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On July 06 2026 10:11 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2026 09:48 Fleetfeet wrote:
Yup.
Sidebar - GH, you mentioned being genderqueer - what are your preferred pronouns these days?
Also, I have to consult the Trans Council (joking, just some friends who are some combination of either women and/or trans) for a sanity check, and then I'll be good to dive into some liquipedia editing. It really is and the ensuing discussion there wasn't very uplifting. They're just "pronouns" not "preferred pronouns" nowadays (you can't read my tone but it's pleasant, not demeaning). I like people using GreenHorizons/GH. "they" would be a welcome alternative as well. Gotta say I don't feel particularly safe making a point of this but it felt like a bit of an obligation and I really appreciate you doing something to makes me feel at least a little bit safer.
Which point don't you feel safe making, and why?
That you like people using GreenHorizons/GH and that they/them would be a welcome alternative (because you don't think we'll do that, or for some other reason)?
Or that nowadays a person's pronouns are described as "a person's pronouns" and not "a person's preferred pronouns" (because some people were trivializing semantics earlier with the woman vs. female conversation, so they might also be dismissive of whether or not using "preferred" is a big deal, or for some other reason)?
Or a different point?
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On July 06 2026 10:20 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2026 10:11 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 06 2026 09:48 Fleetfeet wrote:
Yup.
Sidebar - GH, you mentioned being genderqueer - what are your preferred pronouns these days?
Also, I have to consult the Trans Council (joking, just some friends who are some combination of either women and/or trans) for a sanity check, and then I'll be good to dive into some liquipedia editing. It really is and the ensuing discussion there wasn't very uplifting. They're just "pronouns" not "preferred pronouns" nowadays (you can't read my tone but it's pleasant, not demeaning). I like people using GreenHorizons/GH. "they" would be a welcome alternative as well. Gotta say I don't feel particularly safe making a point of this but it felt like a bit of an obligation and I really appreciate you doing something to makes me feel at least a little bit safer. Which point don't you feel safe making, and why? That you like people using GreenHorizons/GH and that they/them would be a welcome alternative (because you don't think we'll do that, or for some other reason)? Or that nowadays a person's pronouns are described as "a person's pronouns" and not "a person's preferred pronouns" (because some people were trivializing semantics earlier with the woman vs. female conversation, so they might also be dismissive of whether or not using "preferred" is a big deal, or for some other reason)? Or a different point?
Likely making a point of genderqueerness and/or coming out and/or declaring pronouns.
Makes total sense given the last few pages that it wouldn't feel safe. I still half-expect someone to declare that they're lying about being genderqueer for street cred or something.
@GH Thanks for the correction, and sorry for not offering 'if you don't mind answering' or some other out. Thought about DMing tbh but that felt too personal/invasive.
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On July 06 2026 10:20 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2026 10:11 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 06 2026 09:48 Fleetfeet wrote:
Yup.
Sidebar - GH, you mentioned being genderqueer - what are your preferred pronouns these days?
Also, I have to consult the Trans Council (joking, just some friends who are some combination of either women and/or trans) for a sanity check, and then I'll be good to dive into some liquipedia editing. It really is and the ensuing discussion there wasn't very uplifting. They're just "pronouns" not "preferred pronouns" nowadays (you can't read my tone but it's pleasant, not demeaning). I like people using GreenHorizons/GH. "they" would be a welcome alternative as well. Gotta say I don't feel particularly safe making a point of this but it felt like a bit of an obligation and I really appreciate you doing something to makes me feel at least a little bit safer. Which point don't you feel safe making, and why? That you like people using GreenHorizons/GH and that they/them would be a welcome alternative (because you don't think we'll do that, or for some other reason)? Or that nowadays a person's pronouns are described as "a person's pronouns" and not "a person's preferred pronouns" (because some people were trivializing semantics earlier with the woman vs. female conversation, so they might also be dismissive of whether or not using "preferred" is a big deal, or for some other reason)? Or a different point?
All of the above+? Several people have already continued using "he/him" after I mentioned being genderqueer and pointed out that them failing to respect that was indicative that they were not actually engaging in good faith. Pretty sure someone tried to gaslight me about it too.
I'm already the defacto "Black council" here. ZerO could be included if/when they participate. It's not exactly helpful that the sort of phenomena I was describing in the beginning pushed ZerO to get banned so they can't right now. I don't want to end up the "chair of the genderqueer council". I don't like that this is opening myself up for endless sealioning, bad faith "oopsies", and too much more to list in this moment burying any sincere attempts at growth.
ZerO (and some others) could probably speak well to the danger of just expressing the kind of vulnerability required to convey that there's something wrong. Particularly for Black people AMAB.
@Fleet No worries mate! I appreciate the recognition on the leaving an out thing, and while scary, I'm thankful you asked in thread.
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On July 06 2026 10:39 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2026 10:20 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 06 2026 10:11 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 06 2026 09:48 Fleetfeet wrote:
Yup.
Sidebar - GH, you mentioned being genderqueer - what are your preferred pronouns these days?
Also, I have to consult the Trans Council (joking, just some friends who are some combination of either women and/or trans) for a sanity check, and then I'll be good to dive into some liquipedia editing. It really is and the ensuing discussion there wasn't very uplifting. They're just "pronouns" not "preferred pronouns" nowadays (you can't read my tone but it's pleasant, not demeaning). I like people using GreenHorizons/GH. "they" would be a welcome alternative as well. Gotta say I don't feel particularly safe making a point of this but it felt like a bit of an obligation and I really appreciate you doing something to makes me feel at least a little bit safer. Which point don't you feel safe making, and why? That you like people using GreenHorizons/GH and that they/them would be a welcome alternative (because you don't think we'll do that, or for some other reason)? Or that nowadays a person's pronouns are described as "a person's pronouns" and not "a person's preferred pronouns" (because some people were trivializing semantics earlier with the woman vs. female conversation, so they might also be dismissive of whether or not using "preferred" is a big deal, or for some other reason)? Or a different point? All of the above+? Several people have already continued using "he/him" after I mentioned being genderqueer and pointed out that them not respecting that wasn't indicative that they were actually engaging in good faith. Pretty sure someone tried to gaslight me about it too. I'm already the defacto "Black council" here. ZerO could be included if/when they participate. It's not exactly helpful that the sort of phenomena I was describing in the beginning pushed ZerO to get banned so they can't right now. I don't want to end up the "chair of the genderqueer council". I don't like that this is opening myself up for endless sealioning bad faith "oopsies" and too much more to list in this moment burying any sincere attempts at growth. ZerO (and some others) could probably speak well to the danger of just expressing the kind of vulnerability required to convey that there's something wrong. Particularly for Black people AMAB. @Fleet No worries mate! I appreciate the recognition on the leaving an out thing, and while scary, I'm thankful you asked in thread.
I just rechecked my recent posts and noticed that one of them - the long one - had he/his/him at the end instead of they/their/them, when referring to you. That was careless of me, and I'm sorry for that. I've gone back and corrected the pronouns in that post, though the new edits won't fix the quoted portions in other people's responses to the old version. I'll try not to make the same mistake again; I know it's my responsibility to get it right for future use, and not your responsibility to keep correcting me if I repeatedly mess up your pronouns. (That being said, if I do mess up someone's pronouns, I'm hoping that any person would just kindly poke me with a reminder.)
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On July 06 2026 11:34 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2026 10:39 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 06 2026 10:20 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 06 2026 10:11 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 06 2026 09:48 Fleetfeet wrote:
Yup.
Sidebar - GH, you mentioned being genderqueer - what are your preferred pronouns these days?
Also, I have to consult the Trans Council (joking, just some friends who are some combination of either women and/or trans) for a sanity check, and then I'll be good to dive into some liquipedia editing. It really is and the ensuing discussion there wasn't very uplifting. They're just "pronouns" not "preferred pronouns" nowadays (you can't read my tone but it's pleasant, not demeaning). I like people using GreenHorizons/GH. "they" would be a welcome alternative as well. Gotta say I don't feel particularly safe making a point of this but it felt like a bit of an obligation and I really appreciate you doing something to makes me feel at least a little bit safer. Which point don't you feel safe making, and why? That you like people using GreenHorizons/GH and that they/them would be a welcome alternative (because you don't think we'll do that, or for some other reason)? Or that nowadays a person's pronouns are described as "a person's pronouns" and not "a person's preferred pronouns" (because some people were trivializing semantics earlier with the woman vs. female conversation, so they might also be dismissive of whether or not using "preferred" is a big deal, or for some other reason)? Or a different point? All of the above+? Several people have already continued using "he/him" after I mentioned being genderqueer and pointed out that them not respecting that wasn't indicative that they were actually engaging in good faith. Pretty sure someone tried to gaslight me about it too. I'm already the defacto "Black council" here. ZerO could be included if/when they participate. It's not exactly helpful that the sort of phenomena I was describing in the beginning pushed ZerO to get banned so they can't right now. I don't want to end up the "chair of the genderqueer council". I don't like that this is opening myself up for endless sealioning bad faith "oopsies" and too much more to list in this moment burying any sincere attempts at growth. ZerO (and some others) could probably speak well to the danger of just expressing the kind of vulnerability required to convey that there's something wrong. Particularly for Black people AMAB. @Fleet No worries mate! I appreciate the recognition on the leaving an out thing, and while scary, I'm thankful you asked in thread. I just rechecked my recent posts and noticed that one of them - the long one - had he/his/him at the end instead of they/their/them, when referring to you. That was careless of me, and I'm sorry for that. I've gone back and corrected the pronouns in that post, though the new edits won't fix the quoted portions in other people's responses to the old version. I'll try not to make the same mistake again; I know it's my responsibility to get it right for future use, and not your responsibility to keep correcting me if I repeatedly mess up your pronouns. (That being said, if I do mess up someone's pronouns, I'm hoping that any person would just kindly poke me with a reminder.)
I appreciate that and totally understand. I hope others follow your and Fleetfeet's examples.
Happens to the best of us. That's typically how it gets handled when there aren't extenuating circumstances and what I try to do when applicable.
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Has Trump attended a single world cup match yet? Or is tonight's going to be the first? Seems the lack of participation by him is a performance of its own with how obnoxiously loud he is about everything else. I guess it doesn't look good to "truth" about immigration when France is showing what a successful melting pot looks like, the USA themselves are an intentionally inclusive team and he already got into a fight with the women's team last term: there probably isn't much political upside for him in football, so unless he likes it personally (which definitely doesn't seem like it), he's making a deliberate point of staying far away from the greatest sports tournament worldwide? At least it spares us the celebrity cam spotting him. Showing Infantino pretty much every match is already one too many punchable faces.
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On July 06 2026 10:39 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2026 10:20 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 06 2026 10:11 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 06 2026 09:48 Fleetfeet wrote:
Yup.
Sidebar - GH, you mentioned being genderqueer - what are your preferred pronouns these days?
Also, I have to consult the Trans Council (joking, just some friends who are some combination of either women and/or trans) for a sanity check, and then I'll be good to dive into some liquipedia editing. It really is and the ensuing discussion there wasn't very uplifting. They're just "pronouns" not "preferred pronouns" nowadays (you can't read my tone but it's pleasant, not demeaning). I like people using GreenHorizons/GH. "they" would be a welcome alternative as well. Gotta say I don't feel particularly safe making a point of this but it felt like a bit of an obligation and I really appreciate you doing something to makes me feel at least a little bit safer. Which point don't you feel safe making, and why? That you like people using GreenHorizons/GH and that they/them would be a welcome alternative (because you don't think we'll do that, or for some other reason)? Or that nowadays a person's pronouns are described as "a person's pronouns" and not "a person's preferred pronouns" (because some people were trivializing semantics earlier with the woman vs. female conversation, so they might also be dismissive of whether or not using "preferred" is a big deal, or for some other reason)? Or a different point? All of the above+? Several people have already continued using "he/him" after I mentioned being genderqueer and pointed out that them failing to respect that was indicative that they were not actually engaging in good faith. Pretty sure someone tried to gaslight me about it too.
No, all it is is indicative of your bad faith and unproductive behaviour. Genderqueer people are not a monolith either, some are fine with whatever pronoun, some prefer they/them, some stick to their "old" for one reason or another. It is on you to tell people your preference. Instead you deliberately don't and then weaponise your vagueness.
I am happy to accommodate your wishes once you actually voiced them (it seems like you still left it up to people to figure out if you want he/him/she/her/they/them, much like your behaviour throughout the entire discussion...), but I am also a big fan of energy and effort matching:
You showed no effort throughout the whole discussion, a clear determination to only put in the absolute minimum, and the energy you have given off has been anything but constructive, and I wouldn't be surprised at all if you are all bad faith. And thus that is what you get from me. For someone like Wombat or DarkPlasmaBall who have shown nothing but genuine efforts to understand and be understood I would happily go through my posts and correct it but for you? Nah, you don't get to expect anything from me apart from what you do yourself: the absolute bare minimum.
Everything you received these past few pages, and probably this thread in general. is entirely the result of your behaviour. The only thing you are victim of is your own character. If you don't feel safe declaring your pronouns in here, and thus people don't accommodate them, that is on you.
It is perfectly fine not putting in much effort to accommodate someone's preferences if they act like you do. It would be rude to ignore them, but anything that takes effort is perfectly fine not to do. If that happens to someone from a marginalised group, that sucks, but it isn't a shield to protect you from justified backlash.
Against my better judgement, I did show this to my trans friend, who did say she(her preferred pronoun) would identify as genderqueer herself. And her opinion of this whole thing pretty much mirrors what I threw at you right from the start: That you are the type of person that actively makes her life and struggles worse with your behaviour, that while there were some mistakes, overall everyone besides you seemed to make a genuine effort and that the only person she would not feel comfortable talking to or being around is you. In fact she went so far as to when I jokingly suggested she should hop in and post this herself, her response (after making fun of me for still frequenting forums... ouch) was "No thanks, I have better things to do" and pointing to you specifically why she wouldn't participate even if she did care about this community at all. And, even though a bit more hesitant, she did say that she would have absolutely no worries asking people to use specific pronouns, at least when it comes to the people in the last pages of this thread. She wouldn't go further than that, but that is entirely due to her not being familiar with this community overall, and having a low expectations of gaming communities. Her verdict was that if the last few pages, excluding you, are any indication for this community then "you can't really complain much", which translates to pretty fucking good coming from a german.
So I guess that officially counts at least for half a point for you on the "driven a trans person away from this community" scoreboard for you. How does that make you feel? Any intention of being a better representative of genderqueer people and womens issues/trans issues? We didn't have any prior interactions that I remember, and you managed to make me despise you in record time. A trans person who never met you singled you out throughout this entire exchange as the only person she is sure she wouldn't like/wouldn't feel comfortable discussing these things with. Maybe it really is just you?
Big props to the people who still extend a hand to you and apologise I am not that big of a person.
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