EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 333
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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Ayaz2810
United States2763 Posts
On June 23 2018 23:13 mahrgell wrote: 187 out of 187,000 would be 0.1%. But I feel I'm missing something here. 187/187,000 = .001. Bust out your calculator. | ||
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zlefin
United States7689 Posts
On June 23 2018 23:50 Ayaz2810 wrote: 187/187,000 = .001. Bust out your calculator. .001 is not the same as .001% you're just wrong on the math. 187 of 187,000 is 0.1% | ||
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Excludos
Norway8230 Posts
On June 23 2018 23:50 Ayaz2810 wrote: 187/187,000 = .001. Bust out your calculator. 0.001 == 0.1% last I checked | ||
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JonnyBNoHo
United States6277 Posts
On June 23 2018 11:27 gobbledydook wrote: Regardless of whether illegal immigrants commit more or less crime, ignoring the law is an affront to justice. If you believe anyone who enters America should be allowed to stay, then campaign so that the law reflects your wishes. (I doubt many Americans will agree with letting anyone who comes stay.) It is truly sickening to see people advocating ignoring laws and impeding law enforcement. In Australia everyone agrees that if you want in to Australia, you should do so via legal routes and anyone trying to go around the system gets kicked out. I don't know why so many people in America welcome people breaking laws and coming whenever they please. I mean sure, we could put people in jail for 5 years for listening to a song or video without paying a royalty. Copyright laws are important and stuff! We can also have the FBI conduct raids on college campuses looking for 'large groups of people violating copyright law'. There *is* such a thing as reasonableness of enforcement, particularly when it comes to low-level crimes. Keep in mind here... some of these 'illegal' immigrants have US citizen spouses, US citizen children and are running / working for legal US businesses. Some are veterans of the US military. It's absolutely mind-boggling that these people don't already have all the legal protections of citizenship (or are citizens outright) and even crazier that the penalty can be deportation. | ||
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iamthedave
England2814 Posts
Out of curiousity, how many of them do you think are MS-13 members? And the origins of the gang are well known. Just read its wikipedia page. The part about how it mostly recruits from the young is very interesting. It'd be a shame if the USA was to embrace a policy that - just for thought - created hundreds if not thousands of potential recruits by separating children from their families with potentially low chance of reuniting, giving them no real place to go and creating the perfect environment for them to turn to a seemingly welcome, supportive criminal fraternity. It's really important not to create an environment that allows dangerous gangs to thrive. I'm so glad the US is on top of this MS-13 problem and in no way helping them out. | ||
KwarK
United States43430 Posts
On June 23 2018 23:50 Ayaz2810 wrote: 187/187,000 = .001. Bust out your calculator. American education system at work here boys. | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9762 Posts
The same system that gave us tl.net's trademarked UK knife crime crisis. | ||
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NewSunshine
United States5938 Posts
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iamthedave
England2814 Posts
On June 24 2018 02:34 Jockmcplop wrote: The same system that gave us tl.net's trademarked UK knife crime crisis. Hey, I'll have you know that crisis is legitimate! My vegetable knife is getting pretty blunt, I MAY HAVE TO BUY A NEW ONE. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35165 Posts
On June 24 2018 00:54 iamthedave wrote: Out of curiousity, how many of them do you think are MS-13 members? And the origins of the gang are well known. Just read its wikipedia page. The part about how it mostly recruits from the young is very interesting. It'd be a shame if the USA was to embrace a policy that - just for thought - created hundreds if not thousands of potential recruits by separating children from their families with potentially low chance of reuniting, giving them no real place to go and creating the perfect environment for them to turn to a seemingly welcome, supportive criminal fraternity. It's really important not to create an environment that allows dangerous gangs to thrive. I'm so glad the US is on top of this MS-13 problem and in no way helping them out. I was just asking for a source, not disputing the claim. | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On June 23 2018 23:20 JimmiC wrote: The other part is pretty well known and they have basically taken over El Salvador. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS-13 They've got San Salvador. They're influential on where the police force polices. But it's a gross mischaracterization to imply they've "basically taken over El Salvador." It's about as true as saying migrant violence has taken over Sweden, or France is riddled with no-go zones at night that police dare not venture. | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On June 24 2018 02:44 NewSunshine wrote: Let's not be needlessly harsh, anyone can mess up the occasional bit of math. I don't think the error impacts his point in a way that begets a dogpile. The needless dogpiling on the American educational system by Europeans is constantly forgotten whenever flak is directed back at Europe by Americans. Screw up decimal points in division? Victim of American educational system. Exaggerating knife crime in the UK? American educational system. It just contributes the the overall tone of the forum. I'd rather have the usual suspects unafraid to act in a snide manner, just in case people think one side owns the irritable voice in politics (and to be honest, if they blame Trump for the character of their interactions). | ||
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NewSunshine
United States5938 Posts
On June 24 2018 03:00 Danglars wrote: The needless dogpiling on the American educational system by Europeans is constantly forgotten whenever flak is directed back at Europe by Americans. Screw up decimal points in division? Victim of American educational system. Exaggerating knife crime in the UK? American educational system. It just contributes the the overall tone of the forum. I'd rather have the usual suspects unafraid to act in a snide manner, just in case people think one side owns the irritable voice in politics (and to be honest, if they blame Trump for the character of their interactions). The intention of my response was to calm the discourse, not to have you respond with your best efforts to riddle the conversation with bad faith again. Please sod off. | ||
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iamthedave
England2814 Posts
On June 24 2018 02:48 Gahlo wrote: I was just asking for a source, not disputing the claim. Here you go: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS-13 Some stats pulled from other sources elsewhere in the webz: * There's estimated to be 15,000 - 20,000 ish members of MS-13 across the entirety of the United States of America, though various sources have different numbers, I've seen some quote as low as 10k. * There's about 75,000 members of the gang worldwide, almost all in south american countries * MS - 13 began in a small LA suburb with exclusively El Savadoran membership, mostly refugees banding together to defend against better established LA gangs. * Their biggest rival in El Salvador is a Mexican gang called the 18th Street * They don't work alone, having forged working relationships with other established gangs of similar ethnicity to strengthen their operations. * They still function more as a family than a typical criminal organisation, and maintain a focus on youth recruitment. There's plenty out there to read and explore. Essentially, the entire MS-13 political thing is a stupid pile of ignorance and lies; it's blaming immigrants for a problem begun in the US and exported back to El Salvador. It can't be emphasised enough that MS-13 began specifically to protect the refugees from the environment they were exposed to in LA. And it grew and grew from there into the nightmare we have today. Oh, if you want a proper journalisty source for a lot of this, this is a decent article that goes into some case-specific details as well as covers the history of the gang: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/01/01/the-teens-trapped-between-a-gang-and-the-law | ||
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micronesia
United States24752 Posts
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KwarK
United States43430 Posts
On June 24 2018 03:06 micronesia wrote: The cheap shot at the American education system was not warranted. If Kwark thinks Americans are bad at math because of their education system I'll happily enter a math-off with him. Regardless, please don't let the derail continue. The DofEd is perfectly capable of defending itself without you. With time and effort I'm sure that one day they will achieve a perfect 1% in basic literacy and numeracy among the American public. | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9762 Posts
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Sermokala
United States14073 Posts
On June 24 2018 03:22 Jockmcplop wrote: I think some people might be confusing a bit of gentle mockery with nastiness. I vote that we make Kwark UK again in order to resolve these confusions. Perhaps the different accent when he speaks the good English will help. | ||
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Apollo_Shards
1210 Posts
Im not sure how to segue this article in between the education &MS13 discussion but has anyone heard of Gabor Mate? He wrote a *super* interesting article I think should be considered required reading. "We need not be perplexed that a Donald Trump can vie for the presidency of the most powerful nation on Earth. We live in a culture where many people are hurt and, like the leaders they idolize, insulated against reality. Trauma is so commonplace that its manifestations have become the norm" | ||
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