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On July 01 2020 01:11 ChristianS wrote:
Quick Q: where does that tweet say Mount Rushmore is racist?
It says that Rushmore was built on sacred native territory.
Which I can agree on but Rushmore is in my knowledge the largest sculpture in the world?
I'm full on finishing the crazyhorse sculpture I think was supposed to be the native one. Mass projects like that are what history is remembered from.
I'm a guy who is pro statues btw. As a Christian I'm a little anxious about the deifying nature of turning people into giant pieces of art but I think its a valuable marker of what a society values. Mount Rushmore is more than just a giant artwork its a massive cultural statement of American supremacy in the world and a cultural question of who is a pantheon of any field.
Christofer Columbus statues should be replaced with statues of Bruno Sanmartino. Bruno was the positive role model for Italians in America and was an incredibly important figure for New york and for Italian Americans.
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On July 01 2020 02:31 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2020 01:11 ChristianS wrote:
Quick Q: where does that tweet say Mount Rushmore is racist? It says that Rushmore was built on sacred native territory. Which I can agree on but Rushmore is in my knowledge the largest sculpture in the world? I'm full on finishing the crazyhorse sculpture I think was supposed to be the native one. Mass projects like that are what history is remembered from. I'm a guy who is pro statues btw. As a Christian I'm a little anxious about the deifying nature of turning people into giant pieces of art but I think its a valuable marker of what a society values. Mount Rushmore is more than just a giant artwork its a massive cultural statement of American supremacy in the world and a cultural question of who is a pantheon of any field. Christofer Columbus statues should be replaced with statues of Bruno Sanmartino. Bruno was the positive role model for Italians in America and was an incredibly important figure for New york and for Italian Americans.
What are your thoughts on making statues that represents the ideas, rather than the people? Statue of the declaration of independence etc
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On July 01 2020 00:22 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2020 12:06 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 30 2020 08:57 Wombat_NI wrote:On June 30 2020 08:19 Velr wrote:
And what Obama said matters how? The 80 are now 40 years ago... You know what was 40 years before the 80? the second world war. Another 40? We are not even at World war One (and far before MLK and these other kinda important things that happened in the US).
I frequent left tube, too often for my sanity, and the main problem people like you have, is that you alienate anyone that isn't 100% on board with "the revolution", which is barely, if at all, defined and just some ghost figure any "trube believer" leftist seems to have in his head. It seems to be more like a sort of possession than an actual structured idea.
It's basically some teenage dream gone big thanks to streamers/youtube videos... It' would be kinda cute, if it wouldn't be so sad and futile.
But well, I most like haven't read the right books or pdfs or random bs on homepage xyz to give a qualified comment. Most of GH’s positions are lifted verbatim from my YouTube channel, alas I have just realised I have had my uploads to all be set to unlisted. Probably explains the difficulty in sourcing them. + Show Spoiler +I’m quite fond of the left tube content I consume, would like to consume some right equivalents that aren’t trash. I know it’s out there somewhere, just haven’t been directed there either by individuals or by YouTube shepherding me there.
There may be an occasional maddening lack of a robust structural plan for hypothesised alternative societies, I don’t particularly see that being the point in much such content.
In a crude sense what’s the point in working within the confines of a hegemonic system and the flaws within without making people aware that said system isn’t a neutral or natural state of affairs?
In general what I see is yes, not often particularly diplomatic but it does seem to be content created to punch through those kind of barriers first, sort the nitty gritty later.
I’m not personally a vegan (yet), although I do intercede in heated discussions on the topic a fair amount. Not necessarily the best analogy, although the best I can pull from my arse at this hour.
Aside from the ‘I love my steaks’ crowd, most pushback I get tends to be couched in practical concerns like converting the world’s food economy radically to accommodate it.
My position is that it’s largely irrelevant, humanity by and large is morally fine with consuming animal flesh, and will indulge in crazy mental gymnastics because it’s so normalised in society. if that general consensus radically shifted, humanity would pretty easily figure a way out to make it workable.
We can do pretty remarkable things if the collective will is there.
Under no circumstances are you to share those videos. They'll be onto me and my legion. Sharing those videos will result in an immediate demotion to tier 3 minion and 5 battles in the thunderdome. + Show Spoiler +I've already said too much In all seriousness though I don't even know any you tubers with my politics. Closest that comes to mind is that Inuuendo studios video that Neb and IgnE referred to but one look at who he follows on twitter told me all I needed to know about why his video on the protests ended like it did. Why did his video on the protests end like it did?
He almost exclusively follows white people. Which indicates (along with the analysis in the video) to me that's who he reads and talks with too.
Is he offering real solutions or taking blows from truncheons himself?
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On July 01 2020 02:26 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2020 02:03 Danglars wrote:On July 01 2020 01:36 Wombat_NI wrote:
That’s quite a lot to unpack at once Mr Danglars. ‘I never fully understand the whole he's-stupid about face to he-read-understood-did-it-intentionally, but I'm not going to puzzle for hours trying to understand.’
I’m not really seeing an about-face, at least within here. Trump can behave incredibly stupidly, i.e. some of his ludicrous pronouncements around corona, and be fully aware of what he’s doing in other spheres, i.e. dogwhistling.
One doesn’t have to be the sharpest tool in the shed to know that ‘white power’ has extremely negative connotations and history attached to it over and above other more plausibly loaded framings like ‘all lives matter’.
Biden’s not saying a whole lot on a whole lot these days, especially stuff the ostensible left feels are important issues, that he’s not commenting on statue defacement isn’t much of a priority, but yes he should have some position on that and be asked about it too.
As per the religious liberty ruling I’ll have to do more reading on what the case was about and return with my thoughts then. I do see the “obvious dogwhistling” and “obviously oblivious” as mainly a matter of special pleading. Trump’s tweeted all manner of idiotic stuff, and he likes all kind of counter protesters to the woke iconoclasts of the moment. It fits with retweeting it for the meta point of response (and Trump’s big about punching back in whatever stupid way he can), and taking it down once someone points out the white power words. So I’ll agree to disagree with you there. Biden is still running for president, and his campaigns silence on all kinds of matters of the day is self defeating. He has a heavy lift to prove himself mentally able to string sentences together into a point, and hiding from the public eye except for small, select appearances aids that narrative. And reporters praise his genius just laying low, if anybody was wondering how the media would respond to 4-8 years of Biden. What are you disagreeing with? It fits entirely with my criticism of how Trump uses Twitter as a form of ‘owning the libs’ regardless of what villainry it emboldens. Specifically the second point, you can do the former without retweeting guys shouting ‘white power’, be it careless or calculating the inclusion of such rhetoric in the Twitter output is just generally a bad move, both for general decency but increasingly in terms of self-interested political aggrandisement. Even centrist types who’ve previously given Trump the benefit of the doubt re dogwhistling are changing their tune. I haven’t altered my arguments or put them forth more convincingly, he’s just throwing so much of it out that he’s doing it to himself.
The question is the usefulness of retweets like that to support arguments that Trump is a racist/supports such and such policies because he is a racist. You can read back ten or twenty pages to see arguments in that forum. You personally observe some centrists changing their mind on Trump and dogwhistling, so it shows you're aware of it. What you're transitioning to, that Trump's careless speech and disregard for social customs about how to talk ends up giving cover to actual racists and white supremacists, is quite another thing. I've said the same about Democrats that called McCain and Romney racists. They don't actually intend to further causes they don't support, but they actually advance them and degrade the discourse such that somebody like Trump is necessary to show the fruits of their tireless labor. The example of Trump, and hopefully the re-election of Trump, may roll back the "educated class" liberal use of racist/sexist and political correctness norms, seeing what the backlash and rejection of such norms will take. Maybe I'm digressing a little bit with that comment.
Even take the video. Protesters in The Village are facing counter-protesters and are jeering at the Trump supporters by calling them racist. What to do when people call you racist for supporting President Trump? Well, one reaction is to heighten the meaninglessness of that term "Oh yeah? You're gonna go with that? Ok, White Power, f***ers." Highlight absurdity by being even more absurd. Using more modern language, you may call it rejecting the entire system of shouting racist at stuff you don't like. The presidential retweet should never have happened, and was rightly taken down, but it's no more actual support for white supremacy than defund the police is actual police reform.
I can get behind your general decency argument, which is why I couldn't support Trump in the only presidential primary that mattered. It should also hurt Trump as it probably has. It's just the people that go one step further that I have a problem with, and really want to play special pleader with Trump to go from stupid to planned whenever it fits their conclusions. The conclusion is known, and the evidence is picked such to fit the conclusion.
And, as if Biden's team reads this thread, Biden took questions on the statues and actually made the distinction between confederate statues and founding fathers and columbus. That's the kind of move he needs to get in the habit of making if he wants to defeat Trump. It would be stronger if he outright condemned the lawless teardowns, but I think people will accept what he said today. Hillary had a higher lead over Trump at this point of the election season than Biden has over Trump. And contrary to last time, Biden doesn't have such a large disgust reaction as Hillary, and Trump has eroded support in suburbs and evangelicals.
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What's bizarre to me is if Democrats discovered Biden was worse than Trump (no idea what that would take) it's not like they would vote for Trump (the lesser evil) instead. So it seems odd to think that would happen with Republicans.
The other idea is that maybe they won't vote, but Democrats say that's just as bad as voting for the bad guy so they wouldn't do that either.
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On July 01 2020 03:16 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2020 02:26 Wombat_NI wrote:On July 01 2020 02:03 Danglars wrote:On July 01 2020 01:36 Wombat_NI wrote:
That’s quite a lot to unpack at once Mr Danglars. ‘I never fully understand the whole he's-stupid about face to he-read-understood-did-it-intentionally, but I'm not going to puzzle for hours trying to understand.’
I’m not really seeing an about-face, at least within here. Trump can behave incredibly stupidly, i.e. some of his ludicrous pronouncements around corona, and be fully aware of what he’s doing in other spheres, i.e. dogwhistling.
One doesn’t have to be the sharpest tool in the shed to know that ‘white power’ has extremely negative connotations and history attached to it over and above other more plausibly loaded framings like ‘all lives matter’.
Biden’s not saying a whole lot on a whole lot these days, especially stuff the ostensible left feels are important issues, that he’s not commenting on statue defacement isn’t much of a priority, but yes he should have some position on that and be asked about it too.
As per the religious liberty ruling I’ll have to do more reading on what the case was about and return with my thoughts then. I do see the “obvious dogwhistling” and “obviously oblivious” as mainly a matter of special pleading. Trump’s tweeted all manner of idiotic stuff, and he likes all kind of counter protesters to the woke iconoclasts of the moment. It fits with retweeting it for the meta point of response (and Trump’s big about punching back in whatever stupid way he can), and taking it down once someone points out the white power words. So I’ll agree to disagree with you there. Biden is still running for president, and his campaigns silence on all kinds of matters of the day is self defeating. He has a heavy lift to prove himself mentally able to string sentences together into a point, and hiding from the public eye except for small, select appearances aids that narrative. And reporters praise his genius just laying low, if anybody was wondering how the media would respond to 4-8 years of Biden. What are you disagreeing with? It fits entirely with my criticism of how Trump uses Twitter as a form of ‘owning the libs’ regardless of what villainry it emboldens. Specifically the second point, you can do the former without retweeting guys shouting ‘white power’, be it careless or calculating the inclusion of such rhetoric in the Twitter output is just generally a bad move, both for general decency but increasingly in terms of self-interested political aggrandisement. Even centrist types who’ve previously given Trump the benefit of the doubt re dogwhistling are changing their tune. I haven’t altered my arguments or put them forth more convincingly, he’s just throwing so much of it out that he’s doing it to himself. The question is the usefulness of retweets like that to support arguments that Trump is a racist/supports such and such policies because he is a racist. You can read back ten or twenty pages to see arguments in that forum. You personally observe some centrists changing their mind on Trump and dogwhistling, so it shows you're aware of it. What you're transitioning to, that Trump's careless speech and disregard for social customs about how to talk ends up giving cover to actual racists and white supremacists, is quite another thing. I've said the same about Democrats that called McCain and Romney racists. They don't actually intend to further causes they don't support, but they actually advance them and degrade the discourse such that somebody like Trump is necessary to show the fruits of their tireless labor. The example of Trump, and hopefully the re-election of Trump, may roll back the "educated class" liberal use of racist/sexist and political correctness norms, seeing what the backlash and rejection of such norms will take. Maybe I'm digressing a little bit with that comment. Even take the video. Protesters in The Village are facing counter-protesters and are jeering at the Trump supporters by calling them racist. What to do when people call you racist for supporting President Trump? Well, one reaction is to heighten the meaninglessness of that term "Oh yeah? You're gonna go with that? Ok, White Power, f***ers." Highlight absurdity by being even more absurd. Using more modern language, you may call it rejecting the entire system of shouting racist at stuff you don't like. The presidential retweet should never have happened, and was rightly taken down, but it's no more actual support for white supremacy than defund the police is actual police reform. I can get behind your general decency argument, which is why I couldn't support Trump in the only presidential primary that mattered. It should also hurt Trump as it probably has. It's just the people that go one step further that I have a problem with, and really want to play special pleader with Trump to go from stupid to planned whenever it fits their conclusions. The conclusion is known, and the evidence is picked such to fit the conclusion. And, as if Biden's team reads this thread, Biden took questions on the statues and actually made the distinction between confederate statues and founding fathers and columbus. That's the kind of move he needs to get in the habit of making if he wants to defeat Trump. It would be stronger if he outright condemned the lawless teardowns, but I think people will accept what he said today. Hillary had a higher lead over Trump at this point of the election season than Biden has over Trump. And contrary to last time, Biden doesn't have such a large disgust reaction as Hillary, and Trump has eroded support in suburbs and evangelicals.
I really hate that argument.
This is coming from the people who "call a spade a spade", "tell it like it is", and who hate all the "snowflakes" who need "save spaces". Yet if you call someone tweeting racist stuff and saying racist stuff a racist, that is suddenly really problematic.
I think the group of people who get angry about you calling Trump a racist, and who thus change who they vote for to Trump consists of roughly zero people.
It is a sad state of affairs, and i generally dislike the hightened level of partisanship. But Trump really is just that bad. And i cannot understand people voting for him. It is just absurd. I can understand people voting for our German conservative party. I do not agree with them, but i can understand them, and i am pretty sure that i can have a reasonable conversation with them despite political differences. Probably not with our far-right AfD guys, though.
But Trump...i just don't get it. I don't understand how you can view him, and honestly come to the conclusion that he is not everything people say about him. He doesn't hide it. He openly says, does and tweets racist stuff. He openly says, does and tweets corrupt stuff. He openly says, does and tweets incompetent stuff.
And at this point, i simply do not see that mystical person who would stop voting for Trump if people just stopped being mean to him for voting for Trump, which Danglars claims to be a relevant amount of people. The people who are willing to vote for Trump right now, after everything we have seen, will not change that, no matter how nice you are to them, how careful you are to tiptoe around their sensibilities. This whole "Oh no, now you did it, you called me a racist, i totally would have listened to you, but now i won't and i will vote for Trump" thing is just smokes and mirrors. Anyone saying that would have voted for Trump, no matter what you say to them. We can just hope that there are not enough of them in the few states that matter.
I do not think that we should go around and call everyone voting for Trump a racist. A reasonably large group of them probably are, but some might not be.
You should absolutely say that Trump is a racist. Because he doesn't really hide that, at all. And Trumpists don't really show a lot of willingness to compromise, or to talk about issues.
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Every Trump voter did a racist thing voting for Trump. That's not really up for debate imo. Whether it was their intention to do a racist thing is supplementary to whether it was racist or not.
What it says about them as a person is also a separate assessment. So I wouldn't say "every Trump voter is a racist" but I will say again voting for Trump is a racist act.
@Simberto they say that because Democrats will endlessly try to win them over as long as they pretend Trump's racism/behavior bothers them too. It just doesn't bother them enough to be unacceptable unless Democrats abandon any leftward agenda.
Spoiler: When Democrats abandon that agenda Republicans just push for more shifting to the right. Which was my point on Obama. His signature legislation is basically a rehash of Nixon's healthcare bill that Democrats of the time rejected as too far right.
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Northern Ireland24666 Posts
On July 01 2020 03:22 GreenHorizons wrote:
What's bizarre to me is if Democrats discovered Biden was worse than Trump (no idea what that would take) it's not like they would vote for Trump (the lesser evil) instead. So it seems odd to think that would happen with Republicans.
The other idea is that maybe they won't vote, but Democrats say that's just as bad as voting for the bad guy so they wouldn't do that either.
I’m not expecting them not to vote for Trump at all, it is a lesser of two evils calculation. It doesn’t preclude one from criticising his more egregious behaviour.
We’ll see how things progress going down the line, I feel it benefits my own particular views but hey we’ll see.
If one can’t even strongly condemn some of this Tweets or see how they’re racially problematic, what’s the point in attempting to compromise on anything?
Now personally I’d prefer something less partisan in terms of a wider political environment, but if the partisan lines are drawn as far as the ‘can’t even criticise Trump’s blatantly problematic output’, then how can you maintain the position that a large chunk of conservative America can be compromised with?
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On July 01 2020 02:31 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2020 01:11 ChristianS wrote:
Quick Q: where does that tweet say Mount Rushmore is racist? It says that Rushmore was built on sacred native territory. Which I can agree on but Rushmore is in my knowledge the largest sculpture in the world? I'm full on finishing the crazyhorse sculpture I think was supposed to be the native one. Mass projects like that are what history is remembered from. I'm a guy who is pro statues btw. As a Christian I'm a little anxious about the deifying nature of turning people into giant pieces of art but I think its a valuable marker of what a society values. Mount Rushmore is more than just a giant artwork its a massive cultural statement of American supremacy in the world and a cultural question of who is a pantheon of any field. Christofer Columbus statues should be replaced with statues of Bruno Sanmartino. Bruno was the positive role model for Italians in America and was an incredibly important figure for New york and for Italian Americans.
Yeah, the Democrats tweet doesn’t say Mt. Rushmore is racist, it says (implies) holding a white supremacist rally at Mt. Rushmore is racist. I think GH might be pleasantly surprised if the Democrats were out there saying “taking a Native American holy site and carving a bunch of presidents’ faces in it was racist,” but they weren’t.
I’m not sure if it’s a reading comprehension issue? A too good to check issue? It might be the most Democrat thing I can imagine to say “a white supremacist rally at a native american holy site is racist,” get accused of being too radical, and retract the statement.
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On July 01 2020 02:52 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2020 00:22 IgnE wrote:On June 30 2020 12:06 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 30 2020 08:57 Wombat_NI wrote:On June 30 2020 08:19 Velr wrote:
And what Obama said matters how? The 80 are now 40 years ago... You know what was 40 years before the 80? the second world war. Another 40? We are not even at World war One (and far before MLK and these other kinda important things that happened in the US).
I frequent left tube, too often for my sanity, and the main problem people like you have, is that you alienate anyone that isn't 100% on board with "the revolution", which is barely, if at all, defined and just some ghost figure any "trube believer" leftist seems to have in his head. It seems to be more like a sort of possession than an actual structured idea.
It's basically some teenage dream gone big thanks to streamers/youtube videos... It' would be kinda cute, if it wouldn't be so sad and futile.
But well, I most like haven't read the right books or pdfs or random bs on homepage xyz to give a qualified comment. Most of GH’s positions are lifted verbatim from my YouTube channel, alas I have just realised I have had my uploads to all be set to unlisted. Probably explains the difficulty in sourcing them. + Show Spoiler +I’m quite fond of the left tube content I consume, would like to consume some right equivalents that aren’t trash. I know it’s out there somewhere, just haven’t been directed there either by individuals or by YouTube shepherding me there.
There may be an occasional maddening lack of a robust structural plan for hypothesised alternative societies, I don’t particularly see that being the point in much such content.
In a crude sense what’s the point in working within the confines of a hegemonic system and the flaws within without making people aware that said system isn’t a neutral or natural state of affairs?
In general what I see is yes, not often particularly diplomatic but it does seem to be content created to punch through those kind of barriers first, sort the nitty gritty later.
I’m not personally a vegan (yet), although I do intercede in heated discussions on the topic a fair amount. Not necessarily the best analogy, although the best I can pull from my arse at this hour.
Aside from the ‘I love my steaks’ crowd, most pushback I get tends to be couched in practical concerns like converting the world’s food economy radically to accommodate it.
My position is that it’s largely irrelevant, humanity by and large is morally fine with consuming animal flesh, and will indulge in crazy mental gymnastics because it’s so normalised in society. if that general consensus radically shifted, humanity would pretty easily figure a way out to make it workable.
We can do pretty remarkable things if the collective will is there.
Under no circumstances are you to share those videos. They'll be onto me and my legion. Sharing those videos will result in an immediate demotion to tier 3 minion and 5 battles in the thunderdome. + Show Spoiler +I've already said too much In all seriousness though I don't even know any you tubers with my politics. Closest that comes to mind is that Inuuendo studios video that Neb and IgnE referred to but one look at who he follows on twitter told me all I needed to know about why his video on the protests ended like it did. Why did his video on the protests end like it did? He almost exclusively follows white people. Which indicates (along with the analysis in the video) to me that's who he reads and talks with too. Is he offering real solutions or taking blows from truncheons himself?
Idk man I see a lot of retweets from black people in his twitter timeline. I scrolled down quite a bit and my cursory counting puts 30-40% of his retweets as retweets from BIPOC people or BIPOC-oriented organizations. I can’t see what he follows because I don’t have a twitter account (at least I don’t think I can).
I presume your last question is rhetorical but just out of curiosity have you taken truncheon blows?
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On July 01 2020 02:51 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2020 02:31 Sermokala wrote:On July 01 2020 01:11 ChristianS wrote:
Quick Q: where does that tweet say Mount Rushmore is racist? It says that Rushmore was built on sacred native territory. Which I can agree on but Rushmore is in my knowledge the largest sculpture in the world? I'm full on finishing the crazyhorse sculpture I think was supposed to be the native one. Mass projects like that are what history is remembered from. I'm a guy who is pro statues btw. As a Christian I'm a little anxious about the deifying nature of turning people into giant pieces of art but I think its a valuable marker of what a society values. Mount Rushmore is more than just a giant artwork its a massive cultural statement of American supremacy in the world and a cultural question of who is a pantheon of any field. Christofer Columbus statues should be replaced with statues of Bruno Sanmartino. Bruno was the positive role model for Italians in America and was an incredibly important figure for New york and for Italian Americans. What are your thoughts on making statues that represents the ideas, rather than the people? Statue of the declaration of independence etc
I think that they are inseparable. You make a statue of a person because of what ideas the person represents moreso than what the person was. The four faces were selected as the founding, growth, preservation, and development of the united states into the empire it was when it was built.
Bruno was a carnival act that used racist and xenophobic stereotypes to make money. But he represented what was a minority who was reviled as being poor criminal types who "weren't real Americans" who became accepted by the greater culture as a result of him to the point where a pepperoni pizza is as much a symbol of "Americana" as anything else.
A statue of the deceleration of independence isn't about the words in the deceleration of independence but its historical marker as the start of the revolution. The Magna carta was an incredible failure by aristocrats to reign in a warlord that was immediately disowned by everyone involved. but its the "best" marker for how English Parliament developed.
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On July 01 2020 04:04 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2020 02:52 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 01 2020 00:22 IgnE wrote:On June 30 2020 12:06 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 30 2020 08:57 Wombat_NI wrote:On June 30 2020 08:19 Velr wrote:
And what Obama said matters how? The 80 are now 40 years ago... You know what was 40 years before the 80? the second world war. Another 40? We are not even at World war One (and far before MLK and these other kinda important things that happened in the US).
I frequent left tube, too often for my sanity, and the main problem people like you have, is that you alienate anyone that isn't 100% on board with "the revolution", which is barely, if at all, defined and just some ghost figure any "trube believer" leftist seems to have in his head. It seems to be more like a sort of possession than an actual structured idea.
It's basically some teenage dream gone big thanks to streamers/youtube videos... It' would be kinda cute, if it wouldn't be so sad and futile.
But well, I most like haven't read the right books or pdfs or random bs on homepage xyz to give a qualified comment. Most of GH’s positions are lifted verbatim from my YouTube channel, alas I have just realised I have had my uploads to all be set to unlisted. Probably explains the difficulty in sourcing them. + Show Spoiler +I’m quite fond of the left tube content I consume, would like to consume some right equivalents that aren’t trash. I know it’s out there somewhere, just haven’t been directed there either by individuals or by YouTube shepherding me there.
There may be an occasional maddening lack of a robust structural plan for hypothesised alternative societies, I don’t particularly see that being the point in much such content.
In a crude sense what’s the point in working within the confines of a hegemonic system and the flaws within without making people aware that said system isn’t a neutral or natural state of affairs?
In general what I see is yes, not often particularly diplomatic but it does seem to be content created to punch through those kind of barriers first, sort the nitty gritty later.
I’m not personally a vegan (yet), although I do intercede in heated discussions on the topic a fair amount. Not necessarily the best analogy, although the best I can pull from my arse at this hour.
Aside from the ‘I love my steaks’ crowd, most pushback I get tends to be couched in practical concerns like converting the world’s food economy radically to accommodate it.
My position is that it’s largely irrelevant, humanity by and large is morally fine with consuming animal flesh, and will indulge in crazy mental gymnastics because it’s so normalised in society. if that general consensus radically shifted, humanity would pretty easily figure a way out to make it workable.
We can do pretty remarkable things if the collective will is there.
Under no circumstances are you to share those videos. They'll be onto me and my legion. Sharing those videos will result in an immediate demotion to tier 3 minion and 5 battles in the thunderdome. + Show Spoiler +I've already said too much In all seriousness though I don't even know any you tubers with my politics. Closest that comes to mind is that Inuuendo studios video that Neb and IgnE referred to but one look at who he follows on twitter told me all I needed to know about why his video on the protests ended like it did. Why did his video on the protests end like it did? He almost exclusively follows white people. Which indicates (along with the analysis in the video) to me that's who he reads and talks with too. Is he offering real solutions or taking blows from truncheons himself? Idk man I see a lot of retweets from black people in his twitter timeline. I scrolled down quite a bit and my cursory counting puts 30-40% of his retweets as retweets from BIPOC people or BIPOC-oriented organizations. I can’t see what he follows because I don’t have a twitter account (at least I don’t think I can). I presume your last question is rhetorical but just out of curiosity have you taken truncheon blows?
His timeline is overwhelmingly just him but I'll give him credit for not mostly retweeting the almost exclusively white people he follows.
In the literal sense? Yes. In the metaphorical sense? Every day. You?
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On July 01 2020 03:56 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2020 03:22 GreenHorizons wrote:
What's bizarre to me is if Democrats discovered Biden was worse than Trump (no idea what that would take) it's not like they would vote for Trump (the lesser evil) instead. So it seems odd to think that would happen with Republicans.
The other idea is that maybe they won't vote, but Democrats say that's just as bad as voting for the bad guy so they wouldn't do that either. I’m not expecting them not to vote for Trump at all, it is a lesser of two evils calculation. It doesn’t preclude one from criticising his more egregious behaviour. We’ll see how things progress going down the line, I feel it benefits my own particular views but hey we’ll see. If one can’t even strongly condemn some of this Tweets or see how they’re racially problematic, what’s the point in attempting to compromise on anything? Now personally I’d prefer something less partisan in terms of a wider political environment, but if the partisan lines are drawn as far as the ‘can’t even criticise Trump’s blatantly problematic output’, then how can you maintain the position that a large chunk of conservative America can be compromised with?
What are you going to compromise with them on? The last two democratic presidents are going to be known most for "the era of big government is over" and "Obamacare but actually based on the idea of Mit Romney". And now you have a presidential candidate who would honestly wouldn't be out of place as a republican in the midwest I think Tim Paulenty would have more-progressive credentials than Joe Biden.
The national conversation shifted so far to the right over the last 20-30 years that conservatives are left with thinking Roe vs wade is a legitimate debate to have. where getting conservative judges to entrench their position is the only thing that they care about anymore.
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On July 01 2020 04:17 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2020 04:04 IgnE wrote:On July 01 2020 02:52 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 01 2020 00:22 IgnE wrote:On June 30 2020 12:06 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 30 2020 08:57 Wombat_NI wrote:On June 30 2020 08:19 Velr wrote:
And what Obama said matters how? The 80 are now 40 years ago... You know what was 40 years before the 80? the second world war. Another 40? We are not even at World war One (and far before MLK and these other kinda important things that happened in the US).
I frequent left tube, too often for my sanity, and the main problem people like you have, is that you alienate anyone that isn't 100% on board with "the revolution", which is barely, if at all, defined and just some ghost figure any "trube believer" leftist seems to have in his head. It seems to be more like a sort of possession than an actual structured idea.
It's basically some teenage dream gone big thanks to streamers/youtube videos... It' would be kinda cute, if it wouldn't be so sad and futile.
But well, I most like haven't read the right books or pdfs or random bs on homepage xyz to give a qualified comment. Most of GH’s positions are lifted verbatim from my YouTube channel, alas I have just realised I have had my uploads to all be set to unlisted. Probably explains the difficulty in sourcing them. + Show Spoiler +I’m quite fond of the left tube content I consume, would like to consume some right equivalents that aren’t trash. I know it’s out there somewhere, just haven’t been directed there either by individuals or by YouTube shepherding me there.
There may be an occasional maddening lack of a robust structural plan for hypothesised alternative societies, I don’t particularly see that being the point in much such content.
In a crude sense what’s the point in working within the confines of a hegemonic system and the flaws within without making people aware that said system isn’t a neutral or natural state of affairs?
In general what I see is yes, not often particularly diplomatic but it does seem to be content created to punch through those kind of barriers first, sort the nitty gritty later.
I’m not personally a vegan (yet), although I do intercede in heated discussions on the topic a fair amount. Not necessarily the best analogy, although the best I can pull from my arse at this hour.
Aside from the ‘I love my steaks’ crowd, most pushback I get tends to be couched in practical concerns like converting the world’s food economy radically to accommodate it.
My position is that it’s largely irrelevant, humanity by and large is morally fine with consuming animal flesh, and will indulge in crazy mental gymnastics because it’s so normalised in society. if that general consensus radically shifted, humanity would pretty easily figure a way out to make it workable.
We can do pretty remarkable things if the collective will is there.
Under no circumstances are you to share those videos. They'll be onto me and my legion. Sharing those videos will result in an immediate demotion to tier 3 minion and 5 battles in the thunderdome. + Show Spoiler +I've already said too much In all seriousness though I don't even know any you tubers with my politics. Closest that comes to mind is that Inuuendo studios video that Neb and IgnE referred to but one look at who he follows on twitter told me all I needed to know about why his video on the protests ended like it did. Why did his video on the protests end like it did? He almost exclusively follows white people. Which indicates (along with the analysis in the video) to me that's who he reads and talks with too. Is he offering real solutions or taking blows from truncheons himself? Idk man I see a lot of retweets from black people in his twitter timeline. I scrolled down quite a bit and my cursory counting puts 30-40% of his retweets as retweets from BIPOC people or BIPOC-oriented organizations. I can’t see what he follows because I don’t have a twitter account (at least I don’t think I can). I presume your last question is rhetorical but just out of curiosity have you taken truncheon blows? His timeline is overwhelmingly just him but I'll give him credit for not mostly retweeting the almost exclusively white people he follows. In the literal sense? Yes. In the metaphorical sense? Every day. You?
No I’ve never been hit with a truncheon and would rather not be. I prefer the pen to the sword.
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On July 01 2020 04:35 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2020 04:17 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 01 2020 04:04 IgnE wrote:On July 01 2020 02:52 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 01 2020 00:22 IgnE wrote:On June 30 2020 12:06 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 30 2020 08:57 Wombat_NI wrote:On June 30 2020 08:19 Velr wrote:
And what Obama said matters how? The 80 are now 40 years ago... You know what was 40 years before the 80? the second world war. Another 40? We are not even at World war One (and far before MLK and these other kinda important things that happened in the US).
I frequent left tube, too often for my sanity, and the main problem people like you have, is that you alienate anyone that isn't 100% on board with "the revolution", which is barely, if at all, defined and just some ghost figure any "trube believer" leftist seems to have in his head. It seems to be more like a sort of possession than an actual structured idea.
It's basically some teenage dream gone big thanks to streamers/youtube videos... It' would be kinda cute, if it wouldn't be so sad and futile.
But well, I most like haven't read the right books or pdfs or random bs on homepage xyz to give a qualified comment. Most of GH’s positions are lifted verbatim from my YouTube channel, alas I have just realised I have had my uploads to all be set to unlisted. Probably explains the difficulty in sourcing them. + Show Spoiler +I’m quite fond of the left tube content I consume, would like to consume some right equivalents that aren’t trash. I know it’s out there somewhere, just haven’t been directed there either by individuals or by YouTube shepherding me there.
There may be an occasional maddening lack of a robust structural plan for hypothesised alternative societies, I don’t particularly see that being the point in much such content.
In a crude sense what’s the point in working within the confines of a hegemonic system and the flaws within without making people aware that said system isn’t a neutral or natural state of affairs?
In general what I see is yes, not often particularly diplomatic but it does seem to be content created to punch through those kind of barriers first, sort the nitty gritty later.
I’m not personally a vegan (yet), although I do intercede in heated discussions on the topic a fair amount. Not necessarily the best analogy, although the best I can pull from my arse at this hour.
Aside from the ‘I love my steaks’ crowd, most pushback I get tends to be couched in practical concerns like converting the world’s food economy radically to accommodate it.
My position is that it’s largely irrelevant, humanity by and large is morally fine with consuming animal flesh, and will indulge in crazy mental gymnastics because it’s so normalised in society. if that general consensus radically shifted, humanity would pretty easily figure a way out to make it workable.
We can do pretty remarkable things if the collective will is there.
Under no circumstances are you to share those videos. They'll be onto me and my legion. Sharing those videos will result in an immediate demotion to tier 3 minion and 5 battles in the thunderdome. + Show Spoiler +I've already said too much In all seriousness though I don't even know any you tubers with my politics. Closest that comes to mind is that Inuuendo studios video that Neb and IgnE referred to but one look at who he follows on twitter told me all I needed to know about why his video on the protests ended like it did. Why did his video on the protests end like it did? He almost exclusively follows white people. Which indicates (along with the analysis in the video) to me that's who he reads and talks with too. Is he offering real solutions or taking blows from truncheons himself? Idk man I see a lot of retweets from black people in his twitter timeline. I scrolled down quite a bit and my cursory counting puts 30-40% of his retweets as retweets from BIPOC people or BIPOC-oriented organizations. I can’t see what he follows because I don’t have a twitter account (at least I don’t think I can). I presume your last question is rhetorical but just out of curiosity have you taken truncheon blows? His timeline is overwhelmingly just him but I'll give him credit for not mostly retweeting the almost exclusively white people he follows. In the literal sense? Yes. In the metaphorical sense? Every day. You? No I’ve never been hit with a truncheon and would rather not be. I prefer the pen to the sword.
Let's hear the plan then, or this performance is going to get eviscerated by the reviewers.
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On July 01 2020 03:35 Simberto wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2020 03:16 Danglars wrote:On July 01 2020 02:26 Wombat_NI wrote:On July 01 2020 02:03 Danglars wrote:On July 01 2020 01:36 Wombat_NI wrote:
That’s quite a lot to unpack at once Mr Danglars. ‘I never fully understand the whole he's-stupid about face to he-read-understood-did-it-intentionally, but I'm not going to puzzle for hours trying to understand.’
I’m not really seeing an about-face, at least within here. Trump can behave incredibly stupidly, i.e. some of his ludicrous pronouncements around corona, and be fully aware of what he’s doing in other spheres, i.e. dogwhistling.
One doesn’t have to be the sharpest tool in the shed to know that ‘white power’ has extremely negative connotations and history attached to it over and above other more plausibly loaded framings like ‘all lives matter’.
Biden’s not saying a whole lot on a whole lot these days, especially stuff the ostensible left feels are important issues, that he’s not commenting on statue defacement isn’t much of a priority, but yes he should have some position on that and be asked about it too.
As per the religious liberty ruling I’ll have to do more reading on what the case was about and return with my thoughts then. I do see the “obvious dogwhistling” and “obviously oblivious” as mainly a matter of special pleading. Trump’s tweeted all manner of idiotic stuff, and he likes all kind of counter protesters to the woke iconoclasts of the moment. It fits with retweeting it for the meta point of response (and Trump’s big about punching back in whatever stupid way he can), and taking it down once someone points out the white power words. So I’ll agree to disagree with you there. Biden is still running for president, and his campaigns silence on all kinds of matters of the day is self defeating. He has a heavy lift to prove himself mentally able to string sentences together into a point, and hiding from the public eye except for small, select appearances aids that narrative. And reporters praise his genius just laying low, if anybody was wondering how the media would respond to 4-8 years of Biden. What are you disagreeing with? It fits entirely with my criticism of how Trump uses Twitter as a form of ‘owning the libs’ regardless of what villainry it emboldens. Specifically the second point, you can do the former without retweeting guys shouting ‘white power’, be it careless or calculating the inclusion of such rhetoric in the Twitter output is just generally a bad move, both for general decency but increasingly in terms of self-interested political aggrandisement. Even centrist types who’ve previously given Trump the benefit of the doubt re dogwhistling are changing their tune. I haven’t altered my arguments or put them forth more convincingly, he’s just throwing so much of it out that he’s doing it to himself. The question is the usefulness of retweets like that to support arguments that Trump is a racist/supports such and such policies because he is a racist. You can read back ten or twenty pages to see arguments in that forum. You personally observe some centrists changing their mind on Trump and dogwhistling, so it shows you're aware of it. What you're transitioning to, that Trump's careless speech and disregard for social customs about how to talk ends up giving cover to actual racists and white supremacists, is quite another thing. I've said the same about Democrats that called McCain and Romney racists. They don't actually intend to further causes they don't support, but they actually advance them and degrade the discourse such that somebody like Trump is necessary to show the fruits of their tireless labor. The example of Trump, and hopefully the re-election of Trump, may roll back the "educated class" liberal use of racist/sexist and political correctness norms, seeing what the backlash and rejection of such norms will take. Maybe I'm digressing a little bit with that comment. Even take the video. Protesters in The Village are facing counter-protesters and are jeering at the Trump supporters by calling them racist. What to do when people call you racist for supporting President Trump? Well, one reaction is to heighten the meaninglessness of that term "Oh yeah? You're gonna go with that? Ok, White Power, f***ers." Highlight absurdity by being even more absurd. Using more modern language, you may call it rejecting the entire system of shouting racist at stuff you don't like. The presidential retweet should never have happened, and was rightly taken down, but it's no more actual support for white supremacy than defund the police is actual police reform. I can get behind your general decency argument, which is why I couldn't support Trump in the only presidential primary that mattered. It should also hurt Trump as it probably has. It's just the people that go one step further that I have a problem with, and really want to play special pleader with Trump to go from stupid to planned whenever it fits their conclusions. The conclusion is known, and the evidence is picked such to fit the conclusion. And, as if Biden's team reads this thread, Biden took questions on the statues and actually made the distinction between confederate statues and founding fathers and columbus. That's the kind of move he needs to get in the habit of making if he wants to defeat Trump. It would be stronger if he outright condemned the lawless teardowns, but I think people will accept what he said today. Hillary had a higher lead over Trump at this point of the election season than Biden has over Trump. And contrary to last time, Biden doesn't have such a large disgust reaction as Hillary, and Trump has eroded support in suburbs and evangelicals. I really hate that argument. This is coming from the people who "call a spade a spade", "tell it like it is", and who hate all the "snowflakes" who need "save spaces". Yet if you call someone tweeting racist stuff and saying racist stuff a racist, that is suddenly really problematic. I think the group of people who get angry about you calling Trump a racist, and who thus change who they vote for to Trump consists of roughly zero people. It is a sad state of affairs, and i generally dislike the hightened level of partisanship. But Trump really is just that bad. And i cannot understand people voting for him. It is just absurd. I can understand people voting for our German conservative party. I do not agree with them, but i can understand them, and i am pretty sure that i can have a reasonable conversation with them despite political differences. Probably not with our far-right AfD guys, though. But Trump...i just don't get it. I don't understand how you can view him, and honestly come to the conclusion that he is not everything people say about him. He doesn't hide it. He openly says, does and tweets racist stuff. He openly says, does and tweets corrupt stuff. He openly says, does and tweets incompetent stuff. And at this point, i simply do not see that mystical person who would stop voting for Trump if people just stopped being mean to him for voting for Trump, which Danglars claims to be a relevant amount of people. The people who are willing to vote for Trump right now, after everything we have seen, will not change that, no matter how nice you are to them, how careful you are to tiptoe around their sensibilities. This whole "Oh no, now you did it, you called me a racist, i totally would have listened to you, but now i won't and i will vote for Trump" thing is just smokes and mirrors. Anyone saying that would have voted for Trump, no matter what you say to them. We can just hope that there are not enough of them in the few states that matter. I do not think that we should go around and call everyone voting for Trump a racist. A reasonably large group of them probably are, but some might not be. You should absolutely say that Trump is a racist. Because he doesn't really hide that, at all. And Trumpists don't really show a lot of willingness to compromise, or to talk about issues.
As much as this talks about the meta argument, and cites nothing, and treats dismissively and derisively the explanation that “racist” has been purged of all meaning, having been used for all Republicans candidates for the last three presidential elections, I’d say you had better start liking the argument or staying ignorant about right-of-center American politics. History doesn’t begin with Trump. I can only feel so much sympathy for your “I just don’t get it” if your posture remains as described in this post. And I’m doubly glad that I responded to Wombat’s post to hear precisely the reaction I wagered. Thankfully, this is a free country, so anyone here can call whatever national trend as “mythical” or “I just don’t get it” and vote on whatever they believe to be true.
It must be some act of divine providence that the immediate post following leads with “Every Trump voter did a racist thing voting for Trump..” hmm so strange about citizens rebelled against unfair and capricious slurs in ways I don’t approve of. So strange.
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On July 01 2020 04:47 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2020 04:35 IgnE wrote:On July 01 2020 04:17 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 01 2020 04:04 IgnE wrote:On July 01 2020 02:52 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 01 2020 00:22 IgnE wrote:On June 30 2020 12:06 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 30 2020 08:57 Wombat_NI wrote:On June 30 2020 08:19 Velr wrote:
And what Obama said matters how? The 80 are now 40 years ago... You know what was 40 years before the 80? the second world war. Another 40? We are not even at World war One (and far before MLK and these other kinda important things that happened in the US).
I frequent left tube, too often for my sanity, and the main problem people like you have, is that you alienate anyone that isn't 100% on board with "the revolution", which is barely, if at all, defined and just some ghost figure any "trube believer" leftist seems to have in his head. It seems to be more like a sort of possession than an actual structured idea.
It's basically some teenage dream gone big thanks to streamers/youtube videos... It' would be kinda cute, if it wouldn't be so sad and futile.
But well, I most like haven't read the right books or pdfs or random bs on homepage xyz to give a qualified comment. Most of GH’s positions are lifted verbatim from my YouTube channel, alas I have just realised I have had my uploads to all be set to unlisted. Probably explains the difficulty in sourcing them. + Show Spoiler +I’m quite fond of the left tube content I consume, would like to consume some right equivalents that aren’t trash. I know it’s out there somewhere, just haven’t been directed there either by individuals or by YouTube shepherding me there.
There may be an occasional maddening lack of a robust structural plan for hypothesised alternative societies, I don’t particularly see that being the point in much such content.
In a crude sense what’s the point in working within the confines of a hegemonic system and the flaws within without making people aware that said system isn’t a neutral or natural state of affairs?
In general what I see is yes, not often particularly diplomatic but it does seem to be content created to punch through those kind of barriers first, sort the nitty gritty later.
I’m not personally a vegan (yet), although I do intercede in heated discussions on the topic a fair amount. Not necessarily the best analogy, although the best I can pull from my arse at this hour.
Aside from the ‘I love my steaks’ crowd, most pushback I get tends to be couched in practical concerns like converting the world’s food economy radically to accommodate it.
My position is that it’s largely irrelevant, humanity by and large is morally fine with consuming animal flesh, and will indulge in crazy mental gymnastics because it’s so normalised in society. if that general consensus radically shifted, humanity would pretty easily figure a way out to make it workable.
We can do pretty remarkable things if the collective will is there.
Under no circumstances are you to share those videos. They'll be onto me and my legion. Sharing those videos will result in an immediate demotion to tier 3 minion and 5 battles in the thunderdome. + Show Spoiler +I've already said too much In all seriousness though I don't even know any you tubers with my politics. Closest that comes to mind is that Inuuendo studios video that Neb and IgnE referred to but one look at who he follows on twitter told me all I needed to know about why his video on the protests ended like it did. Why did his video on the protests end like it did? He almost exclusively follows white people. Which indicates (along with the analysis in the video) to me that's who he reads and talks with too. Is he offering real solutions or taking blows from truncheons himself? Idk man I see a lot of retweets from black people in his twitter timeline. I scrolled down quite a bit and my cursory counting puts 30-40% of his retweets as retweets from BIPOC people or BIPOC-oriented organizations. I can’t see what he follows because I don’t have a twitter account (at least I don’t think I can). I presume your last question is rhetorical but just out of curiosity have you taken truncheon blows? His timeline is overwhelmingly just him but I'll give him credit for not mostly retweeting the almost exclusively white people he follows. In the literal sense? Yes. In the metaphorical sense? Every day. You? No I’ve never been hit with a truncheon and would rather not be. I prefer the pen to the sword. Let's hear the plan then, or this performance is going to get eviscerated by the reviewers.
Plan concerning what? What reviewers?
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There are very clear consequences to voting for Trump, though. Trump made this pandemic worse. I don't think there is any way to dispute that.
And it was utterly obvious from the beginning that Trump is completely unfit to be president. This is what i mean with "i don't get it". Why would you vote for someone who is like Trump is. Incompetent, corrupt, boorish, arrogant, antiintellectual, racist, and just generally an asshole and a schoolyard bully. None of that is hidden. It is all right in the open. And yet people vote for him. America decided that it could not do better than Trump as president. I think that that is absurd, and sad, and you are reaping the very real consequences of that by having a Trump when you would need a competent president.
I do not say that i do not understand your feeling sad for being called a racist. I absolutely understand that. I would also feel sad if i were called a racist. I am a bit confused on doubling down on voting for a racist again out of spite of being called a racist, and i doubt that the person exists who says that they vote for trump, but doesn't actually want to vote for trump, but then still votes for trump because they have been called racist for wanting to vote for trump.
A really effective strategy to not be called a racist is to stop acting like a racist. If the republican party stopped trying to suppress the black vote wherever it has any chance of doing so, maybe less people would call them racist. If the republican party stopped supporting cops who kill black people, maybe less people would call them racist. If they stopped flying confederate flags, maybe less people would call them racist.
Instead, you are here and claim that if only people would stop calling them racist, they would immediately stop doing all the racist things, would stop voting for Trumps, and would generally do stuff which is good for the country. I find that to be a bit questionable.
I also don't claim to have a complete view of american politics. Throughout the 2016 election, i was 100% convinced that Trump would lose horribly. Surely no population would elect someone like that? I have been proven wrong, and i still fail to see any appeal in Trump, let alone enough for a relevant amount of people to vote for him. I have thus come to the conclusion that american politics is really strange, and pretty far removed from anything a rational person can understand. I hope that you find a way out of that, because it is really bad for your country and the people within it.
You can not honestly claim that having a competent president instead of a trump would not have helped you weather this pandemic a lot better. And that is what you risk whenever you elect someone like that for president. Something relevant might happen during his term, and he will be completely unfit to deal with it. Yes, during times of low-crisis, one can afford incompetent leadership for a while. Competent leadership is still better, but it is not as catastrophic. During a time of strife, having an incompetent leader can ruin a country. Which is why you should never elect someone like Trump, even if people call you mean names.
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On July 01 2020 05:12 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2020 04:47 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 01 2020 04:35 IgnE wrote:On July 01 2020 04:17 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 01 2020 04:04 IgnE wrote:On July 01 2020 02:52 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 01 2020 00:22 IgnE wrote:On June 30 2020 12:06 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 30 2020 08:57 Wombat_NI wrote:On June 30 2020 08:19 Velr wrote:
And what Obama said matters how? The 80 are now 40 years ago... You know what was 40 years before the 80? the second world war. Another 40? We are not even at World war One (and far before MLK and these other kinda important things that happened in the US).
I frequent left tube, too often for my sanity, and the main problem people like you have, is that you alienate anyone that isn't 100% on board with "the revolution", which is barely, if at all, defined and just some ghost figure any "trube believer" leftist seems to have in his head. It seems to be more like a sort of possession than an actual structured idea.
It's basically some teenage dream gone big thanks to streamers/youtube videos... It' would be kinda cute, if it wouldn't be so sad and futile.
But well, I most like haven't read the right books or pdfs or random bs on homepage xyz to give a qualified comment. Most of GH’s positions are lifted verbatim from my YouTube channel, alas I have just realised I have had my uploads to all be set to unlisted. Probably explains the difficulty in sourcing them. + Show Spoiler +I’m quite fond of the left tube content I consume, would like to consume some right equivalents that aren’t trash. I know it’s out there somewhere, just haven’t been directed there either by individuals or by YouTube shepherding me there.
There may be an occasional maddening lack of a robust structural plan for hypothesised alternative societies, I don’t particularly see that being the point in much such content.
In a crude sense what’s the point in working within the confines of a hegemonic system and the flaws within without making people aware that said system isn’t a neutral or natural state of affairs?
In general what I see is yes, not often particularly diplomatic but it does seem to be content created to punch through those kind of barriers first, sort the nitty gritty later.
I’m not personally a vegan (yet), although I do intercede in heated discussions on the topic a fair amount. Not necessarily the best analogy, although the best I can pull from my arse at this hour.
Aside from the ‘I love my steaks’ crowd, most pushback I get tends to be couched in practical concerns like converting the world’s food economy radically to accommodate it.
My position is that it’s largely irrelevant, humanity by and large is morally fine with consuming animal flesh, and will indulge in crazy mental gymnastics because it’s so normalised in society. if that general consensus radically shifted, humanity would pretty easily figure a way out to make it workable.
We can do pretty remarkable things if the collective will is there.
Under no circumstances are you to share those videos. They'll be onto me and my legion. Sharing those videos will result in an immediate demotion to tier 3 minion and 5 battles in the thunderdome. + Show Spoiler +I've already said too much In all seriousness though I don't even know any you tubers with my politics. Closest that comes to mind is that Inuuendo studios video that Neb and IgnE referred to but one look at who he follows on twitter told me all I needed to know about why his video on the protests ended like it did. Why did his video on the protests end like it did? He almost exclusively follows white people. Which indicates (along with the analysis in the video) to me that's who he reads and talks with too. Is he offering real solutions or taking blows from truncheons himself? Idk man I see a lot of retweets from black people in his twitter timeline. I scrolled down quite a bit and my cursory counting puts 30-40% of his retweets as retweets from BIPOC people or BIPOC-oriented organizations. I can’t see what he follows because I don’t have a twitter account (at least I don’t think I can). I presume your last question is rhetorical but just out of curiosity have you taken truncheon blows? His timeline is overwhelmingly just him but I'll give him credit for not mostly retweeting the almost exclusively white people he follows. In the literal sense? Yes. In the metaphorical sense? Every day. You? No I’ve never been hit with a truncheon and would rather not be. I prefer the pen to the sword. Let's hear the plan then, or this performance is going to get eviscerated by the reviewers. Plan concerning what? What reviewers?
Did you watch the end of the video?
If they're not offering real solutions and they're not taking the blows, then they aren't after justice. They're after a performance, and I don't think that qualifies them to speak on the subject + Show Spoiler + For reference, the video we're discussing:
So if you're not penning solutions, I'm saying the performance is less than captivating. Particularly disappointing because you're certainly among the most capable among us. I mentioned the heavy lifting, but it usually seems you can't even be bothered to trim the hedges.
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EPT
