:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/anafaguy/2023/05/10/what-was-reid-hoffmans-role-in-funding-e-jean-carrolls-case/

"While Hoffman is known for his work founding LinkedIn, he’s also a big Democratic donor, funding a number of Democratic causes, candidates and legal battles, including civil lawsuits filed by the victims of the “Unite the Right” rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, according to a post on LinkedIn."

leads me to believe that it was political hitjob rather than any sort of reasonable trial.





Got it. Court ruled he did it but you still doubt.

So we have two possible scenarios. He’s either in court a lot because of persecution or because he does a lot of crime. The fact that the court found that he did it is, to you, proof of just how extensive the persecution gets.

It’s weird that they keep finding that he did the kind of things he brags about doing though.

I don’t think you’re understanding the restrictions on the second trial either. The second trial was about whether he was lying about the outcome of the first trial, it was not relitigating the matter resolved by the first trial. The outcome of the first trial was already decided. Of course he wasn’t allowed to go in and argue that he wasn’t defaming her because it was all made up and reopen that question, that’d be absurd.


well in his own words he is a true believer that it was a political hit job. who is gonna argue beliefs, especially with someone prone to growing up Homo Sovieticus?

it is fascinating that Trump is able to deconstruct western foundations like the independence of the judiciary for his own gains & shits and giggles way more effectively than any foreign adversary ever could through propaganda.

again... a championship class proven liar, cheating scumbag is more to be believed than the courts and a group of his peers looking at the evidence and judging him accordingly...

hyper partisanship did a number on people.

I also really like his characterization that he was being made to "waste time" learning about a subject to respond to people who had a problem with his assertions on that subject.

To him the problem wasn't that he didn't learn about it before making the assertions.
To him the waste of time wasn't the time he spent posting assertions before having done any research about the subject.

No, to him that was all fine, that was time well spent. It was all stuff that he felt to be true, despite not yet having wasted his time looking into it. It was only after people who knew more about the issue than him told him that he was wrong about the issue that he was forced to "waste time" learning about it.

It's one of those classic telling on yourself moments.

If I’m happy to gargle Trump’s balls, that must mean you’re happy to gargle Biden’s balls. Or whoever’s.

This is where we’re at.

It’s not smart argumentation. If it weren’t for things like Trump being in power and the populist right making inroads in Europe, it wouldn’t even be something worth bothering with.

We are forced to consider it on account of it being currently impactful, but that doesn’t stop it being mostly nonsense. Complete and utter bollocks though it might be.
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
Jankisa
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Croatia1216 Posts
October 22 2025 18:37 GMT
#106500
I'm really wondering, can someone, anyone, and I know this thread kind of got slow so maybe no one really posts who spends any time defending the insanity, but how does a Trump supporter explain this.

Trump will, apparently, use his influence over DOJ to get the United States a $ 240 million for investigating and suing him over the stolen documents case.

Now, let's just put aside the facts that there are pictures of the documents in the toilet and him saying on record that he did it on propose.

How does anyone in their right mind square him taking a quarter of a billion out of their pockets while he's already a multi billionaire and him being a patriot who loves his country and is trying to "save it".

I mean that money could have, I don't know, paid for 10 more missiles to take out drug gangs.
It could have funded hundreds of ICE agents getting those illegals out.
It could have provided subsidies for businesses affected by patriotic tariffs.

But it will go directly to his pocket. How is that compatible with someone who is "working for the people"?

I mean I know I'm shouting in to the void but still, how?
So, are you a pessimist? - On my better days. Are you a nihilist? - Not as much as I should be.
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