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On September 23 2025 10:02 GreenHorizons wrote: This. This is the sort of protesting that need to be happening in the US right now
ROME (AP) — Thousands of protesters and strikers calling for solidarity with Palestinians in Gaza took to the streets in Italy on Monday, with some storming Milan’s central train station and clashing violently with police.
Italy’s grassroots unions, which represent hundreds of thousands of people ranging from schoolteachers to metalworkers, called for a 24-hour general strike in both public and private sectors, including public transportation, trains, schools and ports.
The strike caused disruptions across the country, with long delays for national trains and limited public transport in major cities, including Rome.
Mate I am Polish born in seventies, you sure you want to go down this route? because I remember my bus being stopped by armed soldiers, I remember shots being fired at protestors, because I effing heard them. See my issue with your view is not even that you are socialist. It is that you are dishonest about it. General strike my ass. You do know what is needed, but you are reluctant to spell it out You have exactly 0 chance of peaceful gaining of power and everyone knows it.
The only way you gain power is a slaughter. My biggest issue with you is that you are not admitting it.
Slaughtering people is how capitalism stays in power. The US has been at war basically its entire existence. One thing that bugs me about capitalists and their lackeys is that they pretend that the status quo isn't already insanely/unacceptably violent.
Dude what are you doing here? What you dont understand ?? Slaughtering people is the only effing way socialism gets a traction. Do you think I am going to willingly give up what I earned because it is right thing to do? F..k that I am going to use every available loophole to make sure it is going to my kids.
If you think people only deserve what they earn, why are you so eager to give what you earned to your kids that haven't? Socialism is just nepotism for everyone.
The driving force of progress in all human history and pre-history is fundamentally to take care of our descendants.
No, it's self preservation.
When you earn something, it's up to you who, if anyone, you give it to, because by the act of earning it, it became yours. If you sacrifice your lifestyle and your children's lifestyle so you can leave them in a better place for their future, that's your right.
But whether children or not, it's yours. Tucker Carlson is certainly equally in his rights to gift $10k to a stranger as to give it to his own children, for example. Neither is unfair because the stranger or the child asked or didn't ask for it. What's unfair would be for one to steal $10k from Tucker Carlson just because he also gave to someone else and he still has some left and I want some why can't I have some and boo hoo.
Capitalism is "I must study politics and war, that our sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy." Socialism is "I must study Marxism so we can try to figure out how to not all die of famine the very first year after we kill and steal from all the rich." Sure it'd be nice to think about a Star Trek future where everyone is in on the greater good, but it's not happening from the revolutionary left which is too hateful to unite anyone, too incompetent to allocate resources, and too nihilistic to move the human spirit.
That is not capitalism or socialism, but to entertain your quotes: USA is the richest country to ever exist and 14% of the country doesn't know where their next meal will come from and capitalists openly mock anyone who studies philosophy or similar instead of a STEM field, so none of this comment really tracks.
We don't need to give everyone something equal and hope to god they then do shit. Instead, we've devised an ingenious system where we give people money specifically for doing shit. This gets the shit done, and also gets them the money. This is why despite my first sentence being true, most transacted money in the world is not gifts to children. It's people exchanging goods and services in the market. To take care of themselves and their kin. If you take away the fruits, you will lose the sacrifice and the efforts that created the fruits to begin with. People will not bother being productive if they can't keep what they produce.
$2.5T is passed down through families annually which is conservatively about the same amount of money earned by the bottom half of the country so I think it's safe to say we're a country that rewards having the right parents more than working hard.
I am not arguing for a 100% estate tax, merely pointing out that hoarding wealth within families rewards the benefactors whether or not they work hard or "do shit" as you put it. This limits resources that could otherwise enable productivity by ensuring the bare minimums to develop a labor force (making food, shelter, education available to all) and increasing the amount of money available to reward/incentivize the low/middle classes to "do shit" and climb the ladder.
American capitalism is touted as a free market / meritocracy but in practicality it is nepotism and cronyism.
Why would socialist workers have any concept of a track and trace or have a semblance of asset bookkeeping. All they're concerned with is ARBEITEN. And looking out for themselves... in a system where the system looks after you... Genuinely loled at the ever increasing orders of laptops. The image is so ridiculous, Monty Python'esque really.
Sure, it sounds silly. But then you look around and consider the countless real world examples of publicly owned enterprises that were literally crushed beneath the laptops and suddenly nobody is laughing.
The simple reality that everyone who has ever worked in any of these businesses has experienced is that publicly owned enterprises are buried beneath laptops and shareholders don't allow inefficiency. One time I tried to use the office printer at a publicly traded company for personal documents and a shareholder came by my office and made me put the ink back. Then I got a job at co-op and took the entire combo scanner/fax/photocopy/printer machine home with me only to find it replaced by two more the following day.
must have been an Ai startup. Aio printers are not even worth it to note down as they are burning through their money faster than one could probably burn it. literally. what with stacks of billions of dollars being... rather impractically big IRL.
ChristianS:
Maybe you can eventually design some intricate policing apparatus to make sure everybody is too scared to slack, but it’s always going to be leaps and bounds less efficient than a competing company where people just do their jobs to the best of their ability without having to be policed. To achieve that you have to get into nebulous concepts like “motivation” and “morale” and “intrinsic reward.” Without them even a *capitalist* factory fails, so it’s not saying much that a socialist factory fails if all its employees just selfishly seek extrinsic rewards.
people already thought about these things... also we are in the attention/surveillance economy already. if you are in a position to work from home, from your company's laptop... go for a drink with some people from IT from time to time and ask them how bosses check up on you
It is peculiar that society would value self-centeredness, selfishness, and greed. Even try to make them pillars for societal progress. Those are, of course, aspects of humanity, but not its majority. They conflict directly with the goal of being better for society as a larger entity. If society deliberately rewards people for being selfish, then people who are selfish are more likely to become important. Being selfish does not make you any smarter or anything. It just makes it likely to ignore others. Thus, they are likely to choose the option that only benefits them, even in a situation where there is as beneficial option that would also benefit others. Benefitting others would be even negative to them if others had more influence in the future. Only the selfish person needs to be protected and have their rights respected. This is destructive to society as the need for others becomes something to minimise.
Individuality is also weird for society, as seeking to be different and unique often leads to attempts to accumulate wealth, power, and status. These are basically forms of the previous aspects. Framing things as competitions is a usual way to foster this in society. When things are viewed as competitions, there can only be one that is the best, the most different, the uniquest. There are millions of millionaires, but only a few thousand billionaires. Similarly, most people follow laws and rules, and when they get caught breaking them, they get punished. If you could break the laws and rules but be unpunished even when caught, you could be different from the masses. If you are already different enough, why not prove it by deliberately breaking the rules and laws? This can again be destructive for society at large, as others are valued only as a contrast to you.
I honestly believe that the last part is much more likely to be the reason why some celebrities and the wealthy have questionably young partners, order models in places like Dubai, and have connections to people like Epstein and Diddy, than that they actually have some form of paraphilia more frequently.
A majority of population growth is from farmers having babies so that they have cheap free labor to work the fields, and then to support you when you are old and can't support yourself anymore.
Making things better for them is the idealism to motivate them to continue to support you when they have no real reason otherwise to not just send you out into the cold, like the inuit do to their elderly.
Why would socialist workers have any concept of a track and trace or have a semblance of asset bookkeeping. All they're concerned with is ARBEITEN. And looking out for themselves... in a system where the system looks after you... Genuinely loled at the ever increasing orders of laptops. The image is so ridiculous, Monty Python'esque really.
Sure, it sounds silly. But then you look around and consider the countless real world examples of publicly owned enterprises that were literally crushed beneath the laptops and suddenly nobody is laughing.
The simple reality that everyone who has ever worked in any of these businesses has experienced is that publicly owned enterprises are buried beneath laptops and shareholders don't allow inefficiency. One time I tried to use the office printer at a publicly traded company for personal documents and a shareholder came by my office and made me put the ink back. Then I got a job at co-op and took the entire combo scanner/fax/photocopy/printer machine home with me only to find it replaced by two more the following day.
must have been an Ai startup. Aio printers are not even worth it to note down as they are burning through their money faster than one could probably burn it. literally. what with stacks of billions of dollars being... rather impractically big IRL.
Maybe you can eventually design some intricate policing apparatus to make sure everybody is too scared to slack, but it’s always going to be leaps and bounds less efficient than a competing company where people just do their jobs to the best of their ability without having to be policed. To achieve that you have to get into nebulous concepts like “motivation” and “morale” and “intrinsic reward.” Without them even a *capitalist* factory fails, so it’s not saying much that a socialist factory fails if all its employees just selfishly seek extrinsic rewards.
people already thought about these things... also we are in the attention/surveillance economy already. if you are in a position to work from home, from your company's laptop... go for a drink with some people from IT from time to time and ask them how bosses check up on you
Oh, I mean, I have some idea what they’re able to surveil and not surveil. The “problem” (from their perspective) is that even with all those tools, it’s still extremely easy to tell from an employee perspective that they frequently have no real way to tell whether you’re giving your all or not. On the one hand it frequently seems like you’d have to get pretty lucky on what they pay attention to for your hard work to ever really get noticed; on the other it seems pretty clear that you’d have to *really* fuck up to get fired. If you’re only working for the extrinsic reward, why would you ever bother to land in the upper range of that band when just above the cutoff would be just as lucrative?
What people are saying: "Capitalism has a few major flaws, and socialism has various benefits over capitalism. We should look for solutions that capitalism has failed to provide." What anti-socialists think people are saying: "How dare you criticize my perfect communist utopia? Socialism has no flaws! Stalin was right! Begone!"
So how we feeling on the ice shooter? The fact that "anti-ice" was written on the casings is pretty braindead. He attacked a facility and only killed detainees, but all the news and government talking heads are speaking like ice agents themselves were the ones injured and killed. Prima facie idiocy, even. Luigi really did a number on these people that every staged event now has bullets with writing on them, and they keep getting dumber and dumber.
Kash can't even stage a false flag right. I'm not the only one who thinks that's what this is right? Eventually they're going to find the shooter was trans or something, mark my words, because they can't stop themselves from double dipping every time.
On September 25 2025 13:52 Phyanketto wrote: So how we feeling on the ice shooter? The fact that "anti-ice" was written on the casings is pretty braindead. He attacked a facility and only killed detainees, but all the news and government talking heads are speaking like ice agents themselves were the ones injured and killed. Prima facie idiocy, even. Luigi really did a number on these people that every staged event now has bullets with writing on them, and they keep getting dumber and dumber.
Kash can't even stage a false flag right. I'm not the only one who thinks that's what this is right? Eventually they're going to find the shooter was trans or something, mark my words, because they can't stop themselves from double dipping every time.
At some point it becomes likely that some of these events are staged, yes. Historically speaking we'd be idiots to assume otherwise. But we can't know which ones are staged and which ones aren't.
On September 25 2025 13:52 Phyanketto wrote: So how we feeling on the ice shooter? The fact that "anti-ice" was written on the casings is pretty braindead. He attacked a facility and only killed detainees, but all the news and government talking heads are speaking like ice agents themselves were the ones injured and killed. Prima facie idiocy, even. Luigi really did a number on these people that every staged event now has bullets with writing on them, and they keep getting dumber and dumber.
Kash can't even stage a false flag right. I'm not the only one who thinks that's what this is right? Eventually they're going to find the shooter was trans or something, mark my words, because they can't stop themselves from double dipping every time.
At some point it becomes likely that some of these events are staged, yes. Historically speaking we'd be idiots to assume otherwise. But we can't know which ones are staged and which ones aren't.
That law enforcement is planting/falsifying evidence is probably the reasonable presumption at this point.
On September 25 2025 13:52 Phyanketto wrote: So how we feeling on the ice shooter? The fact that "anti-ice" was written on the casings is pretty braindead. He attacked a facility and only killed detainees, but all the news and government talking heads are speaking like ice agents themselves were the ones injured and killed. Prima facie idiocy, even. Luigi really did a number on these people that every staged event now has bullets with writing on them, and they keep getting dumber and dumber.
Kash can't even stage a false flag right. I'm not the only one who thinks that's what this is right? Eventually they're going to find the shooter was trans or something, mark my words, because they can't stop themselves from double dipping every time.
I don't know a single person that believes the FBI rn
New information coming out about Charlie Kirk's past. Allegedly here's a guy who got bullied relentlessly by Kirk. A rejection by West Point ticked Kirk off so much that he turned into an extreme racist. Allegedly.
If true, that would mean Kirk was in the process of doing the full Hitler arc.
Anybody still want to argue we should express any sympathy or empathy for Charlie Kirk? Anybody?
On September 25 2025 15:44 Magic Powers wrote: New information coming out about Charlie Kirk's past. Allegedly here's a guy who got bullied relentlessly by Kirk. A rejection by West Point ticked Kirk off so much that he turned into an extreme racist. Allegedly.
If true, that would mean Kirk was in the process of doing the full Hitler arc.
Anybody still want to argue we should express any sympathy or empathy for Charlie Kirk? Anybody?
nothingburger. we know what he said after he got big, that's basically all that matters. also, you can change your opinions over time.I doubt he was full hitler. He was definitely a crypto-white supremacist tho, just like the vast vast majority of the populist right.
On September 25 2025 15:44 Magic Powers wrote: New information coming out about Charlie Kirk's past. Allegedly here's a guy who got bullied relentlessly by Kirk. A rejection by West Point ticked Kirk off so much that he turned into an extreme racist. Allegedly.
If true, that would mean Kirk was in the process of doing the full Hitler arc.
Anybody still want to argue we should express any sympathy or empathy for Charlie Kirk? Anybody?
nothingburger. we know what he said after he got big, that's basically all that matters. also, you can change your opinions over time.I doubt he was full hitler. He was definitely a crypto-white supremacist tho, just like the vast vast majority of the populist right.
It's much harder to celebrate Kirk as a hero when people can say "he was a high school bully." Only despicable people support a bully. I think information such as this creates even more anti-Republican unity, and that unity is desperately needed right now.
I mean, I agree, MP, but they will dismiss this as liberal slander. They've already made their minds up about the guy and it's that 'he's like jesus on earth, he's like a living AI who you can ask questions to and get answers, but from god'
On September 25 2025 16:41 Phyanketto wrote: I mean, I agree, MP, but they will dismiss this as liberal slander. They've already made their minds up about the guy and it's that 'he's like jesus on earth, he's like a living AI who you can ask questions to and get answers, but from god'
Not a living AI. I'd say right now it's a lot easier to get answers from ChatGPT than from Charlie Kirk...
On September 25 2025 16:41 Phyanketto wrote: I mean, I agree, MP, but they will dismiss this as liberal slander. They've already made their minds up about the guy and it's that 'he's like jesus on earth, he's like a living AI who you can ask questions to and get answers, but from god'
It's not about convincing Republicans, it's about convincing other people.
On September 25 2025 01:57 Razyda wrote: In socialism factory focus would be on production - so it would just keep requesting new laptops
Citation needed.
The problem with your premise is that it's not at all clear whether you've ever actually been outside or met another human being. This idea that the workers who own the factory would bankrupt it as they order ever increasing quantities of laptops only to watch the workers steal them is baffling. But let's set that to one side and assume that that is a real thing that would actually happen. In the capitalist factory that is owned by some hedge fund on the other side of the country, what exactly happens to immediately cut it short? And why is that something that couldn't happen if, instead of being owned by investors in a fund, it was owned by the workers who were present inside of the factory. What you've said essentially comes down to "the more involved the owners are in the operations of the factory the greater the opportunity for theft".
It's such a weird argument that you've made that I'm genuinely not sure what to make of it. It's like the perfectly rational perfectly informed consumer argument. At a certain point the rebuttal is just "have you literally never met a human being?" Every person who has ever worked at a private company has witnessed incompetence, misuse of assets, inefficiency etc. and so it's weird that you're choosing to simply disbelieve in them.
Kwark the problem you have, is that you have not a clue what you are talking about. What I am talking about is what I have seen applied on national scale. Did you know that it could take up to ten years to build small block of flats (3 floors height) while using amount of materials with which you could build small city? I personally saw people draining fuel from transport trucks to put it in their cars, taking materials and tools from construction site to use for side jobs they were doing privately. And this werent isolated accidents, it was common thing, across every industry.
Quite frankly your: " it's not at all clear whether you've ever actually been outside or met another human being" applies to you in case of socialism. Because you are the one who never went outside in socialist country, or met another human being in socialist country. All you have is some ideas and theories.
On September 25 2025 01:57 Razyda wrote: technically it is not even stealing as he is one of the factory owners
Citation needed.
On September 25 2025 01:57 Razyda wrote: In capitalism factory would be focused on profit, hence this practice would be cut short.
Citation needed.
On September 25 2025 01:57 Razyda wrote: In socialism factory focus would be on production - so it would just keep requesting new laptops
Citation needed.
The problem with your premise is that it's not at all clear whether you've ever actually been outside or met another human being. This idea that the workers who own the factory would bankrupt it as they order ever increasing quantities of laptops only to watch the workers steal them is baffling. But let's set that to one side and assume that that is a real thing that would actually happen. In the capitalist factory that is owned by some hedge fund on the other side of the country, what exactly happens to immediately cut it short? And why is that something that couldn't happen if, instead of being owned by investors in a fund, it was owned by the workers who were present inside of the factory. What you've said essentially comes down to "the more involved the owners are in the operations of the factory the greater the opportunity for theft".
It's such a weird argument that you've made that I'm genuinely not sure what to make of it. It's like the perfectly rational perfectly informed consumer argument. At a certain point the rebuttal is just "have you literally never met a human being?" Every person who has ever worked at a private company has witnessed incompetence, misuse of assets, inefficiency etc. and so it's weird that you're choosing to simply disbelieve in them.
Kwark the problem you have, is that you have not a clue what you are talking about. What I am talking about is what I have seen applied on national scale. Did you know that it could take up to ten years to build small block of flats (3 floors height) while using amount of materials with which you could build small city? I personally saw people draining fuel from transport trucks to put it in their cars, taking materials and tools from construction site to use for side jobs they were doing privately. And this werent isolated accidents, it was common thing, across every industry.
Quite frankly your: " it's not at all clear whether you've ever actually been outside or met another human being" applies to you in case of socialism. Because you are the one who never went outside in socialist country, or met another human being in socialist country. All you have is some ideas and theories.
You're just describing rampant corruption. You can have that regardless of the political approach.
EPT
