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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 5514

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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting!

NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.

Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.


If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18219 Posts
Last Edited: 2026-02-22 09:30:10
2 hours ago
#110261
On February 22 2026 15:20 RvB wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 21 2026 18:20 KwarK wrote:
On February 21 2026 17:53 RvB wrote:
On February 21 2026 04:11 Falling wrote:
that is why the Warren Buffett item is in a separate paragraph.

You might want a transition sentence then because the way that reads is paragraph one is your claim, paragraph two is the support to your claim. But, sure.

make your case.

More or less just did. If the current US tax regime is as Warren Buffet lays out, I would support his proposed changes for the reasons he lays out. I would reject getting rid of income tax in favour of a super sales tax as I doubt it would raise sufficient revenue, and if it's a high flat sales tax, it would be a regressive tax. (A greater portion of a low income goes to basic cost of living purchases that a sales tax would hit. Whereas a progressive income tax can ease the tax burden on the first $50,000 you make with an adjustable basic personal amount to carve out more space for people barely making ends meet.) A balance of progressive income tax combined with sales tax, property tax etc allows revenue raised without putting undue burden on those at the bottom end.

A VAT is not regressive. It's a proportional tax. Savings are future consumption. If you look at only disposable income then that's not taken into account.

That’s not correct. If worker A has 20% of his income go in tax and trust fund billionaire B has 1% of his income go in tax while the rest compounds to infinity then you’re not going to convince us that actually B pays more tax because imagine how much tax he’ll eventually pay when he’s infinitely rich.

It's correct. If wealth would just compound into infinity we'd see Yoshiaki Tsutsumi topping the lists of richest persons in the world.

That report's summary literally starts with "measuring VAT burdens relative to expenditure – thereby removing the influence of savings – is likely to provide a more meaningful picture of the distributional impact of the VAT", in other words, changing the denominator to disregard savings to make it more "meaningful". That is quite the statement. Their justification for doing that is supposedly found in this report: https://taxation-customs.ec.europa.eu/system/files/2016-09/report_evaluation_vat.pdf

I can't find anything remotely like it in the summary, but am not going to read 600+ pages to track down where that might say something vaguely like that. I suspect, though, that this report may very well have argued that their analysis is best performed when ignoring savings, because I did find some tangentially related points about how VAT doesn't change the incentive to save, probably put clearest here:
Note too that, unlike systems which tax labour earnings but simply exempt investment
income (or tax it at a reduced rate), VAT does not provide scope for avoiding tax by
converting labour income into capital income – the source of major practical difficulties
in direct tax systems across Europe and the world. This is because income from
whatever source is taxed equally when it is spent. Thus people who earn exceptional
returns to their savings (whether through luck, skill or devices to convert labour income
into capital income) do pay more tax on those returns. Disincentives to save are instead
avoided by declining to levy tax up-front on earnings that are saved rather than spent,
targeting those whose decision whether to save or spend is marginal (and so whose
incentives matter) rather than those whose prospect of earning exceptional returns
means that they would save in any case.12


But this has nothing to do with measuring whether a tax is progressive or regressive. They aren't really very interested in that in the first place, as far as I can see.

Anyway, if we ignore savings then VAT might not be regressive. But for someone who lives paycheck to paycheck that ignores 0% of their wealth, and for Musk that ignores 99.9999999% of their wealth (and I'm probably missing a few 9s there). Clearly "disregarding savings" is doing a lot of heavy lifting in that report.
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