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On April 09 2025 08:17 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2025 06:36 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 09 2025 06:02 Impervious wrote:On April 08 2025 19:54 Gahlo wrote:I greatly prefer the 8 Values test if we're playing "online quiz, tell me what my politics are". I'm not sure how accurate that political test really is. Normally on these types of tests I fall fairly even between left and right, but about halfway down the libertarian end. A lot of these questions that are definitely leaning towards a "progressive" answer seem to be leading to a misleading answer. I'm more or less what I'm answering in an agreeable way for a progressive because they are anti-authoritarian in nature by their wording. Yeah, clearly there's some contradictions at play if so many people are identifying as libertarian socialists. Libertarian socialists tend to see the working class as agents of social revolution, reject representative democracy and electoralism, and advocate for self-organisation and direct action as means to engage in class conflict. I did this in 2015 and basically explored every politic between third way Democrats and Anarchism before settling on revolutionary socialism as the best path forward, until/unless I'm shown otherwise. Thus far, the most compelling path forward presented here besides revolutionary socialism, has also been presented by another iteration of myself, so I'm not optimistic there is a better path forward than revolutionary socialism. Consequently, I don't believe anyone else here plans on finding one. Can you get any more up your own arse? Aight you’ve convinced me, I’ll stop engaging on topics outside of The RevolutionTM, I’ll just outright not bother to reply to anyone on the right because I don’t want to be part of the ‘mean girls’ I might even call everyone else genocide enablers while I’m at it. Anyway, AFK a few months. Will check in and let the thread know how successful I’ve been. I’m pretty hopefully it’s gonna work I have go say
I believe you misunderstand the sentiment expressed in that post, it's not bragging, I'm lamenting my failures.
I believe you are also missing one of the most important parts of mockingly imitating me. You're supposed to come up with what is inarguably a better electoral plan for Democrats than anyone else has produced here thus far. Again, that's not a brag, that's an indictment of the ostensible progressives/libertarian socialists/etc here.
I know it's inarguably true, in part, because no one ever points to their better alternative they or someone else posted. They just throw a petulant shitfit or delusionally refuse to deal with that reality.
Being objectively correct apparently isn't much more helpful in convincing libs/Dems/ilk here than it is Trumpers.
I don't say all that to gloat or insult, I say that because I really believe we're in a critical moment in history. If there's a better way out of what it seems we all agree is coming than trying revolutionary socialism or LibHorizons plan, we all desperately need to hear/see it, and start working on it immediately. Our futures probably depend on it. + Show Spoiler +Not that we have to come up with the plan here, but we should be able to point to it somewhere so anyone that wants to can productively work toward it.
EDIT: + Show Spoiler +That said, I was sorta bored by the tariff discussion, but I'm not objecting to people having it or it having reasonable value. I also even did the political compass tests as 2 additional horizons on your request. I was mostly just pointing out that I don't think "libertarian socialists" is a very accurate description of the politics people here practice (with some exceptions). DSA style Dem socialists, sure (for the Europeans anyway). Lumping that in with "libertarian socialists" just muddies both terms imo. If people really want to identify as libertarian socialists after reading up on them, they are free to do that.
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On April 09 2025 06:28 Impervious wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2025 05:38 Biff The Understudy wrote:Ok, so, 104% tarif on everything Chinese, that’s gonna be popular. I don’t see Xi blinking either. I have to say, I’m kind of happy that China calls Trump’s bs but I just can’t fathom what the economic consequences are going to be. This lunatic is going to plunge us into a 1929 style crisis. Btw I’m obviously also libertarian socialist: https://8values.github.io/results.html?e=89.7&d=86.7&g=82.8&s=84.6 China is a net exporter in this situation, and large and diverse enough where they are overall self-sufficient, so they realistically don't need to trade with the USA like we do in Canada. They can provide everything they need for their population through internal production or existing trade with other nations. Yea, it'd hurt their industries and growth in the short term, but I think they'll be absolutely fine standing up to the USA, even in a protracted trade war. They also have the authoritarian government needed to actually go through with it..... The USA is a net importer, so they would struggle in the short term if trade was cut off or significantly costlier in this trade war. The USA will have an extremely difficult time replacing their trade with China with trade from other countries, especially with these global tariffs being levied on every country, and it would take years to ramp up domestic production to replace this trade reduction. I think this is definitely going to hurt the average American more than the average Chinese citizen. Prices at something like Dollar Tree or Walmart are going to go up, which is really going to hurt the Americans who are already worse off. And I can't see Trump or the republican Congress and Senate do anything to help these people. And even if they do something, it wouldn't be enough, nor would it be quick enough. It'd lead to civil unrest far faster in the USA than in China. There isn't really an opposite lever that the USA has on China. China has the cards here. Some of the key industries in the USA can't survive with a significant import of certain raw goods that the USA doesn't have, or can't develop in a short period of time. A number of industries would run into issues if a trade war lasts more than a few months and current stockpiles of those materials is depleted. This will have an impact on their military, as their military relies on some key materials that China is threatening to cut off. If they do, that will really hurt the USA. While there is definitely some key goods that the USA exports to China that would be difficult to replace, there isn't really a reciprocal situation that I've heard about that is anywhere near as severe, so this is another area where China is holding the cards. I really think that this is going to hurt both countries in the long run, but China is going to come out of this as the winner. And given how intertwined Canada is with the USA, this is also going to indirectly hurt us too. Given how stubborn Trump is, I don't see him caving quickly, and at this point, I think Xi is probably fed up with Trump enough that he'll keep this up just to spite Trump.
I'm not sure that how strong that argument is that the average Chinese citizen would be better off than someone from America if trade was suddenly severed between the two countries.
But in this specific context:
Doing these haphazard tariff increases against China while also simultaneously attacking every other global economy at once means China "wins" in the sense that in the long term other global economies will be more inclined to trade more with China rather than the United States. It is very telling that many countries are suddenly pivoting, looking to expand trade with one another away from the USA (China, Japan, Korea).
Trump is shooting and then aiming in real-time at the moment and it's very apparent with how they calculated the tariff rate, how they've surprised the stock market, bond market, commodities market, federal reserve, and Republican allies.
This is a fundamental policy mistake that is being suddenly implemented with zero strategy or coordination domestically or internationally.
Trump is mortgaging a lot of his political capital and the current power the United States has as the strongest economy in the world post-COVID. It is doubtful that the United States is going to retain this position any longer by the next decade or so.
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Anybody know what the rules are on indirect trade? Let's say a "new" mobile phone producer sets up shop in Mexico. They are really just Xiaomi, but repackaged in a slightly different case, and called Arrocito. Would these be subject to Chinese tariffs? Or Mexican tariffs?
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The rules are made up every day.
I think if you'd deal with a government of adults and professionals, and their policy would be to tariff chinese goods and not mexican goods, they would be on top of mexico having free trade with china, and not allowing funneling the goods via mexico to circumvent tariffs and just tariff by country of origin of X % of the products weight or parts.
If you deal with Trump, and he can ignore that loophole, while claiming to have achieved a trading surplus with China (on paper)
Maybe it goes through?!
Trump tariffing EU cars especially.. also hits Harddrives sold by the EU. Because a Hard DRIVE has the word DRIVE in it and it's a car thing to drive.
(Nah seriously, it's considered a car part)
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Regarding the 104% tariff on China, the factories there will really be feeling the heat.Nobody is going to buy an iPhone if you could potentially get it 1000$+ cheaper in a month or two when the tariffs are gone.
What Trump should be doing now is negotiating trade deals with both Thailand and Vietnam.Do that and the stream of factories leaving China for those two countries becomes a flood forcing China to make a move.
Pretty huge gamble but those government jobs eliminated by DOGE aren't coming back so if he can replace those jobs with productive roles it'd be a huge win.
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On April 09 2025 16:27 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
Regarding the 104% tariff on China, the factories there will really be feeling the heat.Nobody is going to buy an iPhone if you could potentially get it 1000$+ cheaper in a month or two when the tariffs are gone.
What Trump should be doing now is negotiating trade deals with both Thailand and Vietnam.Do that and the stream of factories leaving China for those two countries becomes a flood forcing China to make a move.
Pretty huge gamble but those government jobs eliminated by DOGE aren't coming back so if he can replace those jobs with productive roles it'd be a huge win.
If backing down was the best way to ensure minimal negative consequences for China, they would have backed down already.
The fundamental, basic way China conducts itself on the international stage is extremely risk averse. They will not get into a trade war with America if there is even a 1% chance that America will come out on top.
Therefore, if China is not backing down, I would be extremely worried if I was an American.
The attacks on America's economy are going to be very heavy and they are going to come from places that are not expected. You're going to see a collapse in long bonds, huge attacks on America's ability to sustain it current financial situation, and they are going to happen through markets that China has huge influence over.
China just needs to start the ball rolling, there is already huge appetite worldwide to stop Trump, and a collapse in market conditions in the US does not need to come from US citizens' actions, it can be done to America as revenge.
At some point, this attempt at trade bullying will stop because Trump will be forced to either back down or be removed from power, simple.
Its an absolutely ridiculous claim to make that America will be able to economically bully China like that. They just haven't prepared the conditions to be able to easily do so the way China have with America.
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Uhm Navarro aka Ron Vara said these tariffs are here to stay, and they are not a base of negotiation, they are to destroy the trade deficit, and either the products are more expensive, they are not getting sold in the US, or they will be made in the US.
Of course Trump said the Tariffs are in place to make foreign leaders kiss his butt and ask for deals.
Or they are not. They can be both.
Lutnick says they are definitively here to stay for days and weeks.
So nobody knows.
Bottomline: There is ZERO plan.
If I was CEO of a business selling high priced Items to US customers, I'd have no worries that the richest 10% of the housholds, that do spent 50% of all the money on consumer goods, will stil be able to buy my phone.
Just not the poorer 90% that is already underwater from loans and debt.
What Trump cuts in taxes at the top incomes, can be paid in tariffs.
Just not by the people who only occasionally get a new electronic device.. or appliance... and spent most money on food, rent and electricity.
Those people, being cut of from social security.. will resort to violence and property crime. As study shows, if you put a high enough income differential on neighbouring groups of people.. there will be theft, robbery, B&E and violence.
That's why gated neighbourhoods exist in shithole countries of the global south.
You better hope to live in a neighbourhood that's going to be gentrified by the gold-card russian oligarchs who bring some muscle and security.
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On April 09 2025 16:27 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
Regarding the 104% tariff on China, the factories there will really be feeling the heat.Nobody is going to buy an iPhone if you could potentially get it 1000$+ cheaper in a month or two when the tariffs are gone.
What Trump should be doing now is negotiating trade deals with both Thailand and Vietnam.Do that and the stream of factories leaving China for those two countries becomes a flood forcing China to make a move.
Pretty huge gamble but those government jobs eliminated by DOGE aren't coming back so if he can replace those jobs with productive roles it'd be a huge win.
If Trump worked his ass off right now to get manufacturing into the US to replace the job cuts due to DOGE, those factories would open after Trump is out of office. Kind of a problem.
Not only DOGE cuts, he also would need to open up even more factories to replace the jobs currently being cut due to his trade war. Doesn't make sense for companies to retain factory workers to build widgets when the raw materials being imported to make those widgets are now prohibitively expensive. Many companies have already announced layoffs.
That flood of factories leaving China would also take years to get up and running. Do you really think factories are going to pick up and leave China for Thailand and Vietnam when the US will fold the second a non-imbecile takes office? So again, they'll do their best to weather the storm while the US suffers. Long term, they may diversify their manufacturing.
However, they also have an advantage over the USA. America is a huge market, but it's not China's only market. There is no global trade war. It's the USA versus everybody. Everybody else is still trading. In fact, they are making stronger trade deals with each other. China can dump their excess goods on Europe, Canada, Mexico, Australia, South America, Africa, and the rest of Asia for small losses or small profits. Not as lucrative as the US market, but they can stay afloat for quite awhile and they know they just have to wait it out until there are riots in the streets in the US.
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On April 09 2025 17:15 RenSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2025 16:27 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
Regarding the 104% tariff on China, the factories there will really be feeling the heat.Nobody is going to buy an iPhone if you could potentially get it 1000$+ cheaper in a month or two when the tariffs are gone.
What Trump should be doing now is negotiating trade deals with both Thailand and Vietnam.Do that and the stream of factories leaving China for those two countries becomes a flood forcing China to make a move.
Pretty huge gamble but those government jobs eliminated by DOGE aren't coming back so if he can replace those jobs with productive roles it'd be a huge win. + Show Spoiler +If Trump worked his ass off right now to get manufacturing into the US to replace the job cuts due to DOGE, those factories would open after Trump is out of office. Kind of a problem.
Not only DOGE cuts, he also would need to open up even more factories to replace the jobs currently being cut due to his trade war. Doesn't make sense for companies to retain factory workers to build widgets when the raw materials being imported to make those widgets are now prohibitively expensive. Many companies have already announced layoffs.
That flood of factories leaving China would also take years to get up and running. Do you really think factories are going to pick up and leave China for Thailand and Vietnam when the US will fold the second a non-imbecile takes office? So again, they'll do their best to weather the storm while the US suffers. Long term, they may diversify their manufacturing.
However, they also have an advantage over the USA. America is a huge market, but it's not China's only market. There is no global trade war. It's the USA versus everybody. Everybody else is still trading. In fact, they are making stronger trade deals with each other. China can dump their excess goods on Europe, Canada, Mexico, Australia, South America, Africa, and the rest of Asia for small losses or small profits. Not as lucrative as the US market, but they can stay afloat for quite awhile and they know they just have to wait it out until there are riots in the streets in the US.
Well shit...As Acro pointed out
On April 09 2025 07:21 Acrofales wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 09 2025 02:28 Ciaus237 wrote:I will join the choir: https://8values.github.io/results.html?e=71.8&d=61.1&g=63.3&s=75.4(Social, peaceful, liberal, very progressive - while social I do like markets for some things and I think that reflects in the score). Also to be on topic: WTF is happening with the deportation case? The door feels open for Trump to just start throwing anyone he doesn't like in prisons far from any country they are a citizen of. On April 09 2025 02:52 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2025 02:28 Ciaus237 wrote:
Also to be on topic: WTF is happening with the deportation case? The door feels open for Trump to just start throwing anyone he doesn't like in prisons far from any country they are a citizen of. Its another frustrating example of laws only existing as-written without any consideration of intent. As it currently stands, the US government can legally create a situation where someone is beyond their reach as a form of imprisonment. Somehow, delivering someone to a place where the person can't be tracked, against their will, is not the fault or responsibility of the government. I think in this case there isn't much a court can or should do. The courts are there to uphold the law, and it's too late to do that. Expecting the courts to intervene in diplomacy with a foreign country is just not going to happen. The gross miscarriage of justice happened before, when he was deported without due process. Heads should roll because of that. But that is not the court's place. That is congress' role, and they should probably be impeaching Kristi Noem (over this and about a billion other things, but definitely this). And congress is dropping the ball. They have been dropping the ball for ages, and they are definitely not changing that now. Your next option is to stand up for your rights and protest. But you forgot how to do that too. So... gg.
Also, that's why there's been a bipartisan effort to lay the foundations of fascism.
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On April 09 2025 17:24 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2025 17:15 RenSC2 wrote:On April 09 2025 16:27 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
Regarding the 104% tariff on China, the factories there will really be feeling the heat.Nobody is going to buy an iPhone if you could potentially get it 1000$+ cheaper in a month or two when the tariffs are gone.
What Trump should be doing now is negotiating trade deals with both Thailand and Vietnam.Do that and the stream of factories leaving China for those two countries becomes a flood forcing China to make a move.
Pretty huge gamble but those government jobs eliminated by DOGE aren't coming back so if he can replace those jobs with productive roles it'd be a huge win. + Show Spoiler +If Trump worked his ass off right now to get manufacturing into the US to replace the job cuts due to DOGE, those factories would open after Trump is out of office. Kind of a problem.
Not only DOGE cuts, he also would need to open up even more factories to replace the jobs currently being cut due to his trade war. Doesn't make sense for companies to retain factory workers to build widgets when the raw materials being imported to make those widgets are now prohibitively expensive. Many companies have already announced layoffs.
That flood of factories leaving China would also take years to get up and running. Do you really think factories are going to pick up and leave China for Thailand and Vietnam when the US will fold the second a non-imbecile takes office? So again, they'll do their best to weather the storm while the US suffers. Long term, they may diversify their manufacturing.
However, they also have an advantage over the USA. America is a huge market, but it's not China's only market. There is no global trade war. It's the USA versus everybody. Everybody else is still trading. In fact, they are making stronger trade deals with each other. China can dump their excess goods on Europe, Canada, Mexico, Australia, South America, Africa, and the rest of Asia for small losses or small profits. Not as lucrative as the US market, but they can stay afloat for quite awhile and they know they just have to wait it out until there are riots in the streets in the US. Well shit...As Acro pointed out Show nested quote +On April 09 2025 07:21 Acrofales wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 09 2025 02:28 Ciaus237 wrote:I will join the choir: https://8values.github.io/results.html?e=71.8&d=61.1&g=63.3&s=75.4(Social, peaceful, liberal, very progressive - while social I do like markets for some things and I think that reflects in the score). Also to be on topic: WTF is happening with the deportation case? The door feels open for Trump to just start throwing anyone he doesn't like in prisons far from any country they are a citizen of. On April 09 2025 02:52 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2025 02:28 Ciaus237 wrote:
Also to be on topic: WTF is happening with the deportation case? The door feels open for Trump to just start throwing anyone he doesn't like in prisons far from any country they are a citizen of. Its another frustrating example of laws only existing as-written without any consideration of intent. As it currently stands, the US government can legally create a situation where someone is beyond their reach as a form of imprisonment. Somehow, delivering someone to a place where the person can't be tracked, against their will, is not the fault or responsibility of the government. I think in this case there isn't much a court can or should do. The courts are there to uphold the law, and it's too late to do that. Expecting the courts to intervene in diplomacy with a foreign country is just not going to happen. The gross miscarriage of justice happened before, when he was deported without due process. Heads should roll because of that. But that is not the court's place. That is congress' role, and they should probably be impeaching Kristi Noem (over this and about a billion other things, but definitely this). And congress is dropping the ball. They have been dropping the ball for ages, and they are definitely not changing that now. Your next option is to stand up for your rights and protest. But you forgot how to do that too. So... gg. Also, that's why there's been a bipartisan effort to lay the foundations of fascism.
We had riots when some lowlife got his neck kneeled on. Hell, we riot every time our local sports team wins the championship. The idea that we don't riot is ignorant. The problem is that as a country we don't give a shit about the rights of others, only our own. We're a selfish country. However, when we feel it ourselves, when we are the victim or see ourselves in the victim, that's when we blow.
People haven't really felt the pain of this shit yet. Numbers in a retirement account going down sucks, but doesn't hurt in the immediate and doesn't hurt people living paycheck to paycheck with no savings. When people can't afford basic shit due to mass inflation caused directly by tariffs, they'll feel it. If the tariffs keep up for long, it'll blow.
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On April 09 2025 17:41 RenSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2025 17:24 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 09 2025 17:15 RenSC2 wrote:On April 09 2025 16:27 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
Regarding the 104% tariff on China, the factories there will really be feeling the heat.Nobody is going to buy an iPhone if you could potentially get it 1000$+ cheaper in a month or two when the tariffs are gone.
What Trump should be doing now is negotiating trade deals with both Thailand and Vietnam.Do that and the stream of factories leaving China for those two countries becomes a flood forcing China to make a move.
Pretty huge gamble but those government jobs eliminated by DOGE aren't coming back so if he can replace those jobs with productive roles it'd be a huge win. + Show Spoiler +If Trump worked his ass off right now to get manufacturing into the US to replace the job cuts due to DOGE, those factories would open after Trump is out of office. Kind of a problem.
Not only DOGE cuts, he also would need to open up even more factories to replace the jobs currently being cut due to his trade war. Doesn't make sense for companies to retain factory workers to build widgets when the raw materials being imported to make those widgets are now prohibitively expensive. Many companies have already announced layoffs.
That flood of factories leaving China would also take years to get up and running. Do you really think factories are going to pick up and leave China for Thailand and Vietnam when the US will fold the second a non-imbecile takes office? So again, they'll do their best to weather the storm while the US suffers. Long term, they may diversify their manufacturing.
However, they also have an advantage over the USA. America is a huge market, but it's not China's only market. There is no global trade war. It's the USA versus everybody. Everybody else is still trading. In fact, they are making stronger trade deals with each other. China can dump their excess goods on Europe, Canada, Mexico, Australia, South America, Africa, and the rest of Asia for small losses or small profits. Not as lucrative as the US market, but they can stay afloat for quite awhile and they know they just have to wait it out until there are riots in the streets in the US. Well shit...As Acro pointed out On April 09 2025 07:21 Acrofales wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 09 2025 02:28 Ciaus237 wrote:I will join the choir: https://8values.github.io/results.html?e=71.8&d=61.1&g=63.3&s=75.4(Social, peaceful, liberal, very progressive - while social I do like markets for some things and I think that reflects in the score). Also to be on topic: WTF is happening with the deportation case? The door feels open for Trump to just start throwing anyone he doesn't like in prisons far from any country they are a citizen of. On April 09 2025 02:52 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2025 02:28 Ciaus237 wrote:
Also to be on topic: WTF is happening with the deportation case? The door feels open for Trump to just start throwing anyone he doesn't like in prisons far from any country they are a citizen of. Its another frustrating example of laws only existing as-written without any consideration of intent. As it currently stands, the US government can legally create a situation where someone is beyond their reach as a form of imprisonment. Somehow, delivering someone to a place where the person can't be tracked, against their will, is not the fault or responsibility of the government. I think in this case there isn't much a court can or should do. The courts are there to uphold the law, and it's too late to do that. Expecting the courts to intervene in diplomacy with a foreign country is just not going to happen. The gross miscarriage of justice happened before, when he was deported without due process. Heads should roll because of that. But that is not the court's place. That is congress' role, and they should probably be impeaching Kristi Noem (over this and about a billion other things, but definitely this). And congress is dropping the ball. They have been dropping the ball for ages, and they are definitely not changing that now. Your next option is to stand up for your rights and protest. But you forgot how to do that too. So... gg. Also, that's why there's been a bipartisan effort to lay the foundations of fascism. We had riots when some lowlife got his neck kneeled on. + Show Spoiler + Hell, we riot every time our local sports team wins the championship. The idea that we don't riot is ignorant. The problem is that as a country we don't give a shit about the rights of others, only our own. We're a selfish country. However, when we feel it ourselves, when we are the victim or see ourselves in the victim, that's when we blow.
People haven't really felt the pain of this shit yet. Numbers in a retirement account going down sucks, but doesn't hurt in the immediate and doesn't hurt people living paycheck to paycheck with no savings. When people can't afford basic shit due to mass inflation caused directly by tariffs, they'll feel it. If the tariffs keep up for long, it'll blow. That's a weird way to describe the country watching and reacting to cops brutally murdering a man over the course of several minutes...
The uprising around the murder of George Floyd was reasonably significant, it is still nowhere near what is needed. Trump digging up the BLM plaza in DC is sorta symbolic of that.
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On April 09 2025 16:27 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
Regarding the 104% tariff on China, the factories there will really be feeling the heat.Nobody is going to buy an iPhone if you could potentially get it 1000$+ cheaper in a month or two when the tariffs are gone.
What Trump should be doing now is negotiating trade deals with both Thailand and Vietnam.Do that and the stream of factories leaving China for those two countries becomes a flood forcing China to make a move.
Pretty huge gamble but those government jobs eliminated by DOGE aren't coming back so if he can replace those jobs with productive roles it'd be a huge win.
Do you think the country that was welding people's doors closed during COVID won't have the stomach for this trade war? Trump's supporters are already starting to turn on him and it hasn't even been a week. Republicans are ducking town hall events because they are being shouted out of the room. Trump will crack long before China does and if he doesn't then President Vance will.
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On April 09 2025 07:35 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2025 07:31 Gorsameth wrote:On April 09 2025 07:07 Vivax wrote:On April 09 2025 06:44 Gorsameth wrote:On April 09 2025 06:29 Vivax wrote:On April 09 2025 06:19 Gorsameth wrote:
If anyone needed yet another reason why there is no point in trying to stroke Trumps ego and give him a win, he goes and does that rofl.
I just hope Europe aren't a bunch of cowards and react harshly. Let Trump find out what happens in a world vs US trade war. Escalation doesn‘t help much. Musk trying to mediate is a positive for a change. Best case scenario is to stop Trump from engaging in provocative actionism and support of the Russian invasion further. Dude needs to see a shrink. You can't get Trump to stop, the best you can do is make other people stop Trump. Escalate and pressure Congress to take away the Executive's power over tariffs. Just wear a suit, say thank you, and throw him a bag You mean like Netanyahu just did to no avail? Netanyahu primarily represented his country. What Trump said is true, actually. He‘s not in a position to lower tariffs on Israel alone without looking worse than he already does. If I could assume that Ben N. tried to lower tariffs for all countries, of which I see no indication, I‘d agree with you. I feel like we are talking past each other.
Netanyahu went to Trump and kissed his ass, they agreed to a 0 for 0 tariff deal. A day later Trump changed his mind.
Therefor it makes no sense for individual countries, or blocks of countries like the EU, to try and make a deal with Trump.
As there is no point in making a deal with Trump, because he just changes his mind a day later, the next best thing is to get Congress to take away Trumps ability to decide on tariffs. So you need to pressure Congress to move against Trump and you can do that by putting pressure on their constituents via reciprocal tariffs.
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Only the Trump system allows for an literal moron like Elon or "Peter Retarrdo" (sic! literal quote) to gain this much power.
It's the ultimate evidence that there is no deep state. A deep state wouldn't have allowed this.
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On April 09 2025 17:56 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2025 16:27 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
Regarding the 104% tariff on China, the factories there will really be feeling the heat.Nobody is going to buy an iPhone if you could potentially get it 1000$+ cheaper in a month or two when the tariffs are gone.
What Trump should be doing now is negotiating trade deals with both Thailand and Vietnam.Do that and the stream of factories leaving China for those two countries becomes a flood forcing China to make a move.
Pretty huge gamble but those government jobs eliminated by DOGE aren't coming back so if he can replace those jobs with productive roles it'd be a huge win. Do you think the country that was welding people's doors closed during COVID won't have the stomach for this trade war? Trump's supporters are already starting to turn on him and it hasn't even been a week. Republicans are ducking town hall events because they are being shouted out of the room. Trump will crack long before China does and if he doesn't then President Vance will.
Yeah, I agree. Americans just love to buy stuff, and more than most, they measure success and quality of life on how much stuff they have been able to gather. Cars, electronics, tools etc.
Far too many did not believe the Democrats that the tariffs would hurt their ability to buy shit, but now they will. My prediction is that they will have no patience with Trump or the GOP once phone prices start to skyrocket.
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On April 09 2025 18:28 Slydie wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2025 17:56 BlackJack wrote:On April 09 2025 16:27 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
Regarding the 104% tariff on China, the factories there will really be feeling the heat.Nobody is going to buy an iPhone if you could potentially get it 1000$+ cheaper in a month or two when the tariffs are gone.
What Trump should be doing now is negotiating trade deals with both Thailand and Vietnam.Do that and the stream of factories leaving China for those two countries becomes a flood forcing China to make a move.
Pretty huge gamble but those government jobs eliminated by DOGE aren't coming back so if he can replace those jobs with productive roles it'd be a huge win. Do you think the country that was welding people's doors closed during COVID won't have the stomach for this trade war? Trump's supporters are already starting to turn on him and it hasn't even been a week. Republicans are ducking town hall events because they are being shouted out of the room. Trump will crack long before China does and if he doesn't then President Vance will. Yeah, I agree. Americans just love to buy stuff, and more than most, they measure success and quality of life on how much stuff they have been able to gather. Cars, electronics, tools etc. Far too many did not believe the Democrats that the tariffs would hurt their ability to buy shit, but now they will. My prediction is that they will have no patience with Trump or the GOP once phone prices start to skyrocket.
Yup. John Doe will not be happy when his 2 year TV replacement strategy costs him $500 instead of $250.
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On April 09 2025 18:01 Gorsameth wrote:
As there is no point in making a deal with Trump, because he just changes his mind a day later, the next best thing is to get Congress to take away Trumps ability to decide on tariffs. So you need to pressure Congress to move against Trump and you can do that by putting pressure on their constituents via reciprocal tariffs.
What are the chances of this happening?
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Assuming the US is still a democracy and (IF, BIG IF) republicans aren't truely a 1 person party, very high. The question is more how long it will take, not if it will happen.
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United States42967 Posts
On April 09 2025 21:28 Timebon3s wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2025 18:01 Gorsameth wrote:
As there is no point in making a deal with Trump, because he just changes his mind a day later, the next best thing is to get Congress to take away Trumps ability to decide on tariffs. So you need to pressure Congress to move against Trump and you can do that by putting pressure on their constituents via reciprocal tariffs. What are the chances of this happening?
Trump called Ted Cruz's wife ugly and Ted Cruz made phone calls begging for votes on Trump's behalf. Pence failed to condemn the policy of "hang Mike Pence".
Waiting for Republicans politicians to turn on Trump is not going to go well.
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Yeah that's what I thought, but aren't politicians influenced by corporations? And if they suffer greatly for this, will this somehow impact their behaviour towards Trump?
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EPT
