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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 2339

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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting!

NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.

Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.


If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15686 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-05-30 03:16:54
May 30 2020 03:14 GMT
#46761
On May 30 2020 12:11 cLutZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 30 2020 11:30 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
On May 30 2020 11:14 Mohdoo wrote:
On May 30 2020 10:43 Starlightsun wrote:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fox5atlanta.com/news/demonstrations-turn-violent-in-atlanta-protest-against-death-of-george-floyd.amp

Protests in Atlanta turning violent as well... Scary.


Good. It is of extreme importance that everyone learns police only have the power we give them. They are below us, not above. They are only allowed to do what we consent to them doing. The current culture in the US glorifies police as if they are not only special, but a moral authority. I want that aspect of our culture to be destroyed as much as possible. Burning down precincts and stuff like that is an essential part to breaking down the image that our country has of police. The abuse towards minorities is untenable. Remember kneeling? Remember all the millions of other peaceful protests? Look at the number of minorities killed by cops this year and tell me it is working. People have the right to live. People have the right to feel safe. Police have destroyed that feeling for me and many other minorities. In the absence of any other solution, riots are the only thing left.

All I know is that if I feel what I feel as a Hispanic, Black People in America are living a nightmare. They have it much worse than we do. Much, much, much worse.

Well said. This one black man is tired. When you wake a sleeping giant, it isn't a beautiful sight. These protests need to last through summer. Make sure this is the American Summer (as opposed to Arab Spring) and make the changes denied, reality.


Really banking on no Covid outdoor transmission then? From my POV riots in a pandemic don't seem like the greatest idea. Given how vulnerable minority populations have already been, you'll kill more black men in a single year with protests than have been killed by cops in a half century.


You're making it very clearly how poorly you understand the issue with every post you make.

Edit: I'll expand. They know what they are doing. They understand the risks, and even knowing that, this is what is happening. It should make you wonder why this is so important to them.
Starlightsun
Profile Blog Joined June 2016
United States1405 Posts
May 30 2020 03:22 GMT
#46762
On May 30 2020 12:05 Mohdoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 30 2020 12:00 Starlightsun wrote:
I just wonder will they be able to affect change without leadership and concrete demands?


History has shown riots to be the most effective form of social change. Many, many times. If enough people get angry, things change, as they always have. That's why you're seeing such a big effort to make sure this doesn't balloon. Once critical mass is reached, all the government can do is kneel.


I hope you are right.
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15686 Posts
May 30 2020 03:25 GMT
#46763
On May 30 2020 12:22 Starlightsun wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 30 2020 12:05 Mohdoo wrote:
On May 30 2020 12:00 Starlightsun wrote:
I just wonder will they be able to affect change without leadership and concrete demands?


History has shown riots to be the most effective form of social change. Many, many times. If enough people get angry, things change, as they always have. That's why you're seeing such a big effort to make sure this doesn't balloon. Once critical mass is reached, all the government can do is kneel.


I hope you are right.

I am right about history, only question is how big this gets. If it fizzles, probably nothing happens
puppykiller
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States3126 Posts
May 30 2020 03:28 GMT
#46764
I grew up in a very liberal family in a very liberal community. My whole childhood I was exposed to countless anecdotes of police oppression of blacks. During my schooling we spent immense amount of time focusing on crimes against humanity in America's past. What this looks like to me is a generation of kids who were brought up to see America as a tyrannical society, who have spent years absorbing negative media of incidents of police misconduct (in a country with a population of 300 million I might add) finally getting an opportunity to vent their rage through destruction and violence on the property and police surrounding them.

Your opinion, manicured by the negative and pessimistic environment you were raised in, and exacerbated by viral news stories of random racist whites committing evils over the last decade... is now the greater societies suffering. Shame on you and your self-righteous garbage outlook. Nearly everyone I know supports change. But this isn't change it's just violence that you find cathartic.
Why would I play sctoo when I can play BW?
ZerOCoolSC2
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
8982 Posts
May 30 2020 03:29 GMT
#46765
On May 30 2020 12:14 Mohdoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 30 2020 12:11 cLutZ wrote:
On May 30 2020 11:30 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
On May 30 2020 11:14 Mohdoo wrote:
On May 30 2020 10:43 Starlightsun wrote:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fox5atlanta.com/news/demonstrations-turn-violent-in-atlanta-protest-against-death-of-george-floyd.amp

Protests in Atlanta turning violent as well... Scary.


Good. It is of extreme importance that everyone learns police only have the power we give them. They are below us, not above. They are only allowed to do what we consent to them doing. The current culture in the US glorifies police as if they are not only special, but a moral authority. I want that aspect of our culture to be destroyed as much as possible. Burning down precincts and stuff like that is an essential part to breaking down the image that our country has of police. The abuse towards minorities is untenable. Remember kneeling? Remember all the millions of other peaceful protests? Look at the number of minorities killed by cops this year and tell me it is working. People have the right to live. People have the right to feel safe. Police have destroyed that feeling for me and many other minorities. In the absence of any other solution, riots are the only thing left.

All I know is that if I feel what I feel as a Hispanic, Black People in America are living a nightmare. They have it much worse than we do. Much, much, much worse.

Well said. This one black man is tired. When you wake a sleeping giant, it isn't a beautiful sight. These protests need to last through summer. Make sure this is the American Summer (as opposed to Arab Spring) and make the changes denied, reality.


Really banking on no Covid outdoor transmission then? From my POV riots in a pandemic don't seem like the greatest idea. Given how vulnerable minority populations have already been, you'll kill more black men in a single year with protests than have been killed by cops in a half century.


You're making it very clearly how poorly you understand the issue with every post you make.

Edit: I'll expand. They know what they are doing. They understand the risks, and even knowing that, this is what is happening. It should make you wonder why this is so important to them.

They also highlight another issue with the current way most people think. Not cLutz explicitly, but they want this to wait until after the pandemic. To wait until it is 'safe' to protest. They want people to wait until a more 'appropriate time' to make demands.

The people have waited. Decades. Centuries. And they're tired of waiting. I'm tired of waiting.
StalkerTL
Profile Joined May 2020
212 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-05-30 03:42:57
May 30 2020 03:35 GMT
#46766
Is it any surprise that the protests have turned out as they have?

We have a government that has made it clear that they value the stock market and GDP numbers over the health of the wider population, most of which are the people who are protesting.

At this point, America has made it super clear that the country is clearly divided not just through racial but socio-economic lines. People don’t care about catching coronavirus, their lives aren’t getting any better and everyone in a position of power has made it clear that they think they should shut up and die for the betterment of their socio-economic betters. There’s not much left for these people to lose.

People who post or tweet stuff mocking their inability to social distance are brain dead because it shows an inability to comprehend why people riot violently in the first place.
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15686 Posts
May 30 2020 03:43 GMT
#46767
On May 30 2020 12:28 puppykiller wrote:
I grew up in a very liberal family in a very liberal community. My whole childhood I was exposed to countless anecdotes of police oppression of blacks. During my schooling we spent immense amount of time focusing on crimes against humanity in America's past. What this looks like to me is a generation of kids who were brought up to see America as a tyrannical society, who have spent years absorbing negative media of incidents of police misconduct (in a country with a population of 300 million I might add) finally getting an opportunity to vent their rage through destruction and violence on the property and police surrounding them.

Your opinion, manicured by the negative and pessimistic environment you were raised in, and exacerbated by viral news stories of random racist whites committing evils over the last decade... is now the greater societies suffering. Shame on you and your self-righteous garbage outlook. Nearly everyone I know supports change. But this isn't change it's just violence that you find cathartic.


lol, quite the resume. You're basically MLK the way you describe yourself. Why even bother chatting with people like us who are clearly nothing close to the activist and scholar you are? Liberal community and anecdotes? Why do I even bother posting when I have such a glorious beacon of knowledge in my presence? Please, go on.
NewSunshine
Profile Joined July 2011
United States5938 Posts
May 30 2020 03:56 GMT
#46768
On May 30 2020 12:43 Mohdoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 30 2020 12:28 puppykiller wrote:
I grew up in a very liberal family in a very liberal community. My whole childhood I was exposed to countless anecdotes of police oppression of blacks. During my schooling we spent immense amount of time focusing on crimes against humanity in America's past. What this looks like to me is a generation of kids who were brought up to see America as a tyrannical society, who have spent years absorbing negative media of incidents of police misconduct (in a country with a population of 300 million I might add) finally getting an opportunity to vent their rage through destruction and violence on the property and police surrounding them.

Your opinion, manicured by the negative and pessimistic environment you were raised in, and exacerbated by viral news stories of random racist whites committing evils over the last decade... is now the greater societies suffering. Shame on you and your self-righteous garbage outlook. Nearly everyone I know supports change. But this isn't change it's just violence that you find cathartic.


lol, quite the resume. You're basically MLK the way you describe yourself. Why even bother chatting with people like us who are clearly nothing close to the activist and scholar you are? Liberal community and anecdotes? Why do I even bother posting when I have such a glorious beacon of knowledge in my presence? Please, go on.

Sounds like one of those Enlightened Centrists, come to extol the virtue of incremental change, and show us the way that we've all been missing. If only it were so obvious to us.
"If you find yourself feeling lost, take pride in the accuracy of your feelings." - Night Vale
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United Kingdom13775 Posts
May 30 2020 03:58 GMT
#46769
On May 30 2020 12:14 Mohdoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 30 2020 12:11 cLutZ wrote:
On May 30 2020 11:30 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
On May 30 2020 11:14 Mohdoo wrote:
On May 30 2020 10:43 Starlightsun wrote:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fox5atlanta.com/news/demonstrations-turn-violent-in-atlanta-protest-against-death-of-george-floyd.amp

Protests in Atlanta turning violent as well... Scary.


Good. It is of extreme importance that everyone learns police only have the power we give them. They are below us, not above. They are only allowed to do what we consent to them doing. The current culture in the US glorifies police as if they are not only special, but a moral authority. I want that aspect of our culture to be destroyed as much as possible. Burning down precincts and stuff like that is an essential part to breaking down the image that our country has of police. The abuse towards minorities is untenable. Remember kneeling? Remember all the millions of other peaceful protests? Look at the number of minorities killed by cops this year and tell me it is working. People have the right to live. People have the right to feel safe. Police have destroyed that feeling for me and many other minorities. In the absence of any other solution, riots are the only thing left.

All I know is that if I feel what I feel as a Hispanic, Black People in America are living a nightmare. They have it much worse than we do. Much, much, much worse.

Well said. This one black man is tired. When you wake a sleeping giant, it isn't a beautiful sight. These protests need to last through summer. Make sure this is the American Summer (as opposed to Arab Spring) and make the changes denied, reality.


Really banking on no Covid outdoor transmission then? From my POV riots in a pandemic don't seem like the greatest idea. Given how vulnerable minority populations have already been, you'll kill more black men in a single year with protests than have been killed by cops in a half century.


You're making it very clearly how poorly you understand the issue with every post you make.

Edit: I'll expand. They know what they are doing. They understand the risks, and even knowing that, this is what is happening. It should make you wonder why this is so important to them.

Honestly, if I were willing to take part in a violent riot... an ongoing pandemic wouldn’t even be the biggest risk to life I’d be taking.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
puppykiller
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States3126 Posts
May 30 2020 04:00 GMT
#46770
This is how I see a lot of the people around me. Does this reflect your experience? Can you tell me about how the society has brutalized you specifically? Or were you also trained as a little boy to interpret America through this lens.

Perhaps if you can articulate how your perspective is derived from your life and your immediate community I can find a middle ground. I bet if you can you will share it. I bet if you can't you'll divert to sarcasm rather than reflecting on your self-righteous hatred.
Why would I play sctoo when I can play BW?
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-05-30 04:13:52
May 30 2020 04:09 GMT
#46771
On May 30 2020 12:29 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 30 2020 12:14 Mohdoo wrote:
On May 30 2020 12:11 cLutZ wrote:
On May 30 2020 11:30 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
On May 30 2020 11:14 Mohdoo wrote:
On May 30 2020 10:43 Starlightsun wrote:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fox5atlanta.com/news/demonstrations-turn-violent-in-atlanta-protest-against-death-of-george-floyd.amp

Protests in Atlanta turning violent as well... Scary.


Good. It is of extreme importance that everyone learns police only have the power we give them. They are below us, not above. They are only allowed to do what we consent to them doing. The current culture in the US glorifies police as if they are not only special, but a moral authority. I want that aspect of our culture to be destroyed as much as possible. Burning down precincts and stuff like that is an essential part to breaking down the image that our country has of police. The abuse towards minorities is untenable. Remember kneeling? Remember all the millions of other peaceful protests? Look at the number of minorities killed by cops this year and tell me it is working. People have the right to live. People have the right to feel safe. Police have destroyed that feeling for me and many other minorities. In the absence of any other solution, riots are the only thing left.

All I know is that if I feel what I feel as a Hispanic, Black People in America are living a nightmare. They have it much worse than we do. Much, much, much worse.

Well said. This one black man is tired. When you wake a sleeping giant, it isn't a beautiful sight. These protests need to last through summer. Make sure this is the American Summer (as opposed to Arab Spring) and make the changes denied, reality.


Really banking on no Covid outdoor transmission then? From my POV riots in a pandemic don't seem like the greatest idea. Given how vulnerable minority populations have already been, you'll kill more black men in a single year with protests than have been killed by cops in a half century.


You're making it very clearly how poorly you understand the issue with every post you make.

Edit: I'll expand. They know what they are doing. They understand the risks, and even knowing that, this is what is happening. It should make you wonder why this is so important to them.

They also highlight another issue with the current way most people think. Not cLutz explicitly, but they want this to wait until after the pandemic. To wait until it is 'safe' to protest. They want people to wait until a more 'appropriate time' to make demands.

The people have waited. Decades. Centuries. And they're tired of waiting. I'm tired of waiting.


I don't think the pandemic should put everything on hold, I just struggle to appreciate this combination. BLM and its related movements look a lot like AOC's Green New Deal in their policy positions. How can the same solutions solve global warming and police brutality? Also I would like to see someone steelman the case that this is, indeed a problem uniquely for minorities. FBI statistics show they commit crimes at higher rates, including at or above 50% for the crime where selective reporting is the least likely cause: Murder. Doesn't this mean they are just going to naturally interact with police more often? Given my base position that people are mostly assholes, and cops are mostly in the top 10% of that isn't focusing on the racial aspect likely to stop you from solving the problem?

From my POV the #1 most effective thing in helping the problem would be de-certifying and banning police unions. That's not listed highly on the top google results, if at all. Again, there proposals to me seem mostly like your regular left of center wish list which is why I said up above that they are a force projection from the establishment.

> Another data point that they aren't really a threat to the establishment is that establishment media aren't treating them like a threat, they are treating them like allies.
Freeeeeeedom
ZerOCoolSC2
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
8982 Posts
May 30 2020 04:21 GMT
#46772
On May 30 2020 13:09 cLutZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 30 2020 12:29 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
On May 30 2020 12:14 Mohdoo wrote:
On May 30 2020 12:11 cLutZ wrote:
On May 30 2020 11:30 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
On May 30 2020 11:14 Mohdoo wrote:
On May 30 2020 10:43 Starlightsun wrote:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fox5atlanta.com/news/demonstrations-turn-violent-in-atlanta-protest-against-death-of-george-floyd.amp

Protests in Atlanta turning violent as well... Scary.


Good. It is of extreme importance that everyone learns police only have the power we give them. They are below us, not above. They are only allowed to do what we consent to them doing. The current culture in the US glorifies police as if they are not only special, but a moral authority. I want that aspect of our culture to be destroyed as much as possible. Burning down precincts and stuff like that is an essential part to breaking down the image that our country has of police. The abuse towards minorities is untenable. Remember kneeling? Remember all the millions of other peaceful protests? Look at the number of minorities killed by cops this year and tell me it is working. People have the right to live. People have the right to feel safe. Police have destroyed that feeling for me and many other minorities. In the absence of any other solution, riots are the only thing left.

All I know is that if I feel what I feel as a Hispanic, Black People in America are living a nightmare. They have it much worse than we do. Much, much, much worse.

Well said. This one black man is tired. When you wake a sleeping giant, it isn't a beautiful sight. These protests need to last through summer. Make sure this is the American Summer (as opposed to Arab Spring) and make the changes denied, reality.


Really banking on no Covid outdoor transmission then? From my POV riots in a pandemic don't seem like the greatest idea. Given how vulnerable minority populations have already been, you'll kill more black men in a single year with protests than have been killed by cops in a half century.


You're making it very clearly how poorly you understand the issue with every post you make.

Edit: I'll expand. They know what they are doing. They understand the risks, and even knowing that, this is what is happening. It should make you wonder why this is so important to them.

They also highlight another issue with the current way most people think. Not cLutz explicitly, but they want this to wait until after the pandemic. To wait until it is 'safe' to protest. They want people to wait until a more 'appropriate time' to make demands.

The people have waited. Decades. Centuries. And they're tired of waiting. I'm tired of waiting.


I don't think the pandemic should put everything on hold, I just struggle to appreciate this combination. BLM and its related movements look a lot like AOC's Green New Deal in their policy positions. How can the same solutions solve global warming and police brutality? Also I would like to see someone steelman the case that this is, indeed a problem uniquely for minorities. FBI statistics show they commit crimes at higher rates, including at or above 50% for the crime where selective reporting is the least likely cause: Murder. Doesn't this mean they are just going to naturally interact with police more often? Given my base position that people are mostly assholes, and cops are mostly in the top 10% of that isn't focusing on the racial aspect likely to stop you from solving the problem?

From my POV the #1 most effective thing in helping the problem would be de-certifying and banning police unions. That's not listed highly on the top google results, if at all. Again, there proposals to me seem mostly like your regular left of center wish list which is why I said up above that they are a force projection from the establishment.

> Another data point that they aren't really a threat to the establishment is that establishment media aren't treating them like a threat, they are treating them like allies.

Of course FBI stats are going to show minorities are causing a lot more of the crimes. They're policed a helluva lot harder than whites. They're also under-policed so that means they do it themselves and that is a recipe for some of the worst neighborhoods in America. They're also disproportionately poorer on average than whites, so that is going to cause strife/stress which in turn leads to crime. You look at the % of population and then the % of crimes and you see it skews heavily towards minorities. Those stats are misleading to have you believe that by nature, minorities are just crime prone.

I'm not part of BLM or any other organization for that matter, so I can't speak to what their goals are. You'd have to ask someone who is.

And of course these protests aren't registering on the radar for the establishment, they haven't done anything to harm them. Yet. But when they do, if they do, you'll see how people react. Fuck with the money, and you'll see how quick these "non-threats" become a very serious threat.

But I have to allude back to Vivax and state that the US is being looted on a different level than anything these protests will do.
MarlieChurphy
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
United States2063 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-05-30 04:41:29
May 30 2020 04:40 GMT
#46773
Ok say what you want about Trump, but this shit is based AF https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/executive-order-preventing-online-censorship/ + Show Spoiler +

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Executive Order on Preventing Online Censorship

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Issued on: May 28, 2020

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By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, it is hereby ordered as follows:

Section 1. Policy. Free speech is the bedrock of American democracy. Our Founding Fathers protected this sacred right with the First Amendment to the Constitution. The freedom to express and debate ideas is the foundation for all of our rights as a free people.

In a country that has long cherished the freedom of expression, we cannot allow a limited number of online platforms to hand pick the speech that Americans may access and convey on the internet. This practice is fundamentally un-American and anti-democratic. When large, powerful social media companies censor opinions with which they disagree, they exercise a dangerous power. They cease functioning as passive bulletin boards, and ought to be viewed and treated as content creators.

The growth of online platforms in recent years raises important questions about applying the ideals of the First Amendment to modern communications technology. Today, many Americans follow the news, stay in touch with friends and family, and share their views on current events through social media and other online platforms. As a result, these platforms function in many ways as a 21st century equivalent of the public square.

Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube wield immense, if not unprecedented, power to shape the interpretation of public events; to censor, delete, or disappear information; and to control what people see or do not see.

As President, I have made clear my commitment to free and open debate on the internet. Such debate is just as important online as it is in our universities, our town halls, and our homes. It is essential to sustaining our democracy.

Online platforms are engaging in selective censorship that is harming our national discourse. Tens of thousands of Americans have reported, among other troubling behaviors, online platforms “flagging” content as inappropriate, even though it does not violate any stated terms of service; making unannounced and unexplained changes to company policies that have the effect of disfavoring certain viewpoints; and deleting content and entire accounts with no warning, no rationale, and no recourse.

Twitter now selectively decides to place a warning label on certain tweets in a manner that clearly reflects political bias. As has been reported, Twitter seems never to have placed such a label on another politician’s tweet. As recently as last week, Representative Adam Schiff was continuing to mislead his followers by peddling the long-disproved Russian Collusion Hoax, and Twitter did not flag those tweets. Unsurprisingly, its officer in charge of so-called ‘Site Integrity’ has flaunted his political bias in his own tweets.

At the same time online platforms are invoking inconsistent, irrational, and groundless justifications to censor or otherwise restrict Americans’ speech here at home, several online platforms are profiting from and promoting the aggression and disinformation spread by foreign governments like China. One United States company, for example, created a search engine for the Chinese Communist Party that would have blacklisted searches for “human rights,” hid data unfavorable to the Chinese Communist Party, and tracked users determined appropriate for surveillance. It also established research partnerships in China that provide direct benefits to the Chinese military. Other companies have accepted advertisements paid for by the Chinese government that spread false information about China’s mass imprisonment of religious minorities, thereby enabling these abuses of human rights. They have also amplified China’s propaganda abroad, including by allowing Chinese government officials to use their platforms to spread misinformation regarding the origins of the COVID-19 pandemic, and to undermine pro-democracy protests in Hong Kong.

As a Nation, we must foster and protect diverse viewpoints in today’s digital communications environment where all Americans can and should have a voice. We must seek transparency and accountability from online platforms, and encourage standards and tools to protect and preserve the integrity and openness of American discourse and freedom of expression.

Sec. 2. Protections Against Online Censorship. (a) It is the policy of the United States to foster clear ground rules promoting free and open debate on the internet. Prominent among the ground rules governing that debate is the immunity from liability created by section 230(c) of the Communications Decency Act (section 230(c)). 47 U.S.C. 230(c). It is the policy of the United States that the scope of that immunity should be clarified: the immunity should not extend beyond its text and purpose to provide protection for those who purport to provide users a forum for free and open speech, but in reality use their power over a vital means of communication to engage in deceptive or pretextual actions stifling free and open debate by censoring certain viewpoints.

Section 230(c) was designed to address early court decisions holding that, if an online platform restricted access to some content posted by others, it would thereby become a “publisher” of all the content posted on its site for purposes of torts such as defamation. As the title of section 230(c) makes clear, the provision provides limited liability “protection” to a provider of an interactive computer service (such as an online platform) that engages in “‘Good Samaritan’ blocking” of harmful content. In particular, the Congress sought to provide protections for online platforms that attempted to protect minors from harmful content and intended to ensure that such providers would not be discouraged from taking down harmful material. The provision was also intended to further the express vision of the Congress that the internet is a “forum for a true diversity of political discourse.” 47 U.S.C. 230(a)(3). The limited protections provided by the statute should be construed with these purposes in mind.

In particular, subparagraph (c)(2) expressly addresses protections from “civil liability” and specifies that an interactive computer service provider may not be made liable “on account of” its decision in “good faith” to restrict access to content that it considers to be “obscene, lewd, lascivious, filthy, excessively violent, harassing or otherwise objectionable.” It is the policy of the United States to ensure that, to the maximum extent permissible under the law, this provision is not distorted to provide liability protection for online platforms that — far from acting in “good faith” to remove objectionable content — instead engage in deceptive or pretextual actions (often contrary to their stated terms of service) to stifle viewpoints with which they disagree. Section 230 was not intended to allow a handful of companies to grow into titans controlling vital avenues for our national discourse under the guise of promoting open forums for debate, and then to provide those behemoths blanket immunity when they use their power to censor content and silence viewpoints that they dislike. When an interactive computer service provider removes or restricts access to content and its actions do not meet the criteria of subparagraph (c)(2)(A), it is engaged in editorial conduct. It is the policy of the United States that such a provider should properly lose the limited liability shield of subparagraph (c)(2)(A) and be exposed to liability like any traditional editor and publisher that is not an online provider.

(b) To advance the policy described in subsection (a) of this section, all executive departments and agencies should ensure that their application of section 230(c) properly reflects the narrow purpose of the section and take all appropriate actions in this regard. In addition, within 60 days of the date of this order, the Secretary of Commerce (Secretary), in consultation with the Attorney General, and acting through the National Telecommunications and Information Administration (NTIA), shall file a petition for rulemaking with the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) requesting that the FCC expeditiously propose regulations to clarify:

(i) the interaction between subparagraphs (c)(1) and (c)(2) of section 230, in particular to clarify and determine the circumstances under which a provider of an interactive computer service that restricts access to content in a manner not specifically protected by subparagraph (c)(2)(A) may also not be able to claim protection under subparagraph (c)(1), which merely states that a provider shall not be treated as a publisher or speaker for making third-party content available and does not address the provider’s responsibility for its own editorial decisions;

(ii) the conditions under which an action restricting access to or availability of material is not “taken in good faith” within the meaning of subparagraph (c)(2)(A) of section 230, particularly whether actions can be “taken in good faith” if they are:

(A) deceptive, pretextual, or inconsistent with a provider’s terms of service; or

(B) taken after failing to provide adequate notice, reasoned explanation, or a meaningful opportunity to be heard; and

(iii) any other proposed regulations that the NTIA concludes may be appropriate to advance the policy described in subsection (a) of this section.

Sec. 3. Protecting Federal Taxpayer Dollars from Financing Online Platforms That Restrict Free Speech. (a) The head of each executive department and agency (agency) shall review its agency’s Federal spending on advertising and marketing paid to online platforms. Such review shall include the amount of money spent, the online platforms that receive Federal dollars, and the statutory authorities available to restrict their receipt of advertising dollars.

(b) Within 30 days of the date of this order, the head of each agency shall report its findings to the Director of the Office of Management and Budget.

(c) The Department of Justice shall review the viewpoint-based speech restrictions imposed by each online platform identified in the report described in subsection (b) of this section and assess whether any online platforms are problematic vehicles for government speech due to viewpoint discrimination, deception to consumers, or other bad practices.

Sec. 4. Federal Review of Unfair or Deceptive Acts or Practices. (a) It is the policy of the United States that large online platforms, such as Twitter and Facebook, as the critical means of promoting the free flow of speech and ideas today, should not restrict protected speech. The Supreme Court has noted that social media sites, as the modern public square, “can provide perhaps the most powerful mechanisms available to a private citizen to make his or her voice heard.” Packingham v. North Carolina, 137 S. Ct. 1730, 1737 (2017). Communication through these channels has become important for meaningful participation in American democracy, including to petition elected leaders. These sites are providing an important forum to the public for others to engage in free expression and debate. Cf. PruneYard Shopping Center v. Robins, 447 U.S. 74, 85-89 (1980).

(b) In May of 2019, the White House launched a Tech Bias Reporting tool to allow Americans to report incidents of online censorship. In just weeks, the White House received over 16,000 complaints of online platforms censoring or otherwise taking action against users based on their political viewpoints. The White House will submit such complaints received to the Department of Justice and the Federal Trade Commission (FTC).

(c) The FTC shall consider taking action, as appropriate and consistent with applicable law, to prohibit unfair or deceptive acts or practices in or affecting commerce, pursuant to section 45 of title 15, United States Code. Such unfair or deceptive acts or practice may include practices by entities covered by section 230 that restrict speech in ways that do not align with those entities’ public representations about those practices.

(d) For large online platforms that are vast arenas for public debate, including the social media platform Twitter, the FTC shall also, consistent with its legal authority, consider whether complaints allege violations of law that implicate the policies set forth in section 4(a) of this order. The FTC shall consider developing a report describing such complaints and making the report publicly available, consistent with applicable law.

Sec. 5. State Review of Unfair or Deceptive Acts or Practices and Anti-Discrimination Laws. (a) The Attorney General shall establish a working group regarding the potential enforcement of State statutes that prohibit online platforms from engaging in unfair or deceptive acts or practices. The working group shall also develop model legislation for consideration by legislatures in States where existing statutes do not protect Americans from such unfair and deceptive acts and practices. The working group shall invite State Attorneys General for discussion and consultation, as appropriate and consistent with applicable law.

(b) Complaints described in section 4(b) of this order will be shared with the working group, consistent with applicable law. The working group shall also collect publicly available information regarding the following:

(i) increased scrutiny of users based on the other users they choose to follow, or their interactions with other users;

(ii) algorithms to suppress content or users based on indications of political alignment or viewpoint;

(iii) differential policies allowing for otherwise impermissible behavior, when committed by accounts associated with the Chinese Communist Party or other anti-democratic associations or governments;

(iv) reliance on third-party entities, including contractors, media organizations, and individuals, with indicia of bias to review content; and

(v) acts that limit the ability of users with particular viewpoints to earn money on the platform compared with other users similarly situated.

Sec. 6. Legislation. The Attorney General shall develop a proposal for Federal legislation that would be useful to promote the policy objectives of this order.

Sec. 7. Definition. For purposes of this order, the term “online platform” means any website or application that allows users to create and share content or engage in social networking, or any general search engine.

Sec. 8. General Provisions. (a) Nothing in this order shall be construed to impair or otherwise affect:

(i) the authority granted by law to an executive department or agency, or the head thereof; or

(ii) the functions of the Director of the Office of Management and Budget relating to budgetary, administrative, or legislative proposals.

(b) This order shall be implemented consistent with applicable law and subject to the availability of appropriations.

(c) This order is not intended to, and does not, create any right or benefit, substantive or procedural, enforceable at law or in equity by any party against the United States, its departments, agencies, or entities, its officers, employees, or agents, or any other person.
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So can I sue TL for all the bans retroactively now? lol

Be prepared for Jones vs Twitter/YT/FB/Google setting a presidence on future law and social media being bankrupted and replaced with more democratic social media.
RIP SPOR 11/24/11 NEVAR FORGET
ChristianS
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States3188 Posts
May 30 2020 05:02 GMT
#46774
You can sue TL for shit 3rd parties posted on the forum. But don’t get too excited, just wait til I sue you for some shit somebody posted as a comment on your blog
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." -Robert J. Hanlon
Slydie
Profile Joined August 2013
1915 Posts
May 30 2020 05:08 GMT
#46775
On May 30 2020 13:00 puppykiller wrote:
This is how I see a lot of the people around me. Does this reflect your experience? Can you tell me about how the society has brutalized you specifically? Or were you also trained as a little boy to interpret America through this lens.

Perhaps if you can articulate how your perspective is derived from your life and your immediate community I can find a middle ground. I bet if you can you will share it. I bet if you can't you'll divert to sarcasm rather than reflecting on your self-righteous hatred.


Police brutality is a MAJOR issue in the US compared to other countries, and it has been for a very long time. Here is an article from 2015. One example: 19 unarmed black men killed by the police during 5 months of 2015 i the US. 15 citizens of any race, armed or unarmed, were killed in 2 years in Germany.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jun/09/the-counted-police-killings-us-vs-other-countries

There were riots for very similar reasons back in 1992:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Los_Angeles_riots

You just can't give the police carte blanche to do whatever they want and get away with it. Politicians have had decades to deal with this problem.

Personally, I would have preferred to make this less of a race issue, as the police kills a lot of people of any race, but given how blacks are over represented, I understand that it is.
Buff the siegetank
puppykiller
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States3126 Posts
May 30 2020 05:27 GMT
#46776
I agree that police murders of unarmed people are unacceptable. I agree many cops have an irrational fear when making arrests. I also agree that some number of cops clearly have an irrational fear of black men which leads them to treat them in an inhumane way. What I don't like is when one of these idiot cops kills someone and it validates an entire narrative condemning all police, which then in turn leads people to seek outlandish levels of retribution against people that vocally support their cause.
Why would I play sctoo when I can play BW?
ZerOCoolSC2
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
8982 Posts
May 30 2020 05:39 GMT
#46777
On May 30 2020 14:27 puppykiller wrote:
I agree that police murders of unarmed people are unacceptable. I agree many cops have an irrational fear when making arrests. I also agree that some number of cops clearly have an irrational fear of black men which leads them to treat them in an inhumane way. What I don't like is when one of these idiot cops kills someone and it validates an entire narrative condemning all police, which then in turn leads people to seek outlandish levels of retribution against people that vocally support their cause.

That's where the disconnect is. No one is condemning all police. They are condemning the good ones that stand by and do nothing. They are condemning the "no investigate our own" fraternity that is perpetuated around the country. They want people who are vocally on their side, to actually do something besides send thoughts and prayers. To do something more than pay lip service.
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
May 30 2020 05:40 GMT
#46778
On May 30 2020 13:09 cLutZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 30 2020 12:29 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
On May 30 2020 12:14 Mohdoo wrote:
On May 30 2020 12:11 cLutZ wrote:
On May 30 2020 11:30 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
On May 30 2020 11:14 Mohdoo wrote:
On May 30 2020 10:43 Starlightsun wrote:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fox5atlanta.com/news/demonstrations-turn-violent-in-atlanta-protest-against-death-of-george-floyd.amp

Protests in Atlanta turning violent as well... Scary.


Good. It is of extreme importance that everyone learns police only have the power we give them. They are below us, not above. They are only allowed to do what we consent to them doing. The current culture in the US glorifies police as if they are not only special, but a moral authority. I want that aspect of our culture to be destroyed as much as possible. Burning down precincts and stuff like that is an essential part to breaking down the image that our country has of police. The abuse towards minorities is untenable. Remember kneeling? Remember all the millions of other peaceful protests? Look at the number of minorities killed by cops this year and tell me it is working. People have the right to live. People have the right to feel safe. Police have destroyed that feeling for me and many other minorities. In the absence of any other solution, riots are the only thing left.

All I know is that if I feel what I feel as a Hispanic, Black People in America are living a nightmare. They have it much worse than we do. Much, much, much worse.

Well said. This one black man is tired. When you wake a sleeping giant, it isn't a beautiful sight. These protests need to last through summer. Make sure this is the American Summer (as opposed to Arab Spring) and make the changes denied, reality.


Really banking on no Covid outdoor transmission then? From my POV riots in a pandemic don't seem like the greatest idea. Given how vulnerable minority populations have already been, you'll kill more black men in a single year with protests than have been killed by cops in a half century.


You're making it very clearly how poorly you understand the issue with every post you make.

Edit: I'll expand. They know what they are doing. They understand the risks, and even knowing that, this is what is happening. It should make you wonder why this is so important to them.

They also highlight another issue with the current way most people think. Not cLutz explicitly, but they want this to wait until after the pandemic. To wait until it is 'safe' to protest. They want people to wait until a more 'appropriate time' to make demands.

The people have waited. Decades. Centuries. And they're tired of waiting. I'm tired of waiting.


I don't think the pandemic should put everything on hold, I just struggle to appreciate this combination. BLM and its related movements look a lot like AOC's Green New Deal in their policy positions. How can the same solutions solve global warming and police brutality? Also I would like to see someone steelman the case that this is, indeed a problem uniquely for minorities. FBI statistics show they commit crimes at higher rates, including at or above 50% for the crime where selective reporting is the least likely cause: Murder. Doesn't this mean they are just going to naturally interact with police more often? Given my base position that people are mostly assholes, and cops are mostly in the top 10% of that isn't focusing on the racial aspect likely to stop you from solving the problem?

From my POV the #1 most effective thing in helping the problem would be de-certifying and banning police unions. That's not listed highly on the top google results, if at all. Again, there proposals to me seem mostly like your regular left of center wish list which is why I said up above that they are a force projection from the establishment.

> Another data point that they aren't really a threat to the establishment is that establishment media aren't treating them like a threat, they are treating them like allies.

Decertifying police unions in their current form would be a huge good change. The trouble would be if the abuse swings the other way on inner city community policing. And of course people here like to blame the decline of unions for all kinds of societal ills, but they fail to connect the power of public employee unions to problems in public employees. Oh well. The obvious examples are NYPD and LAPD, and from what sermo says, Minneapolis PD too. But I don’t think there’s any political will to go hard against the police unions that wield such political power in the selection of mayors and council members.

I heard some pretty harsh comments on protestors without masks agitating against arbitrary business closures and lengthy extensions to lockdowns. It’s a tiny bit strange that that criticism just drops off when it’s violent protestors with major stuff to protest. You kind of understand their biases through these situations.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
StalkerTL
Profile Joined May 2020
212 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-05-30 05:44:08
May 30 2020 05:41 GMT
#46779
There’s absolutely no reason for minorities to hand an olive branch to the police and justice system when they have screwed them for the entirety of the history of the United States.

At the end of the day, it isn’t the minorities that have to make the first move since they don’t hold the power in this situation. This police officer can choke someone to death, an exceptionally personal method of killing someone, and still only get charged with third degree murder and have the entire police force defend him.

Removing police unions doesn’t solve the inherent problem that police in America are protected by those in power and those in power control a justice system that is stacked against anymore who isn’t white and/or wealthy.
ZerOCoolSC2
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
8982 Posts
May 30 2020 05:49 GMT
#46780
On May 30 2020 14:40 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 30 2020 13:09 cLutZ wrote:
On May 30 2020 12:29 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
On May 30 2020 12:14 Mohdoo wrote:
On May 30 2020 12:11 cLutZ wrote:
On May 30 2020 11:30 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
On May 30 2020 11:14 Mohdoo wrote:
On May 30 2020 10:43 Starlightsun wrote:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fox5atlanta.com/news/demonstrations-turn-violent-in-atlanta-protest-against-death-of-george-floyd.amp

Protests in Atlanta turning violent as well... Scary.


Good. It is of extreme importance that everyone learns police only have the power we give them. They are below us, not above. They are only allowed to do what we consent to them doing. The current culture in the US glorifies police as if they are not only special, but a moral authority. I want that aspect of our culture to be destroyed as much as possible. Burning down precincts and stuff like that is an essential part to breaking down the image that our country has of police. The abuse towards minorities is untenable. Remember kneeling? Remember all the millions of other peaceful protests? Look at the number of minorities killed by cops this year and tell me it is working. People have the right to live. People have the right to feel safe. Police have destroyed that feeling for me and many other minorities. In the absence of any other solution, riots are the only thing left.

All I know is that if I feel what I feel as a Hispanic, Black People in America are living a nightmare. They have it much worse than we do. Much, much, much worse.

Well said. This one black man is tired. When you wake a sleeping giant, it isn't a beautiful sight. These protests need to last through summer. Make sure this is the American Summer (as opposed to Arab Spring) and make the changes denied, reality.


Really banking on no Covid outdoor transmission then? From my POV riots in a pandemic don't seem like the greatest idea. Given how vulnerable minority populations have already been, you'll kill more black men in a single year with protests than have been killed by cops in a half century.


You're making it very clearly how poorly you understand the issue with every post you make.

Edit: I'll expand. They know what they are doing. They understand the risks, and even knowing that, this is what is happening. It should make you wonder why this is so important to them.

They also highlight another issue with the current way most people think. Not cLutz explicitly, but they want this to wait until after the pandemic. To wait until it is 'safe' to protest. They want people to wait until a more 'appropriate time' to make demands.

The people have waited. Decades. Centuries. And they're tired of waiting. I'm tired of waiting.


I don't think the pandemic should put everything on hold, I just struggle to appreciate this combination. BLM and its related movements look a lot like AOC's Green New Deal in their policy positions. How can the same solutions solve global warming and police brutality? Also I would like to see someone steelman the case that this is, indeed a problem uniquely for minorities. FBI statistics show they commit crimes at higher rates, including at or above 50% for the crime where selective reporting is the least likely cause: Murder. Doesn't this mean they are just going to naturally interact with police more often? Given my base position that people are mostly assholes, and cops are mostly in the top 10% of that isn't focusing on the racial aspect likely to stop you from solving the problem?

From my POV the #1 most effective thing in helping the problem would be de-certifying and banning police unions. That's not listed highly on the top google results, if at all. Again, there proposals to me seem mostly like your regular left of center wish list which is why I said up above that they are a force projection from the establishment.

> Another data point that they aren't really a threat to the establishment is that establishment media aren't treating them like a threat, they are treating them like allies.

Decertifying police unions in their current form would be a huge good change. The trouble would be if the abuse swings the other way on inner city community policing. And of course people here like to blame the decline of unions for all kinds of societal ills, but they fail to connect the power of public employee unions to problems in public employees. Oh well. The obvious examples are NYPD and LAPD, and from what sermo says, Minneapolis PD too. But I don’t think there’s any political will to go hard against the police unions that wield such political power in the selection of mayors and council members.

I heard some pretty harsh comments on protestors without masks agitating against arbitrary business closures and lengthy extensions to lockdowns. It’s a tiny bit strange that that criticism just drops off when it’s violent protestors with major stuff to protest. You kind of understand their biases through these situations.

Your "protestors" (who were armed and stormed a government building no less) were protesting getting a hair cut and having a beer because they couldn't stay isolated so long.

Trying to compare the two is very telling and you really should be ashamed of yourself.
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