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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread |
I understand why people think Europe is a better place to raise kids right now but looking 10-20 years down the road it is not at all clear to me that Europe will be a great place to live with job prospects. There are already (ie before covid) a lot of European countries with high unemployment, specifically youth unemployment. The demographics don’t look good. The debt burdens in a federated Euro system don’t look good. I am not saying the whole thing will definitely crumble but if you are thinking about emigrating in order to bet on the next generation’s prospects the situation is far more complicated than some of you are making it out to be. The US in comparison has the capacity for food independence, energy independence, market independence, and a younger demographic profile.
None of that speaks to aesthetic and lifestyle concerns that are only loosely related to material prosperity of course.
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On July 06 2020 21:25 iamthedave wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2020 06:29 GreenHorizons wrote:
Think there's an argument for Kanye to be the lesser of 3 evils. He's certainly been responsible for less harm than either Trump or Biden.
Most of what could make Kanye not the lesser evil is based on the idea he's inexperienced. He's probably the least likely to die in office, and the only Black candidate during a national uprising about race and policing. That said, it's most definitely a publicity stunt. Worth remembering Trump did this a few times before he finally actually ran. 2024 might be his run. He's also said that 'slavery was a choice'. If you think a black man with that mentality is going to do good work for African Americans I think you'd be in for a very rude awakening. Kanye's also nearly as problematic as Trump when it comes to dodgy behaviour. Genuinely surprised to see you post something like this, GH. At absolute best Kanye would be a political puppet. The guy's demonstrated that he's a first rate idiot multiple times.
Kanye is a moron (his first albums were good) and a ruthless capitalist. He just hasn't done a fraction of the damage to Black people in the US or internationally that Trump or Biden has contributed to.
Kanye would be a way worse puppet than Joe Biden (who I think we all know will be figurehead to his administration), and probably about as a bad a puppet (in the say what we tell you way) as Trump.
I just meant in 2024 Democrats might still be thinking cops are the future of their party and it might be another Trump on the other side which might make Kanye a viable candidate in 2024 like Trump was in 2016 after teasing it for several cycles.
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On July 07 2020 04:01 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2020 21:25 iamthedave wrote:On July 06 2020 06:29 GreenHorizons wrote:
Think there's an argument for Kanye to be the lesser of 3 evils. He's certainly been responsible for less harm than either Trump or Biden.
Most of what could make Kanye not the lesser evil is based on the idea he's inexperienced. He's probably the least likely to die in office, and the only Black candidate during a national uprising about race and policing. That said, it's most definitely a publicity stunt. Worth remembering Trump did this a few times before he finally actually ran. 2024 might be his run. He's also said that 'slavery was a choice'. If you think a black man with that mentality is going to do good work for African Americans I think you'd be in for a very rude awakening. Kanye's also nearly as problematic as Trump when it comes to dodgy behaviour. Genuinely surprised to see you post something like this, GH. At absolute best Kanye would be a political puppet. The guy's demonstrated that he's a first rate idiot multiple times. Kanye is a moron (his first albums were good) and a ruthless capitalist. He just hasn't done a fraction of the damage to Black people in the US or internationally that Trump or Biden has contributed to. Kanye would be a way worse puppet than Joe Biden (who I think we all know will be figurehead to his administration), and probably about as a bad a puppet (in the say what we tell you way) as Trump. I just meant in 2024 Democrats might still be thinking cops are the future of their party and it might be another Trump on the other side which might make Kanye a viable candidate in 2024 like Trump was in 2016 after teasing it for several cycles.
In what sense is the question of cops empirical for you? Would a cop without a weapon and without qualified immunity still be a “cop”? If a city got rid of all cops and homicides doubled or tripled what would your response be?
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On July 07 2020 04:01 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2020 21:25 iamthedave wrote:On July 06 2020 06:29 GreenHorizons wrote:
Think there's an argument for Kanye to be the lesser of 3 evils. He's certainly been responsible for less harm than either Trump or Biden.
Most of what could make Kanye not the lesser evil is based on the idea he's inexperienced. He's probably the least likely to die in office, and the only Black candidate during a national uprising about race and policing. That said, it's most definitely a publicity stunt. Worth remembering Trump did this a few times before he finally actually ran. 2024 might be his run. He's also said that 'slavery was a choice'. If you think a black man with that mentality is going to do good work for African Americans I think you'd be in for a very rude awakening. Kanye's also nearly as problematic as Trump when it comes to dodgy behaviour. Genuinely surprised to see you post something like this, GH. At absolute best Kanye would be a political puppet. The guy's demonstrated that he's a first rate idiot multiple times. Kanye is a moron (his first albums were good) and a ruthless capitalist. He just hasn't done a fraction of the damage to Black people in the US or internationally that Trump or Biden has contributed to. Kanye would be a way worse puppet than Joe Biden (who I think we all know will be figurehead to his administration), and probably about as a bad a puppet (in the say what we tell you way) as Trump. I just meant in 2024 Democrats might still be thinking cops are the future of their party and it might be another Trump on the other side which might make Kanye a viable candidate in 2024 like Trump was in 2016 after teasing it for several cycles.
That doesn't make Kanye the lesser of 3 evils though. It makes him worse than all 3.
The inexperience of Trump without even the grifting skill, equally obnoxious, just as if not more ignorant about basically everything, at least as narcissistic, and even more likely to turn the presidency into a reality TV laughing stock.
'Lesser of 3 evils' is not 'will make everything that was bad about the last four years even worse without introducing anything good'.
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On July 07 2020 04:01 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2020 21:25 iamthedave wrote:On July 06 2020 06:29 GreenHorizons wrote:
Think there's an argument for Kanye to be the lesser of 3 evils. He's certainly been responsible for less harm than either Trump or Biden.
Most of what could make Kanye not the lesser evil is based on the idea he's inexperienced. He's probably the least likely to die in office, and the only Black candidate during a national uprising about race and policing. That said, it's most definitely a publicity stunt. Worth remembering Trump did this a few times before he finally actually ran. 2024 might be his run. He's also said that 'slavery was a choice'. If you think a black man with that mentality is going to do good work for African Americans I think you'd be in for a very rude awakening. Kanye's also nearly as problematic as Trump when it comes to dodgy behaviour. Genuinely surprised to see you post something like this, GH. At absolute best Kanye would be a political puppet. The guy's demonstrated that he's a first rate idiot multiple times. Kanye is a moron (his first albums were good) and a ruthless capitalist. He just hasn't done a fraction of the damage to Black people in the US or internationally that Trump or Biden has contributed to. Kanye would be a way worse puppet than Joe Biden (who I think we all know will be figurehead to his administration), and probably about as a bad a puppet (in the say what we tell you way) as Trump. I just meant in 2024 Democrats might still be thinking cops are the future of their party and it might be another Trump on the other side which might make Kanye a viable candidate in 2024 like Trump was in 2016 after teasing it for several cycles. A random literal nazi off the street has likely done a fraction of the damage to black people that Trump or Biden might have done.
But that doesn't mean his potentially Presidency wouldn't be very damaging to black people.
"Well he hasn't been in a position to fuck over millions before, so how bad could it be" is not an argument for chosen a President.
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On July 07 2020 04:15 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2020 04:01 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 06 2020 21:25 iamthedave wrote:On July 06 2020 06:29 GreenHorizons wrote:
Think there's an argument for Kanye to be the lesser of 3 evils. He's certainly been responsible for less harm than either Trump or Biden.
Most of what could make Kanye not the lesser evil is based on the idea he's inexperienced. He's probably the least likely to die in office, and the only Black candidate during a national uprising about race and policing. That said, it's most definitely a publicity stunt. Worth remembering Trump did this a few times before he finally actually ran. 2024 might be his run. He's also said that 'slavery was a choice'. If you think a black man with that mentality is going to do good work for African Americans I think you'd be in for a very rude awakening. Kanye's also nearly as problematic as Trump when it comes to dodgy behaviour. Genuinely surprised to see you post something like this, GH. At absolute best Kanye would be a political puppet. The guy's demonstrated that he's a first rate idiot multiple times. Kanye is a moron (his first albums were good) and a ruthless capitalist. He just hasn't done a fraction of the damage to Black people in the US or internationally that Trump or Biden has contributed to. Kanye would be a way worse puppet than Joe Biden (who I think we all know will be figurehead to his administration), and probably about as a bad a puppet (in the say what we tell you way) as Trump. I just meant in 2024 Democrats might still be thinking cops are the future of their party and it might be another Trump on the other side which might make Kanye a viable candidate in 2024 like Trump was in 2016 after teasing it for several cycles. A random literal nazi off the street has likely done a fraction of the damage to black people that Trump or Biden might have done. But that doesn't mean his potentially Presidency wouldn't be very damaging to black people. "Well he hasn't been in a position to fuck over millions before, so how bad could it be" is not an argument for chosen a President.
Did I say his presidency wouldn't be damaging to Black people? Hell Obama's presidency was damaging to Black people and he was a model African American in the classical sense.
I also am not suggesting a Kanye presidency couldn't be the worst yet (though genocide is tough to compete with).
Just saying he's clearly the lesser evil of the three to me, not that I would vote for someone just for clearing that bar. Because as you point out, even a literal neonazi could clear that.
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On July 07 2020 04:32 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2020 04:15 Gorsameth wrote:On July 07 2020 04:01 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 06 2020 21:25 iamthedave wrote:On July 06 2020 06:29 GreenHorizons wrote:
Think there's an argument for Kanye to be the lesser of 3 evils. He's certainly been responsible for less harm than either Trump or Biden.
Most of what could make Kanye not the lesser evil is based on the idea he's inexperienced. He's probably the least likely to die in office, and the only Black candidate during a national uprising about race and policing. That said, it's most definitely a publicity stunt. Worth remembering Trump did this a few times before he finally actually ran. 2024 might be his run. He's also said that 'slavery was a choice'. If you think a black man with that mentality is going to do good work for African Americans I think you'd be in for a very rude awakening. Kanye's also nearly as problematic as Trump when it comes to dodgy behaviour. Genuinely surprised to see you post something like this, GH. At absolute best Kanye would be a political puppet. The guy's demonstrated that he's a first rate idiot multiple times. Kanye is a moron (his first albums were good) and a ruthless capitalist. He just hasn't done a fraction of the damage to Black people in the US or internationally that Trump or Biden has contributed to. Kanye would be a way worse puppet than Joe Biden (who I think we all know will be figurehead to his administration), and probably about as a bad a puppet (in the say what we tell you way) as Trump. I just meant in 2024 Democrats might still be thinking cops are the future of their party and it might be another Trump on the other side which might make Kanye a viable candidate in 2024 like Trump was in 2016 after teasing it for several cycles. A random literal nazi off the street has likely done a fraction of the damage to black people that Trump or Biden might have done. But that doesn't mean his potentially Presidency wouldn't be very damaging to black people. "Well he hasn't been in a position to fuck over millions before, so how bad could it be" is not an argument for chosen a President. Did I say his presidency wouldn't be damaging to Black people? Hell Obama's presidency was damaging to Black people and he was a model African American in the classical sense. I also am not suggesting a Kanye presidency couldn't be the worst yet (though genocide is tough to compete with). Just saying he's clearly the lesser evil of the three to me, not that I would vote for someone just for clearing that bar. Because as you point out, even a literal neonazi could clear that.
Bolded part caught my eye, can you elaborate?
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The only reason Kanye might not be as damaging as Trump is that racist senators would be far more likely to kick him to the curb after her starts picking public fights with widows. That's not an argument for electing him, unless you're one of those people who thinks everything needs to be destroyed totally to start out with (I forget the name of that group, they were for Yang pretty strongly)
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On July 07 2020 04:43 Aveng3r wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2020 04:32 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 07 2020 04:15 Gorsameth wrote:On July 07 2020 04:01 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 06 2020 21:25 iamthedave wrote:On July 06 2020 06:29 GreenHorizons wrote:
Think there's an argument for Kanye to be the lesser of 3 evils. He's certainly been responsible for less harm than either Trump or Biden.
Most of what could make Kanye not the lesser evil is based on the idea he's inexperienced. He's probably the least likely to die in office, and the only Black candidate during a national uprising about race and policing. That said, it's most definitely a publicity stunt. Worth remembering Trump did this a few times before he finally actually ran. 2024 might be his run. He's also said that 'slavery was a choice'. If you think a black man with that mentality is going to do good work for African Americans I think you'd be in for a very rude awakening. Kanye's also nearly as problematic as Trump when it comes to dodgy behaviour. Genuinely surprised to see you post something like this, GH. At absolute best Kanye would be a political puppet. The guy's demonstrated that he's a first rate idiot multiple times. Kanye is a moron (his first albums were good) and a ruthless capitalist. He just hasn't done a fraction of the damage to Black people in the US or internationally that Trump or Biden has contributed to. Kanye would be a way worse puppet than Joe Biden (who I think we all know will be figurehead to his administration), and probably about as a bad a puppet (in the say what we tell you way) as Trump. I just meant in 2024 Democrats might still be thinking cops are the future of their party and it might be another Trump on the other side which might make Kanye a viable candidate in 2024 like Trump was in 2016 after teasing it for several cycles. A random literal nazi off the street has likely done a fraction of the damage to black people that Trump or Biden might have done. But that doesn't mean his potentially Presidency wouldn't be very damaging to black people. "Well he hasn't been in a position to fuck over millions before, so how bad could it be" is not an argument for chosen a President. Did I say his presidency wouldn't be damaging to Black people? Hell Obama's presidency was damaging to Black people and he was a model African American in the classical sense. I also am not suggesting a Kanye presidency couldn't be the worst yet (though genocide is tough to compete with). Just saying he's clearly the lesser evil of the three to me, not that I would vote for someone just for clearing that bar. Because as you point out, even a literal neonazi could clear that. Bolded part caught my eye, can you elaborate?
I presume you mean the part about how Obama's presidency was damaging to Black people (not exclusively). That his presidency was damaging to Black people isn't really in dispute afaik, Democrats just blame it all on Republicans. From my perspective we either are anti-capitalist or we're harming Black people. Note "anti-capitalist" doesn't mean "lives in bubble outside of society/capitalism" His presidency was explicitly not anti-capitalist.
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On July 07 2020 05:03 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2020 04:43 Aveng3r wrote:On July 07 2020 04:32 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 07 2020 04:15 Gorsameth wrote:On July 07 2020 04:01 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 06 2020 21:25 iamthedave wrote:On July 06 2020 06:29 GreenHorizons wrote:
Think there's an argument for Kanye to be the lesser of 3 evils. He's certainly been responsible for less harm than either Trump or Biden.
Most of what could make Kanye not the lesser evil is based on the idea he's inexperienced. He's probably the least likely to die in office, and the only Black candidate during a national uprising about race and policing. That said, it's most definitely a publicity stunt. Worth remembering Trump did this a few times before he finally actually ran. 2024 might be his run. He's also said that 'slavery was a choice'. If you think a black man with that mentality is going to do good work for African Americans I think you'd be in for a very rude awakening. Kanye's also nearly as problematic as Trump when it comes to dodgy behaviour. Genuinely surprised to see you post something like this, GH. At absolute best Kanye would be a political puppet. The guy's demonstrated that he's a first rate idiot multiple times. Kanye is a moron (his first albums were good) and a ruthless capitalist. He just hasn't done a fraction of the damage to Black people in the US or internationally that Trump or Biden has contributed to. Kanye would be a way worse puppet than Joe Biden (who I think we all know will be figurehead to his administration), and probably about as a bad a puppet (in the say what we tell you way) as Trump. I just meant in 2024 Democrats might still be thinking cops are the future of their party and it might be another Trump on the other side which might make Kanye a viable candidate in 2024 like Trump was in 2016 after teasing it for several cycles. A random literal nazi off the street has likely done a fraction of the damage to black people that Trump or Biden might have done. But that doesn't mean his potentially Presidency wouldn't be very damaging to black people. "Well he hasn't been in a position to fuck over millions before, so how bad could it be" is not an argument for chosen a President. Did I say his presidency wouldn't be damaging to Black people? Hell Obama's presidency was damaging to Black people and he was a model African American in the classical sense. I also am not suggesting a Kanye presidency couldn't be the worst yet (though genocide is tough to compete with). Just saying he's clearly the lesser evil of the three to me, not that I would vote for someone just for clearing that bar. Because as you point out, even a literal neonazi could clear that. Bolded part caught my eye, can you elaborate? I presume you mean the part about how Obama's presidency was damaging to Black people (not exclusively). That his presidency was damaging to Black people isn't really in dispute afaik, Democrats just blame it all on Republicans. From my perspective we either are anti-capitalist or we're harming Black people. Note "anti-capitalist" doesn't mean "lives in bubble outside of society/capitalism" His presidency was explicitly not anti-capitalist.
Correct, I was referring to your statement about his presidency being damaging to the black community.
I'm not current on the debate as to whether it was or wasn't so I don't exactly have a strong opinion here, but I was curious if you had a specific piece of legislature or something to that effect to support the argument? Personally I don't look back on his administration as being damaging to the black community but I've got an open ear on your perspective
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On July 07 2020 05:28 Aveng3r wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2020 05:03 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 07 2020 04:43 Aveng3r wrote:On July 07 2020 04:32 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 07 2020 04:15 Gorsameth wrote:On July 07 2020 04:01 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 06 2020 21:25 iamthedave wrote:On July 06 2020 06:29 GreenHorizons wrote:
Think there's an argument for Kanye to be the lesser of 3 evils. He's certainly been responsible for less harm than either Trump or Biden.
Most of what could make Kanye not the lesser evil is based on the idea he's inexperienced. He's probably the least likely to die in office, and the only Black candidate during a national uprising about race and policing. That said, it's most definitely a publicity stunt. Worth remembering Trump did this a few times before he finally actually ran. 2024 might be his run. He's also said that 'slavery was a choice'. If you think a black man with that mentality is going to do good work for African Americans I think you'd be in for a very rude awakening. Kanye's also nearly as problematic as Trump when it comes to dodgy behaviour. Genuinely surprised to see you post something like this, GH. At absolute best Kanye would be a political puppet. The guy's demonstrated that he's a first rate idiot multiple times. Kanye is a moron (his first albums were good) and a ruthless capitalist. He just hasn't done a fraction of the damage to Black people in the US or internationally that Trump or Biden has contributed to. Kanye would be a way worse puppet than Joe Biden (who I think we all know will be figurehead to his administration), and probably about as a bad a puppet (in the say what we tell you way) as Trump. I just meant in 2024 Democrats might still be thinking cops are the future of their party and it might be another Trump on the other side which might make Kanye a viable candidate in 2024 like Trump was in 2016 after teasing it for several cycles. A random literal nazi off the street has likely done a fraction of the damage to black people that Trump or Biden might have done. But that doesn't mean his potentially Presidency wouldn't be very damaging to black people. "Well he hasn't been in a position to fuck over millions before, so how bad could it be" is not an argument for chosen a President. Did I say his presidency wouldn't be damaging to Black people? Hell Obama's presidency was damaging to Black people and he was a model African American in the classical sense. I also am not suggesting a Kanye presidency couldn't be the worst yet (though genocide is tough to compete with). Just saying he's clearly the lesser evil of the three to me, not that I would vote for someone just for clearing that bar. Because as you point out, even a literal neonazi could clear that. Bolded part caught my eye, can you elaborate? I presume you mean the part about how Obama's presidency was damaging to Black people (not exclusively). That his presidency was damaging to Black people isn't really in dispute afaik, Democrats just blame it all on Republicans. From my perspective we either are anti-capitalist or we're harming Black people. Note "anti-capitalist" doesn't mean "lives in bubble outside of society/capitalism" His presidency was explicitly not anti-capitalist. Correct, I was referring to your statement about his presidency being damaging to the black community. I'm not current on the debate as to whether it was or wasn't so I don't exactly have a strong opinion here, but I was curious if you had a specific piece of legislature or something to that effect to support the argument? Personally I don't look back on his administration as being damaging to the black community but I've got an open ear on your perspective
He answered your question. If a President ushered in an era where every black person was given $100k a year as reparations, two votes, and a new car this would still qualify as “bad for black people” because it wouldn’t be anti-capitalistic. If this strains ordinary language so be it.
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On July 07 2020 05:43 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2020 05:28 Aveng3r wrote:On July 07 2020 05:03 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 07 2020 04:43 Aveng3r wrote:On July 07 2020 04:32 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 07 2020 04:15 Gorsameth wrote:On July 07 2020 04:01 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 06 2020 21:25 iamthedave wrote:On July 06 2020 06:29 GreenHorizons wrote:
Think there's an argument for Kanye to be the lesser of 3 evils. He's certainly been responsible for less harm than either Trump or Biden.
Most of what could make Kanye not the lesser evil is based on the idea he's inexperienced. He's probably the least likely to die in office, and the only Black candidate during a national uprising about race and policing. That said, it's most definitely a publicity stunt. Worth remembering Trump did this a few times before he finally actually ran. 2024 might be his run. He's also said that 'slavery was a choice'. If you think a black man with that mentality is going to do good work for African Americans I think you'd be in for a very rude awakening. Kanye's also nearly as problematic as Trump when it comes to dodgy behaviour. Genuinely surprised to see you post something like this, GH. At absolute best Kanye would be a political puppet. The guy's demonstrated that he's a first rate idiot multiple times. Kanye is a moron (his first albums were good) and a ruthless capitalist. He just hasn't done a fraction of the damage to Black people in the US or internationally that Trump or Biden has contributed to. Kanye would be a way worse puppet than Joe Biden (who I think we all know will be figurehead to his administration), and probably about as a bad a puppet (in the say what we tell you way) as Trump. I just meant in 2024 Democrats might still be thinking cops are the future of their party and it might be another Trump on the other side which might make Kanye a viable candidate in 2024 like Trump was in 2016 after teasing it for several cycles. A random literal nazi off the street has likely done a fraction of the damage to black people that Trump or Biden might have done. But that doesn't mean his potentially Presidency wouldn't be very damaging to black people. "Well he hasn't been in a position to fuck over millions before, so how bad could it be" is not an argument for chosen a President. Did I say his presidency wouldn't be damaging to Black people? Hell Obama's presidency was damaging to Black people and he was a model African American in the classical sense. I also am not suggesting a Kanye presidency couldn't be the worst yet (though genocide is tough to compete with). Just saying he's clearly the lesser evil of the three to me, not that I would vote for someone just for clearing that bar. Because as you point out, even a literal neonazi could clear that. Bolded part caught my eye, can you elaborate? I presume you mean the part about how Obama's presidency was damaging to Black people (not exclusively). That his presidency was damaging to Black people isn't really in dispute afaik, Democrats just blame it all on Republicans. From my perspective we either are anti-capitalist or we're harming Black people. Note "anti-capitalist" doesn't mean "lives in bubble outside of society/capitalism" His presidency was explicitly not anti-capitalist. Correct, I was referring to your statement about his presidency being damaging to the black community. I'm not current on the debate as to whether it was or wasn't so I don't exactly have a strong opinion here, but I was curious if you had a specific piece of legislature or something to that effect to support the argument? Personally I don't look back on his administration as being damaging to the black community but I've got an open ear on your perspective He answered your question. If a President ushered in an era where every black person was given $100k a year as reparations, two votes, and a new car this would still qualify as “bad for black people” because it wouldn’t be anti-capitalistic. If this strains ordinary language so be it.
I think you and I both know that's not true.
What does this post serve? You've jumped in with an egregious over generalization that is sure to do nothing except cause a dumb argument about posting in good faith, using "strawmans", etc.
I'm sure I'll see you in website feedback before too long
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How do you interpret the last two sentences of his post? I was attempting to head off another multi-page set of posts where people try to get him to answer the question with a rationale for his conclusions and all he does is repeat the conclusions you want an explanation for. Just accept that what he primarily means when he says that Obama was “bad for black people” is that Obama was not anti-capitalist. If you minimally believe capitalism is killing the planet through global warming then everything logically follows. You’d only be left with the question “well why say ‘black people’ instead of ‘people’?” Well it’s obvious, isn’t it?
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On July 07 2020 03:18 IgnE wrote:
I understand why people think Europe is a better place to raise kids right now but looking 10-20 years down the road it is not at all clear to me that Europe will be a great place to live with job prospects. There are already (ie before covid) a lot of European countries with high unemployment, specifically youth unemployment. The demographics don’t look good. The debt burdens in a federated Euro system don’t look good. I am not saying the whole thing will definitely crumble but if you are thinking about emigrating in order to bet on the next generation’s prospects the situation is far more complicated than some of you are making it out to be. The US in comparison has the capacity for food independence, energy independence, market independence, and a younger demographic profile.
None of that speaks to aesthetic and lifestyle concerns that are only loosely related to material prosperity of course.
That Europe 10-20 years in the future is pretty much Japan today and living there is relatively pleasant. The continent basically just needs some Abenomics to get everyone a job and the ageing isn't that big of a deal. I've talked to people in the US who blow tens of thousands of dollars on private schools just to get their kids a middle-class education. In the Netherlands, they'll give you an education for free, public transport and you're set basically.
The situation is more complicated if you're a single guy with a STEM degree, then going to the US is a pretty good choice. As a family, hell no the US working hours and safety net looks bad.
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On July 07 2020 06:39 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2020 03:18 IgnE wrote:
I understand why people think Europe is a better place to raise kids right now but looking 10-20 years down the road it is not at all clear to me that Europe will be a great place to live with job prospects. There are already (ie before covid) a lot of European countries with high unemployment, specifically youth unemployment. The demographics don’t look good. The debt burdens in a federated Euro system don’t look good. I am not saying the whole thing will definitely crumble but if you are thinking about emigrating in order to bet on the next generation’s prospects the situation is far more complicated than some of you are making it out to be. The US in comparison has the capacity for food independence, energy independence, market independence, and a younger demographic profile.
None of that speaks to aesthetic and lifestyle concerns that are only loosely related to material prosperity of course. That Europe 10-20 years in the future is pretty much Japan today and living there is relatively pleasant. The continent basically just needs some Abenomics to get everyone a job and the ageing isn't that big of a deal. I've talked to people in the US who blow tens of thousands of dollars on private schools just to get their kids a middle-class education. In the Netherlands, they'll give you an education for free, public transport and you're set basically. The situation is more complicated if you're a single guy with a STEM degree, then going to the US is a pretty good choice. As a family, hell no the US working hours and safety net looks bad.
Maybe, we will see. Japan automated and was able to export. It’s questionable whether there will be a similar market for European consumption goods when the population ages another 20 years.
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Trump sending international students back to their home countries if their classes are remote kind of makes sense TBH. If there is literally zero benefit to them being here, do they really need to stay?
I still think our economy and workforce benefits from having college-enrolled and eventually college educated people continue living here, but if we already decided their only reason for admission was to take classes, it kind of feels like it makes sense. But I think it is missing a lot of the benefits. We benefit from having these students here. Its a clear net-negative sending them back, but I can somewhat understand the logic.
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On July 07 2020 06:09 IgnE wrote:
How do you interpret the last two sentences of his post? I was attempting to head off another multi-page set of posts where people try to get him to answer the question with a rationale for his conclusions and all he does is repeat the conclusions you want an explanation for. Just accept that what he primarily means when he says that Obama was “bad for black people” is that Obama was not anti-capitalist. If you minimally believe capitalism is killing the planet through global warming then everything logically follows. You’d only be left with the question “well why say ‘black people’ instead of ‘people’?” Well it’s obvious, isn’t it?
I just don't understand why you presume to know what the answers are. And no, despite your extremely persuasive suggestion, I will not accept GH's primary meaning until I hear it from him. We can delve deeper into the topic as the conversation allows, but I see no need to jump to such a ridiculous conclusion before we've even had a chance to explore it.
It seems like you are trying to steer the thread away from a rabbit hole that has tripped us in the past, I just really don't think this is the way to do it. One of the pillars of this thread is to LISTEN - your post completely misses that mark.
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EPT
