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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread |
On June 25 2018 05:25 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2018 05:07 zlefin wrote:On June 25 2018 03:55 JimmiC wrote:On June 25 2018 03:32 zlefin wrote:On June 25 2018 02:55 JimmiC wrote:On June 25 2018 02:02 Sermokala wrote:On June 25 2018 01:57 KwarK wrote:
Danglars, press secretary is not a protected class. Yes the government in in charge of deciding who we should and shouldn't cheer being denied service. On June 25 2018 01:59 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On June 25 2018 01:56 Danglars wrote:On June 24 2018 21:44 Plansix wrote:
The most irritating part is that Sanders tweeting about it is a violation of government regulations. They are not allowed to use their position to gain favorable treatment or threaten/cause retaliation. Of course they don’t give a shit, but it is depressing. The owner of Red Hen is going to face a lot of harassment. I think you really have to stretch to say this is "using her position" to "gain favorable treatment or threaten/cause retaliation." You might as well say media are prohibited from reporting on what happened, since they are doing so against a victim that cannot post her own side about what happened. Strangely enough, the "bake that cake" side is strangely silent to say the owner should have been forced to serve the press secretary if there was any justice in the world. Well it was quite the opposite: If people are okay with bakers not baking cakes for gay ceremonies, then those people better not complain about restauranteurs not serving SHS. And then those people who complain about people not baking cakes for gay ceremonies then those people should complain when other people are denied service. This is the big problem with american politics. There are so many people doing wrong on either side and neither side is trying to do better, they just simply point out how bad the other side is and the other side does the same. The real problem in american politics is not that the Dems or Republicans are good, it is that both are shit. while somewhat true; it's also the case that one is very much worse than the other; so I'd say one side is trying to do better, and that's the one that is in fact considerably better (but still poor). But both sides feel that way and focus on the other sides problems. They need to fix their own shit so badly. just becuase both sides feel that way doesn't mean one of them isn't more wrong. not all feelings/opinions are equally justified. you're making a false equivalence, and that's not constructive either. one side IS doing far more to fix their own shit; you're ignoring that and lumping in two different degrees of badness. Nope that is all you, I have put no value or claimed equality. I have simply said that I wish both sides would take responsibility for what they or their members are doing and also work toward what they feel is best instead of just fighting each other. And for some reason you think this puts me against you and are now trying to fight with me... There is no hope.
Rather bizarre that you say it's a big problem in American politics considering our official opposition's duty is to criticize the leading party on how badly they're doing something.
And I don't think criticizing the current group in power is in any way a problem in politics.
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I'm curious about the rest of this interview because from this clip the former Secretary of Homeland Security says family detention was needed then and necessary now (and family separation, sometimes? A little unclear). Notable line: "we can't have catch and release."
On Fox News Sunday, host Chris Wallace interviewed former DHS Secretary Jeh Johnson, who said that under President Barack Obama, they did detain some children alone and some families together, two policies for which Donald Trump has been under considerable fire.
After President Trump signed an executive order last week to stop the separation of families at the border, the administration took new fire for the idea that families would be detained together. Rep. Louis “The secretary of Homeland Security has lost all morals when it comes to protecting children and enforcing our immigration laws.”
It is also something for which the ACLU blasted President Obama years ago.
On Sunday, former Secretary Johnson told Chris Wallace that they thought it was necessary at the time, and that it is still is.
Wallace showed now infamous photos from 2014 of children in detention and asked if the Obama administration had handled things “so well.”
“Without a doubt the images, and the reality, from 2014, just like 2018, are not pretty,” said Johnson. “We expanded it, I freely admit it was controversial, we believed it was necessary at the time, I still believe it is necessary to remain a certain capability for families.”
Johnson also addressed another phrase that has come up many times in the last week, saying directly that “we can’t have catch and release” and stating that under his DHS in the Obama administration they “deported or repatriated” over a million people.
The “zero tolerance” policy of the Trump administration prosecutes all persons referred by DHS for attempting to cross the border outside of a port of entry. It was announced by Attorney General Jeff Sessions and currently remains in place.
https://www.mediaite.com/tv/obama-dhs-sec-jeh-johnson-freely-admits-they-detained-children-families-we-believed-it-was-necessary/
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On June 25 2018 06:17 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2018 06:02 WolfintheSheep wrote:On June 25 2018 05:25 JimmiC wrote:On June 25 2018 05:07 zlefin wrote:On June 25 2018 03:55 JimmiC wrote:On June 25 2018 03:32 zlefin wrote:On June 25 2018 02:55 JimmiC wrote:On June 25 2018 02:02 Sermokala wrote:On June 25 2018 01:57 KwarK wrote:
Danglars, press secretary is not a protected class. Yes the government in in charge of deciding who we should and shouldn't cheer being denied service. On June 25 2018 01:59 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On June 25 2018 01:56 Danglars wrote:[quote] https://twitter.com/PressSec/status/1010536237457924096I think you really have to stretch to say this is "using her position" to "gain favorable treatment or threaten/cause retaliation." You might as well say media are prohibited from reporting on what happened, since they are doing so against a victim that cannot post her own side about what happened. Strangely enough, the "bake that cake" side is strangely silent to say the owner should have been forced to serve the press secretary if there was any justice in the world. Well it was quite the opposite: If people are okay with bakers not baking cakes for gay ceremonies, then those people better not complain about restauranteurs not serving SHS. And then those people who complain about people not baking cakes for gay ceremonies then those people should complain when other people are denied service. This is the big problem with american politics. There are so many people doing wrong on either side and neither side is trying to do better, they just simply point out how bad the other side is and the other side does the same. The real problem in american politics is not that the Dems or Republicans are good, it is that both are shit. while somewhat true; it's also the case that one is very much worse than the other; so I'd say one side is trying to do better, and that's the one that is in fact considerably better (but still poor). But both sides feel that way and focus on the other sides problems. They need to fix their own shit so badly. just becuase both sides feel that way doesn't mean one of them isn't more wrong. not all feelings/opinions are equally justified. you're making a false equivalence, and that's not constructive either. one side IS doing far more to fix their own shit; you're ignoring that and lumping in two different degrees of badness. Nope that is all you, I have put no value or claimed equality. I have simply said that I wish both sides would take responsibility for what they or their members are doing and also work toward what they feel is best instead of just fighting each other. And for some reason you think this puts me against you and are now trying to fight with me... There is no hope. Rather bizarre that you say it's a big problem in American politics considering our official opposition's duty is to criticize the leading party on how badly they're doing something. And I don't think criticizing the current group in power is in any way a problem in politics. If you are criticizing their policy and offering up solutions that you think are better all for you. Playing around in the mud all day accomplishes nothing. And to the other, that others reached the same conclusion does not make it right, it shows how many people here are ready to swing at anything. I wouldn't be surprised if both republicans and dem's were mad at it.
perhaps; or it could be that you're simply wrong and unwilling to own up to it; which is also a very common behavior; and is indeed a more common behavior than people ready to swing at anything imho.
perhaps the politicians are just like you, and like all of us; they're not criticizing their own enough because they refuse to accept they were wrong.
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On June 25 2018 03:18 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +Trump calls for deporting illegal immigrants with 'no judges or court cases'
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“We cannot allow all of these people to invade our Country. When somebody comes in, we must immediately, with no Judges or Court Cases, bring them back from where they came. Our system is a mockery to good immigration policy and Law and Order. Most children come without parents,” Trump said Sunday on Twitter.
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U.S. immigration law provides certain rights for undocumented immigrants arrested by Immigration and Customs Enforcement. In most cases, they are allowed a full hearing before an immigration judge before being deported. www.cnbc.comInteresting take on 'Law and Order'. At least in the Starship Troopers universe people got show trials and service guaranteed citizenship. Trump can't even offer that.
Yeah that's not going to happen. The president doesn't have the power to mandate that issue & the court system will strike that down if he tries to, due to the system of checks & balances that continues to work as it always has in this country.
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On June 25 2018 07:01 A3th3r wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2018 03:18 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Trump calls for deporting illegal immigrants with 'no judges or court cases'
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“We cannot allow all of these people to invade our Country. When somebody comes in, we must immediately, with no Judges or Court Cases, bring them back from where they came. Our system is a mockery to good immigration policy and Law and Order. Most children come without parents,” Trump said Sunday on Twitter.
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U.S. immigration law provides certain rights for undocumented immigrants arrested by Immigration and Customs Enforcement. In most cases, they are allowed a full hearing before an immigration judge before being deported. www.cnbc.comInteresting take on 'Law and Order'. At least in the Starship Troopers universe people got show trials and service guaranteed citizenship. Trump can't even offer that. Yeah that's not going to happen. The president doesn't have the power to mandate that issue & the court system will strike that down if he tries to, due to the system of checks & balances that continues to work as it always has in this country.
Have they though? What (Trump era) examples are you thinking of?
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On June 25 2018 07:15 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2018 07:01 A3th3r wrote:On June 25 2018 03:18 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Trump calls for deporting illegal immigrants with 'no judges or court cases'
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“We cannot allow all of these people to invade our Country. When somebody comes in, we must immediately, with no Judges or Court Cases, bring them back from where they came. Our system is a mockery to good immigration policy and Law and Order. Most children come without parents,” Trump said Sunday on Twitter.
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U.S. immigration law provides certain rights for undocumented immigrants arrested by Immigration and Customs Enforcement. In most cases, they are allowed a full hearing before an immigration judge before being deported. www.cnbc.comInteresting take on 'Law and Order'. At least in the Starship Troopers universe people got show trials and service guaranteed citizenship. Trump can't even offer that. Yeah that's not going to happen. The president doesn't have the power to mandate that issue & the court system will strike that down if he tries to, due to the system of checks & balances that continues to work as it always has in this country. Have they though? What (Trump era) examples are you thinking of?
Muslim ban is the obvious one.
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On June 25 2018 07:26 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2018 06:40 zlefin wrote:On June 25 2018 06:17 JimmiC wrote:On June 25 2018 06:02 WolfintheSheep wrote:On June 25 2018 05:25 JimmiC wrote:On June 25 2018 05:07 zlefin wrote:On June 25 2018 03:55 JimmiC wrote:On June 25 2018 03:32 zlefin wrote:On June 25 2018 02:55 JimmiC wrote:On June 25 2018 02:02 Sermokala wrote:
[quote]
Yes the government in in charge of deciding who we should and shouldn't cheer being denied service.
[quote]
And then those people who complain about people not baking cakes for gay ceremonies then those people should complain when other people are denied service. This is the big problem with american politics. There are so many people doing wrong on either side and neither side is trying to do better, they just simply point out how bad the other side is and the other side does the same. The real problem in american politics is not that the Dems or Republicans are good, it is that both are shit. while somewhat true; it's also the case that one is very much worse than the other; so I'd say one side is trying to do better, and that's the one that is in fact considerably better (but still poor). But both sides feel that way and focus on the other sides problems. They need to fix their own shit so badly. just becuase both sides feel that way doesn't mean one of them isn't more wrong. not all feelings/opinions are equally justified. you're making a false equivalence, and that's not constructive either. one side IS doing far more to fix their own shit; you're ignoring that and lumping in two different degrees of badness. Nope that is all you, I have put no value or claimed equality. I have simply said that I wish both sides would take responsibility for what they or their members are doing and also work toward what they feel is best instead of just fighting each other. And for some reason you think this puts me against you and are now trying to fight with me... There is no hope. Rather bizarre that you say it's a big problem in American politics considering our official opposition's duty is to criticize the leading party on how badly they're doing something. And I don't think criticizing the current group in power is in any way a problem in politics. If you are criticizing their policy and offering up solutions that you think are better all for you. Playing around in the mud all day accomplishes nothing. And to the other, that others reached the same conclusion does not make it right, it shows how many people here are ready to swing at anything. I wouldn't be surprised if both republicans and dem's were mad at it. perhaps; or it could be that you're simply wrong and unwilling to own up to it; which is also a very common behavior; and is indeed a more common behavior than people ready to swing at anything imho. perhaps the politicians are just like you, and like all of us; they're not criticizing their own enough because they refuse to accept they were wrong. Interesting point. Now what am I wrong in this case? Bad timing that lead you to believe something that I didn't mean and get you all worked up? My bad.
apology accepted.
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On June 25 2018 07:21 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2018 07:15 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 25 2018 07:01 A3th3r wrote:On June 25 2018 03:18 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Trump calls for deporting illegal immigrants with 'no judges or court cases'
...
“We cannot allow all of these people to invade our Country. When somebody comes in, we must immediately, with no Judges or Court Cases, bring them back from where they came. Our system is a mockery to good immigration policy and Law and Order. Most children come without parents,” Trump said Sunday on Twitter.
...
U.S. immigration law provides certain rights for undocumented immigrants arrested by Immigration and Customs Enforcement. In most cases, they are allowed a full hearing before an immigration judge before being deported. www.cnbc.comInteresting take on 'Law and Order'. At least in the Starship Troopers universe people got show trials and service guaranteed citizenship. Trump can't even offer that. Yeah that's not going to happen. The president doesn't have the power to mandate that issue & the court system will strike that down if he tries to, due to the system of checks & balances that continues to work as it always has in this country. Have they though? What (Trump era) examples are you thinking of? Muslim ban is the obvious one.
It hasn't been ruled on (SCOTUS) and as far as we know it's being used right now unconstitutionally. How is that obviously the system of checks and balances working?
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This will end well! The Democratic congresswoman from California claimed God was on her side and encouraged those assembled to keep the pressure up on officials through harassment and protest.
Recently, protestors spit on Trump-supporting Florida Attorney General Pam Bondi. The Press Secretary was prevented from dining at a restaurant. Before her, the Department of Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen was also driven out of a restaurant. This is all roughly a week past the anniversary of when a crazed Bernie supporter opened fire at a Republican baseball game and nearly killed Representative Steve Scalise.
Mob action against political opponents should be universally condemned. If you want to talk fascism, the segments of the American left doing this are dancing very close to it now.
Trump's gone in two and a half to six and a half years. The memories of this kind of stuff will endure.
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On June 25 2018 08:10 Danglars wrote:https://twitter.com/RealSaavedra/status/1010981944056664064This will end well! The Democratic congresswoman from California claimed God was on her side and encouraged those assembled to keep the pressure up on officials through harassment and protest. Recently, protestors spit on Trump-supporting Florida Attorney General Pam Bondi. The Press Secretary was prevented from dining at a restaurant. Before her, the Department of Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen was also driven out of a restaurant. This is all roughly a week past the anniversary of when a crazed Bernie supporter opened fire at a Republican baseball game and nearly killed Representative Steve Scalise. Mob action against political opponents should be universally condemned. If you want to talk fascism, the segments of the American left doing this are dancing very close to it now. https://twitter.com/davidaxelrod/status/1010917905586970625https://twitter.com/MeghanMcCain/status/1010998739203493888Trump's gone in two and a half to six and a half years. The memories of this kind of stuff will endure.
roflmao. I actually can't take this seriously at all. When I got to "fascism" I actually did a spit take.
You don't get to fuck society over and then go enjoy their bounty in front of them. If you want to be oppressive, exploitative, inhumane, etc... You have to order in or do it inside the walls of your thiefdoms. This is exploitation 101 stuff.
Like Marie Antoinette going to public eatery and declaring the starving masses fascists for kicking her ass out. Give me a break lol.
Public opinion is a thing. Conservatives are not a protected class.
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On June 25 2018 08:10 Danglars wrote:https://twitter.com/RealSaavedra/status/1010981944056664064This will end well! The Democratic congresswoman from California claimed God was on her side and encouraged those assembled to keep the pressure up on officials through harassment and protest. Recently, protestors spit on Trump-supporting Florida Attorney General Pam Bondi. The Press Secretary was prevented from dining at a restaurant. Before her, the Department of Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen was also driven out of a restaurant. This is all roughly a week past the anniversary of when a crazed Bernie supporter opened fire at a Republican baseball game and nearly killed Representative Steve Scalise. Mob action against political opponents should be universally condemned. If you want to talk fascism, the segments of the American left doing this are dancing very close to it now. https://twitter.com/davidaxelrod/status/1010917905586970625https://twitter.com/MeghanMcCain/status/1010998739203493888Trump's gone in two and a half to six and a half years. The memories of this kind of stuff will endure.
It's about time the Trump administration got the treatment it deserves. The fact that people are willing to organise against it gives me hope that your country can pull itself together (of course, that would be its death in your eyes). Actual fascists shouldn't be normalized. Trump, and his enablers, shouldn't be normalized. These acts of protest aren't fascism, they are the social immune system starting to work against it. Perfect timing too, given Trump's recent calling for the abandonment of due process 
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On June 25 2018 08:10 Danglars wrote:https://twitter.com/RealSaavedra/status/1010981944056664064This will end well! The Democratic congresswoman from California claimed God was on her side and encouraged those assembled to keep the pressure up on officials through harassment and protest. Recently, protestors spit on Trump-supporting Florida Attorney General Pam Bondi. The Press Secretary was prevented from dining at a restaurant. Before her, the Department of Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen was also driven out of a restaurant. This is all roughly a week past the anniversary of when a crazed Bernie supporter opened fire at a Republican baseball game and nearly killed Representative Steve Scalise. Mob action against political opponents should be universally condemned. If you want to talk fascism, the segments of the American left doing this are dancing very close to it now. https://twitter.com/davidaxelrod/status/1010917905586970625https://twitter.com/MeghanMcCain/status/1010998739203493888Trump's gone in two and a half to six and a half years. The memories of this kind of stuff will endure.
I can assure you that memories of Trump will endure lol.
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On June 25 2018 08:10 Danglars wrote:https://twitter.com/RealSaavedra/status/1010981944056664064This will end well! The Democratic congresswoman from California claimed God was on her side and encouraged those assembled to keep the pressure up on officials through harassment and protest. Recently, protestors spit on Trump-supporting Florida Attorney General Pam Bondi. The Press Secretary was prevented from dining at a restaurant. Before her, the Department of Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen was also driven out of a restaurant. This is all roughly a week past the anniversary of when a crazed Bernie supporter opened fire at a Republican baseball game and nearly killed Representative Steve Scalise. Mob action against political opponents should be universally condemned. If you want to talk fascism, the segments of the American left doing this are dancing very close to it now.https://twitter.com/davidaxelrod/status/1010917905586970625https://twitter.com/MeghanMcCain/status/1010998739203493888Trump's gone in two and a half to six and a half years. The memories of this kind of stuff will endure.
You cannot be serious.
I know who I sound like when I say this, but you can't oppress massive groups of people based on their skin color, geographical location, sexuality, age or birthplace and then call them fascists for protesting.
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On June 25 2018 08:10 Danglars wrote:https://twitter.com/RealSaavedra/status/1010981944056664064This will end well! The Democratic congresswoman from California claimed God was on her side and encouraged those assembled to keep the pressure up on officials through harassment and protest. Recently, protestors spit on Trump-supporting Florida Attorney General Pam Bondi. The Press Secretary was prevented from dining at a restaurant. Before her, the Department of Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen was also driven out of a restaurant. This is all roughly a week past the anniversary of when a crazed Bernie supporter opened fire at a Republican baseball game and nearly killed Representative Steve Scalise. Mob action against political opponents should be universally condemned. If you want to talk fascism, the segments of the American left doing this are dancing very close to it now. https://twitter.com/davidaxelrod/status/1010917905586970625https://twitter.com/MeghanMcCain/status/1010998739203493888Trump's gone in two and a half to six and a half years. The memories of this kind of stuff will endure.
Hell... It's about time.
I wish this public pushback had started earlier, but better now than never. As long as it's non-violent, I fully condone it.
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United States24682 Posts
Be careful what you wish for everyone. A few years in the future when, perhaps, when Democrats control much of the government, and many conservative Americans are unhappy with the state of politics, there may be a sudden push for any establishment operated by a conservative to never serve representatives of the government. The conservative pundits will say "this is exactly how the previous administration was treated," the liberal pundits will say, "that was different, our party isn't being evil!" and people in the middle will sigh and say, "I knew this would happen."
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On June 25 2018 09:18 micronesia wrote:
Be careful what you wish for everyone. A few years in the future when, perhaps, when Democrats control much of the government, and many conservative Americans are unhappy with the state of politics, there may be a sudden push for any establishment operated by a conservative to never serve representatives of the government. The conservative pundits will say "this is exactly how the previous administration was treated," the liberal pundits will say, "that was different, our party isn't being evil!" and people in the middle will sigh and say, "I knew this would happen."
This reminds me of the "the left made me a Nazi" argument. Goes something like "Well they started it" which besides being grossly wrong, is something I thought kids were taught as children doesn't excuse their behavior.
There is no middle ground with oppression and exploitation, you're either on the side of the oppressor or the oppressed, the exploiter or exploited. The "middle" in the situation you describe is most certainly an argument in favor of the oppressors.
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United States24682 Posts
You should understand I'm not trying to defend the right on this issue. I just think they won't understand why the situation is different in the future, regardless of how justified the current protesters actually are.
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EPT
