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On May 30 2020 00:53 NewSunshine wrote:
Imagine genuinely believing the notion that black folks, who have zero guarantee of not being arbitrarily murdered by the police on any given day, should deserve to be called "the worst of society" for it as well.
Just try to imagine the outrage if white people were even improperly detained by police. Black folks get strangled, or they get a knee to the neck. Or they get shot 8 times. Take your pick. What you're seeing is tame.
Actually, cops kill more whites https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/
The media tend to ignore these incidents.
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On May 30 2020 02:11 reborn8u2 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2020 00:53 NewSunshine wrote:
Imagine genuinely believing the notion that black folks, who have zero guarantee of not being arbitrarily murdered by the police on any given day, should deserve to be called "the worst of society" for it as well.
Just try to imagine the outrage if white people were even improperly detained by police. Black folks get strangled, or they get a knee to the neck. Or they get shot 8 times. Take your pick. What you're seeing is tame. Actually, cops kill more whites https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/The media tend to ignore these incidents.
Those stats are pretty misleading, because there are about 5x as many white people as black people (197 million vs 42 million). IE, for the numbers to be equivalent whites would need to have 5x as many shooting deaths... not 2x.
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On May 30 2020 01:22 Velr wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2020 01:00 Xxio wrote:On May 30 2020 00:53 NewSunshine wrote:
Imagine genuinely believing the notion that black folks, who have zero guarantee of not being arbitrarily murdered by the police on any given day, should deserve to be called "the worst of society" for it as well.
Just try to imagine the outrage if white people were even improperly detained by police. Black folks get strangled, or they get a knee to the neck. Or they get shot 8 times. Take your pick. What you're seeing is tame. I present to you The Shooting of Daniel Shaver. Bodycam footage. No riots. "Brailsford[the officer] was reinstated to the Mesa Police Department in August 2018, then over a month later was granted retirement on medical grounds, as well as a pension of $2,500 per month." Riots Destroy $30M Affordable Housing Project "The six-story, 190-unit affordable housing project had been slated to open in the spring of 2021." I don't think claiming that this kind of violence was done in George Floyd's memory justifies the action. Anyone can cloak their violent, destructive desires with an appeal for compassion. From what i could gather white people get shot just as often as black people by the police. But black people are overpoliced so... In general there are just absurd amounts of unjustified deaths by cop in the US and a general tendency to ridiculous excess of force. Yes, it also happens in europe. But these seem to be very insular cases that people talk years about, in the US you can find one every few weeks if not more?
Yeah, i don't really want to get into the race thing, simply because i cannot say a lot about that.
But US cops just kill way too many citizens in general, and get away with it too easily (They also seem to kill even more black people). It is kind of hard to get good data on that because the US administration just doesn't collect it. That alone should be a telltale sign that something is very wrong.
But lets take look at this list:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_by_country
If we sort by killings per million, the US is slightly below mexico, and slightly above bangladesh. Compare the US number of 28.4 killings per million citizens with that of, for example, my homeland of Germany (1.3). Note that the US number is about 20 times as large as the german one. This is clearly and very obviously a major problem.
In fact, the German police fires less shots in total than the US police kills citizens, per capita. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_firearm_use_by_country#Germany
I think it should be very clear and obvious that there is a major problem with police killing citizens in the US. And there really should be a bipartisan effort to solve this, because it is kind of embarassing. It is not as if this is very hard to tangle, either. Have an organisation independent of the police departments that investigates police misconduct. Automatically start an investigation whenever someone dies in an interaction with police. Actually collect data on this stuff.
It is disgusting that there are people in the US who think that this is an acceptable status quo.
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In Germany you don't have to assume that every guy could be armed though.
It wouldn't surprise me if at the times of the RAF police were more trigger happy.
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On May 30 2020 02:31 Vivax wrote:
In Germany you don't have to assume that every guy could be armed though.
It wouldn't surprise me if at the times of the RAF police were more trigger happy.
One would think so, but that doesn't appear to be the case:
(Source in German, Table with Year, Number of people killed by police, shots fired by police)
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waffengebrauch_der_Polizei_in_Deutschland#Zahlen
In the main RAF time around 1977, killings by police are always in the area of 10-20. (Note that there is a smaller population here, because GDR wasn't part of Germany yet, so it IS higher per capita than in the 21st century)
Still, that leaves us at per capita numbers of maybe 2-5 per million, which is still an order of magnitude smaller than the US numbers.
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the degree to which the American population is armed obviously plays a role, because it means the police goes into every situation with the mindset of being killed. In countries with low risk of law enforcement being shot the police doesn't even need deadly weapons, so the whole dynamic is way less risky from the start. In some places the US is literally hoarding Iraq war military equipment.
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I kinda have the feeling, despite the prevelance of guns, expecting that everyone could shoot you at any time, is very bad advice. Normally police kinda know in what kind of situation they get, if they are always trigger happy if a black person is around, something is very, very wrong.
Despite that... They also behave abhorrent when they don't use their guns.
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Police in the US are cowardly bullies imo. If they are so scared they should get a different job where their irrational fears don't get innocent people dead.
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On May 30 2020 02:31 Vivax wrote:
In Germany you don't have to assume that every guy could be armed though.
It wouldn't surprise me if at the times of the RAF police were more trigger happy. I am reminded of an interview or comment by a soldier turned cop.
A soldier on patrol in Iraq has a higher threshold for the use of lethal force then a cop on the streets of the US.
Just think about how fucked up that is.
Not to mention that a lot of police seems to be seriously lacking training to deal with potentially dangerous situations to avoid the need for a 'kill or be killed' situation.
Like a cop a long time ago that responded to a call of a kid waving a gun around in the park, who exists his car on the sidewalk and walks into the open infront of said kid and literally 2 seconds after getting out of the car shoots the kid dead, who turned out to have a toy gun. He, purposefully, puts himself into harms way with no option but to shoot and then goes to claim he feared for his life and had to kill a child.
The situation with police killings in the US is not a result of how dangerous the US is. Its because of the police.
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It's always the terrible police that makes the headlines and makes the officers who are trying to help communities and citizens look bad. But at the same time, it's those same good officers not saying anything that makes everything worse.
On a side note, this thought occurred to me and I wanted to post it here. Just a random thought.
I'm curious as to how much of this is a result of the stay at home/pandemic. Like, if we had our daily distractions a la sports and being able to enjoy summer, would this have happened? How much is just boiled over anxiety wanting to be outside and how much is just a terrible human killing an innocent person.
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On May 30 2020 00:53 NewSunshine wrote:
Imagine genuinely believing the notion that black folks, who have zero guarantee of not being arbitrarily murdered by the police on any given day, should deserve to be called "the worst of society" for it as well.
Just try to imagine the outrage if white people were even improperly detained by police. Black folks get strangled, or they get a knee to the neck. Or they get shot 8 times. Take your pick. What you're seeing is tame.
Earlier this year, a Somali-American police officer from Minneapolis was sentenced to 12.5 years for shooting a white woman. People that don't see the double standard going on don't want to.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/minneapolis-police-officer-sentenced-fatal-shooting-justine-ruszczyk/story?id=63547748
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On May 30 2020 03:22 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2020 02:31 Vivax wrote:
In Germany you don't have to assume that every guy could be armed though.
It wouldn't surprise me if at the times of the RAF police were more trigger happy. I am reminded of an interview or comment by a soldier turned cop. A soldier on patrol in Iraq has a higher threshold for the use of lethal force then a cop on the streets of the US. Just think about how fucked up that is. Not to mention that a lot of police seems to be seriously lacking training to deal with potentially dangerous situations to avoid the need for a 'kill or be killed' situation. Like a cop a long time ago that responded to a call of a kid waving a gun around in the park, who exists his car on the sidewalk and walks into the open infront of said kid and literally 2 seconds after getting out of the car shoots the kid dead, who turned out to have a toy gun. He, purposefully, puts himself into harms way with no option but to shoot and then goes to claim he feared for his life and had to kill a child. The situation with police killings in the US is not a result of how dangerous the US is. Its because of the police.
One thing that often gets lost in all this is it isn't just the cop that kills the person (or 3 in this case) but a partner or several that lie to cover for him, get exposed as lying by video evidence, then go free as well. The unions that fight tooth and nail against the modest reforms people propose and so on. Only good cop is one that gets kicked off the force for holding his brothers accountable imo.
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On May 30 2020 03:22 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
It's always the terrible police that makes the headlines and makes the officers who are trying to help communities and citizens look bad. But at the same time, it's those same good officers not saying anything that makes everything worse.
On a side note, this thought occurred to me and I wanted to post it here. Just a random thought.
I'm curious as to how much of this is a result of the stay at home/pandemic. Like, if we had our daily distractions a la sports and being able to enjoy summer, would this have happened? How much is just boiled over anxiety wanting to be outside and how much is just a terrible human killing an innocent person. Exactly, police, because of the nature of their work tend to be a tight nit bunch that protect each other but the only way the police can have the support of the people is if they take care of the inevitable bad apples.
The fact that they don't is a major problem.
And yes the happier people are the less likely they are to revolt. And the Corona measures are causing people to be less happy. But in this case I think the main catalyst is just the sheer cold blooded brutality of this case. This isn't a situation of possible self defence or miss-reading of a potentially dangerous situation.
This is a drawn out cold blooded murder in public view as a police officer slowly chokes a man to death simply because he can.
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The officer has been charged with 3rd degree murder/manslaughter. Via local news reporter.
Honestly a good choice, if you charge them with the higher crimes they're more likely to get off. Not sure why it's only ONE of the officers though.
(Definition of 3rd degree murder : “killing another person without premeditation and intent, through inherently dangerous acts, and with no regard for human life.” )
More in the thread explains why only 1 and why the charge levels :
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On May 30 2020 03:22 Gorsameth wrote:
The situation with police killings in the US is not a result of how dangerous the US is. Its because of the police.
I think it's very wrong to think of these situations as mono-causal. There can be multiple reasons why the police the way they behave. There is obviously virulent racism within the American police, but also the job of American police officers is significantly more dangerous than in any other developed country, given the high degree of violence in some areas.
In Germany say, in the entire post-war era slightly less than 400 police officers have been killed. In the US that happens every three to four years.
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On May 30 2020 03:25 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2020 00:53 NewSunshine wrote:
Imagine genuinely believing the notion that black folks, who have zero guarantee of not being arbitrarily murdered by the police on any given day, should deserve to be called "the worst of society" for it as well.
Just try to imagine the outrage if white people were even improperly detained by police. Black folks get strangled, or they get a knee to the neck. Or they get shot 8 times. Take your pick. What you're seeing is tame. Earlier this year, a Somali-American police officer from Minneapolis was sentenced to 12.5 years for shooting a white woman. People that don't see the double standard going on don't want to. https://abcnews.go.com/US/minneapolis-police-officer-sentenced-fatal-shooting-justine-ruszczyk/story?id=63547748
Did the Somali American officer get taken into custody immediately? That would be a double standard. Otherwise their is no double standard considering all of this public action took place BEFORE any due process. I bet if Justine had been black and her killer had been white this would have all blown up in 2019.
I don't think any right minded person condones the killing of George Floyd. That being said, the fact this many people have managed to rationalize the rioting is very disappointing.
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On May 30 2020 03:53 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2020 03:22 Gorsameth wrote:
The situation with police killings in the US is not a result of how dangerous the US is. Its because of the police. I think it's very wrong to think of these situations as mono-causal. There can be multiple reasons why the police the way they behave. There is obviously virulent racism within the American police, but also the job of American police officers is significantly more dangerous than in any other developed country, given the high degree of violence in some areas. In Germany say, in the entire post-war era slightly less than 400 police officers have been killed. In the US that happens every three to four years.
Killed how? Because that sounds wildly inaccurate/misleading. Source?
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On May 30 2020 04:07 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2020 03:53 Nyxisto wrote:On May 30 2020 03:22 Gorsameth wrote:
The situation with police killings in the US is not a result of how dangerous the US is. Its because of the police. I think it's very wrong to think of these situations as mono-causal. There can be multiple reasons why the police the way they behave. There is obviously virulent racism within the American police, but also the job of American police officers is significantly more dangerous than in any other developed country, given the high degree of violence in some areas. In Germany say, in the entire post-war era slightly less than 400 police officers have been killed. In the US that happens every three to four years. Killed how? Because that sounds wildly inaccurate/misleading. Source?
I don't think that number sounds very strange, but i would still like a source, because i was just looking for one and couldn't easily find one.
I think we are talking about police officers being killed intentionally while on duty. Obviously more than 400 people who were police officers since after the second world war have died since, since 1950 is 70 years ago.
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On May 30 2020 04:07 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2020 03:53 Nyxisto wrote:On May 30 2020 03:22 Gorsameth wrote:
The situation with police killings in the US is not a result of how dangerous the US is. Its because of the police. I think it's very wrong to think of these situations as mono-causal. There can be multiple reasons why the police the way they behave. There is obviously virulent racism within the American police, but also the job of American police officers is significantly more dangerous than in any other developed country, given the high degree of violence in some areas. In Germany say, in the entire post-war era slightly less than 400 police officers have been killed. In the US that happens every three to four years. Killed how? Because that sounds wildly inaccurate/misleading. Source?
Killed in the line of duty. Here's a source for the US.
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On May 30 2020 03:56 puppykiller wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2020 03:25 Gahlo wrote:On May 30 2020 00:53 NewSunshine wrote:
Imagine genuinely believing the notion that black folks, who have zero guarantee of not being arbitrarily murdered by the police on any given day, should deserve to be called "the worst of society" for it as well.
Just try to imagine the outrage if white people were even improperly detained by police. Black folks get strangled, or they get a knee to the neck. Or they get shot 8 times. Take your pick. What you're seeing is tame. Earlier this year, a Somali-American police officer from Minneapolis was sentenced to 12.5 years for shooting a white woman. People that don't see the double standard going on don't want to. https://abcnews.go.com/US/minneapolis-police-officer-sentenced-fatal-shooting-justine-ruszczyk/story?id=63547748 Did the Somali American officer get taken into custody immediately? That would be a double standard. Otherwise their is no double standard considering all of this public action took place BEFORE any due process. I bet if Justine had been black and her killer had been white this would have all blown up in 2019. I don't think any right minded person condones the killing of George Floyd. That being said, the fact this many people have managed to rationalize the rioting is very disappointing.
Because his defense of "I was scared" after shooting somebody is what gets so many white cops who shoot unarmed black people off the hook entirely.
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