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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread |
On September 19 2025 04:52 Magic Powers wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2025 02:00 castleeMg wrote:On September 19 2025 01:52 Vivax wrote:On September 19 2025 01:48 castleeMg wrote:On September 19 2025 01:32 Vivax wrote:On September 19 2025 01:29 castleeMg wrote:On September 19 2025 01:20 Vivax wrote:On September 19 2025 00:43 castleeMg wrote:On September 19 2025 00:15 Sadist wrote:On September 18 2025 23:45 WombaT wrote:
[quote]
Biff said ‘everyone condemned the crime’
This is not remotely true. I’m not making a value judgement either way, but that statement is errant nonsense.
If they had said ‘elected Democrats have roundly condemned Kirk’s death’, that would seem to me pretty accurate from what I have seen. Democrats cannot be responsible for random posts on social media. The republicans dont want to play that game. That’s not the argument, of course they can’t be responsible for what random people post. The argument was that biff said “everyone condemned Kirk’s death” which is absolutely not true. I saw compiled clips of sickos praising his death and commending the shooter. There are even people in this thread that never outright praised the shooter but instead borderline rationalized his actions by saying things like “he had it coming” and “live by the sword, die by the sword” Nobody knows who made said clips. Were you looking at an opinion or at ragebait ? Hard to tell these days when social media seems like a centrally controlled blob. So you’re really on the side that some people didn’t make social media posts praising Charlie Kirk’s death who genuinely meant it? Those must of just been bad actors on the right? I’m sure when random people on the right post horrible things you’ll be quick to point the finger at them but when it’s the left it’s always some conspiracy that the right is actually behind it? Thats what you’re alluding to correct? No I‘m saying I don‘t know which one of the two it is. I don‘t know who made the clips and if they benefit from it. I don‘t even know if Americans made them. What if they were Russian ? Or German neonazis ? You can type “Celebrating kirks death” on Twitter and see the numerous posts and videos of real people celebrating his death. Likely right wing accounts reposted the videos and posts but does that make a difference if the posts are genuine and real? I don‘t use twitter or similar platforms. Can‘t make me. When I used to browse it, I got my head filled with nonsense. It‘s hardly going to be better now. The old “I refuse to read or watch it so I can’t confirm it to be true” response What an argument. Lol I've deleted my Twitter account years ago and I feel great about it. Highly recommended. It's a terrible place and I hear it's only gotten worse.
It's great if you're trying to speedrun seeing every racial slur in the dictionary.
Bluesky is in a good spot right now. There's still some engagement trolling, but if you just want to follow some artists and critics it's perfect.
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On September 19 2025 06:00 Fleetfeet wrote:
Most of your positions have seemed like "He was definitely left wing because he had a secret relationship with a trans person" and "Twitter was celebrating I saw it, therefore the left is gross", so I don't think that much of value is lost in your departure. Have fun, and trust that even if the loudest and most frequent voices here are left, noone's reading GH or spectra or quark or whoever at their word, which is why there isn't a clear unified voice.
I think people are sort of blind to the fact that like the golf course guy, there used to be a bunch of principled republicans who were more respectful of the political process and enamored with principle. You know how there a bunch of libertarians who do indeed mean what they say and care more about freedoms than just the freedom to be "free speech absolutists" aka whatever edgelord shit they want to push? There are a lot of people who used to be republicans (or still are, on a local level) who were like that. Devoted more to the concepts of freedom and expression and free enterprise than populist fascism. That's why the claim game ("shooter was leftist, shooter was rightwing, etc. etc.") is never going to mean anything. I used to consider myself republican ca. 2016, and then I compromised.
I wish there was an actual centrist party with a bent for free expression and a respect for personal and civil liberty, but no, the best we have are spineless corporats who represent(ed) big tech and private equity (blackrock esg and other private equity risk assessments were a huge driver in pro-diversity branding, the sort of thing the modern right would brand as 'woke'), but now that the corpos have fully gotten in bed with trump the democrats are basically standing on a hollow shell that is limited to "we're not fascists" and "social issues". We never had a proper leftist party, and the fact that our concept of the left is "more government" and "more socialism" is really part of the problem. The reason non-peasants are freaking out about the ramp up of fascism is because there's no alternative. We're trapped in a system that favors the rich and the rich control the public square and what echoes loudest, and there is basically nothing that can oppose them without being Netscaped.
On September 19 2025 06:15 LightSpectra wrote:
Bluesky is in a good spot right now. There's still some engagement trolling, but if you just want to follow some artists and critics it's perfect.
the problem is that any platform that is built specifically to escape or react to something is going to become an echo chamber with very limited organic pull. I don't see media people getting blueskies, I don't see artists or musicians getting them either. It's the truth social of the tiny, powerless opposition left.
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On September 19 2025 06:23 Phyanketto wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2025 06:00 Fleetfeet wrote:
Most of your positions have seemed like "He was definitely left wing because he had a secret relationship with a trans person" and "Twitter was celebrating I saw it, therefore the left is gross", so I don't think that much of value is lost in your departure. Have fun, and trust that even if the loudest and most frequent voices here are left, noone's reading GH or spectra or quark or whoever at their word, which is why there isn't a clear unified voice. I think people are sort of blind to the fact that like the golf course guy, there used to be a bunch of principled republicans who were more respectful of the political process and enamored with principle. You know how there a bunch of libertarians who do indeed mean what they say and care more about freedoms than just the freedom to be "free speech absolutists" aka whatever edgelord shit they want to push? There are a lot of people who used to be republicans (or still are, on a local level) who were like that. Devoted more to the concepts of freedom and expression and free enterprise than populist fascism. That's why the claim game ("shooter was leftist, shooter was rightwing, etc. etc.") is never going to mean anything. I used to consider myself republican, and then I compromised. I wish there was an actual centrist party with a bent for free expression and a respect for personal and civil liberty, but no, the best we have are spineless corporats who represent(ed) big tech and private equity (blackrock esg and other private equity risk assessments were a huge driver in pro-diversity branding, the sort of thing the modern right would brand as 'woke'), but now that the corpos have fully gotten in bed with trump the democrats are basically standing on a hollow shell that is limited to "we're not fascists" and "social issues". We never had a proper leftist party, and the fact that our concept of the left is "more government" and "more socialism" is really part of the problem. The reason non-peasants are freaking out about the ramp up of fascism is because there's no alternative. We're trapped in a system that favors the rich and the rich control the public square and what echoes loudest, and there is basically nothing that can oppose them without being Netscaped. Show nested quote +On September 19 2025 06:15 LightSpectra wrote:
Bluesky is in a good spot right now. There's still some engagement trolling, but if you just want to follow some artists and critics it's perfect. the problem is that any platform that is built specifically to escape or react to something is going to become an echo chamber with very limited organic pull. I don't see media people getting blueskies, I don't see artists or musicians getting them either. It's the truth social of the tiny, powerless opposition left.
The best thing IMO for the US if you could do one thing is have proportional representation, or even ranked ballots. No third party can survive in this system.
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On September 19 2025 06:23 Phyanketto wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2025 06:15 LightSpectra wrote:
Bluesky is in a good spot right now. There's still some engagement trolling, but if you just want to follow some artists and critics it's perfect. the problem is that any platform that is built specifically to escape or react to something is going to become an echo chamber with very limited organic pull. I don't see media people getting blueskies, I don't see artists or musicians getting them either. It's the truth social of the tiny, powerless opposition left.
That's fine with me. I'm dreading the day it gets so popular that the rageslop twitterers migrate.
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Realistically, the people who run the country are the people who have the most seats on the board of directors of all the public-facing companies. So, whoever is in charge of the companies that manage 401k assets and such. Presidents larp control, and they do have some real authority to do some stuff, but compared to someone like Larry Fink, even the US presidency is small potatoes.
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Northern Ireland26356 Posts
On September 19 2025 06:23 Phyanketto wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2025 06:00 Fleetfeet wrote:
Most of your positions have seemed like "He was definitely left wing because he had a secret relationship with a trans person" and "Twitter was celebrating I saw it, therefore the left is gross", so I don't think that much of value is lost in your departure. Have fun, and trust that even if the loudest and most frequent voices here are left, noone's reading GH or spectra or quark or whoever at their word, which is why there isn't a clear unified voice. I think people are sort of blind to the fact that like the golf course guy, there used to be a bunch of principled republicans who were more respectful of the political process and enamored with principle. You know how there a bunch of libertarians who do indeed mean what they say and care more about freedoms than just the freedom to be "free speech absolutists" aka whatever edgelord shit they want to push? There are a lot of people who used to be republicans (or still are, on a local level) who were like that. Devoted more to the concepts of freedom and expression and free enterprise than populist fascism. That's why the claim game ("shooter was leftist, shooter was rightwing, etc. etc.") is never going to mean anything. I used to consider myself republican ca. 2016, and then I compromised. I wish there was an actual centrist party with a bent for free expression and a respect for personal and civil liberty, but no, the best we have are spineless corporats who represent(ed) big tech and private equity (blackrock esg and other private equity risk assessments were a huge driver in pro-diversity branding, the sort of thing the modern right would brand as 'woke'), but now that the corpos have fully gotten in bed with trump the democrats are basically standing on a hollow shell that is limited to "we're not fascists" and "social issues". We never had a proper leftist party, and the fact that our concept of the left is "more government" and "more socialism" is really part of the problem. The reason non-peasants are freaking out about the ramp up of fascism is because there's no alternative. We're trapped in a system that favors the rich and the rich control the public square and what echoes loudest, and there is basically nothing that can oppose them without being Netscaped. Show nested quote +On September 19 2025 06:15 LightSpectra wrote:
Bluesky is in a good spot right now. There's still some engagement trolling, but if you just want to follow some artists and critics it's perfect. the problem is that any platform that is built specifically to escape or react to something is going to become an echo chamber with very limited organic pull. I don't see media people getting blueskies, I don't see artists or musicians getting them either. It's the truth social of the tiny, powerless opposition left.
What do you think happened there? I’m referring more to the first half of your post.
Did those people just get supplanted and displaced, or did they themselves change to fit the new pogrom? I mean obviously it’s not 100% one or the other.
Some may say it’s a lack of personal growth, my political views haven’t really changed that much since I was a teenager.
But in that ballpark of 20 years or so it definitely feels like a lot of interactions have shifted from broad common ground with significant disagreement on particular policies or perspectives, to well, the former becoming increasingly difficult. The common ground need not be profound, it may merely be ‘x happened, what do we think about it?’
And I’m not merely talking online interactions with strangers, but in-person interpersonal ones.
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On September 19 2025 08:11 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2025 06:23 Phyanketto wrote:On September 19 2025 06:00 Fleetfeet wrote:
Most of your positions have seemed like "He was definitely left wing because he had a secret relationship with a trans person" and "Twitter was celebrating I saw it, therefore the left is gross", so I don't think that much of value is lost in your departure. Have fun, and trust that even if the loudest and most frequent voices here are left, noone's reading GH or spectra or quark or whoever at their word, which is why there isn't a clear unified voice. I think people are sort of blind to the fact that like the golf course guy, there used to be a bunch of principled republicans who were more respectful of the political process and enamored with principle. You know how there a bunch of libertarians who do indeed mean what they say and care more about freedoms than just the freedom to be "free speech absolutists" aka whatever edgelord shit they want to push? There are a lot of people who used to be republicans (or still are, on a local level) who were like that. Devoted more to the concepts of freedom and expression and free enterprise than populist fascism. That's why the claim game ("shooter was leftist, shooter was rightwing, etc. etc.") is never going to mean anything. I used to consider myself republican ca. 2016, and then I compromised. I wish there was an actual centrist party with a bent for free expression and a respect for personal and civil liberty, but no, the best we have are spineless corporats who represent(ed) big tech and private equity (blackrock esg and other private equity risk assessments were a huge driver in pro-diversity branding, the sort of thing the modern right would brand as 'woke'), but now that the corpos have fully gotten in bed with trump the democrats are basically standing on a hollow shell that is limited to "we're not fascists" and "social issues". We never had a proper leftist party, and the fact that our concept of the left is "more government" and "more socialism" is really part of the problem. The reason non-peasants are freaking out about the ramp up of fascism is because there's no alternative. We're trapped in a system that favors the rich and the rich control the public square and what echoes loudest, and there is basically nothing that can oppose them without being Netscaped. On September 19 2025 06:15 LightSpectra wrote:
Bluesky is in a good spot right now. There's still some engagement trolling, but if you just want to follow some artists and critics it's perfect. the problem is that any platform that is built specifically to escape or react to something is going to become an echo chamber with very limited organic pull. I don't see media people getting blueskies, I don't see artists or musicians getting them either. It's the truth social of the tiny, powerless opposition left. What do you think happened there? I’m referring more to the first half of your post. Did those people just get supplanted and displaced, or did they themselves change to fit the new pogrom? I mean obviously it’s not 100% one or the other. Some may say it’s a lack of personal growth, my political views haven’t really changed that much since I was a teenager. But in that ballpark of 20 years or so it definitely feels like a lot of interactions have shifted from broad common ground with significant disagreement on particular policies or perspectives, to well, the former becoming increasingly difficult. The common ground need not be profound, it may merely be ‘x happened, what do we think about it?’ And I’m not merely talking online interactions with strangers, but in-person interpersonal ones.
It's more that whatever principles you base your political "position" on are constant, but the mainstream has moved from what they used to mean. The "principled" libertarians always had to contend with crypto-fascists calling themselves libertarians since the 80's, but the crypto-fascists and dopamine-button-pushing began to outnumber them over time. Same deal with certain arms of the republican party; the principled people became washed over by "I'm pissed and THIS demagogue knows exactly how to fix it" tea party populists. The existing politicians are probably more principled in private, but toe the party line because they care about holding onto power.
In terms of Robinson, obviously he had a political awakening, which happens to tons of people around that age.
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United States43675 Posts
On September 19 2025 07:35 ThunderJunk wrote:
Realistically, the people who run the country are the people who have the most seats on the board of directors of all the public-facing companies. So, whoever is in charge of the companies that manage 401k assets and such. Presidents larp control, and they do have some real authority to do some stuff, but compared to someone like Larry Fink, even the US presidency is small potatoes.
No
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The Jimmy Kimmel situation just got way more insane:
These are the demands ABC-affiliate Sinclair is making to air Jimmy Kimmel again
The company said in a press release that ABC's decision to suspend "Jimmy Kimmel Live!" was "not enough" and included some demands if it were to ever air the show again:
A "direct apology" from Kimmel to Kirk's family.
A "meaningful" donation to Kirk's family and his organization, Turning Point USA.
Appropriate steps taken to "uphold the standards expected of a national broadcast platform."
"Sinclair will not lift the suspension of 'Jimmy Kimmel Live!' on our stations until formal discussions are held with ABC regarding the network's commitment to professionalism and accountability," the company said.
The broadcaster said it would air a special "in remembrance" of Kirk during Kimmel's usual timeslot on Friday. https://www.businessinsider.com/sinclair-broadcasting-jimmy-kimmel-demands-2025-9
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Northern Ireland26356 Posts
On September 19 2025 07:35 ThunderJunk wrote:
Realistically, the people who run the country are the people who have the most seats on the board of directors of all the public-facing companies. So, whoever is in charge of the companies that manage 401k assets and such. Presidents larp control, and they do have some real authority to do some stuff, but compared to someone like Larry Fink, even the US presidency is small potatoes.
Which is why all the big tech CEO types showed up at Trump’s inauguration right?
Such individuals may have comparable, or indeed greater actual power than a President on the day-to-day, provided they toe the line. But that they have to toe the line does somewhat demarcate the lines of authority and power.
The folks who kinda do their thing with little public profile also do have enormous real power, but they’ve a fraction of the cultural pull.
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Northern Ireland26356 Posts
On September 19 2025 08:35 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:The Jimmy Kimmel situation just got way more insane: Show nested quote +These are the demands ABC-affiliate Sinclair is making to air Jimmy Kimmel again
The company said in a press release that ABC's decision to suspend "Jimmy Kimmel Live!" was "not enough" and included some demands if it were to ever air the show again:
A "direct apology" from Kimmel to Kirk's family.
A "meaningful" donation to Kirk's family and his organization, Turning Point USA.
Appropriate steps taken to "uphold the standards expected of a national broadcast platform."
"Sinclair will not lift the suspension of 'Jimmy Kimmel Live!' on our stations until formal discussions are held with ABC regarding the network's commitment to professionalism and accountability," the company said.
The broadcaster said it would air a special "in remembrance" of Kirk during Kimmel's usual timeslot on Friday. https://www.businessinsider.com/sinclair-broadcasting-jimmy-kimmel-demands-2025-9
*Fascist alarm bells ring*
His comments weren’t even remotely outrageous.
That the chair of the FCC is also interjecting in the manner they are, hm.
A prominent Fox host can openly advocate for the involuntary euthanasia of folks with mental health issues, or the homeless, but Kimmel merely said he felt people were weaponising Kirk’s death.
Who’s still on the air?
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On September 19 2025 08:27 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2025 07:35 ThunderJunk wrote:
Realistically, the people who run the country are the people who have the most seats on the board of directors of all the public-facing companies. So, whoever is in charge of the companies that manage 401k assets and such. Presidents larp control, and they do have some real authority to do some stuff, but compared to someone like Larry Fink, even the US presidency is small potatoes. No
Ever worked for a publicly traded company? They all merge into the same corporate cubicle culture because the CEOs are all beholden to the same people.
I just read about about the CEO of nvdia. Never sold his company stock. Still had to bend the knee to the vanguard reps who had majority shares. Richest man on the planet built the company from the ground up, and still had to bend the knee about the direction of his company.
Take the same guy, put him in a room with a president. He's shaking hands and making deals, feeling all good. No bending.
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Also, do you really think the executive branch of the government is stronger than the legislative? Pelosi making all that money every year trading stocks perfectly with insider information. If you think no back-alley information trading for favors on regulation is taking place, idk how you think you're smart about politics.
Meanwhile, we get democratic and republican national conventions every year - candidates are vetted and selected by SOME PEOPLE before they ever get put in front of us to decide between. Trump's appeal was that he wasn't selected by those people. That's really the only reason a lot of people felt so strongly about getting him in office. That's basically what it means to be a populist candidate. But of course he's still part of the same class of selectors, so it's all a lot more of the same, but with less direct control from the selectors.
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United States43675 Posts
On September 19 2025 08:58 ThunderJunk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2025 08:27 KwarK wrote:On September 19 2025 07:35 ThunderJunk wrote:
Realistically, the people who run the country are the people who have the most seats on the board of directors of all the public-facing companies. So, whoever is in charge of the companies that manage 401k assets and such. Presidents larp control, and they do have some real authority to do some stuff, but compared to someone like Larry Fink, even the US presidency is small potatoes. No Ever worked for a publicly traded company? They all merge into the same corporate cubicle culture because the CEOs are all beholden to the same people. I just read about about the CEO of nvdia. Never sold his company stock. Still had to bend the knee to the vanguard reps who had majority shares. Richest man on the planet built the company from the ground up, and still had to bend the knee about the direction of his company. Take the same guy, put him in a room with a president. He's shaking hands and making deals, feeling all good. No bending.
Yeah, no.
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On September 19 2025 09:13 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2025 08:58 ThunderJunk wrote:On September 19 2025 08:27 KwarK wrote:On September 19 2025 07:35 ThunderJunk wrote:
Realistically, the people who run the country are the people who have the most seats on the board of directors of all the public-facing companies. So, whoever is in charge of the companies that manage 401k assets and such. Presidents larp control, and they do have some real authority to do some stuff, but compared to someone like Larry Fink, even the US presidency is small potatoes. No Ever worked for a publicly traded company? They all merge into the same corporate cubicle culture because the CEOs are all beholden to the same people. I just read about about the CEO of nvdia. Never sold his company stock. Still had to bend the knee to the vanguard reps who had majority shares. Richest man on the planet built the company from the ground up, and still had to bend the knee about the direction of his company. Take the same guy, put him in a room with a president. He's shaking hands and making deals, feeling all good. No bending. Yeah, no.
The real powers of the world stay hidden, and make things happen from the shadows. No one in politics is going to post up against someone like Fink. If you show me someone in politics posting up against Fink, I'll change my view on this. But you won't be able to.
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On September 19 2025 09:20 ThunderJunk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2025 09:13 KwarK wrote:On September 19 2025 08:58 ThunderJunk wrote:On September 19 2025 08:27 KwarK wrote:On September 19 2025 07:35 ThunderJunk wrote:
Realistically, the people who run the country are the people who have the most seats on the board of directors of all the public-facing companies. So, whoever is in charge of the companies that manage 401k assets and such. Presidents larp control, and they do have some real authority to do some stuff, but compared to someone like Larry Fink, even the US presidency is small potatoes. No Ever worked for a publicly traded company? They all merge into the same corporate cubicle culture because the CEOs are all beholden to the same people. I just read about about the CEO of nvdia. Never sold his company stock. Still had to bend the knee to the vanguard reps who had majority shares. Richest man on the planet built the company from the ground up, and still had to bend the knee about the direction of his company. Take the same guy, put him in a room with a president. He's shaking hands and making deals, feeling all good. No bending. Yeah, no. The real powers of the world stay hidden, and make things happen from the shadows. No one in politics is going to post up against someone like Fink. If you show me someone in politics posting up against Fink, I'll change my view on this. But you won't be able to.
You can buy shares in blackrock, it‘s not some shadowy company that rules secretly. If you own it, Fink is responsible for your share.
(Lobbying exists though)
As for the suspension of certain reactions on live tv or lack thereof, it‘s within the limits of what to expect from this administration.
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Are we really discussing a rehash of a shadowy banker cabal that secretly runs the world? That's such a Nazi thing to be talking about.
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On no it is for sure real, first he said it with confidence and secondly you can not absolutely prove that it is not true.
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On September 19 2025 09:31 Acrofales wrote:
Are we really discussing a rehash of a shadowy banker cabal that secretly runs the world? That's such a Nazi thing to be talking about.
Could also just be alt-right.
But I don‘t want to jump to conclusions, it could just be ThunderJunk.
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Northern Ireland26356 Posts
On September 19 2025 09:10 ThunderJunk wrote:
Also, do you really think the executive branch of the government is stronger than the legislative? Pelosi making all that money every year trading stocks perfectly with insider information. If you think no back-alley information trading for favors on regulation is taking place, idk how you think you're smart about politics.
Meanwhile, we get democratic and republican national conventions every year - candidates are vetted and selected by SOME PEOPLE before they ever get put in front of us to decide between. Trump's appeal was that he wasn't selected by those people. That's really the only reason a lot of people felt so strongly about getting him in office. That's basically what it means to be a populist candidate. But of course he's still part of the same class of selectors, so it's all a lot more of the same, but with less direct control from the selectors.
If there’s a lesson from the recent epoch, and there’s many, one is that the corporate world has a lot of influence but doesn’t wholly rule the roost.
Shitloads of them actively worked against Trump, but he won that battle. And now they gotta play ball.
Most of the corporate sector in the UK threw their lot in with not leaving the EU, but they still lost there.
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EPT
