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Northern Ireland23732 Posts
‘Make America Grating Again’ would be an apt one perhaps?
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On February 05 2025 09:27 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2025 08:27 WombaT wrote:On February 05 2025 07:30 Luolis wrote:On February 05 2025 07:23 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 05 2025 07:21 Luolis wrote:On February 05 2025 07:15 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 05 2025 07:11 KwarK wrote:On February 05 2025 07:04 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 05 2025 06:51 Luolis wrote:On February 05 2025 06:29 Vindicare605 wrote:
[quote]
No Kwark it doesn't. There are dozens of people I talk to, family members I talk to, that are not racist people, that get fed up of being called racist because they support a policy that Republicans support.
If they voted for Republicans, at best they ignore their racism and bigotry because they prioritise their own perceived gain over that. I guess you can try to explain yourself around that, but at the end of the day youre fine with hurting other people because you got mad someone called you "racist" (proving the point funnily enough). Guns, and Taxes. That's 90% of why my family members are Republicans. Guns and Taxes. That's literally it. Explain to me how that makes them racist? Whenever we get into arguments about politics at family get togethers, they actually support more Democratic policies than they support Republican policies, but because Guns and Taxes is what they care about the MOST, that's who they vote for. This is a huge reason why I can't stand single issue voters, but that's another topic. Whenever they get roped into all of the trans arguments, and topics about immigration, they sit back and say that they don't want anything to do with any of that. We can't get them to care, because these are simply issues they don't care about. Now what do you think would happen if I called them racist at one of these gatherings for supporting the Republicans? Nothing. Nothing except a big fight about how could I call them racist when their parents are 1st generation Mexican and they have a wife who is black? Nothing changes about any of their political opinions except now I've just made the entire get together one big hostile place, where I'm now the asshole for ruining everyone's good time. Do you get it now? Do you get how throwing around the word racist doesn't do anything to help anybody? Being willing to sell out people of a different race because of gun ownership fearmongering is a pretty racist thing to do. Voting for racists pledging to enact racism is a racist thing to do, even if you didn’t vote for them specifically for the racism. It’s a dealbreaker for non racists. You need to make concessions somewhere Kwark, because in a Democracy, you can't afford to isolate every single person that doesn't conform exactly to your EXTREMELY strict rules about what makes them a racist or not. Because like I said. The Democrats are losers. They've lost to Donald Trump twice now, and even if the Democrats somehow manage to win in 2028, we still have 30 years at minimum of a Supreme Court that is stacked full of Republicans. At some point you need to step back and ask yourself if you're tired of your side losing, because I sure as hell am. Whats the concession? Sell out brown people, LGBTQ+ and other minorities? To me it seems like theres a huge portion of Americans who will not vote for you, unless you actively want to throw them in the oven (exaggerated for making a point). Democrats have been treating Republicans with kid gloves and tried to build a bridge with the so-called "sensible republicans", yet all that has gotten for you is an even more extreme Republican party in power, and a huge shift in the Overton window to the right. Here's the concession, here's all I'm asking for him specifically to do. Stop calling people racist. Use any other collection of words. Use any other method of trying to convince people to have empathy and compassion for other people. Stop using a buzzword and then cutting them off and thinking it's going to get him anywhere. Because all it does is cause people to disengage with him and tune him out. Just like voters have done with the Democratic Party. I mean i'm looking at this from the outside, and apart from like the university lefty "sjw gets owned by facts and logic"-types, Democrats have been super kind to Republicans. They've handed out the olive branch for a long time to the right (more than i would like them to) but all they get for that work is more radicalized Republicans and also left wingers abandon them because theyre trying to speak sense into a cult. On February 05 2025 07:15 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 05 2025 07:11 KwarK wrote:On February 05 2025 07:04 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 05 2025 06:51 Luolis wrote:On February 05 2025 06:29 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 05 2025 06:25 KwarK wrote:On February 05 2025 06:24 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 05 2025 06:18 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
That's literally not what you said. You said that the Democrats can't simply state that the Republicans are proposing racist policies and trust the people to vote against racism, which is right, but you said it from a stance of pro-racism. Your objection was that they were calling out racists and you were proud that you personally never do that.
The Democrats weren't wrong that the Republicans are being super fucking racist, they were wrong to think that the people would care. You know what I would do instead? Since I can't get you to understand why throwing the word Racist around gets you negative points with voters, let me tell you what I would do instead. I would propose alternative policy. I would simply go in front of congress, and I would introduce an alternative bill that deals with whatever issue the Republicans are proposing and I would do it in a way that isn't racist as fuck. Instead of focusing everything on illegal immigrants I would introduce bills to punish companies for hiring illegal immigrants, I would introduce new taxes on companies that outsource jobs like Bernie wants to do. I would take the issue and I would spin towards something I wanted done, because at the end of the day, the American public most of all just wants to see things getting done. But when all you do all day is stand at the podium and call people names, that just makes it look like you're wasting everyone's time and more importantly everyone's money. Throwing the word racist around gets you negative points with racists. What you're apparently incapable of understanding is that you're not meant to be racist. It's a bad thing. That's why I'm blaming the American people for being racist and saying that people attacking the democrat platform for being a little racist are missing the point. No Kwark it doesn't. There are dozens of people I talk to, family members I talk to, that are not racist people, that get fed up of being called racist because they support a policy that Republicans support. If they voted for Republicans, at best they ignore their racism and bigotry because they prioritise their own perceived gain over that. I guess you can try to explain yourself around that, but at the end of the day youre fine with hurting other people because you got mad someone called you "racist" (proving the point funnily enough). Guns, and Taxes. That's 90% of why my family members are Republicans. Guns and Taxes. That's literally it. Explain to me how that makes them racist? Whenever we get into arguments about politics at family get togethers, they actually support more Democratic policies than they support Republican policies, but because Guns and Taxes is what they care about the MOST, that's who they vote for. This is a huge reason why I can't stand single issue voters, but that's another topic. Whenever they get roped into all of the trans arguments, and topics about immigration, they sit back and say that they don't want anything to do with any of that. We can't get them to care, because these are simply issues they don't care about. Now what do you think would happen if I called them racist at one of these gatherings for supporting the Republicans? Nothing. Nothing except a big fight about how could I call them racist when their parents are 1st generation Mexican and they have a wife who is black? Nothing changes about any of their political opinions except now I've just made the entire get together one big hostile place, where I'm now the asshole for ruining everyone's good time. Do you get it now? Do you get how throwing around the word racist doesn't do anything to help anybody? Being willing to sell out people of a different race because of gun ownership fearmongering is a pretty racist thing to do. Voting for racists pledging to enact racism is a racist thing to do, even if you didn’t vote for them specifically for the racism. It’s a dealbreaker for non racists. You need to make concessions somewhere Kwark, because in a Democracy, you can't afford to isolate every single person that doesn't conform exactly to your EXTREMELY strict rules about what makes them a racist or not. Because like I said. The Democrats are losers. They've lost to Donald Trump twice now, and even if the Democrats somehow manage to win in 2028, we still have 30 years at minimum of a Supreme Court that is stacked full of Republicans. At some point you need to step back and ask yourself if you're tired of your side losing, because I sure as hell am. Then don’t discuss politics at all would be my concession. One I do apply from time to time in my life when I’m with people who I know will react badly to me being critical for some of their positions. Now, I will concede that charges of various forms of bigotry are definitely overused, and are can be counter-productive and alienating. We’re also in 2025, not 2016. Many unknowns are now very much known knowns, (not sure about unknown unknowns). There’s no plausible deniability anymore, people know exactly what they’re voting for on a Trump ticket. It’s not just a bit of racist dogwhistling here or there, there is just so much about his platform and indeed person that I find absolutely morally repugnant. You better have a damn good reason, such as the other candidate being Mecha HitlerTM, or I’m going to be critical of that choice. There are alternatives here if one doesn’t wanna be called x y or z, such as not supporting the dude who’s doing x y and z. One could, for example, vote for your local neighbourhood Spider-Man, or State legislator, who are absolute gun freaks and tax hawks but more moderate, and go ‘Yanno what this Trump guy takes it a bit far, I’ll stay at home or go 3rd Party this time.’ Overall political discourse yeah, it can be toxic as fuck these days. But a big, and I feel underdiscussed aspect of that isn’t just the name-calling, it’s people who can’t take any criticism, nor want to actually learn and inform their positions. Across the ideological spectrum too, nobody has a particular monopoly on that. Look, everyone going back to their side of the room and not talking to each other might be an acceptable strategy if the Democrats are still winning. But the Democrats lost. Again. And this time the Democrats lost all 3 branches of government. It hasn't even been a month under the second Donald Trump administration and it feels like Donald Trump has already set us back 20 years in terms of how long it's going to take to fix all of the problems he's causing. Something needs to give here. The Democrats can't keep running the same play book over and over again when it's clearly not working. At some point Democrats need to have the uncomfortable conversation with themselves that somehow despite being the party that is on the right side of almost every issue that they are so unpopular with the country that the country would rather elect these assholes than them. I know from what I've experienced and heard what I think they should change, but it frankly baffles me that people in this thread think the Democrats don't need to change anything and want to run it back again, after what we've seen in the last 3 elections.
I think Democrats should change. They should call out Republicans for being bad people. They should call them racist and deplorable traitors to America, who voted in a guy who wanted to coup the government when he lost an election.
They shouldn't be petting the heads of these people like they have been now. GH is right in that the Democrats are toothless and trying to build bridges with fascists and that shouldn't be the case. Democrats *should* go for left wing populism.
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United States41934 Posts
On February 05 2025 08:53 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2025 08:09 KwarK wrote:On February 05 2025 07:40 Sadist wrote:
I just say democrats campaign on the belief for equal rights for all, implement it, and leave it at that. Getting bogged down on specifics is a sure fire way to alienate some people. Just say equal rights and implement the policies. Dont let Republicans try to control the narrative and make everything about trans issues or other issues. Equal rights includes all minority groups by default.
They literally couldn't get people to agree with the statement that black lives matter. That was apparently a bridge too far for America. And Democrats don’t even want to Make America Great Again? Do they hate America? Or we can not pretend these slogans are meat to be taken literally and there’s not an ideology attached to them.
It's not at all comparable to MAGA. A better comparison to MAGA would be Build Back Better.
Black lives matter is a response to the observation that issues that disproportionately impact black Americans, such as police brutality, high crime neighbourhoods, lack of access to education, lack of community resources etc. are treated as not important in a way that they would not be if they impacted white Americans. The conclusion is that these issues are not viewed as important because the people whose lives are impacted are not important. That police brutality against black Americans does not matter to the public because black Americans do not matter to public.
It's a very short, very clear, very clean thesis. "You act like you don't care about us because you literally do not care about us". It's all packaged in a neat little bow.
Their statement is also very clean, very concise, very neat. Black lives matter. That's it. We matter, please could society address the issues impacting our communities as if our lives matter.
It doesn't mean voting a certain way, it doesn't have a policy platform, there's no party or political leader attached to it, it's not about that, it's completely incomparable to MAGA. It's literally just that they would like people to act as if black lives were important. That's it.
It was too controversial and so instead we have trucks rolling coal with big "black smoke matters" decals.
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People vote for Trump because he lies more effectively than other candidates have done before him. He doesn't need to lie believably, instead he relies on a media apparatus that supports and spreads his lies for him. It's an entire machine working for him. Individual people are hopelessly lost in this chaos. They can't possibly figure out how to find the truth.
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On February 05 2025 10:01 Magic Powers wrote:
People vote for Trump because he lies more effectively than other candidates have done before him. He doesn't need to lie believably, instead he relies on a media apparatus that supports and spreads his lies for him. It's an entire machine working for him. Individual people are hopelessly lost in this chaos. They can't possibly figure out how to find the truth.
An unfortunate little quirk to all this: People view his excessive lying as proof of passion and determination to address people's concerns. Even when they know he won't do everything he promises, they view it as evidence he is a fighter and really wants to do right by people. Its a terrible situation.
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On February 05 2025 10:01 Magic Powers wrote:
Individual people are hopelessly lost in this chaos. They can't possibly figure out how to find the truth.
Except you, right?
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Northern Ireland23732 Posts
On February 05 2025 09:27 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2025 08:27 WombaT wrote:On February 05 2025 07:30 Luolis wrote:On February 05 2025 07:23 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 05 2025 07:21 Luolis wrote:On February 05 2025 07:15 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 05 2025 07:11 KwarK wrote:On February 05 2025 07:04 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 05 2025 06:51 Luolis wrote:On February 05 2025 06:29 Vindicare605 wrote:
[quote]
No Kwark it doesn't. There are dozens of people I talk to, family members I talk to, that are not racist people, that get fed up of being called racist because they support a policy that Republicans support.
If they voted for Republicans, at best they ignore their racism and bigotry because they prioritise their own perceived gain over that. I guess you can try to explain yourself around that, but at the end of the day youre fine with hurting other people because you got mad someone called you "racist" (proving the point funnily enough). Guns, and Taxes. That's 90% of why my family members are Republicans. Guns and Taxes. That's literally it. Explain to me how that makes them racist? Whenever we get into arguments about politics at family get togethers, they actually support more Democratic policies than they support Republican policies, but because Guns and Taxes is what they care about the MOST, that's who they vote for. This is a huge reason why I can't stand single issue voters, but that's another topic. Whenever they get roped into all of the trans arguments, and topics about immigration, they sit back and say that they don't want anything to do with any of that. We can't get them to care, because these are simply issues they don't care about. Now what do you think would happen if I called them racist at one of these gatherings for supporting the Republicans? Nothing. Nothing except a big fight about how could I call them racist when their parents are 1st generation Mexican and they have a wife who is black? Nothing changes about any of their political opinions except now I've just made the entire get together one big hostile place, where I'm now the asshole for ruining everyone's good time. Do you get it now? Do you get how throwing around the word racist doesn't do anything to help anybody? Being willing to sell out people of a different race because of gun ownership fearmongering is a pretty racist thing to do. Voting for racists pledging to enact racism is a racist thing to do, even if you didn’t vote for them specifically for the racism. It’s a dealbreaker for non racists. You need to make concessions somewhere Kwark, because in a Democracy, you can't afford to isolate every single person that doesn't conform exactly to your EXTREMELY strict rules about what makes them a racist or not. Because like I said. The Democrats are losers. They've lost to Donald Trump twice now, and even if the Democrats somehow manage to win in 2028, we still have 30 years at minimum of a Supreme Court that is stacked full of Republicans. At some point you need to step back and ask yourself if you're tired of your side losing, because I sure as hell am. Whats the concession? Sell out brown people, LGBTQ+ and other minorities? To me it seems like theres a huge portion of Americans who will not vote for you, unless you actively want to throw them in the oven (exaggerated for making a point). Democrats have been treating Republicans with kid gloves and tried to build a bridge with the so-called "sensible republicans", yet all that has gotten for you is an even more extreme Republican party in power, and a huge shift in the Overton window to the right. Here's the concession, here's all I'm asking for him specifically to do. Stop calling people racist. Use any other collection of words. Use any other method of trying to convince people to have empathy and compassion for other people. Stop using a buzzword and then cutting them off and thinking it's going to get him anywhere. Because all it does is cause people to disengage with him and tune him out. Just like voters have done with the Democratic Party. I mean i'm looking at this from the outside, and apart from like the university lefty "sjw gets owned by facts and logic"-types, Democrats have been super kind to Republicans. They've handed out the olive branch for a long time to the right (more than i would like them to) but all they get for that work is more radicalized Republicans and also left wingers abandon them because theyre trying to speak sense into a cult. On February 05 2025 07:15 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 05 2025 07:11 KwarK wrote:On February 05 2025 07:04 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 05 2025 06:51 Luolis wrote:On February 05 2025 06:29 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 05 2025 06:25 KwarK wrote:On February 05 2025 06:24 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 05 2025 06:18 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
That's literally not what you said. You said that the Democrats can't simply state that the Republicans are proposing racist policies and trust the people to vote against racism, which is right, but you said it from a stance of pro-racism. Your objection was that they were calling out racists and you were proud that you personally never do that.
The Democrats weren't wrong that the Republicans are being super fucking racist, they were wrong to think that the people would care. You know what I would do instead? Since I can't get you to understand why throwing the word Racist around gets you negative points with voters, let me tell you what I would do instead. I would propose alternative policy. I would simply go in front of congress, and I would introduce an alternative bill that deals with whatever issue the Republicans are proposing and I would do it in a way that isn't racist as fuck. Instead of focusing everything on illegal immigrants I would introduce bills to punish companies for hiring illegal immigrants, I would introduce new taxes on companies that outsource jobs like Bernie wants to do. I would take the issue and I would spin towards something I wanted done, because at the end of the day, the American public most of all just wants to see things getting done. But when all you do all day is stand at the podium and call people names, that just makes it look like you're wasting everyone's time and more importantly everyone's money. Throwing the word racist around gets you negative points with racists. What you're apparently incapable of understanding is that you're not meant to be racist. It's a bad thing. That's why I'm blaming the American people for being racist and saying that people attacking the democrat platform for being a little racist are missing the point. No Kwark it doesn't. There are dozens of people I talk to, family members I talk to, that are not racist people, that get fed up of being called racist because they support a policy that Republicans support. If they voted for Republicans, at best they ignore their racism and bigotry because they prioritise their own perceived gain over that. I guess you can try to explain yourself around that, but at the end of the day youre fine with hurting other people because you got mad someone called you "racist" (proving the point funnily enough). Guns, and Taxes. That's 90% of why my family members are Republicans. Guns and Taxes. That's literally it. Explain to me how that makes them racist? Whenever we get into arguments about politics at family get togethers, they actually support more Democratic policies than they support Republican policies, but because Guns and Taxes is what they care about the MOST, that's who they vote for. This is a huge reason why I can't stand single issue voters, but that's another topic. Whenever they get roped into all of the trans arguments, and topics about immigration, they sit back and say that they don't want anything to do with any of that. We can't get them to care, because these are simply issues they don't care about. Now what do you think would happen if I called them racist at one of these gatherings for supporting the Republicans? Nothing. Nothing except a big fight about how could I call them racist when their parents are 1st generation Mexican and they have a wife who is black? Nothing changes about any of their political opinions except now I've just made the entire get together one big hostile place, where I'm now the asshole for ruining everyone's good time. Do you get it now? Do you get how throwing around the word racist doesn't do anything to help anybody? Being willing to sell out people of a different race because of gun ownership fearmongering is a pretty racist thing to do. Voting for racists pledging to enact racism is a racist thing to do, even if you didn’t vote for them specifically for the racism. It’s a dealbreaker for non racists. You need to make concessions somewhere Kwark, because in a Democracy, you can't afford to isolate every single person that doesn't conform exactly to your EXTREMELY strict rules about what makes them a racist or not. Because like I said. The Democrats are losers. They've lost to Donald Trump twice now, and even if the Democrats somehow manage to win in 2028, we still have 30 years at minimum of a Supreme Court that is stacked full of Republicans. At some point you need to step back and ask yourself if you're tired of your side losing, because I sure as hell am. Then don’t discuss politics at all would be my concession. One I do apply from time to time in my life when I’m with people who I know will react badly to me being critical for some of their positions. Now, I will concede that charges of various forms of bigotry are definitely overused, and are can be counter-productive and alienating. We’re also in 2025, not 2016. Many unknowns are now very much known knowns, (not sure about unknown unknowns). There’s no plausible deniability anymore, people know exactly what they’re voting for on a Trump ticket. It’s not just a bit of racist dogwhistling here or there, there is just so much about his platform and indeed person that I find absolutely morally repugnant. You better have a damn good reason, such as the other candidate being Mecha HitlerTM, or I’m going to be critical of that choice. There are alternatives here if one doesn’t wanna be called x y or z, such as not supporting the dude who’s doing x y and z. One could, for example, vote for your local neighbourhood Spider-Man, or State legislator, who are absolute gun freaks and tax hawks but more moderate, and go ‘Yanno what this Trump guy takes it a bit far, I’ll stay at home or go 3rd Party this time.’ Overall political discourse yeah, it can be toxic as fuck these days. But a big, and I feel underdiscussed aspect of that isn’t just the name-calling, it’s people who can’t take any criticism, nor want to actually learn and inform their positions. Across the ideological spectrum too, nobody has a particular monopoly on that. Look, everyone going back to their side of the room and not talking to each other might be an acceptable strategy if the Democrats are still winning. But the Democrats lost. Again. And this time the Democrats lost all 3 branches of government. It hasn't even been a month under the second Donald Trump administration and it feels like Donald Trump has already set us back 20 years in terms of how long it's going to take to fix all of the problems he's causing. Something needs to give here. The Democrats can't keep running the same play book over and over again when it's clearly not working. At some point Democrats need to have the uncomfortable conversation with themselves that somehow despite being the party that is on the right side of almost every issue that they are so unpopular with the country that the country would rather elect these assholes than them. I know from what I've experienced and heard what I think they should change, but it frankly baffles me that people in this thread think the Democrats don't need to change anything and want to run it back again, after what we've seen in the last 3 elections.
I think very few people in here think they don’t need to change something, the question is what that is,
One problem, as I see it is simply that racists and crypto-fascist types will either lie to you, or indeed be unaware at quite how deep-seated their predjudices are.
So they’ll spin a wee yarn that hey, they’re quite moderate really and if you throw them a bone on something like immigration they’ll come over.
Except they don’t come over, and in attempting to court them the centre thru left parts can often alienate their actual bases.
And to a degree I think you see this reflected in pollsters frequently getting their numbers wrong when it comes to far-right parties, in many elections in many places.
This can only so consistently happen, and basically solely misjudge far right parties, if potential voters are lying to pollsters. And I think ultimately it’s because those folks know they’re voting for shitbags and don’t want to be judged for their choice.
Look I dunno what the actual numbers are, but I’d just utterly discount that segment of the population from my political calculations entirely.
I’d find policies that are broadly popular in a bipartisan sense and laser focus on those.
I’d throw the left some bones, without wholly pivoting that way. Despite my personal leanings, it’s not a left wing county, but it’s not an insignificant cohort.
Id change messaging a bit and flip things around a little. Stop jumping into the hoops the GOP create around you and those traps.
Trans folks being a case in point. Don’t abandon them obviously but equally you don’t have to do battle on the GOP’s terms. They’re a tiny, tiny minority of people.
You can say that, you can just continually repeat that medical expertise considers it a legitimate condition, and the Republicans are just scaremongering around an ultimately insignificant group of the populace. You can point out that the same folks who care about the integrity of woman’s sports are the same ones who make fun of the WNBA
Instead I think a lot of messaging there while coming from a reasonable place hasn’t been that well focused or considered.
I dunno, it’s just one example and I’m trying to put myself into the headspace of others. But I think many would respond better to that than some of the messaging we’ve seen in recent years.
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On February 05 2025 08:08 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2025 07:20 Zambrah wrote:On February 05 2025 07:19 KwarK wrote:On February 05 2025 07:15 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 05 2025 07:11 KwarK wrote:On February 05 2025 07:04 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 05 2025 06:51 Luolis wrote:On February 05 2025 06:29 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 05 2025 06:25 KwarK wrote:On February 05 2025 06:24 Vindicare605 wrote:
[quote]
You know what I would do instead? Since I can't get you to understand why throwing the word Racist around gets you negative points with voters, let me tell you what I would do instead.
I would propose alternative policy. I would simply go in front of congress, and I would introduce an alternative bill that deals with whatever issue the Republicans are proposing and I would do it in a way that isn't racist as fuck. Instead of focusing everything on illegal immigrants I would introduce bills to punish companies for hiring illegal immigrants, I would introduce new taxes on companies that outsource jobs like Bernie wants to do.
I would take the issue and I would spin towards something I wanted done, because at the end of the day, the American public most of all just wants to see things getting done. But when all you do all day is stand at the podium and call people names, that just makes it look like you're wasting everyone's time and more importantly everyone's money. Throwing the word racist around gets you negative points with racists. What you're apparently incapable of understanding is that you're not meant to be racist. It's a bad thing. That's why I'm blaming the American people for being racist and saying that people attacking the democrat platform for being a little racist are missing the point. No Kwark it doesn't. There are dozens of people I talk to, family members I talk to, that are not racist people, that get fed up of being called racist because they support a policy that Republicans support. If they voted for Republicans, at best they ignore their racism and bigotry because they prioritise their own perceived gain over that. I guess you can try to explain yourself around that, but at the end of the day youre fine with hurting other people because you got mad someone called you "racist" (proving the point funnily enough). Guns, and Taxes. That's 90% of why my family members are Republicans. Guns and Taxes. That's literally it. Explain to me how that makes them racist? Whenever we get into arguments about politics at family get togethers, they actually support more Democratic policies than they support Republican policies, but because Guns and Taxes is what they care about the MOST, that's who they vote for. This is a huge reason why I can't stand single issue voters, but that's another topic. Whenever they get roped into all of the trans arguments, and topics about immigration, they sit back and say that they don't want anything to do with any of that. We can't get them to care, because these are simply issues they don't care about. Now what do you think would happen if I called them racist at one of these gatherings for supporting the Republicans? Nothing. Nothing except a big fight about how could I call them racist when their parents are 1st generation Mexican and they have a wife who is black? Nothing changes about any of their political opinions except now I've just made the entire get together one big hostile place, where I'm now the asshole for ruining everyone's good time. Do you get it now? Do you get how throwing around the word racist doesn't do anything to help anybody? Being willing to sell out people of a different race because of gun ownership fearmongering is a pretty racist thing to do. Voting for racists pledging to enact racism is a racist thing to do, even if you didn’t vote for them specifically for the racism. It’s a dealbreaker for non racists. You need to make concessions somewhere Kwark, because in a Democracy, you can't afford to isolate every single person that doesn't conform exactly to your EXTREMELY strict rules about what makes them a racist or not. Because like I said. The Democrats are losers. They've lost to Donald Trump twice now, and even if the Democrats somehow manage to win in 2028, we still have 30 years at minimum of a Supreme Court that is stacked full of Republicans. At some point you need to step back and ask yourself if you're tired of your side losing, because I sure as hell am. I absolutely don’t need to make concessions, least of all to the lines of you. I don’t owe you shit. We’re not on the same side. Holy shit, its the Democrat party platform Oh please, you wish the Democrats were half as radical as I am.
It'd be an unironic improvement
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Northern Ireland23732 Posts
On February 05 2025 09:48 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2025 08:53 BlackJack wrote:On February 05 2025 08:09 KwarK wrote:On February 05 2025 07:40 Sadist wrote:
I just say democrats campaign on the belief for equal rights for all, implement it, and leave it at that. Getting bogged down on specifics is a sure fire way to alienate some people. Just say equal rights and implement the policies. Dont let Republicans try to control the narrative and make everything about trans issues or other issues. Equal rights includes all minority groups by default.
They literally couldn't get people to agree with the statement that black lives matter. That was apparently a bridge too far for America. And Democrats don’t even want to Make America Great Again? Do they hate America? Or we can not pretend these slogans are meat to be taken literally and there’s not an ideology attached to them. It's not at all comparable to MAGA. A better comparison to MAGA would be Build Back Better. Black lives matter is a response to the observation that issues that disproportionately impact black Americans, such as police brutality, high crime neighbourhoods, lack of access to education, lack of community resources etc. are treated as not important in a way that they would not be if they impacted white Americans. The conclusion is that these issues are not viewed as important because the people whose lives are impacted are not important. That police brutality against black Americans does not matter to the public because black Americans do not matter to public. It's a very short, very clear, very clean thesis. "You act like you don't care about us because you literally do not care about us". It's all packaged in a neat little bow. Their statement is also very clean, very concise, very neat. Black lives matter. That's it. We matter, please could society address the issues impacting our communities as if our lives matter. It doesn't mean voting a certain way, it doesn't have a policy platform, there's no party or political leader attached to it, it's not about that, it's completely incomparable to MAGA. It's literally just that they would like people to act as if black lives were important. That's it. It was too controversial and so instead we have trucks rolling coal with big "black smoke matters" decals.
Much of the opposition to BLM I’ve encountered absolutely reeks of Men’s Rights energy when it comes to feminism.
‘But what about us/x?’
Which may be totally legitimate, there may be a gap somewhere but you’re bitching that people who did the groundwork for their own specific issues aren’t doing your work for you.
It’ll also be totally wrong in many cases, although tbf not always deliberately.
‘Oh some white guy got shot why didn’t BLM say anything then?’ when it turns out that they very much did.
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On February 05 2025 10:12 Turbovolver wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2025 10:01 Magic Powers wrote:
Individual people are hopelessly lost in this chaos. They can't possibly figure out how to find the truth. Except you, right?
Except me, yes. You got me.
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On February 05 2025 10:18 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2025 09:48 KwarK wrote:On February 05 2025 08:53 BlackJack wrote:On February 05 2025 08:09 KwarK wrote:On February 05 2025 07:40 Sadist wrote:
I just say democrats campaign on the belief for equal rights for all, implement it, and leave it at that. Getting bogged down on specifics is a sure fire way to alienate some people. Just say equal rights and implement the policies. Dont let Republicans try to control the narrative and make everything about trans issues or other issues. Equal rights includes all minority groups by default.
They literally couldn't get people to agree with the statement that black lives matter. That was apparently a bridge too far for America. And Democrats don’t even want to Make America Great Again? Do they hate America? Or we can not pretend these slogans are meat to be taken literally and there’s not an ideology attached to them. It's not at all comparable to MAGA. A better comparison to MAGA would be Build Back Better. Black lives matter is a response to the observation that issues that disproportionately impact black Americans, such as police brutality, high crime neighbourhoods, lack of access to education, lack of community resources etc. are treated as not important in a way that they would not be if they impacted white Americans. The conclusion is that these issues are not viewed as important because the people whose lives are impacted are not important. That police brutality against black Americans does not matter to the public because black Americans do not matter to public. It's a very short, very clear, very clean thesis. "You act like you don't care about us because you literally do not care about us". It's all packaged in a neat little bow. Their statement is also very clean, very concise, very neat. Black lives matter. That's it. We matter, please could society address the issues impacting our communities as if our lives matter. It doesn't mean voting a certain way, it doesn't have a policy platform, there's no party or political leader attached to it, it's not about that, it's completely incomparable to MAGA. It's literally just that they would like people to act as if black lives were important. That's it. It was too controversial and so instead we have trucks rolling coal with big "black smoke matters" decals. Much of the opposition to BLM I’ve encountered absolutely reeks of Men’s Rights energy when it comes to feminism. ‘But what about us/x?’ Which may be totally legitimate, there may be a gap somewhere but you’re bitching that people who did the groundwork for their own specific issues aren’t doing your work for you. It’ll also be totally wrong in many cases, although tbf not always deliberately. ‘Oh some white guy got shot why didn’t BLM say anything then?’ when it turns out that they very much did.
Absolutely on point (as well as your previous comment). The opposition to BLM was entirely racist, there was no other point to it.
The trick racists play is that they brainwash apparent non-racists (useful idiots) with their racist ideas, by toning down their rhetoric so it can pass the bullshit detector from the useful idiots. All Lives Matter was an attempt to subvert BLM, not a sincere call for inclusion of white people who are also facing adversity. It was an exercise in virtue signalling towards a broad range of right-wingers, libertarians, conservatives etc. while also serving as a dog whistle for the definitive racists.
Behind the scenes the racists who were undermining BLM were completely open about their views. They strictly deny that black people face oppression to begin with, they blame black people themselves (and they also blame elected Democrats for "turning black neighborhoods into shitholes").
It's a whole fucking scheme. These are not exclusively capital R racists, but their methods run so deep that "little racists" so-to-speak join their ranks. One by one, a whole propaganda machine. Youtube was and still is infested by them.
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On February 05 2025 09:48 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2025 08:53 BlackJack wrote:On February 05 2025 08:09 KwarK wrote:On February 05 2025 07:40 Sadist wrote:
I just say democrats campaign on the belief for equal rights for all, implement it, and leave it at that. Getting bogged down on specifics is a sure fire way to alienate some people. Just say equal rights and implement the policies. Dont let Republicans try to control the narrative and make everything about trans issues or other issues. Equal rights includes all minority groups by default.
They literally couldn't get people to agree with the statement that black lives matter. That was apparently a bridge too far for America. And Democrats don’t even want to Make America Great Again? Do they hate America? Or we can not pretend these slogans are meat to be taken literally and there’s not an ideology attached to them. It's not at all comparable to MAGA. A better comparison to MAGA would be Build Back Better. Black lives matter is a response to the observation that issues that disproportionately impact black Americans, such as police brutality, high crime neighbourhoods, lack of access to education, lack of community resources etc. are treated as not important in a way that they would not be if they impacted white Americans. The conclusion is that these issues are not viewed as important because the people whose lives are impacted are not important. That police brutality against black Americans does not matter to the public because black Americans do not matter to public. It's a very short, very clear, very clean thesis. "You act like you don't care about us because you literally do not care about us". It's all packaged in a neat little bow. Their statement is also very clean, very concise, very neat. Black lives matter. That's it. We matter, please could society address the issues impacting our communities as if our lives matter. It doesn't mean voting a certain way, it doesn't have a policy platform, there's no party or political leader attached to it, it's not about that, it's completely incomparable to MAGA. It's literally just that they would like people to act as if black lives were important. That's it. It was too controversial and so instead we have trucks rolling coal with big "black smoke matters" decals.
Black Lives Matter was very popular until ACAB, abolish the police, defund the police, looting is a legitimate form of protest, enforcing the law is racist etc. became co-opted into it. You can sell the idea that BLM was completely distinct from anything else and it was just about people acknowledging that literally black lives matter but I doubt that passes the sniff test for most people.
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On February 05 2025 14:54 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2025 09:48 KwarK wrote:On February 05 2025 08:53 BlackJack wrote:On February 05 2025 08:09 KwarK wrote:On February 05 2025 07:40 Sadist wrote:
I just say democrats campaign on the belief for equal rights for all, implement it, and leave it at that. Getting bogged down on specifics is a sure fire way to alienate some people. Just say equal rights and implement the policies. Dont let Republicans try to control the narrative and make everything about trans issues or other issues. Equal rights includes all minority groups by default.
They literally couldn't get people to agree with the statement that black lives matter. That was apparently a bridge too far for America. And Democrats don’t even want to Make America Great Again? Do they hate America? Or we can not pretend these slogans are meat to be taken literally and there’s not an ideology attached to them. It's not at all comparable to MAGA. A better comparison to MAGA would be Build Back Better. Black lives matter is a response to the observation that issues that disproportionately impact black Americans, such as police brutality, high crime neighbourhoods, lack of access to education, lack of community resources etc. are treated as not important in a way that they would not be if they impacted white Americans. The conclusion is that these issues are not viewed as important because the people whose lives are impacted are not important. That police brutality against black Americans does not matter to the public because black Americans do not matter to public. It's a very short, very clear, very clean thesis. "You act like you don't care about us because you literally do not care about us". It's all packaged in a neat little bow. Their statement is also very clean, very concise, very neat. Black lives matter. That's it. We matter, please could society address the issues impacting our communities as if our lives matter. It doesn't mean voting a certain way, it doesn't have a policy platform, there's no party or political leader attached to it, it's not about that, it's completely incomparable to MAGA. It's literally just that they would like people to act as if black lives were important. That's it. It was too controversial and so instead we have trucks rolling coal with big "black smoke matters" decals. Black Lives Matter was very popular until ACAB, abolish the police, defund the police, looting is a legitimate form of protest, enforcing the law is racist etc. became co-opted into it. You can sell the idea that BLM was completely distinct from anything else and it was just about people acknowledging that literally black lives matter but I doubt that passes the sniff test for most people.
If you asked me what I thought BLM was about, I'd answer similarly to KwarK and be confused that you felt that anyone who supports BLM thinks looting is okay.
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On February 05 2025 17:54 EnDeR_ wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2025 14:54 BlackJack wrote:On February 05 2025 09:48 KwarK wrote:On February 05 2025 08:53 BlackJack wrote:On February 05 2025 08:09 KwarK wrote:On February 05 2025 07:40 Sadist wrote:
I just say democrats campaign on the belief for equal rights for all, implement it, and leave it at that. Getting bogged down on specifics is a sure fire way to alienate some people. Just say equal rights and implement the policies. Dont let Republicans try to control the narrative and make everything about trans issues or other issues. Equal rights includes all minority groups by default.
They literally couldn't get people to agree with the statement that black lives matter. That was apparently a bridge too far for America. And Democrats don’t even want to Make America Great Again? Do they hate America? Or we can not pretend these slogans are meat to be taken literally and there’s not an ideology attached to them. It's not at all comparable to MAGA. A better comparison to MAGA would be Build Back Better. Black lives matter is a response to the observation that issues that disproportionately impact black Americans, such as police brutality, high crime neighbourhoods, lack of access to education, lack of community resources etc. are treated as not important in a way that they would not be if they impacted white Americans. The conclusion is that these issues are not viewed as important because the people whose lives are impacted are not important. That police brutality against black Americans does not matter to the public because black Americans do not matter to public. It's a very short, very clear, very clean thesis. "You act like you don't care about us because you literally do not care about us". It's all packaged in a neat little bow. Their statement is also very clean, very concise, very neat. Black lives matter. That's it. We matter, please could society address the issues impacting our communities as if our lives matter. It doesn't mean voting a certain way, it doesn't have a policy platform, there's no party or political leader attached to it, it's not about that, it's completely incomparable to MAGA. It's literally just that they would like people to act as if black lives were important. That's it. It was too controversial and so instead we have trucks rolling coal with big "black smoke matters" decals. Black Lives Matter was very popular until ACAB, abolish the police, defund the police, looting is a legitimate form of protest, enforcing the law is racist etc. became co-opted into it. You can sell the idea that BLM was completely distinct from anything else and it was just about people acknowledging that literally black lives matter but I doubt that passes the sniff test for most people. If you asked me what I thought BLM was about, I'd answer similarly to KwarK and be confused that you felt that anyone who supports BLM thinks looting is okay.
https://www.fox32chicago.com/news/anything-they-wanted-to-take-they-can-take-blm-throws-support-behind-chicago-looters-after-60m-in-damages
CHICAGO - Black Lives Matter members in Chicago held a rally on Monday to support the more than 100 arrested last night following widespread looting and rioting that caused at least $60 million in property damage and saw 13 police officers injured, according to a report.
At least one organizer called the looting tantamount to "reparations."
“I don’t care if someone decides to loot a Gucci or a Macy’s or a Nike store, because that makes sure that person eats,” said Ariel Atkins, a BLM organizer, according to NBC Chicago. “That makes sure that person has clothes.”
“That is reparations,” Atkins continued. “Anything they wanted to take, they can take it because these businesses have insurance.”
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On February 05 2025 18:37 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2025 17:54 EnDeR_ wrote:On February 05 2025 14:54 BlackJack wrote:On February 05 2025 09:48 KwarK wrote:On February 05 2025 08:53 BlackJack wrote:On February 05 2025 08:09 KwarK wrote:On February 05 2025 07:40 Sadist wrote:
I just say democrats campaign on the belief for equal rights for all, implement it, and leave it at that. Getting bogged down on specifics is a sure fire way to alienate some people. Just say equal rights and implement the policies. Dont let Republicans try to control the narrative and make everything about trans issues or other issues. Equal rights includes all minority groups by default.
They literally couldn't get people to agree with the statement that black lives matter. That was apparently a bridge too far for America. And Democrats don’t even want to Make America Great Again? Do they hate America? Or we can not pretend these slogans are meat to be taken literally and there’s not an ideology attached to them. It's not at all comparable to MAGA. A better comparison to MAGA would be Build Back Better. Black lives matter is a response to the observation that issues that disproportionately impact black Americans, such as police brutality, high crime neighbourhoods, lack of access to education, lack of community resources etc. are treated as not important in a way that they would not be if they impacted white Americans. The conclusion is that these issues are not viewed as important because the people whose lives are impacted are not important. That police brutality against black Americans does not matter to the public because black Americans do not matter to public. It's a very short, very clear, very clean thesis. "You act like you don't care about us because you literally do not care about us". It's all packaged in a neat little bow. Their statement is also very clean, very concise, very neat. Black lives matter. That's it. We matter, please could society address the issues impacting our communities as if our lives matter. It doesn't mean voting a certain way, it doesn't have a policy platform, there's no party or political leader attached to it, it's not about that, it's completely incomparable to MAGA. It's literally just that they would like people to act as if black lives were important. That's it. It was too controversial and so instead we have trucks rolling coal with big "black smoke matters" decals. Black Lives Matter was very popular until ACAB, abolish the police, defund the police, looting is a legitimate form of protest, enforcing the law is racist etc. became co-opted into it. You can sell the idea that BLM was completely distinct from anything else and it was just about people acknowledging that literally black lives matter but I doubt that passes the sniff test for most people. If you asked me what I thought BLM was about, I'd answer similarly to KwarK and be confused that you felt that anyone who supports BLM thinks looting is okay. https://www.fox32chicago.com/news/anything-they-wanted-to-take-they-can-take-blm-throws-support-behind-chicago-looters-after-60m-in-damagesShow nested quote +CHICAGO - Black Lives Matter members in Chicago held a rally on Monday to support the more than 100 arrested last night following widespread looting and rioting that caused at least $60 million in property damage and saw 13 police officers injured, according to a report. Show nested quote + At least one organizer called the looting tantamount to "reparations."
“I don’t care if someone decides to loot a Gucci or a Macy’s or a Nike store, because that makes sure that person eats,” said Ariel Atkins, a BLM organizer, according to NBC Chicago. “That makes sure that person has clothes.”
“That is reparations,” Atkins continued. “Anything they wanted to take, they can take it because these businesses have insurance.”
BJ, I am certain that there are fuckwit organisers saying fuckwitty things within any movement that grows beyond a few thousand people. To prevent another immediate follow up, I understand that I said 'BLM supporters' in my post and a 'BLM organiser' is obviously part of that group and clearly you have found an example of a BLM supporter supporting looting. So I guess you win the argument.
Now, if you will allow me to rephrase my post:
If you asked me what I thought BLM was about, I'd answer similarly to KwarK and be confused that you felt that anyone* who supports BLM thinks looting is okay.
*Who is not a fuckwit.
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So the well document looting, property damage, and arson that occurred at many BLM protests were not emblematic of BLM. It just happened at BLM protests but not BLM. The ones doing it and condoning it might have been part of BLM but those were the fuckwits of BLM so they don't count.
I'm left wondering if you would be this charitable if something like that happened at a right-wing rally. If MAGA rallies led to buildings being burned and looting would you say that's not MAGA and those are just the fuckwits of MAGA? I'm very doubtful.
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Northern Ireland23732 Posts
On February 05 2025 12:53 Magic Powers wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2025 10:18 WombaT wrote:On February 05 2025 09:48 KwarK wrote:On February 05 2025 08:53 BlackJack wrote:On February 05 2025 08:09 KwarK wrote:On February 05 2025 07:40 Sadist wrote:
I just say democrats campaign on the belief for equal rights for all, implement it, and leave it at that. Getting bogged down on specifics is a sure fire way to alienate some people. Just say equal rights and implement the policies. Dont let Republicans try to control the narrative and make everything about trans issues or other issues. Equal rights includes all minority groups by default.
They literally couldn't get people to agree with the statement that black lives matter. That was apparently a bridge too far for America. And Democrats don’t even want to Make America Great Again? Do they hate America? Or we can not pretend these slogans are meat to be taken literally and there’s not an ideology attached to them. It's not at all comparable to MAGA. A better comparison to MAGA would be Build Back Better. Black lives matter is a response to the observation that issues that disproportionately impact black Americans, such as police brutality, high crime neighbourhoods, lack of access to education, lack of community resources etc. are treated as not important in a way that they would not be if they impacted white Americans. The conclusion is that these issues are not viewed as important because the people whose lives are impacted are not important. That police brutality against black Americans does not matter to the public because black Americans do not matter to public. It's a very short, very clear, very clean thesis. "You act like you don't care about us because you literally do not care about us". It's all packaged in a neat little bow. Their statement is also very clean, very concise, very neat. Black lives matter. That's it. We matter, please could society address the issues impacting our communities as if our lives matter. It doesn't mean voting a certain way, it doesn't have a policy platform, there's no party or political leader attached to it, it's not about that, it's completely incomparable to MAGA. It's literally just that they would like people to act as if black lives were important. That's it. It was too controversial and so instead we have trucks rolling coal with big "black smoke matters" decals. Much of the opposition to BLM I’ve encountered absolutely reeks of Men’s Rights energy when it comes to feminism. ‘But what about us/x?’ Which may be totally legitimate, there may be a gap somewhere but you’re bitching that people who did the groundwork for their own specific issues aren’t doing your work for you. It’ll also be totally wrong in many cases, although tbf not always deliberately. ‘Oh some white guy got shot why didn’t BLM say anything then?’ when it turns out that they very much did. Absolutely on point (as well as your previous comment). The opposition to BLM was entirely racist, there was no other point to it. The trick racists play is that they brainwash apparent non-racists (useful idiots) with their racist ideas, by toning down their rhetoric so it can pass the bullshit detector from the useful idiots. All Lives Matter was an attempt to subvert BLM, not a sincere call for inclusion of white people who are also facing adversity. It was an exercise in virtue signalling towards a broad range of right-wingers, libertarians, conservatives etc. while also serving as a dog whistle for the definitive racists. Behind the scenes the racists who were undermining BLM were completely open about their views. They strictly deny that black people face oppression to begin with, they blame black people themselves (and they also blame elected Democrats for "turning black neighborhoods into shitholes"). It's a whole fucking scheme. These are not exclusively capital R racists, but their methods run so deep that "little racists" so-to-speak join their ranks. One by one, a whole propaganda machine. Youtube was and still is infested by them.
Boom goes the dynamite.
For fuck’s sake some bloke kneeling at a football match was too much for some sensibilities. The yardstick of what people’s ’real problem with BLM…’ was just kept shifting.
It’s the sheer amount of time and energy put into it that was quite indicative of motivation more widely for me.
‘I’m not a racist but I just spent 7 hours deep diving on black-on-black crime stats so I can lecture you on how BLM is wrong.’
Versus, ‘hey sure there’s complexity, but yeah yanno I fundamentally don’t have a problem with the idea of police not unlawfully killing black folks’ and getting on with one’s day
No, I don’t mean don’t discuss political issues of the day, but how one does it can be really revealing.
Useful idiots really, really need a better bullshit filter and to update their racist recognition abilities from the current level of ‘if this person isn’t currently decked out in Klan regalia they’re probably not a racist.’
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On February 05 2025 19:38 BlackJack wrote:
So the well document looting, property damage, and arson that occurred at many BLM protests were not emblematic of BLM. It just happened at BLM protests but not BLM. The ones doing it and condoning it might have been part of BLM but those were the fuckwits of BLM so they don't count.
I'm left wondering if you would be this charitable if something like that happened at a right-wing rally. If MAGA rallies led to buildings being burned and looting would you say that's not MAGA and those are just the fuckwits of MAGA? I'm very doubtful.
I think it depends on the cause that's being fought for, the truth of the matter, and if the groups went straight for violence or if they tried peacefully protesting first. BLM started by kneeling and talking and taking countless other non-violent measures, to spread the word against systemic discrimination and unjust killings of black people by cops. Those were met with derision and scorn. Then came the BLM marches and protests, most of which were completely peaceful. That's a natural escalation, for a cause that I think is serious and worthy. What I consider valuable might be different than what a MAGA supporter thinks is valuable, of course, but at least my issue comports with reality. Even setting aside the fact that the ultimate MAGA rally - when they stormed the Capitol and tried to overthrow the government - was far more violent and dangerous than anything BLM had ever done, the MAGA cult has been brainwashed by conspiracy theories for years (Obama is an illegal Muslim, every problem can be blamed on immigrants and trans people, Biden stole the 2020 election, etc.). At some point, facts need to be taken into consideration, and so even if I were a third-party bystander, completely apathetic towards both the BLM cause and the MAGA cause, I ought to still appreciate only the former's existence, because it warrants existing in the first place, unlike the latter.
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Norway28553 Posts
On February 05 2025 09:22 Sadist wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2025 08:09 KwarK wrote:On February 05 2025 07:40 Sadist wrote:
I just say democrats campaign on the belief for equal rights for all, implement it, and leave it at that. Getting bogged down on specifics is a sure fire way to alienate some people. Just say equal rights and implement the policies. Dont let Republicans try to control the narrative and make everything about trans issues or other issues. Equal rights includes all minority groups by default.
They literally couldn't get people to agree with the statement that black lives matter. That was apparently a bridge too far for America. Black lives matter, its too specific. Need to be more generic. It also couldve used a too on the end sadly. Not the greatest of slogans unfortunately.
Honestly never thought about this but adding 'too' would've been great. Takes the entire wind out of the 'all lives matter' counter, because the statement already includes everyone else, while also doing a better job highlighting that they currently matter less than the lives of others.
A bit late to the racism party but I agree with the group saying that calling out the 'casual/unconscious' racists as racists tends to be counter-productive. You can call out specific instances of behavior as racist/racist-adjecent without describing the person in question as racist and maybe it'll result in some positive introspection, but overall, be careful.
The reason is that racist isn't all that strictly defined, it has very different connotations to different people, where what people agree with is that 'it's bad' and 'it's not what I'm doing'. Basically - to some people it means 'hates black people for being black', not 'uses language with some inherent meaning they were unaware of' or 'thinks immigrants from different cultures can be difficult to integrate into our society', or even 'thinks Islam is not compatible with western values'. All of these latter three will by some and can by some definitions be argued to be some degree of racist - but all three groups will generally very much object to the idea that they're racist, because they sure as hell don't hate black people for being black, which is how they understand the phrase. I have an acquaintance who even fits the less narrow definitions - thinking that black people are biologically less intelligent than white (and asian) people - which most people will agree is clearly racist, but even he takes great offense at being described as one, because he doesn't dislike black people at all and doesn't want to discriminate against them, he just thinks they're on average less smart. Tbh in his case I don't mind people calling him out but in general, there are very few words that are as efficient at pushing people away from you as racist, is. I tend to have these discussions with my pupils and people really aren't in agreement.
That said: I think there's one element that is overlooked when examining Kamala's loss to Trump. 2024 was an election year in a lot of countries. The incumbent party did terribly almost everywhere. Hardly matters how they aligned politically, too, it's just that people experience the world as worse than it was 4 years ago and the party in power gets the blame. I think Harris' loss of votes compared to Biden's performance in 2020 is actually lower than the average incumbent party worldwide. In Norway, we had no election, but our governing parties got 26.5% and 13.5% of the vote in 2021. The last polls from january 2025 put them at 19% and 6.2% respectively, meaning that 33% of their 2021 voters were now looking elsewhere. And honestly while I'm not really fond of our current government I don't think they're worse than average in terms of competence.
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On February 05 2025 19:38 BlackJack wrote:
So the well document looting, property damage, and arson that occurred at many BLM protests were not emblematic of BLM. It just happened at BLM protests but not BLM. The ones doing it and condoning it might have been part of BLM but those were the fuckwits of BLM so they don't count.
I'm left wondering if you would be this charitable if something like that happened at a right-wing rally. If MAGA rallies led to buildings being burned and looting would you say that's not MAGA and those are just the fuckwits of MAGA? I'm very doubtful.
I've been here before. Do you fundamentally disagree with the 'spirit' of the statement I posted?
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EPT
