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On August 06 2021 01:52 Mohdoo wrote: Can someone give me a reason to keep our current pressure on Cuba? What are we hoping to accomplish? What do we get out of this? This whole situation feels totally nuts. I can understand (not support) various forms of imperialism intended to essentially strengthen the US by siphoning from other countries. But the US appears to just be bullying Cuba. Does anyone still give a shit about Cuba? Who cares? I just don't get it
It honestly seems like legacy bullshit at this point. It's just a bunch of old people controlling the narrative that Cuba is a terrifying place and we shouldn't deal with them. But we deal with other far worse places on a regular.
I think one of the few arguments that may (don't act like I'm putting full stock or support into this) is that it would crash the usa's farming industry. Cuba is a large island in the middle of prime shipping routes that would get brought up to full tech and mechanization in a matter of months.
A better man would manage cubas introduction to the world and form a sort of trade treaty with the united states including massive bridge loans in exchange for economic cooperation but there is so much bad blood it may be hard to do anything together.
On August 06 2021 04:52 Sermokala wrote: I think one of the few arguments that may (don't act like I'm putting full stock or support into this) is that it would crash the usa's farming industry. Cuba is a large island in the middle of prime shipping routes that would get brought up to full tech and mechanization in a matter of months.
A better man would manage cubas introduction to the world and form a sort of trade treaty with the united states including massive bridge loans in exchange for economic cooperation but there is so much bad blood it may be hard to do anything together.
This makes the most sense of anything so far. So long as this is true, Cuba is 100% screwed forever. The US will never stop using the farming industry as a form of socialism.
As a Cuban, most of the opinions on here are very valid. But in all honesty, I would be afraid of Cuba. You think they've kept the "Soviets" out for the last 20 years or so, but nah, they're there alright. All dictatorships across the globe all have an embassy on Cuba, including North Korea.
Cuba was robbed entirely of it's wealth with Fidel Castro, and those that align themselves with his regime and dictatorship also will pillage their countries wealth, look at Venezuela for this example. Venezuela has Cuban military presence in it's country. My cousin went to Venezuela as a Cuban citizen to get schooling there and says there's cuban government presence everywhere as well.
Cuba as a country seems small, but the government knows exactly what it's doing, how to keep their population under control/brainwashed, how to rob them of their rights and wealth.
Our embargo already provides a lot of relief to the Cuban people, even if you don't think it's true. The embargo is really to stop the Cuban government from being a power house in the area, and threatening even more countries near it into dictatorships.
Here is Fidel saying they're not Communist. He said what ever people wanted to hear, lies to them, and killed anybody that didn't agree with him. The Cuban news is all propaganda, and I wouldn't pay attention to what ever the news really states about Cuba.
The interviewer asks if Fidel is either Communist or Marxist.
Our own Cuban politicians are pawns for the Fidel Castro regime, and are all huff and puff to just rile up the Cuban Republican community. Here is his nephew who was an "exile", but yet sides heavily with Trump and his antics which Trump didn't give a shit about Cuba, Obama, helped Cuba gain internet, Trump helped get it shut down.
Cuba is a really weird situation because I truly feel like I am not able to properly understand it. There appears to be extreme dishonesty from both sides of the Cuba debate.
The real honest truth is Fuck the Cuban Government. Sadly, I don't think the US can just intervene to save the Cuban people, it's already doing a lot without trying to start conflict.
On August 04 2021 22:41 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote: There are more people working harder to not mask instead of just wearing a mask and being done with it. It's like people trying to skip out on work. Just wear the mask. Get the vaccine. Whatever Olympic gymnastic floor event you have your brain doing to convince you to not do the smallest of mitigation, stop. More energy spent fighting something that will hopefully speed up the road to recovery instead of being part of the solution. I'll never understand it.
Ideally we have compulsory vaccinations for all, mandatory mask-wearing indoors and outdoors, and full lockdown that bars all non-essential activities. It's just that simple and I have no idea why people could possibly be opposed to that.
Because it probably won't work because no part of the US government has the stomach to arrest enough of the people who violate those conditions.
All such a situation will end up with is a sort of double standard where all the costs are borne by the middle classes, while the lower and upper classes flaunt the orders with little to no consequences (like we've seen throughout any of the orders).
It's not the government's job to arrest people who flaunt the orders. It's the responsibility of neighbors to refuse to serve those people. Even if it hits their bottom line, by refusing service to people who refuse to follow these rules lets them know they can either go hungry/without necessities or get in line with the mitigation measures placed. It's for people to stop being Simone Biles in their mental capacity to find a workaround to wearing a mask or getting the vaccine.
Have you ever arrested your neighbor for doing an illegal thing? Do you realize how ridiculous this idea is? Almost every private party will lose such a court action. There are people who do citizens arrests on rapists, burglars, and murderers who end up having to pay hospital bills for the people they apprehended.
I suggest re-reading their post. ZerOCoolSC2 didn't state people should be arresting their neighbors. They stated people should be refusing to serve them.
And what do you say to the store owner that gets hit with a discrimination lawsuit because 90% of the people they are refusing service to are a minority (which will happen in most urban areas)?
Why are you asking me to defend a position I never took? I just clarified what the poster you replied to was saying.
On August 06 2021 05:52 Mohdoo wrote: Cuba is a really weird situation because I truly feel like I am not able to properly understand it. There appears to be extreme dishonesty from both sides of the Cuba debate.
I’m glad someone else said it, I feel outside of living there for a while I know fuck all, caught between the two stools of ‘Cuba and socialism are awful’ and ‘Cuba and socialism are great, look at those literacy rates’.
Just so you know, Cuba is neither socialist nor is it communist, no matter how much they state Cuba is. Cuba is the very definition of a dictatorship, and those who say otherwise have their own agenda with Cuba.
On August 04 2021 22:41 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote: There are more people working harder to not mask instead of just wearing a mask and being done with it. It's like people trying to skip out on work. Just wear the mask. Get the vaccine. Whatever Olympic gymnastic floor event you have your brain doing to convince you to not do the smallest of mitigation, stop. More energy spent fighting something that will hopefully speed up the road to recovery instead of being part of the solution. I'll never understand it.
Ideally we have compulsory vaccinations for all, mandatory mask-wearing indoors and outdoors, and full lockdown that bars all non-essential activities. It's just that simple and I have no idea why people could possibly be opposed to that.
Because it probably won't work because no part of the US government has the stomach to arrest enough of the people who violate those conditions.
All such a situation will end up with is a sort of double standard where all the costs are borne by the middle classes, while the lower and upper classes flaunt the orders with little to no consequences (like we've seen throughout any of the orders).
It's not the government's job to arrest people who flaunt the orders. It's the responsibility of neighbors to refuse to serve those people. Even if it hits their bottom line, by refusing service to people who refuse to follow these rules lets them know they can either go hungry/without necessities or get in line with the mitigation measures placed. It's for people to stop being Simone Biles in their mental capacity to find a workaround to wearing a mask or getting the vaccine.
Why?! What does a world class gymnast struggling with mental health issues have to do with your post about Covid? I hope it's just a poor choice of words, and you're using her as a weird synonym for gymnastics. It's still weird, but anything else I can think of for the context would be outright offensive.
On August 04 2021 22:41 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote: There are more people working harder to not mask instead of just wearing a mask and being done with it. It's like people trying to skip out on work. Just wear the mask. Get the vaccine. Whatever Olympic gymnastic floor event you have your brain doing to convince you to not do the smallest of mitigation, stop. More energy spent fighting something that will hopefully speed up the road to recovery instead of being part of the solution. I'll never understand it.
Ideally we have compulsory vaccinations for all, mandatory mask-wearing indoors and outdoors, and full lockdown that bars all non-essential activities. It's just that simple and I have no idea why people could possibly be opposed to that.
Because it probably won't work because no part of the US government has the stomach to arrest enough of the people who violate those conditions.
All such a situation will end up with is a sort of double standard where all the costs are borne by the middle classes, while the lower and upper classes flaunt the orders with little to no consequences (like we've seen throughout any of the orders).
It's not the government's job to arrest people who flaunt the orders. It's the responsibility of neighbors to refuse to serve those people. Even if it hits their bottom line, by refusing service to people who refuse to follow these rules lets them know they can either go hungry/without necessities or get in line with the mitigation measures placed. It's for people to stop being Simone Biles in their mental capacity to find a workaround to wearing a mask or getting the vaccine.
Why?! What does a world class gymnast struggling with mental health issues have to do with your post about Covid? I hope it's just a poor choice of words, and you're using her as a weird synonym for gymnastics. It's still weird, but anything else I can think of for the context would be outright offensive.
I think he's saying it takes a lot of "mental gymnastics" to justify mask/vaccine aversion.
On August 04 2021 22:41 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote: There are more people working harder to not mask instead of just wearing a mask and being done with it. It's like people trying to skip out on work. Just wear the mask. Get the vaccine. Whatever Olympic gymnastic floor event you have your brain doing to convince you to not do the smallest of mitigation, stop. More energy spent fighting something that will hopefully speed up the road to recovery instead of being part of the solution. I'll never understand it.
Ideally we have compulsory vaccinations for all, mandatory mask-wearing indoors and outdoors, and full lockdown that bars all non-essential activities. It's just that simple and I have no idea why people could possibly be opposed to that.
Because it probably won't work because no part of the US government has the stomach to arrest enough of the people who violate those conditions.
All such a situation will end up with is a sort of double standard where all the costs are borne by the middle classes, while the lower and upper classes flaunt the orders with little to no consequences (like we've seen throughout any of the orders).
It's not the government's job to arrest people who flaunt the orders. It's the responsibility of neighbors to refuse to serve those people. Even if it hits their bottom line, by refusing service to people who refuse to follow these rules lets them know they can either go hungry/without necessities or get in line with the mitigation measures placed. It's for people to stop being Simone Biles in their mental capacity to find a workaround to wearing a mask or getting the vaccine.
Why?! What does a world class gymnast struggling with mental health issues have to do with your post about Covid? I hope it's just a poor choice of words, and you're using her as a weird synonym for gymnastics. It's still weird, but anything else I can think of for the context would be outright offensive.
I think he's saying it takes a lot of "mental gymnastics" to justify mask/vaccine aversion.
Having lived in a communist country, I can safely say that it's not great, it's not even ok. Anyone claiming otherwise will not be a friend of mine. That being said, when communism fell across the world Cubans did not overthrow its government, there must be a reason for that. Either there were not as bad off as in Poland, DDR, Romania, Bulgaria, Hungary, Russia and so on... or there must be some other factor or factors that I am missing. I mean, as history has shown fear and threat of force is often not enough (Stasi, KGB, Securitate were unable to stop revolutions).
On August 06 2021 18:25 Silvanel wrote: Having lived in a communist country, I can safely say that it's not great, it's not even ok. Anyone claiming otherwise will not be a friend of mine. That being said, when communism fell across the world Cubans did not overthrow its government, there must be a reason for that. Either there were not as bad off as in Poland, DDR, Romania, Bulgaria, Hungary, Russia and so on... or there must be some other factor or factors that I am missing. I mean, as history has shown fear and threat of force is often not enough (Stasi, KGB, Securitate were unable to stop revolutions).
Albania didn't immediately transition either and it wasn't because Albania was doing so well. But Cuba is no North Korea, with its absolute isolationism and complete control over all media. They are too near the US for that to work, and too many Cubans have contact with those living abroad.
And my own experience visiting Cuba (over 10 years ago, so things have no doubt changed), was that people don't generally seem dissatisfied. They weren't happy that it was essentially impossible to get luxuries, but they were happy that basic human requirements were guaranteed. You look at a place like Haiti or even the Dominican Republic, and they are in many ways much much worse than Cuba despite democracy and capitalism.
The government is repressive and corrupt. But they do at least ensure the basic requirements. Analfabetism is very very low, housing is provided, food was generally available (I read that changed) and health care is good and accessible. Ensuring those basics satisfies a lot of people.
On August 06 2021 18:25 Silvanel wrote: Having lived in a communist country, I can safely say that it's not great, it's not even ok. Anyone claiming otherwise will not be a friend of mine. That being said, when communism fell across the world Cubans did not overthrow its government, there must be a reason for that. Either there were not as bad off as in Poland, DDR, Romania, Bulgaria, Hungary, Russia and so on... or there must be some other factor or factors that I am missing. I mean, as history has shown fear and threat of force is often not enough (Stasi, KGB, Securitate were unable to stop revolutions).
And my own experience visiting Cuba (over 10 years ago, so things have no doubt changed), was that people don't generally seem dissatisfied. They weren't happy that it was essentially impossible to get luxuries, but they were happy that basic human requirements were guaranteed. You look at a place like Haiti or even the Dominican Republic, and they are in many ways much much worse than Cuba despite democracy and capitalism.
I was surprised to learn that they have universal healthcare over there. Of course.medical supplies and equipment are scarce though because they are so poor and the embargo forbids getting supplies from the US. It was a documentary about breakthrough cancer research in Cuba that Americans were traveling there to receive, and which resulted in a partnership with a hospital in New York I believe. That hospital planned to build a research center in Cuba but it's really hard to transfer equipment and supplies.
On August 06 2021 18:25 Silvanel wrote: Having lived in a communist country, I can safely say that it's not great, it's not even ok. Anyone claiming otherwise will not be a friend of mine. That being said, when communism fell across the world Cubans did not overthrow its government, there must be a reason for that. Either there were not as bad off as in Poland, DDR, Romania, Bulgaria, Hungary, Russia and so on... or there must be some other factor or factors that I am missing. I mean, as history has shown fear and threat of force is often not enough (Stasi, KGB, Securitate were unable to stop revolutions).
Albania didn't immediately transition either and it wasn't because Albania was doing so well. But Cuba is no North Korea, with its absolute isolationism and complete control over all media. They are too near the US for that to work, and too many Cubans have contact with those living abroad.
And my own experience visiting Cuba (over 10 years ago, so things have no doubt changed), was that people don't generally seem dissatisfied. They weren't happy that it was essentially impossible to get luxuries, but they were happy that basic human requirements were guaranteed. You look at a place like Haiti or even the Dominican Republic, and they are in many ways much much worse than Cuba despite democracy and capitalism.
The government is repressive and corrupt. But they do at least ensure the basic requirements. Analfabetism is very very low, housing is provided, food was generally available (I read that changed) and health care is good and accessible. Ensuring those basics satisfies a lot of people.
"basic requirements" is a bit of a stretch here. All citizens who align themselves with the government definitely get basic requirements, all others get shit. You know that they give a family 7 eggs for the entire month? they pay 24 pesos a month to EVERYONE, even doctors, which equates to $1 USD. A coke can cost 400 pesos. Healthcare looks good, but its trash to the people of Cuba, and good for those who only are part of the regime. People die daily from just hunger and health. It's no better than Haiti or Dominican republic...
Also they don't say they're not dissatisfied, they're scared to even say anything against the government, even to tourist, cause tourist can and have reported them. Have you even seen the news lately on how much the Cuban people are extremely dissatisfied?
Imagine living and growing up in a country where being repressed is the norms. Of course they'll say they're ok. Any Cuban that interacts with tourist is put there by the government. It's not a job anybody can just get. Every part of your life living in Cuba is controlled by the government in Cuba.
On August 06 2021 18:25 Silvanel wrote: Having lived in a communist country, I can safely say that it's not great, it's not even ok. Anyone claiming otherwise will not be a friend of mine. That being said, when communism fell across the world Cubans did not overthrow its government, there must be a reason for that. Either there were not as bad off as in Poland, DDR, Romania, Bulgaria, Hungary, Russia and so on... or there must be some other factor or factors that I am missing. I mean, as history has shown fear and threat of force is often not enough (Stasi, KGB, Securitate were unable to stop revolutions).
And my own experience visiting Cuba (over 10 years ago, so things have no doubt changed), was that people don't generally seem dissatisfied. They weren't happy that it was essentially impossible to get luxuries, but they were happy that basic human requirements were guaranteed. You look at a place like Haiti or even the Dominican Republic, and they are in many ways much much worse than Cuba despite democracy and capitalism.
I was surprised to learn that they have universal healthcare over there. Of course.medical supplies and equipment are scarce though because they are so poor and the embargo forbids getting supplies from the US. It was a documentary about breakthrough cancer research in Cuba that Americans were traveling there to receive, and which resulted in a partnership with a hospital in New York I believe. That hospital planned to build a research center in Cuba but it's really hard to transfer equipment and supplies.
The US Embargo does not include a blockade on medical supplies or food for the Cuban people. So that's just propaganda. Here's a convo that was had earlier in the thread already.
On July 14 2021 05:29 ShoCkeyy wrote: Hundreds of Miami Cubans head to Cuba to help the Cuban people fight and aid against the government on their own boats. I honestly hope they make it safe, but I don’t expect the Cuban government to just allow them to land on their shores. I expect quite a few deaths sadly.
This is getting out of hand with Cuba and US relations. It’s like trying to start a mini war, that can turn into a full blown war with greater powers.
The last 60+ years of embargo the rest of the world recognizes as cruelly inhumane was explicitly intended to foment anti-government sentiment as a result of lacking basic supplies. So yeah, the US's position has been unconscionably barbaric for decades with the explicit intention of fomenting disorder that would ostensibly justify US military intervention.
Cuba's a rare exception where the US's persistent attempts to deprive them of food & medicine, assassinate their president, invade their country, etc. have all failed because of the resolute nature of the revolution in Cuba.
Just so you know, the American side of the embargo is bullshit, the Cuban government have their own blockade against American goods. They also have many other countries they can trade with like Canada. The embargo actually allows food and medicine from the US to be shipped to Cuba. Cuba’s government steals the food and medicine for itself, they created their own embargo to blame the in humane conditions against the US. What you spouted is literally Cuban government propaganda.
Must be damn good propaganda to get
A total of 184 countries on Wednesday voted in favour of a resolution to demand the end of the US economic blockade on Cuba, for the 29th year in a row, with [only] the United States and Israel voting against.
Every year we authorize billions of dollars’ worth of exports to Cuba, including food and other agricultural commodities, medicines, medical devices, telecommunications equipment, other goods, and other items to support the Cuban people. Advancing democracy and human rights remain at
As soon as you remove the embargo, without a plan in place, you're only going to make the corrupt Cuban regime/government richer.
EPT
