EPThttps://www.weeklystandard.com/jack-goldsmith/rod-rosenstein-and-christopher-wray-walk-fine-line-with-trump-and-fbi-investigation
US Politics Mega-thread - Page 227
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A3th3r
United States319 Posts
https://www.weeklystandard.com/jack-goldsmith/rod-rosenstein-and-christopher-wray-walk-fine-line-with-trump-and-fbi-investigation | ||
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TheTenthDoc
United States9561 Posts
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KwarK
United States42421 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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a_flayer
Netherlands2826 Posts
But who knows, maybe Mueller will in fact uncover something substantial. Haven't seen it so far in the media, though. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On May 26 2018 06:04 a_flayer wrote: The Stormy thing has more traction when it comes to impeaching Trump than any Russia stuff. And even that's just going to end up making a few people rich and popular for a while. Financial matters indirectly related to Russian collusion such as money laundering or whatever... I dunno, somehow I think nothing will happen, because if the President is going to be impeached over some financial matters, there's probably going to be a lot of nervous Senators and Representatives. Too many for anything substantial to happen. But who knows, maybe Mueller will in fact uncover something substantial. Haven't seen it so far in the media, though. There have been criminal charges filed against several of the people in the Trump campaign, including Manfort, Flynn and Gates. And the investigation was not into Trump, but into the people surrounding his campaign and their actions. That is substantial. | ||
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On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
On May 26 2018 05:51 KwarK wrote: The Russians absolutely colluded. The issue is whether half the country actually care. Numerous individuals within the Trump campaign, almost certainly including the man himself, knowingly accepted Russian government aid and intervention in the election. The question is what the Republicans are willing to do about it, not whether it happened. We have openly seen quid and quo, yet people still find it hard to believe there could be a pro. | ||
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a_flayer
Netherlands2826 Posts
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On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
On May 26 2018 06:46 a_flayer wrote: What's an incompetent self-enriching lawyer got to do with Trump-Russia collusion? 1. The issue is collusion with the campaign and those around him, not necessarily Trump himself. 2. This is another example of backroom quid pro quo shennanigans between Trumps people and Russians. 3. The prosecutorial black hole theory is in full swing. 4. Possibly more shit to force Cohen to flip on Trump regarding bigger issues, which matters. | ||
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KwarK
United States42421 Posts
On May 26 2018 06:46 a_flayer wrote: What's an incompetent self-enriching lawyer got to do with Trump-Russia collusion? The lawyer was Trump's lawyer. The enriching was done by a Russian oligarch. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23061 Posts
On May 26 2018 06:23 Plansix wrote: There have been criminal charges filed against several of the people in the Trump campaign, including Manfort, Flynn and Gates. And the investigation was not into Trump, but into the people surrounding his campaign and their actions. That is substantial. Is Manafort the only one who hasn't rolled yet and the only one looking to actually serve any time? Right now it doesn't look like anyone is going to get in any more trouble than someone stealing from Walmart. I actually tuned into some Mueller-Russia coverage recently and it seems rather obvious that the legal case against Trump is over and Trump's already wiping the floor with Democrats over the political side. Seems to be turning out how I predicted when this all started. Mueller could find a check from Trump to Putin with "winning me the election" in the memo line and still not bring charges though at this point. Republicans absolutely won't impeach him, and Democrats aren't going to win enough seats (or have the guts) to do it either. Not that they would want to anyway, they went out of their way to try to help him win the primary in 2016 because they still think he's their easiest opponent. So what you have is a 2018 where Democrats underperform their 'blue wave' expectations, then a 2020 run up with Democrats stridently opposing their best shot to win and instead trying to shove (most likely) Kamala the cop Harris down the left's throat and blame us if/when they lose to Trump again. Imagining for a moment that Trump does miraculously get caught up and removed at the perfect time giving Democrats essentially an ez win for President, who would the party pick if they had a "be president for free" card? Even without a Republican opponent Democrats would push for a 'centrist' candidate because they don't oppose the left to deal with Republicans, they oppose the left because ideologically they oppose what the left supports. I don't disagree that significant malfeasance has been uncovered, but I don't see any sign that the significance of the consequences will be on parity with the significance of the malfeasance. Trump has set a new bar for how corrupt and criminal a president can be and still not face any real consequences. Which seems to include even the worst allegations against him. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On May 26 2018 07:06 KwarK wrote: The lawyer was Trump's lawyer. The enriching was done by a Russian oligarch. Also the lawyer violated campaign finance law on behalf of the president. Likely at the request of the president. On May 26 2018 07:08 GreenHorizons wrote: Is Manafort the only one who hasn't rolled yet and the only one looking to actually serve any time? Yes. All the other people rolled. I think there will be some amount of jail time for some of them. I don't think we will know for sure until the investigation completes. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23061 Posts
On May 26 2018 07:10 Plansix wrote: Also the lawyer violated campaign finance law on behalf of the president. Likely at the request of the president. Yes. All the other people rolled. I think there will be some amount of jail time for some of them. I don't think we will know for sure until the investigation completes. There's been one sentence so far for 30 days (unclear whether he will serve any of it), I'd be shocked to see someone get and serve more than a year. Even the smallest of this stuff should be several years so there's really no doubt in my mind whatever sentences may come will be purely decorative. | ||
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a_flayer
Netherlands2826 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On May 26 2018 07:55 a_flayer wrote: And it has absolutely zero impact on governance. Which is what the problem is. Nor will it even result in impeachment of the symptom/face of the problem. But people keep yapping on about it. What are you trying to argue here? | ||
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a_flayer
Netherlands2826 Posts
We're talking global oligarchy here. There's nothing special about any of this. It's one big media sensationalist joke. It's got nothing to do with treason or foreign agents or collusion. | ||
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KwarK
United States42421 Posts
On May 26 2018 08:33 a_flayer wrote: This is just like a standard investigation into the personal dealings of campaign financing at this point. I saw an article the other day about how "the Trump campaign had 80 different contacts with Russians". I honestly wonder what the standard is for any US presidential campaign. Because it sounds like 80 would be about average. Maybe it's a little on the higher end cause a lot of these dudes have a hard-on for Russian exploitative culture. We're talking global oligarchy here. There's nothing special about any of this. It's one big media sensationalist joke. It's got nothing to do with treason or foreign agents or collusion. If only there was another candidate who ran a campaign in 2016 who Trump could be compared to to judge whether or not his level of collusion with the Russian government is the same as that of any other candidate. Wait, I checked, and there actually was. It turns out that it's not normal to accept help from foreign governments. | ||
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
On May 26 2018 08:33 a_flayer wrote: This is just like a standard investigation into the personal dealings of campaign financing at this point. I saw an article the other day about how "the Trump campaign had 80 different contacts with Russians". I honestly wonder what the standard is for any US presidential campaign. Because it sounds like 80 would be about average. Maybe it's a little on the higher end cause a lot of these dudes have a hard-on for Russian exploitative culture. We're talking global oligarchy here. There's nothing special about any of this. It's one big media sensationalist joke. It's got nothing to do with treason or foreign agents or collusion. Rick Gates plead guilty to 2 counts of Conspiracy against the US. Paul Manafort is being charged with 5 counts of the same. On May 26 2018 07:24 GreenHorizons wrote: There's been one sentence so far for 30 days (unclear whether he will serve any of it), I'd be shocked to see someone get and serve more than a year. Even the smallest of this stuff should be several years so there's really no doubt in my mind whatever sentences may come will be purely decorative. Those 30 days are for 1 count of false statements. I kind of doubt you really think "lying to police" should be a mandatory several year jail sentence. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23061 Posts
On May 26 2018 08:36 KwarK wrote: If only there was another candidate who ran a campaign in 2016 who Trump could be compared to to judge whether or not his level of collusion with the Russian government is the same as that of any other candidate. Wait, I checked, and there actually was. It turns out that it's not normal to accept help from foreign governments. Don't be disingenuous, it's not "foreign governments" that's really the issue either. It's "Russia" specifically. Israel and the US have had publicly unhealthy relationships with each others elections for at least a decade. On May 26 2018 08:43 WolfintheSheep wrote: Rick Gates plead guilty to 2 counts of Conspiracy against the US. Paul Manafort is being charged with 5 counts of the same. Those 30 days are for 1 count of false statements. I kind of doubt you really think "lying to police" should be a mandatory several year jail sentence. Well I don't believe in 'mandatory sentences' , but with that in mind, yeah I actually do. He lied to and withheld evidence from the feds and he's a lawyer. So yeah, he should have been sentenced to several years (maybe serve 1). $20,000 is more than many people make in a whole year, if a year's salary is a fair fine than a year in prison is too. Now, considering the prison industrial complex has no measurable positive impact on crime it's not really what I would advocate, but it being the system we have, it's what I would consider a relatively fair sentence. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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