EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 2560
| Forum Index > General Forum |
Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
|
JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
| ||
|
Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On August 14 2020 23:03 Wombat_NI wrote: @Danglars so if I understand correctly Israel is ceasing settlement expansion as per the terms of this brokered deal? In work at the moment and haven’t had much browsing time outside of my beloved TL. I mean aside from the rather cringey titling of the ‘President’s Vision for Peace’ (Jesus really?) that does seem a promising development of affairs. Yeah well fair play. Some of us like myself will never be satisfied of course, given the UAE has a pretty chequered approach to all things human rights and sorting that out has never been any kind of impediment to Western money flowing in. Still yes, I’ll count this in the ‘win’ column if it actually has bound Israel into halting settlement expansion. It’s the proposed annexation, not really about settlements particularly. This is maybe the first recognizing Israel in regional countries as far as right to exist since the 90s if memory serves. It’s also a good step towards various two-state solutions, and against the “from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free.” Hamas and others would like countries like UAE to not legitimate the nation of Israel. | ||
|
JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
| ||
|
Danglars
United States12133 Posts
PATERSON – Three dead people seemingly tried to vote in Paterson’s recent elections, and for what it’s worth, none of them listed the two cemeteries located in the city as an address. The ballots from the deceased were listed on an election report released on Friday detailing the reasons why 3,274 votes – or 20 percent of those submitted – were rejected in Paterson all-vote-by-mail elections. The report showed one person may have attempted to vote twice, so her ballots were disqualified. Another 21 ballots were submitted for voters who had moved out of the city, so those also were not counted. As multiple law enforcement agencies probe possible irregularities in use of mail-in votes in Paterson, candidates and activists repeatedly have asserted that election fraud took place, allegations fueled by the discovery of what officials say were hundreds of improperly bundled ballots at mailboxes in the city and neighboring Haledon. The report released on Friday by the Passaic County Board of Elections makes no mention of any ballots being rejected because of the bundling or possible fraud. The most common reason for the votes’ disqualification was that election officials decided the signatures on the ballots didn’t match those on file in voter registration records. The report listed 1,214 rejections because of ballot signatures, which accounted for 37 percent of all those that were disqualified. Most of the other disqualifications stemmed from a variety of flaws involving the ballots not being filled out the right way. About 1,000 of those rejections covered problems with the section of the ballot that must be filled out by the “bearer,” the official title for anyone who delivers the ballot on behalf of the voter. North Jersey Imagine Trump winning a narrowly in a swing state where something higher than 1 in 10 ballots were decided to not count. Imagine not hearing that conclusion until 3 weeks after the date of the election. Put that together with all these allegations regarding the postal service, stoked by Trump's own comments on the issue. | ||
|
JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
| ||
|
Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
I do think it preferable to killing possibly hundreds of thousands of people, though (depending on how much it stokes the exponential spread, this is probably a VERY high estimate). My area would probably be safe to vote - I live in a high income, white area with a fairly average median age in Ohio that has always had decent mask wearing. It wouldn't be as safe for poorer or older areas, though (the poorer ones have much more crowded voting areas than the rich). | ||
|
Gorsameth
Netherlands22239 Posts
On August 15 2020 00:29 Danglars wrote: In a better world Republicans and Democrats would be working to make a large mail-in vote for November as smooth as possible and try to prevent issues from happening, instead the energy is being spend on whether there can even be a mail-in vote and gutting the USPS/trying to find out how gutted the USPS is.New York's election delays showed that November's election may not have a result for many weeks. It was only a primary, but did not have a result in close races a month and a half later. New Jersey is showing the first signs of the fraud, rejected ballots, and lawsuits that accompanies mail-in voting. Paterson is the third largest city in the state. A full 20% of the ballots were thrown out. Four people are under prosecution for fraud. The dead voted and residents who were marked as voting claimed they never received ballots. North Jersey Imagine Trump winning a narrowly in a swing state where something higher than 1 in 10 ballots were decided to not count. Imagine not hearing that conclusion until 3 weeks after the date of the election. Put that together with all these allegations regarding the postal service, stoked by Trump's own comments on the issue. ps. Not knowing the results until 3 weeks after the election is irreverent to me, it doesn't matter if the world known on Nov 4 or Dec 1st, so long as the result stands and the election is done fairly (which I doubt it will at this point) | ||
|
GreenHorizons
United States23884 Posts
| ||
|
Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
On August 15 2020 01:24 GreenHorizons wrote: What if Trump wins a blatantly unfair (like a bunch of Dem votes are thrown out due to USPS problems) election? I make arrangements to move to either Canada or Norway and then violently protest until I leave. My wife is almost wanting to move regardless because she is already over our country and is just here for family | ||
|
Simberto
Germany11802 Posts
On August 15 2020 00:41 Nevuk wrote: Yes. Voting by mail WILL be a mess. I definitely agree on that. I do think it preferable to killing possibly hundreds of thousands of people, though (depending on how much it stokes the exponential spread, this is probably a VERY high estimate). My area would probably be safe to vote - I live in a high income, white area with a fairly average median age in Ohio that has always had decent mask wearing. It wouldn't be as safe for poorer or older areas, though (the poorer ones have much more crowded voting areas than the rich). What i don't understand is why it has to be like that. Voting by mail works very, very well here in Germany. Why can it not work in the US? | ||
|
CuddlyCuteKitten
Sweden2760 Posts
That it's being done without any major freakout in the US is even stranger. | ||
|
Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On August 15 2020 00:41 Nevuk wrote: Yes. Voting by mail WILL be a mess. I definitely agree on that. I do think it preferable to killing possibly hundreds of thousands of people, though (depending on how much it stokes the exponential spread, this is probably a VERY high estimate). My area would probably be safe to vote - I live in a high income, white area with a fairly average median age in Ohio that has always had decent mask wearing. It wouldn't be as safe for poorer or older areas, though (the poorer ones have much more crowded voting areas than the rich). Yeah, I wouldn't go "killing possibly hundreds of thousands of people." Wisconsin had an election in April and everybody was losing their minds over the death toll. Like, even allowing people to vote in person was equivalent to killing so many of their citizens. Andddddd no spike. So like, yeah, some areas it would be better to ask for an absentee ballot, but don't go crazy on the kill count. A lot of people ended up with egg on their face on Wisconsin. | ||
|
farvacola
United States18856 Posts
| ||
|
Gorsameth
Netherlands22239 Posts
On August 15 2020 01:32 Simberto wrote: Because one party is not interested in democracy and knows that they will lose in a fair vote.What i don't understand is why it has to be like that. Voting by mail works very, very well here in Germany. Why can it not work in the US? | ||
|
GreenHorizons
United States23884 Posts
On August 15 2020 01:36 farvacola wrote: I dunno what “major freak out” means, but the Trump campaign and many state election bodies are being sued by all kinds of plaintiffs. And that’s on top of the fact that Trump fucking with the mail isn’t the boon to his campaign he seems to think it is. I imagine something more drastic than typical French protests would be a minimum. Filing briefs is the opposite of freaking out though imo. | ||
|
Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
On August 15 2020 01:33 Danglars wrote: Yeah, I wouldn't go "killing possibly hundreds of thousands of people." Wisconsin had an election in April and everybody was losing their minds over the death toll. Like, even allowing people to vote in person was equivalent to killing so many of their citizens. Andddddd no spike. So like, yeah, some areas it would be better to ask for an absentee ballot, but don't go crazy on the kill count. A lot of people ended up with egg on their face on Wisconsin. 100s of ks is probably too high. At most, I'd guess 100k (worst case scenario). It's hard to define though, since an event like that can have an exponential spread afterwards - meaning an estimate of 1k-1million is probably within bounds, due to how the math works. I would expect some spike, though. There have been notable spikes when there have been public gatherings in places. Wisconsin's death toll was likely unaffected as it was a primary and people were very spooked. It was only 31% turnout. (There were 400k people that voted in person, 1.1 million absentee ballots). We're talking at least 200-300x that many voters in person if mail-in ballots are made untenable (2016 had 130 million voters, though granted not all were in-person). Other, more-in between alternatives like expanded early voting are also usually opposed. I do believe that a number of voters simply will not believe another Trump win, even if it was valid. Unless it's a landslide Biden win, I expect a lot of violence. | ||
|
Gorsameth
Netherlands22239 Posts
On August 15 2020 01:24 GreenHorizons wrote: You hope the courts fix it, if they don't?What if Trump wins a blatantly unfair (like a bunch of Dem votes are thrown out due to USPS problems) election? civil war or emigration. your pick. | ||
|
GreenHorizons
United States23884 Posts
On August 15 2020 01:48 Gorsameth wrote: You hope the courts fix it, if they don't? civil war or immigration. your pick. Well it would still be legal, just not fair, like the Dem Iowa primary. So can't expect any help from the courts with that particular example. Considering my experience with intelligent people here and their refusal to even consider that scenario in an appropriate time to prepare for it, I guess refugee status it is. | ||
|
Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
According to the New York Times, 38-year-old Clinesmith reached a deal with U.S. Attorney for the District of Connecticut John Durham over the altered Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) email which was used by FBI investigators to obtain permission from the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) Court to maintain a wiretap on Page in 2017. Per that report, Clinesmith’s attorneys insist he was simply trying “to clarify facts for a colleague” but made a mistake–apparently resulting in the falsified email used to keep the spying operation afloat. Lawandcrime writeup https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/durham-probe-nabs-first-scalp-obama-era-fbi-lawyer-will-admit-he-forged-email-used-to-spy-on-carter-page/ NYT story: The lawyer, Kevin Clinesmith, 38, who was assigned to the Russia investigation, plans to admit that he altered an email from the C.I.A. that investigators relied on to seek renewed court permission in 2017 for a secret wiretap on the former Trump campaign adviser Carter Page, who had at times provided information to the spy agency. Mr. Clinesmith’s lawyer said he made a mistake while trying to clarify facts for a colleague. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/14/us/politics/kevin-clinesmith-durham-investigation.html?smid=tw-share | ||
|
CuddlyCuteKitten
Sweden2760 Posts
On August 15 2020 01:45 GreenHorizons wrote: I imagine something more drastic than typical French protests would be a minimum. Filing briefs is the opposite of freaking out though imo. I did an essay on the 7 years war and the time up to the revolution at one time. I got the feeling that the gentlemen that later got involved in the revolution and the birth of democracy in the US would probably be forming well regulated militias if a sitting president actively tried to sabotage peoples ability to vote (by destroying critical infrastructure no less). Given that the founding fathers are viewed almost as saints I would figure that a larger part of the us public would be less "let me file a complaint against this" and more "back the fuck down from democracy or it's time to water some trees". | ||
| ||
