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When the situation becomes shit, self preservation kicks in. What else is new under the sun?
The actual problem the West is facing now js: the situation is fucking amazing (more or less) but could be so much better, yet self preservation is used by a select few to heavily lean on the shoulders of many.
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On September 25 2025 18:07 EnDeR_ wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2025 17:47 Razyda wrote:On September 25 2025 02:09 KwarK wrote:On September 25 2025 01:57 Razyda wrote:
technically it is not even stealing as he is one of the factory owners Citation needed. On September 25 2025 01:57 Razyda wrote:
In capitalism factory would be focused on profit, hence this practice would be cut short. Citation needed. On September 25 2025 01:57 Razyda wrote:
In socialism factory focus would be on production - so it would just keep requesting new laptops Citation needed. The problem with your premise is that it's not at all clear whether you've ever actually been outside or met another human being. This idea that the workers who own the factory would bankrupt it as they order ever increasing quantities of laptops only to watch the workers steal them is baffling. But let's set that to one side and assume that that is a real thing that would actually happen. In the capitalist factory that is owned by some hedge fund on the other side of the country, what exactly happens to immediately cut it short? And why is that something that couldn't happen if, instead of being owned by investors in a fund, it was owned by the workers who were present inside of the factory. What you've said essentially comes down to "the more involved the owners are in the operations of the factory the greater the opportunity for theft". It's such a weird argument that you've made that I'm genuinely not sure what to make of it. It's like the perfectly rational perfectly informed consumer argument. At a certain point the rebuttal is just "have you literally never met a human being?" Every person who has ever worked at a private company has witnessed incompetence, misuse of assets, inefficiency etc. and so it's weird that you're choosing to simply disbelieve in them. Kwark the problem you have, is that you have not a clue what you are talking about. What I am talking about is what I have seen applied on national scale. Did you know that it could take up to ten years to build small block of flats (3 floors height) while using amount of materials with which you could build small city? I personally saw people draining fuel from transport trucks to put it in their cars, taking materials and tools from construction site to use for side jobs they were doing privately. And this werent isolated accidents, it was common thing, across every industry. Quite frankly your: " it's not at all clear whether you've ever actually been outside or met another human being" applies to you in case of socialism. Because you are the one who never went outside in socialist country, or met another human being in socialist country. All you have is some ideas and theories. You're just describing rampant corruption. You can have that regardless of the political approach.
Essentially yes. However this cant happen in private company, as it will simply go under.
It can only exists in state funded companies. For example I am pretty sure US have something similar going on with Pentagon (yeah I know not exactly company) however on much smaller scale.
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On September 25 2025 17:47 Razyda wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2025 02:09 KwarK wrote:On September 25 2025 01:57 Razyda wrote:
technically it is not even stealing as he is one of the factory owners Citation needed. On September 25 2025 01:57 Razyda wrote:
In capitalism factory would be focused on profit, hence this practice would be cut short. Citation needed. On September 25 2025 01:57 Razyda wrote:
In socialism factory focus would be on production - so it would just keep requesting new laptops Citation needed. The problem with your premise is that it's not at all clear whether you've ever actually been outside or met another human being. This idea that the workers who own the factory would bankrupt it as they order ever increasing quantities of laptops only to watch the workers steal them is baffling. But let's set that to one side and assume that that is a real thing that would actually happen. In the capitalist factory that is owned by some hedge fund on the other side of the country, what exactly happens to immediately cut it short? And why is that something that couldn't happen if, instead of being owned by investors in a fund, it was owned by the workers who were present inside of the factory. What you've said essentially comes down to "the more involved the owners are in the operations of the factory the greater the opportunity for theft". It's such a weird argument that you've made that I'm genuinely not sure what to make of it. It's like the perfectly rational perfectly informed consumer argument. At a certain point the rebuttal is just "have you literally never met a human being?" Every person who has ever worked at a private company has witnessed incompetence, misuse of assets, inefficiency etc. and so it's weird that you're choosing to simply disbelieve in them. Kwark the problem you have, is that you have not a clue what you are talking about. What I am talking about is what I have seen applied on national scale. Did you know that it could take up to ten years to build small block of flats (3 floors height) while using amount of materials with which you could build small city? I personally saw people draining fuel from transport trucks to put it in their cars, taking materials and tools from construction site to use for side jobs they were doing privately. And this werent isolated accidents, it was common thing, across every industry. Quite frankly your: " it's not at all clear whether you've ever actually been outside or met another human being" applies to you in case of socialism. Because you are the one who never went outside in socialist country, or met another human being in socialist country. All you have is some ideas and theories. You made the claim that in worker co-ops people would constantly steal and no one would do anything about it. While in capitalist owned industries they would be stopped.
Kwark has been repeatedly showing you this is blatantly false and your just not getting it. Your own example in this post is the very proof Kwark has been feeding you, that this shit happens all the time in capitalist owned industries, which counters the point you yourself made at the start of this discussion.
But hey. we all learned you can't actually read so I'm sure you will prattle on about some other bullshit in response.
On September 25 2025 18:28 Razyda wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2025 18:07 EnDeR_ wrote:On September 25 2025 17:47 Razyda wrote:On September 25 2025 02:09 KwarK wrote:On September 25 2025 01:57 Razyda wrote:
technically it is not even stealing as he is one of the factory owners Citation needed. On September 25 2025 01:57 Razyda wrote:
In capitalism factory would be focused on profit, hence this practice would be cut short. Citation needed. On September 25 2025 01:57 Razyda wrote:
In socialism factory focus would be on production - so it would just keep requesting new laptops Citation needed. The problem with your premise is that it's not at all clear whether you've ever actually been outside or met another human being. This idea that the workers who own the factory would bankrupt it as they order ever increasing quantities of laptops only to watch the workers steal them is baffling. But let's set that to one side and assume that that is a real thing that would actually happen. In the capitalist factory that is owned by some hedge fund on the other side of the country, what exactly happens to immediately cut it short? And why is that something that couldn't happen if, instead of being owned by investors in a fund, it was owned by the workers who were present inside of the factory. What you've said essentially comes down to "the more involved the owners are in the operations of the factory the greater the opportunity for theft". It's such a weird argument that you've made that I'm genuinely not sure what to make of it. It's like the perfectly rational perfectly informed consumer argument. At a certain point the rebuttal is just "have you literally never met a human being?" Every person who has ever worked at a private company has witnessed incompetence, misuse of assets, inefficiency etc. and so it's weird that you're choosing to simply disbelieve in them. Kwark the problem you have, is that you have not a clue what you are talking about. What I am talking about is what I have seen applied on national scale. Did you know that it could take up to ten years to build small block of flats (3 floors height) while using amount of materials with which you could build small city? I personally saw people draining fuel from transport trucks to put it in their cars, taking materials and tools from construction site to use for side jobs they were doing privately. And this werent isolated accidents, it was common thing, across every industry. Quite frankly your: " it's not at all clear whether you've ever actually been outside or met another human being" applies to you in case of socialism. Because you are the one who never went outside in socialist country, or met another human being in socialist country. All you have is some ideas and theories. You're just describing rampant corruption. You can have that regardless of the political approach. Essentially yes. However this cant happen in private company, as it will simply go under. It can only exists in state funded companies. For example I am pretty sure US have something similar going on with Pentagon (yeah I know not exactly company) however on much smaller scale. Holy shit, your still not getting it. You see it happen in a private company all the time in one post and claim it can't possible happen in the next.
1+1 is no longer 2 in your head?
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y4de02x3wo
Is it a realistic possibility that the US Government is going to go into shut down, or will the Democrats fold?
This seems like the kind of tactic that the Republicans have been perfectly happy to use to get their way when a Democrat has been in the White House, but that Democrats are unwilling to use when a Republican is in the White House.
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On September 25 2025 18:30 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2025 17:47 Razyda wrote:On September 25 2025 02:09 KwarK wrote:On September 25 2025 01:57 Razyda wrote:
technically it is not even stealing as he is one of the factory owners Citation needed. On September 25 2025 01:57 Razyda wrote:
In capitalism factory would be focused on profit, hence this practice would be cut short. Citation needed. On September 25 2025 01:57 Razyda wrote:
In socialism factory focus would be on production - so it would just keep requesting new laptops Citation needed. The problem with your premise is that it's not at all clear whether you've ever actually been outside or met another human being. This idea that the workers who own the factory would bankrupt it as they order ever increasing quantities of laptops only to watch the workers steal them is baffling. But let's set that to one side and assume that that is a real thing that would actually happen. In the capitalist factory that is owned by some hedge fund on the other side of the country, what exactly happens to immediately cut it short? And why is that something that couldn't happen if, instead of being owned by investors in a fund, it was owned by the workers who were present inside of the factory. What you've said essentially comes down to "the more involved the owners are in the operations of the factory the greater the opportunity for theft". It's such a weird argument that you've made that I'm genuinely not sure what to make of it. It's like the perfectly rational perfectly informed consumer argument. At a certain point the rebuttal is just "have you literally never met a human being?" Every person who has ever worked at a private company has witnessed incompetence, misuse of assets, inefficiency etc. and so it's weird that you're choosing to simply disbelieve in them. Kwark the problem you have, is that you have not a clue what you are talking about. What I am talking about is what I have seen applied on national scale. Did you know that it could take up to ten years to build small block of flats (3 floors height) while using amount of materials with which you could build small city? I personally saw people draining fuel from transport trucks to put it in their cars, taking materials and tools from construction site to use for side jobs they were doing privately. And this werent isolated accidents, it was common thing, across every industry. Quite frankly your: " it's not at all clear whether you've ever actually been outside or met another human being" applies to you in case of socialism. Because you are the one who never went outside in socialist country, or met another human being in socialist country. All you have is some ideas and theories. You made the claim that in worker co-ops people would constantly steal and no one would do anything about it. While in capitalist owned industries they would be stopped. Kwark has been repeatedly showing you this is blatantly false and your just not getting it. Your own example in this post is the very proof Kwark has been feeding you, that this shit happens all the time in capitalist owned industries, which counters the point you yourself made at the start of this discussion. But hey. we all learned you can't actually read so I'm sure you will prattle on about some other bullshit in response. Show nested quote +On September 25 2025 18:28 Razyda wrote:On September 25 2025 18:07 EnDeR_ wrote:On September 25 2025 17:47 Razyda wrote:On September 25 2025 02:09 KwarK wrote:On September 25 2025 01:57 Razyda wrote:
technically it is not even stealing as he is one of the factory owners Citation needed. On September 25 2025 01:57 Razyda wrote:
In capitalism factory would be focused on profit, hence this practice would be cut short. Citation needed. On September 25 2025 01:57 Razyda wrote:
In socialism factory focus would be on production - so it would just keep requesting new laptops Citation needed. The problem with your premise is that it's not at all clear whether you've ever actually been outside or met another human being. This idea that the workers who own the factory would bankrupt it as they order ever increasing quantities of laptops only to watch the workers steal them is baffling. But let's set that to one side and assume that that is a real thing that would actually happen. In the capitalist factory that is owned by some hedge fund on the other side of the country, what exactly happens to immediately cut it short? And why is that something that couldn't happen if, instead of being owned by investors in a fund, it was owned by the workers who were present inside of the factory. What you've said essentially comes down to "the more involved the owners are in the operations of the factory the greater the opportunity for theft". It's such a weird argument that you've made that I'm genuinely not sure what to make of it. It's like the perfectly rational perfectly informed consumer argument. At a certain point the rebuttal is just "have you literally never met a human being?" Every person who has ever worked at a private company has witnessed incompetence, misuse of assets, inefficiency etc. and so it's weird that you're choosing to simply disbelieve in them. Kwark the problem you have, is that you have not a clue what you are talking about. What I am talking about is what I have seen applied on national scale. Did you know that it could take up to ten years to build small block of flats (3 floors height) while using amount of materials with which you could build small city? I personally saw people draining fuel from transport trucks to put it in their cars, taking materials and tools from construction site to use for side jobs they were doing privately. And this werent isolated accidents, it was common thing, across every industry. Quite frankly your: " it's not at all clear whether you've ever actually been outside or met another human being" applies to you in case of socialism. Because you are the one who never went outside in socialist country, or met another human being in socialist country. All you have is some ideas and theories. You're just describing rampant corruption. You can have that regardless of the political approach. Essentially yes. However this cant happen in private company, as it will simply go under. It can only exists in state funded companies. For example I am pretty sure US have something similar going on with Pentagon (yeah I know not exactly company) however on much smaller scale. Holy shit, your still not getting it. You see it happen in a private company all the time in one post and claim it can't possible happen in the next. 1+1 is no longer 2 in your head?
Dude what you are unable to grasp is the scale of it. It is not a manager nephew, owner daughter kind of stuff. It is Every, Single, Person. Surely you must be able to understand that private company will go bankrupt if everyone there will just keep taking company stuff, while doing barely any work?
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The question is who would get the blame. Normally Republicans are being unreasonable and they largely get the blame for a shutdown they caused. I don't know how the general public is viewing the current situation.
But I don't think the government mass firing people is going to help Republicans win the optics war over a shutdown...
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On September 25 2025 18:55 Razyda wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2025 18:30 Gorsameth wrote:On September 25 2025 17:47 Razyda wrote:On September 25 2025 02:09 KwarK wrote:On September 25 2025 01:57 Razyda wrote:
technically it is not even stealing as he is one of the factory owners Citation needed. On September 25 2025 01:57 Razyda wrote:
In capitalism factory would be focused on profit, hence this practice would be cut short. Citation needed. On September 25 2025 01:57 Razyda wrote:
In socialism factory focus would be on production - so it would just keep requesting new laptops Citation needed. The problem with your premise is that it's not at all clear whether you've ever actually been outside or met another human being. This idea that the workers who own the factory would bankrupt it as they order ever increasing quantities of laptops only to watch the workers steal them is baffling. But let's set that to one side and assume that that is a real thing that would actually happen. In the capitalist factory that is owned by some hedge fund on the other side of the country, what exactly happens to immediately cut it short? And why is that something that couldn't happen if, instead of being owned by investors in a fund, it was owned by the workers who were present inside of the factory. What you've said essentially comes down to "the more involved the owners are in the operations of the factory the greater the opportunity for theft". It's such a weird argument that you've made that I'm genuinely not sure what to make of it. It's like the perfectly rational perfectly informed consumer argument. At a certain point the rebuttal is just "have you literally never met a human being?" Every person who has ever worked at a private company has witnessed incompetence, misuse of assets, inefficiency etc. and so it's weird that you're choosing to simply disbelieve in them. Kwark the problem you have, is that you have not a clue what you are talking about. What I am talking about is what I have seen applied on national scale. Did you know that it could take up to ten years to build small block of flats (3 floors height) while using amount of materials with which you could build small city? I personally saw people draining fuel from transport trucks to put it in their cars, taking materials and tools from construction site to use for side jobs they were doing privately. And this werent isolated accidents, it was common thing, across every industry. Quite frankly your: " it's not at all clear whether you've ever actually been outside or met another human being" applies to you in case of socialism. Because you are the one who never went outside in socialist country, or met another human being in socialist country. All you have is some ideas and theories. You made the claim that in worker co-ops people would constantly steal and no one would do anything about it. While in capitalist owned industries they would be stopped. Kwark has been repeatedly showing you this is blatantly false and your just not getting it. Your own example in this post is the very proof Kwark has been feeding you, that this shit happens all the time in capitalist owned industries, which counters the point you yourself made at the start of this discussion. But hey. we all learned you can't actually read so I'm sure you will prattle on about some other bullshit in response. On September 25 2025 18:28 Razyda wrote:On September 25 2025 18:07 EnDeR_ wrote:On September 25 2025 17:47 Razyda wrote:On September 25 2025 02:09 KwarK wrote:On September 25 2025 01:57 Razyda wrote:
technically it is not even stealing as he is one of the factory owners Citation needed. On September 25 2025 01:57 Razyda wrote:
In capitalism factory would be focused on profit, hence this practice would be cut short. Citation needed. On September 25 2025 01:57 Razyda wrote:
In socialism factory focus would be on production - so it would just keep requesting new laptops Citation needed. The problem with your premise is that it's not at all clear whether you've ever actually been outside or met another human being. This idea that the workers who own the factory would bankrupt it as they order ever increasing quantities of laptops only to watch the workers steal them is baffling. But let's set that to one side and assume that that is a real thing that would actually happen. In the capitalist factory that is owned by some hedge fund on the other side of the country, what exactly happens to immediately cut it short? And why is that something that couldn't happen if, instead of being owned by investors in a fund, it was owned by the workers who were present inside of the factory. What you've said essentially comes down to "the more involved the owners are in the operations of the factory the greater the opportunity for theft". It's such a weird argument that you've made that I'm genuinely not sure what to make of it. It's like the perfectly rational perfectly informed consumer argument. At a certain point the rebuttal is just "have you literally never met a human being?" Every person who has ever worked at a private company has witnessed incompetence, misuse of assets, inefficiency etc. and so it's weird that you're choosing to simply disbelieve in them. Kwark the problem you have, is that you have not a clue what you are talking about. What I am talking about is what I have seen applied on national scale. Did you know that it could take up to ten years to build small block of flats (3 floors height) while using amount of materials with which you could build small city? I personally saw people draining fuel from transport trucks to put it in their cars, taking materials and tools from construction site to use for side jobs they were doing privately. And this werent isolated accidents, it was common thing, across every industry. Quite frankly your: " it's not at all clear whether you've ever actually been outside or met another human being" applies to you in case of socialism. Because you are the one who never went outside in socialist country, or met another human being in socialist country. All you have is some ideas and theories. You're just describing rampant corruption. You can have that regardless of the political approach. Essentially yes. However this cant happen in private company, as it will simply go under. It can only exists in state funded companies. For example I am pretty sure US have something similar going on with Pentagon (yeah I know not exactly company) however on much smaller scale. Holy shit, your still not getting it. You see it happen in a private company all the time in one post and claim it can't possible happen in the next. 1+1 is no longer 2 in your head? Dude what you are unable to grasp is the scale of it. It is not a manager nephew, owner daughter kind of stuff. It is Every, Single, Person. Surely you must be able to understand that private company will go bankrupt if everyone there will just keep taking company stuff, while doing barely any work?
Yes Razyda, if a company follows a cooperative model based on a more socialist ideal, the workers would stop working and start stealing. Is that what you want to hear? Because if that's what you want to hear, I can tell you exactly that and nothing else until you're happy.
Something tells me you want to be happy and that's why you're arguing with us.
I on the other hand don't care what makes me happy in politics. I care about what's true.
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On September 25 2025 18:55 Razyda wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2025 18:30 Gorsameth wrote:On September 25 2025 17:47 Razyda wrote:On September 25 2025 02:09 KwarK wrote:On September 25 2025 01:57 Razyda wrote:
technically it is not even stealing as he is one of the factory owners Citation needed. On September 25 2025 01:57 Razyda wrote:
In capitalism factory would be focused on profit, hence this practice would be cut short. Citation needed. On September 25 2025 01:57 Razyda wrote:
In socialism factory focus would be on production - so it would just keep requesting new laptops Citation needed. The problem with your premise is that it's not at all clear whether you've ever actually been outside or met another human being. This idea that the workers who own the factory would bankrupt it as they order ever increasing quantities of laptops only to watch the workers steal them is baffling. But let's set that to one side and assume that that is a real thing that would actually happen. In the capitalist factory that is owned by some hedge fund on the other side of the country, what exactly happens to immediately cut it short? And why is that something that couldn't happen if, instead of being owned by investors in a fund, it was owned by the workers who were present inside of the factory. What you've said essentially comes down to "the more involved the owners are in the operations of the factory the greater the opportunity for theft". It's such a weird argument that you've made that I'm genuinely not sure what to make of it. It's like the perfectly rational perfectly informed consumer argument. At a certain point the rebuttal is just "have you literally never met a human being?" Every person who has ever worked at a private company has witnessed incompetence, misuse of assets, inefficiency etc. and so it's weird that you're choosing to simply disbelieve in them. Kwark the problem you have, is that you have not a clue what you are talking about. What I am talking about is what I have seen applied on national scale. Did you know that it could take up to ten years to build small block of flats (3 floors height) while using amount of materials with which you could build small city? I personally saw people draining fuel from transport trucks to put it in their cars, taking materials and tools from construction site to use for side jobs they were doing privately. And this werent isolated accidents, it was common thing, across every industry. Quite frankly your: " it's not at all clear whether you've ever actually been outside or met another human being" applies to you in case of socialism. Because you are the one who never went outside in socialist country, or met another human being in socialist country. All you have is some ideas and theories. You made the claim that in worker co-ops people would constantly steal and no one would do anything about it. While in capitalist owned industries they would be stopped. Kwark has been repeatedly showing you this is blatantly false and your just not getting it. Your own example in this post is the very proof Kwark has been feeding you, that this shit happens all the time in capitalist owned industries, which counters the point you yourself made at the start of this discussion. But hey. we all learned you can't actually read so I'm sure you will prattle on about some other bullshit in response. On September 25 2025 18:28 Razyda wrote:On September 25 2025 18:07 EnDeR_ wrote:On September 25 2025 17:47 Razyda wrote:On September 25 2025 02:09 KwarK wrote:On September 25 2025 01:57 Razyda wrote:
technically it is not even stealing as he is one of the factory owners Citation needed. On September 25 2025 01:57 Razyda wrote:
In capitalism factory would be focused on profit, hence this practice would be cut short. Citation needed. On September 25 2025 01:57 Razyda wrote:
In socialism factory focus would be on production - so it would just keep requesting new laptops Citation needed. The problem with your premise is that it's not at all clear whether you've ever actually been outside or met another human being. This idea that the workers who own the factory would bankrupt it as they order ever increasing quantities of laptops only to watch the workers steal them is baffling. But let's set that to one side and assume that that is a real thing that would actually happen. In the capitalist factory that is owned by some hedge fund on the other side of the country, what exactly happens to immediately cut it short? And why is that something that couldn't happen if, instead of being owned by investors in a fund, it was owned by the workers who were present inside of the factory. What you've said essentially comes down to "the more involved the owners are in the operations of the factory the greater the opportunity for theft". It's such a weird argument that you've made that I'm genuinely not sure what to make of it. It's like the perfectly rational perfectly informed consumer argument. At a certain point the rebuttal is just "have you literally never met a human being?" Every person who has ever worked at a private company has witnessed incompetence, misuse of assets, inefficiency etc. and so it's weird that you're choosing to simply disbelieve in them. Kwark the problem you have, is that you have not a clue what you are talking about. What I am talking about is what I have seen applied on national scale. Did you know that it could take up to ten years to build small block of flats (3 floors height) while using amount of materials with which you could build small city? I personally saw people draining fuel from transport trucks to put it in their cars, taking materials and tools from construction site to use for side jobs they were doing privately. And this werent isolated accidents, it was common thing, across every industry. Quite frankly your: " it's not at all clear whether you've ever actually been outside or met another human being" applies to you in case of socialism. Because you are the one who never went outside in socialist country, or met another human being in socialist country. All you have is some ideas and theories. You're just describing rampant corruption. You can have that regardless of the political approach. Essentially yes. However this cant happen in private company, as it will simply go under. It can only exists in state funded companies. For example I am pretty sure US have something similar going on with Pentagon (yeah I know not exactly company) however on much smaller scale. Holy shit, your still not getting it. You see it happen in a private company all the time in one post and claim it can't possible happen in the next. 1+1 is no longer 2 in your head? Dude what you are unable to grasp is the scale of it. It is not a manager nephew, owner daughter kind of stuff. It is Every, Single, Person. Surely you must be able to understand that private company will go bankrupt if everyone there will just keep taking company stuff, while doing barely any work?
What kind of place did you form your opinions in? I'm not trying to be rude, but how bad is the mafia in Poland that people are stealing from work sites and klepping the materials en route and drawing out construction for a decade? Also, what the fuck is corporate security? Are you unaware that if the workers owned the factory, there would be jobs devoted to ensuring no theft? Loss prevention is something department stores, contractors, and even tech companies have, have you ever worked for a business? Or are you just lying about anecdotes to provide evidence for this bizarre opinion/perception?
On September 25 2025 18:37 MJG wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y4de02x3woIs it a realistic possibility that the US Government is going to go into shut down, or will the Democrats fold? This seems like the kind of tactic that the Republicans have been perfectly happy to use to get their way when a Democrat has been in the White House, but that Democrats are unwilling to use when a Republican is in the White House.
Democrats will absolutely fold. They're the corporate establishment but just slightly more socially liberal. They will capitulate to whatever the corporations benefit most from. I suppose it's possible they shutter only certain agencies or departments (social programs, Healthcare, national parks, etc) that Trump doesn't want under the guise of saving money, but I am not sure we're quite at the "frack Yellowstone" level of stupidity yet.
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On September 25 2025 18:59 Gorsameth wrote:
The question is who would get the blame. Normally Republicans are being unreasonable and they largely get the blame for a shutdown they caused. I don't know how the general public is viewing the current situation.
But I don't think the government mass firing people is going to help Republicans win the optics war over a shutdown...
On the other hand, many Republican voters would view a Republican-caused shutdown that blocks/frustrates a Democrat President doing something that they disagree with as "owning the Libs".
In that sense, wouldn't attempting to force the Government into accepting concessions on healthcare access be a principled stand to take from a Democrat voter point-of-view, and thus be something they could support?
I personally think the Democrats will fold because they're too spineless to take the fight to a Republican President in the same way that Republicans take the fight to a Democrat President.
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On September 25 2025 19:18 MJG wrote:
In that sense, wouldn't attempting to force the Government into accepting concessions on healthcare access be a principled stand to take from a Democrat voter point-of-view, and thus be something they could support?
How does that benefit corporations or oligarchs? That would be actively interfering with one of their revenue streams.
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On September 25 2025 18:37 MJG wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y4de02x3woIs it a realistic possibility that the US Government is going to go into shut down, or will the Democrats fold? This seems like the kind of tactic that the Republicans have been perfectly happy to use to get their way when a Democrat has been in the White House, but that Democrats are unwilling to use when a Republican is in the White House.
Democrats caused the longest shutdown ever in Trump's first term.
You probably don't remember because it's the government, so nobody noticed they stopped doing nothing.
On September 25 2025 13:52 Phyanketto wrote:
So how we feeling on the ice shooter? The fact that "anti-ice" was written on the casings is pretty braindead. He attacked a facility and only killed detainees, but all the news and government talking heads are speaking like ice agents themselves were the ones injured and killed. Prima facie idiocy, even. Luigi really did a number on these people that every staged event now has bullets with writing on them, and they keep getting dumber and dumber.
Kash can't even stage a false flag right. I'm not the only one who thinks that's what this is right? Eventually they're going to find the shooter was trans or something, mark my words, because they can't stop themselves from double dipping every time.
ICE was obviously the target.
There is no contingent of people who are mad at ICE for detaining and deporting people instead of executing them, who would write "FUCK ICE" on bullets, snipe carefully at an ICE facility avoiding killing the hero ICE agents that the shooter is mad aren't doing what they're supposed to which is kill, and then commit suicide, rather than just shooting all the brown people he sees, like the guy in El Paso did. It doesn't make a lick of sense.
The government can write on a shell casing with a marker, sure, anyone could do that. But they can't find someone to do a mission like that and shoot themselves, they can't find someone they would trust not to expose the conspiracy, and they can't find someone who they could promise wouldn't get caught or shot and believe it, after every single other person has been caught or shot.
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Norway28691 Posts
So my brother works at this place called Kantega, it's an IT-company with a particular policy which makes it differ from most of its competitors: owning stock is mandatory to work there, the employers own 100% of the company, and everybody owns an equal share. It is a private company - but essentially what modern day socialism within a capitalist society looks like.
Kantega has on numerous occasions been highlighted as one of the best places to work in all of Norway, they attract top talent and have very low turnover. I've basically yet to hear anything negative from any people who work there. It sure as fuck isn't plagued by employees stealing stuff. I mean,the idea that 'if workers own part of their work place, they will be incentivized to steal from their work place' is a special type of logic that I can't really grasp my head around, but oh well.
Nobody is arguing for soviet-style command economy with rampant corruption to boot. Worker ownership of the means of production has no relationship with that, and the notion that Polish people stealing from a totalitarian regime is an argument against coops is at best laughable.
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On September 25 2025 19:37 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2025 18:37 MJG wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y4de02x3woIs it a realistic possibility that the US Government is going to go into shut down, or will the Democrats fold? This seems like the kind of tactic that the Republicans have been perfectly happy to use to get their way when a Democrat has been in the White House, but that Democrats are unwilling to use when a Republican is in the White House. Democrats caused the longest shutdown ever in Trump's first term. You probably don't remember because it's the government, so nobody noticed they stopped doing nothing.
Those of us who aren't as senile as the child rapist president they voted for will recall that the longest government shutdown in U.S. history began in 2018, when Republicans controlled both chambers of Congress and the White House, because then-unconvicted rapist Donald Trump refused to sign a budget that didn't include money for a Mexican border wall that Texas Republicans in the House didn't want and refused to vote for. The shutdown cost an estimated $11b, more than the cancer research for children funding that now-convicted rapist Trump impounded from the U.S. government in 2025. Only 34% of those polled did not blame Trump specifically for the shutdown.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018–2019_United_States_federal_government_shutdown
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On September 25 2025 19:15 Phyanketto wrote:
What kind of place did you form your opinions in? I'm not trying to be rude, but how bad is the mafia in Poland that people are stealing from work sites and klepping the materials en route and drawing out construction for a decade? Also, what the fuck is corporate security? Are you unaware that if the workers owned the factory, there would be jobs devoted to ensuring no theft? Loss prevention is something department stores, contractors, and even tech companies have, have you ever worked for a business? Or are you just lying about anecdotes to provide evidence for this bizarre opinion/perception?
I already said 70s-80s Poland. And it has nothing to do with mafia, it was more of a lifestyle which you had to adapt or were left behind. Security idea is so brilliant that they had it themselves. The way it worked was that they either looked other way and get a cut, or got fired because manager was involved all the same but on bigger scale.
It was all intertwined also. Construction worker, put wallpaper for shop lady then she called him ahead of delivery and he told her to put this, this and this aside. The one who didnt, comes to the shop and there are empty shelves. Manager of the construction site comes and say: You, you and you, take this, this and this, go to this address, ask for doctor x tell him I send you and put tiles in his bathroom, 2 weeks later his son gets category D and dont have to go to army.
And yes this happens in capitalism too, but it is the scale of it which is on whole different level.
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It's almost as if the Soviet Union wasn't a great role model to begin with. Huh, who knew in hindsight?
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On September 25 2025 19:57 LightSpectra wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2025 19:37 oBlade wrote:On September 25 2025 18:37 MJG wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y4de02x3woIs it a realistic possibility that the US Government is going to go into shut down, or will the Democrats fold? This seems like the kind of tactic that the Republicans have been perfectly happy to use to get their way when a Democrat has been in the White House, but that Democrats are unwilling to use when a Republican is in the White House. Democrats caused the longest shutdown ever in Trump's first term. You probably don't remember because it's the government, so nobody noticed they stopped doing nothing. Those of us who aren't as senile as the child rapist president they voted for will recall that the longest government shutdown in U.S. history began in 2018, when Republicans controlled both chambers of Congress and the White House, because then-unconvicted rapist Donald Trump refused to sign a budget that didn't include money for a Mexican border wall that Texas Republicans in the House didn't want and refused to vote for. The shutdown cost an estimated $11b, more than the cancer research for children funding that now-convicted rapist Trump impounded from the U.S. government in 2025. Only 34% of those polled did not blame Trump specifically for the shutdown. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018–2019_United_States_federal_government_shutdown
Have they gotten to the filibuster in your civics class yet?
The Senate needs 60 votes for cloture.
If you "control" the White House and both chambers of Congress, you would be able to pass your own budgets. You can't because it's not simple majority, unless you're advocating Republicans should abolish the filibuster to govern without obstructionist nonsense. Is that what you want? "Texas Republicans in the House?" Pure fiction. The House passed a CR. It's the Senate that wouldn't pass the bill. Why? Because there were more than 40 Democrats.
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On September 25 2025 20:00 Razyda wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2025 19:15 Phyanketto wrote:
What kind of place did you form your opinions in? I'm not trying to be rude, but how bad is the mafia in Poland that people are stealing from work sites and klepping the materials en route and drawing out construction for a decade? Also, what the fuck is corporate security? Are you unaware that if the workers owned the factory, there would be jobs devoted to ensuring no theft? Loss prevention is something department stores, contractors, and even tech companies have, have you ever worked for a business? Or are you just lying about anecdotes to provide evidence for this bizarre opinion/perception?
I already said 70s-80s Poland. And it has nothing to do with mafia, it was more of a lifestyle which you had to adapt or were left behind. Security idea is so brilliant that they had it themselves. The way it worked was that they either looked other way and get a cut, or got fired because manager was involved all the same but on bigger scale. It was all intertwined also. Construction worker, put wallpaper for shop lady then she called him ahead of delivery and he told her to put this, this and this aside. The one who didnt, comes to the shop and there are empty shelves. Manager of the construction site comes and say: You, you and you, take this, this and this, go to this address, ask for doctor x tell him I send you and put tiles in his bathroom, 2 weeks later his son gets category D and dont have to go to army. And yes this happens in capitalism too, but it is the scale of it which is on whole different level. Great, so what does corruption in Communist Poland under the USSR have to do with worker co-ops in 2025?
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The filibuster is a rule that says you need 60 votes that only needs 51 votes to be changed, its a no-op that politicians use to convince voters there's nothing they can do even though there is.
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On September 25 2025 20:24 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2025 19:57 LightSpectra wrote:On September 25 2025 19:37 oBlade wrote:On September 25 2025 18:37 MJG wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y4de02x3woIs it a realistic possibility that the US Government is going to go into shut down, or will the Democrats fold? This seems like the kind of tactic that the Republicans have been perfectly happy to use to get their way when a Democrat has been in the White House, but that Democrats are unwilling to use when a Republican is in the White House. Democrats caused the longest shutdown ever in Trump's first term. You probably don't remember because it's the government, so nobody noticed they stopped doing nothing. Those of us who aren't as senile as the child rapist president they voted for will recall that the longest government shutdown in U.S. history began in 2018, when Republicans controlled both chambers of Congress and the White House, because then-unconvicted rapist Donald Trump refused to sign a budget that didn't include money for a Mexican border wall that Texas Republicans in the House didn't want and refused to vote for. The shutdown cost an estimated $11b, more than the cancer research for children funding that now-convicted rapist Trump impounded from the U.S. government in 2025. Only 34% of those polled did not blame Trump specifically for the shutdown. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018–2019_United_States_federal_government_shutdown Have they gotten to the filibuster in your civics class yet? The Senate needs 60 votes for cloture. If you "control" the White House and both chambers of Congress, you would be able to pass your own budgets. You can't because it's not simple majority, unless you're advocating Republicans should abolish the filibuster to govern without obstructionist nonsense. Is that what you want? "Texas Republicans in the House?" Pure fiction. The House passed a CR. It's the Senate that wouldn't pass the bill. Why? Because there were more than 40 Democrats.
Weird how there's never been a government shutdown when Democrats controlled both chambers of Congress 🤷♂️ Maybe it's because they know how to govern.
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On September 25 2025 19:37 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2025 18:37 MJG wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y4de02x3woIs it a realistic possibility that the US Government is going to go into shut down, or will the Democrats fold? This seems like the kind of tactic that the Republicans have been perfectly happy to use to get their way when a Democrat has been in the White House, but that Democrats are unwilling to use when a Republican is in the White House. Democrats caused the longest shutdown ever in Trump's first term. You probably don't remember because it's the government, so nobody noticed they stopped doing nothing.
I remember the press on this side of the pond laying the blame at Trump's feet, because he threw a tantrum when he didn't get what he wanted from the House/Senate, which seems like the opposite of what I was describing...
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EPT
