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Northern Ireland24682 Posts
On June 30 2020 08:19 Velr wrote: And what Obama said matters how? The 80 are now 40 years ago... You know what was 40 years before the 80? the second world war. Another 40? We are not even at World war One (and far before MLK and these other kinda important things that happened in the US).
I frequent left tube, too often for my sanity, and the main problem people like you have, is that you alienate anyone that isn't 100% on board with "the revolution", which is barely, if at all, defined and just some ghost figure any "trube believer" leftist seems to have in his head. It seems to be more like a sort of possession than an actual structured idea. It's basically some teenage dream gone big thanks to streamers/youtube videos... It' would be kinda cute, if it wouldn't be so sad and futile.
But well, I most like haven't read the right books or pdfs or random bs on homepage xyz to give a qualified comment. Most of GH’s positions are lifted verbatim from my YouTube channel, alas I have just realised I have had my uploads to all be set to unlisted. Probably explains the difficulty in sourcing them.
I’m quite fond of the left tube content I consume, would like to consume some right equivalents that aren’t trash. I know it’s out there somewhere, just haven’t been directed there either by individuals or by YouTube shepherding me there.
There may be an occasional maddening lack of a robust structural plan for hypothesised alternative societies, I don’t particularly see that being the point in much such content.
In a crude sense what’s the point in working within the confines of a hegemonic system and the flaws within without making people aware that said system isn’t a neutral or natural state of affairs?
In general what I see is yes, not often particularly diplomatic but it does seem to be content created to punch through those kind of barriers first, sort the nitty gritty later.
I’m not personally a vegan (yet), although I do intercede in heated discussions on the topic a fair amount. Not necessarily the best analogy, although the best I can pull from my arse at this hour.
Aside from the ‘I love my steaks’ crowd, most pushback I get tends to be couched in practical concerns like converting the world’s food economy radically to accommodate it.
My position is that it’s largely irrelevant, humanity by and large is morally fine with consuming animal flesh, and will indulge in crazy mental gymnastics because it’s so normalised in society. if that general consensus radically shifted, humanity would pretty easily figure a way out to make it workable.
We can do pretty remarkable things if the collective will is there.
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On June 30 2020 07:22 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2020 07:02 Simberto wrote:On June 30 2020 06:37 Danglars wrote:On June 30 2020 04:27 Introvert wrote:On June 30 2020 04:01 ShoCkeyy wrote:On June 30 2020 03:43 Nevuk wrote:On June 30 2020 02:55 Slydie wrote:On June 30 2020 01:33 Mohdoo wrote: While conservatives argue a face mask directive during a pandemic is oppressive, they mourn a ruling that the state can't regulate a woman's reproductive rights This is weird, in my world, a LIBERAL would dislike both facemasks and restrictive abortion rights. Afaik, US conservatives are actually extremely liberal in many ways (guns, civil liberties), but restrictive in others (abortion, drugs.) Is it even a coherent ideology? My own points of view as a Scandinavian raised cynic and die-hard social liberal are probably not completely coherent either, but I don't understand how the GOP is knit together of seemingly opposing values. Liberal and Conservative have different meanings in the US than the rest of the world. When people reference the global meanings of the word in a conversation where they could get mixed up, they say "little l liberal" or "little c conservative" (it's not done often). Libertarians tend to be the traditional meaning of liberal here. However, american libertarians are... weird. Some of them don't think abortion rights are libertarian, some do (something along the lines of the freedom of the child). Some of them also are just republicans, as far as I can tell. I think it's because some people started calling themselves libertarians after mainstream GOP does really stupid things (it was common in 09-10 due to Bush's unpopularity). American Liberal refers to Keynesian economics and liberal social policies. Conservative refers to liberal economics and conservative social policies. Leftist refers to anyone who has issues with capitalism fundamentally. There are still some Conservative Democrats, but almost no Liberal Republicans exist anymore. There's been a rapid sorting starting around Obama's election where the parties started to sort ideologically. It can be easily said that most US citizens don't know what any of those words mean. I always find it funny to see republicans bitch about liberalism. We know what it means in the American context, that's quite good enough for american politics, obviously. The idea that there are more conservative Democrats in Congress than liberal Republicans is, of course, absolutely bonkers, but it's something the left almost wishes were true, given how often it's repeated. However, it is true that by self-identification, there are plenty of both still left among the general populace. It's especially funny to read on the say Roberts does his more and more frequent split-the-baby approach while destroying his institution. You'd probably have to go back to 2005 to find the last time a lone Democrat appointee sided with the conservatives on a truly important issue, but somehow the 4 lefties are never called out for being partisan hacks or ideologues. There's pretty much never ant question how they'll vote on an issue the left really cares about. The last pro-life Democrats, who could justifiably be seen as conservative on some social issues, got walloped in the Obama years of transformation within the Democratic party. There were actually Democrats that stood up against, say, PPACA funding of Abortion, and demanded to be included in party policy and legislation. That's over now. On the flip side, many Republicans support big government (sad trend imo) solutions, ends to free trade (also a sad trend), and increased welfare spending and health insurance spending in general. I see only a very biased reading that could end with conservative Democrats but no liberal Republicans. Log cabin republicans have been around for years, fiscal conservatives that are very socially liberal have been molding agendas for literally decades (see: Trump had half his term with a Republican house & senate, and all he got was a tax cut ... social policy all died). I don't really see any benefit in Nevuk's formulation, other than to grind a political axe about how the other side is less diverse, or something. Your perception of core issues is very strange to me. Why would being anti-abortion be the only defining factor of a conservative? Why would being for "big government, end of free trade, increased welfare spending and health insurance spending in general" be core liberal themes? That seems like putting the cart before the horse, and defining what republicans think democrats stand for as "liberal", and one single issue that republicans care about as "conservative". I find it especially weird that the positions seem to be mostly disjunkt from each other, and thus easily allow for a liberal conservative. And there are a bunch of other ways to frame stuff. One could, for example, describe a democrat who opposes a more universal healthcare system as a "conservative democrat", since opposing a universal healthcare system seems to be a core republican position. Or one could call a republican who is in favor of ending the war on drugs a "liberal republican". It seems to me as if you randomly grabbed a very small subset as positions as the only positions who matter, and didn't even represent those correctly. There are a lot of different issues out there, and a lot of positions on those issues are compatible with each other. I disagree. Expansive roles for the federal government to fill are historically associated with liberals or progressives. Conservative social policy embodies several positions, but one of the more obvious ones is abortion ... such as you could say Obama chose a more conservative social policy platform when he ran for president in stating restrictions he favored, and Sanders/Clinton chose a more liberal one in refusing to back any solid restrictions in their campaigns. If it needs to be said, other issues I could’ve picked have changed over time. Also, I’m picking examples to prove my point (Nevuk’s characterization of the parties is very foolish), because examples to the contrary are important for him to explain how they fit his description, or for him to renounce it upon viewing the evidence again. And if you had picked a Trump tweet for explaining how he’s a bad president, I do not presume that’s the only reason you could think of, or you think he hasn’t done any good. And since you aren’t Nevuk, I won’t ask you how he uses it, nor will I force you to choose the same terms. Eh, it was very broad strokes characterization for someone who was confused about the use of the term liberal in American politics. Wasn't mean to be 100% accurate or capture all the nuances.
My personal views could be colored a bit because my mother is a conservative democrat of the type I mentioned - socially conservative but economically liberal/left leaning. So I'm very familiar with conservative democrats, but have basically never met a liberal republican.
However, regardless, polling has shown that both liberal republicans and conservative democrats are decreasing throughout the years - but that liberal republicans are disappearing somewhat faster. That's all I really meant - the party ID % of liberal republicans is lower than the party ID % of conservative dems.
This doesn't actually mean much on the national level, tbh. Eastern KY and WV for instance are Democratic strongholds that votes GOP on the national level. The reason that many are still Democrats is tradition rather than out of any loyalty to the democratic party.
We're also talking about like, 8% vs 13% numbers. It's not really a big deal.
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On June 30 2020 08:57 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2020 08:19 Velr wrote: And what Obama said matters how? The 80 are now 40 years ago... You know what was 40 years before the 80? the second world war. Another 40? We are not even at World war One (and far before MLK and these other kinda important things that happened in the US).
I frequent left tube, too often for my sanity, and the main problem people like you have, is that you alienate anyone that isn't 100% on board with "the revolution", which is barely, if at all, defined and just some ghost figure any "trube believer" leftist seems to have in his head. It seems to be more like a sort of possession than an actual structured idea. It's basically some teenage dream gone big thanks to streamers/youtube videos... It' would be kinda cute, if it wouldn't be so sad and futile.
But well, I most like haven't read the right books or pdfs or random bs on homepage xyz to give a qualified comment. Most of GH’s positions are lifted verbatim from my YouTube channel, alas I have just realised I have had my uploads to all be set to unlisted. Probably explains the difficulty in sourcing them. + Show Spoiler +I’m quite fond of the left tube content I consume, would like to consume some right equivalents that aren’t trash. I know it’s out there somewhere, just haven’t been directed there either by individuals or by YouTube shepherding me there.
There may be an occasional maddening lack of a robust structural plan for hypothesised alternative societies, I don’t particularly see that being the point in much such content.
In a crude sense what’s the point in working within the confines of a hegemonic system and the flaws within without making people aware that said system isn’t a neutral or natural state of affairs?
In general what I see is yes, not often particularly diplomatic but it does seem to be content created to punch through those kind of barriers first, sort the nitty gritty later.
I’m not personally a vegan (yet), although I do intercede in heated discussions on the topic a fair amount. Not necessarily the best analogy, although the best I can pull from my arse at this hour.
Aside from the ‘I love my steaks’ crowd, most pushback I get tends to be couched in practical concerns like converting the world’s food economy radically to accommodate it.
My position is that it’s largely irrelevant, humanity by and large is morally fine with consuming animal flesh, and will indulge in crazy mental gymnastics because it’s so normalised in society. if that general consensus radically shifted, humanity would pretty easily figure a way out to make it workable.
We can do pretty remarkable things if the collective will is there.
Under no circumstances are you to share those videos. They'll be onto me and my legion. Sharing those videos will result in an immediate demotion to tier 3 minion and 5 battles in the thunderdome.
+ Show Spoiler +I've already said too much
In all seriousness though I don't even know any you tubers with my politics. Closest that comes to mind is that Inuuendo studios video that Neb and IgnE referred to but one look at who he follows on twitter told me all I needed to know about why his video on the protests ended like it did.
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On June 30 2020 04:57 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2020 04:52 Introvert wrote:On June 30 2020 04:39 farvacola wrote: TIL that closing the federal courts to certain kinds of immigration claims is not a truly important issue and that therefore Justices Ginsburg and Breyer’s siding with the conservatives in that case can be ignored in service of an unbalanced talking point that is popular in some media circles.
And that’s only one case, there are more where particularly Justices Ginsburg, Breyer, and Kagan have sided with the conservatives, only leftist court watchers don’t run to their equivalent to the FedSoc press to decry the oh so unfair treatment of judicial conservatives. You know those aren't on the level of even the other rulings in the past few weeks where other Gorsuch and Roberts have sided with the Democrat appointees. We know they vote together more on close rulings anyways, I can get thr numbers later if you really want them. Occasionally Kagan and Breyer come over if Roberts does his usual water-it-down thing, even many "victories" aren't wins and they leave open huge holes for the future. And we can look at the way things have gone. Despite decades of majority GOP appointees, the left's social agenda continues to slowly become law through the courts. Not without hiccups, and certainly their economic agenda has been less successful... but we all have eyes. edit Sotomayor is the only leftward Justice who doesn’t seem keen on the horse trading that occurs all the time, which is probably part of why she’s the best one currently on the court in the first place
And of course I think she's easily the worst, and Kagan is the best lefty. I do however like Thomas, and part of that is similar to why you like Sotomayor, so there you go. Shouldn't an effective supreme court rule in a way that is consistent, without differences due to "importance"?
On June 30 2020 05:05 Gorsameth wrote: Is it wrong to think 'the left' has had better success with the courts because their legislation has been better supported by actual arguments instead of trying to figure out how to get restrictions to certain people's rights and freedoms past the constitution?
Obviously my ideal would be ruling based solely on the law, but we know that's not realistic, and moreover we know that often the CJ shifts as he feels is necessary (not just Roberts, most of them). As per my complaint about voting in lockstep... well that's where i started and again, arguments about what counts aside, the fear-mongering overwhat a "right-wing" court would do has so far have been exaggeration. Not to say there haven't been flat-wins for the right (Shelby, Janus, CU, etc), but this fact ought to be a sign to slow down and reflect.
I think the follwoing sums up the issue with Roberts, very well said as usual by McLaughlin. I apologize for a lack of formatting for the piece, but I think context makes it easy enough to understand what is what.
+ Show Spoiler +Decisions on abortion and separation of powers demonstrate how good ideas about the law become empty words on a page.
There is a saying — perhaps as old as Aristotle — that courage is the first virtue, because it makes all the others possible. We usually associate courage (or its absence) with leadership by elected officials: There are times when it is hard to stand up for your principles, to stand against your own party, or both. From judges, we are told, the important thing is to follow, not to lead: to have the ascetic self-discipline to apply the Constitution and laws as written, and not to put your own policy preferences above the letter of the law. The right ideas and the right priorities matter more than character. A good brain beats a good heart.
The conservative legal establishment has long been particularly enamored of this ideal: the umpire calmly calling balls and strikes. It is a very important virtue. But it is not the first virtue. An umpire who can be cowed by the crowd will not call the same strike zone for both teams. Without courage, good ideas about the law are just empty words on a page. Without courage, even the clearest-written rights are empty promises, the plainest limitations on power are easily overwhelmed, and the entire project of rule by written law becomes just another hollow formality.
Two of today’s Supreme Court decisions, on abortion and separation of powers, are further evidence of this. Chief Justice John Roberts has yet again shown the absence of courage that has so often undermined his Court. Roberts’s repeated demonstrations of lack of courage are rapidly becoming a threat to the Court itself, and to the conservative legal project.
June Medical: Precedents That Rewrite Themselves
First up, we have June Medical Services L.L.C. v. Russo, which by a 5–4 vote struck down a Louisiana abortion-clinic regulation challenged by the clinics. Justices Clarence Thomas, Samuel Alito, Brett Kavanaugh, and Neil Gorsuch would have upheld the Louisiana law, but Chief Justice Roberts sided with the Court’s four liberals, claiming that his hands were tied by precedent.
In the 2016 case Whole Woman’s Health v. Hellerstedt, the Court ruled 5–3 against a Texas abortion law that required abortion providers to have admitting privileges at a hospital within 30 miles. States routinely impose such requirements on the practice of medicine, especially invasive or surgical procedures. As Justice Gorsuch observed, the Louisiana law “tracks longstanding state laws governing physicians who perform relatively low-risk procedures like colonoscopies, Lasik eye surgeries, and steroid injections at ambulatory surgical centers.” The Court in both Whole Woman’s Health and June Medical ruled that “unnecessary health regulations that have the purpose or effect of presenting a substantial obstacle to a woman seeking an abortion impose an undue burden on the right” to an abortion. Yet what the Court defines as an “unnecessary” requirement would be uncontroversially legal for any other medical procedure under the sun, and the “constitutional right” itself is, of course, nowhere even vaguely mentioned in the actual Constitution.
Moreover, in a normal court case, a party who loses a lawsuit can’t just file a do-over. But that is what the Court’s four liberals — then joined by Justice Kennedy — allowed in Whole Woman’s Health, not binding the clinics to a decision against them on the same issue in a prior case. Justice Alito’s dissent at the time, joined by Chief Justice Roberts, called out the Court’s Whole Woman’s Health decision for “simply disregard[ing] basic rules that apply in all other cases.”
Four years later, Roberts gave the liberals the deference they would not apply themselves, writing, “I joined the dissent in Whole Woman’s Health and continue to believe that the case was wrongly decided. The question today however is not whether Whole Woman’s Health was right or wrong, but whether to adhere to it. . . . The legal doctrine of stare decisis requires us, absent special circumstances, to treat like cases alike.” Had like cases been treated alike by the Court’s liberals, the Whole Woman’s Health majority opinion would never have been written. What’s mine is mine, what’s yours is negotiable.
There are, as Roberts notes, a variety of arguments for constitutional stare decisis, but it is not an ironclad rule. As Justice Kavanaugh recently emphasized in the unanimous-jury case (Ramos v. Louisiana), the central question should always be whether the earlier decision was wrong. One of the arguments often raised in favor of stare decisis is that courts should not unsettle expectations created by longstanding decisions. Here, Whole Woman’s Health was so recently decided that the June Medical case had already been tried when the decision came down.
Worse, stare decisis is supposed to promote stability in the law by adhering to consistent and predictable rules, yet the opinions striking down the Louisiana law did no such thing. Roberts refused to join Justice Breyer’s opinion, but by joining its outcome he prevented the Court’s conservatives from doing anything to keep the Court from constantly rewriting its own rules. Abortion law is, for now, governed by the 1992 Planned Parenthood v. Casey decision, which itself upheld Roe v. Wade on stare decisis grounds while completely rewriting its theoretical basis and its practical guidance for lower courts. As Roberts noted today, Casey asked whether an abortion law imposed an undue burden, but the Court in Whole Woman’s Health — and the plurality today — changed that rule to make it a balancing test that reviewed the pros and cons of the law. Roberts reiterated today that Whole Woman’s Health therefore departs from Casey, and asks courts to apply a test they are not competent to administer:
In this context, courts applying a balancing test would be asked in essence to weigh the State’s interests in “protecting the potentiality of human life” and the health of the woman, on the one hand, against the woman’s liberty interest in defining her “own concept of existence, of meaning, of the universe, and of the mystery of human life” on the other [quoting Justice Kennedy in Casey]. There is no plausible sense in which anyone, let alone this Court, could objectively assign weight to such imponderable values and no meaningful way to compare them if there were. Attempting to do so would be like “judging whether a particular line is longer than a particular rock is heavy” [quoting Justice Antonin Scalia]. Pretending that we could pull that off would require us to act as legislators, not judges. . . . Nothing about Casey suggested that a weighing of costs and benefits of an abortion regulation was a job for the courts. On the contrary, we have explained that the traditional rule that state and federal legislatures have wide discretion to pass legislation in areas where there is medical and scientific uncertainty is consistent with Casey. (Quotations and citations omitted).
That last line is especially poignant, as Roberts cited Gonzales v. Carhart, a 2007 decision upholding a federal partial-birth abortion ban and declining to follow a 2000 decision striking down Nebraska’s ban. Roberts joined that opinion. Today, Roberts clung to the formal claim that “we should respect the statement in Whole Woman’s Health that it was applying the undue burden standard of Casey” even after he just explained why that was not what the liberals were doing.
Justice Gorsuch called out the four liberals’ analysis for being “the judicial version of a hunter’s stew: Throw in anything that looks interesting, stir, and season to taste,” and called out Roberts himself for noticing this but doing nothing about it. The Court’s actual weighing of the costs and benefits of the Louisiana law, as Gorsuch observed, “shar[ed] virtually nothing about the facts that led the legislature to [pass it.] The law might as well have fallen from the sky. . . . Nothing in [Whole Woman’s Health] suggested that its conclusions about the costs and benefits of the Texas statute were universal principles of law, medicine, or economics true in all places and at all times.” But the Court simply blew by the independent factfinding of the Louisiana state legislature. And, as the dissenters further noted, it also required a good deal of other mental gymnastics with the rules of appellate review and standing to sue. As Gorsuch concluded, the chief justice’s impulse may be to proceed modestly, but he just ends up empowering those who are not so constrained:
To arrive at today’s result, rules must be brushed aside and shortcuts taken. While [Roberts’s] concurrence parts ways with the plurality at the last turn, the road both travel leads us to a strangely open space, unconstrained by many of the neutral principles that normally govern the judicial process. The temptation to proceed this direction, closer with each step toward an unobstructed exercise of will, may be always with us. . . . Today, in a highly politicized and contentious arena, we prove unwilling, or perhaps unable, to resist that temptation.
Even with the evidence staring him in the face that the Court is rewriting its own standards on the fly, the chief called a ball a strike.
Selia Law: Saving Congress from Itself
In the second case, Selia Law LLC v. Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, the chief justice wrote the Court’s opinion declaring that Congress in the 2010 Dodd-Frank Act had violated the separation of powers by placing the CFPB’s head beyond the reach of presidents to remove at will. This is an important milestone in a longstanding fight by legal conservatives, most prominently Justice Scalia, to restore presidential control and accountability over the executive branch and constrain the growth of a “deep state” that answers to no voter. It is also an epic embarrassment for Elizabeth Warren, who designed the CFPB, and President Obama, who signed Dodd-Frank and has yet again been found by the Court to have done violence to the structure of our Constitution.
As Justice Scalia was fond of observing, separation of powers is, itself, the first of all constitutional rules: So long as we have a government of limited and divided powers, it is possible to enforce particular guarantees of individual rights, which appear in the constitutions of many nations that fail to enforce them.
But Roberts pulled up short of actually concluding that an agency created in violation of the Constitution lacked the power to compel the citizenry. That is what Justices Thomas and Gorsuch would have done here. Normally, if Congress passes an unconstitutional statute, it should be struck down as a whole unless Congress has written instructions on how to sever parts that are unlawful. Here, Congress did just that — for other specific parts of the 1,100-page Dodd-Frank Act, but not one particular to the CFPB. Relying on Dodd-Frank’s general severability clause, Roberts (joined this time by Alito and Kavanaugh) took the narrowest possible “scalpel rather than a bulldozer” to make the CFPB director removable, disregarding the question of whether Congress would really have granted such broad powers to the agency if it had been placed under direct political control.
Normally, if a government enforcement proceeding is started by people acting without authority, the whole proceeding should be thrown out and left to a properly constituted authority. Roberts, however, instead decided that the remedy for the target of CFPB action was . . . maybe nothing, because the CFPB kept the case against Selia Law going under an acting director who was removable at will. In other words, much as in the recent DACA decision, a power illegally granted remains in force because the chief justice went out of his way to save it.
The Voters Are Not Fools
It is a mistake to compare Roberts to past disappointing Republican appointees to the Court. Unlike William Brennan or John Paul Stevens, Roberts was not appointed as an obvious sop to the opposing party. Unlike David Souter, he is not a liberal who snuck on the Court without adequate vetting. Unlike Earl Warren, Warren Burger, or Sandra Day O’Connor, he is a serious legal technician, not a politician. Unlike Harry Blackmun, he is not a simpleton seduced by stronger personalities within the Court. The chief is the opposite of Anthony Kennedy, whose sin was the hubris to maximize the power of the federal courts and his own votes in nearly every case. Roberts remains what he was before his appointment, a conventional conservative legal theorist who believes in many of the doctrines and judicial philosophies one would hear at any Federalist Society gathering.
But courage is lacking. Over and over again, Roberts has failed to follow through on the rule of law. His defenders point to his big-picture vision of judicial modesty and incrementalism: that conservatives should avoid big, wrenching moves, and build small victories in doctrine today that will accumulate to larger ones tomorrow. But in law, as in politics, tomorrow never comes without courage today. Worse, Roberts has on occasion written or joined opinions in big cases that forced large changes (as in the Bostock decision on Title VII) or did violence to doctrine (as in the King v. Burwell decision on Obamacare exchanges) in order to reach results that momentarily appeased the Left. It is all too apparent that Roberts can be cowed by the Democrats’ frequent and noisy threats to pack the courts or otherwise poison their credibility and legitimacy with the public. By caving to such threats, he only invites more of them.
Worse, a movement is beginning to grow among social conservatives to give up on the entire project of stocking the courts with Federalist Society–style originalists and textualists, on the theory that they will simply fold in a tight spot. Roberts is Exhibit A. Senator Josh Hawley issued a shot across the bow a few days ago on this theme regarding Bostock. These voices on the right are arguing openly for a more results-driven jurisprudence — a project that would do violence to the things Roberts cherishes, and would also inevitably be a fight the Right could only lose. Failures of judicial courage can also dispirit conservative voters, as happened in 1992 after Casey. Why labor in the vineyards of politics to appoint judges who know the right thing to do but lack the strength of character to do it?
Many of the Supreme Court’s worst moments have come when its members have chosen a path they wanted to follow, the law be damned. But others have been failures of courage. It was Lincoln and Grant appointees who defanged the guarantees of legal equality passed during Reconstruction. It was Republican appointee Owen Roberts’s “switch in time” that allowed Franklin Roosevelt to bully the Court into abandoning over a century of limited-government precedents and write a constitutional blank check to the New Deal. It was fear of limiting Roosevelt’s popular wartime leadership that led his own appointees to rubber-stamp the internment of Japanese Americans.
Justice Thomas, who dissented from both of today’s failures of courage, has talked about how growing up in a country that refused to enforce the rights it granted on paper formed his view of the judicial role. There is a case to be made, in fact, that Thomas, and not Roberts, should have been made the chief justice in 2006. In any event, the chief could learn a lesson about backbones from the Court’s senior justice. https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/06/chief-justice-john-robertss-lack-of-courage-is-damaging-the-supreme-court/
And as is pointed out in this piece, we should probably cool our jets on the "well maybe he just thought it was the right decision!" Roberts says he thinks the case should go the other way, but somehow he feels bound by precedent. Not exactly a ringing endorsement, even in its most favorable reading.
** edited some wording to clarify and narrow
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Northern Ireland24682 Posts
On June 30 2020 12:06 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2020 08:57 Wombat_NI wrote:On June 30 2020 08:19 Velr wrote: And what Obama said matters how? The 80 are now 40 years ago... You know what was 40 years before the 80? the second world war. Another 40? We are not even at World war One (and far before MLK and these other kinda important things that happened in the US).
I frequent left tube, too often for my sanity, and the main problem people like you have, is that you alienate anyone that isn't 100% on board with "the revolution", which is barely, if at all, defined and just some ghost figure any "trube believer" leftist seems to have in his head. It seems to be more like a sort of possession than an actual structured idea. It's basically some teenage dream gone big thanks to streamers/youtube videos... It' would be kinda cute, if it wouldn't be so sad and futile.
But well, I most like haven't read the right books or pdfs or random bs on homepage xyz to give a qualified comment. Most of GH’s positions are lifted verbatim from my YouTube channel, alas I have just realised I have had my uploads to all be set to unlisted. Probably explains the difficulty in sourcing them. + Show Spoiler +I’m quite fond of the left tube content I consume, would like to consume some right equivalents that aren’t trash. I know it’s out there somewhere, just haven’t been directed there either by individuals or by YouTube shepherding me there.
There may be an occasional maddening lack of a robust structural plan for hypothesised alternative societies, I don’t particularly see that being the point in much such content.
In a crude sense what’s the point in working within the confines of a hegemonic system and the flaws within without making people aware that said system isn’t a neutral or natural state of affairs?
In general what I see is yes, not often particularly diplomatic but it does seem to be content created to punch through those kind of barriers first, sort the nitty gritty later.
I’m not personally a vegan (yet), although I do intercede in heated discussions on the topic a fair amount. Not necessarily the best analogy, although the best I can pull from my arse at this hour.
Aside from the ‘I love my steaks’ crowd, most pushback I get tends to be couched in practical concerns like converting the world’s food economy radically to accommodate it.
My position is that it’s largely irrelevant, humanity by and large is morally fine with consuming animal flesh, and will indulge in crazy mental gymnastics because it’s so normalised in society. if that general consensus radically shifted, humanity would pretty easily figure a way out to make it workable.
We can do pretty remarkable things if the collective will is there.
Under no circumstances are you to share those videos. They'll be onto me and my legion. Sharing those videos will result in an immediate demotion to tier 3 minion and 5 battles in the thunderdome. + Show Spoiler +I've already said too much In all seriousness though I don't even know any you tubers with my politics. Closest that comes to mind is that Inuuendo studios video that Neb and IgnE referred to but one look at who he follows on twitter told me all I needed to know about why his video on the protests ended like it did. Ok ok comrade my lips/links are sealed.
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Northern Ireland24682 Posts
It’s a strange world, this might help Trump, definitely augments the ‘elites are out to silence you’ narrative.
I also worry that social media is going from a standing stop to 100 miles an hour and hamfistedly policing their platforms in an ill thought out manner.
They should have been doing these gradually and evolving over years, did not and now are seemingly shitting the bed trying to do it all at once now there’s corporate pressure.
Can see a lot of legitimate content or genuine joking hyperbole getting swallowed up too.
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On June 30 2020 23:38 Wombat_NI wrote:It’s a strange world, this might help Trump, definitely augments the ‘elites are out to silence you’ narrative. I also worry that social media is going from a standing stop to 100 miles an hour and hamfistedly policing their platforms in an ill thought out manner. They should have been doing these gradually and evolving over years, did not and now are seemingly shitting the bed trying to do it all at once now there’s corporate pressure. Can see a lot of legitimate content or genuine joking hyperbole getting swallowed up too.
It is possible that there will be a point where it makes sense for republicans to abandon trump to keep the senate. I don't think they are there yet and I don't think that even guarantees them the senate. But it is important to keep in mind that while Trump is teflon, teflon can still shatter. His covid response is notably terrible and becoming more apparently terrible as time goes on. That is hurting him, but also conservatives are absolutely obsessed with ancient-levels of admiration for military servicemen. They hold them on a totally insane level. If it comes out that Trump definitely knew about Russia putting bounties on military people, and still sucked off Russia and pushed for G8 inclusion, that would be really tough for a lot of senators to swallow.
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On June 30 2020 12:06 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2020 08:57 Wombat_NI wrote:On June 30 2020 08:19 Velr wrote: And what Obama said matters how? The 80 are now 40 years ago... You know what was 40 years before the 80? the second world war. Another 40? We are not even at World war One (and far before MLK and these other kinda important things that happened in the US).
I frequent left tube, too often for my sanity, and the main problem people like you have, is that you alienate anyone that isn't 100% on board with "the revolution", which is barely, if at all, defined and just some ghost figure any "trube believer" leftist seems to have in his head. It seems to be more like a sort of possession than an actual structured idea. It's basically some teenage dream gone big thanks to streamers/youtube videos... It' would be kinda cute, if it wouldn't be so sad and futile.
But well, I most like haven't read the right books or pdfs or random bs on homepage xyz to give a qualified comment. Most of GH’s positions are lifted verbatim from my YouTube channel, alas I have just realised I have had my uploads to all be set to unlisted. Probably explains the difficulty in sourcing them. + Show Spoiler +I’m quite fond of the left tube content I consume, would like to consume some right equivalents that aren’t trash. I know it’s out there somewhere, just haven’t been directed there either by individuals or by YouTube shepherding me there.
There may be an occasional maddening lack of a robust structural plan for hypothesised alternative societies, I don’t particularly see that being the point in much such content.
In a crude sense what’s the point in working within the confines of a hegemonic system and the flaws within without making people aware that said system isn’t a neutral or natural state of affairs?
In general what I see is yes, not often particularly diplomatic but it does seem to be content created to punch through those kind of barriers first, sort the nitty gritty later.
I’m not personally a vegan (yet), although I do intercede in heated discussions on the topic a fair amount. Not necessarily the best analogy, although the best I can pull from my arse at this hour.
Aside from the ‘I love my steaks’ crowd, most pushback I get tends to be couched in practical concerns like converting the world’s food economy radically to accommodate it.
My position is that it’s largely irrelevant, humanity by and large is morally fine with consuming animal flesh, and will indulge in crazy mental gymnastics because it’s so normalised in society. if that general consensus radically shifted, humanity would pretty easily figure a way out to make it workable.
We can do pretty remarkable things if the collective will is there.
Under no circumstances are you to share those videos. They'll be onto me and my legion. Sharing those videos will result in an immediate demotion to tier 3 minion and 5 battles in the thunderdome. + Show Spoiler +I've already said too much In all seriousness though I don't even know any you tubers with my politics. Closest that comes to mind is that Inuuendo studios video that Neb and IgnE referred to but one look at who he follows on twitter told me all I needed to know about why his video on the protests ended like it did.
Why did his video on the protests end like it did?
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On June 30 2020 23:38 Wombat_NI wrote:It’s a strange world, this might help Trump, definitely augments the ‘elites are out to silence you’ narrative. I also worry that social media is going from a standing stop to 100 miles an hour and hamfistedly policing their platforms in an ill thought out manner. They should have been doing these gradually and evolving over years, did not and now are seemingly shitting the bed trying to do it all at once now there’s corporate pressure. Can see a lot of legitimate content or genuine joking hyperbole getting swallowed up too. Yeah, this can totally help Trump. The elites are out to silence you. I will be your voice. Vote me.
On the flip side, Biden, media darling, hasn't been asked a single question about the statues that have been defaced or destroyed. Nor has he even released a statement. He wanders out of his bunker for a little 15 minute spot on a topic, then back to the basement.
Reddit took down ChapoTrapHouse and many other subreddits, like social justice critical subreddits, so they're at least putting on a veneer of neutral application of their rules. That's to their credit. The major groups will find other platforms.
And a little on the flip side of news: Trump took down the tweet where someone says white power in response to taunts. Good on him, and he probably just liked the visual of Trump supporters firing back at anti-Trump protesters. I never fully understand the whole he's-stupid about face to he-read-understood-did-it-intentionally, but I'm not going to puzzle for hours trying to understand. Meanwhile, the Democrats took down a tweet critical of ... Mount Rushmore of all things. White supremacy glory, and Mount Rushmore racism was not a move I'd expect from whoever's running their social media:
The trial against Michael Flynn was imperiled after news came out that the investigation into him and others had no reason to even justify an interview, and FBI notes supporting charges of entrapment and prosecutorial misconduct. In a rare turn, the judge refused to drop the case when the Justice Department motioned to dismiss over that misconduct. Last week, Flynn received his mandamus from the DC Circuit Court of Appeals to enjoin Judge Sullivan's usurpation of executive authority. It was quite a win for him, as these sort of petitions are rarely granted. This may not be the final word on the Flynn case, and the full court may reverse: NYT
After a couple disappointing rulings from the Supreme Court, they did rule today to preserve religious liberty and school choice in Montana. The Montana Supreme Court had ruled the opposite. Gorsuch gave a nice concurring opinion:Effectively, the court told the state legislature and parents of Montana like Ms. Espinoza: You can have school choice, but if anyone dares to choose to send a child to an accredited religious school, the program will be shuttered. That condition on a public benefit discriminates against the free exercise of religion. Calling it discrimination on the basis of religious status or religious activity makes no difference: It is unconstitutional all the same.
Sadly, it was a narrow 5-4 decision, showing religious citizens cannot rest easy about the court.
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Quick Q: where does that tweet say Mount Rushmore is racist?
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Personally, I don't mind that Biden isn't being asked about statues. I don't think Trump should be asked about them either. I think it's mostly a very pointless non-issue that should be left to individual cities in question.
Mt Rushmore thing is pretty stupid. Doesn't directly call it out as racist, but implies it's insensitive to native americans. It is, but it's about the 50000th thing on the list of things that are that matter. I also read a very dumb op-ed whining about progressive groups asking for Warren as VP when they didn't mention the racial implications today.
Reddit taking down the Trump subreddit means very little as it'd been effectively quarantined and cutoff from everything for at least a year. So it's more of a blow to leftist groups than it was to Trump (was CTH really that bad? I've never been there).
Trump taking down the tweet was... his best move, but the response about why it took 3 hours is bonkers. Reports are saying that it was because his staff literally couldn't get in touch with him as he set his phone down to golf. Now, either they're lying to save face for him or they've just admitted that you can launch an attack without consequence for a few hours if Trump is golfing.
(Per NBC news - https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/trump-s-white-power-retweet-set-five-alarm-fire-white-n1232495 )
Can Flynn still be charged with perjury? I'm curious. The judge seemed really pissed off, and might do it just because he felt his time had been wasted.
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Northern Ireland24682 Posts
That’s quite a lot to unpack at once Mr Danglars. ‘I never fully understand the whole he's-stupid about face to he-read-understood-did-it-intentionally, but I'm not going to puzzle for hours trying to understand.’
I’m not really seeing an about-face, at least within here. Trump can behave incredibly stupidly, i.e. some of his ludicrous pronouncements around corona, and be fully aware of what he’s doing in other spheres, i.e. dogwhistling.
One doesn’t have to be the sharpest tool in the shed to know that ‘white power’ has extremely negative connotations and history attached to it over and above other more plausibly loaded framings like ‘all lives matter’.
Biden’s not saying a whole lot on a whole lot these days, especially stuff the ostensible left feels are important issues, that he’s not commenting on statue defacement isn’t much of a priority, but yes he should have some position on that and be asked about it too.
As per the religious liberty ruling I’ll have to do more reading on what the case was about and return with my thoughts then.
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On July 01 2020 01:36 Wombat_NI wrote: That’s quite a lot to unpack at once Mr Danglars. ‘I never fully understand the whole he's-stupid about face to he-read-understood-did-it-intentionally, but I'm not going to puzzle for hours trying to understand.’
I’m not really seeing an about-face, at least within here. Trump can behave incredibly stupidly, i.e. some of his ludicrous pronouncements around corona, and be fully aware of what he’s doing in other spheres, i.e. dogwhistling.
One doesn’t have to be the sharpest tool in the shed to know that ‘white power’ has extremely negative connotations and history attached to it over and above other more plausibly loaded framings like ‘all lives matter’.
Biden’s not saying a whole lot on a whole lot these days, especially stuff the ostensible left feels are important issues, that he’s not commenting on statue defacement isn’t much of a priority, but yes he should have some position on that and be asked about it too.
As per the religious liberty ruling I’ll have to do more reading on what the case was about and return with my thoughts then. I do see the “obvious dogwhistling” and “obviously oblivious” as mainly a matter of special pleading. Trump’s tweeted all manner of idiotic stuff, and he likes all kind of counter protesters to the woke iconoclasts of the moment. It fits with retweeting it for the meta point of response (and Trump’s big about punching back in whatever stupid way he can), and taking it down once someone points out the white power words. So I’ll agree to disagree with you there.
Biden is still running for president, and his campaigns silence on all kinds of matters of the day is self defeating. He has a heavy lift to prove himself mentally able to string sentences together into a point, and hiding from the public eye except for small, select appearances aids that narrative. And reporters praise his genius just laying low, if anybody was wondering how the media would respond to 4-8 years of Biden.
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Oh ye, the good old biden's old and decrepit. Meanwhile you have people clapping at trump's prowess, which was lifting a glass one handed or going down a steep ramp ! Nice. If you would read any transcripts of trump's interview, it looks like a 8yo who didn't study. It's not Boris Johnson, he's not faking it.
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Northern Ireland24682 Posts
On July 01 2020 02:03 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2020 01:36 Wombat_NI wrote: That’s quite a lot to unpack at once Mr Danglars. ‘I never fully understand the whole he's-stupid about face to he-read-understood-did-it-intentionally, but I'm not going to puzzle for hours trying to understand.’
I’m not really seeing an about-face, at least within here. Trump can behave incredibly stupidly, i.e. some of his ludicrous pronouncements around corona, and be fully aware of what he’s doing in other spheres, i.e. dogwhistling.
One doesn’t have to be the sharpest tool in the shed to know that ‘white power’ has extremely negative connotations and history attached to it over and above other more plausibly loaded framings like ‘all lives matter’.
Biden’s not saying a whole lot on a whole lot these days, especially stuff the ostensible left feels are important issues, that he’s not commenting on statue defacement isn’t much of a priority, but yes he should have some position on that and be asked about it too.
As per the religious liberty ruling I’ll have to do more reading on what the case was about and return with my thoughts then. I do see the “obvious dogwhistling” and “obviously oblivious” as mainly a matter of special pleading. Trump’s tweeted all manner of idiotic stuff, and he likes all kind of counter protesters to the woke iconoclasts of the moment. It fits with retweeting it for the meta point of response (and Trump’s big about punching back in whatever stupid way he can), and taking it down once someone points out the white power words. So I’ll agree to disagree with you there. Biden is still running for president, and his campaigns silence on all kinds of matters of the day is self defeating. He has a heavy lift to prove himself mentally able to string sentences together into a point, and hiding from the public eye except for small, select appearances aids that narrative. And reporters praise his genius just laying low, if anybody was wondering how the media would respond to 4-8 years of Biden. What are you disagreeing with? It fits entirely with my criticism of how Trump uses Twitter as a form of ‘owning the libs’ regardless of what villainry it emboldens.
Specifically the second point, you can do the former without retweeting guys shouting ‘white power’, be it careless or calculating the inclusion of such rhetoric in the Twitter output is just generally a bad move, both for general decency but increasingly in terms of self-interested political aggrandisement.
Even centrist types who’ve previously given Trump the benefit of the doubt re dogwhistling are changing their tune. I haven’t altered my arguments or put them forth more convincingly, he’s just throwing so much of it out that he’s doing it to himself.
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