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United States42490 Posts
On February 05 2025 06:39 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2025 06:37 KwarK wrote:On February 05 2025 06:35 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 05 2025 06:32 RenSC2 wrote:On February 05 2025 06:15 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 05 2025 06:10 RenSC2 wrote:On February 05 2025 05:33 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 05 2025 05:26 Gorsameth wrote:On February 05 2025 05:24 Vindicare605 wrote:
I wonder if Democarts are starting to get it yet. That they fucked up THIS badly by letting all of this happen.
Everything that Trump is doing is straight out of Project 2025. We've known about Project 2025 for years, and yet despite knowing what the Republicans wanted to do, they ran Joe Biden again when he was so old and unfit that he couldn't even make it all the way through the election.
I hope they're proud of themselves. I hope the Democratic Party leadership is so happy that good thing they stuck to seniority and making sure to put "electable candidates" first, that they are happy watching everything go to complete hell, because at least they stuck to their precious gameplan. /barf I tend to blame voters for who they vote for, not the opposition. Maybe its a weird 'non-American' thing. And you think blaming Trump voters for getting exactly what they want is going to do anything? This is like blaming a 5 year old for pooping in the toy aisle at Walmart. You're not supposed to blame the 5 year old you're supposed to blame the parent who is supposed to prevent it from happening. The Democrats don't represent me, they never have. I'm not a member of their party because I can't stand how they keep trying to toe this line of being socially liberal but only when it's convenient, and being for workers' rights but only when big business says its ok. The only fucking purpose they serve is to keep the Republicans out of power, or at the very least to hold enough power in Congress to stop them from going completely crazy unchecked. They don't have any of it now. They lost the Executive, both branches of Congress and we have a Supreme Court stacked with Conservatives for the next 30 years. When the fuck am I supposed to get mad at the Democrats? Never? They've managed to lose so badly that we are staring down a government that is going to cause such fucking chaos that it will take 100 years to fix if we ever do manage to fix it. They are a failure of a political party and they need to fucking hear it. Because if they are allowed to keep running the same plays over and over again, this is NEVER going to get any better. In your analogy, you have the Democrats in the role of the parent and the Republicans in the role of the 5 year old shitting in the aisle. Why do you think the Democrats are the parent of the Republicans? The Democrats are not the parents, they are peers. The Democrats are another 5 year old classmate of the Republicans. They may not be great, but they aren't shitting in the aisles and they're not responsible for their peer doing the shitting. So why are you yelling at a kid because they didn't stop another kid from shitting in the aisle? The Democrats are not the parents, the voters are. The Republican voters birthed this aisle shitting kid and let that kid get away with it. Hell, they seem to think it's funny and encourage it. So get fucking mad at the parents that keep encouraging their kid to shit in the aisle. Of course, you can stand on the sideline, not have kids, and claim your moral superiority. However, someone's fucking kid is going to be running this country, so you should probably help raise that kid to be better instead. Usually that doesn't mean ignoring your kid for not being good enough, it means giving them guidance. I'm all for that. Tell the Democrats what you want and (here's where the analogy breaks down) pick the best primary candidates to put up against the aisle shitting kid. You had every right to vote Jason Palmer, Marianne Williamson, or Dean Phillips along with every other Democrat voter. Instead, they voted for Biden. Other potential major candidates were too chicken shit to run against him. If you think Biden was the wrong kid to put forward, then your problem is with the voter and the other candidates too scared to run. Still, the main fault is with the people who have encouraged and enabled the Republicans and those people are the Republican Voters. Don't ever forget that. Your argument falls apart when the Democrats make it a point to either rig the primary or prevent us from having an open primary altogether. Oh yea did you forget that the last time we actually had a full primary was 2016? If the Democrats had had their way, the next time we would have had actually had an open primary would have been in 2032. You don't think knowing that STILL pisses me off? Oh you can be sure that it does. What are you even talking about? 16.6 million people voted in the Democratic primary in 2024. You had the right to vote in it. Did you? There were 4 candidates and Biden got about 14.5 million of those votes, so he won. That's what a primary is. The Republicans also had a primary. They had 10+ candidates, 22.3 million votes cast and 17 million went to Trump. That was also a primary. The voters decided. You calling it rigged is just right wing propaganda. You believed the lies. The 2016 super delegates never mattered. Clinton beat Sanders by millions of votes 16.9 to 13.2 million. The 2020 election was even a bigger landslide for Biden at 19 million to Sander's 9.7 million. Those are all primaries. They were open and the person with the most votes won in every case. Quit believing the lies. You're not being serious. Not a single serious candidate ran in the primary in 2024 because Joe Biden was running as an incumbent President. You know and I know that the 2024 primary wasn't a serious primary and the fact the election results were as one sided as they were is clear evidence of that. The rigged primary I'm talking about is 2016's primary. You care to review how that one went again? It literally wasn’t rigged, Hillary beat Bernie without counting superdelegates. And how would it had gone if the Superdelegates hadn't all pledged their support for Hillary Clinton at the start of the fucking primary? Easy to see how someone can be swayed into voting for the candidate that is being touted as the only "legitimate" candidate in the party when all of the Superdelegates are pledged to her before the primary is even over.
So there were two different ways of counting, the rigged way which we just the rules of the contest, and the unrigged way which is what you think the rules should have been. Under both methods she won which you take to mean that it was rigged.
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On February 05 2025 06:39 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2025 06:37 KwarK wrote:On February 05 2025 06:35 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 05 2025 06:32 RenSC2 wrote:On February 05 2025 06:15 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 05 2025 06:10 RenSC2 wrote:On February 05 2025 05:33 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 05 2025 05:26 Gorsameth wrote:On February 05 2025 05:24 Vindicare605 wrote:
I wonder if Democarts are starting to get it yet. That they fucked up THIS badly by letting all of this happen.
Everything that Trump is doing is straight out of Project 2025. We've known about Project 2025 for years, and yet despite knowing what the Republicans wanted to do, they ran Joe Biden again when he was so old and unfit that he couldn't even make it all the way through the election.
I hope they're proud of themselves. I hope the Democratic Party leadership is so happy that good thing they stuck to seniority and making sure to put "electable candidates" first, that they are happy watching everything go to complete hell, because at least they stuck to their precious gameplan. /barf I tend to blame voters for who they vote for, not the opposition. Maybe its a weird 'non-American' thing. And you think blaming Trump voters for getting exactly what they want is going to do anything? This is like blaming a 5 year old for pooping in the toy aisle at Walmart. You're not supposed to blame the 5 year old you're supposed to blame the parent who is supposed to prevent it from happening. The Democrats don't represent me, they never have. I'm not a member of their party because I can't stand how they keep trying to toe this line of being socially liberal but only when it's convenient, and being for workers' rights but only when big business says its ok. The only fucking purpose they serve is to keep the Republicans out of power, or at the very least to hold enough power in Congress to stop them from going completely crazy unchecked. They don't have any of it now. They lost the Executive, both branches of Congress and we have a Supreme Court stacked with Conservatives for the next 30 years. When the fuck am I supposed to get mad at the Democrats? Never? They've managed to lose so badly that we are staring down a government that is going to cause such fucking chaos that it will take 100 years to fix if we ever do manage to fix it. They are a failure of a political party and they need to fucking hear it. Because if they are allowed to keep running the same plays over and over again, this is NEVER going to get any better. In your analogy, you have the Democrats in the role of the parent and the Republicans in the role of the 5 year old shitting in the aisle. Why do you think the Democrats are the parent of the Republicans? The Democrats are not the parents, they are peers. The Democrats are another 5 year old classmate of the Republicans. They may not be great, but they aren't shitting in the aisles and they're not responsible for their peer doing the shitting. So why are you yelling at a kid because they didn't stop another kid from shitting in the aisle? The Democrats are not the parents, the voters are. The Republican voters birthed this aisle shitting kid and let that kid get away with it. Hell, they seem to think it's funny and encourage it. So get fucking mad at the parents that keep encouraging their kid to shit in the aisle. Of course, you can stand on the sideline, not have kids, and claim your moral superiority. However, someone's fucking kid is going to be running this country, so you should probably help raise that kid to be better instead. Usually that doesn't mean ignoring your kid for not being good enough, it means giving them guidance. I'm all for that. Tell the Democrats what you want and (here's where the analogy breaks down) pick the best primary candidates to put up against the aisle shitting kid. You had every right to vote Jason Palmer, Marianne Williamson, or Dean Phillips along with every other Democrat voter. Instead, they voted for Biden. Other potential major candidates were too chicken shit to run against him. If you think Biden was the wrong kid to put forward, then your problem is with the voter and the other candidates too scared to run. Still, the main fault is with the people who have encouraged and enabled the Republicans and those people are the Republican Voters. Don't ever forget that. Your argument falls apart when the Democrats make it a point to either rig the primary or prevent us from having an open primary altogether. Oh yea did you forget that the last time we actually had a full primary was 2016? If the Democrats had had their way, the next time we would have had actually had an open primary would have been in 2032. You don't think knowing that STILL pisses me off? Oh you can be sure that it does. What are you even talking about? 16.6 million people voted in the Democratic primary in 2024. You had the right to vote in it. Did you? There were 4 candidates and Biden got about 14.5 million of those votes, so he won. That's what a primary is. The Republicans also had a primary. They had 10+ candidates, 22.3 million votes cast and 17 million went to Trump. That was also a primary. The voters decided. You calling it rigged is just right wing propaganda. You believed the lies. The 2016 super delegates never mattered. Clinton beat Sanders by millions of votes 16.9 to 13.2 million. The 2020 election was even a bigger landslide for Biden at 19 million to Sander's 9.7 million. Those are all primaries. They were open and the person with the most votes won in every case. Quit believing the lies. You're not being serious. Not a single serious candidate ran in the primary in 2024 because Joe Biden was running as an incumbent President. You know and I know that the 2024 primary wasn't a serious primary and the fact the election results were as one sided as they were is clear evidence of that. The rigged primary I'm talking about is 2016's primary. You care to review how that one went again? It literally wasn’t rigged, Hillary beat Bernie without counting superdelegates. And how would it had gone if the Superdelegates hadn't all pledged their support for Hillary Clinton at the start of the fucking primary? Easy to see how someone can be swayed into voting for the candidate that is being touted as the only "legitimate" candidate in the party when all of the Superdelegates are pledged to her before the primary is even over.
Just so you know they are exploiting your emotion to drag you into a pointless argument and distract from the legitimate points you raised that I articulated thusly. + Show Spoiler +On February 05 2025 06:28 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 05 2025 05:57 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2025 05:52 Gorsameth wrote:On February 05 2025 05:50 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 05 2025 05:48 Gorsameth wrote:On February 05 2025 05:33 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 05 2025 05:26 Gorsameth wrote:On February 05 2025 05:24 Vindicare605 wrote:
I wonder if Democarts are starting to get it yet. That they fucked up THIS badly by letting all of this happen.
Everything that Trump is doing is straight out of Project 2025. We've known about Project 2025 for years, and yet despite knowing what the Republicans wanted to do, they ran Joe Biden again when he was so old and unfit that he couldn't even make it all the way through the election.
I hope they're proud of themselves. I hope the Democratic Party leadership is so happy that good thing they stuck to seniority and making sure to put "electable candidates" first, that they are happy watching everything go to complete hell, because at least they stuck to their precious gameplan. /barf I tend to blame voters for who they vote for, not the opposition. Maybe its a weird 'non-American' thing. And you think blaming Trump voters for getting exactly what they want is going to do anything? This is like blaming a 5 year old for pooping in the toy aisle at Walmart. You're not supposed to blame the 5 year old you're supposed to blame the parent who is supposed to prevent it from happening. The Democrats don't represent me, they never have. I'm not a member of their party because I can't stand how they keep trying to toe this line of being socially liberal but only when it's convenient, and being for workers' rights but only when big business says its ok. The only fucking purpose they serve is to keep the Republicans out of power, or at the very least to hold enough power in Congress to stop them from going completely crazy unchecked. They don't have any of it now. They lost the Executive, both branches of Congress and we have a Supreme Court stacked with Conservatives for the next 30 years. When the fuck am I supposed to get mad at the Democrats? Never? They've managed to lose so badly that we are staring down a government that is going to cause such fucking chaos that it will take 100 years to fix if we ever do manage to fix it. They are a failure of a political party and they need to fucking hear it. Because if they are allowed to keep running the same plays over and over again, this is NEVER going to get any better. + Show Spoiler +Glad we agree the average American is best compared to a 5year old shitting in supermarkets...
Maybe a more fruitful discussion would be had about how Americans became 5 year olds shitting in super market aisles rather then the campaign that Democrats ran, which I feel very confident in saying absolutely did not matter. + Show Spoiler +No amount of difference message or strategy was going to keep Republicans from the election because the voters are to busy shitting in Walmart to actually listen to that message.
Grocery prices are up because of global inflation problems so lets vote for the other guy. That is the beginning and end for the 'average voter'. If you don't think Democrats have been instrumental in this becoming the norm you haven't been paying attention. Ofc they are, both sides are. Republicans just run on 'stupid people will vote for us more often' a bit harder. But that wasn't the argument being made, the person I was talking to was blaming the election campaign. Of course Democrats trying to Weekend at Bernie's Biden across the finish line hurt them unnecessarily and was a catastrophic error completely owned by Democrats alone. Same goes for the Pied Piper strategy. Basically the two worst political strategy decisions in our lifetimes that were exclusively controlled by the Democrat party and gave us Trump. On February 05 2025 06:10 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2025 06:04 KwarK wrote:On February 05 2025 05:57 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 05 2025 05:50 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 05 2025 05:48 Gorsameth wrote:On February 05 2025 05:33 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 05 2025 05:26 Gorsameth wrote:On February 05 2025 05:24 Vindicare605 wrote:
I wonder if Democarts are starting to get it yet. That they fucked up THIS badly by letting all of this happen.
Everything that Trump is doing is straight out of Project 2025. We've known about Project 2025 for years, and yet despite knowing what the Republicans wanted to do, they ran Joe Biden again when he was so old and unfit that he couldn't even make it all the way through the election.
I hope they're proud of themselves. I hope the Democratic Party leadership is so happy that good thing they stuck to seniority and making sure to put "electable candidates" first, that they are happy watching everything go to complete hell, because at least they stuck to their precious gameplan. /barf I tend to blame voters for who they vote for, not the opposition. Maybe its a weird 'non-American' thing. And you think blaming Trump voters for getting exactly what they want is going to do anything? This is like blaming a 5 year old for pooping in the toy aisle at Walmart. You're not supposed to blame the 5 year old you're supposed to blame the parent who is supposed to prevent it from happening. The Democrats don't represent me, they never have. I'm not a member of their party because I can't stand how they keep trying to toe this line of being socially liberal but only when it's convenient, and being for workers' rights but only when big business says its ok. The only fucking purpose they serve is to keep the Republicans out of power, or at the very least to hold enough power in Congress to stop them from going completely crazy unchecked. They don't have any of it now. They lost the Executive, both branches of Congress and we have a Supreme Court stacked with Conservatives for the next 30 years. When the fuck am I supposed to get mad at the Democrats? Never? They've managed to lose so badly that we are staring down a government that is going to cause such fucking chaos that it will take 100 years to fix if we ever do manage to fix it. They are a failure of a political party and they need to fucking hear it. Because if they are allowed to keep running the same plays over and over again, this is NEVER going to get any better. + Show Spoiler +Glad we agree the average American is best compared to a 5year old shitting in supermarkets...
Maybe a more fruitful discussion would be had about how Americans became 5 year olds shitting in super market aisles rather then the campaign that Democrats ran, which I feel very confident in saying absolutely did not matter. + Show Spoiler +No amount of difference message or strategy was going to keep Republicans from the election because the voters are to busy shitting in Walmart to actually listen to that message.
Grocery prices are up because of global inflation problems so lets vote for the other guy. That is the beginning and end for the 'average voter'. If you don't think Democrats have been instrumental in this becoming the norm you haven't been paying attention. 100%. Do you have any idea how many of my Republican friends online only feel comfortable talking politics with me because I'll actually sit down and talk policy with them? Do you know what would happen if I did nothing but call them bigots and racists? The discussion ends and they stop talking to me. Their positions don't change, only now they aren't even hearing my ideas anymore. That's what the Democrats have done. They've managed to get half of the country to completely tune out to everything they say. Not that they have much good to say anyway which I can say as a Liberal that listens to what they say. They spent the entire election doing nothing but attacking Trump and everyone allied with Trump. They conveniently did nothing to show how they would be any better for the country than Trump was, they just kept hammering away about Trump Trump Trump when that has proven to not work when Hillary tried it in 2016 and lost. The most popular Democrats we have in this country are the ones that stay focused on issues and that communicate those issues clearly and consistently. The number of Democrats that do this on a regular basis are very few, and all of them are hated by the establishment Democrats that run the party. This didn't happen overnight and it didn't start with Trump. The Democrats have been edging towards this inevitable outcome for a long time, because it takes them losing to finally see some motivation for improving their message and their messengers. The point you’re making here is that it doesn’t matter how racist the white nationalists get, it’s important to never call them racist. Just sit down with them like rational people and discuss just how many brown people should be sent to the camps. The democrats made the mistake of calling the white nationalists racist. You’re absolutely right. They thought voters would understand that they shouldn’t be voting for the racists but they didn’t have the pulse of the American public at all. I've been a driving voice behind the narrative that the US is way more racist than Democrats or Republicans can recognize for years here. I still reject this. It's not like it was a Reagan era blowout. Just being marginally less shitty and recognizing how much people hated health insurance CEO's would have been plenty to put them over the top even after all their catastrophic unforced errors. EDIT: "Be more racist" has been the conclusion Democrats have drawn from every loss since the 90's I would hope you two engage with the refined version of Vind's argument that I'm presenting rather than exploit the openings he gave you to rest on your old talking points. Clearly the bipartisan appeal Democrats needed to endorse for the election was going after healthcare insurance CEOs and their business models of denying people healthcare they've already paid for. Better for us as a country and more effective than cranking up the racism. EDIT: lmao, of course you wont. Why would I expect otherwise?
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On February 05 2025 06:35 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2025 06:33 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:It's so surreal seeing the U.S. Department of Education's Twitter instantly change from being pro-education to anti-education, the moment that Trump took office. It looks almost as if the account was hacked, with the majority of posts being about "school choice" and "eliminating DEI" and other topics that I wish were just bad jokes. The Biden administration's second-to-last post, on January 19th, reminds us that it's illegal to discriminate based on race, sex, gender, disability, and age ( https://x.com/usedgov/status/1881003735792386211 ). The Biden administration's last post, on the morning of January 20th (MLK Jr. Day), reminds us that "Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. was committed to ensuring equal opportunity, especially in education" ( https://x.com/usedgov/status/1881303215762788862 ). And then Donald Trump became president, with the Trump administration's first post, on January 23rd, letting us know that they are trying to remove any emphasis on diversity, equity, or inclusion ( https://x.com/usedgov/status/1882557001525276887 ). After that, the majority of posts are about destroying public education and occasionally promoting homeschooling, private schooling, and charter schooling (one of many posts: https://x.com/usedgov/status/1884318078181179551 ). It's unsurprising, since Trump promised to do this, but it's still insane. Bright side, you shouldn't have to deal with Department of Education tweets for long. Trump administration drafting executive order to initiate Department of Education’s elimination
Yeah :/ And like everything else, the Republican-controlled states will get hit the hardest, because they tend to rely the most on federal aid and national support. The blue states that value education won't be screwed quite as hard as the red states that don't; New Jersey, for example, has a pretty decent state department of education and a pretty decent teacher's union, so our families should be a little safer than those in, say, Mississippi. But it's still a huge blow to the country.
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On February 05 2025 06:36 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2025 06:29 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 05 2025 06:25 KwarK wrote:On February 05 2025 06:24 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 05 2025 06:18 KwarK wrote:On February 05 2025 06:12 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 05 2025 06:04 KwarK wrote:On February 05 2025 05:57 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 05 2025 05:50 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 05 2025 05:48 Gorsameth wrote:[quote] + Show Spoiler +Glad we agree the average American is best compared to a 5year old shitting in supermarkets...
Maybe a more fruitful discussion would be had about how Americans became 5 year olds shitting in super market aisles rather then the campaign that Democrats ran, which I feel very confident in saying absolutely did not matter. + Show Spoiler +No amount of difference message or strategy was going to keep Republicans from the election because the voters are to busy shitting in Walmart to actually listen to that message.
Grocery prices are up because of global inflation problems so lets vote for the other guy. That is the beginning and end for the 'average voter'. If you don't think Democrats have been instrumental in this becoming the norm you haven't been paying attention. 100%. Do you have any idea how many of my Republican friends online only feel comfortable talking politics with me because I'll actually sit down and talk policy with them? Do you know what would happen if I did nothing but call them bigots and racists? The discussion ends and they stop talking to me. Their positions don't change, only now they aren't even hearing my ideas anymore. That's what the Democrats have done. They've managed to get half of the country to completely tune out to everything they say. Not that they have much good to say anyway which I can say as a Liberal that listens to what they say. They spent the entire election doing nothing but attacking Trump and everyone allied with Trump. They conveniently did nothing to show how they would be any better for the country than Trump was, they just kept hammering away about Trump Trump Trump when that has proven to not work when Hillary tried it in 2016 and lost. The most popular Democrats we have in this country are the ones that stay focused on issues and that communicate those issues clearly and consistently. The number of Democrats that do this on a regular basis are very few, and all of them are hated by the establishment Democrats that run the party. This didn't happen overnight and it didn't start with Trump. The Democrats have been edging towards this inevitable outcome for a long time, because it takes them losing to finally see some motivation for improving their message and their messengers. The point you’re making here is that it doesn’t matter how racist the white nationalists get, it’s important to never call them racist. Just sit down with them like rational people and discuss just how many brown people should be sent to the camps. The democrats made the mistake of calling the white nationalists racist. You’re absolutely right. They thought voters would understand that they shouldn’t be voting for the racists but they didn’t have the pulse of the American public at all. No Kwark, the point is that there are millions of every day normal rational people who look at the two parties as equally bad. The number of people who are actually happy about what Trump is doing with Immigration and Tarrifs are low compared to the number of Americans who voted for him just because they felt like something had to change when the Democrats were in power. You need to understand that there are Americans who vote for Republicans just because and I mean JUST because they think the Democrats are trying to take their guns away. I'm not even kidding, there are millions of Americans that do this. The Republicans have managed to sway the public into arguing over wedge issues that most Americans don't actually care about too much and then have dragged the Democrats into enough of these wedge issue arguments that most Americans just tune out of politics altogether, and every time they pop back up to listen and they see Joe Biden speaking looking like he's struggling to even keep his eyes open, they start to wonder if maybe the Republicans have a point. You need to actually look around, talk to Republicans, hear why they hate Democrats so much, hear why they are willing to vote for people they KNOW are terrible just because they hate Democrats so much. You need to understand that Democrats are in BIG BIG trouble. You don't need to agree with Republicans on everything, but you need to be willing to see that the Democrats need to change because if the Democrats keep getting told that they are doing everything right and they keep losing, then nothing is ever going to get any better. That's literally not what you said. You said that the Democrats can't simply state that the Republicans are proposing racist policies and trust the people to vote against racism, which is right, but you said it from a stance of pro-racism. Your objection was that they were calling out racists and you were proud that you personally never do that. The Democrats weren't wrong that the Republicans are being super fucking racist, they were wrong to think that the people would care. You know what I would do instead? Since I can't get you to understand why throwing the word Racist around gets you negative points with voters, let me tell you what I would do instead. I would propose alternative policy. I would simply go in front of congress, and I would introduce an alternative bill that deals with whatever issue the Republicans are proposing and I would do it in a way that isn't racist as fuck. Instead of focusing everything on illegal immigrants I would introduce bills to punish companies for hiring illegal immigrants, I would introduce new taxes on companies that outsource jobs like Bernie wants to do. I would take the issue and I would spin towards something I wanted done, because at the end of the day, the American public most of all just wants to see things getting done. But when all you do all day is stand at the podium and call people names, that just makes it look like you're wasting everyone's time and more importantly everyone's money. Throwing the word racist around gets you negative points with racists. What you're apparently incapable of understanding is that you're not meant to be racist. It's a bad thing. That's why I'm blaming the American people for being racist and saying that people attacking the democrat platform for being a little racist are missing the point. No Kwark it doesn't. There are dozens of people I talk to, family members I talk to, that are not racist people, that get fed up of being called racist because they support a policy that Republicans support. I never understood how they could possibly feel that way until I found myself being called a racist and a bigot because I hated a movie I wasn't supposed to hate. That's when I realized that all of this name calling and personal attacking from the left had gone WAY too far. When people start catching strays for shit they have nothing to do with, it doesn't make them sit back and start self reflecting of whether or not they're really a racist or not, it causes them to look for whoever hit them and hit them back. If they get called racist for supporting racist policies then I think they might be racists. The fact that they’re not reflecting on why they’re being called racists is a personal failing of theirs, not proof that they’re the furthest thing from a racist.
You know Kwark, you can keep calling people racist all you want, you're just going to keep making things worse for everybody.
It doesn't work, and yet you want to keep doing it anyway.
No wonder you don't think the Democrats need to change anything. Doesn't matter if it doesn't work, as long as it makes you feel good right?
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On February 05 2025 06:35 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2025 06:33 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:It's so surreal seeing the U.S. Department of Education's Twitter instantly change from being pro-education to anti-education, the moment that Trump took office. It looks almost as if the account was hacked, with the majority of posts being about "school choice" and "eliminating DEI" and other topics that I wish were just bad jokes. The Biden administration's second-to-last post, on January 19th, reminds us that it's illegal to discriminate based on race, sex, gender, disability, and age ( https://x.com/usedgov/status/1881003735792386211 ). The Biden administration's last post, on the morning of January 20th (MLK Jr. Day), reminds us that "Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. was committed to ensuring equal opportunity, especially in education" ( https://x.com/usedgov/status/1881303215762788862 ). And then Donald Trump became president, with the Trump administration's first post, on January 23rd, letting us know that they are trying to remove any emphasis on diversity, equity, or inclusion ( https://x.com/usedgov/status/1882557001525276887 ). After that, the majority of posts are about destroying public education and occasionally promoting homeschooling, private schooling, and charter schooling (one of many posts: https://x.com/usedgov/status/1884318078181179551 ). It's unsurprising, since Trump promised to do this, but it's still insane. Bright side, you shouldn't have to deal with Department of Education tweets for long. Trump administration drafting executive order to initiate Department of Education’s elimination
So, i guess you guys will really get all the horrible and idiotic things Trump said he would do. I guess this is nice, as it gives the voters exactly what they asked for. I hope they will be smart enough to blame themselves and their choice, but i doubt it.
Still kinda surreal and horrific how quickly stuff can happen. I sorta with the same speed would ever be achieved with positive changes, but that seems to be utterly impossible.
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On February 05 2025 06:45 Simberto wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2025 06:35 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 05 2025 06:33 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:It's so surreal seeing the U.S. Department of Education's Twitter instantly change from being pro-education to anti-education, the moment that Trump took office. It looks almost as if the account was hacked, with the majority of posts being about "school choice" and "eliminating DEI" and other topics that I wish were just bad jokes. The Biden administration's second-to-last post, on January 19th, reminds us that it's illegal to discriminate based on race, sex, gender, disability, and age ( https://x.com/usedgov/status/1881003735792386211 ). The Biden administration's last post, on the morning of January 20th (MLK Jr. Day), reminds us that "Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. was committed to ensuring equal opportunity, especially in education" ( https://x.com/usedgov/status/1881303215762788862 ). And then Donald Trump became president, with the Trump administration's first post, on January 23rd, letting us know that they are trying to remove any emphasis on diversity, equity, or inclusion ( https://x.com/usedgov/status/1882557001525276887 ). After that, the majority of posts are about destroying public education and occasionally promoting homeschooling, private schooling, and charter schooling (one of many posts: https://x.com/usedgov/status/1884318078181179551 ). It's unsurprising, since Trump promised to do this, but it's still insane. Bright side, you shouldn't have to deal with Department of Education tweets for long. Trump administration drafting executive order to initiate Department of Education’s elimination So, i guess you guys will really get all the horrible and idiotic things Trump said he would do. I guess this is nice, as it gives the voters exactly what they asked for. I hope they will be smart enough to blame themselves and their choice, but i doubt it. Still kinda surreal and horrific how quickly stuff can happen. I sorta with the same speed would ever be achieved with positive changes, but that seems to be utterly impossible.
Well when there's no one left or willing to check the power of the President I guess he's able to do whatever he wants.
Democrats are still so shellshocked they got their asses kicked that the Senate hasn't made a peep about their power being subverted at all yet.
If they decide to keep quiet for 4 years then Trump can do whatever he wants.
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United States42490 Posts
On February 05 2025 06:47 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2025 06:45 Simberto wrote:On February 05 2025 06:35 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 05 2025 06:33 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:It's so surreal seeing the U.S. Department of Education's Twitter instantly change from being pro-education to anti-education, the moment that Trump took office. It looks almost as if the account was hacked, with the majority of posts being about "school choice" and "eliminating DEI" and other topics that I wish were just bad jokes. The Biden administration's second-to-last post, on January 19th, reminds us that it's illegal to discriminate based on race, sex, gender, disability, and age ( https://x.com/usedgov/status/1881003735792386211 ). The Biden administration's last post, on the morning of January 20th (MLK Jr. Day), reminds us that "Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. was committed to ensuring equal opportunity, especially in education" ( https://x.com/usedgov/status/1881303215762788862 ). And then Donald Trump became president, with the Trump administration's first post, on January 23rd, letting us know that they are trying to remove any emphasis on diversity, equity, or inclusion ( https://x.com/usedgov/status/1882557001525276887 ). After that, the majority of posts are about destroying public education and occasionally promoting homeschooling, private schooling, and charter schooling (one of many posts: https://x.com/usedgov/status/1884318078181179551 ). It's unsurprising, since Trump promised to do this, but it's still insane. Bright side, you shouldn't have to deal with Department of Education tweets for long. Trump administration drafting executive order to initiate Department of Education’s elimination So, i guess you guys will really get all the horrible and idiotic things Trump said he would do. I guess this is nice, as it gives the voters exactly what they asked for. I hope they will be smart enough to blame themselves and their choice, but i doubt it. Still kinda surreal and horrific how quickly stuff can happen. I sorta with the same speed would ever be achieved with positive changes, but that seems to be utterly impossible. Well when there's no one left or willing to check the power of the President I guess he's able to do whatever he wants. Democrats are still so shellshocked they got their asses kicked that the Senate hasn't made a peep about their power being subverted at all yet. If they decide to keep quiet for 4 years then Trump can do whatever he wants.
Trump can literally do whatever he wants regardless of the Democrats. The Republican Party has been thoroughly neutered by him and the voters have let Trump control Congress and the courts.
The fact that you’re still blaming Democrats is just grasping at anyone to blame but yourself. It is not the duty of Democrats to save you from yourself.
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On February 05 2025 06:43 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2025 06:35 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 05 2025 06:33 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:It's so surreal seeing the U.S. Department of Education's Twitter instantly change from being pro-education to anti-education, the moment that Trump took office. It looks almost as if the account was hacked, with the majority of posts being about "school choice" and "eliminating DEI" and other topics that I wish were just bad jokes. The Biden administration's second-to-last post, on January 19th, reminds us that it's illegal to discriminate based on race, sex, gender, disability, and age ( https://x.com/usedgov/status/1881003735792386211 ). The Biden administration's last post, on the morning of January 20th (MLK Jr. Day), reminds us that "Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. was committed to ensuring equal opportunity, especially in education" ( https://x.com/usedgov/status/1881303215762788862 ). And then Donald Trump became president, with the Trump administration's first post, on January 23rd, letting us know that they are trying to remove any emphasis on diversity, equity, or inclusion ( https://x.com/usedgov/status/1882557001525276887 ). After that, the majority of posts are about destroying public education and occasionally promoting homeschooling, private schooling, and charter schooling (one of many posts: https://x.com/usedgov/status/1884318078181179551 ). It's unsurprising, since Trump promised to do this, but it's still insane. Bright side, you shouldn't have to deal with Department of Education tweets for long. Trump administration drafting executive order to initiate Department of Education’s elimination Yeah :/ And like everything else, the Republican-controlled states will get hit the hardest, because they tend to rely the most on federal aid and national support. The blue states that value education won't be screwed quite as hard as the red states that don't; New Jersey, for example, has a pretty decent state department of education and a pretty decent teacher's union, so our families should be a little safer than those in, say, Mississippi. But it's still a huge blow to the country.
You're assuming a way more normal playing out of this administration than the first weeks have indicated we should expect. I don't think blue states will be as insulated from any of the chaos Trump is bringing as they imagine, especially on the east coast.
Democrats getting into another "welp your genocide is the only reasonable choice for me to make" situation is much higher than it should be and I have no confidence they won't again choose genocide.
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On February 05 2025 06:29 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2025 06:25 KwarK wrote:On February 05 2025 06:24 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 05 2025 06:18 KwarK wrote:On February 05 2025 06:12 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 05 2025 06:04 KwarK wrote:On February 05 2025 05:57 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 05 2025 05:50 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 05 2025 05:48 Gorsameth wrote:On February 05 2025 05:33 Vindicare605 wrote:
[quote]
And you think blaming Trump voters for getting exactly what they want is going to do anything? This is like blaming a 5 year old for pooping in the toy aisle at Walmart. You're not supposed to blame the 5 year old you're supposed to blame the parent who is supposed to prevent it from happening.
The Democrats don't represent me, they never have. I'm not a member of their party because I can't stand how they keep trying to toe this line of being socially liberal but only when it's convenient, and being for workers' rights but only when big business says its ok.
The only fucking purpose they serve is to keep the Republicans out of power, or at the very least to hold enough power in Congress to stop them from going completely crazy unchecked.
They don't have any of it now. They lost the Executive, both branches of Congress and we have a Supreme Court stacked with Conservatives for the next 30 years. When the fuck am I supposed to get mad at the Democrats? Never?
They've managed to lose so badly that we are staring down a government that is going to cause such fucking chaos that it will take 100 years to fix if we ever do manage to fix it.
They are a failure of a political party and they need to fucking hear it. Because if they are allowed to keep running the same plays over and over again, this is NEVER going to get any better. + Show Spoiler +Glad we agree the average American is best compared to a 5year old shitting in supermarkets...
Maybe a more fruitful discussion would be had about how Americans became 5 year olds shitting in super market aisles rather then the campaign that Democrats ran, which I feel very confident in saying absolutely did not matter. + Show Spoiler +No amount of difference message or strategy was going to keep Republicans from the election because the voters are to busy shitting in Walmart to actually listen to that message.
Grocery prices are up because of global inflation problems so lets vote for the other guy. That is the beginning and end for the 'average voter'. If you don't think Democrats have been instrumental in this becoming the norm you haven't been paying attention. 100%. Do you have any idea how many of my Republican friends online only feel comfortable talking politics with me because I'll actually sit down and talk policy with them? Do you know what would happen if I did nothing but call them bigots and racists? The discussion ends and they stop talking to me. Their positions don't change, only now they aren't even hearing my ideas anymore. That's what the Democrats have done. They've managed to get half of the country to completely tune out to everything they say. Not that they have much good to say anyway which I can say as a Liberal that listens to what they say. They spent the entire election doing nothing but attacking Trump and everyone allied with Trump. They conveniently did nothing to show how they would be any better for the country than Trump was, they just kept hammering away about Trump Trump Trump when that has proven to not work when Hillary tried it in 2016 and lost. The most popular Democrats we have in this country are the ones that stay focused on issues and that communicate those issues clearly and consistently. The number of Democrats that do this on a regular basis are very few, and all of them are hated by the establishment Democrats that run the party. This didn't happen overnight and it didn't start with Trump. The Democrats have been edging towards this inevitable outcome for a long time, because it takes them losing to finally see some motivation for improving their message and their messengers. The point you’re making here is that it doesn’t matter how racist the white nationalists get, it’s important to never call them racist. Just sit down with them like rational people and discuss just how many brown people should be sent to the camps. The democrats made the mistake of calling the white nationalists racist. You’re absolutely right. They thought voters would understand that they shouldn’t be voting for the racists but they didn’t have the pulse of the American public at all. No Kwark, the point is that there are millions of every day normal rational people who look at the two parties as equally bad. The number of people who are actually happy about what Trump is doing with Immigration and Tarrifs are low compared to the number of Americans who voted for him just because they felt like something had to change when the Democrats were in power. You need to understand that there are Americans who vote for Republicans just because and I mean JUST because they think the Democrats are trying to take their guns away. I'm not even kidding, there are millions of Americans that do this. The Republicans have managed to sway the public into arguing over wedge issues that most Americans don't actually care about too much and then have dragged the Democrats into enough of these wedge issue arguments that most Americans just tune out of politics altogether, and every time they pop back up to listen and they see Joe Biden speaking looking like he's struggling to even keep his eyes open, they start to wonder if maybe the Republicans have a point. You need to actually look around, talk to Republicans, hear why they hate Democrats so much, hear why they are willing to vote for people they KNOW are terrible just because they hate Democrats so much. You need to understand that Democrats are in BIG BIG trouble. You don't need to agree with Republicans on everything, but you need to be willing to see that the Democrats need to change because if the Democrats keep getting told that they are doing everything right and they keep losing, then nothing is ever going to get any better. That's literally not what you said. You said that the Democrats can't simply state that the Republicans are proposing racist policies and trust the people to vote against racism, which is right, but you said it from a stance of pro-racism. Your objection was that they were calling out racists and you were proud that you personally never do that. The Democrats weren't wrong that the Republicans are being super fucking racist, they were wrong to think that the people would care. You know what I would do instead? Since I can't get you to understand why throwing the word Racist around gets you negative points with voters, let me tell you what I would do instead. I would propose alternative policy. I would simply go in front of congress, and I would introduce an alternative bill that deals with whatever issue the Republicans are proposing and I would do it in a way that isn't racist as fuck. Instead of focusing everything on illegal immigrants I would introduce bills to punish companies for hiring illegal immigrants, I would introduce new taxes on companies that outsource jobs like Bernie wants to do. I would take the issue and I would spin towards something I wanted done, because at the end of the day, the American public most of all just wants to see things getting done. But when all you do all day is stand at the podium and call people names, that just makes it look like you're wasting everyone's time and more importantly everyone's money. Throwing the word racist around gets you negative points with racists. What you're apparently incapable of understanding is that you're not meant to be racist. It's a bad thing. That's why I'm blaming the American people for being racist and saying that people attacking the democrat platform for being a little racist are missing the point. No Kwark it doesn't. There are dozens of people I talk to, family members I talk to, that are not racist people, that get fed up of being called racist because they support a policy that Republicans support.
If they voted for Republicans, at best they ignore their racism and bigotry because they prioritise their own perceived gain over that. I guess you can try to explain yourself around that, but at the end of the day youre fine with hurting other people because you got mad someone called you "racist" (proving the point funnily enough).
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On February 05 2025 06:51 Luolis wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2025 06:29 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 05 2025 06:25 KwarK wrote:On February 05 2025 06:24 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 05 2025 06:18 KwarK wrote:On February 05 2025 06:12 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 05 2025 06:04 KwarK wrote:On February 05 2025 05:57 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 05 2025 05:50 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 05 2025 05:48 Gorsameth wrote:[quote] + Show Spoiler +Glad we agree the average American is best compared to a 5year old shitting in supermarkets...
Maybe a more fruitful discussion would be had about how Americans became 5 year olds shitting in super market aisles rather then the campaign that Democrats ran, which I feel very confident in saying absolutely did not matter. + Show Spoiler +No amount of difference message or strategy was going to keep Republicans from the election because the voters are to busy shitting in Walmart to actually listen to that message.
Grocery prices are up because of global inflation problems so lets vote for the other guy. That is the beginning and end for the 'average voter'. If you don't think Democrats have been instrumental in this becoming the norm you haven't been paying attention. 100%. Do you have any idea how many of my Republican friends online only feel comfortable talking politics with me because I'll actually sit down and talk policy with them? Do you know what would happen if I did nothing but call them bigots and racists? The discussion ends and they stop talking to me. Their positions don't change, only now they aren't even hearing my ideas anymore. That's what the Democrats have done. They've managed to get half of the country to completely tune out to everything they say. Not that they have much good to say anyway which I can say as a Liberal that listens to what they say. They spent the entire election doing nothing but attacking Trump and everyone allied with Trump. They conveniently did nothing to show how they would be any better for the country than Trump was, they just kept hammering away about Trump Trump Trump when that has proven to not work when Hillary tried it in 2016 and lost. The most popular Democrats we have in this country are the ones that stay focused on issues and that communicate those issues clearly and consistently. The number of Democrats that do this on a regular basis are very few, and all of them are hated by the establishment Democrats that run the party. This didn't happen overnight and it didn't start with Trump. The Democrats have been edging towards this inevitable outcome for a long time, because it takes them losing to finally see some motivation for improving their message and their messengers. The point you’re making here is that it doesn’t matter how racist the white nationalists get, it’s important to never call them racist. Just sit down with them like rational people and discuss just how many brown people should be sent to the camps. The democrats made the mistake of calling the white nationalists racist. You’re absolutely right. They thought voters would understand that they shouldn’t be voting for the racists but they didn’t have the pulse of the American public at all. No Kwark, the point is that there are millions of every day normal rational people who look at the two parties as equally bad. The number of people who are actually happy about what Trump is doing with Immigration and Tarrifs are low compared to the number of Americans who voted for him just because they felt like something had to change when the Democrats were in power. You need to understand that there are Americans who vote for Republicans just because and I mean JUST because they think the Democrats are trying to take their guns away. I'm not even kidding, there are millions of Americans that do this. The Republicans have managed to sway the public into arguing over wedge issues that most Americans don't actually care about too much and then have dragged the Democrats into enough of these wedge issue arguments that most Americans just tune out of politics altogether, and every time they pop back up to listen and they see Joe Biden speaking looking like he's struggling to even keep his eyes open, they start to wonder if maybe the Republicans have a point. You need to actually look around, talk to Republicans, hear why they hate Democrats so much, hear why they are willing to vote for people they KNOW are terrible just because they hate Democrats so much. You need to understand that Democrats are in BIG BIG trouble. You don't need to agree with Republicans on everything, but you need to be willing to see that the Democrats need to change because if the Democrats keep getting told that they are doing everything right and they keep losing, then nothing is ever going to get any better. That's literally not what you said. You said that the Democrats can't simply state that the Republicans are proposing racist policies and trust the people to vote against racism, which is right, but you said it from a stance of pro-racism. Your objection was that they were calling out racists and you were proud that you personally never do that. The Democrats weren't wrong that the Republicans are being super fucking racist, they were wrong to think that the people would care. You know what I would do instead? Since I can't get you to understand why throwing the word Racist around gets you negative points with voters, let me tell you what I would do instead. I would propose alternative policy. I would simply go in front of congress, and I would introduce an alternative bill that deals with whatever issue the Republicans are proposing and I would do it in a way that isn't racist as fuck. Instead of focusing everything on illegal immigrants I would introduce bills to punish companies for hiring illegal immigrants, I would introduce new taxes on companies that outsource jobs like Bernie wants to do. I would take the issue and I would spin towards something I wanted done, because at the end of the day, the American public most of all just wants to see things getting done. But when all you do all day is stand at the podium and call people names, that just makes it look like you're wasting everyone's time and more importantly everyone's money. Throwing the word racist around gets you negative points with racists. What you're apparently incapable of understanding is that you're not meant to be racist. It's a bad thing. That's why I'm blaming the American people for being racist and saying that people attacking the democrat platform for being a little racist are missing the point. No Kwark it doesn't. There are dozens of people I talk to, family members I talk to, that are not racist people, that get fed up of being called racist because they support a policy that Republicans support. If they voted for Republicans, at best they ignore their racism and bigotry because they prioritise their own perceived gain over that. I guess you can try to explain yourself around that , but at the end of the day youre fine with hurting other people because you got mad someone called you "racist" (proving the point funnily enough).
This is basically the same excuse libs/Dems use for not trying socialism while they shitpost and wait for Democrats to give them something to do.
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On February 05 2025 06:51 Luolis wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2025 06:29 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 05 2025 06:25 KwarK wrote:On February 05 2025 06:24 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 05 2025 06:18 KwarK wrote:On February 05 2025 06:12 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 05 2025 06:04 KwarK wrote:On February 05 2025 05:57 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 05 2025 05:50 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 05 2025 05:48 Gorsameth wrote:[quote] + Show Spoiler +Glad we agree the average American is best compared to a 5year old shitting in supermarkets...
Maybe a more fruitful discussion would be had about how Americans became 5 year olds shitting in super market aisles rather then the campaign that Democrats ran, which I feel very confident in saying absolutely did not matter. + Show Spoiler +No amount of difference message or strategy was going to keep Republicans from the election because the voters are to busy shitting in Walmart to actually listen to that message.
Grocery prices are up because of global inflation problems so lets vote for the other guy. That is the beginning and end for the 'average voter'. If you don't think Democrats have been instrumental in this becoming the norm you haven't been paying attention. 100%. Do you have any idea how many of my Republican friends online only feel comfortable talking politics with me because I'll actually sit down and talk policy with them? Do you know what would happen if I did nothing but call them bigots and racists? The discussion ends and they stop talking to me. Their positions don't change, only now they aren't even hearing my ideas anymore. That's what the Democrats have done. They've managed to get half of the country to completely tune out to everything they say. Not that they have much good to say anyway which I can say as a Liberal that listens to what they say. They spent the entire election doing nothing but attacking Trump and everyone allied with Trump. They conveniently did nothing to show how they would be any better for the country than Trump was, they just kept hammering away about Trump Trump Trump when that has proven to not work when Hillary tried it in 2016 and lost. The most popular Democrats we have in this country are the ones that stay focused on issues and that communicate those issues clearly and consistently. The number of Democrats that do this on a regular basis are very few, and all of them are hated by the establishment Democrats that run the party. This didn't happen overnight and it didn't start with Trump. The Democrats have been edging towards this inevitable outcome for a long time, because it takes them losing to finally see some motivation for improving their message and their messengers. The point you’re making here is that it doesn’t matter how racist the white nationalists get, it’s important to never call them racist. Just sit down with them like rational people and discuss just how many brown people should be sent to the camps. The democrats made the mistake of calling the white nationalists racist. You’re absolutely right. They thought voters would understand that they shouldn’t be voting for the racists but they didn’t have the pulse of the American public at all. No Kwark, the point is that there are millions of every day normal rational people who look at the two parties as equally bad. The number of people who are actually happy about what Trump is doing with Immigration and Tarrifs are low compared to the number of Americans who voted for him just because they felt like something had to change when the Democrats were in power. You need to understand that there are Americans who vote for Republicans just because and I mean JUST because they think the Democrats are trying to take their guns away. I'm not even kidding, there are millions of Americans that do this. The Republicans have managed to sway the public into arguing over wedge issues that most Americans don't actually care about too much and then have dragged the Democrats into enough of these wedge issue arguments that most Americans just tune out of politics altogether, and every time they pop back up to listen and they see Joe Biden speaking looking like he's struggling to even keep his eyes open, they start to wonder if maybe the Republicans have a point. You need to actually look around, talk to Republicans, hear why they hate Democrats so much, hear why they are willing to vote for people they KNOW are terrible just because they hate Democrats so much. You need to understand that Democrats are in BIG BIG trouble. You don't need to agree with Republicans on everything, but you need to be willing to see that the Democrats need to change because if the Democrats keep getting told that they are doing everything right and they keep losing, then nothing is ever going to get any better. That's literally not what you said. You said that the Democrats can't simply state that the Republicans are proposing racist policies and trust the people to vote against racism, which is right, but you said it from a stance of pro-racism. Your objection was that they were calling out racists and you were proud that you personally never do that. The Democrats weren't wrong that the Republicans are being super fucking racist, they were wrong to think that the people would care. You know what I would do instead? Since I can't get you to understand why throwing the word Racist around gets you negative points with voters, let me tell you what I would do instead. I would propose alternative policy. I would simply go in front of congress, and I would introduce an alternative bill that deals with whatever issue the Republicans are proposing and I would do it in a way that isn't racist as fuck. Instead of focusing everything on illegal immigrants I would introduce bills to punish companies for hiring illegal immigrants, I would introduce new taxes on companies that outsource jobs like Bernie wants to do. I would take the issue and I would spin towards something I wanted done, because at the end of the day, the American public most of all just wants to see things getting done. But when all you do all day is stand at the podium and call people names, that just makes it look like you're wasting everyone's time and more importantly everyone's money. Throwing the word racist around gets you negative points with racists. What you're apparently incapable of understanding is that you're not meant to be racist. It's a bad thing. That's why I'm blaming the American people for being racist and saying that people attacking the democrat platform for being a little racist are missing the point. No Kwark it doesn't. There are dozens of people I talk to, family members I talk to, that are not racist people, that get fed up of being called racist because they support a policy that Republicans support. If they voted for Republicans, at best they ignore their racism and bigotry because they prioritise their own perceived gain over that. I guess you can try to explain yourself around that, but at the end of the day youre fine with hurting other people because you got mad someone called you "racist" (proving the point funnily enough).
Guns, and Taxes. That's 90% of why my family members are Republicans. Guns and Taxes. That's literally it.
Explain to me how that makes them racist?
Whenever we get into arguments about politics at family get togethers, they actually support more Democratic policies than they support Republican policies, but because Guns and Taxes is what they care about the MOST, that's who they vote for.
This is a huge reason why I can't stand single issue voters, but that's another topic.
Whenever they get roped into all of the trans arguments, and topics about immigration, they sit back and say that they don't want anything to do with any of that. We can't get them to care, because these are simply issues they don't care about.
Now what do you think would happen if I called them racist at one of these gatherings for supporting the Republicans? Nothing. Nothing except a big fight about how could I call them racist when their parents are 1st generation Mexican and they have a wife who is black?
Nothing changes about any of their political opinions except now I've just made the entire get together one big hostile place, where I'm now the asshole for ruining everyone's good time.
Do you get it now? Do you get how throwing around the word racist doesn't do anything to help anybody?
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On February 05 2025 07:04 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2025 06:51 Luolis wrote:On February 05 2025 06:29 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 05 2025 06:25 KwarK wrote:On February 05 2025 06:24 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 05 2025 06:18 KwarK wrote:On February 05 2025 06:12 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 05 2025 06:04 KwarK wrote:On February 05 2025 05:57 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 05 2025 05:50 GreenHorizons wrote:
[quote]If you don't think Democrats have been instrumental in this becoming the norm you haven't been paying attention.
100%. Do you have any idea how many of my Republican friends online only feel comfortable talking politics with me because I'll actually sit down and talk policy with them? Do you know what would happen if I did nothing but call them bigots and racists? The discussion ends and they stop talking to me. Their positions don't change, only now they aren't even hearing my ideas anymore. That's what the Democrats have done. They've managed to get half of the country to completely tune out to everything they say. Not that they have much good to say anyway which I can say as a Liberal that listens to what they say. They spent the entire election doing nothing but attacking Trump and everyone allied with Trump. They conveniently did nothing to show how they would be any better for the country than Trump was, they just kept hammering away about Trump Trump Trump when that has proven to not work when Hillary tried it in 2016 and lost. The most popular Democrats we have in this country are the ones that stay focused on issues and that communicate those issues clearly and consistently. The number of Democrats that do this on a regular basis are very few, and all of them are hated by the establishment Democrats that run the party. This didn't happen overnight and it didn't start with Trump. The Democrats have been edging towards this inevitable outcome for a long time, because it takes them losing to finally see some motivation for improving their message and their messengers. The point you’re making here is that it doesn’t matter how racist the white nationalists get, it’s important to never call them racist. Just sit down with them like rational people and discuss just how many brown people should be sent to the camps. The democrats made the mistake of calling the white nationalists racist. You’re absolutely right. They thought voters would understand that they shouldn’t be voting for the racists but they didn’t have the pulse of the American public at all. No Kwark, the point is that there are millions of every day normal rational people who look at the two parties as equally bad. The number of people who are actually happy about what Trump is doing with Immigration and Tarrifs are low compared to the number of Americans who voted for him just because they felt like something had to change when the Democrats were in power. You need to understand that there are Americans who vote for Republicans just because and I mean JUST because they think the Democrats are trying to take their guns away. I'm not even kidding, there are millions of Americans that do this. The Republicans have managed to sway the public into arguing over wedge issues that most Americans don't actually care about too much and then have dragged the Democrats into enough of these wedge issue arguments that most Americans just tune out of politics altogether, and every time they pop back up to listen and they see Joe Biden speaking looking like he's struggling to even keep his eyes open, they start to wonder if maybe the Republicans have a point. You need to actually look around, talk to Republicans, hear why they hate Democrats so much, hear why they are willing to vote for people they KNOW are terrible just because they hate Democrats so much. You need to understand that Democrats are in BIG BIG trouble. You don't need to agree with Republicans on everything, but you need to be willing to see that the Democrats need to change because if the Democrats keep getting told that they are doing everything right and they keep losing, then nothing is ever going to get any better. That's literally not what you said. You said that the Democrats can't simply state that the Republicans are proposing racist policies and trust the people to vote against racism, which is right, but you said it from a stance of pro-racism. Your objection was that they were calling out racists and you were proud that you personally never do that. The Democrats weren't wrong that the Republicans are being super fucking racist, they were wrong to think that the people would care. You know what I would do instead? Since I can't get you to understand why throwing the word Racist around gets you negative points with voters, let me tell you what I would do instead. I would propose alternative policy. I would simply go in front of congress, and I would introduce an alternative bill that deals with whatever issue the Republicans are proposing and I would do it in a way that isn't racist as fuck. Instead of focusing everything on illegal immigrants I would introduce bills to punish companies for hiring illegal immigrants, I would introduce new taxes on companies that outsource jobs like Bernie wants to do. I would take the issue and I would spin towards something I wanted done, because at the end of the day, the American public most of all just wants to see things getting done. But when all you do all day is stand at the podium and call people names, that just makes it look like you're wasting everyone's time and more importantly everyone's money. Throwing the word racist around gets you negative points with racists. What you're apparently incapable of understanding is that you're not meant to be racist. It's a bad thing. That's why I'm blaming the American people for being racist and saying that people attacking the democrat platform for being a little racist are missing the point. No Kwark it doesn't. There are dozens of people I talk to, family members I talk to, that are not racist people, that get fed up of being called racist because they support a policy that Republicans support. If they voted for Republicans, at best they ignore their racism and bigotry because they prioritise their own perceived gain over that. I guess you can try to explain yourself around that, but at the end of the day youre fine with hurting other people because you got mad someone called you "racist" (proving the point funnily enough). Guns, and Taxes. That's 90% of why my family members are Republicans. Guns and Taxes. That's literally it. Explain to me how that makes them racist? Whenever we get into arguments about politics at family get togethers, they actually support more Democratic policies than they support Republican policies, but because Guns and Taxes is what they care about the MOST, that's who they vote for. This is a huge reason why I can't stand single issue voters, but that's another topic. Whenever they get roped into all of the trans arguments, and topics about immigration, they sit back and say that they don't want anything to do with any of that. We can't get them to care, because these are simply issues they don't care about. Now what do you think would happen if I called them racist at one of these gatherings for supporting the Republicans? Nothing. Nothing except a big fight about how could I call them racist when their parents are 1st generation Mexican and they have a wife who is black? Nothing changes about any of their political opinions except now I've just made the entire get together one big hostile place. Do you get it now? Do you get how throwing around the word racist doesn't do anything to help anybody?
You just reiterated my point with more words. Your family is ok with other people being hurt as long as they get lower taxes and keep their guns. They might not be bigoted or racist personally, but they're ok with bigoted and racist policies as long as they get personal gain.
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United States42490 Posts
On February 05 2025 07:04 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2025 06:51 Luolis wrote:On February 05 2025 06:29 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 05 2025 06:25 KwarK wrote:On February 05 2025 06:24 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 05 2025 06:18 KwarK wrote:On February 05 2025 06:12 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 05 2025 06:04 KwarK wrote:On February 05 2025 05:57 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 05 2025 05:50 GreenHorizons wrote:
[quote]If you don't think Democrats have been instrumental in this becoming the norm you haven't been paying attention.
100%. Do you have any idea how many of my Republican friends online only feel comfortable talking politics with me because I'll actually sit down and talk policy with them? Do you know what would happen if I did nothing but call them bigots and racists? The discussion ends and they stop talking to me. Their positions don't change, only now they aren't even hearing my ideas anymore. That's what the Democrats have done. They've managed to get half of the country to completely tune out to everything they say. Not that they have much good to say anyway which I can say as a Liberal that listens to what they say. They spent the entire election doing nothing but attacking Trump and everyone allied with Trump. They conveniently did nothing to show how they would be any better for the country than Trump was, they just kept hammering away about Trump Trump Trump when that has proven to not work when Hillary tried it in 2016 and lost. The most popular Democrats we have in this country are the ones that stay focused on issues and that communicate those issues clearly and consistently. The number of Democrats that do this on a regular basis are very few, and all of them are hated by the establishment Democrats that run the party. This didn't happen overnight and it didn't start with Trump. The Democrats have been edging towards this inevitable outcome for a long time, because it takes them losing to finally see some motivation for improving their message and their messengers. The point you’re making here is that it doesn’t matter how racist the white nationalists get, it’s important to never call them racist. Just sit down with them like rational people and discuss just how many brown people should be sent to the camps. The democrats made the mistake of calling the white nationalists racist. You’re absolutely right. They thought voters would understand that they shouldn’t be voting for the racists but they didn’t have the pulse of the American public at all. No Kwark, the point is that there are millions of every day normal rational people who look at the two parties as equally bad. The number of people who are actually happy about what Trump is doing with Immigration and Tarrifs are low compared to the number of Americans who voted for him just because they felt like something had to change when the Democrats were in power. You need to understand that there are Americans who vote for Republicans just because and I mean JUST because they think the Democrats are trying to take their guns away. I'm not even kidding, there are millions of Americans that do this. The Republicans have managed to sway the public into arguing over wedge issues that most Americans don't actually care about too much and then have dragged the Democrats into enough of these wedge issue arguments that most Americans just tune out of politics altogether, and every time they pop back up to listen and they see Joe Biden speaking looking like he's struggling to even keep his eyes open, they start to wonder if maybe the Republicans have a point. You need to actually look around, talk to Republicans, hear why they hate Democrats so much, hear why they are willing to vote for people they KNOW are terrible just because they hate Democrats so much. You need to understand that Democrats are in BIG BIG trouble. You don't need to agree with Republicans on everything, but you need to be willing to see that the Democrats need to change because if the Democrats keep getting told that they are doing everything right and they keep losing, then nothing is ever going to get any better. That's literally not what you said. You said that the Democrats can't simply state that the Republicans are proposing racist policies and trust the people to vote against racism, which is right, but you said it from a stance of pro-racism. Your objection was that they were calling out racists and you were proud that you personally never do that. The Democrats weren't wrong that the Republicans are being super fucking racist, they were wrong to think that the people would care. You know what I would do instead? Since I can't get you to understand why throwing the word Racist around gets you negative points with voters, let me tell you what I would do instead. I would propose alternative policy. I would simply go in front of congress, and I would introduce an alternative bill that deals with whatever issue the Republicans are proposing and I would do it in a way that isn't racist as fuck. Instead of focusing everything on illegal immigrants I would introduce bills to punish companies for hiring illegal immigrants, I would introduce new taxes on companies that outsource jobs like Bernie wants to do. I would take the issue and I would spin towards something I wanted done, because at the end of the day, the American public most of all just wants to see things getting done. But when all you do all day is stand at the podium and call people names, that just makes it look like you're wasting everyone's time and more importantly everyone's money. Throwing the word racist around gets you negative points with racists. What you're apparently incapable of understanding is that you're not meant to be racist. It's a bad thing. That's why I'm blaming the American people for being racist and saying that people attacking the democrat platform for being a little racist are missing the point. No Kwark it doesn't. There are dozens of people I talk to, family members I talk to, that are not racist people, that get fed up of being called racist because they support a policy that Republicans support. If they voted for Republicans, at best they ignore their racism and bigotry because they prioritise their own perceived gain over that. I guess you can try to explain yourself around that, but at the end of the day youre fine with hurting other people because you got mad someone called you "racist" (proving the point funnily enough). Guns, and Taxes. That's 90% of why my family members are Republicans. Guns and Taxes. That's literally it. Explain to me how that makes them racist? Whenever we get into arguments about politics at family get togethers, they actually support more Democratic policies than they support Republican policies, but because Guns and Taxes is what they care about the MOST, that's who they vote for. This is a huge reason why I can't stand single issue voters, but that's another topic. Whenever they get roped into all of the trans arguments, and topics about immigration, they sit back and say that they don't want anything to do with any of that. We can't get them to care, because these are simply issues they don't care about. Now what do you think would happen if I called them racist at one of these gatherings for supporting the Republicans? Nothing. Nothing except a big fight about how could I call them racist when their parents are 1st generation Mexican and they have a wife who is black? Nothing changes about any of their political opinions except now I've just made the entire get together one big hostile place, where I'm now the asshole for ruining everyone's good time. Do you get it now? Do you get how throwing around the word racist doesn't do anything to help anybody?
Being willing to sell out people of a different race because of gun ownership fearmongering is a pretty racist thing to do. Voting for racists pledging to enact racism is a racist thing to do, even if you didn’t vote for them specifically for the racism. It’s a dealbreaker for non racists.
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On February 05 2025 06:51 Luolis wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2025 06:29 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 05 2025 06:25 KwarK wrote:On February 05 2025 06:24 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 05 2025 06:18 KwarK wrote:On February 05 2025 06:12 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 05 2025 06:04 KwarK wrote:On February 05 2025 05:57 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 05 2025 05:50 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 05 2025 05:48 Gorsameth wrote:[quote] + Show Spoiler +Glad we agree the average American is best compared to a 5year old shitting in supermarkets...
Maybe a more fruitful discussion would be had about how Americans became 5 year olds shitting in super market aisles rather then the campaign that Democrats ran, which I feel very confident in saying absolutely did not matter. + Show Spoiler +No amount of difference message or strategy was going to keep Republicans from the election because the voters are to busy shitting in Walmart to actually listen to that message.
Grocery prices are up because of global inflation problems so lets vote for the other guy. That is the beginning and end for the 'average voter'. If you don't think Democrats have been instrumental in this becoming the norm you haven't been paying attention. 100%. Do you have any idea how many of my Republican friends online only feel comfortable talking politics with me because I'll actually sit down and talk policy with them? Do you know what would happen if I did nothing but call them bigots and racists? The discussion ends and they stop talking to me. Their positions don't change, only now they aren't even hearing my ideas anymore. That's what the Democrats have done. They've managed to get half of the country to completely tune out to everything they say. Not that they have much good to say anyway which I can say as a Liberal that listens to what they say. They spent the entire election doing nothing but attacking Trump and everyone allied with Trump. They conveniently did nothing to show how they would be any better for the country than Trump was, they just kept hammering away about Trump Trump Trump when that has proven to not work when Hillary tried it in 2016 and lost. The most popular Democrats we have in this country are the ones that stay focused on issues and that communicate those issues clearly and consistently. The number of Democrats that do this on a regular basis are very few, and all of them are hated by the establishment Democrats that run the party. This didn't happen overnight and it didn't start with Trump. The Democrats have been edging towards this inevitable outcome for a long time, because it takes them losing to finally see some motivation for improving their message and their messengers. The point you’re making here is that it doesn’t matter how racist the white nationalists get, it’s important to never call them racist. Just sit down with them like rational people and discuss just how many brown people should be sent to the camps. The democrats made the mistake of calling the white nationalists racist. You’re absolutely right. They thought voters would understand that they shouldn’t be voting for the racists but they didn’t have the pulse of the American public at all. No Kwark, the point is that there are millions of every day normal rational people who look at the two parties as equally bad. The number of people who are actually happy about what Trump is doing with Immigration and Tarrifs are low compared to the number of Americans who voted for him just because they felt like something had to change when the Democrats were in power. You need to understand that there are Americans who vote for Republicans just because and I mean JUST because they think the Democrats are trying to take their guns away. I'm not even kidding, there are millions of Americans that do this. The Republicans have managed to sway the public into arguing over wedge issues that most Americans don't actually care about too much and then have dragged the Democrats into enough of these wedge issue arguments that most Americans just tune out of politics altogether, and every time they pop back up to listen and they see Joe Biden speaking looking like he's struggling to even keep his eyes open, they start to wonder if maybe the Republicans have a point. You need to actually look around, talk to Republicans, hear why they hate Democrats so much, hear why they are willing to vote for people they KNOW are terrible just because they hate Democrats so much. You need to understand that Democrats are in BIG BIG trouble. You don't need to agree with Republicans on everything, but you need to be willing to see that the Democrats need to change because if the Democrats keep getting told that they are doing everything right and they keep losing, then nothing is ever going to get any better. That's literally not what you said. You said that the Democrats can't simply state that the Republicans are proposing racist policies and trust the people to vote against racism, which is right, but you said it from a stance of pro-racism. Your objection was that they were calling out racists and you were proud that you personally never do that. The Democrats weren't wrong that the Republicans are being super fucking racist, they were wrong to think that the people would care. You know what I would do instead? Since I can't get you to understand why throwing the word Racist around gets you negative points with voters, let me tell you what I would do instead. I would propose alternative policy. I would simply go in front of congress, and I would introduce an alternative bill that deals with whatever issue the Republicans are proposing and I would do it in a way that isn't racist as fuck. Instead of focusing everything on illegal immigrants I would introduce bills to punish companies for hiring illegal immigrants, I would introduce new taxes on companies that outsource jobs like Bernie wants to do. I would take the issue and I would spin towards something I wanted done, because at the end of the day, the American public most of all just wants to see things getting done. But when all you do all day is stand at the podium and call people names, that just makes it look like you're wasting everyone's time and more importantly everyone's money. Throwing the word racist around gets you negative points with racists. What you're apparently incapable of understanding is that you're not meant to be racist. It's a bad thing. That's why I'm blaming the American people for being racist and saying that people attacking the democrat platform for being a little racist are missing the point. No Kwark it doesn't. There are dozens of people I talk to, family members I talk to, that are not racist people, that get fed up of being called racist because they support a policy that Republicans support. If they voted for Republicans, at best they ignore their racism and bigotry because they prioritise their own perceived gain over that. I guess you can try to explain yourself around that, but at the end of the day youre fine with hurting other people because you got mad someone called you "racist" (proving the point funnily enough).
There are a lot of people who are in this very weird space with racism, their racism is very casual, its not KKK white supremacy racism, its just sort of a milder brand of racism-by-osmosis through living in Republican places, these people aren't really even super conscious of how theyre racist, they dont see themselves as being hateful, theyre not super plugged into politics, etc.
These people are totally changeable, I have pulled people from this place and got them to the left of Democrats by talking to them, reinforcing some of their previously held notions, specifically about how the rich elites fuck us over, how wages suck, politicians are only in it for themselves, etc.
All of these things that could be used as Republican talking points, rich elite pedophile pizza parties, immigrants make wages bad, politicians bad means all government bad, etc.
But I reframe them with a more leftward bias, rich elites fuck us over, we should make them pay their taxes like we do, wages suck we should unionize and demand better wages since we do all the actual work at our jobs, politicians are corrupt, we need money out of politics, etc. and they seem pretty receptive in my experience.
Its small, groundwork type shit, but its infinitely more productive than calling people racist (even if they are being racist) and praying that the average fuckin' american is introspective enough to figure themselves out of racism from there lmao.
Doing that is still work, not everyone should feel obliged to do it, but it is helpful in ways that volunteering at a polling place or something is not. Bernie's biggest success (Claims Adjustor CEO Killer Man too) was managing to actually find some interesting overlap between Americans. Too bad Democrats are terrified of that sort of leftwing rhetoric and would rather cede to fascism and replay their same old 30 year old dumbass consultant backed playbook than shift to an obvious opening that might have not only smothered this fascist movement in it's crib but brought genuine positive change and hope to people.
But shit, gotta make sure those good billionaire donors can become trillionaires soon, I mean god forbid it took them another 20-30 years to hit that milestone.
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On February 05 2025 07:11 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2025 07:04 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 05 2025 06:51 Luolis wrote:On February 05 2025 06:29 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 05 2025 06:25 KwarK wrote:On February 05 2025 06:24 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 05 2025 06:18 KwarK wrote:On February 05 2025 06:12 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 05 2025 06:04 KwarK wrote:On February 05 2025 05:57 Vindicare605 wrote:
[quote]
100%.
Do you have any idea how many of my Republican friends online only feel comfortable talking politics with me because I'll actually sit down and talk policy with them?
Do you know what would happen if I did nothing but call them bigots and racists? The discussion ends and they stop talking to me. Their positions don't change, only now they aren't even hearing my ideas anymore.
That's what the Democrats have done. They've managed to get half of the country to completely tune out to everything they say. Not that they have much good to say anyway which I can say as a Liberal that listens to what they say.
They spent the entire election doing nothing but attacking Trump and everyone allied with Trump. They conveniently did nothing to show how they would be any better for the country than Trump was, they just kept hammering away about Trump Trump Trump when that has proven to not work when Hillary tried it in 2016 and lost.
The most popular Democrats we have in this country are the ones that stay focused on issues and that communicate those issues clearly and consistently. The number of Democrats that do this on a regular basis are very few, and all of them are hated by the establishment Democrats that run the party.
This didn't happen overnight and it didn't start with Trump. The Democrats have been edging towards this inevitable outcome for a long time, because it takes them losing to finally see some motivation for improving their message and their messengers.
The point you’re making here is that it doesn’t matter how racist the white nationalists get, it’s important to never call them racist. Just sit down with them like rational people and discuss just how many brown people should be sent to the camps. The democrats made the mistake of calling the white nationalists racist. You’re absolutely right. They thought voters would understand that they shouldn’t be voting for the racists but they didn’t have the pulse of the American public at all. No Kwark, the point is that there are millions of every day normal rational people who look at the two parties as equally bad. The number of people who are actually happy about what Trump is doing with Immigration and Tarrifs are low compared to the number of Americans who voted for him just because they felt like something had to change when the Democrats were in power. You need to understand that there are Americans who vote for Republicans just because and I mean JUST because they think the Democrats are trying to take their guns away. I'm not even kidding, there are millions of Americans that do this. The Republicans have managed to sway the public into arguing over wedge issues that most Americans don't actually care about too much and then have dragged the Democrats into enough of these wedge issue arguments that most Americans just tune out of politics altogether, and every time they pop back up to listen and they see Joe Biden speaking looking like he's struggling to even keep his eyes open, they start to wonder if maybe the Republicans have a point. You need to actually look around, talk to Republicans, hear why they hate Democrats so much, hear why they are willing to vote for people they KNOW are terrible just because they hate Democrats so much. You need to understand that Democrats are in BIG BIG trouble. You don't need to agree with Republicans on everything, but you need to be willing to see that the Democrats need to change because if the Democrats keep getting told that they are doing everything right and they keep losing, then nothing is ever going to get any better. That's literally not what you said. You said that the Democrats can't simply state that the Republicans are proposing racist policies and trust the people to vote against racism, which is right, but you said it from a stance of pro-racism. Your objection was that they were calling out racists and you were proud that you personally never do that. The Democrats weren't wrong that the Republicans are being super fucking racist, they were wrong to think that the people would care. You know what I would do instead? Since I can't get you to understand why throwing the word Racist around gets you negative points with voters, let me tell you what I would do instead. I would propose alternative policy. I would simply go in front of congress, and I would introduce an alternative bill that deals with whatever issue the Republicans are proposing and I would do it in a way that isn't racist as fuck. Instead of focusing everything on illegal immigrants I would introduce bills to punish companies for hiring illegal immigrants, I would introduce new taxes on companies that outsource jobs like Bernie wants to do. I would take the issue and I would spin towards something I wanted done, because at the end of the day, the American public most of all just wants to see things getting done. But when all you do all day is stand at the podium and call people names, that just makes it look like you're wasting everyone's time and more importantly everyone's money. Throwing the word racist around gets you negative points with racists. What you're apparently incapable of understanding is that you're not meant to be racist. It's a bad thing. That's why I'm blaming the American people for being racist and saying that people attacking the democrat platform for being a little racist are missing the point. No Kwark it doesn't. There are dozens of people I talk to, family members I talk to, that are not racist people, that get fed up of being called racist because they support a policy that Republicans support. If they voted for Republicans, at best they ignore their racism and bigotry because they prioritise their own perceived gain over that. I guess you can try to explain yourself around that, but at the end of the day youre fine with hurting other people because you got mad someone called you "racist" (proving the point funnily enough). Guns, and Taxes. That's 90% of why my family members are Republicans. Guns and Taxes. That's literally it. Explain to me how that makes them racist? Whenever we get into arguments about politics at family get togethers, they actually support more Democratic policies than they support Republican policies, but because Guns and Taxes is what they care about the MOST, that's who they vote for. This is a huge reason why I can't stand single issue voters, but that's another topic. Whenever they get roped into all of the trans arguments, and topics about immigration, they sit back and say that they don't want anything to do with any of that. We can't get them to care, because these are simply issues they don't care about. Now what do you think would happen if I called them racist at one of these gatherings for supporting the Republicans? Nothing. Nothing except a big fight about how could I call them racist when their parents are 1st generation Mexican and they have a wife who is black? Nothing changes about any of their political opinions except now I've just made the entire get together one big hostile place, where I'm now the asshole for ruining everyone's good time. Do you get it now? Do you get how throwing around the word racist doesn't do anything to help anybody? Being willing to sell out people of a different race because of gun ownership fearmongering is a pretty racist thing to do. Voting for racists pledging to enact racism is a racist thing to do, even if you didn’t vote for them specifically for the racism. It’s a dealbreaker for non racists.
You need to make concessions somewhere Kwark, because in a Democracy, you can't afford to isolate every single person that doesn't conform exactly to your EXTREMELY strict rules about what makes them a racist or not.
Because like I said. The Democrats are losers. They've lost to Donald Trump twice now, and even if the Democrats somehow manage to win in 2028, we still have 30 years at minimum of a Supreme Court that is stacked full of Republicans.
At some point you need to step back and ask yourself if you're tired of your side losing, because I sure as hell am.
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United States42490 Posts
On February 05 2025 07:15 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2025 07:11 KwarK wrote:On February 05 2025 07:04 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 05 2025 06:51 Luolis wrote:On February 05 2025 06:29 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 05 2025 06:25 KwarK wrote:On February 05 2025 06:24 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 05 2025 06:18 KwarK wrote:On February 05 2025 06:12 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 05 2025 06:04 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
The point you’re making here is that it doesn’t matter how racist the white nationalists get, it’s important to never call them racist. Just sit down with them like rational people and discuss just how many brown people should be sent to the camps. The democrats made the mistake of calling the white nationalists racist. You’re absolutely right. They thought voters would understand that they shouldn’t be voting for the racists but they didn’t have the pulse of the American public at all. No Kwark, the point is that there are millions of every day normal rational people who look at the two parties as equally bad. The number of people who are actually happy about what Trump is doing with Immigration and Tarrifs are low compared to the number of Americans who voted for him just because they felt like something had to change when the Democrats were in power. You need to understand that there are Americans who vote for Republicans just because and I mean JUST because they think the Democrats are trying to take their guns away. I'm not even kidding, there are millions of Americans that do this. The Republicans have managed to sway the public into arguing over wedge issues that most Americans don't actually care about too much and then have dragged the Democrats into enough of these wedge issue arguments that most Americans just tune out of politics altogether, and every time they pop back up to listen and they see Joe Biden speaking looking like he's struggling to even keep his eyes open, they start to wonder if maybe the Republicans have a point. You need to actually look around, talk to Republicans, hear why they hate Democrats so much, hear why they are willing to vote for people they KNOW are terrible just because they hate Democrats so much. You need to understand that Democrats are in BIG BIG trouble. You don't need to agree with Republicans on everything, but you need to be willing to see that the Democrats need to change because if the Democrats keep getting told that they are doing everything right and they keep losing, then nothing is ever going to get any better. That's literally not what you said. You said that the Democrats can't simply state that the Republicans are proposing racist policies and trust the people to vote against racism, which is right, but you said it from a stance of pro-racism. Your objection was that they were calling out racists and you were proud that you personally never do that. The Democrats weren't wrong that the Republicans are being super fucking racist, they were wrong to think that the people would care. You know what I would do instead? Since I can't get you to understand why throwing the word Racist around gets you negative points with voters, let me tell you what I would do instead. I would propose alternative policy. I would simply go in front of congress, and I would introduce an alternative bill that deals with whatever issue the Republicans are proposing and I would do it in a way that isn't racist as fuck. Instead of focusing everything on illegal immigrants I would introduce bills to punish companies for hiring illegal immigrants, I would introduce new taxes on companies that outsource jobs like Bernie wants to do. I would take the issue and I would spin towards something I wanted done, because at the end of the day, the American public most of all just wants to see things getting done. But when all you do all day is stand at the podium and call people names, that just makes it look like you're wasting everyone's time and more importantly everyone's money. Throwing the word racist around gets you negative points with racists. What you're apparently incapable of understanding is that you're not meant to be racist. It's a bad thing. That's why I'm blaming the American people for being racist and saying that people attacking the democrat platform for being a little racist are missing the point. No Kwark it doesn't. There are dozens of people I talk to, family members I talk to, that are not racist people, that get fed up of being called racist because they support a policy that Republicans support. If they voted for Republicans, at best they ignore their racism and bigotry because they prioritise their own perceived gain over that. I guess you can try to explain yourself around that, but at the end of the day youre fine with hurting other people because you got mad someone called you "racist" (proving the point funnily enough). Guns, and Taxes. That's 90% of why my family members are Republicans. Guns and Taxes. That's literally it. Explain to me how that makes them racist? Whenever we get into arguments about politics at family get togethers, they actually support more Democratic policies than they support Republican policies, but because Guns and Taxes is what they care about the MOST, that's who they vote for. This is a huge reason why I can't stand single issue voters, but that's another topic. Whenever they get roped into all of the trans arguments, and topics about immigration, they sit back and say that they don't want anything to do with any of that. We can't get them to care, because these are simply issues they don't care about. Now what do you think would happen if I called them racist at one of these gatherings for supporting the Republicans? Nothing. Nothing except a big fight about how could I call them racist when their parents are 1st generation Mexican and they have a wife who is black? Nothing changes about any of their political opinions except now I've just made the entire get together one big hostile place, where I'm now the asshole for ruining everyone's good time. Do you get it now? Do you get how throwing around the word racist doesn't do anything to help anybody? Being willing to sell out people of a different race because of gun ownership fearmongering is a pretty racist thing to do. Voting for racists pledging to enact racism is a racist thing to do, even if you didn’t vote for them specifically for the racism. It’s a dealbreaker for non racists. You need to make concessions somewhere Kwark, because in a Democracy, you can't afford to isolate every single person that doesn't conform exactly to your EXTREMELY strict rules about what makes them a racist or not. Because like I said. The Democrats are losers. They've lost to Donald Trump twice now, and even if the Democrats somehow manage to win in 2028, we still have 30 years at minimum of a Supreme Court that is stacked full of Republicans. At some point you need to step back and ask yourself if you're tired of your side losing, because I sure as hell am.
I absolutely don’t need to make concessions, least of all to the lines of you. I don’t owe you shit. We’re not on the same side.
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On February 05 2025 07:19 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2025 07:15 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 05 2025 07:11 KwarK wrote:On February 05 2025 07:04 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 05 2025 06:51 Luolis wrote:On February 05 2025 06:29 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 05 2025 06:25 KwarK wrote:On February 05 2025 06:24 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 05 2025 06:18 KwarK wrote:On February 05 2025 06:12 Vindicare605 wrote:
[quote]
No Kwark, the point is that there are millions of every day normal rational people who look at the two parties as equally bad. The number of people who are actually happy about what Trump is doing with Immigration and Tarrifs are low compared to the number of Americans who voted for him just because they felt like something had to change when the Democrats were in power.
You need to understand that there are Americans who vote for Republicans just because and I mean JUST because they think the Democrats are trying to take their guns away. I'm not even kidding, there are millions of Americans that do this.
The Republicans have managed to sway the public into arguing over wedge issues that most Americans don't actually care about too much and then have dragged the Democrats into enough of these wedge issue arguments that most Americans just tune out of politics altogether, and every time they pop back up to listen and they see Joe Biden speaking looking like he's struggling to even keep his eyes open, they start to wonder if maybe the Republicans have a point.
You need to actually look around, talk to Republicans, hear why they hate Democrats so much, hear why they are willing to vote for people they KNOW are terrible just because they hate Democrats so much.
You need to understand that Democrats are in BIG BIG trouble. You don't need to agree with Republicans on everything, but you need to be willing to see that the Democrats need to change because if the Democrats keep getting told that they are doing everything right and they keep losing, then nothing is ever going to get any better.
That's literally not what you said. You said that the Democrats can't simply state that the Republicans are proposing racist policies and trust the people to vote against racism, which is right, but you said it from a stance of pro-racism. Your objection was that they were calling out racists and you were proud that you personally never do that. The Democrats weren't wrong that the Republicans are being super fucking racist, they were wrong to think that the people would care. You know what I would do instead? Since I can't get you to understand why throwing the word Racist around gets you negative points with voters, let me tell you what I would do instead. I would propose alternative policy. I would simply go in front of congress, and I would introduce an alternative bill that deals with whatever issue the Republicans are proposing and I would do it in a way that isn't racist as fuck. Instead of focusing everything on illegal immigrants I would introduce bills to punish companies for hiring illegal immigrants, I would introduce new taxes on companies that outsource jobs like Bernie wants to do. I would take the issue and I would spin towards something I wanted done, because at the end of the day, the American public most of all just wants to see things getting done. But when all you do all day is stand at the podium and call people names, that just makes it look like you're wasting everyone's time and more importantly everyone's money. Throwing the word racist around gets you negative points with racists. What you're apparently incapable of understanding is that you're not meant to be racist. It's a bad thing. That's why I'm blaming the American people for being racist and saying that people attacking the democrat platform for being a little racist are missing the point. No Kwark it doesn't. There are dozens of people I talk to, family members I talk to, that are not racist people, that get fed up of being called racist because they support a policy that Republicans support. If they voted for Republicans, at best they ignore their racism and bigotry because they prioritise their own perceived gain over that. I guess you can try to explain yourself around that, but at the end of the day youre fine with hurting other people because you got mad someone called you "racist" (proving the point funnily enough). Guns, and Taxes. That's 90% of why my family members are Republicans. Guns and Taxes. That's literally it. Explain to me how that makes them racist? Whenever we get into arguments about politics at family get togethers, they actually support more Democratic policies than they support Republican policies, but because Guns and Taxes is what they care about the MOST, that's who they vote for. This is a huge reason why I can't stand single issue voters, but that's another topic. Whenever they get roped into all of the trans arguments, and topics about immigration, they sit back and say that they don't want anything to do with any of that. We can't get them to care, because these are simply issues they don't care about. Now what do you think would happen if I called them racist at one of these gatherings for supporting the Republicans? Nothing. Nothing except a big fight about how could I call them racist when their parents are 1st generation Mexican and they have a wife who is black? Nothing changes about any of their political opinions except now I've just made the entire get together one big hostile place, where I'm now the asshole for ruining everyone's good time. Do you get it now? Do you get how throwing around the word racist doesn't do anything to help anybody? Being willing to sell out people of a different race because of gun ownership fearmongering is a pretty racist thing to do. Voting for racists pledging to enact racism is a racist thing to do, even if you didn’t vote for them specifically for the racism. It’s a dealbreaker for non racists. You need to make concessions somewhere Kwark, because in a Democracy, you can't afford to isolate every single person that doesn't conform exactly to your EXTREMELY strict rules about what makes them a racist or not. Because like I said. The Democrats are losers. They've lost to Donald Trump twice now, and even if the Democrats somehow manage to win in 2028, we still have 30 years at minimum of a Supreme Court that is stacked full of Republicans. At some point you need to step back and ask yourself if you're tired of your side losing, because I sure as hell am. I absolutely don’t need to make concessions, least of all to the lines of you. I don’t owe you shit. We’re not on the same side.
Holy shit, its the Democrat party platform
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On February 05 2025 07:20 Zambrah wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2025 07:19 KwarK wrote:On February 05 2025 07:15 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 05 2025 07:11 KwarK wrote:On February 05 2025 07:04 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 05 2025 06:51 Luolis wrote:On February 05 2025 06:29 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 05 2025 06:25 KwarK wrote:On February 05 2025 06:24 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 05 2025 06:18 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
That's literally not what you said. You said that the Democrats can't simply state that the Republicans are proposing racist policies and trust the people to vote against racism, which is right, but you said it from a stance of pro-racism. Your objection was that they were calling out racists and you were proud that you personally never do that.
The Democrats weren't wrong that the Republicans are being super fucking racist, they were wrong to think that the people would care. You know what I would do instead? Since I can't get you to understand why throwing the word Racist around gets you negative points with voters, let me tell you what I would do instead. I would propose alternative policy. I would simply go in front of congress, and I would introduce an alternative bill that deals with whatever issue the Republicans are proposing and I would do it in a way that isn't racist as fuck. Instead of focusing everything on illegal immigrants I would introduce bills to punish companies for hiring illegal immigrants, I would introduce new taxes on companies that outsource jobs like Bernie wants to do. I would take the issue and I would spin towards something I wanted done, because at the end of the day, the American public most of all just wants to see things getting done. But when all you do all day is stand at the podium and call people names, that just makes it look like you're wasting everyone's time and more importantly everyone's money. Throwing the word racist around gets you negative points with racists. What you're apparently incapable of understanding is that you're not meant to be racist. It's a bad thing. That's why I'm blaming the American people for being racist and saying that people attacking the democrat platform for being a little racist are missing the point. No Kwark it doesn't. There are dozens of people I talk to, family members I talk to, that are not racist people, that get fed up of being called racist because they support a policy that Republicans support. If they voted for Republicans, at best they ignore their racism and bigotry because they prioritise their own perceived gain over that. I guess you can try to explain yourself around that, but at the end of the day youre fine with hurting other people because you got mad someone called you "racist" (proving the point funnily enough). Guns, and Taxes. That's 90% of why my family members are Republicans. Guns and Taxes. That's literally it. Explain to me how that makes them racist? Whenever we get into arguments about politics at family get togethers, they actually support more Democratic policies than they support Republican policies, but because Guns and Taxes is what they care about the MOST, that's who they vote for. This is a huge reason why I can't stand single issue voters, but that's another topic. Whenever they get roped into all of the trans arguments, and topics about immigration, they sit back and say that they don't want anything to do with any of that. We can't get them to care, because these are simply issues they don't care about. Now what do you think would happen if I called them racist at one of these gatherings for supporting the Republicans? Nothing. Nothing except a big fight about how could I call them racist when their parents are 1st generation Mexican and they have a wife who is black? Nothing changes about any of their political opinions except now I've just made the entire get together one big hostile place, where I'm now the asshole for ruining everyone's good time. Do you get it now? Do you get how throwing around the word racist doesn't do anything to help anybody? Being willing to sell out people of a different race because of gun ownership fearmongering is a pretty racist thing to do. Voting for racists pledging to enact racism is a racist thing to do, even if you didn’t vote for them specifically for the racism. It’s a dealbreaker for non racists. You need to make concessions somewhere Kwark, because in a Democracy, you can't afford to isolate every single person that doesn't conform exactly to your EXTREMELY strict rules about what makes them a racist or not. Because like I said. The Democrats are losers. They've lost to Donald Trump twice now, and even if the Democrats somehow manage to win in 2028, we still have 30 years at minimum of a Supreme Court that is stacked full of Republicans. At some point you need to step back and ask yourself if you're tired of your side losing, because I sure as hell am. I absolutely don’t need to make concessions, least of all to the lines of you. I don’t owe you shit. We’re not on the same side. Holy shit, its the Democrat party platform
Agreed. Glad he's finally coming out and saying it.
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On February 05 2025 07:15 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2025 07:11 KwarK wrote:On February 05 2025 07:04 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 05 2025 06:51 Luolis wrote:On February 05 2025 06:29 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 05 2025 06:25 KwarK wrote:On February 05 2025 06:24 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 05 2025 06:18 KwarK wrote:On February 05 2025 06:12 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 05 2025 06:04 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
The point you’re making here is that it doesn’t matter how racist the white nationalists get, it’s important to never call them racist. Just sit down with them like rational people and discuss just how many brown people should be sent to the camps. The democrats made the mistake of calling the white nationalists racist. You’re absolutely right. They thought voters would understand that they shouldn’t be voting for the racists but they didn’t have the pulse of the American public at all. No Kwark, the point is that there are millions of every day normal rational people who look at the two parties as equally bad. The number of people who are actually happy about what Trump is doing with Immigration and Tarrifs are low compared to the number of Americans who voted for him just because they felt like something had to change when the Democrats were in power. You need to understand that there are Americans who vote for Republicans just because and I mean JUST because they think the Democrats are trying to take their guns away. I'm not even kidding, there are millions of Americans that do this. The Republicans have managed to sway the public into arguing over wedge issues that most Americans don't actually care about too much and then have dragged the Democrats into enough of these wedge issue arguments that most Americans just tune out of politics altogether, and every time they pop back up to listen and they see Joe Biden speaking looking like he's struggling to even keep his eyes open, they start to wonder if maybe the Republicans have a point. You need to actually look around, talk to Republicans, hear why they hate Democrats so much, hear why they are willing to vote for people they KNOW are terrible just because they hate Democrats so much. You need to understand that Democrats are in BIG BIG trouble. You don't need to agree with Republicans on everything, but you need to be willing to see that the Democrats need to change because if the Democrats keep getting told that they are doing everything right and they keep losing, then nothing is ever going to get any better. That's literally not what you said. You said that the Democrats can't simply state that the Republicans are proposing racist policies and trust the people to vote against racism, which is right, but you said it from a stance of pro-racism. Your objection was that they were calling out racists and you were proud that you personally never do that. The Democrats weren't wrong that the Republicans are being super fucking racist, they were wrong to think that the people would care. You know what I would do instead? Since I can't get you to understand why throwing the word Racist around gets you negative points with voters, let me tell you what I would do instead. I would propose alternative policy. I would simply go in front of congress, and I would introduce an alternative bill that deals with whatever issue the Republicans are proposing and I would do it in a way that isn't racist as fuck. Instead of focusing everything on illegal immigrants I would introduce bills to punish companies for hiring illegal immigrants, I would introduce new taxes on companies that outsource jobs like Bernie wants to do. I would take the issue and I would spin towards something I wanted done, because at the end of the day, the American public most of all just wants to see things getting done. But when all you do all day is stand at the podium and call people names, that just makes it look like you're wasting everyone's time and more importantly everyone's money. Throwing the word racist around gets you negative points with racists. What you're apparently incapable of understanding is that you're not meant to be racist. It's a bad thing. That's why I'm blaming the American people for being racist and saying that people attacking the democrat platform for being a little racist are missing the point. No Kwark it doesn't. There are dozens of people I talk to, family members I talk to, that are not racist people, that get fed up of being called racist because they support a policy that Republicans support. If they voted for Republicans, at best they ignore their racism and bigotry because they prioritise their own perceived gain over that. I guess you can try to explain yourself around that, but at the end of the day youre fine with hurting other people because you got mad someone called you "racist" (proving the point funnily enough). Guns, and Taxes. That's 90% of why my family members are Republicans. Guns and Taxes. That's literally it. Explain to me how that makes them racist? Whenever we get into arguments about politics at family get togethers, they actually support more Democratic policies than they support Republican policies, but because Guns and Taxes is what they care about the MOST, that's who they vote for. This is a huge reason why I can't stand single issue voters, but that's another topic. Whenever they get roped into all of the trans arguments, and topics about immigration, they sit back and say that they don't want anything to do with any of that. We can't get them to care, because these are simply issues they don't care about. Now what do you think would happen if I called them racist at one of these gatherings for supporting the Republicans? Nothing. Nothing except a big fight about how could I call them racist when their parents are 1st generation Mexican and they have a wife who is black? Nothing changes about any of their political opinions except now I've just made the entire get together one big hostile place, where I'm now the asshole for ruining everyone's good time. Do you get it now? Do you get how throwing around the word racist doesn't do anything to help anybody? Being willing to sell out people of a different race because of gun ownership fearmongering is a pretty racist thing to do. Voting for racists pledging to enact racism is a racist thing to do, even if you didn’t vote for them specifically for the racism. It’s a dealbreaker for non racists. You need to make concessions somewhere Kwark, because in a Democracy, you can't afford to isolate every single person that doesn't conform exactly to your EXTREMELY strict rules about what makes them a racist or not. Because like I said. The Democrats are losers. They've lost to Donald Trump twice now, and even if the Democrats somehow manage to win in 2028, we still have 30 years at minimum of a Supreme Court that is stacked full of Republicans. At some point you need to step back and ask yourself if you're tired of your side losing, because I sure as hell am.
Whats the concession? Sell out brown people, LGBTQ+ and other minorities? To me it seems like theres a huge portion of Americans who will not vote for you, unless you actively want to throw them in the oven (exaggerated for making a point). Democrats have been treating Republicans with kid gloves and tried to build a bridge with the so-called "sensible republicans", yet all that has gotten for you is an even more extreme Republican party in power, and a huge shift in the Overton window to the right.
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EPT
